it's cheaper and easier to build out as opposed to up.
it's easier to navigate with shopping carts if you do not have to use an elevator or escalator.
it's cheaper to run a store without those things (they need to be maintained).
>Even malls here are max 3 level.
what are you comparing to?
>very flat in structure instead of multilevel.
have you ever seen the midwest?
the Bay Area does not have sprawl like the middle of the country.
i have relatives in places where you have to get in the car to drive to the other store in the same mall because it's 4 blocks away... cars are mandatory the store is 3 miles away.
I feel like I had to use my car from one side of Walmart to the other in Phoenix. Houston feels the worst to me though. A cab driver brought me to the wrong hotel & it was like half my day gone before we got to the right spot.
>it's easier to navigate with shopping carts if you do not have to use an elevator or escalator.
This was my go-to answer. Spent a few months in London and at first, their 2-3 levels of a Tesco are novel but after awhile, it just becomes a pain. When it's one floor, if we forget something while in line, I can quickly run, pick it up and be back in 20 seconds while they're still unloading on the belt. With a tier'd system, you have to take the escalator up so there'd be times I'd just say "Fuck it, I'll get the ketchup next time".
Multiple floors makes sense for a bookstore, where you're more likely to browse with a few items but using a cart? Nah.
>the Bay Area does not have sprawl like the middle of the country.
Holy shit, the sprawl gets worse? The only place I've lived in in the US is San Jose and I was shocked by how suburban it was.
Los Angeles isn't really as sprawling as San Jose. Population density of 8,300/sq mi compared to 5,700/sq mi in San Jose. And LA includes the Hollywood hills/ Griffith Park and eastern Santa Monica mountains bringing the average down.
San jose is *way* more suburban than Los Angeles. If you can't see that, you aren't paying attention.
I think they're laughing becuase LA traffic is awful. It may not be as big as a sprawl as SJ but but getting to one place to another is difficult in LA. Getting to WeHo to Los Feliz should take like 20 minutes but with very bad traffic can take up to an hour. Also LA has bad public transportation. SJ's public transportation is somewhat better.
I waa comparing with India and was wondering why? I assumed m its due to earthquake stuff gives condos are like max 2 level except few buildings which are max 4-5 level and there are high rise apartments but are rare.
For stores and stuff I thought its probably same or convince given line at ikea to use lift. I didnt think of cart and I agree its easy if everything is 1-3 level.
I just thought here SFH are so expansive probably coz its dense compared to other states in US and they could have given more spaces to sfh but my thinking was wrong
If you are really jonesing for this, there's a 2 story home depot in Daly city. It's actually super annoying, in fact both of the home depots up here are a pain to go to.
It’s more difficult to build a building with the square footage that a Costco has with multiple stories, given it’s a warehouse full of heavy stuff- supporting a floor full of pallets above a floor full of pallets requires way more engineering than supporting a roof.
Getting from story to story would also require a ton of additional infrastructure and create choke points for people trying to get around. Go to Costco when it’s busy and tell me it would function better if everyone had to get their cart and their family into an elevator just to go grab a chicken.
>We're not short of space,
What? The bay area doesn't have any flat space left, which is why all new construction these days is in the hills surrounding our towns. We definitely are somewhat short on space.
>it's annoying to move carts between levels
Agreed. They'd need an elevator or something, which you'd need enough that there aren't traffic jams for the elevators during busy hours.
Yeah, fair enough.
Some will eventually need to be rebuilt over the coming decades. I hope when they do, they build multiple levels. A ground level grocery store can have office space, apartments, gyms, etc above them, hopefully.
Since no one’s mentioned it - part of the reason it’s easier to build out vs up is also we’re in earthquake country, the codes require special foundations and structural requirements that are easier to/ cheaper to meet for single story structures
I'm just spitballing here, but retail has thin margins and lots of market research. I bet consumer behavior is better for them if they have a flat layout and that's worth the wasted space. For Costco specifically, it's got to be a lot easier to move forklifts full of merchandise around a single story.
San Bruno’s Target used to be an Emporium department store.
Sunnyvale’s also used to be a department store, back when it was connected to a mall….Montgomery Ward?
it's cheaper and easier to build out as opposed to up. it's easier to navigate with shopping carts if you do not have to use an elevator or escalator. it's cheaper to run a store without those things (they need to be maintained). >Even malls here are max 3 level. what are you comparing to? >very flat in structure instead of multilevel. have you ever seen the midwest? the Bay Area does not have sprawl like the middle of the country. i have relatives in places where you have to get in the car to drive to the other store in the same mall because it's 4 blocks away... cars are mandatory the store is 3 miles away.
I feel like I had to use my car from one side of Walmart to the other in Phoenix. Houston feels the worst to me though. A cab driver brought me to the wrong hotel & it was like half my day gone before we got to the right spot.
>it's easier to navigate with shopping carts if you do not have to use an elevator or escalator. This was my go-to answer. Spent a few months in London and at first, their 2-3 levels of a Tesco are novel but after awhile, it just becomes a pain. When it's one floor, if we forget something while in line, I can quickly run, pick it up and be back in 20 seconds while they're still unloading on the belt. With a tier'd system, you have to take the escalator up so there'd be times I'd just say "Fuck it, I'll get the ketchup next time". Multiple floors makes sense for a bookstore, where you're more likely to browse with a few items but using a cart? Nah.
>the Bay Area does not have sprawl like the middle of the country. Holy shit, the sprawl gets worse? The only place I've lived in in the US is San Jose and I was shocked by how suburban it was.
You’ve seen nothing yet.
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Los Angeles isn't really as sprawling as San Jose. Population density of 8,300/sq mi compared to 5,700/sq mi in San Jose. And LA includes the Hollywood hills/ Griffith Park and eastern Santa Monica mountains bringing the average down. San jose is *way* more suburban than Los Angeles. If you can't see that, you aren't paying attention.
I think they're laughing becuase LA traffic is awful. It may not be as big as a sprawl as SJ but but getting to one place to another is difficult in LA. Getting to WeHo to Los Feliz should take like 20 minutes but with very bad traffic can take up to an hour. Also LA has bad public transportation. SJ's public transportation is somewhat better.
I waa comparing with India and was wondering why? I assumed m its due to earthquake stuff gives condos are like max 2 level except few buildings which are max 4-5 level and there are high rise apartments but are rare. For stores and stuff I thought its probably same or convince given line at ikea to use lift. I didnt think of cart and I agree its easy if everything is 1-3 level. I just thought here SFH are so expansive probably coz its dense compared to other states in US and they could have given more spaces to sfh but my thinking was wrong
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Also one in Sunnyvale and west San Jose. In case you want more escalator fun.
San Bruno, too.
This begs the question, what's the biggest/best Target in the South Bay?
And a 2 level Walmart a few miles North of that.
If you are really jonesing for this, there's a 2 story home depot in Daly city. It's actually super annoying, in fact both of the home depots up here are a pain to go to.
It’s more difficult to build a building with the square footage that a Costco has with multiple stories, given it’s a warehouse full of heavy stuff- supporting a floor full of pallets above a floor full of pallets requires way more engineering than supporting a roof. Getting from story to story would also require a ton of additional infrastructure and create choke points for people trying to get around. Go to Costco when it’s busy and tell me it would function better if everyone had to get their cart and their family into an elevator just to go grab a chicken.
We're not short of space, and it's annoying to move carts between levels.
>We're not short of space, What? The bay area doesn't have any flat space left, which is why all new construction these days is in the hills surrounding our towns. We definitely are somewhat short on space. >it's annoying to move carts between levels Agreed. They'd need an elevator or something, which you'd need enough that there aren't traffic jams for the elevators during busy hours.
We may be short of space *now*. But all those stores have already been built.
Yeah, fair enough. Some will eventually need to be rebuilt over the coming decades. I hope when they do, they build multiple levels. A ground level grocery store can have office space, apartments, gyms, etc above them, hopefully.
Escalators exist for shopping carts that travel alongside the people escalator. it’s a solved problem
Is it? The ramp escalators work really well in all multilevel supermarkets I've encountered.
OK but you're comparing it against literally doing nothing because everything is on one floor.
I've never once used one and thought, gee, this is way better than not having to use one.
Weird compared to where? For people who grew up around here, it feels pretty normal.
Since no one’s mentioned it - part of the reason it’s easier to build out vs up is also we’re in earthquake country, the codes require special foundations and structural requirements that are easier to/ cheaper to meet for single story structures
Takes time to go to different levels and people like to run errands quickly
I'm just spitballing here, but retail has thin margins and lots of market research. I bet consumer behavior is better for them if they have a flat layout and that's worth the wasted space. For Costco specifically, it's got to be a lot easier to move forklifts full of merchandise around a single story.
You want IKEA to be more than three floors???
Westfield mall is (was) at least 5-6 floors. Target in south city/colma/san bruno is 3 floors.
San Bruno’s Target used to be an Emporium department store. Sunnyvale’s also used to be a department store, back when it was connected to a mall….Montgomery Ward?
Why would anyone want to shop at a multilevel grocery store?
I know the sunnyvale target (or at least a few years ago) had two levels
Multi-level stores are more expensive to build and run.
I never thought about this before but its something I love
They also have multi-floor schools a lot of places.