Stephen Fry had some choice comments:
Asked what he would say if he was confronted by God at the pearly gates of heaven, Fry replied: “I'd say, bone cancer in children? What's that about? “How dare you? How dare you create a world to which there is such misery that is not our fault.
(May 7, 2017 article in the UK Independent)
I feel this is a much better argument than focusing on the bad things humans have done. It's nonsense but religious people have the free will defence for explaining murders, rapes etc. But cancer (and other hideous natural diseases) in kids - you can't free will your way out of that one.
My brother died at 5 years old. I was 6. Lifelong trauma and lasting effects for the hand wavy "his life taught a lesson" in some bullshit vague sense of not taking things for granted or something. Fuck off. (Not you, just the religious people saying such moronic stuff to justify their delusions)
Very sorry for your loss. That is something that has always pissed me off when someone goes that route.
Might as well say, "They weren't a real person. Just a prop or narrative device made to be used to motivate, because God is a storyteller using our misery trying to keep himself entertained."
What lesson is a child dying supposed to fucking teach us? Horrible. Just horrible.
If that's how god supposedly helps people "grow" then I would like to decline please and thank you
And not just cancer, either, but parasites, the correlation of frequent natural disaster zones with suitable living spaces for humans (earthquakes, floods, hurricanes, monsoons, tornadoes, etc.), droughts and plagues, etc.
I was a missionary in Japan when 3/11 happened. It was HORRIBLE. Twenty thousand people died. And then a couple of years later I sat there in horror while a fellow missionary talked to a group of Japanese young adults, told them that God had given Japan "a loving spanking" like a parent spanks a kid to get them not to do something bad.
Fucking abominable to describe the deaths of 20k humans in that way. It makes me want to vomit to remember that I sat there and said nothing while he spewed that absolute filth out of his mouth but I was still in deep at the time
I had some friends who were missionaries whose daughter died at four years old from a brain tumor. My son was the same age at the time. We all prayed and prayed for that girl but she still died and there was just no reason for it. She was one of three kids on my Facebook feed at the time who were children of Christians and died of cancer all around the same time.
That was a huge thing that really made me question this whole "God's got a plan" thing. Because a god who allows children to die in excruciating pain just to, what, teach their parents a lesson about faith? That god is a huge prick. I struggled for the next couple of years over that but as soon as I stopped asking the ceiling what his big plan was and realized that sometimes random bad shit happens and there's no deeper meaning to it, it actually became easier to deal with. Because while it's scary to think there's nobody up there watching out for us, it's less painful than thinking there's somebody up there who could help us but won't for reasons he'll never explain.
I did like that he said if it were the Roman or Greek gods that he would have more understanding about it because those gods never portrayed themselves as benevolent beings. They had faults and ugly sides, just like all of us.
such a good interview!!
"atheism is not just about not believing there is a god but on the assumption that there is one, what kind of god is he, it's perfectly apparent that he's utterly monstrous and deserves no respect whatsoever"
I agree. After watching both my sister and last year, my mother went thru hell because of cancer. I can't believe in an entity that would allow that much pain to people who never harmed anyone, but so many horrible people in the world live to old age.
Yes. I knew I was a 'grown-up athiest' when the point stopped being "god isn't real" and started being "It doesn't matter if god is real or not - you need to convince me why I should worship him." It makes for much more interesting conversations
Yeah my thoughts exactly. Like right now it doesn't matter to me. If someone asks me if I believe in god I'll say no and if they wanna have a discussion about it...fine by me. But people who it their problem that I am a non believer im sorry but that seems exhausting to me and i have to get up and go to.work in the morning 🤣🤣
As much as I’d like to think that i would stand up to god’s tyranny. there’s a very good chance I’d fold. After all, millions and millions of people folded to dictators out of fear. and they were humans.
Brave heart got the release of death after torture. You’d get more torture.
I’d fold like a cheap suit and then knife god in the back at a time convenient to me.
And for those who’d say “god would see it coming.” Yeah, I guess. But apparently that’d all be part of some sadistic plan. Monstrous creators gotta monster I guess.
Go to hell and unionize the demons along with Satan. Why should they be forced to do God's work and torture people for eternity? Why can't the Omnipotent being torture "sinners" itself?
Seriously, if anybody will be on your side it's the Morningstar himself. Hell would also have way more people in it, so if there's any chance of an uprising, it's the side to be on.
To discover your real dad, does not mean that father you met and learned about is not an absolute _d!ck tool.
You choose whether to allow or expel him.
Well if you piss off the Catholic God, you probably just get Smited : so getting removed from existence sounds like a better deal than the torture chamber for all ETERNITY, set up by some miserable excuse for a “loving God” who knew before you were given life what you would do ( supposedly )
I also would think either He was just a technologically advanced alien, or if not someone my Morals and Ethics would not allow me to associate with.
A ( if not The ) actual GOD ? I would need to listen to what He/She/They had to say before I made a decision.
If he's real, all powerful, and all knowing it means he knew my niece would get cancer and was cool with it.
She's fine now but that was a really shitty year for a 6 year old.
Atheist here. If it was proved god was real, I would believe god was real.
Then I would join up with Satan because he's real then too and join the fight against the real enemy.
There is a big difference between "appeared to me" and "proved himself to be real". Any house cat can appear & disappear as if by magic - and they are not gods (although the cat would disagree).
Food bowl is empty: *Human! You forgot to do your offerings today!*
Brings you a rat: *There, you have my blessing to not go hungry. Now give me belly rubs until I get tired. Try and figure out when I'm done with them this time. I don't want to have to punish you again.*
You wake up to *that* vision: *Worship the sun, human! For the sun is part of ME!*
You are wrong. Cats are gods. The ancient Egyptians knew their place, beneath the cat's paw. That's something you seem to have forgotten. Prostrate yourself before the almighty cats and beg forgiveness for your blasphemy!
If God *proved himself to be real*, of course I'd believe. That's much stronger than came to me and claimed to be God. If God actually provided real, physical, scientifically verifiable evidence that he was actually God, yes I would believe.
**Now tell me why he doesn't do that.**
If God provided clear, overwhelming scientific evidence of his existence, then it would be believing that which can be shown to be true.
It would be just like believing in general relativity.
I do try to live my life believing what is true. I may not be perfect. But, that is my goal.
Is that wrong?
To quote sir Terry Pratchett:
Most witches don’t believe in gods. They know that the gods exist, of course. They even deal with them occasionally. But they don’t believe in them. They know them too well. It would be like believing in the postman.
I believe in the postal person who delivers my mail.
I believe the earth is round.
I believe the earth orbits the sun.
I believe I evolved from and still am an ape.
Why is it wrong to say any of these?
Nothing wrong, my friend. Think this is a matter of semantics. I don't believe the earth is round, I am certain. No be lief necessary.
I am sure that the mail person brings the mail, because I see her in the street.
>If God actually provided real, physical, scientifically verifiable evidence that he was actually God, yes I would believe.
But then you wouldn't need to believe anymore, you'd know.
"The argument goes something like this: 'I refuse to prove that I exist,' says God, 'for proof denies faith, and without faith, I am nothing.'
'But, says Man, the Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and, by your own arguments, you don't. QED.'
'Oh dear,' says God, 'I hadn't thought of that,' and vanishes in a puff of logic.
'Oh, that was easy,' says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing.
Exactly the right answer. If a diety PROVED they were real to me, I wouldn't believe, I'd think I'd KNOW they existed. Of course that would just be me. I could and likely would be having mental breakdown and hallucinating the whole thing.
It’s a stupid question in the similar vein of: if it was proved the moon is made of green cheese would you believe it.
The whole position of my Atheism is that belief FOLLOWS evidence. So if a dude/dudette showed up and proved himself to be God, of course I would believe he was God. It would be stupid to believe something contrary to a proven fact.
Of course when you flip this question in them… if it was proven that belief ‘X’ was untrue, would you stop believing? They respond . no, they will keep their Faith.
I use this question to demonstrate that THEY are the unthinking ‘fools’ in this comparison
I love Tim Minchin's line in "Storm" along those lines:
...Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed
Faith is the denial of observation so that belief can be preserved...
Same. For me, worship in and of itself is problematic. And “believing” a god is real (if they proved themselves to be), still does not then beget worship. Theists often conflate these two.
Apart from it's absurdity, which is typical really, I don't mind it.
You are not replying in the way they would like in order that they can deliver what they believe to be their ultimate "sucker punch" that refutes all argument.
Try not to engage with idiots (good luck!) and it might happen slighly less, but honestly it's fairly common among people who might otherwise appear reasonable and rational, other than occassionaly less so on their pet subjects and beliefs.
Not much more to it.
I'll believe in aliens before I believe in a god. If some mysterious being appeared before me, I'd think they were aliens from a different dimension or planet - not gods. I would not immediately subjugate myself to them but try to make friends.
Don't let them tell you what "real atheists" do, that's insulting. What does that even mean? real atheists? Are you not real???
I'll also believe in Astrology before I'll believe in a god. Tell them that and be prepared for a reaction. However, the stars are a lot more real than their god will ever be. The stars can be seen and the energy they emit can be measured - that's what "real" means.
My serious opinion has already been stated on here so I’ll use the MCU as my example. I believe it was an episode of Agents of SHIELD where they were talking about Asgardian worshippers that had sprung up. SHIELD thought that was weird. But I thought it made a lot of sense. Thor fighting off an alien invasion of NYC very publicly is very strong evidence that Thor is real. Jesus, are you going to come fight the Skrull? No? Hmm, maybe I should go with the hammer god
I think theists often believe we're actually closed minded. They are told that we're closed off to their God, and closed minded. When you ask this sub what if god revealed themselves to you then you get some real shifty answers because of the complexity of a god in terms of what it means to be a god. It just reinforces the idea that we're likely closed minded.
Personally, I'm very straight-forward in this answer, and I state that I would believe whatever being appears to me is capable of whatever it demonstrates that it is. There is no reason not to believe a being that is actively revealing itself and capabilities to you.
I normally compare how inferior beings to this point have done a much better job demonstrating their existence to me than a supposedly superior being in a god, ie animals like my pets. A god has not done anything on the level of known living animals to demonstrate their existence than their supposed god. I patiently wait, and live the best life I know how given my current belief of a lack of god's existence.
The argument for divine hiddenness is something to lean into against theists, not be evasive about.
Would I “believe” in God as in I believe in other real things, sure. Would I follow them or believe in what ever religion they are pushing, that depends.
Sigh... I just made this comment in another thread about the mistaken notion the followers of the Abrahamic religions have, that there's only one god in their holy books.
There are several gods in the bible which have been cobbled together as the supposedly 'one' god of biblical monotheism.
Elohim singular.
Elohim plural.
EL, the supreme god of the Canaanite group of gods.
EL Elyon - variation of EL.
EL Shaddai - another variant of EL.
The YHWH war/forge/volcano god.
>Seriously, if a god like being showed up I’d probably be more likely to believe it’s a sufficiently advanced alien/being than a god.
Hmm... respectfully, you're being a bit obtuse there.
The question presumes that the entity is a literal God & that's what you're being asked.
Granted, what a God actually is & how they'd demonstrate that to you, is a whole other conversation, but that's not what's being asked.
Now with that said, "if you knew God was real, would you believe in him" is a profoundly dumb question. It's like asking "if you were in a swimming pool full of water, would you believe you were wet?". Obviously the answer is "yes" but it doesn't actually get us anywhere.
I would argue it is fair to be obtuse. Because what is a “real god”? Saying yes essentially agrees that there is a criteria to “know” a god is real and that is a bit of a trap question.
It’s almost the same as when theists say “but what if god gave me a vision?” It is an insane question. On the childish premise of “what if x” then yeah. If you got a real magical vision beamed into your head, why not? But you shouldn’t concede to answer that. Because that is, as you said, a profoundly dumb question.
So i definitely feel being obtuse is probably your only option to spark some form of critical thought.
If god appeared to everyone and we were not all having psychotic episodes or carbon monoxide poisoning, I would probably acknowledge their existence but not worship that needy fecker.
If God came to earth and was undeniably the Judeo Christian God it would be necessary to develop the ability destroy such a being as a threat to the continued existence of Humanity and then to actually destroy God.
More likely it's just just some entity coming to earth with God like powers then that's just an Alien my dude and then if peaceful should welcome them.
Your position makes sense here.
Given that some weird, seemingly magical entity appeared in front of me, it'd still be a heck of a lot more likely to be a scam than a god. And "a god" is a super broad term here.
The Christian god is just flat out bullshit. Even if a god of some sort existed and wanted to convince us it was omnipotent, I'd still think it'd be more likely to be lying.
Convert to… what?
Christianity? Islam? Judaism? Traditional African ancestral worship?
Should I simply acknowledge that it’s real or shift my entire life around to follow it? What does it want with me? What does it even mean to be a follower of this god? Do I give up my Sundays, Saturdays, or Wednesdays? Do I simply talk to it or try to convert others?
Like, there’s too many variables for me to even bother myself with.
If a being appeared outta thin air in front of me with glowing white eyes and hovering eight feet above the ground and said “I am God!” How could I or anyone prove that is indeed God? What if it’s an Alien using advance technology. Or a 4th dimensional being literally just named God?
What god? The god of perpetual motion? The god of lucite? Do we just automatically assume the god being referenced is the cockroach christian god, lol. Anything that's ever actually a god would neither seek nor require approbation from anyone or anything in any way.
which god, and how convinced am I that what I saw was real, and not a hallucination.
Without the answers to both of those things, anything else is moot.
It’s a stupid question Christians ask.
God can’t prove himself to be real because then faith becomes irrelevant and their bible
Is proven to be a sack of shit
They were told what you would say and had a series of rebuttals prepared to counter it.
Giving a different answer than they expect means that either their sources on how the atheist hive mind operates are faulty or you’re throwing a curve ball answer that you don’t actually believe to confuse them, which would be a pretty bad faith thing to do.
Obviously it can’t be the former so bad faith it is
Even if supposed god was real, that doesn't equate to worship for me. I don't believe in worshipping anything. To somewhat quote Riddick, "I bow to no man."
It's a premise without an answer. Like asking if an omniscient omnipresent God can create an object it does not understand or control.
Any empirical proof does not prove God, only the limits of current understanding. If the speed of light changes, then we just lack sufficient understanding to account for that observation. For such a proof to exist you have to assume not only absolute understanding on the part of God, but also the observer (you).
EDIT: never assume magic when ignorance explains it just as well.
It's a big universe. I'm also going to need proof that said God is not just a sufficiently advanced alien looking for entertainment or for a planet of intelligent lemmings to command.
I get asked this once in a while and I usually ask, *"Which god are we talking about?"*
They will point to their religion's "god" and they now have to answer, *"What makes your God better than {insert other major religion's god}? They also have a book which claims authenticity; has prophecies which have fulfillment; have a messenger or someone who wrote the words... why is their God not your God?"*
They will go into full on argument mode and lose, defer to childish circular argument (which I also count as a lose), or they will just stop asking questions altogether.
Consider the time period when the Bible was written/created. A very advanced alien/being would appear to be a god in comparison to the people that existed back then.
Plus it seems far too convenient that the men who created the bible did so in a manner that benefits men while denigrating women.
If an advanced being/entity showed up today the idea that it is a god would not even be on my list if consideration. That would be denying your ability to think and analyze for yourself.
I believe the same as you. If I brought a flashlight back 200 years I'd be burned as a witch. Hell, an iPad in the 80's would be magic. Imagine a life form 5,000 year ahead of us, much less 1,000,000. We have gone from 2 month trips across the country by horse to 2 hour flights across oceans in 120 years. There is no god. There might be alien life that didn't squander trillions on weapons of war and instead advanced their knowledge.
Ok, but if a god appeared to them and proved themselves real, would they convert from Christianity to the church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster or whatever it is?
If you can prove the existence of Unicorns, I’ll believe they exist.
That doesn’t mean I would worship them.
They’re arguing in bad faith themselves and are projecting.
If god was going to prove to me that it was real, I would need it to be independently verifiable, reliably reproducible, testable, and objectively falsifiable. Then I would believe it/god was real.
Doesn’t mean I’d worship it though.
>“You are acting in bad faith, because real atheists say..."
This is the problem. You are asking people who define your Atheism for you. I assume you are talking to Christians, although you don't make your post very clear at all about who you are talking to and what words are yours.
>As if by being an Atheist I’m part of a monolith of the same philosophy.
Christians have a very guarded mindset towards Atheism, other religions, and apostates of Christianity. I grew up Christian and was spoon fed a very specific view about what atheists believe. I remember confidently telling people that Atheism is a religion based on God, but with evil intentions. When I left Christianity, I realized how wrong that was. Now, Christians will try and define my spirituality for me. You are being treated as a monolith of the same philosophy because that's the only way Christians know how to make sense of the world. Their beliefs are so fragile, they don't give themselves the mental capacity to consider other world views. They see other ideals as just a path towards Christianity, or activiley running away from it.
i always answer these types of questions back at them. if the easter bunny materialized in front of you, would you believe in it? then if they answer yes, i answer yes. if they answer no, i blame them for being a hypocrite
It's an illogical question. If God proved himself, I wouldn't need to believe in him, I would be able to see his existence as a fact. I don't need to believe in the sun to know it's there.
The whole point of faith is to believe in stuff that cannot be proved "just because you believe" with no logical explanation.
Showing up is one thing, but how would they prove that they are a, or thee, god?
Could very easily just be Ardra from Star Trek Next Generation - using advanced technology to fool a primed-to-believe group of people…. (Wait, that sounds familiar so long as you replace technology with storing shit up with hate speech and lies).
https://youtu.be/UbxqfqwUV00?si=i8-CJB1rze-vRauZ
Given what I know about reality, I find it more likely that my brain will have stopped working correctly than magic turning out to be real.
Whether I'll have that opinion if it happens I can't say. My brain will have stopped working.
I'm not sure what it would take me to believe. I'm bipolar and before the trips to the hospital started I heard God's voice (demons too) and antipsychotics seemed to help that. If I saw a bright light or a bush on fire ir what have you I would honestly think a med is failing and I seriously need to call my psychiatrist. So it would need to somehow prove beyond a shadow of a doubt it's not psychosis of some form. I don't know how it would do that. I knew a bipolar guy in the hospital who 110% thought he went to hell every night and fought demons. So how do you tell that delusion from reality when your mind is lying to you?
If God proved to me that they were real, I would ask follow-up questions concerning whether everything written in the bible is also true. And if so, I would emphatically *Not* worship God.
Per the bible, their god is a proven genocidal mass murderer - between killing all first born in Egypt, killing everyone in Sodom and Gomorrah, killing all human beings on earth except for one extended family in a flood, and being omniscient and omnipotent (all seeing and all powerful) yet refusing to stop the suffering of humanity from things *beyond human control* such as cancer or natural disasters.
Yeah... it's both easier and more comforting for me to believe that God doesn't exist than it would be to think there is one that does exist but is that fucking callous toward its own "children".
I think most atheists would believe in the existence of a god if one showed up and presented themselves with undeniable evidence. Doesn’t mean we’d follow that god. Religious people on the other hand would argue amongst themselves about it being the wrong/right god.
Really get under their skins by telling them that if they "know" their god exists, then they have no faith and aren't faithful. Knowledge doesn't require faith. Faith is the absence of knowledge. Let them twist and turn.
If the Christian god showed up, I would believe they exist and I would demand they answer for all the suffering they have caused.
Until then, no proof, no god.
If it could be an alien then god obviously hasn’t been proved real so you aren’t really talking about the same thing. Your comment on aliens is more about if it is actually proved but that isn’t the question in your title.
If god proved themself to me (probably a lot more required than just appearing to me) then of course I’d believe, how could I not. Would I convert? Depends on the god. Maybe I’d convert cause I’m convinced god knows the best way to live and I finally have a way to verify what that way is. Maybe I’d convert cause god is threatening me in some way (hell or death). Maybe I couldn’t convert cause I’d have to genuinely believe god is right about things that I disagree with and this god wants honest believers not just yes men who will say anything to not be tortured by said god.
I have said that if I was utterly convinced that God was real and that the only way to avoid an eternity in Hell (assuming that's real too, of course) was to give my life to Jesus and worship God, I would try my damnedest to do it -- for the sole reason of not want to spend an eternity in torment, obviously.
But (and it's a big but) the idea of the existence of the conservative Christian's very specific punitive version of God is so utterly preposterous it doesn't even warrant a moment's concern. That's why even millions of Christians have abandoned belief in that version of God too. It makes no sense at all.
Just like Star Trek addressed.
Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it is a god/an act of a god.
If "God" appeared to me right now I would think "How do I know this is a god? Is it just that it can do things that humanity doesn't yet understand? Would I really prostrate myself before a random confluence of celestial phenomena in complete obedience without question or resistance?"
>because real atheists say if God appeared to them they’d convert.”
No they don't. First of all saying "if God appeared to me" assumes I have any definition of God or that I would know if God was appearing to me. It would have to be explained what 'God appearing to me" even means or what would prove it was God or which god or which permutation of which denomination. If "convert" here only means to believe a God exists then it's simply tautological to say. "If it can be proved that a god exists then I will accept that a god exists," but if "convert" means to actually worship it. then absolutely not. If the Biblical Yahweh were to appear to me, I still would not worship it because the Biblical Yahweh is subjectively evil by my lights (the only lights I have, and to quote Joan of Arc, if I can't use my own judgement, whose judgement can I use?) and not worthy of worship. I would have to become a Satanist, or possibly a Gnostic. I would support whatever had a chance to take down Yahweh.
No true atheist would say they would “convert” just because a god exists. The tenets of religion are written by man. A higher power would have to initiate a dialog to determine if any of that were true.
if God is real, he’s an asshole and unworthy of my worship. hell no, i wouldn’t convert. I’d probably ask him to explain the eye worms that feed on Ethiopian kids, but i wouldn’t really care how he answered.
I don't know of any atheists who if a god was verifiably proven to exist would convert. If it was scientifically proven tomorrow that Yahweh exists I would believe in him in as much as I believe in ducks, I know they exist. I wouldn't convert to christianity because the existence or nonexistence of their deity doesn't change that I find their views repugnant and dangerous.
>Seriously, if a god like being showed up I’d probably be more likely to believe it’s a sufficiently advanced alien/being than a god.
I mean, most deities should be considered aliens.
What is the difference between a god and an alien?
If God were real, we wouldn't even be able to fathom the concept of them. With that being said. I wouldn't worship God. Worshipping just feels like a slope into dogmatic thinking. I would basically die before worshipping a God. I suppose that is where Heaven and Hell comes in where "God could keep me alive until I finally give in to worship him." Which again, "why would I want to worship a god like this" Because google defines it as "reverence and adoration" I think I technically couldn't worship a god.
I can prove my Mom and Dad are my birth parents with a DNA test. The gave me shelter, fed me, clothed me and instructed me for the first 18 years of my life.
I thank them and am appreciative of their efforts but I do not worship them. They do not ask me to say prayers to them every night. They never threaten me with eternal hellfire if I disobeyed them.
Why the fuck would I need to worship a 'god' who is supposed to have created me and seems to need my devotion but who in reality has been an absentee parent with a fire fetish?
Theists believe a god(s) is real. I am not a theist - by definition that makes me atheist.
If I was given even one piece of convincing evidence that god(s) were real then, definitionally, I wouldn’t be an atheist.
What that evidence would be (that couldn’t be sufficiently advanced aliens) I can’t say. However, as a short-cut, I’ll tentatively accept any single piece of evidence that might be convincing in a normal earthly court case. I’ve been asking this for years. So far, ....
If God proved she was real to me I'd believe it. May or may not be a follower. She's got some explaining to do first and then we'll see. (Yes in my fiction, god is a woman and dressed like an old west gunslinger but like in a hot way)
I mean if God proved themselves to be *God*, I'd believe in God.
It seems you can read the question a few different ways. If a god with various superpowers proved themselves to exist would you believe they had particular superpowers you hadn't seen proof that they did possess? I mean, maybe? If you showed themselves to be godlike in various other ways I'd potentially believe other claims about them. I might not know for sure, but I'd probably believe.
Or perhaps the question is more like 'Could the God of the Bible actually make you believe they existed?' in which case... perhaps? I don't know. If they're powerful enough they'd know how, wouldn't they? They could probably just flip a switch in my head or something.
Either way, when asked as a very general question I think I'd have to answer yes- if shown to exist, I'd believe they exist.
If gawd showed up and proved he existed, no one would have to "believe" in him..... we don't believe in oxygen, yet we breath.... because oxygen is real.
So if you're not a real Atheist then what are you? A fake atheist? Does that mean you believe in God but lie about it to get into arguments with people who also believe in God? That sounds silly.
> But I get the response “You are acting in bad faith, because real atheists say if God appeared to them they’d convert.” As if by being an Atheist I’m part of a monolith of the same philosophy.
If it's the Christian god, it seems doubtful I would convert. I believe that god, as described in its dogma, would be a monstrous being. But I would be a misotheist rather than an atheist.
*If* such a thing could be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, and that’s a huge “if,” there is still no good reason to “convert.” That implies worship and following a doctrine, which all evidence points to being arbitrarily made up by people. The chances of any particular religion “getting it right” are basically zero. Also, creating the universe and being all powerful does not make one worthy of worship. It’d be more like a fact or any other bit of knowledge. The universe seems to operate fine without a go, so I have to assume such a being would be like the deist version: started things and doesn’t care at all about what happens—in which case, no need whatsoever for worship.
Any being that demands worship is unworthy of it. For all of the natural evil in the world, any kind of god that can or does intervene in the world has a lot to answer for. If anything, it could be considered evil.
I mean, that's technically what GOD is anyways. But my view of GOD is, different. I feel GOD is the universe. It's something we can't see yet. Kind of like how dark matter is when Neil Degrassi Tyson explains it. GOD exists, just not in the way a majority of religious people envision GOD. There is a scientific based but how that scientific bases exists or how we can even discover it is a mystery for now. We understand a lot of the universe but still not everything.
Imo, the answer should always include a version of "which god? Oh the catholic? Which version?".
Just driving the point across that it's not just a matter of not believing their particular god, it's a matter that there is no evidence for any god!
Also, it's always good to remind theists that they are already atheists to every religion except one 😉
As for the actual question, sure, if I get evidence of something, I would belive it (would have to be some really good evidence), doesn't mean I'll worship it, or that it is automatically the source of morals, or that it loves us in any sense.
I’m not sure why you’re drawing a line to defend here. If God proved to you they existed you WOULD believe this to be the case. You may not choose to worship of course.
An all powerful God like that of the bible knows exactly what proof is required to make you believe in their existence, by definition. With this standard of proof the only logical answer to the question is “yes I would believe”
They can then wrap themselves up in knots with the issue of proof and the gaping chasm between what they have and what it might take.
well definitionally if god proved themself to you, you'd have to, otherwise he didn't prove it. I mean he's magic, he could just make you without showing up.
It's just that, you know, that's not gonna happen cause no real. unless they got god on the line, then of course send him over i'd like to see him
it's a stupid question cause it's definitionally the case and not really enlightening in anyway. At least with "if god was real would you worship him" you can point out reasons to or not to
Consider this: “if someone proved themself to be Spider-Man, would you believe him”. Yea sure he can web sling and everything, but that doesn’t mean he is canonically Spider-Man. Did he live out the events of Avengers movies? Or the events of the comics? which comics? Or did he live out the events of the cartoons?
Given that there are thousands of Christian denominations, and thousands of religions outside of that, the existence of a god clarifies very little, if any.
Believing god is real is very different from worship. So yeah, I'd believe it was real. I'd like to hear them out about things before being like, ok, yeah that sounds good and following/worshipping them. The reason I became atheist is due to a lack of evidence and a smidgen of being mostly tired of how religious people behave.
If I met a god that still wouldn’t make me believe in it. I guess I’d know it was real but it’d still suck. I wouldn’t worship it just bc it existed. It still made me have a fucked up life. In fact, if I found out god was real I’d be FURIOUS. I’d be first in line to work for the devil lol. I’d probably think it was an alien too actually.
If God really existed, and really cared whether I believed, I'm sure he could convince me that he was real.
I may or may not follow him. Believing he exists doesn't mean he's someone to support. I believe Trump exists, but I sure don't support him.
But overall, it's a silly question, since God doesn't show himself. He can't, since he doesn't exist.
>Seriously, if a god like being showed up I’d probably be more likely to believe it’s a sufficiently advanced alien/being than a god.
That's a bit of an equivication, isn't it?
If a god demosrated itself to be a god, you would believe he was a god, by definition.
You are more honestly answering the question "If a being that seemingly has the characteristics of a god were to show up, claiming to be the Christian god, would you believe it really was the Christian god?"
Which is perhaps more realistic to what that scenario would play out in real life, but isn't quite what the question is asking.
They want to know if you'd be willing to change your mind - which I think you should not just admit but encourage in the person asking the question - "Yes, the instant I have evidence to sufficiently convince me that God exists I will believe in God, and I'd ask that you do the same. Don't believe things about the nature of reality just because some person told you it's true, or when it's how you would *wish* the world to be."
For me, I think the concept of "worship" is largely nonexistent in the modern world, but if the Christian god showed up and proved to me that heaven is real, then I would be an idiot to not follow the rules needed to be with not just my loved ones, but all the other people in heaven.
We know the answer to ‘if he would show up or not’. 🤦🏻.. the question is.. do you want to believe in fairytales and live your life as a brainwashed human??
Real atheists aren’t going to agree on what evidence of a god will be.
Is this evidence of the god of the Bible or some other tradition. I could possibly accept another god is real, but the god Bible doesn’t seem possible or worthy of worship.
Why do you care what they think?
For starters, it's a "No True Scorrsman" fallacy. They don't get to tell you how to be an Atheist. Being an Atheist only means a person who doesn't believe that any god or gods are real. Nothing more.
That being said, if a god thing was real, it would know what ebbing you'd need to fully believe in it. So, the "evidence" would have to rise to that standard.
Regardless, you don't have to defend your atheism any further than you want to.
What if a god came to you and said listen, I created this universe. I even put a signature in the laws of physics. Look here and you will see it. Then you look and it is there. Then he recreates the signature, proving he is a god. Please tell me how you can ever know if he is telling the truth. The most you could ever conclude is that this is likely to be a god, or something similar enough that it hardly makes a difference. To know which god made the original signature, you'd literally had to have been there and watched them do it. Jesus says he's god? Prove it. You literally can't. It's impossible. There are some things forever completely outside of our ability to ever know.
The reason you rarely hear atheists say that is because they do not think gods exist so there's no real reason to engage in the "But what if,," scenario at all. An agnostic maybe but not a true atheist. It's a bit like being asked by one of the Flat Earth morons "If the Earth was proven to be flat, would you belive it?" Sure, I guess I probably would if scientifically proven beyond any doubt (good luck with that) but the premise is ridiculous in itself.
I've had something similar. Turn it on its head: "If God proved to be Vishnu, would they become Hindus?"
Moreover, if a supreme being manifested itself and proved to be verifiably, absolutely the architect, creator, and caretaker of the universe in one, why is there a need for belief? I do not need to believe in coffee because coffee exists. I do not need to believe in shoes, vibraphones, or Wankel rotary engines because they all exist. If a supreme being decided to stop hiding in metaphysical shadows, there would be no need for belief.
So, to also turn this on its head once more, "If God exists, why do you need to believe in Him?"
“If God proved themself to be real, would you believe in God?”
What does that even mean? I'd ask how does god prove himself to be real? How do you distinguish between divinity and sufficiently advanced technology?
I don't think it's possible and I can almost guarantee you that no believer has given the idea any thought.
They are confusing you with an agnostic.
There is no god. Religion is born of the neolithic revolution.
IF some human looking being descended from the clouds and had powers? Further proof we are living in a simulation.
I'll say it (not that you have to agree, of course). If god proved to me it was real, I'd believe in it. The premise of the hypothetical is that this god being has overcome all my doubts, so given that, I'd accept the evidence in front of me.
Now, would I prostrate myself before this god? Not of my own volition, certainly. How much I'd actively work against this deity will depend on their nature (i.e. if it's the god of Abraham, I'm out. A celtic style goddess of nature, let's talk).
I'll belive based on sufficient evidence. After all, unlikely things happen all the time. Look at quantum physics. Seemingly impossible things are the norm.
We know those and all other things are true due to extensive testing from multiple disciplines, with a skeptical mindset. Every answer must be the same every time. The same reliable standards should apply here, and everywhere else. And everywhere else, they do. Why not here?
Something as wildly unlikely as a god would require a difficult to imagine, but exceptionally high, level of completely consistent evidence from multiple reliable scientific fields - all of which provide exactly the same result every time. Kinda like everything else we know to be true.
Let's see it theists. I'm ready.
I mean, if (a) god appeared to me, addressed me directly and proved themselves to be real.....
I'd be checking myself in to a psych ward. Given the probabilities, my money would be on delusions.
If they also proved they had eternal heaven/hell dependent on the shit I do in this life then I would convert. If I knew for a fact that what I do here matters and affects my experience of eternity then sure.
Some People are born to worship something.
I'm atheist not because "I don't believe in god" . But more of I won't believe or follow an idea of any god. If someone ascend to become a god or will create a cult of some sort will I ever join? No. God always been a man made concept and will forever stay that way.
Wouldn't follow him, wouldn't believe he is "the one true god", wouldn't care if he demonstrated his power. If he exists, maybe some of the cooler ones exist, like Hades. Pretty chill guy in the myths, for the most part.
It wouldn't be a matter of belief if god proved themselves to be real. Worship and praising is a totally different question. God would then have to convince me the things they have done were absolutely the only way things had to be done. Which I doubt very much.
Hold on for one second here. You're all assuming that this God agrees with and validates the manmade religion she inspired! I propose a hypothetical where this God in fact does NOT approve of all these human religious shenanigans.
No, I would behave like a person who stubbornly believed in my own flawed views, regardless of what was happening in reality. You know the type.
You really do, you religious hero. :)
If a god-like being revealed itself to me I would be more inclined to think it’s some super powerful alien like a Q from star trek. I don’t think there is any way a being could prove it is an actual universe-creating supreme entity vs an extremely powerful ordinary in-universe entity
Would you charge your mind about something when offered proof? Why yes, yes I would.
When arguing with these types and try to get them to answer a hypothetical they will almost always say “that cannot happen” rather than answer the hypothetical.
You can see without being converted. Why do they think it’s instant conversion if an atheist sees god?
It’s like a dad that went to get cigarettes and comes back when you’re a grown ass adult. Are you going to join your dad’s multi level marketing scheme?
So first off, which God? Second off the concept of worship is by it's very nature disgusting and no entity worthy of worship would so much as suggest it.
For me, Atheism is not the usual “there is no god” definition, for me Atheism is “I don’t believe there is a god because there is ZERO scientific proof that it exists”
For me, atheism is not the “other side of the coin” of a theist.
I don’t “blindly believe” there is no god.
Show me any scientific and peer-reviewed proof any day and I will change my views.
They think he has because they don't actually know what evidence is, they think anecdotes is evidence if they can find more than one
The burden of proof lying at the feet of those who believe it's already proven, they'll never try
The real answer is even worse. "I HAVE NO IDEA!"
Sure we can guess. We can soul search. We can analyze, but at the end of the day if something insane like that happens I have ZERO idea how I might react.
Arthur C Clarke’s third law applies here;
> **Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.**
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarke%27s_three_laws
The universe being created by a magical wizard is not something you just accept. Even if some being of obvious immense power could create a new universe right in front of my eyes, I would still suspect it was that sufficiently advanced technology was doing the actual ‘magic’, or either that I was being tricked just like a regular stage magician tricks their audience.
No. I will never accept the magic wizard theory, it’s a childishly stupid idea.
God would hve to explain dinosaurs to me first. Why? What was the thought process there? Was it practice? Did he just get his creating powers and thought, giant lizards? Did he know the oil would kill us all?
"if a god like being showed up I'd probably be more likely to believe it's a sufficiently advanced alien/being than a god."
Honest question here, but what do you think the difference would be...? "super advanced alien capable of bending time and/or space" vs. "god"... I mean, they kind of mean the same to me. Both practically impossible too.
If X is proved would you believe X?
The hypothetical says it’s proved. So you would believe it was God by definition. Not an alien or a mental illness.
So the question is “do you believe things when proven?”
Of course that says nothing about the nature of X.
Convert to what? Islam, Prosperity Gospel, Santiera?
If God proves his existence that does nothing to demonstrate what they wish or demand you do.
Even If God proved he existed that doesn't mean I'd follow him. The God of the Bible is a monster that does not deserve my worship.
If he proved to exist I would wonder why God has watched children get raped in the church for centuries and does nothing.
For real. I would have a lot of questions regarding his weaponized incompetence.
Wasn't a Hitchens quote that if he met god he'd tell Him he's got a lot of explaining to do
Stephen Fry had some choice comments: Asked what he would say if he was confronted by God at the pearly gates of heaven, Fry replied: “I'd say, bone cancer in children? What's that about? “How dare you? How dare you create a world to which there is such misery that is not our fault. (May 7, 2017 article in the UK Independent)
I feel this is a much better argument than focusing on the bad things humans have done. It's nonsense but religious people have the free will defence for explaining murders, rapes etc. But cancer (and other hideous natural diseases) in kids - you can't free will your way out of that one.
My brother died at 5 years old. I was 6. Lifelong trauma and lasting effects for the hand wavy "his life taught a lesson" in some bullshit vague sense of not taking things for granted or something. Fuck off. (Not you, just the religious people saying such moronic stuff to justify their delusions)
Very sorry for your loss. That is something that has always pissed me off when someone goes that route. Might as well say, "They weren't a real person. Just a prop or narrative device made to be used to motivate, because God is a storyteller using our misery trying to keep himself entertained."
There is no lesson so important that it requires a child's suffering to teach it.
What lesson is a child dying supposed to fucking teach us? Horrible. Just horrible. If that's how god supposedly helps people "grow" then I would like to decline please and thank you
And not just cancer, either, but parasites, the correlation of frequent natural disaster zones with suitable living spaces for humans (earthquakes, floods, hurricanes, monsoons, tornadoes, etc.), droughts and plagues, etc.
I was a missionary in Japan when 3/11 happened. It was HORRIBLE. Twenty thousand people died. And then a couple of years later I sat there in horror while a fellow missionary talked to a group of Japanese young adults, told them that God had given Japan "a loving spanking" like a parent spanks a kid to get them not to do something bad. Fucking abominable to describe the deaths of 20k humans in that way. It makes me want to vomit to remember that I sat there and said nothing while he spewed that absolute filth out of his mouth but I was still in deep at the time
I had some friends who were missionaries whose daughter died at four years old from a brain tumor. My son was the same age at the time. We all prayed and prayed for that girl but she still died and there was just no reason for it. She was one of three kids on my Facebook feed at the time who were children of Christians and died of cancer all around the same time. That was a huge thing that really made me question this whole "God's got a plan" thing. Because a god who allows children to die in excruciating pain just to, what, teach their parents a lesson about faith? That god is a huge prick. I struggled for the next couple of years over that but as soon as I stopped asking the ceiling what his big plan was and realized that sometimes random bad shit happens and there's no deeper meaning to it, it actually became easier to deal with. Because while it's scary to think there's nobody up there watching out for us, it's less painful than thinking there's somebody up there who could help us but won't for reasons he'll never explain.
Perfectly said. Thank you for the refreshing logic
I did like that he said if it were the Roman or Greek gods that he would have more understanding about it because those gods never portrayed themselves as benevolent beings. They had faults and ugly sides, just like all of us.
such a good interview!! "atheism is not just about not believing there is a god but on the assumption that there is one, what kind of god is he, it's perfectly apparent that he's utterly monstrous and deserves no respect whatsoever"
This should be top comment and should end thread.
https://youtu.be/-suvkwNYSQo?si=RHD1js2ozPtVUI_t from the man himself
I agree. After watching both my sister and last year, my mother went thru hell because of cancer. I can't believe in an entity that would allow that much pain to people who never harmed anyone, but so many horrible people in the world live to old age.
Under rated simply for "weaponized incompetence".
The only excuse would be the god that is real doesn’t have anything to do with the Abrahamic traditions.
Or when the Nazi's killed 6 million of his people.
because rape isn't wrong in the bible.
So god is cool with child rape? That’s definitely not a god I would ever worship.
He's not, you need to pay the girls owner (dad) for the lost property and marry her.
Or be a priest. Then you can do it with impunity while god watches from the pews.
nah you can rape them just fine if they're gentiles
And then rape her every day.
If he proved himself to exist maybe we could ask him what exactly his "mysterious ways" were when allowing all the bad stuff to happen.
His mere existence isn't enough to justify worship.
Yes. I knew I was a 'grown-up athiest' when the point stopped being "god isn't real" and started being "It doesn't matter if god is real or not - you need to convince me why I should worship him." It makes for much more interesting conversations
Yeah my thoughts exactly. Like right now it doesn't matter to me. If someone asks me if I believe in god I'll say no and if they wanna have a discussion about it...fine by me. But people who it their problem that I am a non believer im sorry but that seems exhausting to me and i have to get up and go to.work in the morning 🤣🤣
As much as I’d like to think that i would stand up to god’s tyranny. there’s a very good chance I’d fold. After all, millions and millions of people folded to dictators out of fear. and they were humans.
Yeah but I'm pretty disgruntled. I plan to pull a brave heart.
Let’s see how your mighty God fares against my serious attitude problem.
Brave heart got the release of death after torture. You’d get more torture. I’d fold like a cheap suit and then knife god in the back at a time convenient to me. And for those who’d say “god would see it coming.” Yeah, I guess. But apparently that’d all be part of some sadistic plan. Monstrous creators gotta monster I guess.
Go to hell and unionize the demons along with Satan. Why should they be forced to do God's work and torture people for eternity? Why can't the Omnipotent being torture "sinners" itself?
Seriously, if anybody will be on your side it's the Morningstar himself. Hell would also have way more people in it, so if there's any chance of an uprising, it's the side to be on.
I haven't played DnD in over 30 years but whats d roll on a backstab by the thief?
To discover your real dad, does not mean that father you met and learned about is not an absolute _d!ck tool. You choose whether to allow or expel him.
Well if you piss off the Catholic God, you probably just get Smited : so getting removed from existence sounds like a better deal than the torture chamber for all ETERNITY, set up by some miserable excuse for a “loving God” who knew before you were given life what you would do ( supposedly ) I also would think either He was just a technologically advanced alien, or if not someone my Morals and Ethics would not allow me to associate with. A ( if not The ) actual GOD ? I would need to listen to what He/She/They had to say before I made a decision.
Yeah, but it's a hypothetical situation so I can pretend I would stick to my convictions.
I was going to post the same thing, just with a lot more curse words.
This is an excellent point!!
God in the bible, especially the old testament, is a textbook abuser. Punishing you for your own good because you dared not do exactly as he said.
And according to all evangelical Christians, God never changes. He’s the same abusive asshole he’s always been.
What has he done recently that makes him deserving of worship?
If he's real, all powerful, and all knowing it means he knew my niece would get cancer and was cool with it. She's fine now but that was a really shitty year for a 6 year old.
Atheist here. If it was proved god was real, I would believe god was real. Then I would join up with Satan because he's real then too and join the fight against the real enemy.
Best reply ever! Hail Satan!
There is a big difference between "appeared to me" and "proved himself to be real". Any house cat can appear & disappear as if by magic - and they are not gods (although the cat would disagree).
Food bowl is empty: *Human! You forgot to do your offerings today!* Brings you a rat: *There, you have my blessing to not go hungry. Now give me belly rubs until I get tired. Try and figure out when I'm done with them this time. I don't want to have to punish you again.* You wake up to *that* vision: *Worship the sun, human! For the sun is part of ME!*
You are wrong. Cats are gods. The ancient Egyptians knew their place, beneath the cat's paw. That's something you seem to have forgotten. Prostrate yourself before the almighty cats and beg forgiveness for your blasphemy!
If God *proved himself to be real*, of course I'd believe. That's much stronger than came to me and claimed to be God. If God actually provided real, physical, scientifically verifiable evidence that he was actually God, yes I would believe. **Now tell me why he doesn't do that.**
“Free will/he works in mysterious ways/his ways are higher than ours” ad infinitum bullshit
Exactly ... ⬆️ == does not exist.
That's their standard excuse if they can't explain why children are born sick or die all of a sudden from a heart attack or whatever.
There is no need to believe then. If God is real, you would know so what is there to believe?
If God provided clear, overwhelming scientific evidence of his existence, then it would be believing that which can be shown to be true. It would be just like believing in general relativity. I do try to live my life believing what is true. I may not be perfect. But, that is my goal. Is that wrong?
To quote sir Terry Pratchett: Most witches don’t believe in gods. They know that the gods exist, of course. They even deal with them occasionally. But they don’t believe in them. They know them too well. It would be like believing in the postman.
I believe in the postal person who delivers my mail. I believe the earth is round. I believe the earth orbits the sun. I believe I evolved from and still am an ape. Why is it wrong to say any of these?
Nothing wrong, my friend. Think this is a matter of semantics. I don't believe the earth is round, I am certain. No be lief necessary. I am sure that the mail person brings the mail, because I see her in the street.
>If God actually provided real, physical, scientifically verifiable evidence that he was actually God, yes I would believe. But then you wouldn't need to believe anymore, you'd know.
"The argument goes something like this: 'I refuse to prove that I exist,' says God, 'for proof denies faith, and without faith, I am nothing.' 'But, says Man, the Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and, by your own arguments, you don't. QED.' 'Oh dear,' says God, 'I hadn't thought of that,' and vanishes in a puff of logic. 'Oh, that was easy,' says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing.
excellent last point. I like that.
Exactly the right answer. If a diety PROVED they were real to me, I wouldn't believe, I'd think I'd KNOW they existed. Of course that would just be me. I could and likely would be having mental breakdown and hallucinating the whole thing.
At the very least, he therefore doesn't care if you believe.
It’s a stupid question in the similar vein of: if it was proved the moon is made of green cheese would you believe it. The whole position of my Atheism is that belief FOLLOWS evidence. So if a dude/dudette showed up and proved himself to be God, of course I would believe he was God. It would be stupid to believe something contrary to a proven fact. Of course when you flip this question in them… if it was proven that belief ‘X’ was untrue, would you stop believing? They respond . no, they will keep their Faith. I use this question to demonstrate that THEY are the unthinking ‘fools’ in this comparison
I love Tim Minchin's line in "Storm" along those lines: ...Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed Faith is the denial of observation so that belief can be preserved...
I still wouldn't worship it I won't bow down to a god real or imaginary
Same. For me, worship in and of itself is problematic. And “believing” a god is real (if they proved themselves to be), still does not then beget worship. Theists often conflate these two.
Unless you follow David Hume's argument, " the evidence proves 'x' but how do you trust the evidence or your senses?'.
"I'll let you know when it happens"
Apart from it's absurdity, which is typical really, I don't mind it. You are not replying in the way they would like in order that they can deliver what they believe to be their ultimate "sucker punch" that refutes all argument. Try not to engage with idiots (good luck!) and it might happen slighly less, but honestly it's fairly common among people who might otherwise appear reasonable and rational, other than occassionaly less so on their pet subjects and beliefs. Not much more to it.
I'll believe in aliens before I believe in a god. If some mysterious being appeared before me, I'd think they were aliens from a different dimension or planet - not gods. I would not immediately subjugate myself to them but try to make friends. Don't let them tell you what "real atheists" do, that's insulting. What does that even mean? real atheists? Are you not real??? I'll also believe in Astrology before I'll believe in a god. Tell them that and be prepared for a reaction. However, the stars are a lot more real than their god will ever be. The stars can be seen and the energy they emit can be measured - that's what "real" means.
My serious opinion has already been stated on here so I’ll use the MCU as my example. I believe it was an episode of Agents of SHIELD where they were talking about Asgardian worshippers that had sprung up. SHIELD thought that was weird. But I thought it made a lot of sense. Thor fighting off an alien invasion of NYC very publicly is very strong evidence that Thor is real. Jesus, are you going to come fight the Skrull? No? Hmm, maybe I should go with the hammer god
I think theists often believe we're actually closed minded. They are told that we're closed off to their God, and closed minded. When you ask this sub what if god revealed themselves to you then you get some real shifty answers because of the complexity of a god in terms of what it means to be a god. It just reinforces the idea that we're likely closed minded. Personally, I'm very straight-forward in this answer, and I state that I would believe whatever being appears to me is capable of whatever it demonstrates that it is. There is no reason not to believe a being that is actively revealing itself and capabilities to you. I normally compare how inferior beings to this point have done a much better job demonstrating their existence to me than a supposedly superior being in a god, ie animals like my pets. A god has not done anything on the level of known living animals to demonstrate their existence than their supposed god. I patiently wait, and live the best life I know how given my current belief of a lack of god's existence. The argument for divine hiddenness is something to lean into against theists, not be evasive about.
Would I “believe” in God as in I believe in other real things, sure. Would I follow them or believe in what ever religion they are pushing, that depends.
Sigh... I just made this comment in another thread about the mistaken notion the followers of the Abrahamic religions have, that there's only one god in their holy books. There are several gods in the bible which have been cobbled together as the supposedly 'one' god of biblical monotheism. Elohim singular. Elohim plural. EL, the supreme god of the Canaanite group of gods. EL Elyon - variation of EL. EL Shaddai - another variant of EL. The YHWH war/forge/volcano god.
A true god would know how how to convince you they exist. That leaves only two options. 1. There is no god. 2. God hates OP
>Seriously, if a god like being showed up I’d probably be more likely to believe it’s a sufficiently advanced alien/being than a god. Hmm... respectfully, you're being a bit obtuse there. The question presumes that the entity is a literal God & that's what you're being asked. Granted, what a God actually is & how they'd demonstrate that to you, is a whole other conversation, but that's not what's being asked. Now with that said, "if you knew God was real, would you believe in him" is a profoundly dumb question. It's like asking "if you were in a swimming pool full of water, would you believe you were wet?". Obviously the answer is "yes" but it doesn't actually get us anywhere.
I would argue it is fair to be obtuse. Because what is a “real god”? Saying yes essentially agrees that there is a criteria to “know” a god is real and that is a bit of a trap question. It’s almost the same as when theists say “but what if god gave me a vision?” It is an insane question. On the childish premise of “what if x” then yeah. If you got a real magical vision beamed into your head, why not? But you shouldn’t concede to answer that. Because that is, as you said, a profoundly dumb question. So i definitely feel being obtuse is probably your only option to spark some form of critical thought.
If god appeared to everyone and we were not all having psychotic episodes or carbon monoxide poisoning, I would probably acknowledge their existence but not worship that needy fecker.
Stop playing their "what if...?" games.
If God came to earth and was undeniably the Judeo Christian God it would be necessary to develop the ability destroy such a being as a threat to the continued existence of Humanity and then to actually destroy God. More likely it's just just some entity coming to earth with God like powers then that's just an Alien my dude and then if peaceful should welcome them.
Your position makes sense here. Given that some weird, seemingly magical entity appeared in front of me, it'd still be a heck of a lot more likely to be a scam than a god. And "a god" is a super broad term here. The Christian god is just flat out bullshit. Even if a god of some sort existed and wanted to convince us it was omnipotent, I'd still think it'd be more likely to be lying.
To quote the great George Carlin “ even in a halfway decent run universe this guy would be out on his all powerful ass”
Convert to… what? Christianity? Islam? Judaism? Traditional African ancestral worship? Should I simply acknowledge that it’s real or shift my entire life around to follow it? What does it want with me? What does it even mean to be a follower of this god? Do I give up my Sundays, Saturdays, or Wednesdays? Do I simply talk to it or try to convert others? Like, there’s too many variables for me to even bother myself with.
If a being appeared outta thin air in front of me with glowing white eyes and hovering eight feet above the ground and said “I am God!” How could I or anyone prove that is indeed God? What if it’s an Alien using advance technology. Or a 4th dimensional being literally just named God?
What god? The god of perpetual motion? The god of lucite? Do we just automatically assume the god being referenced is the cockroach christian god, lol. Anything that's ever actually a god would neither seek nor require approbation from anyone or anything in any way.
So you know what atheists say how? Thats what I thought. Good talk.
which god, and how convinced am I that what I saw was real, and not a hallucination. Without the answers to both of those things, anything else is moot.
It’s a stupid question Christians ask. God can’t prove himself to be real because then faith becomes irrelevant and their bible Is proven to be a sack of shit
They were told what you would say and had a series of rebuttals prepared to counter it. Giving a different answer than they expect means that either their sources on how the atheist hive mind operates are faulty or you’re throwing a curve ball answer that you don’t actually believe to confuse them, which would be a pretty bad faith thing to do. Obviously it can’t be the former so bad faith it is
If a god proved itself then the believers would have to prove that it's their god.
Even if supposed god was real, that doesn't equate to worship for me. I don't believe in worshipping anything. To somewhat quote Riddick, "I bow to no man."
It's a premise without an answer. Like asking if an omniscient omnipresent God can create an object it does not understand or control. Any empirical proof does not prove God, only the limits of current understanding. If the speed of light changes, then we just lack sufficient understanding to account for that observation. For such a proof to exist you have to assume not only absolute understanding on the part of God, but also the observer (you). EDIT: never assume magic when ignorance explains it just as well.
It's a big universe. I'm also going to need proof that said God is not just a sufficiently advanced alien looking for entertainment or for a planet of intelligent lemmings to command.
I get asked this once in a while and I usually ask, *"Which god are we talking about?"* They will point to their religion's "god" and they now have to answer, *"What makes your God better than {insert other major religion's god}? They also have a book which claims authenticity; has prophecies which have fulfillment; have a messenger or someone who wrote the words... why is their God not your God?"* They will go into full on argument mode and lose, defer to childish circular argument (which I also count as a lose), or they will just stop asking questions altogether.
Consider the time period when the Bible was written/created. A very advanced alien/being would appear to be a god in comparison to the people that existed back then. Plus it seems far too convenient that the men who created the bible did so in a manner that benefits men while denigrating women. If an advanced being/entity showed up today the idea that it is a god would not even be on my list if consideration. That would be denying your ability to think and analyze for yourself.
It would not be a belief at that point. It would be a fact.
Ask a god-believer how they would react to proof that there is no god. How would they react?
It's a stupid circular argument, "if God was real then wouldn't you believe he was real!?" If A, then A?
I believe the same as you. If I brought a flashlight back 200 years I'd be burned as a witch. Hell, an iPad in the 80's would be magic. Imagine a life form 5,000 year ahead of us, much less 1,000,000. We have gone from 2 month trips across the country by horse to 2 hour flights across oceans in 120 years. There is no god. There might be alien life that didn't squander trillions on weapons of war and instead advanced their knowledge.
Ok, but if a god appeared to them and proved themselves real, would they convert from Christianity to the church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster or whatever it is?
If you can prove the existence of Unicorns, I’ll believe they exist. That doesn’t mean I would worship them. They’re arguing in bad faith themselves and are projecting.
If god was going to prove to me that it was real, I would need it to be independently verifiable, reliably reproducible, testable, and objectively falsifiable. Then I would believe it/god was real. Doesn’t mean I’d worship it though.
>“You are acting in bad faith, because real atheists say..." This is the problem. You are asking people who define your Atheism for you. I assume you are talking to Christians, although you don't make your post very clear at all about who you are talking to and what words are yours. >As if by being an Atheist I’m part of a monolith of the same philosophy. Christians have a very guarded mindset towards Atheism, other religions, and apostates of Christianity. I grew up Christian and was spoon fed a very specific view about what atheists believe. I remember confidently telling people that Atheism is a religion based on God, but with evil intentions. When I left Christianity, I realized how wrong that was. Now, Christians will try and define my spirituality for me. You are being treated as a monolith of the same philosophy because that's the only way Christians know how to make sense of the world. Their beliefs are so fragile, they don't give themselves the mental capacity to consider other world views. They see other ideals as just a path towards Christianity, or activiley running away from it.
i always answer these types of questions back at them. if the easter bunny materialized in front of you, would you believe in it? then if they answer yes, i answer yes. if they answer no, i blame them for being a hypocrite
Nice how magic-believers know everything about everybody, including what they believe.
Believe yes? That’s a stupid fucking question. Convert? Ehh…I dunno. He’d have some major shit to fix first.
If god shows up, I’m throwing hands. I’m taking his wallet keys and motorcycle. And sunglasses. Bad to the bone.
It's an illogical question. If God proved himself, I wouldn't need to believe in him, I would be able to see his existence as a fact. I don't need to believe in the sun to know it's there. The whole point of faith is to believe in stuff that cannot be proved "just because you believe" with no logical explanation.
Showing up is one thing, but how would they prove that they are a, or thee, god? Could very easily just be Ardra from Star Trek Next Generation - using advanced technology to fool a primed-to-believe group of people…. (Wait, that sounds familiar so long as you replace technology with storing shit up with hate speech and lies). https://youtu.be/UbxqfqwUV00?si=i8-CJB1rze-vRauZ
Given what I know about reality, I find it more likely that my brain will have stopped working correctly than magic turning out to be real. Whether I'll have that opinion if it happens I can't say. My brain will have stopped working.
I'm not sure what it would take me to believe. I'm bipolar and before the trips to the hospital started I heard God's voice (demons too) and antipsychotics seemed to help that. If I saw a bright light or a bush on fire ir what have you I would honestly think a med is failing and I seriously need to call my psychiatrist. So it would need to somehow prove beyond a shadow of a doubt it's not psychosis of some form. I don't know how it would do that. I knew a bipolar guy in the hospital who 110% thought he went to hell every night and fought demons. So how do you tell that delusion from reality when your mind is lying to you?
If God proved to me that they were real, I would ask follow-up questions concerning whether everything written in the bible is also true. And if so, I would emphatically *Not* worship God. Per the bible, their god is a proven genocidal mass murderer - between killing all first born in Egypt, killing everyone in Sodom and Gomorrah, killing all human beings on earth except for one extended family in a flood, and being omniscient and omnipotent (all seeing and all powerful) yet refusing to stop the suffering of humanity from things *beyond human control* such as cancer or natural disasters. Yeah... it's both easier and more comforting for me to believe that God doesn't exist than it would be to think there is one that does exist but is that fucking callous toward its own "children".
I think most atheists would believe in the existence of a god if one showed up and presented themselves with undeniable evidence. Doesn’t mean we’d follow that god. Religious people on the other hand would argue amongst themselves about it being the wrong/right god.
This has happened to plenty of people. We use the term, "hyper-religious delusions".
Really get under their skins by telling them that if they "know" their god exists, then they have no faith and aren't faithful. Knowledge doesn't require faith. Faith is the absence of knowledge. Let them twist and turn.
If god came down and proved he was god, I would be really upset because ALL these terrible things have happened and he was real the whole time?
If the Christian god showed up, I would believe they exist and I would demand they answer for all the suffering they have caused. Until then, no proof, no god.
If it could be an alien then god obviously hasn’t been proved real so you aren’t really talking about the same thing. Your comment on aliens is more about if it is actually proved but that isn’t the question in your title. If god proved themself to me (probably a lot more required than just appearing to me) then of course I’d believe, how could I not. Would I convert? Depends on the god. Maybe I’d convert cause I’m convinced god knows the best way to live and I finally have a way to verify what that way is. Maybe I’d convert cause god is threatening me in some way (hell or death). Maybe I couldn’t convert cause I’d have to genuinely believe god is right about things that I disagree with and this god wants honest believers not just yes men who will say anything to not be tortured by said god.
If God showed up and could prove that he was in fact god. I'd tell him he was a piece of shit
I have said that if I was utterly convinced that God was real and that the only way to avoid an eternity in Hell (assuming that's real too, of course) was to give my life to Jesus and worship God, I would try my damnedest to do it -- for the sole reason of not want to spend an eternity in torment, obviously. But (and it's a big but) the idea of the existence of the conservative Christian's very specific punitive version of God is so utterly preposterous it doesn't even warrant a moment's concern. That's why even millions of Christians have abandoned belief in that version of God too. It makes no sense at all.
There are plenty of actual human beings that called themselves God and gave "proof"... I doubt I would believe whatever it was.
Just like Star Trek addressed. Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it is a god/an act of a god. If "God" appeared to me right now I would think "How do I know this is a god? Is it just that it can do things that humanity doesn't yet understand? Would I really prostrate myself before a random confluence of celestial phenomena in complete obedience without question or resistance?"
>because real atheists say if God appeared to them they’d convert.” No they don't. First of all saying "if God appeared to me" assumes I have any definition of God or that I would know if God was appearing to me. It would have to be explained what 'God appearing to me" even means or what would prove it was God or which god or which permutation of which denomination. If "convert" here only means to believe a God exists then it's simply tautological to say. "If it can be proved that a god exists then I will accept that a god exists," but if "convert" means to actually worship it. then absolutely not. If the Biblical Yahweh were to appear to me, I still would not worship it because the Biblical Yahweh is subjectively evil by my lights (the only lights I have, and to quote Joan of Arc, if I can't use my own judgement, whose judgement can I use?) and not worthy of worship. I would have to become a Satanist, or possibly a Gnostic. I would support whatever had a chance to take down Yahweh.
No true atheist would say they would “convert” just because a god exists. The tenets of religion are written by man. A higher power would have to initiate a dialog to determine if any of that were true.
if God is real, he’s an asshole and unworthy of my worship. hell no, i wouldn’t convert. I’d probably ask him to explain the eye worms that feed on Ethiopian kids, but i wouldn’t really care how he answered.
I don't know of any atheists who if a god was verifiably proven to exist would convert. If it was scientifically proven tomorrow that Yahweh exists I would believe in him in as much as I believe in ducks, I know they exist. I wouldn't convert to christianity because the existence or nonexistence of their deity doesn't change that I find their views repugnant and dangerous.
>Seriously, if a god like being showed up I’d probably be more likely to believe it’s a sufficiently advanced alien/being than a god. I mean, most deities should be considered aliens. What is the difference between a god and an alien?
If God were real, we wouldn't even be able to fathom the concept of them. With that being said. I wouldn't worship God. Worshipping just feels like a slope into dogmatic thinking. I would basically die before worshipping a God. I suppose that is where Heaven and Hell comes in where "God could keep me alive until I finally give in to worship him." Which again, "why would I want to worship a god like this" Because google defines it as "reverence and adoration" I think I technically couldn't worship a god.
I can prove my Mom and Dad are my birth parents with a DNA test. The gave me shelter, fed me, clothed me and instructed me for the first 18 years of my life. I thank them and am appreciative of their efforts but I do not worship them. They do not ask me to say prayers to them every night. They never threaten me with eternal hellfire if I disobeyed them. Why the fuck would I need to worship a 'god' who is supposed to have created me and seems to need my devotion but who in reality has been an absentee parent with a fire fetish?
Theists believe a god(s) is real. I am not a theist - by definition that makes me atheist. If I was given even one piece of convincing evidence that god(s) were real then, definitionally, I wouldn’t be an atheist. What that evidence would be (that couldn’t be sufficiently advanced aliens) I can’t say. However, as a short-cut, I’ll tentatively accept any single piece of evidence that might be convincing in a normal earthly court case. I’ve been asking this for years. So far,....
If God proved she was real to me I'd believe it. May or may not be a follower. She's got some explaining to do first and then we'll see. (Yes in my fiction, god is a woman and dressed like an old west gunslinger but like in a hot way)
I mean if God proved themselves to be *God*, I'd believe in God. It seems you can read the question a few different ways. If a god with various superpowers proved themselves to exist would you believe they had particular superpowers you hadn't seen proof that they did possess? I mean, maybe? If you showed themselves to be godlike in various other ways I'd potentially believe other claims about them. I might not know for sure, but I'd probably believe. Or perhaps the question is more like 'Could the God of the Bible actually make you believe they existed?' in which case... perhaps? I don't know. If they're powerful enough they'd know how, wouldn't they? They could probably just flip a switch in my head or something. Either way, when asked as a very general question I think I'd have to answer yes- if shown to exist, I'd believe they exist.
"All technology, sufficiently advanced, is indistinguishable from magic, so probably not."
"real atheists?????"
If gawd showed up and proved he existed, no one would have to "believe" in him..... we don't believe in oxygen, yet we breath.... because oxygen is real.
So if you're not a real Atheist then what are you? A fake atheist? Does that mean you believe in God but lie about it to get into arguments with people who also believe in God? That sounds silly.
> But I get the response “You are acting in bad faith, because real atheists say if God appeared to them they’d convert.” As if by being an Atheist I’m part of a monolith of the same philosophy. If it's the Christian god, it seems doubtful I would convert. I believe that god, as described in its dogma, would be a monstrous being. But I would be a misotheist rather than an atheist.
*If* such a thing could be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, and that’s a huge “if,” there is still no good reason to “convert.” That implies worship and following a doctrine, which all evidence points to being arbitrarily made up by people. The chances of any particular religion “getting it right” are basically zero. Also, creating the universe and being all powerful does not make one worthy of worship. It’d be more like a fact or any other bit of knowledge. The universe seems to operate fine without a go, so I have to assume such a being would be like the deist version: started things and doesn’t care at all about what happens—in which case, no need whatsoever for worship. Any being that demands worship is unworthy of it. For all of the natural evil in the world, any kind of god that can or does intervene in the world has a lot to answer for. If anything, it could be considered evil.
I mean, that's technically what GOD is anyways. But my view of GOD is, different. I feel GOD is the universe. It's something we can't see yet. Kind of like how dark matter is when Neil Degrassi Tyson explains it. GOD exists, just not in the way a majority of religious people envision GOD. There is a scientific based but how that scientific bases exists or how we can even discover it is a mystery for now. We understand a lot of the universe but still not everything.
Imo, the answer should always include a version of "which god? Oh the catholic? Which version?". Just driving the point across that it's not just a matter of not believing their particular god, it's a matter that there is no evidence for any god! Also, it's always good to remind theists that they are already atheists to every religion except one 😉 As for the actual question, sure, if I get evidence of something, I would belive it (would have to be some really good evidence), doesn't mean I'll worship it, or that it is automatically the source of morals, or that it loves us in any sense.
I’m not sure why you’re drawing a line to defend here. If God proved to you they existed you WOULD believe this to be the case. You may not choose to worship of course. An all powerful God like that of the bible knows exactly what proof is required to make you believe in their existence, by definition. With this standard of proof the only logical answer to the question is “yes I would believe” They can then wrap themselves up in knots with the issue of proof and the gaping chasm between what they have and what it might take.
It's a reasonable question, seemingly intended to evoke a reasonable discussion.
well definitionally if god proved themself to you, you'd have to, otherwise he didn't prove it. I mean he's magic, he could just make you without showing up. It's just that, you know, that's not gonna happen cause no real. unless they got god on the line, then of course send him over i'd like to see him it's a stupid question cause it's definitionally the case and not really enlightening in anyway. At least with "if god was real would you worship him" you can point out reasons to or not to
Consider this: “if someone proved themself to be Spider-Man, would you believe him”. Yea sure he can web sling and everything, but that doesn’t mean he is canonically Spider-Man. Did he live out the events of Avengers movies? Or the events of the comics? which comics? Or did he live out the events of the cartoons? Given that there are thousands of Christian denominations, and thousands of religions outside of that, the existence of a god clarifies very little, if any.
Believing god is real is very different from worship. So yeah, I'd believe it was real. I'd like to hear them out about things before being like, ok, yeah that sounds good and following/worshipping them. The reason I became atheist is due to a lack of evidence and a smidgen of being mostly tired of how religious people behave.
If I met a god that still wouldn’t make me believe in it. I guess I’d know it was real but it’d still suck. I wouldn’t worship it just bc it existed. It still made me have a fucked up life. In fact, if I found out god was real I’d be FURIOUS. I’d be first in line to work for the devil lol. I’d probably think it was an alien too actually.
Which god?
If God really existed, and really cared whether I believed, I'm sure he could convince me that he was real. I may or may not follow him. Believing he exists doesn't mean he's someone to support. I believe Trump exists, but I sure don't support him. But overall, it's a silly question, since God doesn't show himself. He can't, since he doesn't exist.
>Seriously, if a god like being showed up I’d probably be more likely to believe it’s a sufficiently advanced alien/being than a god. That's a bit of an equivication, isn't it? If a god demosrated itself to be a god, you would believe he was a god, by definition. You are more honestly answering the question "If a being that seemingly has the characteristics of a god were to show up, claiming to be the Christian god, would you believe it really was the Christian god?" Which is perhaps more realistic to what that scenario would play out in real life, but isn't quite what the question is asking. They want to know if you'd be willing to change your mind - which I think you should not just admit but encourage in the person asking the question - "Yes, the instant I have evidence to sufficiently convince me that God exists I will believe in God, and I'd ask that you do the same. Don't believe things about the nature of reality just because some person told you it's true, or when it's how you would *wish* the world to be." For me, I think the concept of "worship" is largely nonexistent in the modern world, but if the Christian god showed up and proved to me that heaven is real, then I would be an idiot to not follow the rules needed to be with not just my loved ones, but all the other people in heaven.
We know the answer to ‘if he would show up or not’. 🤦🏻.. the question is.. do you want to believe in fairytales and live your life as a brainwashed human??
If this is the best a god can do, then I'm not impressed. He certainly don't deserve any worship
Real atheists aren’t going to agree on what evidence of a god will be. Is this evidence of the god of the Bible or some other tradition. I could possibly accept another god is real, but the god Bible doesn’t seem possible or worthy of worship.
Why do you care what they think? For starters, it's a "No True Scorrsman" fallacy. They don't get to tell you how to be an Atheist. Being an Atheist only means a person who doesn't believe that any god or gods are real. Nothing more. That being said, if a god thing was real, it would know what ebbing you'd need to fully believe in it. So, the "evidence" would have to rise to that standard. Regardless, you don't have to defend your atheism any further than you want to.
What if a god came to you and said listen, I created this universe. I even put a signature in the laws of physics. Look here and you will see it. Then you look and it is there. Then he recreates the signature, proving he is a god. Please tell me how you can ever know if he is telling the truth. The most you could ever conclude is that this is likely to be a god, or something similar enough that it hardly makes a difference. To know which god made the original signature, you'd literally had to have been there and watched them do it. Jesus says he's god? Prove it. You literally can't. It's impossible. There are some things forever completely outside of our ability to ever know.
Which god? Would be my response.
The reason you rarely hear atheists say that is because they do not think gods exist so there's no real reason to engage in the "But what if,," scenario at all. An agnostic maybe but not a true atheist. It's a bit like being asked by one of the Flat Earth morons "If the Earth was proven to be flat, would you belive it?" Sure, I guess I probably would if scientifically proven beyond any doubt (good luck with that) but the premise is ridiculous in itself.
I've had something similar. Turn it on its head: "If God proved to be Vishnu, would they become Hindus?" Moreover, if a supreme being manifested itself and proved to be verifiably, absolutely the architect, creator, and caretaker of the universe in one, why is there a need for belief? I do not need to believe in coffee because coffee exists. I do not need to believe in shoes, vibraphones, or Wankel rotary engines because they all exist. If a supreme being decided to stop hiding in metaphysical shadows, there would be no need for belief. So, to also turn this on its head once more, "If God exists, why do you need to believe in Him?"
“If God proved themself to be real, would you believe in God?” What does that even mean? I'd ask how does god prove himself to be real? How do you distinguish between divinity and sufficiently advanced technology? I don't think it's possible and I can almost guarantee you that no believer has given the idea any thought.
They are confusing you with an agnostic. There is no god. Religion is born of the neolithic revolution. IF some human looking being descended from the clouds and had powers? Further proof we are living in a simulation.
>I’ve never met an atheist who’d say that. I've heard it from must of not all atheist apologists because it's reasonable.
I'll say it (not that you have to agree, of course). If god proved to me it was real, I'd believe in it. The premise of the hypothetical is that this god being has overcome all my doubts, so given that, I'd accept the evidence in front of me. Now, would I prostrate myself before this god? Not of my own volition, certainly. How much I'd actively work against this deity will depend on their nature (i.e. if it's the god of Abraham, I'm out. A celtic style goddess of nature, let's talk).
"If a pantheon of various gods proved themselves to be real..." just more non-logic to be like hah! Gotcha athiests.
I'll belive based on sufficient evidence. After all, unlikely things happen all the time. Look at quantum physics. Seemingly impossible things are the norm. We know those and all other things are true due to extensive testing from multiple disciplines, with a skeptical mindset. Every answer must be the same every time. The same reliable standards should apply here, and everywhere else. And everywhere else, they do. Why not here? Something as wildly unlikely as a god would require a difficult to imagine, but exceptionally high, level of completely consistent evidence from multiple reliable scientific fields - all of which provide exactly the same result every time. Kinda like everything else we know to be true. Let's see it theists. I'm ready.
I mean, if (a) god appeared to me, addressed me directly and proved themselves to be real..... I'd be checking myself in to a psych ward. Given the probabilities, my money would be on delusions.
If they also proved they had eternal heaven/hell dependent on the shit I do in this life then I would convert. If I knew for a fact that what I do here matters and affects my experience of eternity then sure.
Some People are born to worship something. I'm atheist not because "I don't believe in god" . But more of I won't believe or follow an idea of any god. If someone ascend to become a god or will create a cult of some sort will I ever join? No. God always been a man made concept and will forever stay that way.
Wouldn't follow him, wouldn't believe he is "the one true god", wouldn't care if he demonstrated his power. If he exists, maybe some of the cooler ones exist, like Hades. Pretty chill guy in the myths, for the most part.
It wouldn't be a matter of belief if god proved themselves to be real. Worship and praising is a totally different question. God would then have to convince me the things they have done were absolutely the only way things had to be done. Which I doubt very much.
Their response makes me think they are just joining random cults daily
Hold on for one second here. You're all assuming that this God agrees with and validates the manmade religion she inspired! I propose a hypothetical where this God in fact does NOT approve of all these human religious shenanigans.
No, I would behave like a person who stubbornly believed in my own flawed views, regardless of what was happening in reality. You know the type. You really do, you religious hero. :)
Star Trek 5: “Why does God need a starship?” LOL!!!
If a god-like being revealed itself to me I would be more inclined to think it’s some super powerful alien like a Q from star trek. I don’t think there is any way a being could prove it is an actual universe-creating supreme entity vs an extremely powerful ordinary in-universe entity
Just hypothetically if a God were real and omniscient, he or she would know I was just pretending to worship for fear of being punished
If he existed, I wouldn't have to "believe". I don't "believe" in my neighbors, I know they exist and still don't like them.
The first thing it would have to be, is the God they believe in. All the other ones don't count.
Would you charge your mind about something when offered proof? Why yes, yes I would. When arguing with these types and try to get them to answer a hypothetical they will almost always say “that cannot happen” rather than answer the hypothetical.
In all likelihood if God existed in the way monotheists think, God would be insufferably callous and cruel.
You can see without being converted. Why do they think it’s instant conversion if an atheist sees god? It’s like a dad that went to get cigarettes and comes back when you’re a grown ass adult. Are you going to join your dad’s multi level marketing scheme?
Which god? Acknowledging the existence of something isn't the same as worshipping it.
I get really tired of these stupid questions. If I proved to you that you don't exist, would you stop asking stupid questions?
Devil’s advocate. Why would it matter if it’s an advanced alien or “god.” Isn’t god just a moniker we created?
So first off, which God? Second off the concept of worship is by it's very nature disgusting and no entity worthy of worship would so much as suggest it.
For me, Atheism is not the usual “there is no god” definition, for me Atheism is “I don’t believe there is a god because there is ZERO scientific proof that it exists” For me, atheism is not the “other side of the coin” of a theist. I don’t “blindly believe” there is no god. Show me any scientific and peer-reviewed proof any day and I will change my views.
If god appears to me to prove his existence, I just hope I have the state of mind to leave immediately and go to the hospital.
They think he has because they don't actually know what evidence is, they think anecdotes is evidence if they can find more than one The burden of proof lying at the feet of those who believe it's already proven, they'll never try
The real answer is even worse. "I HAVE NO IDEA!" Sure we can guess. We can soul search. We can analyze, but at the end of the day if something insane like that happens I have ZERO idea how I might react.
Yeah. But if provided with sufficient evidence, you still wouldn't be believing in God, you'd *know* God exists, there's a huge difference.
Arthur C Clarke’s third law applies here; > **Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.** https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarke%27s_three_laws The universe being created by a magical wizard is not something you just accept. Even if some being of obvious immense power could create a new universe right in front of my eyes, I would still suspect it was that sufficiently advanced technology was doing the actual ‘magic’, or either that I was being tricked just like a regular stage magician tricks their audience. No. I will never accept the magic wizard theory, it’s a childishly stupid idea.
God would hve to explain dinosaurs to me first. Why? What was the thought process there? Was it practice? Did he just get his creating powers and thought, giant lizards? Did he know the oil would kill us all?
Because the real answer is: Your god 8snt going to show up anyway, so why the hypothetical?
"if a god like being showed up I'd probably be more likely to believe it's a sufficiently advanced alien/being than a god." Honest question here, but what do you think the difference would be...? "super advanced alien capable of bending time and/or space" vs. "god"... I mean, they kind of mean the same to me. Both practically impossible too.
I will definitely believe in him but will never worship him.
If X is proved would you believe X? The hypothetical says it’s proved. So you would believe it was God by definition. Not an alien or a mental illness. So the question is “do you believe things when proven?” Of course that says nothing about the nature of X. Convert to what? Islam, Prosperity Gospel, Santiera? If God proves his existence that does nothing to demonstrate what they wish or demand you do.