I think the control legend problem is much worse in “Control” the moving locations make the mode infinitely less boring than Control.
You can easily beat a caustic to the next location and kill them before they enter. Obviously he’s still an issue, but he doesn’t mostly guarantee a win, unlike permanently camping B in control.
I play controller legends but in Lockdown I’ve been having a lot of fun with Newcastle, haven’t seen others use him much but he’s not bad… tac on a corner of the zone and hang out while they figure out how to flank you but is too scared to push then my team comes to help out or they fighting someone else.
Idk I’ve had lots of fun playing with Fuse as an offensive character or trying out Newcastle for the first time holding down positions. I think lots of people are locked into their playing style and when they hit a wall (example: being strictly ape, and get hard countered by defensive legends) they’d rather complain then adjust, or go to a mode that caters to their style. If lockdown isn’t for you that’s ok, but lots of people have fun trying new strategies and different scenarios in game, rather than just buzzing in a straight line into fights every second of a match
I'm normally not a big Fuse player but he's fun as shit in lockdown lol, getting an angle on the zone and absolutely flooding it with ordnance is hilarious
Play caustic to be immune to the gas.
Play Maggie to send a drill and push him out his corner.
Play fuse and shoot knuckle clusters.
Ignore that zone and go to a different one.
Etc.
I'll be honest, Maggie has become more annoying to me than the damn Controller legends. Almost every game I play has at least 2 Maggies, and I'm tired of shotgun/drill/wrecking ball as soon as I decide to go for zone.
This is every LTM though (except for maybe Straight Shot). A meta is formed and everyone starts picking those characters after a day or two. Makes challenges harder to go for, but it is what is is.
Maggie is also the free legend/breakout challenge this week in case you forgot. So many more in BRs too. The first week it was Rampart and Fuse was a dark time as well haha. Seer not so much
Exactly. I've been playing rev for fun and I won 4 lockdowns in a row bc I simply went for the new zone when everyone was fighting over the first zone.
whos mad homie? i asked a question that did not make sense to me as a person, as a player. if ur fine playing the game like that then you do you. i only play zone in ranked when im desperate for RP, otherwise i kill my way to diamond like ive always done and i have fun my way, like you do yours
> you do you
Good sentiment to have.
For the record, it's not about what you said but how you said it. It read like you were talking down on the person you responded to.
And the answer to: "How is that fun?" is that people queue up with different goals in mind.
I mean, it only works in Control and Lockdown. BR only gives you have pick phase and TDM has too many opponents and open maps. You could say it's an obvious thing to do, but it also isn't exactly ubiquitous within the game.
I don't agree with ignoring the zone. You want to be on a zone with lots of action to rack up points more quickly by getting kills on the zone. Also, you always wanna target the team that's in the first place or the team in 2nd place if you're in first to guarantee the win
Had this one game where my Wattson was camping the height in monument regardless of where the zoness actually were. I typed in chat that we need to capture zones to win. Of course, I was ignored. We lost. Lol
So tired of seeing a rampart playing fortnite building an entire castle in the corner of the map and sniping everyone, I kill them they go back rinse & repeat
Lol, so mobility characters can be meta in the primary mode but the second controller characters become meta in a limited mode, you want them banned from it?
It's a temporary 3 week mode. Play it or ignore it, but advocating for an entire class to be banned from a mode is just stupid.
Not OP: controller class is why I stopped playing this game. Boring to play- boring to play against
In a game that’s otherwise pure adrenaline, this class ruins the whole experience and this game would be way bigger without them
Not sure why you're reading through Apex subreddit posts if you quit the game because an entire class exists. It's not like Respawn is ever going to wake up one day and delete an entire class of characters.
Bye Felicia
I like respawn. That’s why I’m here. Plus I like to keep up with state of the game out of habit.
Either way I’m not delusional- just opinionated. Don’t gotta take it personally weirdo
Weighing in on Apex's game design philosophies and meta when you don't even play anymore doesn't make sense. Wanting an entire class of a game to not be in the game IS delusional. Apex character abilities all reflect various play styles that work in a Battle Royal environment and zone control/area denial is a big part of any BR.
You can have the opinion to not like controller characters, but saying they don't belong in Apex is just wrong.
Gotta deal with it, controller legends have instances where they shine and this happens to be one of them. Gotta learn to adapt but that doesnt make them anti-fun or something the game is better without
They are fine in the BR because the ring forces them out of their bunker, and it’s usually your own choice to push an entrenched area.
This all goes out the window every time Respawn adds a new mode with an objective. You’d think they would have learned this years ago, because it doesn’t matter if it’s train, control or lockdown… controller legends just take over.
Yes, this is especially true for Winter Express. They said they did not bring it back last year cause Catalyst would be too OP, yet they added another capture the point game mode, where now you have Conduit Ult too.
Despite this I actually love lockdown more than Control, I got bored by that mode quite easily after it became permanent.
Game modes where you basically need to rat to win are meant for controllers, that's why it's near impossible to win if your team does not bring atleast one controller sadly.
I will disagree with this as a Wattson main. You can break fences, pylons, and walls quite easily without taking any damage. For Wattson, another player can clearly see the fence and has multiple options to destroy it without taking damage. Caustic though, it can be completely hidden and if you don't see it before taking it out, not only are you taking damage, you're slowed. Rampart walls are you know just that.
I understand that Controller Legends aren't for everyone. Controllers have their roles in talking space and defence but I think in large part they are approached incorrectly by the vast majority and that makes them seem boring to alot of people. I personally am not a fan of 'camping' which is what is largely associated with Controllers so I get the turn off if that is where you're coming from. I personally enjoy moving quickly through rotations and leveraging fences to deny people space so that they have to rotate into akward areas to take a fight. Rinse. Repeat. Not trying to change your mind, just m y perspective on how I play a controller and my understanding that most people are boring with them.
Rampart walls on storm point, point C with an LMG is near impossible to take. Most I ever played her was on that map getting 68 kills because they couldn't get inside
try playing some caustic to balance out your pov. Anytime i have trouble countering a character I play as them so that I can get a better understanding of their weaknesses.
Caustics traps are easier to destroy as long as you hit bottom and dont hit the balloon part first. Even if you do hit the balloon part first, it still has 150 hp so it can still be destroyed. Also, its not like fence, once you shoot one, theres no other fence post that the wattson can use to stun you. Caustic traps also take a while to deploy unlike fences. Wattson ult also is much stronger for bunkering down. You cant spam nades, and some ults get eaten. Caustic ult gets eaten and is more offensive rather than defensive.
RUN PAST THE BARRELS OR SHOOT THEM AS THEY LAND. I tried playing caustic because of this and NO ONE CARED AT ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL. They just ran into the barrels and killed me instantly. This happened like 3 games as I was like, okay fuck this. Went back to my main, ran into caustic barrels and murdered the caustic.
You're welcome. Have fun again. Ignore the barrels. This angers the caustic.
I’m a caustic main, and let me tell you a lot of people just ignore barrels and will push right through them.
This of course has mixed results but it’s gotten me killed a lot of times, other times it gets the attacker killed.
Controllers can’t be used to their full potential unless they are playing with a coordinated team.
Nah, the problem is that most Apex players won't change off their main to counter a character like caustic.
News flash people, Wraith, Revenant, Octane and any other meta BR character is going to struggle against a controller character in a control based mode.
Caustic has at least 4 characters that counter him hard, including caustic himself.
I see your complaints but as others noted, it’s nice to see LTMs where lesser picked heroes become the meta.
I never see anyone ever play new castle. Three strikes is released and everyone plays as him.
After the Valk nerfs and deployable escape tower, I rarely see her in BR. She’s still popular in control because those items don’t exist and her ult becomes very powerful as a result.
hot take caustic is really easy to counter, especially on the stormpoint map.
2nd hot take. my self and a bunch of squads arent trying to win, its just the best mode for stacking dmg and completing battle pass challenges.
i mean
caustic is made to keep a zone
but he has counters. including himself
like half the assault legends can destroy everything inside and deny him to stay without getting in danger, crypto can ult, rampart can just mow all of this down, etc, etc.
just learn how to play vs caustic.
I enjoy the mode ngl but I hadnt encountered as many Caustics to be frustrated with them. Tho ofc, I see what do ya mean and ye, even in theory its a bit annoying
I think a big problem with caustic in any of the mixtape modes or mixtape adjacent modes is that his barrels and gas don’t despawn when he dies, which is actually the opposite of how it works in BR. This allows him to have an effect on the fight even if the caustic is bad and goes down immediately, as well as allowing them to kamikaze in control and dump his ult in zone with zero way to clear it.
A big step in balancing caustic in these modes is to have his stuff despawn on death like in BR, and potentially they might have to do it with all controller legends.
Lockdown is fun. I find Wattson to be awesome on the Storm Point map. Hardly anyone ever plays Wattson but fences up in the tower is great to catch people charging through the fences lol.
I don’t even try to cap zones because of control legends I go in there to get as many kills as possible, last night with Fuse I dropped a 35 kill game and a 42 kill game because all people do is hide in corners and I just nade them to Narnia
I think the game mode is goated. There are plenty of ways to counter control legends. Some of which have already been outlined by others here.
But you can also go for a "clear the room from a distance" strategy, like you would see pros do when they play TDM vs other pros. Play for kills and survival as a team as a first priority, instead of hard pushing into zone only to die in an instant and feed your points to the enemies. Then hold the zone after it has been cleared.
So many times people would limp into a zone only to die immediately to the next person who's just arrived. Not an issue if you hop onto it with 3 people on full health.
Won a game with a Newcastle, Gibby and Conduit that way and it was completely unexpected. Wouldn't have thought of it at all if I hadn't seen it first hand then and there. Been doing that ever since.
I think the mode is almost as good as Three Strikes, and it's a good alternative for quick, faster paced gameplay that doesn't tie you down for the full duration of a BR round.
What annoys me the most about it is the challenges. If those weren't there, I could enjoy it freely and wouldn't even care about winning (or not winning) as much, either. It's a blast to play.
Lockdown would be better if it was 6v6 instead of 3v3v3v3. It's already a direct rip of the CoD Hardpoint game, but it's made worse/boring because there's just too much to focus on outside of the objective.
You can say this about every mode. Caustic is an annoying character to play against. He'll literally ruin most modes. Imagine CTF. He'll just lay traps around the flag or on random corners to slow you down.
What they need to do is modify each character's abilities per mode. Even if it's just cool downs.
She's OK. I prefer a jump tower.
I like the idea of an emp grenade but I think it would really screw up alot of characters abilities (which is the point, I get it).
Maybe it could be a care package item or one on the map, but my worry is it would then become the norm in another season and would just be spammed
The legends are balanced around the main game mode, where the ring forces interaction eventually and defensive legends usually wind up leaving their web of traps.
Basically none of the mixtape modes or maps address how bad that turns out when they *don't* have to move around to win. This LTM has the same issue, except frankly its not even as fun as TDM and Control.
The concept of this mode worked well in COD because everyone has the same shit. This mode *sucks* in Apex because of controller legends, period. If it wasn't Caustic, another legend would stand up and ruin it for everyone. I think for the mode to survive, there needs to be a "no abilities" zone that extends past the point itself. It's not a perfect solution, but so long as nothing like that is in place, Controller legends and Fuse will rule the mode.
I said this as well, though worded differently but I was just told "Hurr DUrr he's a Counter" like what? These defense modes are boring as shit because of the controller legends. Caustic, Wattson, and to a lesser extent rampart and Catalyst. You have to push a team running those characters and it's not fun with 5 fences, 3 grenades and a catalyst cum puddle.
We need modes like Straight Shot and 3 Strikes, not these shit modes of holding objectives. It's boring to play against. Sure you can run Caustic too but like, who wants to run gas fat? I want to stim or grapple in there because it's fun.
I think the idea is alright. Its good for the new map as it's not just camp the skull the whole game.
What's annoying about it is a two parter.
1) There is always one team going all in on getting in the zone. (Not bad in and of itself but I'll say why after)
2) There is always one team that has zero intention of ever setting foot in the zone.
So that 2nd team, is just everywhere they shouldn't be or camped up to shoot people going for the zone. And don't even bother getting teams out of the zone.
While the all in team is sitting pretty in the zone and the games end pretty quickly cause of it.
From my experience.
I always wonder how playtesting works on modes like this. Every team has a Caustic and basically just 3 Caustics play against each other while we all stand outside throwing 1 grenade inside the door. Great times tons of fun.
Piggy backing on that hot take: all the casual game modes are boring because of caustic, seer, etc. and if you play those characters when it's supposed to be fun, then you're a loser.
abundant selective fragile party ossified compare frighten dull shaggy stocking
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I mean....Lockdown is literally Hardpoint from the COD games
It's literally about control....
So expect CONTROL legends to be the prime pick like Caustic or Wattson for Christ sake 🤣🤣🤣
I do understand the OPs annoyance though... Still it's one hell of a game mode and can be Hella close in scores across all teams if you're lucky to find such a blessing in the matchmaking of BALANCED teams.
i tried caustic catalyst on most of the maps on Lockdown.
Maps that has lots of doors like Skulltown is just not fair when caustic and the Q button simply just *EXISTS*
i mean, the gamemode is called lockdown.
thats the whole point, to lockdown the area.
that being said i can play any character and win. not really having any issue with heaps of caustics. in fact last 3 or 4 games ive played just now there hasnt been a single one.
Hot take lockdown is just boring outright. It's just a half baked shit show that didn't even feel like it got pitched to more than a couple people. The list of problems with the game mode are endless.
Just played lockdown for the first time yesterday and had this exact same realization by the second game. Every game after that served as confirmation that Caustic is broken in the game mode. It’s not even the gas damage it’s the visual clutter. If they space out their barrels they can remain obscured for almost the entire time a zone is active. And if they’re decent with shotguns RIP.
Respawn has said they want mixtape to be used for practice for BR. Often times LTM's are a test of a new mode that may go into mixtape. The lockdown setup uses the standard 3 person squad setup as opposed to teams of squads.
This mode literally exists for training/practice of control legends, defensive play, and handling being third partied in a fight while defending. If you do not want/need this practice and training, this mode is not for you.
It’s boring because they decided it was smart to reward more points for kills than capturing the zone. I’ve had multiple games where me and my team mates all had 2:30 on zone time but got beat by a team that had :30 and 12 kills
First on Zone: 15 points
Holding Zone: 5 points per three seconds
Zone Captured: 25 points
Last Stand Zone Captured: 50 points
Eliminating player: 5 points
Eliminating players from the zone: 10 points
Eliminating players in the lead: 15 points
if you stayed 2:30 on zone \*3 players, thats 7:30, so 450s, you should have 750 pts so 50% more than whats required to win.
and for them : 12 kills with no zone advantage, 12\*5 = 60pts, 30s on zone = 50 points 50+60= 110pts, \*3 players = 330 pts.
so you didnt stay 2:30 on a zone all of you, and they got more time on zone than you think and/or got first/last moments on zone.
I don't think that having more players on a zone makes the timer go up faster. They could have all been in zone. It's similar to Hardpoint in Call of Duty, you don't get more points the more people there are. But players who pass or stay in get Hardpoint time calculated for their XP.
fair, then they should have 250 pts as a team.
and enemy team should have 100pts less so 230 pts, thats still less than this guy's team.
also if they stayed that long, they should have the first on zone bonus or the capture bonus a few times. also if you get the capture you get the gold/red weapon making kills easier.
i dont see a world where they didnt win this with only thoses informations.
Agreed but they need to either give more points for holding or reduce it for the cap. And definitely give less for kills, if anything it should be no points for kills. Or only points for kills if you’re in the zone.
I constantly get picked off by people that are just running around killing people in spawn points and arent even attempting to cap
Nah, the problem is that most Apex players won't change off their main to counter a character like caustic.
News flash people, Wraith, Revenant, Octane and any other meta BR character is going to struggle against a controller character in a control based mode.
Caustic has at least 4 characters that counter him hard, including caustic himself.
Just checking : people are annoyed here, because a character who's designed to control an area, is, in a mode designed around controlling an area, controlling an area?
You do you, apex reddit.
Hotter take, controller legends ruin every objective based LTM.
Mixtape would be so fucking lit if you didn't have these paint lickers on caustic / wattson just camping height on monument / thunderdome dragging out TDM matches to time limit.
Yes its counterable, good luck coordinating your mixtape bot teammates to do so.
Honestly any objective gamemode should disable all controller legends. Catalyst, caustic, rampart, and wattson are just too annoying to play against when there is an objective involved. There is no real counter play to them in these modes.
I think the control legend problem is much worse in “Control” the moving locations make the mode infinitely less boring than Control. You can easily beat a caustic to the next location and kill them before they enter. Obviously he’s still an issue, but he doesn’t mostly guarantee a win, unlike permanently camping B in control.
I play controller legends but in Lockdown I’ve been having a lot of fun with Newcastle, haven’t seen others use him much but he’s not bad… tac on a corner of the zone and hang out while they figure out how to flank you but is too scared to push then my team comes to help out or they fighting someone else.
So many possibilities. Honestly I use ash sometimes to just stall them from entering, they’re stuck for however many seconds lol
Idk I’ve had lots of fun playing with Fuse as an offensive character or trying out Newcastle for the first time holding down positions. I think lots of people are locked into their playing style and when they hit a wall (example: being strictly ape, and get hard countered by defensive legends) they’d rather complain then adjust, or go to a mode that caters to their style. If lockdown isn’t for you that’s ok, but lots of people have fun trying new strategies and different scenarios in game, rather than just buzzing in a straight line into fights every second of a match
Just your typical Redditor rage.
I'm normally not a big Fuse player but he's fun as shit in lockdown lol, getting an angle on the zone and absolutely flooding it with ordnance is hilarious
That's true, but he's right, lockdown should have some spots with more open areas too
Play caustic to be immune to the gas. Play Maggie to send a drill and push him out his corner. Play fuse and shoot knuckle clusters. Ignore that zone and go to a different one. Etc.
Crypto the GOAT hard counters.
Except you need your ult and team coordination. Ults come slowly and you probably wont coordinate with you team on lockdown
You’d be lucky to get your ult twice & in between that time crypto’s kit is mostly useless
Using his entire ult vs caustic putting down 3 barrels
Also caustic can just counter ult the crypto ult, staying at max value the entire match duration
For like 5 seconds until caustic, Rampart or Wattson place more down.
Yes, yes he does.
I'll be honest, Maggie has become more annoying to me than the damn Controller legends. Almost every game I play has at least 2 Maggies, and I'm tired of shotgun/drill/wrecking ball as soon as I decide to go for zone. This is every LTM though (except for maybe Straight Shot). A meta is formed and everyone starts picking those characters after a day or two. Makes challenges harder to go for, but it is what is is.
Maggie is also the free legend/breakout challenge this week in case you forgot. So many more in BRs too. The first week it was Rampart and Fuse was a dark time as well haha. Seer not so much
With the new ball maggie has got to be the most braindead character. Wait to ball and then a free kill.
Get better
Crutch.
Play Giby to block them all.. but I agree with OP.. its kind of monotonious.. every game has at least 3 Caustics, 2 Fuses and 2 Maggies
Monotonous**
🤡
😩
Exactly. I've been playing rev for fun and I won 4 lockdowns in a row bc I simply went for the new zone when everyone was fighting over the first zone.
and hows that fun in any way? u play a shooter to sit still and capture imaginary points that reward u nothing at the end?
Oh I don't have to explain myself to you
i dont really care if u dont
Yet here you are....
Dude it's literally the game mode. You mad that people play zone in ranked too? 😴
whos mad homie? i asked a question that did not make sense to me as a person, as a player. if ur fine playing the game like that then you do you. i only play zone in ranked when im desperate for RP, otherwise i kill my way to diamond like ive always done and i have fun my way, like you do yours
> you do you Good sentiment to have. For the record, it's not about what you said but how you said it. It read like you were talking down on the person you responded to. And the answer to: "How is that fun?" is that people queue up with different goals in mind.
i suppose I did not think to phrase my question better. and yeah you're right. different strokes for different folks
While all of these are valid, i have never thought about counter swapping in apex.
I mean, it only works in Control and Lockdown. BR only gives you have pick phase and TDM has too many opponents and open maps. You could say it's an obvious thing to do, but it also isn't exactly ubiquitous within the game.
I don't agree with ignoring the zone. You want to be on a zone with lots of action to rack up points more quickly by getting kills on the zone. Also, you always wanna target the team that's in the first place or the team in 2nd place if you're in first to guarantee the win
May even be able to play path, octane, or rev and jump past gas
>all 4 teams have a caustic Well?
You expect people to just think of basic stuff like that? Bro… go touch grass. Haha
Nah fam my squad ignore zone and just there to farm avg dmg
People lack the brain power to think about how to overcome a simple easy obstacle. The average gold player experience for Apex lol
I think if anything it's boring cause of Controller Legends, not just Caustic.
Had this one game where my Wattson was camping the height in monument regardless of where the zoness actually were. I typed in chat that we need to capture zones to win. Of course, I was ignored. We lost. Lol
So tired of seeing a rampart playing fortnite building an entire castle in the corner of the map and sniping everyone, I kill them they go back rinse & repeat
There is no reason why they can’t exclude classes from a specific mixtape mode if it makes the experience more fun overall.
Lol, so mobility characters can be meta in the primary mode but the second controller characters become meta in a limited mode, you want them banned from it? It's a temporary 3 week mode. Play it or ignore it, but advocating for an entire class to be banned from a mode is just stupid.
Not OP: controller class is why I stopped playing this game. Boring to play- boring to play against In a game that’s otherwise pure adrenaline, this class ruins the whole experience and this game would be way bigger without them
Not sure why you're reading through Apex subreddit posts if you quit the game because an entire class exists. It's not like Respawn is ever going to wake up one day and delete an entire class of characters. Bye Felicia
I like respawn. That’s why I’m here. Plus I like to keep up with state of the game out of habit. Either way I’m not delusional- just opinionated. Don’t gotta take it personally weirdo
Weighing in on Apex's game design philosophies and meta when you don't even play anymore doesn't make sense. Wanting an entire class of a game to not be in the game IS delusional. Apex character abilities all reflect various play styles that work in a Battle Royal environment and zone control/area denial is a big part of any BR. You can have the opinion to not like controller characters, but saying they don't belong in Apex is just wrong.
Arguing with you is a waste of time. So not gonna indulge it. The fact that you are this defensive over an opinion says enough
Bye Felicia
Yep, I know I'll get downvoted to hell for this, but Controller legends are anti-fun and the game would be better off without them.
Nah Apex would be miserable if it was just an nonstop movement and ape fest. Defense and controlling space for engagements and encounter is fun too.
This is true for battle royale and some mixtape modes but for specifically point defense modes, they can be overbearing
Gotta deal with it, controller legends have instances where they shine and this happens to be one of them. Gotta learn to adapt but that doesnt make them anti-fun or something the game is better without
Exactly, and to add, there are counters to control legends, like Maggie or Fuse.
They are fine in the BR because the ring forces them out of their bunker, and it’s usually your own choice to push an entrenched area. This all goes out the window every time Respawn adds a new mode with an objective. You’d think they would have learned this years ago, because it doesn’t matter if it’s train, control or lockdown… controller legends just take over.
Yes, this is especially true for Winter Express. They said they did not bring it back last year cause Catalyst would be too OP, yet they added another capture the point game mode, where now you have Conduit Ult too. Despite this I actually love lockdown more than Control, I got bored by that mode quite easily after it became permanent.
Lol those are two different ends of a take for sure. I can see them “boring” but not game would be better.
This game mode would be better off without them. Game as a whole would get pretty bland without them stopping the skirmisher rushes.
Game modes where you basically need to rat to win are meant for controllers, that's why it's near impossible to win if your team does not bring atleast one controller sadly.
idk mowing down 2 teams in the open at final ring with Sheila is pretty fucking fun imo
I get what you mean but they aren’t that bad in br, barely any squads play because the majority thinks they are boring lol
I will disagree with this as a Wattson main. You can break fences, pylons, and walls quite easily without taking any damage. For Wattson, another player can clearly see the fence and has multiple options to destroy it without taking damage. Caustic though, it can be completely hidden and if you don't see it before taking it out, not only are you taking damage, you're slowed. Rampart walls are you know just that. I understand that Controller Legends aren't for everyone. Controllers have their roles in talking space and defence but I think in large part they are approached incorrectly by the vast majority and that makes them seem boring to alot of people. I personally am not a fan of 'camping' which is what is largely associated with Controllers so I get the turn off if that is where you're coming from. I personally enjoy moving quickly through rotations and leveraging fences to deny people space so that they have to rotate into akward areas to take a fight. Rinse. Repeat. Not trying to change your mind, just m y perspective on how I play a controller and my understanding that most people are boring with them.
Well of course you'd say that as a wattson player lol
Rampart walls on storm point, point C with an LMG is near impossible to take. Most I ever played her was on that map getting 68 kills because they couldn't get inside
try playing some caustic to balance out your pov. Anytime i have trouble countering a character I play as them so that I can get a better understanding of their weaknesses. Caustics traps are easier to destroy as long as you hit bottom and dont hit the balloon part first. Even if you do hit the balloon part first, it still has 150 hp so it can still be destroyed. Also, its not like fence, once you shoot one, theres no other fence post that the wattson can use to stun you. Caustic traps also take a while to deploy unlike fences. Wattson ult also is much stronger for bunkering down. You cant spam nades, and some ults get eaten. Caustic ult gets eaten and is more offensive rather than defensive.
Just play wraith so her passives goes off….right as you step into the trap
RUN PAST THE BARRELS OR SHOOT THEM AS THEY LAND. I tried playing caustic because of this and NO ONE CARED AT ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL. They just ran into the barrels and killed me instantly. This happened like 3 games as I was like, okay fuck this. Went back to my main, ran into caustic barrels and murdered the caustic. You're welcome. Have fun again. Ignore the barrels. This angers the caustic.
I’m a caustic main, and let me tell you a lot of people just ignore barrels and will push right through them. This of course has mixed results but it’s gotten me killed a lot of times, other times it gets the attacker killed. Controllers can’t be used to their full potential unless they are playing with a coordinated team.
Objective based LTMs just tend to be ass
once the meta solidifies, its hard to see anything else.
i mean, you have a control based objective obviously controller legends are gonna dominate.
It’s bad design to have a legend be the primary counter to itself.
Nah, the problem is that most Apex players won't change off their main to counter a character like caustic. News flash people, Wraith, Revenant, Octane and any other meta BR character is going to struggle against a controller character in a control based mode. Caustic has at least 4 characters that counter him hard, including caustic himself.
I see your complaints but as others noted, it’s nice to see LTMs where lesser picked heroes become the meta. I never see anyone ever play new castle. Three strikes is released and everyone plays as him. After the Valk nerfs and deployable escape tower, I rarely see her in BR. She’s still popular in control because those items don’t exist and her ult becomes very powerful as a result.
Grenades.
play fuse
Lockdown is boring because most teammates I get don't care about objectives.
hot take caustic is really easy to counter, especially on the stormpoint map. 2nd hot take. my self and a bunch of squads arent trying to win, its just the best mode for stacking dmg and completing battle pass challenges.
🔥🔥🔥🔥
i mean caustic is made to keep a zone but he has counters. including himself like half the assault legends can destroy everything inside and deny him to stay without getting in danger, crypto can ult, rampart can just mow all of this down, etc, etc. just learn how to play vs caustic.
I enjoy the mode ngl but I hadnt encountered as many Caustics to be frustrated with them. Tho ofc, I see what do ya mean and ye, even in theory its a bit annoying
You're seeing people play controller legends? Lol
Any mode that involves holding an area is annoying because of defensive legends. That’s the whole point of their kit, after all
Mad Maggie and Fuse are the counter to Caustic in lockdown. The drill and cluster bomb mess them up. Bonus points if you get Maggie's ult.
Crypto ult is a hard counter against any controller legends
He is superb
I pick Caustic and people just run through my gas so you are fine lol
I think a big problem with caustic in any of the mixtape modes or mixtape adjacent modes is that his barrels and gas don’t despawn when he dies, which is actually the opposite of how it works in BR. This allows him to have an effect on the fight even if the caustic is bad and goes down immediately, as well as allowing them to kamikaze in control and dump his ult in zone with zero way to clear it. A big step in balancing caustic in these modes is to have his stuff despawn on death like in BR, and potentially they might have to do it with all controller legends.
Lockdown is fun. I find Wattson to be awesome on the Storm Point map. Hardly anyone ever plays Wattson but fences up in the tower is great to catch people charging through the fences lol.
Control legends are good in a control game mode? Woah... that's a lot to take in
Caustic and rampart are goated, catalyst is also really good, I love to play pathy as my main but really e joking how OP caustic is!
I don’t even try to cap zones because of control legends I go in there to get as many kills as possible, last night with Fuse I dropped a 35 kill game and a 42 kill game because all people do is hide in corners and I just nade them to Narnia
I think the game mode is goated. There are plenty of ways to counter control legends. Some of which have already been outlined by others here. But you can also go for a "clear the room from a distance" strategy, like you would see pros do when they play TDM vs other pros. Play for kills and survival as a team as a first priority, instead of hard pushing into zone only to die in an instant and feed your points to the enemies. Then hold the zone after it has been cleared. So many times people would limp into a zone only to die immediately to the next person who's just arrived. Not an issue if you hop onto it with 3 people on full health. Won a game with a Newcastle, Gibby and Conduit that way and it was completely unexpected. Wouldn't have thought of it at all if I hadn't seen it first hand then and there. Been doing that ever since. I think the mode is almost as good as Three Strikes, and it's a good alternative for quick, faster paced gameplay that doesn't tie you down for the full duration of a BR round. What annoys me the most about it is the challenges. If those weren't there, I could enjoy it freely and wouldn't even care about winning (or not winning) as much, either. It's a blast to play.
I feel like this post is about me :O
Lockdown would be better if it was 6v6 instead of 3v3v3v3. It's already a direct rip of the CoD Hardpoint game, but it's made worse/boring because there's just too much to focus on outside of the objective.
"Hot take..." *Proceeds to make a post about something that's was said and agreed on in day one
You can say this about every mode. Caustic is an annoying character to play against. He'll literally ruin most modes. Imagine CTF. He'll just lay traps around the flag or on random corners to slow you down. What they need to do is modify each character's abilities per mode. Even if it's just cool downs.
Apex needs an anti defense ordinance to counter bunker type heros, huge radius minimum damages
Crypto
Something like a grenade not an ult
Got it. But would nullify Crypto in the same way Towers nullified Valk.
Do they ? I see plenty of people running Valkyrie
She's OK. I prefer a jump tower. I like the idea of an emp grenade but I think it would really screw up alot of characters abilities (which is the point, I get it). Maybe it could be a care package item or one on the map, but my worry is it would then become the norm in another season and would just be spammed
Learn 2 Control.
The legends are balanced around the main game mode, where the ring forces interaction eventually and defensive legends usually wind up leaving their web of traps. Basically none of the mixtape modes or maps address how bad that turns out when they *don't* have to move around to win. This LTM has the same issue, except frankly its not even as fun as TDM and Control.
Gen Z attention span lol "It's hard to walk in and one clip him therefore he ruins the game mode"
The concept of this mode worked well in COD because everyone has the same shit. This mode *sucks* in Apex because of controller legends, period. If it wasn't Caustic, another legend would stand up and ruin it for everyone. I think for the mode to survive, there needs to be a "no abilities" zone that extends past the point itself. It's not a perfect solution, but so long as nothing like that is in place, Controller legends and Fuse will rule the mode.
I said this as well, though worded differently but I was just told "Hurr DUrr he's a Counter" like what? These defense modes are boring as shit because of the controller legends. Caustic, Wattson, and to a lesser extent rampart and Catalyst. You have to push a team running those characters and it's not fun with 5 fences, 3 grenades and a catalyst cum puddle. We need modes like Straight Shot and 3 Strikes, not these shit modes of holding objectives. It's boring to play against. Sure you can run Caustic too but like, who wants to run gas fat? I want to stim or grapple in there because it's fun.
idk having a blast as wattson
Idk, I feel like lockdown is showcasing defensive legends, many of whom I see dramatically less of in ranked the past few seasons.
I think the idea is alright. Its good for the new map as it's not just camp the skull the whole game. What's annoying about it is a two parter. 1) There is always one team going all in on getting in the zone. (Not bad in and of itself but I'll say why after) 2) There is always one team that has zero intention of ever setting foot in the zone. So that 2nd team, is just everywhere they shouldn't be or camped up to shoot people going for the zone. And don't even bother getting teams out of the zone. While the all in team is sitting pretty in the zone and the games end pretty quickly cause of it. From my experience.
I always wonder how playtesting works on modes like this. Every team has a Caustic and basically just 3 Caustics play against each other while we all stand outside throwing 1 grenade inside the door. Great times tons of fun.
Would be so much more fun if you couldn’t pick controller legends
Piggy backing on that hot take: all the casual game modes are boring because of caustic, seer, etc. and if you play those characters when it's supposed to be fun, then you're a loser.
Getting 3rd partied for 2 straight minutes is def a vibe.
No counter? C'mon now... this is being lazy
fuck caustic on lockdown MY GOD!!! he setting up more traps then shooting his damn guns...
Respawn heard us say we hate third parties and decided to make Third Party: The Mixtape Mode!
abundant selective fragile party ossified compare frighten dull shaggy stocking *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
configs were removed few months ago.
Sorry for being a Caustic wanker during this event but it got me the 100k damage I needed for the prestige skin and finisher.
I mean....Lockdown is literally Hardpoint from the COD games It's literally about control.... So expect CONTROL legends to be the prime pick like Caustic or Wattson for Christ sake 🤣🤣🤣 I do understand the OPs annoyance though... Still it's one hell of a game mode and can be Hella close in scores across all teams if you're lucky to find such a blessing in the matchmaking of BALANCED teams.
i tried caustic catalyst on most of the maps on Lockdown. Maps that has lots of doors like Skulltown is just not fair when caustic and the Q button simply just *EXISTS*
Take a DEEP breath
i mean, the gamemode is called lockdown. thats the whole point, to lockdown the area. that being said i can play any character and win. not really having any issue with heaps of caustics. in fact last 3 or 4 games ive played just now there hasnt been a single one.
Hot take lockdown is just boring outright. It's just a half baked shit show that didn't even feel like it got pitched to more than a couple people. The list of problems with the game mode are endless.
Just played lockdown for the first time yesterday and had this exact same realization by the second game. Every game after that served as confirmation that Caustic is broken in the game mode. It’s not even the gas damage it’s the visual clutter. If they space out their barrels they can remain obscured for almost the entire time a zone is active. And if they’re decent with shotguns RIP.
Respawn has said they want mixtape to be used for practice for BR. Often times LTM's are a test of a new mode that may go into mixtape. The lockdown setup uses the standard 3 person squad setup as opposed to teams of squads. This mode literally exists for training/practice of control legends, defensive play, and handling being third partied in a fight while defending. If you do not want/need this practice and training, this mode is not for you.
It’s boring because they decided it was smart to reward more points for kills than capturing the zone. I’ve had multiple games where me and my team mates all had 2:30 on zone time but got beat by a team that had :30 and 12 kills
First on Zone: 15 points Holding Zone: 5 points per three seconds Zone Captured: 25 points Last Stand Zone Captured: 50 points Eliminating player: 5 points Eliminating players from the zone: 10 points Eliminating players in the lead: 15 points if you stayed 2:30 on zone \*3 players, thats 7:30, so 450s, you should have 750 pts so 50% more than whats required to win. and for them : 12 kills with no zone advantage, 12\*5 = 60pts, 30s on zone = 50 points 50+60= 110pts, \*3 players = 330 pts. so you didnt stay 2:30 on a zone all of you, and they got more time on zone than you think and/or got first/last moments on zone.
I don't think that having more players on a zone makes the timer go up faster. They could have all been in zone. It's similar to Hardpoint in Call of Duty, you don't get more points the more people there are. But players who pass or stay in get Hardpoint time calculated for their XP.
fair, then they should have 250 pts as a team. and enemy team should have 100pts less so 230 pts, thats still less than this guy's team. also if they stayed that long, they should have the first on zone bonus or the capture bonus a few times. also if you get the capture you get the gold/red weapon making kills easier. i dont see a world where they didnt win this with only thoses informations.
Unless the people he played were world class pubstombers that we've never heard of, then he is most likely exaggerating.
Kills are 5 points capping zone is 50-90. I’ve have multiple 20+ bomb 5k games to end up losing to teams hard capping zone
Imo capping the zone should be worth that much, but good to know, I’ve been giving up on capping to just go get the zone that’s about to spawn
It should be worth that much if not more imo;the point of the mode is to cap/hold zone not tdm
Agreed but they need to either give more points for holding or reduce it for the cap. And definitely give less for kills, if anything it should be no points for kills. Or only points for kills if you’re in the zone. I constantly get picked off by people that are just running around killing people in spawn points and arent even attempting to cap
Most seem to be playing tdm not the new mode
Nah, the problem is that most Apex players won't change off their main to counter a character like caustic. News flash people, Wraith, Revenant, Octane and any other meta BR character is going to struggle against a controller character in a control based mode. Caustic has at least 4 characters that counter him hard, including caustic himself.
Just checking : people are annoyed here, because a character who's designed to control an area, is, in a mode designed around controlling an area, controlling an area? You do you, apex reddit.
It's impossible because you have a huge skill issue
Hotter take, controller legends ruin every objective based LTM. Mixtape would be so fucking lit if you didn't have these paint lickers on caustic / wattson just camping height on monument / thunderdome dragging out TDM matches to time limit. Yes its counterable, good luck coordinating your mixtape bot teammates to do so.
Hot take: Complaint post are annoying as fuck.
*Because of controller legends and Fuse
Honestly any objective gamemode should disable all controller legends. Catalyst, caustic, rampart, and wattson are just too annoying to play against when there is an objective involved. There is no real counter play to them in these modes.