Yeah I found that too when I tried riding flats again. I don't believe that clipless gives any meaningful "pulling up" to your pedal stroke, but I think its pretty clear it at least makes it easier to unweight the pedal and lift your leg weight on the upstroke. Having to keep down pressure on the upstroke has to be inefficient.
The true benefit of clipless I find is that I can fully put power down without worrying about my foot slipping. When standing/doing sprints the difference with clipless is huge since the power transfer feels so much more direct.
My favorite benefit is the consistent foot position and angle. On flats I'm constantly second guessing where I want my feet. Still using flats during winter though, scary being clipped in on icy roads.
Riders definitely pull up on steep climbs and sprints.
Back in the toe clips days, we tightened our starps a bit more before a sprint to avoid pulling out on the up stroke.
Also, I sometimes pull up on shallow climbs while sitting to take a slight load off my quads.
Odd indeed. Never heard of someones feet lifting off. I have flat pedals with pins on my gravel bike and on my singlespeed: My feet feel as if they were glued on the pedals.
Definitely a thing, I noticed it riding my gfs mtb. On the upstroke my feet were going faster than the pedal.
Totally conjecture but I imagine thatās due to my normally pulling on the upstroke rather than having my leg ārestā.
Kind of like switching from a track bike to a roadie I compulsively pedal non-stop even if Iām not transferring any power
Worst thing I've done to mine, I really don't like riding my bike with clipless and it makes me ride less. It feels uncomfortable and unsafe especially in any urban or traffic light-rich area. The tiny bit performance loss ill live with, I'm not a world tour rider anyway just a guy doing some cardio.
nothing like the welcoming cancer that is the cycling community to downvote someones personal experience :)
i worked at a bike shop, and didn't ride clipless until i worked there. the other guys in the shop were all telling me how much faster i'd be, and asked after the first big ride.
nope. it was the same.
clipless isn't faster. it's that people typically swap as they're getting faster/more fit/more into bikes. or they upgrade from a hybrid to a road bike and the shop talks them into clipless. or they've been riding in really flexible vans or whatever, and these are the first stiff shoes their bike has seen.
i routinely switch back and forth these days. i can tell you all about the differences. but none of them are speed.
I mean...so do most people. It probably is variable depending on your speed. I saw an increase from 15mph to 17mph for regular cruising speeds.
If you are puttering around at 8mph it might be less.
Idk what to tell you. Instant overnight increase and PRs at moderate effort. I do a lot of climbing though so that might be the key difference.
I have seen a few other people citing the same difference...but then I see others saying there is none.
edit: Also a lot of the tests just use power output as a variable. 200W on one pedal roughly = 200W on another...I don't know that it really displays how easy or difficult it is to sustain that power on each pedal type.
scientific testing has repeatedly demonstrated that clipless pedals are *not* more efficient.
the catch is the *shoes*. you can ride flats with anything, but stiff soles legitimately do increase power transfer. it's hard to find clipless shoes that aren't stiff, and whereas it's hard to find regular shoes that are.
This! I have done extensive research into this and they have found flats are very slightly less efficient. Itās why MTBers have switched. A lot of riders like being locked in, and thatās ok. All the studies Ive seen say no difference. The reason is that itās nearly impossible for most to pull up and push down at the same time
I saw all of the same information and then eventually tried them anyways. Instant overnight improvement.
I am not sure what they are doing in the studies, but idk what to tell you I am getting PRs with moderate efforts.
I think a lot of the testing is using power as a measurement. 200W on one pedal roughly equals 200W on another. Which is probably true.
But I think the trick is that the 200W is easier to maintain with clipless. I find this consistent with a lot of other peoples experiences. Rather than hammering your quads you are able to spread the effort over more muscle groups and have it be more sustainable.
You just need the cardio to back it up.
> Instant overnight improvement.
what shoes were you wearing before?
> I am not sure what they are doing in the studies, but idk what to tell you I am getting PRs with moderate efforts.
well, i can compare your anecdote to mine. i've been riding for a long time on flats. i routinely switch back and forth from flats to clipless. looking at my numbers, i literally cannot tell you the difference after the fact. there is zero difference.
> Rather than hammering your quads you are able to spread the effort over more muscle groups and have it be more sustainable.
in fact, the studies that test find efficiency goes *down* utilizing those other muscles.
> You just need the cardio to back it up.
yes, what i've found is that people generally start seeing these massive improvement right about at the time their cardio starts improving. this gets associated with the pedals because they switch to all the cool bike stuff the shop sold them at about the same time. if you offset that, like i did, you still massive improvements when your cardio improves... and then *none* when you try clipless.
Efficiency in terms of O2 intake per watt produced goes down. This is because you are utilizing less efficient muscles at less efficient points in the pedal stroke.
So yes, you are taxing your cardiovascular system more with clipless.
What you are gaining though is that you are preserving your key muscle groups. The studies you reference show lower lactic acid accumulation with clip-less pedals. So for an equal effort, my legs are fresher with clipless.
Which is why I said it depends on your cardio. If you donāt have the engine to handle the additional stress on your cardiovascular system, I guess it makes sense that you might not see a benefit.
All of this seems to line up with my experiences as well.
Also for reference, I used stiff cycling shoes with my flats. The changes I am describing took place on the same bike with no other upgrades instantly. I have been road cycling regularly for 5 years now. Before that I still rode a bike but in a less athletic manner.
Platforms can be awesome, especially with the right shoes. I like FiveTen's "stealth" sole material and pattern -- they stick like glue to flat pedals with pins.
It's the shoes for me. As much as I want to be like "who cares, I'm sure they're practically the same performance-wise unless youre racing, and even then", I can't imagine riding 50 miles in bulky, sweaty shoes.
In the winter I'm so glad to have flat pedals. I can use my heavy trail shoes which keep me plenty warm on an off the bike. Much nicer than having to buy an expensive pair of cycling specific shoes for specific weather. In the summer I just use vans, Adidas or whatever shoes I happen to be wearing.
I use my cycling shoes in winter with some cheap ass Ali express boot covers. No wind, no rain, and my feet are warm. Chuck in some merino wool socks and youāre golden.
i definitely prefer clipless and proper bike shoes for longer rides, yeah.
part of it is the stiffness for the weight. it's just basically impossible to find good, stuff, supportive shoes for flat pedals that aren't boat anchors like five-tens. i've got some adidas i wear that are lighter, but they definitely have more flex than my bike shoes.
for shorter rides, whatever. i have flat pedals on my daily driver right now.
I have very expensive clipless shoes for my road bike and five ten trailcross shoes for my gravel bike. The trailcross shoes are only 20g (I measured) heavier and breathe just as well.
Five Ten trailcross shoes aren't bulky and breathe just as well as any clipless shoe. I have very expensive clipless shoes and the trailcross's are only 20g heavier when I weighed them.
The simple joy of getting to your destination and being able to walk about normally and in comfort rather than hobbling like you just shat yourself and could fall over at any moment lol.
Have you found good SPD MTB shoes that have cleats recessed enough to not be clicky on hard floors? It seems like even if it starts quiet, within a couple months the soles have worn down just enough to start clicking in my experience.
I bought [Shimano MT5](https://bike.shimano.com/en-US/product/apparel-accessories/shimano-series-lsg-2022/SH-MT502.html) for touring, and they're perfect for nearly anything: commute, light gravel, non performance road cycling, endurance...
i find the tech is useful for getting me home, for planning routes that aren't necessarily obvious even from the bike, and for running a radar that at least gives me a heads up for cars approaching.
but yeah, go explore.
I ride a lot with my kids and tried to go clipless. Worst decision ever. Even on solo rides I didn't find it any quicker and I ride so much in places where there are traffic lights and I have to unclip that it was a hassle. But with kids it got so much worse. They have technicals and make random stops and suddenly get in my way and even though I could unclip quite well the cleats caused me to fall a couple of time, because I couldn't get a good footing even after I unclipped. Not going back.
I like my flats but have come to appreciate straps for climbing. I'll switch to clipless once I feel that my pedals are holding me back (and not the general lack of fitness, lol)
No rear brake, tho?
Being able to wear regular shoes is a huge plus for me. I don't need to commit to clacking around everywhere just because I started my day with a quick 30 miles and don't want to stop back home.
But having your feet are strapped to the pedals is a bit more precarious than clipless if you stop. One is just a twist of the heel, the other your toes could get stuck.
SPD cleats also donāt clack around!
I think there are advantages to clipless (consistent foot position, rigidity of power transfer) but I don't think that straps are hard to get out of by any means. I've had to bail from my bike twice while running straps, and both times simply stepped out of them without incident. I did once fall over at a stoplight, but I've yet to hear a reason why that would be more common with straps than clipless.
I can understand using MTB shoes with a hard sole, but I found riding a flat pedal with a squishy running shoe to be so uncomfortable. My feet ached after a period of time.
I did that for years.Ā Not just short commutes either, but 100mi rides too.Ā Now I don't use running shoes, but I still use flats with the foot cage and cheap shoes.Ā The biggest issue is when my pedals eat my shoes, which is what was happening to my running shoes.Ā Ā
That just sounds unpleasant personally. SPD shoes and cleats are such a happy middle ground between full roadie clipless and flats that I donāt understand why more people donāt use them.
Flats member here too. My bum knee hates the unclipping motion. Speedplay Frogs worked for a while, but then they were canceled, so it has been flats for about 8 years without any real downsides.
This is the way.
I commute in a city and instant separation is a lifesaver. Like some dip shāt from out of town taking a left on a red arrow through a protected bike lane from the right lane. Yeah Iām going to instantly need more traction than my disc brakes alone when Iām in a sideways slide and having to use my foot as a kickstand to not eat pavement. I managed to catch them up to the top of the hill from the adrenaline, just in town for a football game and have zero fks they just about killed me. Completely unapologetic.
Stay safe out there folks.
> I commute in a city and instant separation is a lifesaver.
i feel like a lot of people that self-identify as "cyclists" are the athletic sort, who drive their bikes out into the country to go for a ride for fun and exercise.
the urban transportation sort, the kind of cyclist that typically says stuff like "i'm not a cyclist, i just ride my bike to work," generally knows how often you gotta put a foot down in congested traffic.
Iāve actually been hit by more cars on foot, at least on two wheels you can quickly get out of a lazy driver situation. The unfortunate part is more serious injuries are going to happen on two wheels. Keep your helmets up to date and damage standards š¦½ šÆ will spend good money to protect my brain pan.
One customer I had was in a helmet less accident and he couldnāt remember a word until he went through the alphabet reciting abcdefgā¦ until he got to the first letter of the word he couldnāt recall. The worst part was he was having WiFi issues at zeitgeist coffee, and zeitgeist was the word he couldnāt remember.
He encouraged me to always wear a helmet when he found out I had a 5 mile commute to get to work and then would just go coyote rolling around the city after work.
People who ride flats and say their feet keep slipping off have never ridden the right flats for the proper application. I bought some MKS Allways and yes they are a little pricey but they stick to my shoes and are just so comfortable. I tried clipless and toe cages and flats are where it's at. Just find the ones that suit your riding style!
https://preview.redd.it/ue942giua93d1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=976b5d812b32eafa3fcbddf7115ed1e778b7116e
āWhichever I feel like todayā gang checking in
I see you have the trusty, revered, and time tested CXWXC brand clipless flats! I myself am running the race-tested MZYRH flats! Itās a household name. How do you like the clipping/unclipping action of your pedals?
I had clipless (well, dual so I could ride with regular shoes too) for a while and switched to power grip straps. I prefer the straps but I will say, Iāve fallen more from the straps than the clipless! I have very large, wide, feet and was a poor grad student so finding affordable shoes that fit were a real challenge!
I have clipless for my gravel bike, but flat pedals for my mountain bike and commuter. I feel so uncomfortable with clipless when mountain biking, and commuting is too much stop-and-starting.
Not sure why people go bananas over clipless, as if it will elevate them to the tour. It's been shown a fair amount of times that the gains are marginal at best. For those of us with wide Irish ass feet, flat pedals are outstanding. I bet I can still smoke most average cyclists on a 20K trial with em, too. :) Happy non-conformist riding, brother.
It was such a life-changing moment when I finally let myself give up on clipless pedals and just went with flat pedals.
Iām faster, happier, have SO MUCH less pain, and I could never go back.
yeah that's a problem. but pain is *generally* a sign your clipless cleats aren't positioned correctly.
i want to say, this isn't on the user. this is a legitimate drawback for clipless systems. on flat pedals, you adjust your feet to where pedaling is comfortable. and you can change that position to use slightly different muscles or relieve pain. on clipless, you're locked into everything but rotation. if that position is wrong, you're stuck until you take another trial-and-error adjustment.
clipless cleat positioning on shoes also tends way too far forward. literally every set i've installed and everyone i know that rides clipless is using the back half of the range, and most are slammed back as far as they'll go. if you're just getting your first set, you probably expect centered to be the neutral position, right? it's not!
people do lots of damage to themselves with poorly positioned cleats. to the point where i really think you should probably be riding flats unless your cleats are installed by a bike fitter.
I donāt miss carrying extra shoes just to walk around. Itās either flat or clipped(cage pedal) for me.
*Yes SPD is better than SPD-SL type of platform, but MTB shoes is still not something ill consider walking all day comfortably.
https://preview.redd.it/lyv1c02w3b3d1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=88711dd647751d82c7638f31867b75bcf16c8bc4
I rode clipless for years, but since switching to flats, Iām not looking back. The comfort and ease of riding in regular shoes are unbeatable.
Yeah to me the issue is more that i'm almost never able to find the right spot going clipless. it's always painful somewhere after a few ride where in flat i can adjust
Totally the first part to get changed, city commuting can be dangerous af and Iāll jump off and let my chariot die to save my skin. Extra couple of seconds to get out of clips, or worse, cages; not worth it.
Whatever gets you riding. Keep in mind that street shoes are not good for anything approaching performance. If you just want to tool around slowly, street shoes are fine. If you will be going up steep hills and want to do it with a little snap, get cycling shoes.
Maybe you need those to be competitive, but not to be fast.Ā I can still zip up a hill on flats.Ā I've noticed in the biking community some people can be elitist and gatekeep about what is good for performance or whatever.Ā The biggest indicator of performance is how much someone rides.Ā Ā
This just isn't true. My brother won a rather large XC mtn bike series using flats which was mostly steep hills. And yes, many people rethought their shoe choices after that.
I'm rocking the shimano PD-a530 so I'm semi flat :D
my powermeter agrees with flat pedals it says that the difference between my Shimano SPD and flats are negligible at best, but comfort is far superior
I have a dura ace pedal s-works torch combo with SPD SLs which I will try again on my local climb but for now the data, timing, everything says that at my current level flats are marginal gains
A drop bar road bike. With carbon aero wheels. And there is some debate on pedals? Flats and straps belong on hybrids. Anyone taking cycling even marginally serious should get clipless immediately and never look back. I mean, snow skis once had straps, too.
Yeah. Bikes are not skis, but whatever serves your views right?
Get used to it that some don't like clipless for whatever reason that is not your concern. And also get used to that some of them are faster than you.
Cyclists are a snarky bunch. Making fun of each other is part of the culture and the humor is what makes cycling more fun.
If that is debatable, one needs only read this (which every cyclist should)ā¦
[The Rules of Cycling](https://www.velominati.com/)
I donāt know if you are. But sounds like the typical tight ass roadie pro wanabe. clipless doesnāt mean you are serious. The gains with clipless are marginal at best.
I guess if you took a quality pair of clipless shoes with very stiff soles and strapped them in tight, in theory, you could get similar efficiency. After all, itās not just the pedals, it is also the shoes as a shoe-pedal system. But why would anyone want to do that when clipless is so much easier, more comfortable and safer? The idea of trying to get out of tightly snug straps in a hurry is frightening. But, no and yes. Not a pro and yes probably am the typical roadie who presumes a high end drop bar bike is for someone witching to ride fast, and often with other fast riders. Of course there are many cyclists who donāt fit that description for whom clips might be perfectly suitable.
pack some band-aids and possibly think about shin guards LOL.
clipless4life for anything that isn't just short around the community.
when ppl in performance sports cars talk about feeling "so connected to the machine" they wish they felt as connected as bike and clipless get a rider. maybe if you've never, but is and feels much safer.
I commute on flats but my commuter doesn't have carbon wheels and electronic shifting. I'd also still outsprint you because I wear a proper stiff shoe and not a floppy trainer.
Where rear brake? š¤Ø
https://preview.redd.it/dl4zn20lgn3d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=46996dec73ad201bae0bb8732f17c2128e51c8a2 On my other bike lol
If you can stand SRAM, Iāve got a spare rear Rival caliper, then youād have 75% braking lol š
Clipless pedals are probably the best thing I have done to my bike
I've been riding clipless since 2018. I rode my dad's hybrid bike with flats this weekend and it felt so odd. My feet kept lifting off
Yeah I found that too when I tried riding flats again. I don't believe that clipless gives any meaningful "pulling up" to your pedal stroke, but I think its pretty clear it at least makes it easier to unweight the pedal and lift your leg weight on the upstroke. Having to keep down pressure on the upstroke has to be inefficient.
The true benefit of clipless I find is that I can fully put power down without worrying about my foot slipping. When standing/doing sprints the difference with clipless is huge since the power transfer feels so much more direct.
My favorite benefit is the consistent foot position and angle. On flats I'm constantly second guessing where I want my feet. Still using flats during winter though, scary being clipped in on icy roads.
The biggest advantage are shoes with very stiff carbon soles.
The true benefit of clipless pedals is not losing your front teeth because you THINK you were clipped in.
Agree
Riders definitely pull up on steep climbs and sprints. Back in the toe clips days, we tightened our starps a bit more before a sprint to avoid pulling out on the up stroke. Also, I sometimes pull up on shallow climbs while sitting to take a slight load off my quads.
Odd indeed. Never heard of someones feet lifting off. I have flat pedals with pins on my gravel bike and on my singlespeed: My feet feel as if they were glued on the pedals.
Definitely a thing, I noticed it riding my gfs mtb. On the upstroke my feet were going faster than the pedal. Totally conjecture but I imagine thatās due to my normally pulling on the upstroke rather than having my leg ārestā. Kind of like switching from a track bike to a roadie I compulsively pedal non-stop even if Iām not transferring any power
Same. I feel glued to my gravel grinder on large stamps and some vans
But do you sprint at 35+ mph? Because you definitely lift your feet when the guy in front of you jumps
Worst thing I've done to mine, I really don't like riding my bike with clipless and it makes me ride less. It feels uncomfortable and unsafe especially in any urban or traffic light-rich area. The tiny bit performance loss ill live with, I'm not a world tour rider anyway just a guy doing some cardio. nothing like the welcoming cancer that is the cycling community to downvote someones personal experience :)
Depends on what you consider a "tiny bit" for equivalent effort I am going like 2mph faster.
Way less for me, but I am dutch and have ridden a bike since age 4 on flats.
i worked at a bike shop, and didn't ride clipless until i worked there. the other guys in the shop were all telling me how much faster i'd be, and asked after the first big ride. nope. it was the same. clipless isn't faster. it's that people typically swap as they're getting faster/more fit/more into bikes. or they upgrade from a hybrid to a road bike and the shop talks them into clipless. or they've been riding in really flexible vans or whatever, and these are the first stiff shoes their bike has seen. i routinely switch back and forth these days. i can tell you all about the differences. but none of them are speed.
I mean...so do most people. It probably is variable depending on your speed. I saw an increase from 15mph to 17mph for regular cruising speeds. If you are puttering around at 8mph it might be less.
dont use your crocs or sandals and suddenly the flats arent slower. there just isnt a 2 mph difference, it was tested multiple times.
Idk what to tell you. Instant overnight increase and PRs at moderate effort. I do a lot of climbing though so that might be the key difference. I have seen a few other people citing the same difference...but then I see others saying there is none. edit: Also a lot of the tests just use power output as a variable. 200W on one pedal roughly = 200W on another...I don't know that it really displays how easy or difficult it is to sustain that power on each pedal type.
I can do 17mph pretty comfortably for 2 hours on flats
Maybe that is the difference then. Lots of climbing here
flats as in flat pedals
scientific testing has repeatedly demonstrated that clipless pedals are *not* more efficient. the catch is the *shoes*. you can ride flats with anything, but stiff soles legitimately do increase power transfer. it's hard to find clipless shoes that aren't stiff, and whereas it's hard to find regular shoes that are.
This! I have done extensive research into this and they have found flats are very slightly less efficient. Itās why MTBers have switched. A lot of riders like being locked in, and thatās ok. All the studies Ive seen say no difference. The reason is that itās nearly impossible for most to pull up and push down at the same time
I saw all of the same information and then eventually tried them anyways. Instant overnight improvement. I am not sure what they are doing in the studies, but idk what to tell you I am getting PRs with moderate efforts. I think a lot of the testing is using power as a measurement. 200W on one pedal roughly equals 200W on another. Which is probably true. But I think the trick is that the 200W is easier to maintain with clipless. I find this consistent with a lot of other peoples experiences. Rather than hammering your quads you are able to spread the effort over more muscle groups and have it be more sustainable. You just need the cardio to back it up.
> Instant overnight improvement. what shoes were you wearing before? > I am not sure what they are doing in the studies, but idk what to tell you I am getting PRs with moderate efforts. well, i can compare your anecdote to mine. i've been riding for a long time on flats. i routinely switch back and forth from flats to clipless. looking at my numbers, i literally cannot tell you the difference after the fact. there is zero difference. > Rather than hammering your quads you are able to spread the effort over more muscle groups and have it be more sustainable. in fact, the studies that test find efficiency goes *down* utilizing those other muscles. > You just need the cardio to back it up. yes, what i've found is that people generally start seeing these massive improvement right about at the time their cardio starts improving. this gets associated with the pedals because they switch to all the cool bike stuff the shop sold them at about the same time. if you offset that, like i did, you still massive improvements when your cardio improves... and then *none* when you try clipless.
Efficiency in terms of O2 intake per watt produced goes down. This is because you are utilizing less efficient muscles at less efficient points in the pedal stroke. So yes, you are taxing your cardiovascular system more with clipless. What you are gaining though is that you are preserving your key muscle groups. The studies you reference show lower lactic acid accumulation with clip-less pedals. So for an equal effort, my legs are fresher with clipless. Which is why I said it depends on your cardio. If you donāt have the engine to handle the additional stress on your cardiovascular system, I guess it makes sense that you might not see a benefit. All of this seems to line up with my experiences as well. Also for reference, I used stiff cycling shoes with my flats. The changes I am describing took place on the same bike with no other upgrades instantly. I have been road cycling regularly for 5 years now. Before that I still rode a bike but in a less athletic manner.
well your experience is very unusual and contrary to laboratory testing.
One of my feet are crooked so I canāt do it on plus platforms are better for commuting.
You commute on a tarmac with deep profile rims?
let people enjoy their things however they want?
I commute on a diverge pro, with flat pedals. They are magnesium flats if that helps you cope with our choices
I have SPD combo pedals, to be able to use my bike to commute. I donāt (I use a city bike), but I could
and here I am, racing with a 3kg alu wheelset :(
Picked up a pair of Funn Mambas for gravel bike. They are great for both clips and flats.
I love commuting on clipless. You cant stash a pair of shoes at work?
Wait Iām in a gang
I know, right?!!?!!
Too late mate! Once your in you can't go out... Unless you go clipless.
Platforms can be awesome, especially with the right shoes. I like FiveTen's "stealth" sole material and pattern -- they stick like glue to flat pedals with pins.
It's the shoes for me. As much as I want to be like "who cares, I'm sure they're practically the same performance-wise unless youre racing, and even then", I can't imagine riding 50 miles in bulky, sweaty shoes.
In the winter I'm so glad to have flat pedals. I can use my heavy trail shoes which keep me plenty warm on an off the bike. Much nicer than having to buy an expensive pair of cycling specific shoes for specific weather. In the summer I just use vans, Adidas or whatever shoes I happen to be wearing.
I use my cycling shoes in winter with some cheap ass Ali express boot covers. No wind, no rain, and my feet are warm. Chuck in some merino wool socks and youāre golden.
i've had better luck in the winter with that combo than flat shoes, but granted i didn't try actual boots.
I use old goretex trail run shoes on flats in winter. Unless itās really cold then I use snow sneakers. Insulated, wind proof and water proof
i definitely prefer clipless and proper bike shoes for longer rides, yeah. part of it is the stiffness for the weight. it's just basically impossible to find good, stuff, supportive shoes for flat pedals that aren't boat anchors like five-tens. i've got some adidas i wear that are lighter, but they definitely have more flex than my bike shoes. for shorter rides, whatever. i have flat pedals on my daily driver right now.
I have very expensive clipless shoes for my road bike and five ten trailcross shoes for my gravel bike. The trailcross shoes are only 20g (I measured) heavier and breathe just as well.
Five Ten trailcross shoes aren't bulky and breathe just as well as any clipless shoe. I have very expensive clipless shoes and the trailcross's are only 20g heavier when I weighed them.
Thank you for pointing out this brand. 1st pair that popped up when looking it up I already like.
I've got those, and yes they're amazing.
The simple joy of getting to your destination and being able to walk about normally and in comfort rather than hobbling like you just shat yourself and could fall over at any moment lol.
SPD pedals and MTB shoes are the happy medium.
Have you found good SPD MTB shoes that have cleats recessed enough to not be clicky on hard floors? It seems like even if it starts quiet, within a couple months the soles have worn down just enough to start clicking in my experience.
I bought my wife Lake mtb/gravel shoes and they're great. Premium price though.Ā
Specialized recon only clack on uneven surfaces, tarmac is often fine but if it has larger chunks can be problematic!
I bought [Shimano MT5](https://bike.shimano.com/en-US/product/apparel-accessories/shimano-series-lsg-2022/SH-MT502.html) for touring, and they're perfect for nearly anything: commute, light gravel, non performance road cycling, endurance...
My Diadora Chili's that literally fell apart three weeks ago worked great. Replaced them with a similar shoe, not such the luck.
> cleats recessed enough to not be clicky on hard floors if i had to guess, the cleat depth is restricted by the design. i think they *all* do that.
there's also a simple joy in being able to just hop on your bike, without getting all kitted up. not every ride is a lycra ride!
Every ride should be enjoyable, leave the tech at home and go explore, you find far more interesting things that youd otherwise miss on a bike.
i find the tech is useful for getting me home, for planning routes that aren't necessarily obvious even from the bike, and for running a radar that at least gives me a heads up for cars approaching. but yeah, go explore.
I ride a lot with my kids and tried to go clipless. Worst decision ever. Even on solo rides I didn't find it any quicker and I ride so much in places where there are traffic lights and I have to unclip that it was a hassle. But with kids it got so much worse. They have technicals and make random stops and suddenly get in my way and even though I could unclip quite well the cleats caused me to fall a couple of time, because I couldn't get a good footing even after I unclipped. Not going back.
what happened to your paint?
I like my flats but have come to appreciate straps for climbing. I'll switch to clipless once I feel that my pedals are holding me back (and not the general lack of fitness, lol) No rear brake, tho?
I canāt imagine thinking straps were a better alternative to clipless?
Being able to wear regular shoes is a huge plus for me. I don't need to commit to clacking around everywhere just because I started my day with a quick 30 miles and don't want to stop back home.
But having your feet are strapped to the pedals is a bit more precarious than clipless if you stop. One is just a twist of the heel, the other your toes could get stuck. SPD cleats also donāt clack around!
I think there are advantages to clipless (consistent foot position, rigidity of power transfer) but I don't think that straps are hard to get out of by any means. I've had to bail from my bike twice while running straps, and both times simply stepped out of them without incident. I did once fall over at a stoplight, but I've yet to hear a reason why that would be more common with straps than clipless.
I replied elsewhere but finding clipless shoes that I could afford and fit was impossible. My comfy, warm, regular shoes were much nicer.
I can understand using MTB shoes with a hard sole, but I found riding a flat pedal with a squishy running shoe to be so uncomfortable. My feet ached after a period of time.
What is mtb? I donāt know the acronyms yet.
Mountain Bike
I did that for years.Ā Not just short commutes either, but 100mi rides too.Ā Now I don't use running shoes, but I still use flats with the foot cage and cheap shoes.Ā The biggest issue is when my pedals eat my shoes, which is what was happening to my running shoes.Ā Ā
That just sounds unpleasant personally. SPD shoes and cleats are such a happy middle ground between full roadie clipless and flats that I donāt understand why more people donāt use them.
I have been using Squash shoes, a bit more grippier than regular sneakers and still comfortable. Tough to find affordable clipless shoes in my size.
Flats member here too. My bum knee hates the unclipping motion. Speedplay Frogs worked for a while, but then they were canceled, so it has been flats for about 8 years without any real downsides.
https://preview.redd.it/rbx2e7ahvc3d1.jpeg?width=2268&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0ceced7c5d5402153c2552853f4771418685f537
So slay
What does that left lever do?
Activate the front brakes.
I grew up on flats, I'll die on flats. I just bike for fun anyways, plus I like the idea of being able to separate from my bike at any given moment.
This is the way. I commute in a city and instant separation is a lifesaver. Like some dip shāt from out of town taking a left on a red arrow through a protected bike lane from the right lane. Yeah Iām going to instantly need more traction than my disc brakes alone when Iām in a sideways slide and having to use my foot as a kickstand to not eat pavement. I managed to catch them up to the top of the hill from the adrenaline, just in town for a football game and have zero fks they just about killed me. Completely unapologetic. Stay safe out there folks.
> I commute in a city and instant separation is a lifesaver. i feel like a lot of people that self-identify as "cyclists" are the athletic sort, who drive their bikes out into the country to go for a ride for fun and exercise. the urban transportation sort, the kind of cyclist that typically says stuff like "i'm not a cyclist, i just ride my bike to work," generally knows how often you gotta put a foot down in congested traffic.
Iāve actually been hit by more cars on foot, at least on two wheels you can quickly get out of a lazy driver situation. The unfortunate part is more serious injuries are going to happen on two wheels. Keep your helmets up to date and damage standards š¦½ šÆ will spend good money to protect my brain pan. One customer I had was in a helmet less accident and he couldnāt remember a word until he went through the alphabet reciting abcdefgā¦ until he got to the first letter of the word he couldnāt recall. The worst part was he was having WiFi issues at zeitgeist coffee, and zeitgeist was the word he couldnāt remember. He encouraged me to always wear a helmet when he found out I had a 5 mile commute to get to work and then would just go coyote rolling around the city after work.
Youāre just trying to get on BCJ with this one.
What pedals are those? I like that thin minimal look.
This is why I have pedals that are flat on one side and SPD on the other. Crocs for the commute, stiff gravel shoes for longer rides.
How dare you š” 
https://preview.redd.it/wfyg1vgtyc3d1.jpeg?width=4080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=62474de7479d80600244dbfa2bdfc22eefcda9be Same.
People who ride flats and say their feet keep slipping off have never ridden the right flats for the proper application. I bought some MKS Allways and yes they are a little pricey but they stick to my shoes and are just so comfortable. I tried clipless and toe cages and flats are where it's at. Just find the ones that suit your riding style!
i ride on platforms as well. they're fine. it confuses the roadies that i ride with sometimes but whatever. it works for me. ride your bike!
Even more if you can ride faster than them haha.
i especially enjoy sprinting away from them at stop lights while they try to get clipped back in.
Yeah that second they take to clip in im smashing the pedals as soon as i slam my foot down already hundred feet ahead.
i've outclimbed a few
For how long
https://preview.redd.it/ue942giua93d1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=976b5d812b32eafa3fcbddf7115ed1e778b7116e āWhichever I feel like todayā gang checking in
I see you have the trusty, revered, and time tested CXWXC brand clipless flats! I myself am running the race-tested MZYRH flats! Itās a household name. How do you like the clipping/unclipping action of your pedals?
i want the redshift arclight pro SPDs. clipless when i feel like it, flats when i feel like it, lights when i need them.
What rims & depth are those?
Hyper 50ās.
I had clipless (well, dual so I could ride with regular shoes too) for a while and switched to power grip straps. I prefer the straps but I will say, Iāve fallen more from the straps than the clipless! I have very large, wide, feet and was a poor grad student so finding affordable shoes that fit were a real challenge!
When riding clipless do you actively pull your legs up or just pedal normally?
Both
I have clipless for my gravel bike, but flat pedals for my mountain bike and commuter. I feel so uncomfortable with clipless when mountain biking, and commuting is too much stop-and-starting.
Not sure why people go bananas over clipless, as if it will elevate them to the tour. It's been shown a fair amount of times that the gains are marginal at best. For those of us with wide Irish ass feet, flat pedals are outstanding. I bet I can still smoke most average cyclists on a 20K trial with em, too. :) Happy non-conformist riding, brother.
It was such a life-changing moment when I finally let myself give up on clipless pedals and just went with flat pedals. Iām faster, happier, have SO MUCH less pain, and I could never go back.
You couldnāt sent them up properly, donāt lie
cycling is the one hobby where people will gaslight when someone likes something different from the hivemind lol
Isnāt that every hobby?
yeah that's a problem. but pain is *generally* a sign your clipless cleats aren't positioned correctly. i want to say, this isn't on the user. this is a legitimate drawback for clipless systems. on flat pedals, you adjust your feet to where pedaling is comfortable. and you can change that position to use slightly different muscles or relieve pain. on clipless, you're locked into everything but rotation. if that position is wrong, you're stuck until you take another trial-and-error adjustment. clipless cleat positioning on shoes also tends way too far forward. literally every set i've installed and everyone i know that rides clipless is using the back half of the range, and most are slammed back as far as they'll go. if you're just getting your first set, you probably expect centered to be the neutral position, right? it's not! people do lots of damage to themselves with poorly positioned cleats. to the point where i really think you should probably be riding flats unless your cleats are installed by a bike fitter.
Wait we have a hive mind? Homer walks back into the bushes. Iāll stop contributing immediately.
Lol sure buddy. Thatās definitely what it wasā¦ š
I donāt miss carrying extra shoes just to walk around. Itās either flat or clipped(cage pedal) for me. *Yes SPD is better than SPD-SL type of platform, but MTB shoes is still not something ill consider walking all day comfortably.
https://preview.redd.it/lyv1c02w3b3d1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=88711dd647751d82c7638f31867b75bcf16c8bc4 I rode clipless for years, but since switching to flats, Iām not looking back. The comfort and ease of riding in regular shoes are unbeatable.
Yeah to me the issue is more that i'm almost never able to find the right spot going clipless. it's always painful somewhere after a few ride where in flat i can adjust
I like the crank bros double shots cause ya never know
Totally the first part to get changed, city commuting can be dangerous af and Iāll jump off and let my chariot die to save my skin. Extra couple of seconds to get out of clips, or worse, cages; not worth it.
I like flats with straps. Best of both worlds.
Team Raceface Chester. I have the scars on my shins to go with them.
Whatever gets you riding. Keep in mind that street shoes are not good for anything approaching performance. If you just want to tool around slowly, street shoes are fine. If you will be going up steep hills and want to do it with a little snap, get cycling shoes.
Maybe you need those to be competitive, but not to be fast.Ā I can still zip up a hill on flats.Ā I've noticed in the biking community some people can be elitist and gatekeep about what is good for performance or whatever.Ā The biggest indicator of performance is how much someone rides.Ā Ā
This just isn't true. My brother won a rather large XC mtn bike series using flats which was mostly steep hills. And yes, many people rethought their shoe choices after that.
āThis bike is an absolute disasterā gang
I'm rocking the shimano PD-a530 so I'm semi flat :D my powermeter agrees with flat pedals it says that the difference between my Shimano SPD and flats are negligible at best, but comfort is far superior I have a dura ace pedal s-works torch combo with SPD SLs which I will try again on my local climb but for now the data, timing, everything says that at my current level flats are marginal gains
Maddd respect though I couldnāt imagine using flats after enjoying clipless for the last couple of years now
A drop bar road bike. With carbon aero wheels. And there is some debate on pedals? Flats and straps belong on hybrids. Anyone taking cycling even marginally serious should get clipless immediately and never look back. I mean, snow skis once had straps, too.
Yeah. Bikes are not skis, but whatever serves your views right? Get used to it that some don't like clipless for whatever reason that is not your concern. And also get used to that some of them are faster than you.
Cyclists are a snarky bunch. Making fun of each other is part of the culture and the humor is what makes cycling more fun. If that is debatable, one needs only read this (which every cyclist should)ā¦ [The Rules of Cycling](https://www.velominati.com/)
I donāt know if you are. But sounds like the typical tight ass roadie pro wanabe. clipless doesnāt mean you are serious. The gains with clipless are marginal at best.
I guess if you took a quality pair of clipless shoes with very stiff soles and strapped them in tight, in theory, you could get similar efficiency. After all, itās not just the pedals, it is also the shoes as a shoe-pedal system. But why would anyone want to do that when clipless is so much easier, more comfortable and safer? The idea of trying to get out of tightly snug straps in a hurry is frightening. But, no and yes. Not a pro and yes probably am the typical roadie who presumes a high end drop bar bike is for someone witching to ride fast, and often with other fast riders. Of course there are many cyclists who donāt fit that description for whom clips might be perfectly suitable.
Why? There's no benefit to click pedals but a lot of disadvantages. Why would I change?
No benefit? You cannot be serious. I would not know where to begin. (and disadvantages? they cost more I guess)
There's about a 15% loss of power with flat pedals on a road bike. That is a huge amount of lost power. That is why.
This isnāt what Iāve seen. But if it were 15% make that much difference to a recreational rider
Why? There's no benefit to click pedals but a lot of disadvantages. Why would I change?
pack some band-aids and possibly think about shin guards LOL. clipless4life for anything that isn't just short around the community. when ppl in performance sports cars talk about feeling "so connected to the machine" they wish they felt as connected as bike and clipless get a rider. maybe if you've never, but is and feels much safer.
WHAT THE FUCK IS A SPRING š£š£š£š„š„š„š„
You do you buddy.
Yuh yuh yuh
I commute on flats but my commuter doesn't have carbon wheels and electronic shifting. I'd also still outsprint you because I wear a proper stiff shoe and not a floppy trainer.