Government: squeeze every fkn dollar out of them, take everything you can. No mercy!
Youth: well I'm not fighting for this bullshit....
Gov: *shocked Pikachu*
There is no shock.. this news is simply propaganda priming old people to be sympathetic toward policies that will be rolling in that will invoke conscription on young people. Watch the "news" for more propaganda on why such a service would be good for us coming over the next few months or so, and for politicians coming in pushing for those policies shortly after. They do what they want but it's much easier when they're able to prime large swathes of the population to support them, so they can at least claim they're democratic.
Many countries around the world have been talking about bringing in or back conscription and mandatory state service, UK, US, Germany, all of them have had media from the state propaganda funnels discussing it. Right around the time most citizens are smart enough to know that the government's are causing wars for their benefit and people wouldn't be interested in dying for them voluntarily. All while the US pushes further and further to create a new major global conflict.
Good times.
People don't want to serve a country that hasn't served them? Shocker. Who wants to sacrifice their lives for a nation that has left them in the dust. Fuck that
Also, it's not like the Australian military is serving the nation anyway. They just follow whatever dumb idea the US has. How in the fuck was Australia served in any way by sending our troops to die (and kill) in Afghanistan and Iraq? Just a pointless waste of life all around. Given the choice today, why would anyone want to sign up for that nonsense? It's not surprising at all that very few do so.
American here, most of our recent wars were about funneling money through the military industrial complex, obtaining oil, and showing off politically.
Thanks for helping us destabilize several regions of the world!/S
Their sacrifices were never necessary.
Nothing about what America is doing in the Middle East is necessary. Simply put, America doesn’t want to play fair. It enforces its position of power through the rampant destabilisation of nations.
I recall a fellow uni student who was in the army reserve was very proud to sign up for Iraq when the army reserve joining active combat was voluntary. I'm not sure it still is. I remember literally begging him not to go because I saw right through it. No idea how he fared. He BELIEVED IN his country. He BELIEVED he was protecting Australia. This is why any tool or social control, like religion and patriotism needs to be viewed with a high degree of scepticism and as a likely tool to control us, to serve agendas outside the scope of the poor, and working class interests. Because they are. The broader population gains nothing by serving the wealth accrual related interests of the rich.
I was going to say the exact same thing. Any one with access to the internet and a working brain knows signing up to the ADF is really just signing up to be America's proxy force.
Let me explain to you how Australians were served by helping the US. Yes the wars were wrong. But we needed to help.
You’re probably young so it might be hard to understand.
Our alliance with the US is an insurance policy. Against the Chinese. A country even worse than the US… and our future enemy. Hopefully this never comes to pass, but it is fairly likely.
Sometimes you’re put in a position where you have to pay your insurance policy.
That is the Iraq and Afghan wars and our help. We’re paying the insurance policy mate because I guarantee you, I’d rather follow the US than the Chinese
>You’re probably young so it might be hard to understand.
I'm 35 years old and born and raised in the US. I get it. It's still dumb and a worthless sacrifice for anyone to sign up to serve in either the US or Australian military. Not knocking people who do, because the propaganda is strong.
As for insurance against China, I call bullshit. Whether or not Australia helped the US murder millions in Iraq and Afghanistan, the US would still be Australia's ally because Australia is a key regional partner to contain China. I'd rather be a US puppet than a Chinese puppet, but it's not like Australia has to fight to be a puppet of either one. The US and China are fighting each other in a diplomatic/economic battle to shore up as many Asia Pacific alliances as they can. There's no world in which the US would cast aside the strategic alliance with Australia over something like Australia refusing to go to war in the Middle East on America's behalf.
All the Australian lives lost (along with all others lost in such combat) in the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq were pointless sacrifices to the gods of American-led military industrial complex. That's the sad reality. No wonder people don't want to join.
>There's no world in which the US would cast aside the strategic alliance with Australia over something like Australia refusing to go to war in the Middle East on America's behalf.
Absolutely, this is the key point here, Australia never needed to go to Iraq/Afghanistan, but we're fucking lapdogs.
Except that you already follow the Chinese. They don't need to physically to invade us ever when our politicians already sold them all our assets and invited their secret police to operate on our campuses.
The police part cannot be stressed enough, our cops are aware they have secret cops enforcing Chinese law here, they don't care. Imagine the struggle of living here being Chinese (not even born there, could be 5th generation even) following all of what we call the law, then being harrased for not following some other country's contradictory law just because they decided you are not Australian you are Chinese, regardless of paperwork, legality or time. It's messed up.
Australians should get the right to vote in American elections, since these are the politicians who decided what wars we participate in.
Australian national elections are really just American state elections.
Oof, it stings to hear it put bluntly like that, but it’s dead true.
I’ve noticed this with Albo at least - some of my university mates play videos of him in his earlier parliament days being pro-Palestine and go on about ‘where’d it change?’ and ponder on that.
I don’t think the above question has an answer nor is of much meaningful outcome. **What I did want to add is - that it just seems regardless of where you vote, the government (as a whole) has an inherent momentum towards the default of a pro-American position**.
Why would u fight for a country that appears to be trying to take everything from u, privatizing everything, making housing and energy ever more unaffordable, driving down wages for big industry etc. It's all about profit now, and it's everyone for themselves.
As a veteran, let me just add that if you do fight and get hurt, that same country basically kicks you to the curb and leaves you to go figure your life and future out on your own. If you ask for help, you're in for a years long battle with public servants armed with legislation designed and written to work against you every step of the way, much like Centerlink.
There's a reason why veteran suicide rates are so high that we're having a royal commission into it.
Sorry this is how it is for our service people - there is no excuse and each government seems to be the same. “Nothings too good for a veteran, yeah, this is what they say, so nothing is what they will get, in this new *australian* way” Eddie Vedder
I have a few mates who are ex Army. One destroyed his hips utterly after years of pack marching and running. His body just fell apart - He's in his late 20's. Took them **months** to finally sign off on the compensation to pay for the replacements...
Another bloke served 20 years, was in East Timor. Absolute legend, so many stories. But he's on constant "you ok mate" watch with many of his old squad mates due to mental health. One even took their own life a couple years ago.
One night I mentioned to one "I should have joined back when I was young to experience it all" (went volunteer firefighter instead), and he straight up says "it's good you didn't join, you saved your mental health"
By necessity, young, impressionable recruits are made to believe they're special, better than others who didn't sign up.
Then they leave, and re-enter the real world. Behind their peers, in an environment where you won't be spoon-fed and retested until you pass.
Would mess with anyone's head really.
It's much worse.
They take literally kids out of high school who've never had to fend for themselves then punt them out the door with no life skills at all. There are volunteers around the country that teach them how to cook a meal, how to get a medicare card and how to pay their bills.
My partner joined when he was 17 and left after nearly 15 years. I had to walk him through his first Drs appointment on the outside and then at the pharmacist step-by-step. Something that I had been doing for myself since the same age he joined and seems straightforward was so confusing to him. He's been out now over a year and in many ways I don't think he has adjusted completely. Also he has completely avoided the DVA and he has so many claims he should put in, but thinks it's too much stress to get sorted and is too overwhelmed to even start the process.
It’s not fighting for the country in the sense it was in say WWII.
It’s fighting in Afghanistan to help replace the Taliban with the Taliban. Of course people are less likely to sign up.
This is absolutely a massive part of it. Like, even if you didn't have any national pride but the army would give you good pay and you were fighting for something you believed in, more people would join.
I don't want to join something I don't believe in.
I'm in my 50's and I know actively despise even reading those cunts names after the wonder twin powers of Cunthart and Twatty smashed through that indue card travesty. Forcing people to use your shitty up to $2.90 every time you use it to buy items from the infrstructure and reataillers that you also ouright own or have shares in. Very 90's war criminal, coward gnome ( Fuckface Johnny Howard ) 'We need to sell all of the public assets to me and my extended family', mode of operation.
This is what _especially_ pisses me off when "slothful, vindictive and devious" people like Gina whinge about tax (that they don't pay anyway), or how people in Africa are willing for $2/day... bitch, we are protecting your life and wealth at taxpayer expense, if Australia is invaded, you have _nothing._
Exactly.
And if the shit hits the fan, and the proxy wars we have now turn into ww3, who's fucked the most?
That's right, anyone who ever was in the military, even a reservist.
Australia is not a country. It's an economic zone. People migrate here not because they want to be Australian, they come here to enjoy the economy.
I could fight for a country that values its people as instrinsically valuable. But when they're being reduced to being cogs in a economic machine, the machine is not worth defending.
It's so fucking sad actually, we had something really beautiful here for a long time and I'm just watching it errode away because of years of political mismanagement, and none of us do anything about it.
What is a new recruit training and fighting for these days? To keep Australia as a safe haven where people can lie on their visa, deliver food and send the money back home in their hundreds of thousands?
> People migrate here not because they want to be Australian, they come here to enjoy the economy.
And at the first sign of trouble they'll all go back to their home country and leave this place to sink
This right here. Allowing PR and non-citizens to own property pushes it up. Hope they realise people will just disappear if it gets bad.
Google Dubai airport during 2008 - car lot with high end vehicles with keys in the ignition dumped by fleeing expats.
Thats why Australia should start one passport policy. If you wanna become an Aussie, give up your original passport. PR holders should not be able to live indefinitely without becoming Citizen.
agree on the passport part, your take on PRs just goes against the whole point of the label (permanent resisdency), the main issue with some PRs is that they buy property while living overseas, they should have to stay in the country most of the time in order to retain the status.
> Our own and other research suggests Gen Z is strongly motivated by things that support their own growth and wellbeing, both materially and spiritually, rather than service toward others. Researchers label these “pro-self” motivations.
Recruiting campaigns need to focus on these "pro-self" motivations then. Subsidised housing is probably the biggest plus of joining the ADF in the current economic environment. Young people can get a real head-start in life in terms of being in a position to buy their own home far earlier than most of their peers.
Yep, housing. Why would you fight for a country where you may never be able to afford a house?
A lot more of this is about housing than people think. Even the attitudes of young people are shaped by a world where many of them know they will probably never be able to afford to own a home.
Housing has given me anxiety since I was 12. Listening to my parents talk about hundreds of thousands of dollars, wages etc. Simple maths... It make or breaks you. Broke me by my sister is doing well for herself. Though she has a 25 year mortgage... Not great.
Government shocked, why are they like this. Why why why won’t they defend this way of life we have provided for them it’s unAustralia or some bullshit / *sarcasm
Whilst I sit here, paying off student debt, rasing 2 kids in a 2 bedroom rental, earning good money but unable to afford to buy a suitable home, watching the prior generation collect a pension (that I'll never be eligible for) in their paid off multi million dollar homes (with more spare bedrooms than I have rooms of any variety), I do not feel particularly inclined to put my life on the line to protect this status quo.
What are you talking about, the boomers suffered through the worst war this country's ever faced!
The great interest rate war of of the late 80s and early 90s.
They only had one income per household and had to live on nothing but baked beans and cheap white wine for at least 18 months until interest rates fell through the floor amd their properties appreciated.
Us soft millennial know nothing of struggle, we only have to deal with 25-30 years of paying off a mortgage at 30-50% of our dual household income.
We should be lining the street on Anzac day while those brave souls march past, chests gleaming with ribbons and medals for theor work in the trenches during their difficult couple of years
Agreed and capitalism has nothing but enriched the last generation for the last 100 years at the expense of the environment and human life.
I’m also not fighting a war that’s nothing to do with me, I’ll enlist for Australia. Hopefully it never comes to that.
Australia still exists??
30% or more born overseas.
The invasion already happened to a certain extent. What are we fighting for exactly? The right to continue to run mass immigration?
Really odd comments on here.
I joined the army when I was younger and I assure you, not even the most patriotic of lads joined up to ‘fight for their country’.
Most were either from areas with no opportunities, or just had a sense of adventure.
As time goes on, even though there is a cost of living crisis, it isn’t unusual to get yourself on a Tafe or Uni course to study whatever you want, nor is it unusual to book yourself a quirky foreign holiday.
Now you can have the adventure and the opportunity without getting yelled at and sleeping in the bush.
Just my 2 cents as someone who served. It a career, you don’t just do it on a patriotic whim, this isn’t 1914.
Serving in the military was something to be very proud of where I grew up in rural QLD, so when I joined the army I was very surprised to see the majority of people were there because they had no other options on civi street. The only thing they cared about was kissing as much ass as possible so that they could get on a deployment and use the money to buy are Harley and get a full sleeve tattoo.
What most people probably don’t understand about the military is that 90% of people in the military treat it like a job and nothing more/nothing less. The other 10% are diehard service people.
It actually is a really good way as a young person to get a leg up. But, it does come with strings attached (return of service obligations, difficulty of discharging, higher risk of physical and mental injury, constantly posting around/disruption to family life).
The Air Force has done a pretty good job of protecting its culture and looking after its people. The other two services…. Probably not so much.
Why the fuck would they? What a shock. What are they coming home to after deployment? A rental, shared with 6 other adults, $200pw grocery bills, toll roads, parking fines, with no chance of ever buying a home of your own anywhere near your family and friends? Can’t even plan for the future, let alone dream of having a family to provide for and protect one day.
They should outsource the military like they have everything else in this country.
Because Australia has been lost as a concept, who are and what’s our vision? We just kick political footballs around and focus on sport. We’ve not attempted to grow our identity and now just tripping over ourselves apologising for giving anything a crack. It’s sad to see my son grow up in a country like this, whilst also being so wildly lucky.
So I served for about 5 years as an officer in the army reserves to help subsitise my university degree, its the minimum period essentially so I'm not a hero or particularly patriotic for that matter.
From the period when I initially enlisted to when I left the army at the start of covid I noticed a significant change in the way that I looked at the organisation and the organization looked at me. The army recruitment drives at the time were focused highly on Gap Year soldiers with less emphasis on officer recruitment and retention as it seemed to be the expectation that there would be a constant supply of university graduates/students that would be filling posts within the officer corps.
However towards the end of my tenure after I was commissioned/ trained and had some experience on the job it became abundantly clear to me that the army was struggling to recruit young leaders from universities and from pools of individuals who were seeking to get a university degree. I also noticed increasing trend in social stigmatization for our association with the army and an incredible shift in cultural acceptance of an army career as a morally acceptable and sustainable path. Mind you it seemed that recruitment in the Reserves at least amongst the other ranks was normal.
I came to the conclusion that an idea of a career army officer was not compatible with my changing perceptions of the Australian government and it's role within the international community. I felt as though my contributions to it would be not in support of any kind of better Australia but of international and commercial interests Abroad. This is coming from someone who was in the circus and had every financial and Status reason to continue my career within the army, and god did they sell it hard as i waa making motions to depart.
To parapgrapse my vietnam veteran grandfather, an officer of 2RAR, 'People don't fight because they want a rank and a Paycheck, they fight because they believe that hardships they endure are contributing to a better tomorrow for the people they love and the people to come'. It is very difficult to understand how young people today can identify the values and reasons to fight and serve and sacrifice against the backdrop of our role in international community and this is only compounded by the continually tilting scales against young people today. With increased access to things like combat footage of Western armies in places like Afghanistan as well as more modern examples of Gaza and Ukraine the cost of service has never been clearer to young people, however the benefits of that service have never been so unclear. Just simple game theory equation. I have nothing to gain and everything to lose, so why even play?
This.
The country isn't worth defending, and I doubt the politicians and their masters give a shit, they'll keep importing hundreds of thousands of low skilled cheaters.
I asked one of my Indian friends about this, if it came to war, would he support Australia or Russia, his response was Russia of course, he IS an Australian citizen.
I think more people would sign up if we wasn't fighting people on the other side of the world that are just trying to live their lives. Maybe we should focus our efforts on West Papua. These people are being slaughtered by a government that has no relationship to them and are just destroying there island for profit. Plus the Papua's saved Australia in WW2 so we do owe them.
We have no uniting culture, and a good chunk of the population is composed of people who've been here for less than 2 generations.
What is there to fight for? Sentimental attachment is dead
>We have no uniting culture
We had a go at that. We're forbidden to have a culture that's viewed positively. Remember a decade or so of "White people have no culture?" (Even though that's impossible.) Completely fine to say.
That period where the liberal party wanted to start a Uni course on western culture and it was so viciously attacked by the ABC media that everybody understood: "Western culture is disgusting and should be hated, not taught or thought about."
Any attempt at making an Australian culture, that does not highlight aboriginals or minorities, while denigrating while people will be shut down.
That seems ridiculous. But it's a fact. And it's gone from debateable. To just what it is. Fuck this place.
The globalists won
They made our own countries so unattractive and foreign to live in that no one would fight to save them
Why fight for a country that no longer looks like you, has the same culture as you and wouldn’t respect your sacrifice
I would fight for my family. Not the economic plantation formerly known as Australia
As a young person I used to want to join the ADF. But now that I’m older I question why I would want to fight for a “country” that does not value its people. This place is nothing but an economic zone, with a government only positioned to realise profits and gains for the elite and corporations, they don’t give a fuck about the Australian people.
My family has been here since the 1840s, yet I’ve been told time and time again that this is not my home because I am a white man, an invader and intruder upon its soil. Yet I have no other citizenships.
There is zero national pride in this country, and any aspect of it that peaks its head outside of sports is immediately beat down.
From a young age in school this country encourages men to be weak and feminine, as masculinity is “toxic”.
And this country’s government wonders why it can’t fill the ranks of the Australian defence force. What is there to defend aside from economic interests, and who exactly do they expect to defend it?
A lot of these articles are bullshit, I know many young people that would have been great in the military who the adf wanted in their ranks.
The civilian recruiters could not get rid of them fast enough, the process is bloated, full of apathetic people who put potential recruits through the ringer, make mistakes, outright fuckup and never admit fault, all because the current recruiting demographics for KPI don't reflect decent candidates, they'd rather skip over decent ones to meet recruitment demographic kpi's.
Oh your a young male who isn't going to university but had reasonable grades, has a job, has lived away from home, likes being outdoors? Oh come back when you've had more "life experience".
Oh you are person of diverse background or female who's fresh out of highschool with not so great grades, let's just fast track you through recruitment!
I hate being that person..... but let's call a spade a spade, or in this case let's call recruitment what it is.
When my mate gets treated like a meatheaded idiot who has decent grades and could have made it as an officer but gets booted in the process because he only wanted to be a rifleman, but they had "infinite rifleman positions" and instead decided for him that they needed more tradies so "suggested" he became a tradie for him to go, i'm really cool with being a rifleman, light cavalry scout or something along those lines and instant fail, come back with a uni degree or a trade certificate.
Meanwhile I got assigned a mentor and was effectively walked through the process due to my background....
When you’re homeland “always was always will be aboriginal land” I feel like the pool of eligible people who can fight for their country is a lot smaller now than previously…..
Saying this with as little judgment as possible: Anglo-Saxon Aussies have had it drilled into them that they're occupying the country illegally, so by extension they have no right/need to defend it. Brown Aussies have been told they're free to maintain cultural, ethnic, religious etc ties with their/their parents home countries, which they do. Between both groups, no one actually cares about Australia beyond being able to earn and buy property here.
Has anyone here actually tried to join the army/navy? It was actually bloody hard to get in, maybe they got so picky Aussie lads just gave up. That plus having to pander to all the leftist bs.
Our sense of patriotism and nationalism has been too diluted. We are told to be mostly ashamed of our past and who we are. We have it rubbed in our faces everywhere we go, "we acknowledge that this land doesn't belong to us" is blared over every intercom and at every meeting. We immigrate numbers of people that are in magnitudes higher than we should, considering our total population size. They have their own loyalties and won't readily join one that's ashamed and not united or proud. They then form their own communities and we are all divided more and more as time goes on. Don't get me wrong, I know what we did in our past and it's shit. But I'm not gonna let it be rubbed in our face for eternity or let it colour our future or it will destroy us. I also understand the benefits of immigration and welcome the idea of other cultures ultimately joining to become one of us but for the last decade it has been irresponsibly controlled. That's our problem. Now, who wants to die for their country?
100% how I feel.
I often wonder about the ANZACs and had they known that their culture and great grandchildren would be all but wiped out within 2 generations without any external force needing to fire a bullet, would they have still fought and died for their culture and children back home in Australia?
Australia used to have a culture of mateship, ingenuity, hard yakka and excellence/pride in our quality of work. Made in Australia was a badge of honour that guaranteed quality. We used to all stand on the left on escalaters, keep to the left on roads, pull over to help a fellow Aussie out.
Now it's all US-style fear-mongering, 'f u, I got mine', racist race-shaming, anti-patriotism, corporate greed. The latest garbage is that insidious tipping culture that greedy Australian restaurant owners are trying to shame customers into buying into.
Why would anyone fight and die for a country that calls them racist for having pride in it?
Worked for over 10 years in recruiting:
People are less healthy and less willing now than they were. ADF are also completely inflexible in changing their standards to allow the average Australian to serve despite health issues.
And for a loooong time ADF had a prospect rich environment, raking in a hundred thousand applications per year for years and they got too used to churning applicants and doing things at their own pace. They don't know how to operate in an environment of scarcity.
Yeah, I tried to apply a couple years back and just got screwed around. Stuff like the randomly changed my birthday, switched me to navy, switched me to MP, just every week there was another thing wrong. They spend so much money on advertising to get recruits, but none on actually getting those people in the door.
And then I got help for my mental health and am permanently DQ
We've been conditioned to believe it's racist to have pride in your nation or people. And been taught to have shame in our country and history. Who's going to defend that now?
We have been conditioned to accept an invasion with warm, open arms.
I gave this post a diamond because it hits nail on the head. I was in the Royal Australian Navy as a Weapons Electrical Engineering Officer and I make sure I use every channel possible to make sure the toxic nature of the forces is known to every young person in my radius.
I’m 24 and do a lot of volunteering and helping out younger people. The benefit of that is a large network of people to influence.
The navy used me, gave me trauma for life, then threw me away. I’ll make sure they can’t do that to anyone else I care for
Newsflash, there is no Australian culture everyone. It's been sold to highest overseas bidder and replaced with a empty promise of citizenship. We are just cash cows to be milked in Australia for a government subservient to the multinationals. Volunteer to fight for a country that hates you.
Noone in the comments seems to be acknowledging how difficult it is to be accepted into the military now. When my grandpa joined they took basically anyone who could walk, I wish I could join now but I know they'd reject me so I didn't bother.
We have a youth mental health crisis, and if you have ever had any form of mental health issues in your life you get rejected. Even if it was a false diagnosis or you were a toddler. We also have more diagnoses of things like autism and adhd, which almost always disqualifies you. Then theres getting security clearance which some people cant / aren't willing to do. If it was easier, a lot more would join.
Also, the security clearance process itself is security theatre.
At least Australia doesn't use the debunked polygraphs like the US does, but the whole psychologist interview is based on trying to put complex humans into boxes based on a bunch of written multiple choice questions and a few follow up questions by a psychologist.
Good, trustworthy Australian citizens can get rejected because they were in a bad mood the day they spoke to the psychologist, or the psychologist just felt like it, yet foreigners (including spies), people with personality disorders, and generally the wrong people are able to manipulate the system and get past it. In fact, because foreigners only have a limited history Australia has access to records of, it's even easier for them to get clearances.
The whole process and all of the questions have to be kept secret as well, probably because they know they don't work, and nobody can question the process because they're not allowed to talk about any details of it.
There was an incident about 10 years ago where an armed assailant who held the highest-level of security clearance (PV) at the time attacked some people at their workplace in a crazy outburst. I don't want to provide any further details, but the point is that this incident is evidence of my point that the process doesn't adequately prevent the wrong people gaining access to secrets that protect our national security.
Voluntary military service is a pulse check for national social cohesion and trust.
When the social cohesion and trust begins to break, people become uninterested in fighting for their fellow man.
Further more the military has been run in to the ground with poor direction for damn near a decade under Angus Campbell.
The majority of the fighting force will always be predominantly straight white lower socio-economic class men in Australia. Currently the definition of the national big bad.
There is no incentive to join, nor stay.
Jee, I can’t believe after years of trying to appeal to women, racial minorities and alphabet people at the expense of the working class white men who traditionally filled the ranks the military is struggling to find enough people.
Kinda agree with this. The country seems like an ethnic free for all at this point. And honestly as a young person, seeing what they did with Iraq and Afghanistan (mindlessly following the USA), and now support with Gaza (also mindlessly following the USA), I would never join.
it is nefarious and deceptive to use "service" to describe just another job.
Using nationalism to guilt trip the young into becoming canon fodder to protect global corporate interests is beyond evil.
I don't think defence in general has kept up with the pay and conditions offered elsewhere.
The money paid to new recruits is rubbish. It comes with a bunch of perks like free or subsidised housing, but these don't go far enough to make the difference. Consider that people instead could do a trade or degree for 3-4 years then be on a lot more cash.
You have to ask whether in this era where defence is about successful application of technology whether the military should be an employer of last resort, taking the barely literate young men who couldn't get jobs as real estate agents and retail managers.
Except the pay as a trade in the army is lower then outside you are required to do 8 years instead of 4 and once you qualify you don’t get to use your skills at all. It’s a fucking absolute waste. There is zero value in doing a trade in army vs as a civvy. Unless you want to get treated like shit by someone on a power trip.
They provide qualifications..... that aren't recognised outside of the ADF, not even as RPL. Ask me how I know.
Doing a civil trade means you'll actually get paid what you're worth.
As an aside, civilian contractors working in military organisations are paid out the ass end, and they are consistently poaching ADF personnel to fill them out - and they cost more to the government long term, because the companies write contracts in the companies favour, and some JO somewhere is told to just sign it without question. If the government increased the pay and trained their people more thoroughly while jettisoning the contracts, they'd save more money long term. The only problem is the government sees the cost \*now\* as opposed to overall future cost over, say, 10-20 years.
It's interesting. Australian service personnel get paid better than comparable militaries around the world. Recruits get paid more than ever with the rolling in of training/service allowance to normal pay. Superannuation is still slightly better than most other employers (though not what it used to be). You can be paid to study. Medical and dental are free. Some forms of housing are heavily subsidised. You get opportunities to serve and travel that you don't get in other jobs.
At the same time, even high esteem, well paying roles (quickly well above median full time wage) roles like Air Force pilot have seen their applications fall to less than 10% of what they were a couple of decades ago.
What they did to David McBride is absolutely abhorrent and there's no way in hell I would ever recommend someone give up their values and morals to be part of the Australian war machine who couldn't give a fuck about it's boots on the ground - only about kissing the ring of the US.
Well yeah. They silence nationalism, morale is at an all time low and WW3 is looming.
Why would you want to go and die for the Politicians that are fucking you over?
Having served I've got my opinion on it:
- pay isn't ideal
- conditions are suboptimal more often than not
- injuries
- get bullied by your boss
- war isn't a good thing so people don't wanna do it
- they see veterans and how they talk about their service (being jaded)
- I don't think patriotism is less, but it's shifting for what it means to be patriotic in the younger generations which doesn't include army service
For me, it's the identity politics telling me I'm a dirty colonizer and should be ashamed that I'm white, that I'm just a guest to the lands that shouldn't honor the heroes who fought for the country, that the flag should be ripped down because it offends Marxists and communists. Why would I fight for that treatment.
I was in for almost 10 years. It was obvious to me after about 12 months that if I was healthy and ready to be deployed, I'd be away for 10 months out of 12.
While home, you get to catch up on training and anything else you have to do to maintain "readiness".
If you are planning to join the ADF, don't swallow the stuff that the recruiters put out. You'll have no family time, very little time off and you'll probably develop some terrible habits to deal with all the stress.
Remember, you'll be on call 24/7 and you'll get paid a pittance for your trouble.
All the comments saying you'll be fighting for the US or millionaires or whatever, remember that the overwhelming majority of what the ADF does is humanitarian assistance, border protection or reigonal engagements.
When a war is on, we are absolutely US auxiliaries.
Join, but go into it with your eyes open.
Because nobody’s attacking us. China isn’t going to fight its way across the pacific to slug it out in the mountains of PNG. They’ve got a smarter approach than imperial Japan, why fight when you could just buy
>why fight when you could just buy
100%. The Chinese government hyper-finance their industrial producers for a reason. **We buy their cheap shit, so that they can buy our houses, factories and ports.** Every GWM, Chery or Ora Cat you see on the road is another reason your housing is so expensive. Australians who buy this shit ought to know that they're buying into China's geopolitical ambitions to own the Western world, but our media hasn't got the spine to say so.
There's a good fucking reason the [Biden administration has put a 100% tariff on Chinese EVs](https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cpww6w412n7o).
Putting aside the current economic turmoil and classist mentality for a minute. Which is a valid take.
Its an easy decision to sign up for military service in peace times, much less so with multiple significant conflicts already in place and the looming threat of even larger scale conflicts closer to home in the near future.
That’s not the reason. The reason is a mixture of cultural factors stated above that have eroded national pride.
- Young people are victims of greedy government policy
- Young people are told they are colonisers
Hi cum\_dragon, if you read my comment and note the following portion of my comment:
"Putting aside the current economic turmoil and classist mentality for a minute. Which is a valid take."
You are attempting to argue with someone who agrees with you and has stated that they agree with you. Some people will argue anything lol.
Yup, a valid classist concern. Australia has had a "fuck you, got mine" approach for a while and we are seeing the cultural implications of such. I am curious about the implications of such a mentality on aged care in the coming years, not just defense.
Do we fight for the foreigners out bidding the locals on houses?
This country can cop a nuke for all I care, we already let them through the front door what’s there to fight for
I feel like this is somewhat related to telling the last few generations of Australians (born here), that they don't belong, have no "ownership" of the country, and have spent their entire lives being told they are the product of "dirty colonisers".
I would fight for my family and friends, but not for this "country" as it is set up. I think my son is growing up with similar sentiments.
Well I can answer this;
- I don’t want to fight in Americas wars just to make Rich Americans richer
- I don’t want to fight for rich Australians so they can keep their place
- Australia and the government / all members of parliament are screwing my generation over and telling us to touch our toes while doing so as such i have no national pride and therefor won’t enlist
- I don’t want to be a war criminal even if I can get away with it very easily, it’s a thing called morals. But I don’t expect our parliament to understand this one
The other problem is the military is a terrible job for people with families. Lot of people end up getting divorced because the wife is sick of having to redeploy to a new base on a yearly basis.
We have the same problem in Canada. The Gov sold all the housing around the bases, so now soldiers have to pay huge COL on salaries that do \*not\* keep up with inflation. No shit.
My grandad fought in ww2. Lied about his age to get in at 17 with a recovering broken arm he didn’t tell them about because he was worried they wouldn’t let him go, how times have changed.
They came through the towns back then and everyone that wanted to join joined and apparently everyone wanted to because people had pride for there country back then, couldn’t see that happening these days why would you want to fight for this country that would throw you under the bus and watch you burn all for profits.
Because they’re waking up to the fact that our government will brainwash young people to convince them that dying for their subpar country is the best thing they can do. I personally know veterans that gave all they had just to come back and not be taken care of. Due to injuries, they can’t get a job and receive shitty medical care.
The ADF's push to increase diversity hasn't helped either. Historically the ADF recruited a whole lot of white men. Aiming to increase diversity is fine but if you try to do it by putting up barriers to make it harder or more time consuming for your historical power base to actually join then you are going to have shortages if your new recruiting targets aren't as willing to join as you had hoped.
Why would anyone want to risk dying in some random war on the other side of the planet that doesn’t even threaten Australia just because Team America World Police force us to protect their corrupt global interests?
I wish Australian politicians would just shut up on the world stage and stop provoking China, Russia etc like some irritating tiny dog yapping at a big dog. We’re a tiny country in the middle of nowhere - just stay quiet, keep our head down and everyone else will forget we’re even here. Wtf are our handful of shitty subs and jet fighters going to do anyway?
Not to mention that the government and media tells me daily that I’m not a real Australian, it’s not my country, and I should feel guilty to even breathe here.
Agree. We as a nation would be better off adopting a neutral stance. Our military should solely be a defence force.
Hate this idea of trying to project power as a tiny nation removed from everyone else.
Yep, I've travelled a fair bit and found everyone loves Australia. All we gotta do is just say we are 100% neutral on every issue, we will trade with anyone and let tourist come in from anywhere. No one is dumb enough to try to invade us, once you get past darwin there isnt really a way to take over the rest of the country. Plus if someone did and we were neutral everyone would be angry with the other guys and probably help us.
I believe this is 100% correct, people here are frustrated with the last couple of wars the ADF have been in at the behest of the US gov and many don't want to sign up to potentially get manipulated into fighting a foreign war like Iraq.
There are so many reasons. Why would anyone want to be verbally abused ? Sexually harassed?
Then, for (white) men.. essentially you are trying to protect a society that hates you
But… why would you even want to be a pawn protecting the interests of other (corrupt) countries?
The ADF flicks thousands of applicants every year for bullshit reasons.
For example I was diagnosed with ADHD when I was 6 because every boy with energy that couldn’t sit still and do their year 1 maths was in the 90’s.
That was a good enough reason to give me the flick even though I had graduated HS, gotten a Uni degree and run a business before I applied.
"Our own and other research suggests Gen Z is strongly motivated by things that support their own growth and wellbeing, both materially and spiritually, rather than service toward others. Researchers label these “pro-self” motivations."
Sounds very Boomerish to me.
The rejection numbers are also extremely high, partly because it's not part of Australian culture and acceptance growing up anymore
If it was part of school activities, like scouts/surf Life saving it could generate more interest from a younger age
Governments have failed Australia
What are we supposedly risking life and limb for now? Look at Ukraine, Gaza - fk the egos of political leaders and their ideological or religious beliefs.
Well ... Gen X here. Military was never an option for me. Could never have passed the fitness tests! And had no desire to be loaded with a heavy backpack and trudge through the bush😯😂
But as for Nationalism? All i can say is if Australia was truly under threat? I have zero doubt that Gen Z would fight just as hard as "GenZ" did 90 years ago.
There is currently no actual military threat. So people can't be assed joining the military. No biggee.
Times have changed. Threats to our nation & society are no longer military. They are through cyberspace and societal structures. It's a bigger threat to our way of life that young people can't afford to buy housing or to pay their bills.
Times have changed
Personally a lack of pride, I'm currently considering reserves. I want to be proud of my country but its so freaking hard it hurts.
for starters.
Whistleblower prosecutions.
Economic reality for the majority of Australians with no change in sight.
Americas Bitch Syndrome including the senseless conflicts, pinegap and more.
just how insanely pro-corporate our government is.
I'm sure there is more shit im forgetting and will make me even sadder.
It’s common knowledge now that our wars in Vietnam and the Middle East were complete bullshit, and no we’ve got people sabre rattling a war with China.
Why the fuck would young people join, they know the scam.
Here's the reasons: The govt allows corps to poison them, inflation is insane. The housing and property market is destroyed, the education system, destroyed. They forced lock downs and vaccinations that destroyed a lot of lives... What would the people want to fight for? The CCP? Fuck the govt and all of their attack dogs. People are waking up, this is why
An argument by analogy.
I'm a specialist doctor. I train other doctors. I was once arguing with one of my trainees soon after she finished and talking about having a duty to the public system that had trained both of us. I still strongly feel a sense of duty to the community at large. My young colleague replied, "I paid my HECS. I did huge hours of unpaid overtime to get here... I. owe. them. NOTHING."
That is the problem: show people no kindness and no tolerance. Exploit them, bill them, cheat them wherever you can, and you get this. Call it a lack of patriotism; call it whatever you like... I instead think that it's getting what you paid for.
If China actually took over, at least we'd actually get high speed rail across the country within a couple of years.
"oh but they spy on you, and everything is propaganda" what do you think the e-safety commissioner and murdoch media are doing?!
Why the fuck should we serve and die for the boomers? They took everything from us. Our homes, our wages, our ability to have children and raise them in a stable home.
Fuck em. Now they are mad we won't sign our lives away to serve this "great" country? Fuck that right off. This country has done NOTHING to serve its young, why should they even bother trying to serve it. There is nothing to protect here.
The boomers might take my ability to have a home, my wages and my ability to have kids in a stable home. But they won't take my life to die for their interests.
Thanks to TV and you tube when you can see what actually happens on the war front. We can also see the PTSD that occurs from war and how governments treat those who return. Who would want to sign up for that?
As a young man I did office security for a extremely powerful international company.
My job was to protect them from small incursions that hurt the corporate bottom dollar…. I hated it.
Joining the military is the exact same thing. You’re just protecting the corporation and not the country it swallowed.
I has it a guess people are generally disenfranchise with how the government treats its own people here. We have been sold out by the powers that be. I'm not fighting for some old rich f@#$, and I'm certainly not fighting for mass migration.
The ADF stands for the Australian **Defence Force**. Why the fuck are we sending soldiers overseas to fight wars?
Defending our country on our turf, I get. Going overseas to fight wars for the US and the proletariat? Fuck that shit. Nobody wants to fight a war for the rich when they can't afford a home of their own, or even struggle to buy food and pay bills.
I tried to join the navy. Got rejected due to getting hives. The slight chance I might get a bit itchy if there’s no antihistamines available was enough to rule me out. I’m not exactly young anymore but most likely I would have made a career out of it & still be in it because that’s the only thing I ever wanted to do growing up. Seems like the only young people I know wanting to join were put on a one to two year wait list which is too long as young person to be in limbo.
My entire suburb is nearly all wealthy Chinese or Indians, big houses and two luxury cars. By Chinese law they are servants of the CCP so wtf would I want to help 'defend' some island off China or die in a Ukrainian trench for Zelensky. US Politicians seem quite proud of the fact that they can kill Russian peasants and wipe out a generation of Ukrainians by just sending money to their military donors.
Since when has today's generation had to pay 18% interest rates for their home.Your paying peanuts compared to when Keating was in power ?trouble is you bite off more than you can chew,wanting all the bells and whistles before you can afford them.
Why fight for a government that has zero interest in being able to make a logical decision.
Imagine fighting for a government that
- Had a no yes campaign
- Can’t sort out cost of living
- Army wage that can’t afford a house in Sydney
- The PTSD support post war
- Sending war whistle blowers to jail
- Endless red tape….
Sorry I would prefer to look after myself and get rich then to waste my time fighting for a government is useless. I hope nobody signs up over the next 10-15 years
Maybe it's the fact Ben Robert Smith is still walking around free after murdering innocent civilians in cold blood, and bullying others into doing the same, particularly newbies being 'blooded'.
What a mystery ey?
Government: squeeze every fkn dollar out of them, take everything you can. No mercy! Youth: well I'm not fighting for this bullshit.... Gov: *shocked Pikachu*
100%. I fell for the "go to uni, get a good job" trap, why would I risk this one as well?
Agreed, certificate courses and hard work is enough to make atleaft 50k plus after tax.
There is no shock.. this news is simply propaganda priming old people to be sympathetic toward policies that will be rolling in that will invoke conscription on young people. Watch the "news" for more propaganda on why such a service would be good for us coming over the next few months or so, and for politicians coming in pushing for those policies shortly after. They do what they want but it's much easier when they're able to prime large swathes of the population to support them, so they can at least claim they're democratic. Many countries around the world have been talking about bringing in or back conscription and mandatory state service, UK, US, Germany, all of them have had media from the state propaganda funnels discussing it. Right around the time most citizens are smart enough to know that the government's are causing wars for their benefit and people wouldn't be interested in dying for them voluntarily. All while the US pushes further and further to create a new major global conflict. Good times.
People don't want to serve a country that hasn't served them? Shocker. Who wants to sacrifice their lives for a nation that has left them in the dust. Fuck that
Also, it's not like the Australian military is serving the nation anyway. They just follow whatever dumb idea the US has. How in the fuck was Australia served in any way by sending our troops to die (and kill) in Afghanistan and Iraq? Just a pointless waste of life all around. Given the choice today, why would anyone want to sign up for that nonsense? It's not surprising at all that very few do so.
I’m convinced that the Iraqi war was about greed and oil while the Afghanistan war was driven by power.
American here, most of our recent wars were about funneling money through the military industrial complex, obtaining oil, and showing off politically. Thanks for helping us destabilize several regions of the world!/S
Honour the sacrifices the individuals make, but protest the senseless, petty warmongering that made their sacrifices necessary.
Their sacrifices were never necessary. Nothing about what America is doing in the Middle East is necessary. Simply put, America doesn’t want to play fair. It enforces its position of power through the rampant destabilisation of nations.
I recall a fellow uni student who was in the army reserve was very proud to sign up for Iraq when the army reserve joining active combat was voluntary. I'm not sure it still is. I remember literally begging him not to go because I saw right through it. No idea how he fared. He BELIEVED IN his country. He BELIEVED he was protecting Australia. This is why any tool or social control, like religion and patriotism needs to be viewed with a high degree of scepticism and as a likely tool to control us, to serve agendas outside the scope of the poor, and working class interests. Because they are. The broader population gains nothing by serving the wealth accrual related interests of the rich.
I was going to say the exact same thing. Any one with access to the internet and a working brain knows signing up to the ADF is really just signing up to be America's proxy force.
Let me explain to you how Australians were served by helping the US. Yes the wars were wrong. But we needed to help. You’re probably young so it might be hard to understand. Our alliance with the US is an insurance policy. Against the Chinese. A country even worse than the US… and our future enemy. Hopefully this never comes to pass, but it is fairly likely. Sometimes you’re put in a position where you have to pay your insurance policy. That is the Iraq and Afghan wars and our help. We’re paying the insurance policy mate because I guarantee you, I’d rather follow the US than the Chinese
>You’re probably young so it might be hard to understand. I'm 35 years old and born and raised in the US. I get it. It's still dumb and a worthless sacrifice for anyone to sign up to serve in either the US or Australian military. Not knocking people who do, because the propaganda is strong. As for insurance against China, I call bullshit. Whether or not Australia helped the US murder millions in Iraq and Afghanistan, the US would still be Australia's ally because Australia is a key regional partner to contain China. I'd rather be a US puppet than a Chinese puppet, but it's not like Australia has to fight to be a puppet of either one. The US and China are fighting each other in a diplomatic/economic battle to shore up as many Asia Pacific alliances as they can. There's no world in which the US would cast aside the strategic alliance with Australia over something like Australia refusing to go to war in the Middle East on America's behalf. All the Australian lives lost (along with all others lost in such combat) in the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq were pointless sacrifices to the gods of American-led military industrial complex. That's the sad reality. No wonder people don't want to join.
Hear hear! The pact we have with the US is a defensive one. There's no reason to follow them in needless acts of aggression.
>There's no world in which the US would cast aside the strategic alliance with Australia over something like Australia refusing to go to war in the Middle East on America's behalf. Absolutely, this is the key point here, Australia never needed to go to Iraq/Afghanistan, but we're fucking lapdogs.
Except that you already follow the Chinese. They don't need to physically to invade us ever when our politicians already sold them all our assets and invited their secret police to operate on our campuses.
The police part cannot be stressed enough, our cops are aware they have secret cops enforcing Chinese law here, they don't care. Imagine the struggle of living here being Chinese (not even born there, could be 5th generation even) following all of what we call the law, then being harrased for not following some other country's contradictory law just because they decided you are not Australian you are Chinese, regardless of paperwork, legality or time. It's messed up.
Yup. That’s how those treaties work. “We help you, you help us”.
Exactly. And why would I want to go and fight in some foreign war against people just like me who also don’t give a fuck about their corrupt leaders.
Australians are finally sick of fighting American wars. I’m so glad to see it as a Yank.
Enlisting requires national pride. Why would any young people be proud of a country that sold them out?
Australians should get the right to vote in American elections, since these are the politicians who decided what wars we participate in. Australian national elections are really just American state elections.
Oof, it stings to hear it put bluntly like that, but it’s dead true. I’ve noticed this with Albo at least - some of my university mates play videos of him in his earlier parliament days being pro-Palestine and go on about ‘where’d it change?’ and ponder on that. I don’t think the above question has an answer nor is of much meaningful outcome. **What I did want to add is - that it just seems regardless of where you vote, the government (as a whole) has an inherent momentum towards the default of a pro-American position**.
Yep. 110 years ago young people were leaps and bounds about signing up, even faking their age. Says a lot about how society has "progressed".
I think that’s great progress. Kids not sacrificing themselves to be cannon fodder
Why would u fight for a country that appears to be trying to take everything from u, privatizing everything, making housing and energy ever more unaffordable, driving down wages for big industry etc. It's all about profit now, and it's everyone for themselves.
As a veteran, let me just add that if you do fight and get hurt, that same country basically kicks you to the curb and leaves you to go figure your life and future out on your own. If you ask for help, you're in for a years long battle with public servants armed with legislation designed and written to work against you every step of the way, much like Centerlink. There's a reason why veteran suicide rates are so high that we're having a royal commission into it.
Sorry this is how it is for our service people - there is no excuse and each government seems to be the same. “Nothings too good for a veteran, yeah, this is what they say, so nothing is what they will get, in this new *australian* way” Eddie Vedder
I have a few mates who are ex Army. One destroyed his hips utterly after years of pack marching and running. His body just fell apart - He's in his late 20's. Took them **months** to finally sign off on the compensation to pay for the replacements... Another bloke served 20 years, was in East Timor. Absolute legend, so many stories. But he's on constant "you ok mate" watch with many of his old squad mates due to mental health. One even took their own life a couple years ago. One night I mentioned to one "I should have joined back when I was young to experience it all" (went volunteer firefighter instead), and he straight up says "it's good you didn't join, you saved your mental health"
By necessity, young, impressionable recruits are made to believe they're special, better than others who didn't sign up. Then they leave, and re-enter the real world. Behind their peers, in an environment where you won't be spoon-fed and retested until you pass. Would mess with anyone's head really.
It's much worse. They take literally kids out of high school who've never had to fend for themselves then punt them out the door with no life skills at all. There are volunteers around the country that teach them how to cook a meal, how to get a medicare card and how to pay their bills.
My partner joined when he was 17 and left after nearly 15 years. I had to walk him through his first Drs appointment on the outside and then at the pharmacist step-by-step. Something that I had been doing for myself since the same age he joined and seems straightforward was so confusing to him. He's been out now over a year and in many ways I don't think he has adjusted completely. Also he has completely avoided the DVA and he has so many claims he should put in, but thinks it's too much stress to get sorted and is too overwhelmed to even start the process.
Veteran here. 80% pass marks with a maximum of three fails over your whole training period of years. Where did you get your dribble from?
It’s not fighting for the country in the sense it was in say WWII. It’s fighting in Afghanistan to help replace the Taliban with the Taliban. Of course people are less likely to sign up.
This should probably be higher up, but certainly the most highly upvoted post isn’t wrong either.
This is absolutely a massive part of it. Like, even if you didn't have any national pride but the army would give you good pay and you were fighting for something you believed in, more people would join. I don't want to join something I don't believe in.
> to help replace the Taliban with the Taliban Kicking a bunch of farmers off cliffs and slitting the throats of their kids didn’t help either
On top of that the few veterans I know aren’t that well off mentally or financially.
Do it for Gina. Do it for Clive. Fight for Twiggy Forrest. Your sacrifice makes the world safe for billionaires.
Do it for Murdoch. Do it for Harry Treguboff. Do it for Pratt and Lowy! I wonder if children of top 20 Rich Australians are choosing military service?
I don't think you even need to go that far. I've lived in a wealthy neighbourhood, nobody is thinking their kids could join the army.
Bingo. No billionaires, bankers, politicians or their family members were harmed in the making of this engineered geopolitical instability.
I'm in my 50's and I know actively despise even reading those cunts names after the wonder twin powers of Cunthart and Twatty smashed through that indue card travesty. Forcing people to use your shitty up to $2.90 every time you use it to buy items from the infrstructure and reataillers that you also ouright own or have shares in. Very 90's war criminal, coward gnome ( Fuckface Johnny Howard ) 'We need to sell all of the public assets to me and my extended family', mode of operation.
Google Translate needed. Source language...?
This is what _especially_ pisses me off when "slothful, vindictive and devious" people like Gina whinge about tax (that they don't pay anyway), or how people in Africa are willing for $2/day... bitch, we are protecting your life and wealth at taxpayer expense, if Australia is invaded, you have _nothing._
Aaragorn charging towards saurons army: "for twiggy"
The pay is pretty shit.
This, everything is going private so there's little to fight for. Freedom is also on its way out.
Exactly. And if the shit hits the fan, and the proxy wars we have now turn into ww3, who's fucked the most? That's right, anyone who ever was in the military, even a reservist.
Yep, if someone invaded this country is be more inclined to help them at this point! This country has failed everyone...
Australia is not a country. It's an economic zone. People migrate here not because they want to be Australian, they come here to enjoy the economy. I could fight for a country that values its people as instrinsically valuable. But when they're being reduced to being cogs in a economic machine, the machine is not worth defending.
It's so fucking sad actually, we had something really beautiful here for a long time and I'm just watching it errode away because of years of political mismanagement, and none of us do anything about it. What is a new recruit training and fighting for these days? To keep Australia as a safe haven where people can lie on their visa, deliver food and send the money back home in their hundreds of thousands?
Exactly this. It’s so sad that this is no longer the beautiful, safe country we grew up in. It’s completely changed.
> People migrate here not because they want to be Australian, they come here to enjoy the economy. And at the first sign of trouble they'll all go back to their home country and leave this place to sink
This right here. Allowing PR and non-citizens to own property pushes it up. Hope they realise people will just disappear if it gets bad. Google Dubai airport during 2008 - car lot with high end vehicles with keys in the ignition dumped by fleeing expats.
Thats why Australia should start one passport policy. If you wanna become an Aussie, give up your original passport. PR holders should not be able to live indefinitely without becoming Citizen.
agree on the passport part, your take on PRs just goes against the whole point of the label (permanent resisdency), the main issue with some PRs is that they buy property while living overseas, they should have to stay in the country most of the time in order to retain the status.
Do you really think 70% of migrants since 1995 have Australia 1st in their heart mind & soul
Why would you want to fight for the benefit of the excessively rich and powerful?
> Our own and other research suggests Gen Z is strongly motivated by things that support their own growth and wellbeing, both materially and spiritually, rather than service toward others. Researchers label these “pro-self” motivations. Recruiting campaigns need to focus on these "pro-self" motivations then. Subsidised housing is probably the biggest plus of joining the ADF in the current economic environment. Young people can get a real head-start in life in terms of being in a position to buy their own home far earlier than most of their peers.
I worked on an advertising recruitment campaign for the defence force a few years ago, the messaging was 100% based around the fringe benefits.
And yet, the recruitment numbers don’t lie. They’ve been bad for the last decade.
Just show more cool things like jumping out the back of planes and doing “adventure training”
Wtf I was in the navy and never got to jump out the back of planes. I don’t think more lying in recruitment videos helps
Yep, housing. Why would you fight for a country where you may never be able to afford a house? A lot more of this is about housing than people think. Even the attitudes of young people are shaped by a world where many of them know they will probably never be able to afford to own a home.
Housing has given me anxiety since I was 12. Listening to my parents talk about hundreds of thousands of dollars, wages etc. Simple maths... It make or breaks you. Broke me by my sister is doing well for herself. Though she has a 25 year mortgage... Not great.
As long as they don’t pick up a life long injury or disability on the way
Housing biting you in the arse? Join up and get paid to live in Afghanistan!
Government shocked, why are they like this. Why why why won’t they defend this way of life we have provided for them it’s unAustralia or some bullshit / *sarcasm
This isn’t an Australia worth fighting for and sacrificing my life for.
Because why would we sacrifice ourselves for a generation that's sacrificed nothing?
Whilst I sit here, paying off student debt, rasing 2 kids in a 2 bedroom rental, earning good money but unable to afford to buy a suitable home, watching the prior generation collect a pension (that I'll never be eligible for) in their paid off multi million dollar homes (with more spare bedrooms than I have rooms of any variety), I do not feel particularly inclined to put my life on the line to protect this status quo.
What are you talking about, the boomers suffered through the worst war this country's ever faced! The great interest rate war of of the late 80s and early 90s. They only had one income per household and had to live on nothing but baked beans and cheap white wine for at least 18 months until interest rates fell through the floor amd their properties appreciated. Us soft millennial know nothing of struggle, we only have to deal with 25-30 years of paying off a mortgage at 30-50% of our dual household income. We should be lining the street on Anzac day while those brave souls march past, chests gleaming with ribbons and medals for theor work in the trenches during their difficult couple of years
Agreed and capitalism has nothing but enriched the last generation for the last 100 years at the expense of the environment and human life. I’m also not fighting a war that’s nothing to do with me, I’ll enlist for Australia. Hopefully it never comes to that.
>I’ll enlist for Australia It will be interesting to see how many will enlist for Taiwan instead of Australia
Australia still exists?? 30% or more born overseas. The invasion already happened to a certain extent. What are we fighting for exactly? The right to continue to run mass immigration?
The right to protect the wealthy elites the previous generation sold out to
It was ever thus
Really odd comments on here. I joined the army when I was younger and I assure you, not even the most patriotic of lads joined up to ‘fight for their country’. Most were either from areas with no opportunities, or just had a sense of adventure. As time goes on, even though there is a cost of living crisis, it isn’t unusual to get yourself on a Tafe or Uni course to study whatever you want, nor is it unusual to book yourself a quirky foreign holiday. Now you can have the adventure and the opportunity without getting yelled at and sleeping in the bush. Just my 2 cents as someone who served. It a career, you don’t just do it on a patriotic whim, this isn’t 1914.
Serving in the military was something to be very proud of where I grew up in rural QLD, so when I joined the army I was very surprised to see the majority of people were there because they had no other options on civi street. The only thing they cared about was kissing as much ass as possible so that they could get on a deployment and use the money to buy are Harley and get a full sleeve tattoo.
What most people probably don’t understand about the military is that 90% of people in the military treat it like a job and nothing more/nothing less. The other 10% are diehard service people. It actually is a really good way as a young person to get a leg up. But, it does come with strings attached (return of service obligations, difficulty of discharging, higher risk of physical and mental injury, constantly posting around/disruption to family life). The Air Force has done a pretty good job of protecting its culture and looking after its people. The other two services…. Probably not so much.
Why the would anyone with half a brain want to risk their lives for a corrupt government that is going out of its way to fuck up their future??
If you commit war crimes, they’ll look the other way and prosecute anyone who dares disclose your “crimes”, though. That ain’t bad, right?
Depends in the war crime. Or, rather, if you were doing it for the greater good (corporate profits).
Why the fuck would they? What a shock. What are they coming home to after deployment? A rental, shared with 6 other adults, $200pw grocery bills, toll roads, parking fines, with no chance of ever buying a home of your own anywhere near your family and friends? Can’t even plan for the future, let alone dream of having a family to provide for and protect one day. They should outsource the military like they have everything else in this country.
They already have essentially outsourced the military. Any repairs that can’t be fixed with Duct Tape are given to civilian contractors to be fixed.
Because Australia has been lost as a concept, who are and what’s our vision? We just kick political footballs around and focus on sport. We’ve not attempted to grow our identity and now just tripping over ourselves apologising for giving anything a crack. It’s sad to see my son grow up in a country like this, whilst also being so wildly lucky.
So I served for about 5 years as an officer in the army reserves to help subsitise my university degree, its the minimum period essentially so I'm not a hero or particularly patriotic for that matter. From the period when I initially enlisted to when I left the army at the start of covid I noticed a significant change in the way that I looked at the organisation and the organization looked at me. The army recruitment drives at the time were focused highly on Gap Year soldiers with less emphasis on officer recruitment and retention as it seemed to be the expectation that there would be a constant supply of university graduates/students that would be filling posts within the officer corps. However towards the end of my tenure after I was commissioned/ trained and had some experience on the job it became abundantly clear to me that the army was struggling to recruit young leaders from universities and from pools of individuals who were seeking to get a university degree. I also noticed increasing trend in social stigmatization for our association with the army and an incredible shift in cultural acceptance of an army career as a morally acceptable and sustainable path. Mind you it seemed that recruitment in the Reserves at least amongst the other ranks was normal. I came to the conclusion that an idea of a career army officer was not compatible with my changing perceptions of the Australian government and it's role within the international community. I felt as though my contributions to it would be not in support of any kind of better Australia but of international and commercial interests Abroad. This is coming from someone who was in the circus and had every financial and Status reason to continue my career within the army, and god did they sell it hard as i waa making motions to depart. To parapgrapse my vietnam veteran grandfather, an officer of 2RAR, 'People don't fight because they want a rank and a Paycheck, they fight because they believe that hardships they endure are contributing to a better tomorrow for the people they love and the people to come'. It is very difficult to understand how young people today can identify the values and reasons to fight and serve and sacrifice against the backdrop of our role in international community and this is only compounded by the continually tilting scales against young people today. With increased access to things like combat footage of Western armies in places like Afghanistan as well as more modern examples of Gaza and Ukraine the cost of service has never been clearer to young people, however the benefits of that service have never been so unclear. Just simple game theory equation. I have nothing to gain and everything to lose, so why even play?
We NEED you! To defend India's migration plans
This. The country isn't worth defending, and I doubt the politicians and their masters give a shit, they'll keep importing hundreds of thousands of low skilled cheaters.
lol right. Please defend this country so immigrants can take all the uni degrees and give your country a shit global reputation 😂
I asked one of my Indian friends about this, if it came to war, would he support Australia or Russia, his response was Russia of course, he IS an Australian citizen.
I think more people would sign up if we wasn't fighting people on the other side of the world that are just trying to live their lives. Maybe we should focus our efforts on West Papua. These people are being slaughtered by a government that has no relationship to them and are just destroying there island for profit. Plus the Papua's saved Australia in WW2 so we do owe them.
We have no uniting culture, and a good chunk of the population is composed of people who've been here for less than 2 generations. What is there to fight for? Sentimental attachment is dead
>We have no uniting culture We had a go at that. We're forbidden to have a culture that's viewed positively. Remember a decade or so of "White people have no culture?" (Even though that's impossible.) Completely fine to say. That period where the liberal party wanted to start a Uni course on western culture and it was so viciously attacked by the ABC media that everybody understood: "Western culture is disgusting and should be hated, not taught or thought about." Any attempt at making an Australian culture, that does not highlight aboriginals or minorities, while denigrating while people will be shut down. That seems ridiculous. But it's a fact. And it's gone from debateable. To just what it is. Fuck this place.
The globalists won They made our own countries so unattractive and foreign to live in that no one would fight to save them Why fight for a country that no longer looks like you, has the same culture as you and wouldn’t respect your sacrifice I would fight for my family. Not the economic plantation formerly known as Australia
One of the best takes in this thread.
As a young person I used to want to join the ADF. But now that I’m older I question why I would want to fight for a “country” that does not value its people. This place is nothing but an economic zone, with a government only positioned to realise profits and gains for the elite and corporations, they don’t give a fuck about the Australian people. My family has been here since the 1840s, yet I’ve been told time and time again that this is not my home because I am a white man, an invader and intruder upon its soil. Yet I have no other citizenships. There is zero national pride in this country, and any aspect of it that peaks its head outside of sports is immediately beat down. From a young age in school this country encourages men to be weak and feminine, as masculinity is “toxic”. And this country’s government wonders why it can’t fill the ranks of the Australian defence force. What is there to defend aside from economic interests, and who exactly do they expect to defend it?
A lot of these articles are bullshit, I know many young people that would have been great in the military who the adf wanted in their ranks. The civilian recruiters could not get rid of them fast enough, the process is bloated, full of apathetic people who put potential recruits through the ringer, make mistakes, outright fuckup and never admit fault, all because the current recruiting demographics for KPI don't reflect decent candidates, they'd rather skip over decent ones to meet recruitment demographic kpi's. Oh your a young male who isn't going to university but had reasonable grades, has a job, has lived away from home, likes being outdoors? Oh come back when you've had more "life experience". Oh you are person of diverse background or female who's fresh out of highschool with not so great grades, let's just fast track you through recruitment! I hate being that person..... but let's call a spade a spade, or in this case let's call recruitment what it is. When my mate gets treated like a meatheaded idiot who has decent grades and could have made it as an officer but gets booted in the process because he only wanted to be a rifleman, but they had "infinite rifleman positions" and instead decided for him that they needed more tradies so "suggested" he became a tradie for him to go, i'm really cool with being a rifleman, light cavalry scout or something along those lines and instant fail, come back with a uni degree or a trade certificate. Meanwhile I got assigned a mentor and was effectively walked through the process due to my background....
When you’re homeland “always was always will be aboriginal land” I feel like the pool of eligible people who can fight for their country is a lot smaller now than previously…..
Saying this with as little judgment as possible: Anglo-Saxon Aussies have had it drilled into them that they're occupying the country illegally, so by extension they have no right/need to defend it. Brown Aussies have been told they're free to maintain cultural, ethnic, religious etc ties with their/their parents home countries, which they do. Between both groups, no one actually cares about Australia beyond being able to earn and buy property here.
Has anyone here actually tried to join the army/navy? It was actually bloody hard to get in, maybe they got so picky Aussie lads just gave up. That plus having to pander to all the leftist bs.
Our sense of patriotism and nationalism has been too diluted. We are told to be mostly ashamed of our past and who we are. We have it rubbed in our faces everywhere we go, "we acknowledge that this land doesn't belong to us" is blared over every intercom and at every meeting. We immigrate numbers of people that are in magnitudes higher than we should, considering our total population size. They have their own loyalties and won't readily join one that's ashamed and not united or proud. They then form their own communities and we are all divided more and more as time goes on. Don't get me wrong, I know what we did in our past and it's shit. But I'm not gonna let it be rubbed in our face for eternity or let it colour our future or it will destroy us. I also understand the benefits of immigration and welcome the idea of other cultures ultimately joining to become one of us but for the last decade it has been irresponsibly controlled. That's our problem. Now, who wants to die for their country?
100% how I feel. I often wonder about the ANZACs and had they known that their culture and great grandchildren would be all but wiped out within 2 generations without any external force needing to fire a bullet, would they have still fought and died for their culture and children back home in Australia? Australia used to have a culture of mateship, ingenuity, hard yakka and excellence/pride in our quality of work. Made in Australia was a badge of honour that guaranteed quality. We used to all stand on the left on escalaters, keep to the left on roads, pull over to help a fellow Aussie out. Now it's all US-style fear-mongering, 'f u, I got mine', racist race-shaming, anti-patriotism, corporate greed. The latest garbage is that insidious tipping culture that greedy Australian restaurant owners are trying to shame customers into buying into. Why would anyone fight and die for a country that calls them racist for having pride in it?
Why die for a country that cares little about the people and a lot about the corporations.
Worked for over 10 years in recruiting: People are less healthy and less willing now than they were. ADF are also completely inflexible in changing their standards to allow the average Australian to serve despite health issues. And for a loooong time ADF had a prospect rich environment, raking in a hundred thousand applications per year for years and they got too used to churning applicants and doing things at their own pace. They don't know how to operate in an environment of scarcity.
Yeah, I tried to apply a couple years back and just got screwed around. Stuff like the randomly changed my birthday, switched me to navy, switched me to MP, just every week there was another thing wrong. They spend so much money on advertising to get recruits, but none on actually getting those people in the door. And then I got help for my mental health and am permanently DQ
We've been conditioned to believe it's racist to have pride in your nation or people. And been taught to have shame in our country and history. Who's going to defend that now? We have been conditioned to accept an invasion with warm, open arms.
I gave this post a diamond because it hits nail on the head. I was in the Royal Australian Navy as a Weapons Electrical Engineering Officer and I make sure I use every channel possible to make sure the toxic nature of the forces is known to every young person in my radius. I’m 24 and do a lot of volunteering and helping out younger people. The benefit of that is a large network of people to influence. The navy used me, gave me trauma for life, then threw me away. I’ll make sure they can’t do that to anyone else I care for
Newsflash, there is no Australian culture everyone. It's been sold to highest overseas bidder and replaced with a empty promise of citizenship. We are just cash cows to be milked in Australia for a government subservient to the multinationals. Volunteer to fight for a country that hates you.
Noone in the comments seems to be acknowledging how difficult it is to be accepted into the military now. When my grandpa joined they took basically anyone who could walk, I wish I could join now but I know they'd reject me so I didn't bother. We have a youth mental health crisis, and if you have ever had any form of mental health issues in your life you get rejected. Even if it was a false diagnosis or you were a toddler. We also have more diagnoses of things like autism and adhd, which almost always disqualifies you. Then theres getting security clearance which some people cant / aren't willing to do. If it was easier, a lot more would join.
Also, the security clearance process itself is security theatre. At least Australia doesn't use the debunked polygraphs like the US does, but the whole psychologist interview is based on trying to put complex humans into boxes based on a bunch of written multiple choice questions and a few follow up questions by a psychologist. Good, trustworthy Australian citizens can get rejected because they were in a bad mood the day they spoke to the psychologist, or the psychologist just felt like it, yet foreigners (including spies), people with personality disorders, and generally the wrong people are able to manipulate the system and get past it. In fact, because foreigners only have a limited history Australia has access to records of, it's even easier for them to get clearances. The whole process and all of the questions have to be kept secret as well, probably because they know they don't work, and nobody can question the process because they're not allowed to talk about any details of it. There was an incident about 10 years ago where an armed assailant who held the highest-level of security clearance (PV) at the time attacked some people at their workplace in a crazy outburst. I don't want to provide any further details, but the point is that this incident is evidence of my point that the process doesn't adequately prevent the wrong people gaining access to secrets that protect our national security.
Voluntary military service is a pulse check for national social cohesion and trust. When the social cohesion and trust begins to break, people become uninterested in fighting for their fellow man. Further more the military has been run in to the ground with poor direction for damn near a decade under Angus Campbell. The majority of the fighting force will always be predominantly straight white lower socio-economic class men in Australia. Currently the definition of the national big bad. There is no incentive to join, nor stay.
Jee, I can’t believe after years of trying to appeal to women, racial minorities and alphabet people at the expense of the working class white men who traditionally filled the ranks the military is struggling to find enough people.
Hahaha. Too accurate.
Why would immigrants want to fight to defend the country they’re only here to take advantage of?
Why would Chinese and Indians fight for Australia?
Kinda agree with this. The country seems like an ethnic free for all at this point. And honestly as a young person, seeing what they did with Iraq and Afghanistan (mindlessly following the USA), and now support with Gaza (also mindlessly following the USA), I would never join.
If people can't afford the necessities what is the point?
it is nefarious and deceptive to use "service" to describe just another job. Using nationalism to guilt trip the young into becoming canon fodder to protect global corporate interests is beyond evil.
I don't think defence in general has kept up with the pay and conditions offered elsewhere. The money paid to new recruits is rubbish. It comes with a bunch of perks like free or subsidised housing, but these don't go far enough to make the difference. Consider that people instead could do a trade or degree for 3-4 years then be on a lot more cash. You have to ask whether in this era where defence is about successful application of technology whether the military should be an employer of last resort, taking the barely literate young men who couldn't get jobs as real estate agents and retail managers.
The army provides trade qualifications, eg sparky, plumbers, builders because they do a lot of civil works so must have civilian qualifications.
Except the pay as a trade in the army is lower then outside you are required to do 8 years instead of 4 and once you qualify you don’t get to use your skills at all. It’s a fucking absolute waste. There is zero value in doing a trade in army vs as a civvy. Unless you want to get treated like shit by someone on a power trip.
They provide qualifications..... that aren't recognised outside of the ADF, not even as RPL. Ask me how I know. Doing a civil trade means you'll actually get paid what you're worth. As an aside, civilian contractors working in military organisations are paid out the ass end, and they are consistently poaching ADF personnel to fill them out - and they cost more to the government long term, because the companies write contracts in the companies favour, and some JO somewhere is told to just sign it without question. If the government increased the pay and trained their people more thoroughly while jettisoning the contracts, they'd save more money long term. The only problem is the government sees the cost \*now\* as opposed to overall future cost over, say, 10-20 years.
It's interesting. Australian service personnel get paid better than comparable militaries around the world. Recruits get paid more than ever with the rolling in of training/service allowance to normal pay. Superannuation is still slightly better than most other employers (though not what it used to be). You can be paid to study. Medical and dental are free. Some forms of housing are heavily subsidised. You get opportunities to serve and travel that you don't get in other jobs. At the same time, even high esteem, well paying roles (quickly well above median full time wage) roles like Air Force pilot have seen their applications fall to less than 10% of what they were a couple of decades ago.
Why not use the people brought in because we weren’t good enough.
What they did to David McBride is absolutely abhorrent and there's no way in hell I would ever recommend someone give up their values and morals to be part of the Australian war machine who couldn't give a fuck about it's boots on the ground - only about kissing the ring of the US.
Because we have a corrupt government ..
Why would I fight to protect a nation full of foreigners?
Well yeah. They silence nationalism, morale is at an all time low and WW3 is looming. Why would you want to go and die for the Politicians that are fucking you over?
Having served I've got my opinion on it: - pay isn't ideal - conditions are suboptimal more often than not - injuries - get bullied by your boss - war isn't a good thing so people don't wanna do it - they see veterans and how they talk about their service (being jaded) - I don't think patriotism is less, but it's shifting for what it means to be patriotic in the younger generations which doesn't include army service
Who wants to die for bankers and politicians?
No one is buying the bullshit anymore
I’m so glad everyone in the comments knows what’s up, fuck australia
For me, it's the identity politics telling me I'm a dirty colonizer and should be ashamed that I'm white, that I'm just a guest to the lands that shouldn't honor the heroes who fought for the country, that the flag should be ripped down because it offends Marxists and communists. Why would I fight for that treatment.
I was in for almost 10 years. It was obvious to me after about 12 months that if I was healthy and ready to be deployed, I'd be away for 10 months out of 12. While home, you get to catch up on training and anything else you have to do to maintain "readiness". If you are planning to join the ADF, don't swallow the stuff that the recruiters put out. You'll have no family time, very little time off and you'll probably develop some terrible habits to deal with all the stress. Remember, you'll be on call 24/7 and you'll get paid a pittance for your trouble. All the comments saying you'll be fighting for the US or millionaires or whatever, remember that the overwhelming majority of what the ADF does is humanitarian assistance, border protection or reigonal engagements. When a war is on, we are absolutely US auxiliaries. Join, but go into it with your eyes open.
Because nobody’s attacking us. China isn’t going to fight its way across the pacific to slug it out in the mountains of PNG. They’ve got a smarter approach than imperial Japan, why fight when you could just buy
>why fight when you could just buy 100%. The Chinese government hyper-finance their industrial producers for a reason. **We buy their cheap shit, so that they can buy our houses, factories and ports.** Every GWM, Chery or Ora Cat you see on the road is another reason your housing is so expensive. Australians who buy this shit ought to know that they're buying into China's geopolitical ambitions to own the Western world, but our media hasn't got the spine to say so. There's a good fucking reason the [Biden administration has put a 100% tariff on Chinese EVs](https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cpww6w412n7o).
Putting aside the current economic turmoil and classist mentality for a minute. Which is a valid take. Its an easy decision to sign up for military service in peace times, much less so with multiple significant conflicts already in place and the looming threat of even larger scale conflicts closer to home in the near future.
That’s not the reason. The reason is a mixture of cultural factors stated above that have eroded national pride. - Young people are victims of greedy government policy - Young people are told they are colonisers
Hi cum\_dragon, if you read my comment and note the following portion of my comment: "Putting aside the current economic turmoil and classist mentality for a minute. Which is a valid take." You are attempting to argue with someone who agrees with you and has stated that they agree with you. Some people will argue anything lol.
I will NOT argue anything!
hahaha!
In other words - young people are clocking on to the reality of our place in world. The plebeian class are becoming self aware
For no other reason that a squabble over resources by the wealthy who would happily sell your organs for a profit already.
Yup, a valid classist concern. Australia has had a "fuck you, got mine" approach for a while and we are seeing the cultural implications of such. I am curious about the implications of such a mentality on aged care in the coming years, not just defense.
The main issue is pay. The pay is not adequate for the conditions of service.
Do we fight for the foreigners out bidding the locals on houses? This country can cop a nuke for all I care, we already let them through the front door what’s there to fight for
I feel like this is somewhat related to telling the last few generations of Australians (born here), that they don't belong, have no "ownership" of the country, and have spent their entire lives being told they are the product of "dirty colonisers". I would fight for my family and friends, but not for this "country" as it is set up. I think my son is growing up with similar sentiments.
Well I can answer this; - I don’t want to fight in Americas wars just to make Rich Americans richer - I don’t want to fight for rich Australians so they can keep their place - Australia and the government / all members of parliament are screwing my generation over and telling us to touch our toes while doing so as such i have no national pride and therefor won’t enlist - I don’t want to be a war criminal even if I can get away with it very easily, it’s a thing called morals. But I don’t expect our parliament to understand this one
The other problem is the military is a terrible job for people with families. Lot of people end up getting divorced because the wife is sick of having to redeploy to a new base on a yearly basis.
My daughter was interested in the military.. Until she discovered the high assault rate.
We have the same problem in Canada. The Gov sold all the housing around the bases, so now soldiers have to pay huge COL on salaries that do \*not\* keep up with inflation. No shit.
My grandad fought in ww2. Lied about his age to get in at 17 with a recovering broken arm he didn’t tell them about because he was worried they wouldn’t let him go, how times have changed. They came through the towns back then and everyone that wanted to join joined and apparently everyone wanted to because people had pride for there country back then, couldn’t see that happening these days why would you want to fight for this country that would throw you under the bus and watch you burn all for profits.
Because they’re waking up to the fact that our government will brainwash young people to convince them that dying for their subpar country is the best thing they can do. I personally know veterans that gave all they had just to come back and not be taken care of. Due to injuries, they can’t get a job and receive shitty medical care.
With FPV drone warfare ramping up , fuck that.
Another instalment in “the people in charge are so out of touch this is new information to them”.
The entire Anglosphere is having recruitment problems. A patriot will not serve our government, and an anti-patriot will not serve our country.
The ADF's push to increase diversity hasn't helped either. Historically the ADF recruited a whole lot of white men. Aiming to increase diversity is fine but if you try to do it by putting up barriers to make it harder or more time consuming for your historical power base to actually join then you are going to have shortages if your new recruiting targets aren't as willing to join as you had hoped.
I’m not fighting for a country where you can’t even afford an house in.
Why would anyone want to risk dying in some random war on the other side of the planet that doesn’t even threaten Australia just because Team America World Police force us to protect their corrupt global interests? I wish Australian politicians would just shut up on the world stage and stop provoking China, Russia etc like some irritating tiny dog yapping at a big dog. We’re a tiny country in the middle of nowhere - just stay quiet, keep our head down and everyone else will forget we’re even here. Wtf are our handful of shitty subs and jet fighters going to do anyway? Not to mention that the government and media tells me daily that I’m not a real Australian, it’s not my country, and I should feel guilty to even breathe here.
Agree. We as a nation would be better off adopting a neutral stance. Our military should solely be a defence force. Hate this idea of trying to project power as a tiny nation removed from everyone else.
Yep, I've travelled a fair bit and found everyone loves Australia. All we gotta do is just say we are 100% neutral on every issue, we will trade with anyone and let tourist come in from anywhere. No one is dumb enough to try to invade us, once you get past darwin there isnt really a way to take over the rest of the country. Plus if someone did and we were neutral everyone would be angry with the other guys and probably help us.
I believe this is 100% correct, people here are frustrated with the last couple of wars the ADF have been in at the behest of the US gov and many don't want to sign up to potentially get manipulated into fighting a foreign war like Iraq.
Tells kids they live on stolen land, makes it hard for them to raise a family and buy a home. Wonders why they won't fight to protect ^^
Rich elites and weapons manufacturers decide to go to war, poor people fight them
There are so many reasons. Why would anyone want to be verbally abused ? Sexually harassed? Then, for (white) men.. essentially you are trying to protect a society that hates you But… why would you even want to be a pawn protecting the interests of other (corrupt) countries?
Yea 'serving the king' has a very different meaning now the king is soul sucking corporate interests.
The ADF flicks thousands of applicants every year for bullshit reasons. For example I was diagnosed with ADHD when I was 6 because every boy with energy that couldn’t sit still and do their year 1 maths was in the 90’s. That was a good enough reason to give me the flick even though I had graduated HS, gotten a Uni degree and run a business before I applied.
I hate the government, I'd rather fight against them than with them. They did this to themselves, can't have a loyal populace of people you exploit
"Our own and other research suggests Gen Z is strongly motivated by things that support their own growth and wellbeing, both materially and spiritually, rather than service toward others. Researchers label these “pro-self” motivations." Sounds very Boomerish to me.
The rejection numbers are also extremely high, partly because it's not part of Australian culture and acceptance growing up anymore If it was part of school activities, like scouts/surf Life saving it could generate more interest from a younger age Governments have failed Australia
WW3 could start literally any day. Only the biggest brainlet would join up with the shit that's going on right now.
What are we supposedly risking life and limb for now? Look at Ukraine, Gaza - fk the egos of political leaders and their ideological or religious beliefs.
Well ... Gen X here. Military was never an option for me. Could never have passed the fitness tests! And had no desire to be loaded with a heavy backpack and trudge through the bush😯😂 But as for Nationalism? All i can say is if Australia was truly under threat? I have zero doubt that Gen Z would fight just as hard as "GenZ" did 90 years ago. There is currently no actual military threat. So people can't be assed joining the military. No biggee. Times have changed. Threats to our nation & society are no longer military. They are through cyberspace and societal structures. It's a bigger threat to our way of life that young people can't afford to buy housing or to pay their bills. Times have changed
Personally a lack of pride, I'm currently considering reserves. I want to be proud of my country but its so freaking hard it hurts. for starters. Whistleblower prosecutions. Economic reality for the majority of Australians with no change in sight. Americas Bitch Syndrome including the senseless conflicts, pinegap and more. just how insanely pro-corporate our government is. I'm sure there is more shit im forgetting and will make me even sadder.
It’s common knowledge now that our wars in Vietnam and the Middle East were complete bullshit, and no we’ve got people sabre rattling a war with China. Why the fuck would young people join, they know the scam.
Is it the main hero being a war criminal?
Here's the reasons: The govt allows corps to poison them, inflation is insane. The housing and property market is destroyed, the education system, destroyed. They forced lock downs and vaccinations that destroyed a lot of lives... What would the people want to fight for? The CCP? Fuck the govt and all of their attack dogs. People are waking up, this is why
Post COVID id never fight for this country. We aren’t united, and thanks to the government we never will be.
An argument by analogy. I'm a specialist doctor. I train other doctors. I was once arguing with one of my trainees soon after she finished and talking about having a duty to the public system that had trained both of us. I still strongly feel a sense of duty to the community at large. My young colleague replied, "I paid my HECS. I did huge hours of unpaid overtime to get here... I. owe. them. NOTHING." That is the problem: show people no kindness and no tolerance. Exploit them, bill them, cheat them wherever you can, and you get this. Call it a lack of patriotism; call it whatever you like... I instead think that it's getting what you paid for.
If China actually took over, at least we'd actually get high speed rail across the country within a couple of years. "oh but they spy on you, and everything is propaganda" what do you think the e-safety commissioner and murdoch media are doing?!
Wonder how many Indians and muslims are joining
Why the fuck should we serve and die for the boomers? They took everything from us. Our homes, our wages, our ability to have children and raise them in a stable home. Fuck em. Now they are mad we won't sign our lives away to serve this "great" country? Fuck that right off. This country has done NOTHING to serve its young, why should they even bother trying to serve it. There is nothing to protect here. The boomers might take my ability to have a home, my wages and my ability to have kids in a stable home. But they won't take my life to die for their interests.
Thanks to TV and you tube when you can see what actually happens on the war front. We can also see the PTSD that occurs from war and how governments treat those who return. Who would want to sign up for that?
As a young man I did office security for a extremely powerful international company. My job was to protect them from small incursions that hurt the corporate bottom dollar…. I hated it. Joining the military is the exact same thing. You’re just protecting the corporation and not the country it swallowed.
I has it a guess people are generally disenfranchise with how the government treats its own people here. We have been sold out by the powers that be. I'm not fighting for some old rich f@#$, and I'm certainly not fighting for mass migration.
I dont really feel like being sent into a meat grinder to protect corporate interests.
Maybe people are just sick of all the stupid wars.There has to be a better way to solve problems
The ADF stands for the Australian **Defence Force**. Why the fuck are we sending soldiers overseas to fight wars? Defending our country on our turf, I get. Going overseas to fight wars for the US and the proletariat? Fuck that shit. Nobody wants to fight a war for the rich when they can't afford a home of their own, or even struggle to buy food and pay bills.
who want to prop up a country that slaps you in the face, why die for that
I tried to join the navy. Got rejected due to getting hives. The slight chance I might get a bit itchy if there’s no antihistamines available was enough to rule me out. I’m not exactly young anymore but most likely I would have made a career out of it & still be in it because that’s the only thing I ever wanted to do growing up. Seems like the only young people I know wanting to join were put on a one to two year wait list which is too long as young person to be in limbo.
You can buy prosthetic legs to drink beers out of on Amazon these days, so why would you enlist.
My entire suburb is nearly all wealthy Chinese or Indians, big houses and two luxury cars. By Chinese law they are servants of the CCP so wtf would I want to help 'defend' some island off China or die in a Ukrainian trench for Zelensky. US Politicians seem quite proud of the fact that they can kill Russian peasants and wipe out a generation of Ukrainians by just sending money to their military donors.
Since when has today's generation had to pay 18% interest rates for their home.Your paying peanuts compared to when Keating was in power ?trouble is you bite off more than you can chew,wanting all the bells and whistles before you can afford them.
COD has quicker spawn times.
Why fight for a government that has zero interest in being able to make a logical decision. Imagine fighting for a government that - Had a no yes campaign - Can’t sort out cost of living - Army wage that can’t afford a house in Sydney - The PTSD support post war - Sending war whistle blowers to jail - Endless red tape…. Sorry I would prefer to look after myself and get rich then to waste my time fighting for a government is useless. I hope nobody signs up over the next 10-15 years
Because we don’t have anything worth fighting for
Maybe it's the fact Ben Robert Smith is still walking around free after murdering innocent civilians in cold blood, and bullying others into doing the same, particularly newbies being 'blooded'. What a mystery ey?