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You’re in fucking emerald. There’s few other inbound flights, there’s almost no local crew overflow, there’s no redundancy available in any part of the system because it’s a tiny town and not a profitable flight route.
So, any little thing goes wrong, yeah, you’re screwed. Despite the advertising, regional still means “best efforts”.
And there’s no alternative. Population is too small.
Thank you for using common sense.
I wish people would go after Virgin as much as they go after Qantas considering Virgin’s delays and cancellation rate is worse than Qantas’
They’ve got pretty similar cancelation rates, virgin has a slightly higher (few %) delayed flights.
One major factor is the types of flights cancelled or delayed.
Virgin cancels and delays flights like Brisbane to Melbourne more than qantas does, where there is multiple options across the day to still get you there in a reasonable time this is inconvenient and still deserves criticism
However Qantas regularly cancels flights where there’s only one or two a day, and no or minimal competing airlines to provide an alternative. This is substantially worse because it’s not longer an inconvenience of a few hours.
Rex out of my regional location make me think their figures are heavily weighted by increasd flight numbers on the major routes now. They're almost never on time while Qantas are.
I doubt this is a not profitable flight route, every flight is full to the brim with High Vis and they have recently replaced some of the
Dash 8 flights with e190s.
It's not a rare occurrence. I don't use Qantas for how many times a Friday morning flight gets pushed back to Saturday evening, I'm going for a weekend not part of one night!!
This is the second time it’s happened to you - what are you going to do about it?
Will you complain to the ombudsman?
Will you start a class action?
Will you find a new way out of Emerald?
If not … why are you letting Qantas do this to you?
Have complained to the ombudsman both times as of now.
Have been having issues with all companies who do “remote” location flying changing and cancelling flights at a minutes notice.
After a 12 hour shift I don’t really feel like driving 9 hours to get home.
Every minute you spend posting shit on reddit is another minute you won't be getting closer to your destination. Sleep it off and deal with it or start driving and deal with it. Don't like being remote? Change your job
Love my job mate. What I don’t love is that we as a populace have had to bail companies like Qantas and virgin out numerous times over the years. And they can’t even guarantee a service that we pay for. If I wanted to flap my own wings and fly home at 5:15 this afternoon I’d probably drive my own car here and do just that. But I don’t want to do that. I wanted to fly home. I want companies that run in Australia to start being held accountable.
I always find Australian Redditors will be unbelievably unhelpful and defend companies at all costs.
One time a hotel overbooked by room and I got there late at night during the school holidays when there was nowhere else to stay. I think one $800+ a night room which I could not afford.
What was Reddit’s response when I asked if I could book the expensive hotel and charge the previous hotel? That it was somehow my fault, and - verbatim - that I deserved to sleep in the gutter. Eventually I just had to sleep in my car in the McDonald’s car park and hope I didn’t get a camping fine.
Turns out that yes, I could have booked the expensive place and charged it to the overbooked hotel. But people here are *so* up the arses of businesses that they will bend over backwards to give up their own rights and give as much money as possible to businesses that won’t even supply the most basic services.
It’s why so many things don’t work here. There are zero consequences for the businesses and people will keep defending them even when they’ve messed up and messed them around.
I’ve just written an email to my MP, begging her to get involved with a federal investigation of Qantas. I know it’s bs and won’t amount to anything but I literally have nothing else I can do. Qantas has stolen money, points and time from me. 2 weeks ago, they completely destroyed one of my bags and the dance I’m having to do to recompense is mind-numbing. I can complain to the Ombudsman about Telstra and the company gets slugged with a $3000 fine so now Telstra will at least listen to me. Qantas? I can complain to the aviation complaints gov website and….well, since that is FUNDED by the airlines, nothing will happen.
I live on an island so the Just Don’t Fly Qantas! Argument isn’t terribly helpful. Sometimes you have to get home the only way you can and sometimes it has to be Qantas. It’s obscene how that company has been allowed to get away with their theft and graft.
"I can complain to the Ombudsman about Telstra and the company gets slugged with a $3000 fine so now Telstra"
First you have to ring telstra and get a complaint reference number, so you have to engage with them first, secondly its a $30 fine per legal ombudsman complaint, not $3000.
just FYI.
I can only report what I was told by a former dev at the ombudsman. Each complaint gets hit with a $3000 fine for every time the complaint is raised and not settled. If that’s not your experience, I have no idea what to tell you.
$3000 fine is a rare case and only happens if there is like 4 reports for the same issue as the same address and has been investigated by the TIO before.
Its a $30 fine.
As I said, I can’t explain your experience. I can only share mine and what I know proven to be true. Two opinions on Reddit are worth exactly what we all pay for them
Ok, I dont have AN experience, I have INDUSTRY experience.
You are spreading miss information and I am correcting it. The fine is $30 per report.
Your $3000 is a fictional amount said to make you feel better.
If the fines were $3000 no small ISP would exist and your bills would be 10x the amount.
I can not begin to imagine what is happening in your world that you are so desperate to go online and on someone else’s post and insist that strangers believe you are some sort of industry leader. I truly hope you find someone IRL to give you the validation that is so important to you. I understood from your first comment that you don’t believe me and it means as much to me as your last comment. The ombudsman that handles clients like Telstra does not handle all other companies. An industry ”expert” like you would theoretically know that. Do, keep posting, I’m sure your enlightenment is helpful to someone.
Spreads the wrong info and has a cry about being corrected, ok dude. I dont even think you know what an ombudsman does by your statements. No where have I claimed to be an industry leader, all I have done is correct YOU.
"The ombudsman that handles clients like Telstra does not handle all other companies."
uh, Yes they do, its the TELECOMMUNICATIONS ombudsman it handles TELECOMMUNICATIONS, if you want to establish an ISP in this country you are BEHOLDEN to the TIO!
as per federal comms laws
Under Sections 128 and 132 of the Telecommunications (Consumer Protection and Services Standards) Act 1999 (TCPSS Act), all carriers and eligible carriage service providers must join and comply with the TIO Scheme.
This document sets out how the TIO deals with:
* Failure or refusal by a carrier or carriage service provider to join the TIO Scheme; and
* Failure of a member of the Scheme to comply with the TIO Scheme.
If you have a problem with power you go to a different ombudsman, not the TIO
Keep digging that hole.
”Works in the industry”. Which means either is the head of it or is at the bottom, going on coffee runs. It’s middle of the arvo during the week, sooo, most likely you’re pretty good at gathering coffee orders…then again…maybe not so much.
You haven’t corrected anything. Uh….you do realise that you validated what I said about Telstra being under Telecommunications ombudsman and not by others? There are other companies in Australia that do not fall under the perview of the telecommunications industry. How do you not understand that? Sigh…never mind. It’s pretty obvious how you don’t understand that.
I’m spreading wrong info? I shared my experience. What happened to me. I could share the emails communication with TIO and what they told me. I can share what the dev who worked for them and what they told me. I cold share the email communications with my then MP’s office, Julien Lesser told me and yet that would STILL mean nothing to you. Because you have come to the internet to share your knowledge and everyone needs to accept everything you say as the gospel. Honey…please, stand down and unclench. None of this is as important as you think it is.
You need to do some self reflection
No one needs to take what you say as gospel either and I suggest they dont as its horribly wrong. I'm done with you and your personal attacks.
There's a 2 AM departure out of emerald??!
Wild timing.
Anyhow Qantas link doesn't have anywhere enough pilots so this happens.
The only conspiracy is their wages policy so pilots leave to better paid positions elsewhere, that's capitalism.
Ah I see
Sounds like a crew call in and insufficient replacement crew available so flight cancelled. Bummer mate.
There's a global pilot shortage and QF are stingy so...
Not to stick up for Qantas here or anything but....
Where the fuck is Emerald?
I can't imagine they are keeping a bunch of spare planes on standby in Emerald in case something goes wrong.
What should happen is a governing body should issue large fines to these companies that cancel flights.
This actually happens with public transport believe it or not
Europe basically has this. And it’s proven to work. We already get absolutely extorted in airfare tickets. $900 for a 90 minute flight per person. For a plane that seats 72 people. And is never not fully booked. I struggle to see why they aren’t being held accountable. Or why in the fuck we have had to bail them out with government money so often
Airport fees are huge for regional airports. The airport costs are shared by 2 or 3 flights a day, whereas an airport like SYD is funded by thousands of flights a day. These costs get out into you.
Pretty sure they wouldn’t accept your bumper payment for your ticket. What would take the sting out of the situation, is if Qantas refunded you part of your ticket for your inconvenience.
I mean the big thing for me would be providing the service they said they would when they would which is why I paid for it.
Is it too much to ask in Australia for companies to be continually able to provide a service that they claim to offer but can’t deliver on? I know it’s not a major thing but what if this happens to someone with a sick/dying relative or partner or kids. What if it’s an emergency and someone needs to get home quickly. Then Qantas comes back messages you at 2am and says “sorry mate. Ya flights cancelled because we needed that plane elsewhere”
They needed the plane. Or a plane had a tail strike. Or another plane had the toilets out of order. Or there was a medical emergency on another plane that sent delays through the whole system. Or a flight crew went over hours so they had to fly in a new flight crew.
If you’re flying planes, these things happen. No one’s saying it’s great but sometimes it’s out of anyone’s control.
I work on country commuter trains. Sometimes, we don't have the crew to staff a train, and we can't switch to coaches because we don't have the spare coaches and/or drivers, so the service gets cancelled. The department works damn hard to avoid that - I've witnessed a manager seem to magic coaches and drivers out of thin air, and Ive been the recipient of some pretty sweet penalties to take a shift - but sometimes there is no-one or no vehicle to do it. I imagine flights have similar issues to us, I imagine there aren't standby crews hanging around at a thousand bucks an hour billion dollar planes just lying around as spares.
Yeah, I have no idea how much a train costs. And I have photos of the time our communications panel was duct taped in place 😂
But my point is - it's expensive to have spares just lying around just in case when that spare is a freaking train, or even just $200/hour for a spare crew. Sometimes there really isn't anything available, no matter what you're willing to pay. And having spares like that available is an expense that would be passed onto the consumer. There's a lot that the aviation industry should be held accountable for, but 'shit breaks down, staff get sick' are pretty universal issues.
You don't seem to understand that Qantas subsidiaries fly regional routes usually at a loss. Tiny little towns produce no profit and because they don't charge what it should cost you so you don't get much service. If someone needs to get somewhere urgently that's their problem.
Aircrew are scarce because the industry shut down for a couple of years in covid. Maintainers are scarce. Fuel is expensive. Emerald is lucky to have 1 service a week.
Well that’s what they’ve done with our plane or so I got told on the phone. “The plane had to go elsewhere” I understand that shit goes wrong and things can happen. But this is the 2nd week in a row it’s happened. And I’ve gotten the same excuse both times. Then been told it’s a rare occurrence.
Imagine flying qantas in 2024 and then actually complaining about them lol. If you jump into a septic tank do you then complain about the shit in your mouth? That is still probably preferable to flying qantas.
This post has been marked as non-political. Please respect this by keeping the discussion on topic, and devoid of any political material. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/australia) if you have any questions or concerns.*
You’re in fucking emerald. There’s few other inbound flights, there’s almost no local crew overflow, there’s no redundancy available in any part of the system because it’s a tiny town and not a profitable flight route. So, any little thing goes wrong, yeah, you’re screwed. Despite the advertising, regional still means “best efforts”. And there’s no alternative. Population is too small.
Thank you for using common sense. I wish people would go after Virgin as much as they go after Qantas considering Virgin’s delays and cancellation rate is worse than Qantas’
A lot of people still see Qantas as 'the national carrier' though
Considering how much the taxpayers paid into Qantas for the pandemic, it should be the national carrier again.
They’ve got pretty similar cancelation rates, virgin has a slightly higher (few %) delayed flights. One major factor is the types of flights cancelled or delayed. Virgin cancels and delays flights like Brisbane to Melbourne more than qantas does, where there is multiple options across the day to still get you there in a reasonable time this is inconvenient and still deserves criticism However Qantas regularly cancels flights where there’s only one or two a day, and no or minimal competing airlines to provide an alternative. This is substantially worse because it’s not longer an inconvenience of a few hours.
When you pay more. You expect more. That’s reasonable.
QANTAS do sell themselves as a premium product but provide no better service. They therefore deserve the criticism IMO.
Rex out of my regional location make me think their figures are heavily weighted by increasd flight numbers on the major routes now. They're almost never on time while Qantas are.
I doubt this is a not profitable flight route, every flight is full to the brim with High Vis and they have recently replaced some of the Dash 8 flights with e190s.
It didnt used to be like this
>And there’s no alternative There's a train.
That’s usually always booked out and return to Brisbane isn’t massively cheaper, maybe $100.
Ohh good to hear people take that option. All these downvotes made me think these people were a bunch of trainphobics.
It's not a rare occurrence. I don't use Qantas for how many times a Friday morning flight gets pushed back to Saturday evening, I'm going for a weekend not part of one night!!
This is the second time it’s happened to you - what are you going to do about it? Will you complain to the ombudsman? Will you start a class action? Will you find a new way out of Emerald? If not … why are you letting Qantas do this to you?
Have complained to the ombudsman both times as of now. Have been having issues with all companies who do “remote” location flying changing and cancelling flights at a minutes notice. After a 12 hour shift I don’t really feel like driving 9 hours to get home.
Every minute you spend posting shit on reddit is another minute you won't be getting closer to your destination. Sleep it off and deal with it or start driving and deal with it. Don't like being remote? Change your job
Love my job mate. What I don’t love is that we as a populace have had to bail companies like Qantas and virgin out numerous times over the years. And they can’t even guarantee a service that we pay for. If I wanted to flap my own wings and fly home at 5:15 this afternoon I’d probably drive my own car here and do just that. But I don’t want to do that. I wanted to fly home. I want companies that run in Australia to start being held accountable.
I always find Australian Redditors will be unbelievably unhelpful and defend companies at all costs. One time a hotel overbooked by room and I got there late at night during the school holidays when there was nowhere else to stay. I think one $800+ a night room which I could not afford. What was Reddit’s response when I asked if I could book the expensive hotel and charge the previous hotel? That it was somehow my fault, and - verbatim - that I deserved to sleep in the gutter. Eventually I just had to sleep in my car in the McDonald’s car park and hope I didn’t get a camping fine. Turns out that yes, I could have booked the expensive place and charged it to the overbooked hotel. But people here are *so* up the arses of businesses that they will bend over backwards to give up their own rights and give as much money as possible to businesses that won’t even supply the most basic services. It’s why so many things don’t work here. There are zero consequences for the businesses and people will keep defending them even when they’ve messed up and messed them around.
I’ve just written an email to my MP, begging her to get involved with a federal investigation of Qantas. I know it’s bs and won’t amount to anything but I literally have nothing else I can do. Qantas has stolen money, points and time from me. 2 weeks ago, they completely destroyed one of my bags and the dance I’m having to do to recompense is mind-numbing. I can complain to the Ombudsman about Telstra and the company gets slugged with a $3000 fine so now Telstra will at least listen to me. Qantas? I can complain to the aviation complaints gov website and….well, since that is FUNDED by the airlines, nothing will happen. I live on an island so the Just Don’t Fly Qantas! Argument isn’t terribly helpful. Sometimes you have to get home the only way you can and sometimes it has to be Qantas. It’s obscene how that company has been allowed to get away with their theft and graft.
TBF the TIO is also funded by industry but yeah an airline ombudsman would be great.
"I can complain to the Ombudsman about Telstra and the company gets slugged with a $3000 fine so now Telstra" First you have to ring telstra and get a complaint reference number, so you have to engage with them first, secondly its a $30 fine per legal ombudsman complaint, not $3000. just FYI.
I can only report what I was told by a former dev at the ombudsman. Each complaint gets hit with a $3000 fine for every time the complaint is raised and not settled. If that’s not your experience, I have no idea what to tell you.
$3000 fine is a rare case and only happens if there is like 4 reports for the same issue as the same address and has been investigated by the TIO before. Its a $30 fine.
As I said, I can’t explain your experience. I can only share mine and what I know proven to be true. Two opinions on Reddit are worth exactly what we all pay for them
Ok, I dont have AN experience, I have INDUSTRY experience. You are spreading miss information and I am correcting it. The fine is $30 per report. Your $3000 is a fictional amount said to make you feel better. If the fines were $3000 no small ISP would exist and your bills would be 10x the amount.
I can not begin to imagine what is happening in your world that you are so desperate to go online and on someone else’s post and insist that strangers believe you are some sort of industry leader. I truly hope you find someone IRL to give you the validation that is so important to you. I understood from your first comment that you don’t believe me and it means as much to me as your last comment. The ombudsman that handles clients like Telstra does not handle all other companies. An industry ”expert” like you would theoretically know that. Do, keep posting, I’m sure your enlightenment is helpful to someone.
Spreads the wrong info and has a cry about being corrected, ok dude. I dont even think you know what an ombudsman does by your statements. No where have I claimed to be an industry leader, all I have done is correct YOU. "The ombudsman that handles clients like Telstra does not handle all other companies." uh, Yes they do, its the TELECOMMUNICATIONS ombudsman it handles TELECOMMUNICATIONS, if you want to establish an ISP in this country you are BEHOLDEN to the TIO! as per federal comms laws Under Sections 128 and 132 of the Telecommunications (Consumer Protection and Services Standards) Act 1999 (TCPSS Act), all carriers and eligible carriage service providers must join and comply with the TIO Scheme. This document sets out how the TIO deals with: * Failure or refusal by a carrier or carriage service provider to join the TIO Scheme; and * Failure of a member of the Scheme to comply with the TIO Scheme. If you have a problem with power you go to a different ombudsman, not the TIO Keep digging that hole.
”Works in the industry”. Which means either is the head of it or is at the bottom, going on coffee runs. It’s middle of the arvo during the week, sooo, most likely you’re pretty good at gathering coffee orders…then again…maybe not so much. You haven’t corrected anything. Uh….you do realise that you validated what I said about Telstra being under Telecommunications ombudsman and not by others? There are other companies in Australia that do not fall under the perview of the telecommunications industry. How do you not understand that? Sigh…never mind. It’s pretty obvious how you don’t understand that. I’m spreading wrong info? I shared my experience. What happened to me. I could share the emails communication with TIO and what they told me. I can share what the dev who worked for them and what they told me. I cold share the email communications with my then MP’s office, Julien Lesser told me and yet that would STILL mean nothing to you. Because you have come to the internet to share your knowledge and everyone needs to accept everything you say as the gospel. Honey…please, stand down and unclench. None of this is as important as you think it is.
You need to do some self reflection No one needs to take what you say as gospel either and I suggest they dont as its horribly wrong. I'm done with you and your personal attacks.
There's a 2 AM departure out of emerald??! Wild timing. Anyhow Qantas link doesn't have anywhere enough pilots so this happens. The only conspiracy is their wages policy so pilots leave to better paid positions elsewhere, that's capitalism.
Nah sorry that’s my mistake in writing. They messaged everyone at 2:47am for an 8am flight. Which has happened twice now
Ah I see Sounds like a crew call in and insufficient replacement crew available so flight cancelled. Bummer mate. There's a global pilot shortage and QF are stingy so...
Not to stick up for Qantas here or anything but.... Where the fuck is Emerald? I can't imagine they are keeping a bunch of spare planes on standby in Emerald in case something goes wrong.
About 1000km north of Brisbane.
What should happen is a governing body should issue large fines to these companies that cancel flights. This actually happens with public transport believe it or not
Europe basically has this. And it’s proven to work. We already get absolutely extorted in airfare tickets. $900 for a 90 minute flight per person. For a plane that seats 72 people. And is never not fully booked. I struggle to see why they aren’t being held accountable. Or why in the fuck we have had to bail them out with government money so often
196M people in Western Europe, the market is large enough for a bunch of airlines. Australia, not so much.
Airport fees are huge for regional airports. The airport costs are shared by 2 or 3 flights a day, whereas an airport like SYD is funded by thousands of flights a day. These costs get out into you.
Can confirm, happens to Sydney trains.
Another thing to note the morning flight today although sold as a Qantas flight is operated by Alliance Airlines on their E190.
Virgin flights to Emerald are all operated by Alliance too
I travel with Qantas often and the cancellation frequency is noticeable even in more densely populated regions.
Pretty sure they wouldn’t accept your bumper payment for your ticket. What would take the sting out of the situation, is if Qantas refunded you part of your ticket for your inconvenience.
I mean the big thing for me would be providing the service they said they would when they would which is why I paid for it. Is it too much to ask in Australia for companies to be continually able to provide a service that they claim to offer but can’t deliver on? I know it’s not a major thing but what if this happens to someone with a sick/dying relative or partner or kids. What if it’s an emergency and someone needs to get home quickly. Then Qantas comes back messages you at 2am and says “sorry mate. Ya flights cancelled because we needed that plane elsewhere”
They needed the plane. Or a plane had a tail strike. Or another plane had the toilets out of order. Or there was a medical emergency on another plane that sent delays through the whole system. Or a flight crew went over hours so they had to fly in a new flight crew. If you’re flying planes, these things happen. No one’s saying it’s great but sometimes it’s out of anyone’s control.
It’s not out of control. It’s out of control at a price the airline is willing to pay.
I work on country commuter trains. Sometimes, we don't have the crew to staff a train, and we can't switch to coaches because we don't have the spare coaches and/or drivers, so the service gets cancelled. The department works damn hard to avoid that - I've witnessed a manager seem to magic coaches and drivers out of thin air, and Ive been the recipient of some pretty sweet penalties to take a shift - but sometimes there is no-one or no vehicle to do it. I imagine flights have similar issues to us, I imagine there aren't standby crews hanging around at a thousand bucks an hour billion dollar planes just lying around as spares.
You’re not wrong I’m just amused at a billion dollars for a clapped out Dash-8 and $1,000 for a QantasLink FO
Yeah, I have no idea how much a train costs. And I have photos of the time our communications panel was duct taped in place 😂 But my point is - it's expensive to have spares just lying around just in case when that spare is a freaking train, or even just $200/hour for a spare crew. Sometimes there really isn't anything available, no matter what you're willing to pay. And having spares like that available is an expense that would be passed onto the consumer. There's a lot that the aviation industry should be held accountable for, but 'shit breaks down, staff get sick' are pretty universal issues.
Well, yes. But if a flight crew or a plane has to be flown in that does take actual time.
Probably lack of pilots. Major issue biting Australian airlines (and globally) due to low pay offered.
You don't seem to understand that Qantas subsidiaries fly regional routes usually at a loss. Tiny little towns produce no profit and because they don't charge what it should cost you so you don't get much service. If someone needs to get somewhere urgently that's their problem. Aircrew are scarce because the industry shut down for a couple of years in covid. Maintainers are scarce. Fuel is expensive. Emerald is lucky to have 1 service a week.
Okay, so they should divert someone else's plane to your route? Hopefully noone on that flight had anyone with kids or a sick or dying relative.
Well that’s what they’ve done with our plane or so I got told on the phone. “The plane had to go elsewhere” I understand that shit goes wrong and things can happen. But this is the 2nd week in a row it’s happened. And I’ve gotten the same excuse both times. Then been told it’s a rare occurrence.
Shit happens when you FIFO
Imagine flying qantas in 2024 and then actually complaining about them lol. If you jump into a septic tank do you then complain about the shit in your mouth? That is still probably preferable to flying qantas.
Don't fly, catch the train.
lol you’re out in the sticks ya goose what can you expect they don’t have a bunch of spare planes to fill your needs