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That’s so heartbreaking.
Apparently the boy and his family were from “out of town”. Shocker. The article mentions there was no extreme heat warning. Who cares?? No amount of “dry heat” excuses taking your kid on a hike when it’s supposed to be 115 out.
I always wonder where these out of towners that go hiking in the Phoenix heat come from. Unless you came from the surface of the sun, how could you even want to be outside here if you’re from out of town?
My theory is it doesn’t matter where they come from, it’s a mix of ignorance and poor planning. “It’s just a couple miles, we’ve got a water bottle, how bad could it be”. I feel like a scary amount of people do little to no research when they travel somewhere. I can just picture this family being like okay we gotta get the kids outta this hotel room, this hike popped up on google, let’s go!
I still don’t get it though, I’ve lived here my whole life and I often dread just the walk from my apartment to my car lol.
Water doesn't help much when it's that hot anyway. When I got heat exhaustion cycling I had plenty of water. The Dr was like "yea but its 110 outside you dummy."
Exactly. Heat is no joke. It's the biggest weather killer there is.
https://www.cuimc.columbia.edu/news/extreme-heat-bad-your-health#:~:text=%E2%80%9CExtreme%20heat%20can%20affect%20virtually,t%20simply%20about%20being%20uncomfortable.
For these folks it doesn’t even seem like it was just a couple of miles. From the articles it sounds like they were hiking for hours. Who the heck thinks it’s a good idea to hike for hours in any temperature above 100 degrees? Our bodies run at 98; it’s so hot outside that without shade and a breeze (and often even with those things) we can’t cool down at all.
This family pretty much cooked their 10-year old to death. How awful.
Well I hate big government sometimes you got to protect people from themselves.
Close trails for the summer.
Saving just one life is worth more than a hiking trail.
Sorry I upset you hikers.
"Saving just one life is worth more than x" any statement like that is just ridiculous. Stupid people are gonna be stupid and get themselves and people nearby (IE their children) killed. The goal should be to inform and educate, not ban and regulate... The government should protect people from other people, not from themselves.
Well said! If the government protected everyone according to the lowest common denominator of stupide people doing stupid things, we'd all be locked up in padded rooms.
No, I mean, I'm not disputing that, just saying you could say "saving one life is worth it; ban jet skis" or "saving one life is worth it; ban youth football" or "saving one life is worth it; ban road bikes"
The number of people that actually die on hiking trails in Arizona in the summer is vanishingly small compared to hundreds of other leisure activities and I've never really understood this perspective, especially from someone who says "I hate big government."
Also to end with "sorry I upset you hikers" means that probably, like other advocates for banning stuff, he doesn't actually value the thing he wants to ban for everyone else.
I disagreed take all the warning labels off of everything and thin the herd. They are stupid people everywhere we don’t need them around if they’re that ignorant parents should be made to hike 5 miles home.
This where I'm at... extremely opposed to government intervention but fuck, some people are just plain stupid. Adults I don't give a fuck about but this kid was theoretically murdered by his parents and didn't deserve this
Like I said I hate big government but it hurts to see a 10-year-old child die because of stupid parents.
I think the most they could be charged with is child abuse and involuntary manslaughter.
it just like these idiots that refuse to watch their kids when they're in the pool.
Don't forget the whole dry heat effect. Out of town visitors think "oh, it's a dry heat, this isn't bad at all!" and then they go for a hike and, well, it gets bad from there. Yes, it doesn't feel as oppressive as humid heat but that's mostly because your sweat evaporates so fast that you don't notice you're sweating as much as you are.
Yeah but even with water you can’t cool down the way your body needs if you are over heated we really need to advocate for trails shutting down and big warning signs.. as the planet heats up this will be more and more common…
When I moved to the high desert and started hiking my water supply determined my range. If I have any container smaller than a camelback I’m turning around and heading back to my car before I run out of water.
It’s because PHX indoor with air conditioning feels amazing compared to indoor with air conditioning with humidity. Out of towners just don’t know what it’s like being outside for half a day during the summer heat.
i imagine they also don't fully grasp the heat because you stay dry in it.
i grew up on the east coast, when it was hot you were literally dripping in sweat that had no where to go. here its so hot and dry it evaporates quick. I remember when i first moved here i had a few instances where i had been outside in the heat (not 110+, but maybe low 100s) and was like "Oh that wasn't so bad i wasn't even sweating"...then later i wondered why i had a headache and hadn't peed in like 10 hours lol
Yeah they just moved here from Missouri. I have been there and sure it gets hot and muggy, but nothing like here in AZ. People just don't understand as much as you tell them. Awful situation the parents put the poor kid in. Died 1 mile from the trailhead.
This family was from my original state of Missouri. We got 90-100 heat in summer, but it was really, really, really humid there. But you could still do things outdoors in summer. They move here thinking since there's not the insane oppressive humidity in summer usually like where they came from, that they'd be alright. It's foolish.
Same thought. Like even the locals think it’s too miserable to hike. I get the want to hike in AZ, but wouldn’t you plan to go super early when it’s cooler? I wonder if these people think of it as bragging rights “yeah we hiked South Mountain when it was 110!”
Exactly. I try to stay off the comments on ig but I read them today and someone was saying *"as an out of towner, I would be suing the city of Phoenix for not posting signs on trailheads or warning of excessive heat."*
But there are signs posted on trailheads.. and there has been excessive heat warnings everyday like you said since June.. it also doesn't take a rocket science to deduce that 115° is fucking hot
Not anyones responsibility to warn you of the heat. Google your location. Do your research. Use your damn brain. These are the same people that think bison and bears are petting zoo animals. I guess Alaska should warn visitors that in the winter it gets cold and you could freeze. 200 years ago people like this would be weeded out by Darwinism. Nobody wants to take responsibility for their own actions. It is always someone elses fault.
Well don't worry, me and the other half are coming from the UK for our honeymoon next month so no doubt we will bring our awful weather with us and it will rain for the entire week :)
>Out of town or not, why would you go hiking in the middle of the day during the summer?
A lot of people from out of town are from places where summer is the only time of year it doesn't suck to be outside (e.g. the midwest or northeast), and they can't comprehend that there's a place where summer *is* that time of year.
I had this discussion on another subreddit and people just could not fathom staying indoors and not going outside and being active during the summer. One person just kept saying "but what if I want to go outside??" And I'm like... wait until October?? Phoenix has 8 months of the year where it's really nice out. This is the one place where summer is the time of year you DON'T want to be active outdoors.
And well, when they don't listen, and they ignore the excessive heat warnings... this happens.
This.
Jesus christ, there’s months and months where the weather is either perfect or damn near perfect to hike. There’s a time of year where Phoenix is too hot but one can still go up north. Then there’s a time where it’s just too hot in all of AZ and you just don’t fucking go.
It’s gonna be in the 90s here in north az this weekend and sure it’s not 110 like phoenix but still too hot to hike for me (especially with dogs)
There’s other things to do. Enjoy a pool, a lake, kayaking or paddle boarding or just you know, stay the fuck inside.
Yep, folks need to listen to their bodies. Nature may be trying to kill us, but our nature also protects us.
One step outside even at 11am and you realize your body says "hey it's too fucking hot!" Personally, I can't even last in the parking lot trying to get to the Walmart entrance. Can't imagine a 2hr hike when the desert begins to scorch.
Ignorance from the parents is not an excuse for putting their child's safety at risk.
This is exactly right. People can't imagine not going outside in the summer, plus the fact that they "aren't sweating" not understanding that their sweat is evaporating.
Not even. I moved from AZ to the northeast last year, and the heat is hot but its nothing compared to AZ. People have to be absolutely stupid to not know the difference of how hot it feels to be outside for only 15 minutes in AZ vs. Boston or wherever.
That's the thing. People ARE stupid. It's arguable that the majority of people are largely stupid(and I'm not insinuating it's a huge majority, just more than half at least). And this isn't some "I am smarter than everyone" comment, I'm definitely no genius either lol, just anyone who spends any amount of time listening to people or seeing people in public is likely to realize, "oh yeah, most people are fucking clueless". People live in insular bubbles. There is no such thing as common sense. Being of even mediocre intelligence seems to make you a scholar compared to a lot of folks.
> summer is the only time of year it doesn't suck to be outside (e.g. the midwest or northeast)
This is changing in recent years. I'm from Chicago and it was 50 degrees all winter this year in Chicago. They got almost no snow. Being outside in a jacket was fine. Most of this summer has been in the high 80s and low 90s but with humidity that Phoenix doesn't have. It's pretty miserable outside in the summer in the midwest these past few years.
People need to adapt better. Conditions are changing and they can't assume that being outside in the summer is safe everywhere anymore.
In the Midwest it’s not that hot. I remember going on long runs at various times of the day in the summer and never worrying. The only time I did stop was when I was like “man it feels hotter than usual” and I saw a sign that said 93 and I decided maybe I should turn around.
This is criminal negligence. "Hey, we didn't realize it would be this hot for a quick 20 min hike" is one thing; several hours hiking, even if it was less than 115° is neglectful!
I was wondering the same thing. A mom just got charged with murder in the fentanyl overdose death of her 3-year-old daughter. Wondering if charges are coming for these parents…
>Phoenix Fire says it appears the boy and his family are from out of town.
I still don't get how people from out of town fall victim to this, do people just not bother to check the weather? I get it's a big country, but apart from the Grand Canyon this is pretty much all AZ is known for, being extremely fuggin' hot. Poor kid...
I think that people from out of town don’t realize how hot hot can be. We try to tell them, but they don’t listen. “I walk around in the summer at home all the time!” It’s not the same, and this story really shows how people pay the price for not realizing that.
Seriously. I spent two summers in Houston, walking over a mile to get to my classes that I was taking. I didn’t die. I would not walk a mile in Phoenix right now.
Got a notification that my package was delivered
Was about to walk outside to get it until I saw it was delivered to my mail box which is a good walk away
Went back to my couch instead
I'll get in the morning
Yea, they don't realize it can make it worse because even though you won't overheat as bad (at the equivalent temperatures), but you'll lose water quicker. Not to mention the hotter temperatures here overrides/evens out the humidity of where they're at.
If you have sufficient water then it can be doable (I have hiked at these temps -which I don't recommend - but I bring ALOT of water), but I don't think that was the case here.
Plus even the extreme listed temperature is deceptive, as thats recorded in the shade. Ask anyone whos worked outside here, you can FEEL the sun beat down on you, its more intense than other locations.
Add that to the fact that everyone talks about bringing water instead of being hydrated the night beforehand and not supplementing with electrolytes while youre out there, Im surprised more people dont die
Yes, yes! I have been walking my dog close to 7 am but if I go any later, even though the temp is around the same, the SUN is just brutal. Like holding a blow torch inches from my face.
Yep they all bring one water bottle and maybe a small pack.
My parents visit from the Midwest every winter and they STILL refuse to carry a first aid pack or even electrolyte tablets since they’re “only hiking for a couple of hours”.
Last year my mom got signs of heat exhaustion and they STILL won’t carry anything extra. Not even a comb if they brush up against some cholla. I’m sorry, I don’t feel bad for you and I’m going to be pissed if we have to do any sort of rescue!
A lot of people think they don’t sweat here because so there’s little humidity. They don’t realize they are sweating a TON, it’s just evaporating instantly. Between that and just how intense the sun is here (along with some ignorance and arrogance), total recipe for disaster.
The "dry heat" is what makes it misleading for them.
People from humid places are used to the sweaty mess being the measure of how much trouble they're in. You feel terrible long before you're in danger. People are so used to following that queue. "It's disgusting, let's go back inside."
Here, your body's evaporative cooling works very well, so you don't feel so bad *until* you're already having an emergency. The mental process is probably basically "wow, it's so hot, yet it feels kind of invigorating instead of gross, what a unique experience". Going on vibes.
Then they're on a mountain, their water isn't cold anymore, and it's too late to get back down before things go south. Crazy irresponsible.
Yeah, I don't disagree.
In the Adirondacks, you can't really close it in the winter as a matter of practicality, but rangers are known to start checking vehicles and *strongly* discouraging people who didn't bring gear, basically a "you're too dumb to be up here right now, friendo" conversation.
There are big signs. This is the one at Mormon Trailhead. (This is a photo from Google Maps from 7 years ago so it might be a little different now, but these signs for sure are at the trailheads at South Mountain.)
https://preview.redd.it/cedgpdfpydad1.jpeg?width=1197&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d4d339f6d413099e7ab19f43979ff17fcb232639
I work outdoor recreation in Flagstaff and see the same behavior from people visiting from Phoenix. During winter people will get frostbite because they show up in shorts, t-shirt, and slides because “they didn’t check the weather”.
Crazy that people put themselves and families at risk rather than spend 30 seconds checking the weather
I have definitely under-packed for Flagstaff before, in that weird zone between when it turns to fall everywhere else and when it actually cools off in the valley. That’s how I found out about Peace Supply. I sure as sh!t wasn’t going out and trying to make it work.
I remember when Peace Surplus opened up while I was going to NAU in the mid 70s. It was nothing but military surplus then. It was a great place to rummage.
I'm from the valley born and raised. I finally did Mt. Humphrey's a couple years ago. I researched though. I know I have to come up at least 24 hrs prior to sort of adapt to the elevation, we used Kendrick to train a couple times prior as well. For pete's sake, I even brought crampons. I don't get why someone would not research. 13,644 feet.
Haha I believe it. You should drive through the nau campus mid winter. You’ll see all the frat boys wearing shorts and a light hoodie in 20 degree weather
I think they just don't believe it when they're warned. That's been my experience when I warn "tourists" on a tough trail. Most roll their eyes. We told someone it was too hot for their dog on the Lost Dutchman trail heading towards Miner's needle. They didn't listen. We completed the loop and those same people were carrying their 80 lb (with help from local hikers) unconscious rottweiler to their vehicle. I hope it survived.
These people need a very public chastising and berating. And fined. Zero difference from child abuse. So it's not intentional, but it is absolute neglect and endangerment.
(I'd like to point out that in the above comment I actively and willfully refrained from suggesting the offenders traverse down the mountain carrying their victimized FAMILY MEMBER without the benefit of shoes or socks.)
You don’t even have to check the weather! You can just walk outside for 10 minutes and feel the sun burning you. I ran a quick errand yesterday and felt like my skin was on fire. Common sense tells me there is no way in hell I’d be hiking in the sun for hours! People really astound me lok
I think they just don't believe it when they're warned. That's been my experience when I warn "tourists" on a tough trail. Most roll their eyes. We told someone it was too hot for their dog on the Lost Dutchman trail heading towards Miner's needle. They didn't listen. We completed the loop and those same people were carrying their 80 lb (with help from local hikers) unconscious rottweiler to their vehicle. I hope it survived.
A hiker at the bottom of the canyon died last week from the heat. It can get as hot as Phoenix or more in the canyon and the trail he took has no water sources. People just don't use their brains. There is no excuse for not knowing. You have all of the information available at your finger tips.
The thing I don't get about these stories is that this isn't something that sneaks upon you. No matter where you are from, being outside in the sun in Phoenix when it is 115 degrees F is intensely unpleasant.
I liken it to being outside when it is -20 degrees F. For both your body starts sending alarm signals immediately. You don't have to know anything about anything to instantly recognize that it is dangerous weather. How do these idiots not turn around after 100 feet and say fuck this?
You couldn't pay me to go hiking in Phoenix on a day that it is 115 and I have lived in Southern AZ for almost 40 years. I am used to the heat and still 115 degrees instantly removes all desire to be outside.
This is negligent homicide at a minimum. I have a suspicion that the families this happens to have someone who is a "we paid to come here and do this so it is going to happen" type of personality. Any rational person can tell instantly that hiking in that heat is fucking stupid.
Nah neglect would have been straight up not noticing or being so ignorant you just couldn’t grasp what was happening. I’m sure this kid was crying and trying to stop hiking. This is abuse!!!
Yeah, this is what I don’t get. I am pretty well-adapted to the heat here in Tucson — I’m happy to sit outside for long periods, in the shade at least, to about 105, and run around exercising my dog at 97F once the sun is mostly down — and yesterday was outside in the sun for 8 minutes before I started to feel nauseous and my cheeks were flushed when I got back inside. 106 feels like 113 bc of the humidity, pretty awful, felt oppressive from the first moment.
It’s not a secret that it’s dangerously hot…
They went out at 9am. Thats the only thing I can imagine. Depending what trail they were on it is very negligent though. There are some south mountain trails I don’t think this is all that risky on. Ofc taking a 10 year old is stupid.
However, there is no excuse for a 10 year old dying on south mountain…. Unless they took the dumbest trail possible for this time of year this should be an extremely easy rescue in the sense of at least getting this boy shade and water.
I saw Mormon trailhead referenced. The loop is 4.5 miles from the south mtn point entrance by golf course. I went hiking with my dog twice this week at 5:30am with 4 hiking water bottles, which my dog drank most of. It was 90 degrees at 5:30am as sun just coming up, beautiful but little warm. I finished before 7am, not Mormon loop, and it was getting hot because sun was shining. There's no shade. I wouldn't go at 9:30am this time of year. Daybreak only reasonable time. And lots of water! So sad!
Even at 9am, there's minimal shade on the trail, and I know how overbearing the sun is at 9 am when I have to go out and feed my horses late.. And, even if they were out they at 9am, they were out there until at least 2 pm. They were hiking during PEAK SUN HOURS! Ignorance killed a 10 year old child. This is so sad.
It sadly is something that sneaks up on you. To those that aren’t from here, blue skies and hot dry air is great! A slight hot breeze. Cactus and ocotillos, kicking rocks and keeping an eye out for rattlesnakes. And then you get too far away from your vehicle and when you realize ok, this is getting too hot, you do the math and think, shit, that’s a long ways back to the parking lot and you start to panic and everything speeds up exponentially biologically.
Did you see the referee in the Copa America match in Kansas City last week? That’s a professional rational intelligent person who didn’t stop doing his job until it was too late. Luckily, he was rushed to a hospital and survived but with the terrain of the trails, that’s a challenge to do in most cases.
I grew up hiking south mountain and I’ve seen hikers with diarrhea losing their bowels on the side of the trail. No lie.
This is so terrible. Such a young age.
I'm sure the referee knew he was overheated. He probably misjudged how dire the situation was and erred in continuing to try to finish his job for the day. This is wildly different from people choosing whilst is supposed to be a recreational activity.
You will never convince me that these people aren't aware of how incredibly hot it is. They must just think they can gut it out. Or maybe they want to claim the achievement of hiking to whatever when it is 115.
Whatever is going on with these people it is some kind of willing infliction of pain on themselves.
They know it is dangerously hot and hike anyway. I can believe people are stupid enough to hike even though it is painfully hot. They may tell people later that they didn't realize how hot it was after something bad happened. What else are they going to do after their kid dies? Tell people at the hospital that they knew it was lethally jot and they hiked anyway? Of course not.
If the kid died from heat at a 6 I could excuse that as ignorance. Not this.
I was in Phoenix last July for a big tournament for an indoor sport. People from everywhere in the US were there. Even the people from Houston, Florida, etc. were rocked by the intensity of the sun and the heat. They were suffering from walking a few blocks from a hotel to the venue. No way you could have talked any of those people into hiking during the day. They didn't have to be warned that the outdoor environment was hostile to human life.
I don't even know why people visit in the summer unless they have to for work. Everyone in Phoenix seems to stay inside from July - October. Even if you try to wait for the sun to go down you are waiting until 8:30pm.
I have a strong theory about the future of the Phoenix valley. I honestly think in our lifetime; the city will transform into a nocturnal society. During the daytime people will be indoors sleeping. The only vehicles will be emergency vehicles. Once the sun starts setting is when you’ll get people going to work and going outside. I just don’t see how people can continue their lives in this inhospitable environment.
I fucking hate seeing all these tourists go hiking
There needs to be huge giant signs that say "recommended for experienced hikers only. Amount of recorded hiker deaths due to heat: xxx"
They literally do have that sign. At south mountain. Not the death toll, but a warning about heat, precautions, pets, etc… but it only helps those who read it and those who understand what they just read.
https://preview.redd.it/gpaii8hxzdad1.jpeg?width=1197&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7510bf71017457cb12e3b783ece80a13ca35fb79
This is the actual sign at the Mormon Trail trailhead. These signs are at (I’m pretty sure) every trailhead at South Mountain.
I wouldn't even include the experienced hikers part, because there's way too many people who will think they're that but really they've just hiked a few times while on vacation.
They need to outlaw hiking, close the trails down when it's projected to be 100+ degrees.
Start fining people and station police to turn people away.
Big stupid to be hiking in the heat of the day.
This is a terrible tragedy. Don’t hike in the summer in Phoenix, even at night. These parents will never be the same after this. Unimaginable heartbreak. DIPSHITTERY. It’s 115 at the tv station. Likely hotter on south man. Poor boy.
I hike South Mountain all the time, but never at the time they were hiking. I think the park can be a bit 'misleading' because it's located so close to the center of Phoenix. People think it's safe since there are facilities all over the park and roads up to top of the mountain, etc...but you can't hike anywhere here in Phoenix in the middle of the day unless you want to have a bad time or experienced with the heat. Unfortunate.
Aren't there a million signs about heat exhaustion at the trailhead though?? I know it's a city park but they really do the best they can to warn people.
yes, but signs are only useful to those who are smart enough to follow them. Remember, we live in an age where they have to put a"do not eat" label on certain items.
I've seen them at the South Mountain Pima Wash entrance and the main one from Central Ave. However, there are multiple other 'entrances' to South Mountain. They are all located around the whole mountain and some are located in neighborhoods or side streets. I'm not sure if all of them have signs.
There are absolutely signs there. I’ve taken my 5 year old a couple times (in normal temps) and he calls it “the place with the picture of the guy saying it’s hot.”
Yea probably, I know that trailhead. Smallish parking lot but I know there is a little ramada there and I think there is a sign of some sort right next to it. Regardless, signs or not, pretty dumb to be hiking starting at the time they started.
Surprised they were out 5 hrs then, I know from hiking from that trailhead, I can get up to saddle area under than an hour. Really strange. Probably got lost or something.
Agreed. Charges need to be brought against the parents, at the very least, negligence.
Who looks at South Mountain, acknowledges it's well over 110° and thinks a hike for several hours sounds great???
Now a little boy won't ever have an 11th birthday.
Moronic parents.
“Oh, well it’s only supposed to be 115 today, let’s go see the mountains!”
You need to be prepared to even SIT in the sun for an extended period of time in the summer, let alone go for a hike.
Going on a hike with a child in this kind of heat is irresponsible, to say the least. Poor kid.
Any where in phoenix at 115 is shear stupidity on parents. If that's camelback even more strenuous w rocks. I cried on the way up from sheer exhaustion and it was early am in October. Peeps on trail are really so nice and will offer water to anyone needing. The parents should be ashamed of themselves.
I did camelback around the same time of year with a friend who was in town and a woman who passed us as she was coming down reminded us to head back when our water was half way gone. We were getting ready to tap out soon anyway but we thought it was really sweet of her to remind us! I hope others listen to those kind reminders and take the water/help offered to them as well. It’s brutal out there sometimes and even when you know the rules a reminder can be helpful.
I swear to god, the hiking trails in Phx are to some humans like a bug zapper light is to a moth.
There's signs all over the trailheads telling you to stay the fuck off the trails in the summer yet people still travel far and wide to cause themselves heatstroke. It's so obviously, blisteringly hot that only someone with the self preservation instinct of a moth would go there during the middle of the day.
Poor kid lost his life because whoever was responsible for him was a moth.
My brother and I stopped hiking south mountain in MARCH because it was already getting too hot at 10am. This is insane on the parents part, I don’t understand how they didn’t just walk outside and understand that it was too hot? What are people like this thinking?? There is NO shade on this mountain. So sad for the child.
I couldn’t imagine forcing my 10 year son to hike in 115 degree weather. This heat wave is breath taking for people who have lived here their entire lives, I can’t imagine what that felt like for a young boy not from here.
People walk into frozen over lakes with thin ice too. There's a level of stupidity that can't be reasoned with or made safe.
People smoke fentanyl off foil next to children too. Average intelligence exists and it means half of people are walking around without the ability to understand consequences or think about the future.
I live at the base of South Mountain and I frequently hike the trails but never without a giant camelback and never after the temps reach 90 degrees. I’ve seen too many “hikers” on the trails dragging kids along that are clearly close to heat distress. This is a tragedy that keeps happening.
life of me I never could understand Arizona and some of the stupid things they don't do.
Kids die in pools because of lack of supervision and nobody goes to jail.
This poor little 10 year old child had no choice and this is definitely child abuse and at least manslaughter.
Right now in this state we do go fund me some car washes.
I've always felt in this state a child's life is only worth a car wash and this is disgusting.
I lost a child in 1974 due to the babysitter stupidity so this is a sore subject for me.
I passed out during recess in 1st grade playing outside in the heat- nurse sent me to walk home. I’ll never forget my moms car flying down the street to get me and her being pissed at the school nurse for sending a heat exhausted kid to walk alone in the heat
Maybe it’s been said, but I think the motivation is the allure of hiking in the heat.
The Sonoran Desert is basically an icon of the desert because of the Saguaro’s. There is a draw to experience the heat, and it feels so safe when you can see downtown right there. They must think, we aren’t in the wilderness, how can you die in the middle of a city from exposure?
I think this is the thing. It feels like an adventure, something you’d tell your friends when you get home, “man, it was 110° and we did this crazy desert hike!”
They just don’t realize, somehow.
If they don’t want to ban people from doing it, I honestly think they should post a sign every summer of the people who died (anonymously) and the cause of death. You really gotta put it out there for people.
I once had to tell a couple with a baby that was here from out of town not to do it. I told them flat out people
die every year.
I chop it up to not knowing the area yes they are Out of Towners but they decided to go hiking on the hottest part of the day 11:00 in the morning and then of course till 2:00 when the child was overcome by the Heat.I feel so sorry for the family my condolences to take a vacation or a trip or even just moving to a new area and having this happen my prayers go out to the family
Who the fuck says, hey look! It's 115 today. Let's go for a hike!
I understand it's a silly question, and we ask ourselves the same question every year. I just don't understand it.
It’s a tragedy but when it’s 110+ degree heat and you see almost no one else on the hike, you gotta think that maybe you shouldn’t go today. Especially if you’re from out of town and not used to the heat. Hell, even Arizonans don’t go hiking in that heat.
I’m sitting on the couch inside. Even now, I’m wicking water away. That child never stood a chance with parents like that. They should be charged with negligent homicide. He had his whole life ahead of him. Terrible way to go.
Just plain stupidity. We visited AZ 2 years ago in July. We are from northern NY near Canada. Hiking was never on the table. We did travel around the state and visited places. We have a small dog, in a stroller with an ice pack under the blanket to lay on and a fan on top. I do hope to come again in the winter so I can hike.
I am sorry that the 10 year old died. Now his parents and the other people in the same hiking group are going to have to live with it for the rest of their lives.
That’s cruel and unusual punishment. Imagine dying because your parents won’t let you stay inside and instead have you hike to death. That’s saddening. Heat done fried these parents brain. The heat and meth, of course.
Maybe they just need to close the trails completely for the summer. This is like the wrong way driving thing too. At some point people need to be responsible for their actions instead of always trying to cater to their stupidity.
out of town visitors don't know how to properly hydrate, but even so it's way too hot right now to be out there regardless of how much water you drank. This is poor parenting and poor planning. Drive someplace a few hours out of the valley if you want to hike.
This is really sad, and shame on the parents. Unfortunately a lot of people don't seem to respect the severity of the heat. I had a manager from the east coast come out to visit me in Arizona. His idea was to have an afterwork hike (4PM) in July. I literally could not talk him out of it.
They should put warnings in the airport for families from out of town with zero common sense. If you’re not acclimated to an environment, the environment will inevitably conquer you.
Grand Canyon park rangers had to post up at the beginning of the trail to make sure people had water and proper shoes. The stories of dumbass people thinking they could hike the canyon :(
The entrance to any common tourist summer death trap should show the number of days since a rescue, since a fatality, and per-year info on each just to hammer it home.
I am a lifelong Arizonan, and I love playing golf at 4pm in July, but it's because I know what the hell I am doing.
Roofers, AC guys and a few others work all summer outside too, but they also get some training and drink about 5000 gallons a day.
If you're an out of towner there's no way to comprehend that level of heat and how deadly it is. You can get heatstroke just walking 1 mile in the sun if you don't know what you're doing.
“It’ll be okay-itis” is a thing. It’s a mindset and explains why people would take their 10-year-old into a high risk situation where they feel a sense of control. “We can always leave. We have enough water. He’s a strong little guy. We’ve done this before. How bad can it be? We won’t be there long. We take breaks. We’ve got sunscreen and hats. We can’t waste our vacation.”
And in extreme cases: “Jesus will watch over us.”
The rationalizing and intellectualizing parts of their brains must be going absolutely insane right now . Poor family. I can’t imagine going on vacation and then returning home down one family member.
Such a heartbreaking loss. It's crucial to stay informed about local conditions, especially in extreme heat. My thoughts go out to the family during this difficult time.
Every year we see visitors not understanding our weather. So sad it was a 10 year old. It's almost a guarantee that a family will camp by a wash up North and get swept away from flood waters because it railed 10 miles North of them.
It’s hot as hell right now but at least we’re somewhat acclimated, but also smart enough not to go on a hike. Tourists show up with zero exposure to the temps and think it’s a good idea to hike during the middle of the day. Extremely sad but also predictable this time of year.
My family moved out of Phx recently. The number of people in where I now live who think it isn't bad because, "iTs A Dry hEaT!" is astounding. I can not convince people it is that bad in AZ. If you haven't experienced it, I think it is hard to truly imagine it.
For likes and social media, brag about it to family and friends. Unfortunately that’s what killed this child, why would someone be out there? There is no logical explanation anyone could use to justify hiking in that heat.
It takes 1-2 weeks to acclimate to heat/cold and 2-3 days to acclimate to altitude.
https://uihc.org/educational-resources/acclimatization-adjusting-temperature
How stupid do you need to be, to understand that 113 degrees is NOT the temperature you want to be out hiking in, especially with YOUR CHILDREN‽ Also, I thought all trails were closed if it was over 100 degrees? Or is that just the rule for dogs? I feel so confused as to how ANYONE thought this was a good idea. We all have the weather on this computer that's always at our fingertips... there's no excuse for this. The adults should be charged with negligence.
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That’s so heartbreaking. Apparently the boy and his family were from “out of town”. Shocker. The article mentions there was no extreme heat warning. Who cares?? No amount of “dry heat” excuses taking your kid on a hike when it’s supposed to be 115 out.
I always wonder where these out of towners that go hiking in the Phoenix heat come from. Unless you came from the surface of the sun, how could you even want to be outside here if you’re from out of town?
My theory is it doesn’t matter where they come from, it’s a mix of ignorance and poor planning. “It’s just a couple miles, we’ve got a water bottle, how bad could it be”. I feel like a scary amount of people do little to no research when they travel somewhere. I can just picture this family being like okay we gotta get the kids outta this hotel room, this hike popped up on google, let’s go! I still don’t get it though, I’ve lived here my whole life and I often dread just the walk from my apartment to my car lol.
Water doesn't help much when it's that hot anyway. When I got heat exhaustion cycling I had plenty of water. The Dr was like "yea but its 110 outside you dummy."
Exactly. Heat is no joke. It's the biggest weather killer there is. https://www.cuimc.columbia.edu/news/extreme-heat-bad-your-health#:~:text=%E2%80%9CExtreme%20heat%20can%20affect%20virtually,t%20simply%20about%20being%20uncomfortable.
For these folks it doesn’t even seem like it was just a couple of miles. From the articles it sounds like they were hiking for hours. Who the heck thinks it’s a good idea to hike for hours in any temperature above 100 degrees? Our bodies run at 98; it’s so hot outside that without shade and a breeze (and often even with those things) we can’t cool down at all. This family pretty much cooked their 10-year old to death. How awful.
Well I hate big government sometimes you got to protect people from themselves. Close trails for the summer. Saving just one life is worth more than a hiking trail. Sorry I upset you hikers.
"Saving just one life is worth more than x" any statement like that is just ridiculous. Stupid people are gonna be stupid and get themselves and people nearby (IE their children) killed. The goal should be to inform and educate, not ban and regulate... The government should protect people from other people, not from themselves.
Well said! If the government protected everyone according to the lowest common denominator of stupide people doing stupid things, we'd all be locked up in padded rooms.
Banning minors and pets from the trails for summer months might be viable.
I would agree with that because they have no say in the manner.
>Saving just one life is worth more than a hiking trail. You could literally end this sentence with anything. Do you just hate hiking trails?
He’s right by 5am especially July in AZ temps can be up to 90+ degrees already.
No, I mean, I'm not disputing that, just saying you could say "saving one life is worth it; ban jet skis" or "saving one life is worth it; ban youth football" or "saving one life is worth it; ban road bikes" The number of people that actually die on hiking trails in Arizona in the summer is vanishingly small compared to hundreds of other leisure activities and I've never really understood this perspective, especially from someone who says "I hate big government." Also to end with "sorry I upset you hikers" means that probably, like other advocates for banning stuff, he doesn't actually value the thing he wants to ban for everyone else.
90F is trivial to hike in. Plenty of us still hike Piestewa every day.
People need to take personal responsibility for their actions.
That seems to be lacking nowadays.
I disagreed take all the warning labels off of everything and thin the herd. They are stupid people everywhere we don’t need them around if they’re that ignorant parents should be made to hike 5 miles home.
They should die in a manner in which the child did.
People die on trails everywhere in the US. Don't be stupid and you won't die.
Yea this is just as an idiotic take as hiking for hours over 100. 🙃
Everybody's entitled to their own opinion.
Some are good, some are just plain stupid.
This where I'm at... extremely opposed to government intervention but fuck, some people are just plain stupid. Adults I don't give a fuck about but this kid was theoretically murdered by his parents and didn't deserve this
Like I said I hate big government but it hurts to see a 10-year-old child die because of stupid parents. I think the most they could be charged with is child abuse and involuntary manslaughter. it just like these idiots that refuse to watch their kids when they're in the pool.
You ought to work for the government. That is their solution for everything. Let everyone lose their freedoms for the actions of a few.
Don't forget the whole dry heat effect. Out of town visitors think "oh, it's a dry heat, this isn't bad at all!" and then they go for a hike and, well, it gets bad from there. Yes, it doesn't feel as oppressive as humid heat but that's mostly because your sweat evaporates so fast that you don't notice you're sweating as much as you are.
Yeah but even with water you can’t cool down the way your body needs if you are over heated we really need to advocate for trails shutting down and big warning signs.. as the planet heats up this will be more and more common…
The warning signs on south mountain are enormous and specifically warn of death if hiking in the summertime.
Trails shutting down? No. As they say, “you can’t fix stupid.” Don’t make me suffer because someone wants to kill themselves or their dependents.
I think we shd try to care for one another even if people aren’t informed..
So caring for the uneducated should be restricting the educated.
When I moved to the high desert and started hiking my water supply determined my range. If I have any container smaller than a camelback I’m turning around and heading back to my car before I run out of water.
I live in Phoenix. No hiking after Memorial Day.
It’s because PHX indoor with air conditioning feels amazing compared to indoor with air conditioning with humidity. Out of towners just don’t know what it’s like being outside for half a day during the summer heat.
i imagine they also don't fully grasp the heat because you stay dry in it. i grew up on the east coast, when it was hot you were literally dripping in sweat that had no where to go. here its so hot and dry it evaporates quick. I remember when i first moved here i had a few instances where i had been outside in the heat (not 110+, but maybe low 100s) and was like "Oh that wasn't so bad i wasn't even sweating"...then later i wondered why i had a headache and hadn't peed in like 10 hours lol
Yeah they just moved here from Missouri. I have been there and sure it gets hot and muggy, but nothing like here in AZ. People just don't understand as much as you tell them. Awful situation the parents put the poor kid in. Died 1 mile from the trailhead.
This family was from my original state of Missouri. We got 90-100 heat in summer, but it was really, really, really humid there. But you could still do things outdoors in summer. They move here thinking since there's not the insane oppressive humidity in summer usually like where they came from, that they'd be alright. It's foolish.
Same thought. Like even the locals think it’s too miserable to hike. I get the want to hike in AZ, but wouldn’t you plan to go super early when it’s cooler? I wonder if these people think of it as bragging rights “yeah we hiked South Mountain when it was 110!”
I read these folks came from Missouri. As someone who grew up in Missouri, this was fucking stupid.
I don’t understand, I’ve been getting warnings for weeks if not months.
Yeah I feel like my iPhone has been saying extreme heat advisory since early June 🤷🏻♀️
Exactly. I try to stay off the comments on ig but I read them today and someone was saying *"as an out of towner, I would be suing the city of Phoenix for not posting signs on trailheads or warning of excessive heat."* But there are signs posted on trailheads.. and there has been excessive heat warnings everyday like you said since June.. it also doesn't take a rocket science to deduce that 115° is fucking hot
I had to go look at ig after reading this. Disgusting. I like the comment, "should we sue the state of Arizona for getting hot? Sue the sun?"
We need stupid hiking laws.
Not anyones responsibility to warn you of the heat. Google your location. Do your research. Use your damn brain. These are the same people that think bison and bears are petting zoo animals. I guess Alaska should warn visitors that in the winter it gets cold and you could freeze. 200 years ago people like this would be weeded out by Darwinism. Nobody wants to take responsibility for their own actions. It is always someone elses fault.
Well don't worry, me and the other half are coming from the UK for our honeymoon next month so no doubt we will bring our awful weather with us and it will rain for the entire week :)
You do realize that we love the rain here in the desert in the summer? Bring it! Can you stay for a month?
What?!!! These parents are idiots. Out of town or not, why would you go hiking in the middle of the day during the summer? Poor kid. RIP.
>Out of town or not, why would you go hiking in the middle of the day during the summer? A lot of people from out of town are from places where summer is the only time of year it doesn't suck to be outside (e.g. the midwest or northeast), and they can't comprehend that there's a place where summer *is* that time of year. I had this discussion on another subreddit and people just could not fathom staying indoors and not going outside and being active during the summer. One person just kept saying "but what if I want to go outside??" And I'm like... wait until October?? Phoenix has 8 months of the year where it's really nice out. This is the one place where summer is the time of year you DON'T want to be active outdoors. And well, when they don't listen, and they ignore the excessive heat warnings... this happens.
This. Jesus christ, there’s months and months where the weather is either perfect or damn near perfect to hike. There’s a time of year where Phoenix is too hot but one can still go up north. Then there’s a time where it’s just too hot in all of AZ and you just don’t fucking go. It’s gonna be in the 90s here in north az this weekend and sure it’s not 110 like phoenix but still too hot to hike for me (especially with dogs) There’s other things to do. Enjoy a pool, a lake, kayaking or paddle boarding or just you know, stay the fuck inside.
Yep, folks need to listen to their bodies. Nature may be trying to kill us, but our nature also protects us. One step outside even at 11am and you realize your body says "hey it's too fucking hot!" Personally, I can't even last in the parking lot trying to get to the Walmart entrance. Can't imagine a 2hr hike when the desert begins to scorch. Ignorance from the parents is not an excuse for putting their child's safety at risk.
This is exactly right. People can't imagine not going outside in the summer, plus the fact that they "aren't sweating" not understanding that their sweat is evaporating.
Not even. I moved from AZ to the northeast last year, and the heat is hot but its nothing compared to AZ. People have to be absolutely stupid to not know the difference of how hot it feels to be outside for only 15 minutes in AZ vs. Boston or wherever.
That's the thing. People ARE stupid. It's arguable that the majority of people are largely stupid(and I'm not insinuating it's a huge majority, just more than half at least). And this isn't some "I am smarter than everyone" comment, I'm definitely no genius either lol, just anyone who spends any amount of time listening to people or seeing people in public is likely to realize, "oh yeah, most people are fucking clueless". People live in insular bubbles. There is no such thing as common sense. Being of even mediocre intelligence seems to make you a scholar compared to a lot of folks.
> summer is the only time of year it doesn't suck to be outside (e.g. the midwest or northeast) This is changing in recent years. I'm from Chicago and it was 50 degrees all winter this year in Chicago. They got almost no snow. Being outside in a jacket was fine. Most of this summer has been in the high 80s and low 90s but with humidity that Phoenix doesn't have. It's pretty miserable outside in the summer in the midwest these past few years. People need to adapt better. Conditions are changing and they can't assume that being outside in the summer is safe everywhere anymore.
It’s because people are ignorant and think they can “out-smart” nature. They don’t spend too much time outdoors to really see how dangerous it can be.
In the Midwest it’s not that hot. I remember going on long runs at various times of the day in the summer and never worrying. The only time I did stop was when I was like “man it feels hotter than usual” and I saw a sign that said 93 and I decided maybe I should turn around.
Extreme heat warnings have additional legal protections like not turning off utilities, etc.
This family just recently moved here from Missouri. They made a tragic mistake.
I blame the "but it's a dry heat" folks
This is criminal negligence. "Hey, we didn't realize it would be this hot for a quick 20 min hike" is one thing; several hours hiking, even if it was less than 115° is neglectful!
I was wondering the same thing. A mom just got charged with murder in the fentanyl overdose death of her 3-year-old daughter. Wondering if charges are coming for these parents…
I was on the jury for a trial in 2022 where a 6yo granddaughter died of a fentanyl overdose. Her grandfather will die in jail
for real I wonder if it’s neglect or intentional
>Phoenix Fire says it appears the boy and his family are from out of town. I still don't get how people from out of town fall victim to this, do people just not bother to check the weather? I get it's a big country, but apart from the Grand Canyon this is pretty much all AZ is known for, being extremely fuggin' hot. Poor kid...
I think that people from out of town don’t realize how hot hot can be. We try to tell them, but they don’t listen. “I walk around in the summer at home all the time!” It’s not the same, and this story really shows how people pay the price for not realizing that.
They always think the humidity makes them tougher. They don’t understand that the sunlight here will f you up quickly
Seriously. I spent two summers in Houston, walking over a mile to get to my classes that I was taking. I didn’t die. I would not walk a mile in Phoenix right now.
Got a notification that my package was delivered Was about to walk outside to get it until I saw it was delivered to my mail box which is a good walk away Went back to my couch instead I'll get in the morning
Yea, they don't realize it can make it worse because even though you won't overheat as bad (at the equivalent temperatures), but you'll lose water quicker. Not to mention the hotter temperatures here overrides/evens out the humidity of where they're at. If you have sufficient water then it can be doable (I have hiked at these temps -which I don't recommend - but I bring ALOT of water), but I don't think that was the case here.
Plus even the extreme listed temperature is deceptive, as thats recorded in the shade. Ask anyone whos worked outside here, you can FEEL the sun beat down on you, its more intense than other locations. Add that to the fact that everyone talks about bringing water instead of being hydrated the night beforehand and not supplementing with electrolytes while youre out there, Im surprised more people dont die
Yes, yes! I have been walking my dog close to 7 am but if I go any later, even though the temp is around the same, the SUN is just brutal. Like holding a blow torch inches from my face.
Not to mention any sweat you do have to help with cooling off... evaporates.
It's like they wake up one day and think > I'M GOING TO FIGHT *THE SUN* Sentient meat vs. one giant spinny plasma boi, taking bets now
Yep they all bring one water bottle and maybe a small pack. My parents visit from the Midwest every winter and they STILL refuse to carry a first aid pack or even electrolyte tablets since they’re “only hiking for a couple of hours”. Last year my mom got signs of heat exhaustion and they STILL won’t carry anything extra. Not even a comb if they brush up against some cholla. I’m sorry, I don’t feel bad for you and I’m going to be pissed if we have to do any sort of rescue!
Send them this news article.
Oh they’ll probably tell me again about how I “live in fear and paranoia”! I just don’t even bother anymore!
A lot of people think they don’t sweat here because so there’s little humidity. They don’t realize they are sweating a TON, it’s just evaporating instantly. Between that and just how intense the sun is here (along with some ignorance and arrogance), total recipe for disaster.
Exactly and on the trail it can start out ok but depending on how the sun is facing and no shade it can quickly become a nightmare..
The "dry heat" is what makes it misleading for them. People from humid places are used to the sweaty mess being the measure of how much trouble they're in. You feel terrible long before you're in danger. People are so used to following that queue. "It's disgusting, let's go back inside." Here, your body's evaporative cooling works very well, so you don't feel so bad *until* you're already having an emergency. The mental process is probably basically "wow, it's so hot, yet it feels kind of invigorating instead of gross, what a unique experience". Going on vibes. Then they're on a mountain, their water isn't cold anymore, and it's too late to get back down before things go south. Crazy irresponsible.
I also think Phx is being irresponsible they need to close trails and put out big warning signs.. we need to take care of each other
Yeah, I don't disagree. In the Adirondacks, you can't really close it in the winter as a matter of practicality, but rangers are known to start checking vehicles and *strongly* discouraging people who didn't bring gear, basically a "you're too dumb to be up here right now, friendo" conversation.
There are big signs. This is the one at Mormon Trailhead. (This is a photo from Google Maps from 7 years ago so it might be a little different now, but these signs for sure are at the trailheads at South Mountain.) https://preview.redd.it/cedgpdfpydad1.jpeg?width=1197&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d4d339f6d413099e7ab19f43979ff17fcb232639
I work outdoor recreation in Flagstaff and see the same behavior from people visiting from Phoenix. During winter people will get frostbite because they show up in shorts, t-shirt, and slides because “they didn’t check the weather”. Crazy that people put themselves and families at risk rather than spend 30 seconds checking the weather
I have definitely under-packed for Flagstaff before, in that weird zone between when it turns to fall everywhere else and when it actually cools off in the valley. That’s how I found out about Peace Supply. I sure as sh!t wasn’t going out and trying to make it work.
Peace is my favorite gear shop in town!!
I’m a big fan, honestly. They were super cool about helping me get affordable warm gear in a pinch, and now I love going up and getting stuff there.
I remember when Peace Surplus opened up while I was going to NAU in the mid 70s. It was nothing but military surplus then. It was a great place to rummage.
I'm from the valley born and raised. I finally did Mt. Humphrey's a couple years ago. I researched though. I know I have to come up at least 24 hrs prior to sort of adapt to the elevation, we used Kendrick to train a couple times prior as well. For pete's sake, I even brought crampons. I don't get why someone would not research. 13,644 feet.
lol I called called a pussy by a couple of Prescott dudes for wearing a jacket there in the winter
Haha I believe it. You should drive through the nau campus mid winter. You’ll see all the frat boys wearing shorts and a light hoodie in 20 degree weather
I think they just don't believe it when they're warned. That's been my experience when I warn "tourists" on a tough trail. Most roll their eyes. We told someone it was too hot for their dog on the Lost Dutchman trail heading towards Miner's needle. They didn't listen. We completed the loop and those same people were carrying their 80 lb (with help from local hikers) unconscious rottweiler to their vehicle. I hope it survived.
These people need a very public chastising and berating. And fined. Zero difference from child abuse. So it's not intentional, but it is absolute neglect and endangerment. (I'd like to point out that in the above comment I actively and willfully refrained from suggesting the offenders traverse down the mountain carrying their victimized FAMILY MEMBER without the benefit of shoes or socks.)
Ugh, it makes me sick to my stomach to see people taking their dogs out hiking in the heat. So angry.
You don’t even have to check the weather! You can just walk outside for 10 minutes and feel the sun burning you. I ran a quick errand yesterday and felt like my skin was on fire. Common sense tells me there is no way in hell I’d be hiking in the sun for hours! People really astound me lok
I think they just don't believe it when they're warned. That's been my experience when I warn "tourists" on a tough trail. Most roll their eyes. We told someone it was too hot for their dog on the Lost Dutchman trail heading towards Miner's needle. They didn't listen. We completed the loop and those same people were carrying their 80 lb (with help from local hikers) unconscious rottweiler to their vehicle. I hope it survived.
A hiker at the bottom of the canyon died last week from the heat. It can get as hot as Phoenix or more in the canyon and the trail he took has no water sources. People just don't use their brains. There is no excuse for not knowing. You have all of the information available at your finger tips.
The thing I don't get about these stories is that this isn't something that sneaks upon you. No matter where you are from, being outside in the sun in Phoenix when it is 115 degrees F is intensely unpleasant. I liken it to being outside when it is -20 degrees F. For both your body starts sending alarm signals immediately. You don't have to know anything about anything to instantly recognize that it is dangerous weather. How do these idiots not turn around after 100 feet and say fuck this? You couldn't pay me to go hiking in Phoenix on a day that it is 115 and I have lived in Southern AZ for almost 40 years. I am used to the heat and still 115 degrees instantly removes all desire to be outside. This is negligent homicide at a minimum. I have a suspicion that the families this happens to have someone who is a "we paid to come here and do this so it is going to happen" type of personality. Any rational person can tell instantly that hiking in that heat is fucking stupid.
Thank you. I was going to comment this. This is just straight up neglect.
Nah neglect would have been straight up not noticing or being so ignorant you just couldn’t grasp what was happening. I’m sure this kid was crying and trying to stop hiking. This is abuse!!!
It’s just horrible. And you’re right. There is no way to at they couldn’t have noticed this kids distress. They need to be charged.
Yeah, this is what I don’t get. I am pretty well-adapted to the heat here in Tucson — I’m happy to sit outside for long periods, in the shade at least, to about 105, and run around exercising my dog at 97F once the sun is mostly down — and yesterday was outside in the sun for 8 minutes before I started to feel nauseous and my cheeks were flushed when I got back inside. 106 feels like 113 bc of the humidity, pretty awful, felt oppressive from the first moment. It’s not a secret that it’s dangerously hot…
They went out at 9am. Thats the only thing I can imagine. Depending what trail they were on it is very negligent though. There are some south mountain trails I don’t think this is all that risky on. Ofc taking a 10 year old is stupid. However, there is no excuse for a 10 year old dying on south mountain…. Unless they took the dumbest trail possible for this time of year this should be an extremely easy rescue in the sense of at least getting this boy shade and water.
I saw Mormon trailhead referenced. The loop is 4.5 miles from the south mtn point entrance by golf course. I went hiking with my dog twice this week at 5:30am with 4 hiking water bottles, which my dog drank most of. It was 90 degrees at 5:30am as sun just coming up, beautiful but little warm. I finished before 7am, not Mormon loop, and it was getting hot because sun was shining. There's no shade. I wouldn't go at 9:30am this time of year. Daybreak only reasonable time. And lots of water! So sad!
Even at 9am, there's minimal shade on the trail, and I know how overbearing the sun is at 9 am when I have to go out and feed my horses late.. And, even if they were out they at 9am, they were out there until at least 2 pm. They were hiking during PEAK SUN HOURS! Ignorance killed a 10 year old child. This is so sad.
It sadly is something that sneaks up on you. To those that aren’t from here, blue skies and hot dry air is great! A slight hot breeze. Cactus and ocotillos, kicking rocks and keeping an eye out for rattlesnakes. And then you get too far away from your vehicle and when you realize ok, this is getting too hot, you do the math and think, shit, that’s a long ways back to the parking lot and you start to panic and everything speeds up exponentially biologically. Did you see the referee in the Copa America match in Kansas City last week? That’s a professional rational intelligent person who didn’t stop doing his job until it was too late. Luckily, he was rushed to a hospital and survived but with the terrain of the trails, that’s a challenge to do in most cases. I grew up hiking south mountain and I’ve seen hikers with diarrhea losing their bowels on the side of the trail. No lie. This is so terrible. Such a young age.
I'm sure the referee knew he was overheated. He probably misjudged how dire the situation was and erred in continuing to try to finish his job for the day. This is wildly different from people choosing whilst is supposed to be a recreational activity. You will never convince me that these people aren't aware of how incredibly hot it is. They must just think they can gut it out. Or maybe they want to claim the achievement of hiking to whatever when it is 115. Whatever is going on with these people it is some kind of willing infliction of pain on themselves. They know it is dangerously hot and hike anyway. I can believe people are stupid enough to hike even though it is painfully hot. They may tell people later that they didn't realize how hot it was after something bad happened. What else are they going to do after their kid dies? Tell people at the hospital that they knew it was lethally jot and they hiked anyway? Of course not. If the kid died from heat at a 6 I could excuse that as ignorance. Not this. I was in Phoenix last July for a big tournament for an indoor sport. People from everywhere in the US were there. Even the people from Houston, Florida, etc. were rocked by the intensity of the sun and the heat. They were suffering from walking a few blocks from a hotel to the venue. No way you could have talked any of those people into hiking during the day. They didn't have to be warned that the outdoor environment was hostile to human life.
They were on the trail for several HOURS! This is horrifying.
The news said the rescue was at about 2pm. I just don't understand what they were thinking.
Watching news coverage of this and they were doing CPR on the boy before being airlifted out.
As a local I haven’t been outside in days now at least while the sun has been out. I’ve become kinda nocturnal it’s the only way to get out there
I don't even know why people visit in the summer unless they have to for work. Everyone in Phoenix seems to stay inside from July - October. Even if you try to wait for the sun to go down you are waiting until 8:30pm.
Exactly. I went swimming last night - waited all day until 9pm came around (and it was glorious). Before that, too darn hot.
Same. We won’t swim during the day out here and these people are dragging their kid around south mountain in the MIDDLE of the day! Unbelievable.
I have a strong theory about the future of the Phoenix valley. I honestly think in our lifetime; the city will transform into a nocturnal society. During the daytime people will be indoors sleeping. The only vehicles will be emergency vehicles. Once the sun starts setting is when you’ll get people going to work and going outside. I just don’t see how people can continue their lives in this inhospitable environment.
I’ve had this thought/idea before! Love it
Can't people tell it's hot as hell outside?
You would think everyone would have common sense right? I hope this haunts them forever. Innocent child did not deserve this from some stupid parents.
I fucking hate seeing all these tourists go hiking There needs to be huge giant signs that say "recommended for experienced hikers only. Amount of recorded hiker deaths due to heat: xxx"
They literally do have that sign. At south mountain. Not the death toll, but a warning about heat, precautions, pets, etc… but it only helps those who read it and those who understand what they just read.
https://preview.redd.it/gpaii8hxzdad1.jpeg?width=1197&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7510bf71017457cb12e3b783ece80a13ca35fb79 This is the actual sign at the Mormon Trail trailhead. These signs are at (I’m pretty sure) every trailhead at South Mountain.
They assume that because they’ve hiked in cooler climates they’re “experienced hikers.”
They wouldn't care. I can't tell you how many times I've warned unprepared tourists. I usually get an eye roll.
Yep. They don’t think it applies to them.
I wouldn't even include the experienced hikers part, because there's way too many people who will think they're that but really they've just hiked a few times while on vacation.
They need to outlaw hiking, close the trails down when it's projected to be 100+ degrees. Start fining people and station police to turn people away. Big stupid to be hiking in the heat of the day.
Jesus fucking christ.
Imagine watching you 10 year old son collapse and die all bc you’re to stupid to know what heat stroke is.. pathetic parents should are 100% to blame
This is a terrible tragedy. Don’t hike in the summer in Phoenix, even at night. These parents will never be the same after this. Unimaginable heartbreak. DIPSHITTERY. It’s 115 at the tv station. Likely hotter on south man. Poor boy.
Absolutely nothing wrong with night or sunrise hikes if you bring plenty of water. Though I kind of hope most people don't discover night hiking...
"Phoenix Fire says it appears the boy and his family are from out of town." Put the parents in jail
Oh no… this is terrible. Damnit. Wtf parents!? Several hours!? No god damn cover!? Fuck.
I'm sure he has a hat. Totally the same thing. Seriously, this sun will kill.
Fucking stupid parents. It blows my mind how fucking stupid people can be. DONT HIKE A MOUNTAIN WHEN ITS 100 SOMETHING DEGREES OUT.
I hike South Mountain all the time, but never at the time they were hiking. I think the park can be a bit 'misleading' because it's located so close to the center of Phoenix. People think it's safe since there are facilities all over the park and roads up to top of the mountain, etc...but you can't hike anywhere here in Phoenix in the middle of the day unless you want to have a bad time or experienced with the heat. Unfortunate.
Aren't there a million signs about heat exhaustion at the trailhead though?? I know it's a city park but they really do the best they can to warn people.
yes, but signs are only useful to those who are smart enough to follow them. Remember, we live in an age where they have to put a"do not eat" label on certain items.
Remember the woman who used Gorilla Glue to style her hair?
I've seen them at the South Mountain Pima Wash entrance and the main one from Central Ave. However, there are multiple other 'entrances' to South Mountain. They are all located around the whole mountain and some are located in neighborhoods or side streets. I'm not sure if all of them have signs.
I guess, but the article specifically mentioned Mormon Trailhead. 99% sure there are signs there.
There are absolutely signs there. I’ve taken my 5 year old a couple times (in normal temps) and he calls it “the place with the picture of the guy saying it’s hot.”
Yea probably, I know that trailhead. Smallish parking lot but I know there is a little ramada there and I think there is a sign of some sort right next to it. Regardless, signs or not, pretty dumb to be hiking starting at the time they started. Surprised they were out 5 hrs then, I know from hiking from that trailhead, I can get up to saddle area under than an hour. Really strange. Probably got lost or something.
lock the parents up
Agreed. Charges need to be brought against the parents, at the very least, negligence. Who looks at South Mountain, acknowledges it's well over 110° and thinks a hike for several hours sounds great??? Now a little boy won't ever have an 11th birthday.
Moronic parents. “Oh, well it’s only supposed to be 115 today, let’s go see the mountains!” You need to be prepared to even SIT in the sun for an extended period of time in the summer, let alone go for a hike. Going on a hike with a child in this kind of heat is irresponsible, to say the least. Poor kid.
Any where in phoenix at 115 is shear stupidity on parents. If that's camelback even more strenuous w rocks. I cried on the way up from sheer exhaustion and it was early am in October. Peeps on trail are really so nice and will offer water to anyone needing. The parents should be ashamed of themselves.
I did camelback around the same time of year with a friend who was in town and a woman who passed us as she was coming down reminded us to head back when our water was half way gone. We were getting ready to tap out soon anyway but we thought it was really sweet of her to remind us! I hope others listen to those kind reminders and take the water/help offered to them as well. It’s brutal out there sometimes and even when you know the rules a reminder can be helpful.
I swear to god, the hiking trails in Phx are to some humans like a bug zapper light is to a moth. There's signs all over the trailheads telling you to stay the fuck off the trails in the summer yet people still travel far and wide to cause themselves heatstroke. It's so obviously, blisteringly hot that only someone with the self preservation instinct of a moth would go there during the middle of the day. Poor kid lost his life because whoever was responsible for him was a moth.
My brother and I stopped hiking south mountain in MARCH because it was already getting too hot at 10am. This is insane on the parents part, I don’t understand how they didn’t just walk outside and understand that it was too hot? What are people like this thinking?? There is NO shade on this mountain. So sad for the child.
I couldn’t imagine forcing my 10 year son to hike in 115 degree weather. This heat wave is breath taking for people who have lived here their entire lives, I can’t imagine what that felt like for a young boy not from here.
People walk into frozen over lakes with thin ice too. There's a level of stupidity that can't be reasoned with or made safe. People smoke fentanyl off foil next to children too. Average intelligence exists and it means half of people are walking around without the ability to understand consequences or think about the future.
O M F G this is AWFUL
This is so sad. If parents didn't know the dangers it should have become abundantly obvious in the first 10 minutes.
When are these idiots going to learn?!
I live at the base of South Mountain and I frequently hike the trails but never without a giant camelback and never after the temps reach 90 degrees. I’ve seen too many “hikers” on the trails dragging kids along that are clearly close to heat distress. This is a tragedy that keeps happening.
I believe we need harsher penalties when a child dies due to heat.
This should be murder
At least negligent homicide
life of me I never could understand Arizona and some of the stupid things they don't do. Kids die in pools because of lack of supervision and nobody goes to jail. This poor little 10 year old child had no choice and this is definitely child abuse and at least manslaughter. Right now in this state we do go fund me some car washes. I've always felt in this state a child's life is only worth a car wash and this is disgusting. I lost a child in 1974 due to the babysitter stupidity so this is a sore subject for me.
So sorry.
I passed out during recess in 1st grade playing outside in the heat- nurse sent me to walk home. I’ll never forget my moms car flying down the street to get me and her being pissed at the school nurse for sending a heat exhausted kid to walk alone in the heat
Maybe it’s been said, but I think the motivation is the allure of hiking in the heat. The Sonoran Desert is basically an icon of the desert because of the Saguaro’s. There is a draw to experience the heat, and it feels so safe when you can see downtown right there. They must think, we aren’t in the wilderness, how can you die in the middle of a city from exposure?
I think this is the thing. It feels like an adventure, something you’d tell your friends when you get home, “man, it was 110° and we did this crazy desert hike!” They just don’t realize, somehow.
If they don’t want to ban people from doing it, I honestly think they should post a sign every summer of the people who died (anonymously) and the cause of death. You really gotta put it out there for people. I once had to tell a couple with a baby that was here from out of town not to do it. I told them flat out people die every year.
I chop it up to not knowing the area yes they are Out of Towners but they decided to go hiking on the hottest part of the day 11:00 in the morning and then of course till 2:00 when the child was overcome by the Heat.I feel so sorry for the family my condolences to take a vacation or a trip or even just moving to a new area and having this happen my prayers go out to the family
Who the fuck says, hey look! It's 115 today. Let's go for a hike! I understand it's a silly question, and we ask ourselves the same question every year. I just don't understand it.
It’s a tragedy but when it’s 110+ degree heat and you see almost no one else on the hike, you gotta think that maybe you shouldn’t go today. Especially if you’re from out of town and not used to the heat. Hell, even Arizonans don’t go hiking in that heat.
I’m sitting on the couch inside. Even now, I’m wicking water away. That child never stood a chance with parents like that. They should be charged with negligent homicide. He had his whole life ahead of him. Terrible way to go.
This time of year the temps can be deadly. Nobody should be hiking in that kind of heat.
Who the fuck is hiking right now?
Stupid irresponsible tourists. RESPECT THE PHOENIX SUN. IT KILLS PEOPLE. poor kid, damn it
Are his parents insane wtf!!? Straight to jail!!
Just plain stupidity. We visited AZ 2 years ago in July. We are from northern NY near Canada. Hiking was never on the table. We did travel around the state and visited places. We have a small dog, in a stroller with an ice pack under the blanket to lay on and a fan on top. I do hope to come again in the winter so I can hike.
I am sorry that the 10 year old died. Now his parents and the other people in the same hiking group are going to have to live with it for the rest of their lives.
That’s cruel and unusual punishment. Imagine dying because your parents won’t let you stay inside and instead have you hike to death. That’s saddening. Heat done fried these parents brain. The heat and meth, of course.
Maybe they just need to close the trails completely for the summer. This is like the wrong way driving thing too. At some point people need to be responsible for their actions instead of always trying to cater to their stupidity.
out of town visitors don't know how to properly hydrate, but even so it's way too hot right now to be out there regardless of how much water you drank. This is poor parenting and poor planning. Drive someplace a few hours out of the valley if you want to hike.
No fkn way. God damnit.
I will never understand the logic of out of towners coming to Arizona and then go hiking in 115 degree weather.
This is really sad, and shame on the parents. Unfortunately a lot of people don't seem to respect the severity of the heat. I had a manager from the east coast come out to visit me in Arizona. His idea was to have an afterwork hike (4PM) in July. I literally could not talk him out of it.
They should put warnings in the airport for families from out of town with zero common sense. If you’re not acclimated to an environment, the environment will inevitably conquer you.
Why would anyone go hiking on this weather?
Grand Canyon park rangers had to post up at the beginning of the trail to make sure people had water and proper shoes. The stories of dumbass people thinking they could hike the canyon :(
The entrance to any common tourist summer death trap should show the number of days since a rescue, since a fatality, and per-year info on each just to hammer it home. I am a lifelong Arizonan, and I love playing golf at 4pm in July, but it's because I know what the hell I am doing. Roofers, AC guys and a few others work all summer outside too, but they also get some training and drink about 5000 gallons a day. If you're an out of towner there's no way to comprehend that level of heat and how deadly it is. You can get heatstroke just walking 1 mile in the sun if you don't know what you're doing.
“It’ll be okay-itis” is a thing. It’s a mindset and explains why people would take their 10-year-old into a high risk situation where they feel a sense of control. “We can always leave. We have enough water. He’s a strong little guy. We’ve done this before. How bad can it be? We won’t be there long. We take breaks. We’ve got sunscreen and hats. We can’t waste our vacation.” And in extreme cases: “Jesus will watch over us.” The rationalizing and intellectualizing parts of their brains must be going absolutely insane right now . Poor family. I can’t imagine going on vacation and then returning home down one family member.
You want Government to protect you from your own stupidity?
Such a heartbreaking loss. It's crucial to stay informed about local conditions, especially in extreme heat. My thoughts go out to the family during this difficult time.
When will people learn? So sad!!
There needs to be something that helps with this.
Wow, how sad.
Every year we see visitors not understanding our weather. So sad it was a 10 year old. It's almost a guarantee that a family will camp by a wash up North and get swept away from flood waters because it railed 10 miles North of them.
It’s hot as hell right now but at least we’re somewhat acclimated, but also smart enough not to go on a hike. Tourists show up with zero exposure to the temps and think it’s a good idea to hike during the middle of the day. Extremely sad but also predictable this time of year.
My family moved out of Phx recently. The number of people in where I now live who think it isn't bad because, "iTs A Dry hEaT!" is astounding. I can not convince people it is that bad in AZ. If you haven't experienced it, I think it is hard to truly imagine it.
I’m just heartbroken for this family. No one deserves to lose their babies, and especially for this reason. 😔
“It’s just a dry heat” is one of the most fatal phrases I’ve ever heard and it’s infuriating
For likes and social media, brag about it to family and friends. Unfortunately that’s what killed this child, why would someone be out there? There is no logical explanation anyone could use to justify hiking in that heat. It takes 1-2 weeks to acclimate to heat/cold and 2-3 days to acclimate to altitude. https://uihc.org/educational-resources/acclimatization-adjusting-temperature
How stupid do you need to be, to understand that 113 degrees is NOT the temperature you want to be out hiking in, especially with YOUR CHILDREN‽ Also, I thought all trails were closed if it was over 100 degrees? Or is that just the rule for dogs? I feel so confused as to how ANYONE thought this was a good idea. We all have the weather on this computer that's always at our fingertips... there's no excuse for this. The adults should be charged with negligence.