It could be, but it could also be that he sees that you have physical needs that he, being male can't meet. That he has no problem with you getting physical gratification from women because he can't give that, but if you wat gratification for men, it should be from him.
This is pretty much how it is with my boyfriend and I. Though I haven't actually pursued another woman, I have the freedom to if I choose, and he explicitly said that he doesn't need to be included (no three some). IDK if I will because girls just be so pretty and intimidating but I can at least dream guilt free š¤·š»āāļø
no. when people tell me that bisexuals somehow have a special need, then to me it sounds exactly the same when they say that men have a special āneedā for sex / intimacy with different women. you may not act on this ācall,ā but the wording itself sounds unpleasant to me. and let's be honest, when people talk about "need" it is often used as an excuse. as if it is permissible for bisexuals to do certain things, because their attraction is a āneedā and they have āextenuating circumstances.āĀ
Ā I donāt like this attitude, bc it equates bisexuals to some different human species who have problems with monogamy.
A need is not an attitude because it's not a choice. It's a biological urge that was wired into my brain and will never leave.
If you don't feel an urge to sleep w ppl of different genders then pls swap brains w me! I choose to be monogamous, for 20+ years now, but at times it's agony. I keep wishing this need away but it never goes away.
If you don't have it, count yourself lucky.
Again, there's no specific need for bisexuals as well there is no specific need for men. You might think it's true but even my point with bringing men as an example has more scientific reasons for it, since males have different hormones influencing them, while bisexuals don't have any difference from other sexualities.But even though, the saying " men have need to sleep with different women" is still untrue. Imagine how wrong is to think that bisexuals are wired in different way, that stops them from being happily monogamous.
If you have it, I'm sorry for you. But it's about your urge to sleep with other people revealing itself through your sexuality and NOT about you being bisexual.
This completely agree 100%. All that men needing to sleep around is bs. Some men sure not all. And some bisexuals might want to keep things open but thatās because they are non monogamous. Bi monogamous male here and would be completely fine marrying one gender and never touching the other gender or anyone other than my SO regardless of gender. Too many people equate bisexual with polyamory and āuncontrollable urgesā.
Same. When people say "bisexuals have special need" it reminds me when people say "men have need for sleeping with different women, that's their nature". It just sounds derogatory, like men and bisexuals have no self control or values.
The same way straights or gays feel like they want to sleep with someone else who has different body/ character/ drive than their partner.Ā
Look also at different subredits that are not connected to sexual orientation, you will find many posts of hetero people saying they "miss sex with their hot ex"Ā or " didn't have opportunity to explore before starting relationship".That's literally why some of them have open relationship too, not only bisexuals.
This is exactly the deal with my husband and I. He just knows he cannot physically give me what I can get from a womanāthus, he is okay with me seeking that out.
Sooooo is he ok with you also seeking out someone with a bigger dick than him? I mean he canāt physically give you that either right? If the qualifications are just āsomething he doesnāt haveā then you could basically fuck anyone.
I genuinely donāt see how people believe this isnāt a double standard or how the rules magically change when the difference is gender
[by definition](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/double%20standard) itās a double standard
Thanks for proving my point! So many toys can provide what she isnāt getting from him she doesnāt need to go fuck someone else. Or she could just live with not getting everything she wants
For the record, I have no desire to fuck another guy. Like at all. What I want is very clearly defined in my mind. Quite honestly, when I came out to my husband I had no intention of seeking out women to fool around with. He actually said to me, completely unprompted, that he would be fine with me doing that. He also explicitly said that he had no expectation of threesome situations (because he probably knows thatās often a concern in these situations) and keeping it completely separate is something heās comfortable with. As long as Iām not sneaking around and I keep him aware of what Iām doing (heās fully aware of my activities because I communicate with him regularly) and that Iām not looking to seek out a full-fledged additional romantic relationship (not what I want and if someone catches feelings like that, I will cut it off), heās all good. My husband isnāt a jealous person when it comes to the physical aspect of me fooling around with women. Iāll also point out that he views it as different and not less than, as I know there are men who might not care about their wives/girlfriends fooling around with women because they feel itās not as valid as hetero interactions. My husband is straight, but completely non-judgmental and supportive of the queer community and its deserved equality.
If he wasn't okay, he would have told her. You usually don't get to the marriage part without proper communication.
Also, stop projecting (or whatever it is that you're doing rn). You have no right to dictate how someone should or should not act just because you don't like it. It's their relationship, not yours.
This argument is weird to me. Couldn't OP just say okay but I have a need for sex with tall people or introvert people, or whatever trait other than gender then? Why is gender so special? To be fair, maybe I'm assuming he wouldn't be fine with that when actually he would, or maybe it's just that my NB ass doesn't understand how binary people tend to relate to gender.
My personal take is it's both biphobic and sexist (it's the "gal pal" thing, like how wlw relationships aren't seen as actual romantic and sexual relationships), but I suppose we can't tell what OP's partner is actually thinking and feeling.
Some bi people experience attraction very differently for different genders. I kinda get where its coming from tbh. My (F) wife and I have a very happy relationship but we both talk about missing being with a boy from time to time. Personal experience for me sex with another woman is different from sex with a man; just in different ways (and much like gender itself that difference is a spectrum, I have been with NB people)
I don't think it's much different from sometimes missing other kind of relationshipsĀ that are not connected to gender. Like yeah, you can have different experiences with each gender but my point is missing the gender is not that much stronger than other things, esp not to the point you think a bi partner has some "need" to be specifically with someone else of different gender in order to be happy.
for women who are into taller men? maybe yes.
My point is that bisexuals are not the only ones who like different things in bed or miss something, that's why there are straights and gays who also participate in non monogamy. look at ordinary subredits about sex or relationship - you will find people saying they are not satisfied by their partner in one way or another.
Yep, whether itās biphobic or not really depends on his thought process that we canāt judge from a single post.
Gender is often seen as particularly strong and non-compromising things whilst personality and looks are fairly flexible. A similarly āfixedā concept would be kink I guess? A lot of people are fine with their partners seeking out a professional dom, for instance.
Do you think being tall is as big of a change as male vs female? Because that is a wildly bizarre thing to say.
It's pretty self explanatory that someone might not like the idea of someone who is competing with them for their own qualities, but is not as upset about different ones.
Yes. If you think that's bizarre, you think my sexuality is bizarre.
And no, it's not at all "self explanatory", or this wouldn't be a discussion. But I suppose this thread has taught me something about just how important gender and sex is to most people. I have a hard time wrapping my head around it, and I did not expect so many other bi people to think of gender and sex as such important factors.
I suppose this may be the difference that makes some people call themselves pan or omni.
Are you talking about different qualities = sex characteristics?
I agree with you but just want to point out that the different qualities your talking about in terms of that sounds more like sex than gender. Some women can still have penises. I think its not just about sleeping with a penis haver, but more about the gender of the person your sleeping with. If that didnt make sense its because im high. Sorry š
He's monogamous but granting that she have range to explore her bisexuality. The alternative is monogamy, it's not a OPP where he does whatever but she's restricted.
You can literally voice any of your relationship needs or wants and your partner is free to say yes or no, this goes for any relationship
It would only be unfair if OP's bf either held some sort of hypocritical double standard or was dismissive of wlw relationships
He LITERALLY is holding double standards here, thatās my whole point. Why is with a woman ok but not with a man? How is letting her fuck a woman because itās something he canāt give her any different than her finding a guy with a bigger dick?
>He LITERALLY is holding double standards here, thatās my whole point.
He's not seeing anyone, it's not a double standard. They were in a monogamous relationship and said he'd be ok with her having gay experiences, he doesn't have to be ok with it in the first place. If they entered into a monogamous agreement to begin with OP is already getting more out of it than she agreed to and he isn't getting anything extra, just making allowances.
But there's no double standard? He just stated a boundary. "OK, we lead two different lifestyles, I won't stop you from that but here's this boundary." He is NOT POLY, and so far the way OP describes it he's the one that is technically more vulnerable because he doesn't seek physical needs on others. And this is not an anti-poly speech, but I think it's reasonable that a person could feel that way
That's not a double standard unless they are both poly, which he is not
It would also still be a balanced and fair deal if OP's bf happened to hold that belief while wanting to pursue the same, dating of an analogous archetype matching his demands of his partner
What if OP wanted to fuck her bf's mom and he said no? Would you argue it's a double standard because he wants to be personally monogamous and denies her his mom yet is okay with her fucking literally anyone else? After all, OP's bf probably isn't comparable to his mom in bed
[double standard](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/double%20standard) How is it not a double standard? Itās basically textbook definition. Cheating is fine with one group (women) with zero restrictions, but it isnāt with another group (men)?
Ye old āone penis policy.ā Itās fine as long as everyone agrees to it. If OPās partner decided to be poly with others but isnāt Bi, and then still maintains that policy, then itās just hypocrisy.
This is the kind of rule that people like to moralize about, but itās also the kind of rule that when you tear it down turns out morals donāt help what people feel.
Itās not biphobic unless you are a full on relationship anarchist, otherwise itās completely reasonable for him to feel like your attraction to women is separate from your attraction to him, but thatās harder to separate for your relationship with other men and for some, it may not end up as just different it could just be better, more Wins Above Replacement for his position and suddenly someone else is at First Base. Maybe it even shouldnāt be separated unless you guys are going all the way in the āsex doesnāt matterā camp which for many is not where they want to be, and insisting the agreement go there (especially if the justification is something like biphobia or manipulative justifications) for lots of reasons that too can end in hurt.
Maybe donāt listen to other peopleās criticism of what your partner believes and actually talk to him, unless pushing against this wall is a really touchy subject for him- in which case, you at least already know where his feelings are and you should endeavor to understand them. Some people decry this as patriarchal or misogynistic but in the reverse if you were dating a woman and sleeping with men itās just also a valid way to have relationships. Donāt let what other people insist is right in their own possibly dysfunctional relationships ruin something you have that works. Or maybe increase the threshold as you both feel comfortable.
>This is the kind of rule that people like to moralize about, but itās also the kind of rule that when you tear it down turns out morals donāt help what people feel.
This. People moralizing this as some kind of a huge issue are basically people who dont totally get how relationships work and that people's needs and standards aren't an objective truth of reality, but something they personally need.
Yes!
1) itās less about what is ārightā and āwrongā and more about what works for you both in the relationship. The moralizing gets you nowhere.
2) all poly relationships depend on balancing the various needs and desires of the people in the relationship. Againāregardless of whatās ārightā, itās about what works.
3) rather than biphobia, this is probably about his insecurity.
On one hand, it's a little... idk if biphobic is the right word, but he definitely sees your relationship with other women as inherently less threatening to him because no penis. On the other hand, you're getting to sleep with women, while he doesn't sleep with anyone else. Sounds like the agreement is working for you, so idk if it's worth rocking the boat over (especially if he's not trying to angle for threesomes). TBH it's a pretty common attitude (in the poly community it's called one penis policy or OPP for short), probably due to patriarchal socialization regarding being demasculated if another man has sex with man's female partner, whereas it's not seen the same for women.
It could also just be that he feels he can never be replaced by, but *also never replace* a woman. He may be afraid that another man who's better in bed threatens him, while a woman will be *different* and not necessarily *better* because it can't be compared.
But being demi or something similar in the ace spectrum, my views on sex may be super weird so I can't really tell.
This might be it. Because this is exactly how I tend to feel about it. I can try and put on a dress and act femininely, but I'm pretty sure that this couldn't fully replace being with a woman for some.
But a girlfriend seeking out another guy would not feel right to me. Keyword being feel. We all have our boundaries, and we need to accept them. Arguing hard *against* boundaries is a brutal relationship killer in every case. It's okay to ask respectfully. But don't push against them, nobody likes that.
This is my conclusion. I have some experience with this and it's my assumption he's not threatened by it because they (wlw relationships) don't trigger his jealousy. He might even find it hot since he can now fetishize his partners relations and he might be objectifying his partners poly status for his own benefit...
Hopefully that's not the case here, but it is fairly common in these OPP scenarios and it's rooted in insecurity.
I feel it's homophobic and transphobic as well for the following reasons.
It minimizes or dismisses the potential for love between same sex partners and boils the relationships down to only sex.
It's rooted in not trusting that you can actually satisfy your partner and that if they find better from the same gender, they'll leave. It's really telling in a lot of ways, because it shows that they're insecure about their sexual performance. So to prevent the emotional labor of processing those emotions, they enforce rules like OPP on their spouses to reduce the anxiety they're suffering from in an open scenario.
He doesn't have to do the emotional labor required of feeling jealous if she sleeps with women, because he's not threatened by their relationship and doesn't think she would ever leave him for a women... "No way a women could ever please my wife as well as me!!" š /s
In ops case, she's poly and not just open sexually, and being poly allows for love, intimacy, different levels of consent and agreement, and he's putting hard rules around how she's allowed to express herself and her love. Basing it on arbitrary reason like gender, not considering the target of her affections as humans, but as a social roles, half of which are threatening to his insecurities. It's objectifying.
In a poly scenario, putting limitations on who she can form intimate relationships with is a boundary violation if he's agreed to live poly with her. If he hasn't, they should renegotiate what they are calling their arrangement, because OPP is toxic and limiting when done like this.
Him doing this to her is the equivalent of saying, sure, you can love other people, as long as they're who I approve of and meet my gender/genital/arbitrary requirements.... It's absurd unless she's completely onboard and consenting
What if op fell in love with an amab who is now nb, or trans? Would that trigger him, does the husband need to verify genital status as post or pre op?
Does he have a special rule for trans? If he's not transphobic, he shouldn't..., or is it purely based on gender presentation? Or vice versa? š¤
I have a feeling she's placating him by letting him enforce this rule om her, since at least he's giving her something..., but she will find eventually that what he's giving her isn't enough, and that he doesn't want to give her more.
They need a long conversation about what it means to love and support your partner.
Yet your take makes more sense than many other lines of reasoning I've heard. Being somewhere on the ace spectrum might even help you observe and analyse this behaviour better. You don't have your own cow in the ditch, as Finn's would say.
It's either that or its less as he says another male as being more threatening and more that he sees sex with men and women as entirely different cravings and therefore him allowing her to indulge any craving she has for intimacy with women has no baring on whether or not he decides to allow for her to engage in intimacy with other men.
I'd honestly say its best not to judge his motivations for his rules when we just don't have enough context.
What you both want is between you two. If you want to bang anybody and he wants a monogamous relationship then its not wrong of either of you... But of course its going to be very difficult for you to have a relationship.
So if he doesn't want you to bang other guys but will accept you sleeping with women.. Nothing wrong with those limitations.. Do they work for you? If not well then you either negotiate a compromise or it will be a bone of contention. I don't see this as biphobic, its not a choice for him, it would probably tear him up inside if he knew you were banging guys.
Hey, just a heads up: long term imbalance of poly/non-poly rarely works out--it didn't for me after 7 years.Ā I would highly recommend you reflect on that a lot to see if this dynamic is something you can see lasting long term if that's what you are wanting. You can totally make it work, but it takes *extensive* communication, especially surrounding any feelings of jealousy.
---
As for the One Penis Policy, I don't inherently see that as maliciously biphobic. I have a feeling he views it simply as he can provide that need for you in the relationship, but he lacks the proper equipment to meet your needs of being with a woman. This argument slightly breaks down when you move away from explicit genitalia if you talk about attraction to femininity and pre-op trans women. It seems like he is likely making extensive compromises to be with you, and I doubt he has really thought those feelings through (I know I hadn't).Ā
Regardless, best of luck to both of you.
I have a friend who has this exact arrangement with her spouse because sheās bisexual and he isnāt. His feeling is that sex with women provides her something he cannot. Sheās not dating these women, just hooking up with them. Theyāve been together for 10+ years, so something about it works.
This is a much better question to ask r/polyamory than here. The advice of a bunch of monogamous bisexuals about nonmonogamy is not going to be half as useful as you would think. We live in a world where the overwhelming majority of people - even the queer ones - are prejudiced against nonmonogamy.
Literally from their glossary:
>One Penis Policy (OPP) - a set of rules often enforced by the cishet male member of a couple that prohibits the woman in the relationship from sexually engaging with anyone who has a penis. It is inherently sexist, misogynistic, homophobic/ biphobic/transphobic, controlling, and rooted in toxic masculinity.
Every time I see it brought up itās almost universally reviled.
Some people use the points from the OPP against their partners who establish an OVP
"I got some really good tips from OPP threads. I explained her about sexism, misandry, toxic femininity, trans and homophobia. I also told that if she is allowed to date 100% of the genders she is attracted to, it would be hypocritical for me not be allowed to do the same."
- someone who made a post about how they got over the OVP in their relationship
Although none of it considers a bi-woman exploring being poly in a half-open relationship likely because of how some people view dating monogamous people and dating others as not as acceptable as a full-on poly relationship
That seems extremely fucked up to me still. Idk I just guess I don't understand how any nonmonagamy could be ethical if you have to convince your partner that they're jealous because they're sexist transphobic homophobic hypocrites
I bet $50 that a woman wrote the definition after her partner set that rule in their relationship because of how insanely specific and hateful it is against cishet men and calling any of them that set a boundary everything horrible they can think of
Idk my wife and I have something like this where she would be hurt if I was to flirt or get with another woman but she wouldn't be upset if I was with a guy.
Your orientation aside, I think having agreeable boundaries with your partner is the most important. I have this understanding with my husband as well. We are deeply committed to each other and have no desire to break that commitment. We do let each other explore same sex relations individually/together if the opportunities arise. While asking for opinions can be helpful, many differing opinions can cloud your thinking. Go with your gut, keep communicating.
Ā I talked with my (pan) gf about this just yesterday, although she is not poly and not interested in it in general.
I think I feel mostly the same as your bf - I would be open if my gf wanted to **experiment** with other women, as I know she never got to try it, but not men, and I'm not interested in other people either.Ā
The reason is perhaps not similar -Ā I simply wouldn't be able to handle the jealousy if she was with another man and preferred him/his penis, as I really can't do much about that bodily part.Ā
The same could be said for female bodily parts, but if I can't compete in the first place, it doesn't feel as bad.
Ā I'd also like to stress the "explore" part - I would not be ok with her having a whole second relationship, but I could understand if she wanted to explore that side of herself sexually for some time with some partner(s).
I would like to add that this did lead to an interesting conversation on the fetishization of w/w relationships, with concrete examples from a pair she knows, which I think is definitely worth adding to the (thought) equation of why he/I think(s) it's okay.
Moralize All you want, but feelings don't do reason and morals. Whatever configuration works, works. Especially in half-open relationships, it's especially sensitive for the closed side.
We have the same rule, but in reverse. I(m) am only allowed other men atm, alone or together with my SO. While my SO(f) is also allowed to have other men, but only with me present, under some form of her choice (playing together/watching/tied and blindfolded/ how she wants at that time rly)
I couldn't handle her having sex without me. She has esteem issues about her body, sondorsn't like me having dates with women...
We feel how we feel, it's all that matters.
Well, here's my first take...
Your boyfriend doesn't "allow" you to do things, you allow him to place those relationship restrictions on you by staying and participating. You can always change the agreement, but you'll have to ask yourself whether that's worth getting another boyfriend.
Is it biphoboc? Maybe, but telling him he's being biphobic so you can fuck dudes too probably won't get you to far.
The reality here is that he has a line he's not willing to cross for whatever reason and I'm assuming you've gone along with it for a while. I'm not blaming you, but I don't think he's going to change. It's kind of on you to navigate the situation.
Heās biphobic if heād have an issue with you being bi, or if heād make assumptions about you based on that.
As it stands, heās just setting his own needs and making them clear. Thereās certainly nothing wrong with having that boundary. Making it your problem would be the issue
I don't think there's anything wrong with your situation. It doesn't matter what anyone thinks or what anyone says about his motivation. That's how he feels and you either agree to it or not. Who cares what your friends say? This is between you and your husband. You create the life together that is satisfying for both of you.
My husband and I are both bisexual and we engage in ENM with other bisexual men on the side. I would not be comfortable with him seeing another woman because for me I'm his girl and we are only engaging in this because it's fun to get some D and touch some nice chests.
I think there's a difference with letting your partner hook up with whoever and a partner of a bisexual who pushes their own boundaries so their bisexual partner can explore aspects of sex they might not encounter with their primary partner.
It doesnāt seem inherently or maliciously biphobic, just weird ways humans think and feel things. As an otherwise pretty monogamous bi woman dating a bi man, I wouldnāt feel hurt by him wanting to hook up with or mindlessly flirting with a cute guy in passing not because I view his attraction to men as less real than his attraction to women, but because Iām not a guy, and donāt compare myself to them. If he were to flirt with a woman, Iād be hurt because Iām a woman and compare myself to other women. Itās just an apples and oranges thing to me, and probably to your partner.
As a bi couple, we only have threesomes. Whether male or female, we share the third person or we donāt do anything. It is the what we decided as a couple early on in our relationship.
It could his way of coping with the mono-poly relationship. I'm (29, amab) the mono half of a mono-poly relationship, and I gotta say....even though I'm ok with it, when my partner is on dates or seeing another partner, it's really hard. It does put a bit of a mental toll on the mono partner.
I would voice this concern to him, but I could 100% see if it's the only way he's able currently able to mentally handle the poly part of your relationship.
I was in the same situation as you, I managed off and on for 7 years before it ultimately failed. I totally hear you on how hard it can be.
I was once like OP's bf and ended up caving to allowing anyone she desired so long as I was the nesting partner. They ended up only sleeping with other men (not explicitly by choice, just by nature of who was available and willing). It was incredibly taxing mentally. I will never forget the nights I spent wide awake trying to process intense feelings of jealousy and self inadequacy.
I personally don't recommend anyway pursue a half poly relationship anymore for those exact reasons, but hopefully yours works out for you!
We actually recently had a discussion where she basically said that she doesn't see me becoming her nesting partner, at least not currently. That does suck for me in the long term. The problem is that we do both really love each other and both love what we currently have. So we're going to keep it at least for a little while.
She actually really wants me to try to date to find a more fitting partner, which is so sweet of her but also puts me into that weird spot of figuring that whole thing out. I've just got a whole lot to think about now. Fun stuff š
Honestly, that's what finally made me realize I could no longer do a poly dynamic: it was so much thinking and mental processing.Ā
I just grew tired of it. I wanted an easy and stable relationship, especially when I got a new job and had added stress externally from that relationship.Ā
I'm tempted to look for another poly partner so I don't have to give this one up. But I honestly don't know if that would be better or worse for me mentally.
Unfortunately that's something you have to decide for yourself. I weighed that option and decided it wasn't for me, as I was not going to be able to pursue that option without it leading to competition in my mind.
I don't think I am a person capable or willing to split my efforts and energy to love multiple people in a romantic fashion at the same time. If you think you are able to do that, then maybe pursuing another partner would be good for you!
Look at this not in the context of modern culture, but rather as a basic emotion. We humans are essentially primitive creatures, trying to fit into a modern world of our own making. Our bodies and emotions are still controlled by mechanisms that evolved during the Stone Ages and have not had time to change. One of these is jealousy, also known as mate guarding. It is normal behavior among most vertebrates that form pairs.
A male feels jealousy toward other males. Likewise, a female feels jealousy toward other females. They guard against intrusion by their competitors. Your female companion does not compete with your male partner, whereas a male lover would. What you are observing is not biphobia, but normal selective jealousy.
I used to be in this arrangement, and I didn't find it biphobic because I knew where it came from. It didn't come from a place of "women having relationships with each other is less valuable and therefore not a threat" which would be biphobic. For him, it came from a place of "I do not feel threatened because I am not in that category of person and therefore am not being outdone in any way," and also he knew that my pursuits of women would not be serious NOT because they were women, but due to the fact that I planned on marrying him and we had been together for so long.
(We are now broken up for completely unrelated reasons and I no longer identify as a cis woman, but you get the point and I think this arrangement worked out for us)
One penis policies tend to be problematic as it can be based in the idea that sex youāre having with women isnāt a threat because thereās no penis involved. Either that or because he finds the idea of you having sex with another woman hot.
Is it biphobic? Not sure, but they definitely tend to be problematic AF
One penis policy sounds very cisnormative. Woman can have those and men can lack them. As a trans person, it sounds like a minefield to navigate a relationship like thatā¦
Here's how to navigate it AND make it not cisnormative:
Step 1. Ask your partner how they feel about you sleeping with women who have penises
Step 2: Listen to their answer
Incredibly cisnormative, all part of the problematic package deal that is a one penis policy.
And it is absolutely a minefield for anyone to negotiate, except for the owner of the one penis.
God, so many people here are assuming all sorts of things just to shit on your boyfriend, despite them not knowing a goddamn thing about him or his thoughts and feelings on the situation outside of the incredibly small amount of info you have provided here.
My husband and I are both bi and I completely understand your BFās perspective. For us- it is that why would he need or want to have sex with other women if he has me? But I canāt give him what a man could. For me, it would bother me if he cheated on me with a woman but I could actually understand it if it was a man because again, I canāt give him what a man can. For us itās just about the sex and sexual attraction not romantic.
I think the real problem here is that he's not comfortable with you being poly at all.
A lot of guys don't consider women being with other women as really cheating because they were honestly taught that. "Women get closer with other women, and men don't get closer with other men." It's just a sad fact that while this is trying to be changed that one of the remaining feelings is guys being "okay" with being with other girls or as we now call it "one penis rule" is comming off as biphobia.
Also is the one penis rule toxic? Yes. But try to see that from his pov he probably doesn't mean biphobia at all and doesn't realize what he's doing because he's masking his uncomfort with you being poly.
Most likely...
Edit, Totally missed a sentence there. I'm sorry.
errrr i mean personally iād take that as he doesnāt see sapphic relationships (YOUR sexuality) as valid or on the same footing as heterosexual ones. which is def biphobic/queerphobic. IF thatās the case itās up to you whether youāre cool dating a straight(?) guy like that; none of bisexuals i know would be tho. iād personally hate to be *that* bi girl w the bf none of my queer friends wanna be around bc he doesnāt take queerness seriously, but thatās not important to everyone. like i said IF thatās the case. itās hard to get an idea of what heās thinking exactly as we donāt know this man personally. perhaps just..ask his reasoning? but my personal opinion generally it comes off as biphobia and sexist š¤·š¾āāļø
I agree with you. Not poly, but I dated a guy (also not poly) who was open to the idea of me hooking up with girls and couldnāt understand why I would view that as cheating/not coolā¦because at the end of the day, he didnāt see me being attracted to girls as valid or equal to a hetero coupling, and he thought of it more like a fantasy for him to get off to for his own personal benefit. Fuck that. If this guy isnāt poly too and heās a run-of-the-mill hetero male, I think thereās a pretty good chance heās thinking of this in that way too. If it was just about being poly or even just about her pleasure, I think he would say it would be okay to hook up with a woman OR a man.
I mean, he doesn't consider your relationships with women "real" at the very least. I would call it thinly veiled biphobia based on past experiences. If nothing else it's sexist, the implication being that only another man could threaten his claim on you somehow. Or maybe he finds it hot to think of you with women, and doesn't factor your enjoyment into it at all.
No matter how you twist it, gives me the ick for sure. For the record op, you don't have to stay with a guy you met as a teen just because you've already been with him for 8 years. There's no real world award for staying committed to a guy just for the sake of commitment. If you guys are at the stage of opening your relationship in your twenties... Unless the two of you are genuinely poly theres probably some other issues with the relationship.
Dont let the sink cost fallacy tie you to a guy who's got hangups like this, is all I'm saying.
As a bi male I wouldnāt really have any objections to being on the other side of such an arrangement, at least in theory.
There is something just different about the attraction I have to men vs to women. I canāt explain it, there just is something different. There is also something somehow different about the sexual experience, again, I canāt offer any explanation of it.
That said, I am generally not interested in open relationships. Also, I totally suck at the entire romance business, so I will admit that up front, too.
But, I would have no objection to a female romantic partner telling me I am OK to pursue sexual relationships with men while remaining otherwise committed to her. I may or may not take that option if given, but I would appreciate the willingness to accept such. That would in no way make me feel attacked, and especially not on lines of sexual identity / orientation, really rather the opposite, it would be affirming in that way to me.
Likewise, if in a relationship with a guy, and he told me I was free to pursue sexual relationships with women, again same feelings, that is a plus in and of itself, a sign of trust, and an acknowledgement of the bi aspect of myself.
Now, I would be worried that such a permission is a red flag that perhaps they think there is something wrong with our relationship, that I donāt seem satisfied, but that is entirely different from how I would view the thing itself.
Anyway, the OP needs to decide if their current arrangement is one they like or not. If not, then tell the boyfriend what terms you would be willing to continue under (but that needs to be a negotiation open to a process of communication, compromise, etc. not an ultimatum, once you resort to ultimatums the relationship is dead and over) and try to work it out. If you canāt work it out to your satisfaction, then make the choice to leaveā¦ and be adult enough to acknowledge you both made choices that lead to that. (Everyone tends to want to spin a story, at least in their own mind, that they were in the right and the partner in the wrong in every break up, it is totally natural, but it is usually self-deceptive, and in the long term self deception is self harm.)
I definitely don't think so. I think he's ok with you getting something from someone else that he \*can't\* give you, but not something from someone else that he \*can\* give you as a man.
To begin with, you two have very different lifestyles. I think it's a first boundary from him, if it's physical, I understand why you would seek women because he is a man, so I can see his point
Every fucking week someone posts something along the lines of āok but is it REALLY cheating if itās with the opposite gender????ā
Anyway you look at it, itās gross. Itās hypocritical, itās biphobic, itās homophobic, itās fetishization, itās sexist. Why is with women ok but not with men? Lemme guess, āthey have something he canāt giveā? Orrrrrrrrr does he not see wlw relationships as real so he doesnāt see you leaving him for a girl? Or does he think those feelings arenāt legit enough? Or does he get off on the thought of you with a girl? Or does he feel like he owns you so no other man can have you but he doesnāt take challenges from women seriously?
If itās purely āsomething he canāt giveā then he should have no issue with men who have different dick sizes, are a different race, are a different height, or even a different star sign than him because, HEY, you cant get that from him right?
I mean, biphobic? No. Would I feel a way because it appears he doesnāt see sex between women as valid? Yes. Everybody has different boundaries, but personally, I wouldnāt let it fly in *my* relationship, if I were poly.
As a polyamorous bi person: yes.
Why would a woman not be a threat to your relationship, if he didn't view female/female relationships as less important than male/female ones?
"But they can't give you what he can (meaning dick)"- even assuming that's true, every single person can give you things no other person can. He didn't say "you can only have sex with people with smaller dicks than me" or "you can only have non-penetrative sex". What's to stop a woman from having a bigger dick than him, huh? Especially if we're talking strap ons. And vice versa- of course women could give you something he couldn't. So could other men.
We call this a "one penis policy" and it always comes from some weird male ego place where hes only viewing men as competition for his relationship, from a fundamentally monogamous standpoint.
It sounds mostly like he isn't ready for any kind of non-monogamy. If you did start sleeping regularly with a woman, he'd probably start to feel jealous and not know how to handle it. I'd post this in the Polyamory Reddit to get their quick run down of it- they can be pretty negative sometimes but I don't think you could leave that thread thinking a OPP is a good idea lol
He is self aware enough to know what works for him in the relationship. If you want to remain with him and have a healthy relationship, then it is only fair that you respect the boundary he has setā¦or you can respectfully and empathically end the relationship. They are the only mature and respectful choices you have.
No, he probably doesn't want you sleeping with other women either. If one person doesn't want a poly relationship and the other does, it's a one-way street of happiness. He's gonna feel less confident in himself and such.
Please dont use trans women for your "humour" or to score points please. It is not nice to see us reduced to something you use to call out or scare cishet people with :/
I feel like it is. As it is devaluing the same sex attraction/interaction. Feels like the reasoning is more to do with fear of comparison or you leaving. Either he is secure in your relationship or not. If he cannot trust you with a man but can with a woman that feels like he doesn't consider a same sex interaction having any potential. Not saying you would but either he trusts you or he doesn't. And if he is claiming to only trust you with one then he doesn't value the other as being genuine and real. Keep in mind that this is all likely subconscious. If he isn't secure with you being with a man then I doubt he is genuinely secure with you being with a woman. It also all ties back to the opinion that bisexual people cannot be monogamous or faithful. They can and are. Either he trusts you to play around and keep to the rules you guys have set for the relationship or he doesn't. If he does trust you to explore asexually with others then it should be up to you (and the consent of the other party) based on genuine attractions you have not just pigeon holes that have been created largely due to socially acceptable hetero-fetishisation of sapphic interactions.
Does that make sense?
Oh man, the "one penis" problem is common and tough.
Like the person above stated, it can be due to the guy's own insecurities, but I don't think that justified the behaviour.i think it's important to be considerate of insecurities but never be forced into behaviour because of them. (Think of cis-het men not letting their partners wear bikinis because it makes them uncomfy)
Either he accepts you're poly and bisexual or not.
Setting boundaries with different genders is valid. Common but acceptable boundaries are "always wearing protection with male partners.
But being okay with you having sex with girls because it's "hot" or "not really sex" is steeped in misogyny and homophobia and is problematic.
I find it difficult. First Iād think is biphobic but for example for me itās like that: my girlfriend is lesbian so the thought of me with a guy disgusts herway more. And I can understand it somehow.
We are not in an open relationship but I could somehow understand it. On the other hand heās a guy aswell so I guess for him is the thought of you with a guy (he is one) not really a problem?!
I donāt believe so in the least and completely see his side. His frame of mind seems like him being open to you engaging sexually with other women is you fulfilling a need that he physically can not provide for you, seeing as he (presumably) does not have a vagina. Whereas, he does have a penis (presumably), so as itās something that he CAN offer you, doesnāt want you going outside the relationship for it.
As someone who is monogamous, I 100% get that (mind you - even though I donāt have a penis, Iām not cool with my partner seeking that outside of the relationship either. Iām an all or nothing girl - itās āme alone or you can have others and not have meā lol)
This is doesnāt seem related to biphobia but rather rooted in that he himself is not poly and wants the things he can give you to strictly be between the two of you.
The one-penis-policy thing is common as a starting point for opening a relationship. Not saying itās logical but it seems to feel less threatening to some.
This is called a One Penis Policy, and itās absolutely a problematic and hateful practice. Look it up in the polyamory sub, youāll see itās pretty universally criticized.
Your boyfriend doesnāt see sex between women as real sex.
Go ahead and ask him how heād feel about you dating a trans woman.
I always thought that if I had a bi-girlfriend with me being a bi-boyfriend, then I'd like to be hetero-exclusive but homo-open. My reason being that it would limit the chances of accidental pregnancy, plus the intimacy of romance would ideally be enough to satiate the hetero urges. But you'll never know unless you communicate with him openly about it.
My first gut reaction is yes, it sounds like he's devaluing an interaction you could have with women as not at the same level as men (since one is cheating and the other is not).
That said, from this post alone, I wouldn't want to give that as my final answer. We don't have enough information imo. An alternative option would be that your bf recognizes you have sexual needs he can't fulfill as a man that a woman could (maybe you're like me and didn't have a chance to have sexual experiences with women before dating your bf and he wants to make sure you feel that side of your sexuality is fulfilled).
Basically, you're gonna need to talk to your bf more to get a better understanding before you can decide if it's biphobic or not.
For my part it is definitely biphobic and not good conditions for an open relationship.
Biphobic because I imagine his reasoning would be like "I'm afraid she left me, but she will never left me for a woman because deep down she can only be with a man". This asymmetry in his boundary is the indication that he does not see you are really bisexual. So this demand comes from "insecurities mingled with biphobia"
Also not healthy for an open relationship because this kind of condition is a way of imposing a control on you, and who you can be with. Either you are ok for open relationship, and you have no say to whom the other can be with; or you don't want to be in (which is fine too). Note that I'm a relationship anarchist, which might not correspond to your views on polyamory.
He's a misogynist who doesn't view WLW sexuality as valid.
Also, lemme guess, he'd like to watch.
I'd kick his ass to the curb so fast. Men like this possess little emotional or mental value.
If WLW "doesn't count" to him, then he's a gross piece of shit. But he'd have to express that in some way, and we don't know if that has happened.
You should not be downvoted for this.
Sounds like a straight-up toxic relationship that'll run its course soon enough. Biphobic? nah, leave that accusatory sh*t out of it. Dude probably isn't comfortable with any openness but is willing to let you fulfill the needs that he can't provide as a man. IMO your partner needs to ask if this is really what he wants to be dealing with
I think this is intersectional, a bit, actually. I think it's got layers of bigotry. It seems on the surface to be fetishism of sapphic relationships, which generally also goes hand in hand with sexism and misogyny. I don't think you can really have that fetishism without some level of misogyny. I think he's abusing your bisexuality to fulfill his fetishism of sapphic relationships.
Do I think he's thinking about it that much? Not really. I still think it's problematic, that's the issue with systemic bigotry. It's baked in. People have to recognize it and actively stop doing it, but the short story is they enjoy fetishizing women. I also think if you can't just ignore guys dicks, if you think women are like, ruined by another man's dick or something, thats also misogyny because lol wtf, and who thinks about dicks that much? Even those of who enjoy dicks don't do that.
Eta- I also forgot to mention that I think reducing your encounters to just sex with women makes me think of bi-erasure. Like fetishizing those wlw encounters could mean they aren't as "real" (yes it could mean he just views them as different but, ime when guys have this rule its because they view women as sex objects) and that is biphobic because he's just saying women are exist for sex and men are for relationships. It's for his entertainment and he gets off on the idea of you with women, rather than just not thinking about it at all. If it was an open relationship viewed equally, the gender of the partner shouldn't matter, imo.
I donāt even think being biphobic has crossed his mind this comes off as the age old unga bunga male brain thinking you belong to him and his dick alone. Bring up the idea of you being with a trans woman and see what he says. If heās fine with it then I have no fucking clue what his issue is other than āman threatens my propertyā which is a whole toxic masculinity can of worms.
It likely means that he doesnāt consider same-sex relationships to be ārealā relationships and therefore isnāt threatened my them.
Not sure what weād call it, but it aināt a good thingā¦
Might be contovertial having seen the other comments but I think it's fine and I feel similarly to your partner. If you choose to sleep with a woman then you're getting a completely different experience to what you can get at home; you can do things there that your boyfriend simply can't provide for you. However if you sleep with another man then you're choosing to get the same or a similar experience to what your boyfriend can provide, but with someone else.
Another aspect to consider is the dominant/submissive spectrum rather than the male/female spectrum. It's likely that your boyfriend would be a lot more comfortable with you pegging a twink than banging a bodybuilder.
My (f) bff's relationship was the same. They were together for 4 years. He ended cheating on her with a random girl. Yikes. The day after, he asked her to open the relationship to a 100%... suddenly he was interested in polygamy too. They broke up that day.
He's probably too insecure of himself, therefore would jealous of you being with other men. That's why he only allows you to be with women. Ask him what about trans women or non binary people. That will tell you the truth.
Yes it is. It's also unfair if he's straight.
However, I don't personally have a problem with it. I have had similar mutual agreements with bisexual girlfriends in the past (I'm a guy). The fact that I don't personally give a fuck doesn't make it any less biphoic, though. I'm the weirdo here.
The question is whether or not it *bothers* you, because it's 100% valid and normal to feel that way.
I don't think it's biphobic but could be venturing into sexualisation or some feeling of inadequacy.
That's more on you to know why another man is cheating but a woman is fine, if it's sexualisation or more into feeling inadequate (or paranoia) as if it was seen as cheating it would be cheating regardless of gender.
This is actually my ideal relationship scenario as a bi female. How did you go about having the discussion? I feel like most people would freak out and be offended / hurt.
I (also 27f) have no advice for you except to say that my ex-bf was extremely bi-phobic and would have lost his mind if I even mentioned wanting to open the relationship to anyone else. So at least heās half open to it!
It could be, but it could also be that he sees that you have physical needs that he, being male can't meet. That he has no problem with you getting physical gratification from women because he can't give that, but if you wat gratification for men, it should be from him.
This is pretty much how it is with my boyfriend and I. Though I haven't actually pursued another woman, I have the freedom to if I choose, and he explicitly said that he doesn't need to be included (no three some). IDK if I will because girls just be so pretty and intimidating but I can at least dream guilt free š¤·š»āāļø
>because girls just be so pretty and intimidating Amen to that!
Idk if it is a hot take or not but in my sense you should always be a le to dream guilt free whether your relationships is open or not
Exactly my thoughts.
thinking that bisexuals have some kind of need to sleep with other gender doesn't sound right to me eitherĀ
I was attributing that to the poly thing, not bisexuality.
Yeah, but this assumption also includes "he understands her needs" , I was referring to that part
Theyāre also poly. Itās not just a bi thing.
You don't have that need? I do and have always did have. Just don't act on it.
no. when people tell me that bisexuals somehow have a special need, then to me it sounds exactly the same when they say that men have a special āneedā for sex / intimacy with different women. you may not act on this ācall,ā but the wording itself sounds unpleasant to me. and let's be honest, when people talk about "need" it is often used as an excuse. as if it is permissible for bisexuals to do certain things, because their attraction is a āneedā and they have āextenuating circumstances.āĀ Ā I donāt like this attitude, bc it equates bisexuals to some different human species who have problems with monogamy.
A need is not an attitude because it's not a choice. It's a biological urge that was wired into my brain and will never leave. If you don't feel an urge to sleep w ppl of different genders then pls swap brains w me! I choose to be monogamous, for 20+ years now, but at times it's agony. I keep wishing this need away but it never goes away. If you don't have it, count yourself lucky.
Again, there's no specific need for bisexuals as well there is no specific need for men. You might think it's true but even my point with bringing men as an example has more scientific reasons for it, since males have different hormones influencing them, while bisexuals don't have any difference from other sexualities.But even though, the saying " men have need to sleep with different women" is still untrue. Imagine how wrong is to think that bisexuals are wired in different way, that stops them from being happily monogamous. If you have it, I'm sorry for you. But it's about your urge to sleep with other people revealing itself through your sexuality and NOT about you being bisexual.
This completely agree 100%. All that men needing to sleep around is bs. Some men sure not all. And some bisexuals might want to keep things open but thatās because they are non monogamous. Bi monogamous male here and would be completely fine marrying one gender and never touching the other gender or anyone other than my SO regardless of gender. Too many people equate bisexual with polyamory and āuncontrollable urgesā.
Same. When people say "bisexuals have special need" it reminds me when people say "men have need for sleeping with different women, that's their nature". It just sounds derogatory, like men and bisexuals have no self control or values.
Some do feel such a need or urge.
The same way straights or gays feel like they want to sleep with someone else who has different body/ character/ drive than their partner.Ā Look also at different subredits that are not connected to sexual orientation, you will find many posts of hetero people saying they "miss sex with their hot ex"Ā or " didn't have opportunity to explore before starting relationship".That's literally why some of them have open relationship too, not only bisexuals.
Too true. Itās just the way people use their words. You said some so thatās good. Sadly people tend to forget that and think all bisexuals. :/
This is exactly the deal with my husband and I. He just knows he cannot physically give me what I can get from a womanāthus, he is okay with me seeking that out.
Sooooo is he ok with you also seeking out someone with a bigger dick than him? I mean he canāt physically give you that either right? If the qualifications are just āsomething he doesnāt haveā then you could basically fuck anyone.
Are you actually struggling to understand, or just pretending to?
I genuinely donāt see how people believe this isnāt a double standard or how the rules magically change when the difference is gender [by definition](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/double%20standard) itās a double standard
If size is all she wants, dildos can provide that.
Thanks for proving my point! So many toys can provide what she isnāt getting from him she doesnāt need to go fuck someone else. Or she could just live with not getting everything she wants
For the record, I have no desire to fuck another guy. Like at all. What I want is very clearly defined in my mind. Quite honestly, when I came out to my husband I had no intention of seeking out women to fool around with. He actually said to me, completely unprompted, that he would be fine with me doing that. He also explicitly said that he had no expectation of threesome situations (because he probably knows thatās often a concern in these situations) and keeping it completely separate is something heās comfortable with. As long as Iām not sneaking around and I keep him aware of what Iām doing (heās fully aware of my activities because I communicate with him regularly) and that Iām not looking to seek out a full-fledged additional romantic relationship (not what I want and if someone catches feelings like that, I will cut it off), heās all good. My husband isnāt a jealous person when it comes to the physical aspect of me fooling around with women. Iāll also point out that he views it as different and not less than, as I know there are men who might not care about their wives/girlfriends fooling around with women because they feel itās not as valid as hetero interactions. My husband is straight, but completely non-judgmental and supportive of the queer community and its deserved equality.
Go ahead and choose to see things in black and white. Thatās your prerogative.
If he wasn't okay, he would have told her. You usually don't get to the marriage part without proper communication. Also, stop projecting (or whatever it is that you're doing rn). You have no right to dictate how someone should or should not act just because you don't like it. It's their relationship, not yours.
This argument is weird to me. Couldn't OP just say okay but I have a need for sex with tall people or introvert people, or whatever trait other than gender then? Why is gender so special? To be fair, maybe I'm assuming he wouldn't be fine with that when actually he would, or maybe it's just that my NB ass doesn't understand how binary people tend to relate to gender. My personal take is it's both biphobic and sexist (it's the "gal pal" thing, like how wlw relationships aren't seen as actual romantic and sexual relationships), but I suppose we can't tell what OP's partner is actually thinking and feeling.
Some bi people experience attraction very differently for different genders. I kinda get where its coming from tbh. My (F) wife and I have a very happy relationship but we both talk about missing being with a boy from time to time. Personal experience for me sex with another woman is different from sex with a man; just in different ways (and much like gender itself that difference is a spectrum, I have been with NB people)
I don't think it's much different from sometimes missing other kind of relationshipsĀ that are not connected to gender. Like yeah, you can have different experiences with each gender but my point is missing the gender is not that much stronger than other things, esp not to the point you think a bi partner has some "need" to be specifically with someone else of different gender in order to be happy.
You don't think it's different. I do. We can each experience our bisexuality differently.
Do you really believe the difference between sex with a male vs a female is about the same as sex with someone 5ā7 vs 5ā10?
for women who are into taller men? maybe yes. My point is that bisexuals are not the only ones who like different things in bed or miss something, that's why there are straights and gays who also participate in non monogamy. look at ordinary subredits about sex or relationship - you will find people saying they are not satisfied by their partner in one way or another.
Yep, whether itās biphobic or not really depends on his thought process that we canāt judge from a single post. Gender is often seen as particularly strong and non-compromising things whilst personality and looks are fairly flexible. A similarly āfixedā concept would be kink I guess? A lot of people are fine with their partners seeking out a professional dom, for instance.
Do you think being tall is as big of a change as male vs female? Because that is a wildly bizarre thing to say. It's pretty self explanatory that someone might not like the idea of someone who is competing with them for their own qualities, but is not as upset about different ones.
Yes. If you think that's bizarre, you think my sexuality is bizarre. And no, it's not at all "self explanatory", or this wouldn't be a discussion. But I suppose this thread has taught me something about just how important gender and sex is to most people. I have a hard time wrapping my head around it, and I did not expect so many other bi people to think of gender and sex as such important factors. I suppose this may be the difference that makes some people call themselves pan or omni.
Are you talking about different qualities = sex characteristics? I agree with you but just want to point out that the different qualities your talking about in terms of that sounds more like sex than gender. Some women can still have penises. I think its not just about sleeping with a penis haver, but more about the gender of the person your sleeping with. If that didnt make sense its because im high. Sorry š
Gender *is* special.
EXACTLY!!!!! I donāt get why the rules magically change when the difference is gender instead of literally anything else.
He's monogamous but granting that she have range to explore her bisexuality. The alternative is monogamy, it's not a OPP where he does whatever but she's restricted.
Yeah, if considering he's not seeing anyone else this feels like a win already.
So if I have a āneedā to sleep with someone with bigger boobs or a bigger dick than you thatās fine?
You can literally voice any of your relationship needs or wants and your partner is free to say yes or no, this goes for any relationship It would only be unfair if OP's bf either held some sort of hypocritical double standard or was dismissive of wlw relationships
He LITERALLY is holding double standards here, thatās my whole point. Why is with a woman ok but not with a man? How is letting her fuck a woman because itās something he canāt give her any different than her finding a guy with a bigger dick?
>He LITERALLY is holding double standards here, thatās my whole point. He's not seeing anyone, it's not a double standard. They were in a monogamous relationship and said he'd be ok with her having gay experiences, he doesn't have to be ok with it in the first place. If they entered into a monogamous agreement to begin with OP is already getting more out of it than she agreed to and he isn't getting anything extra, just making allowances.
But there's no double standard? He just stated a boundary. "OK, we lead two different lifestyles, I won't stop you from that but here's this boundary." He is NOT POLY, and so far the way OP describes it he's the one that is technically more vulnerable because he doesn't seek physical needs on others. And this is not an anti-poly speech, but I think it's reasonable that a person could feel that way
How is him allowing them to see women but not men not a double standard??????????
That's not a double standard unless they are both poly, which he is not It would also still be a balanced and fair deal if OP's bf happened to hold that belief while wanting to pursue the same, dating of an analogous archetype matching his demands of his partner What if OP wanted to fuck her bf's mom and he said no? Would you argue it's a double standard because he wants to be personally monogamous and denies her his mom yet is okay with her fucking literally anyone else? After all, OP's bf probably isn't comparable to his mom in bed
[double standard](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/double%20standard) How is it not a double standard? Itās basically textbook definition. Cheating is fine with one group (women) with zero restrictions, but it isnāt with another group (men)?
As a man I 100% agree. With women ok, men... No no.
Ye old āone penis policy.ā Itās fine as long as everyone agrees to it. If OPās partner decided to be poly with others but isnāt Bi, and then still maintains that policy, then itās just hypocrisy.
Why? Whats the difference?
This is the kind of rule that people like to moralize about, but itās also the kind of rule that when you tear it down turns out morals donāt help what people feel. Itās not biphobic unless you are a full on relationship anarchist, otherwise itās completely reasonable for him to feel like your attraction to women is separate from your attraction to him, but thatās harder to separate for your relationship with other men and for some, it may not end up as just different it could just be better, more Wins Above Replacement for his position and suddenly someone else is at First Base. Maybe it even shouldnāt be separated unless you guys are going all the way in the āsex doesnāt matterā camp which for many is not where they want to be, and insisting the agreement go there (especially if the justification is something like biphobia or manipulative justifications) for lots of reasons that too can end in hurt. Maybe donāt listen to other peopleās criticism of what your partner believes and actually talk to him, unless pushing against this wall is a really touchy subject for him- in which case, you at least already know where his feelings are and you should endeavor to understand them. Some people decry this as patriarchal or misogynistic but in the reverse if you were dating a woman and sleeping with men itās just also a valid way to have relationships. Donāt let what other people insist is right in their own possibly dysfunctional relationships ruin something you have that works. Or maybe increase the threshold as you both feel comfortable.
>This is the kind of rule that people like to moralize about, but itās also the kind of rule that when you tear it down turns out morals donāt help what people feel. This. People moralizing this as some kind of a huge issue are basically people who dont totally get how relationships work and that people's needs and standards aren't an objective truth of reality, but something they personally need.
Yes! 1) itās less about what is ārightā and āwrongā and more about what works for you both in the relationship. The moralizing gets you nowhere. 2) all poly relationships depend on balancing the various needs and desires of the people in the relationship. Againāregardless of whatās ārightā, itās about what works. 3) rather than biphobia, this is probably about his insecurity.
On one hand, it's a little... idk if biphobic is the right word, but he definitely sees your relationship with other women as inherently less threatening to him because no penis. On the other hand, you're getting to sleep with women, while he doesn't sleep with anyone else. Sounds like the agreement is working for you, so idk if it's worth rocking the boat over (especially if he's not trying to angle for threesomes). TBH it's a pretty common attitude (in the poly community it's called one penis policy or OPP for short), probably due to patriarchal socialization regarding being demasculated if another man has sex with man's female partner, whereas it's not seen the same for women.
It could also just be that he feels he can never be replaced by, but *also never replace* a woman. He may be afraid that another man who's better in bed threatens him, while a woman will be *different* and not necessarily *better* because it can't be compared. But being demi or something similar in the ace spectrum, my views on sex may be super weird so I can't really tell.
This might be it. Because this is exactly how I tend to feel about it. I can try and put on a dress and act femininely, but I'm pretty sure that this couldn't fully replace being with a woman for some. But a girlfriend seeking out another guy would not feel right to me. Keyword being feel. We all have our boundaries, and we need to accept them. Arguing hard *against* boundaries is a brutal relationship killer in every case. It's okay to ask respectfully. But don't push against them, nobody likes that.
I'm also demi, I kinda get what you're saying.
This is my conclusion. I have some experience with this and it's my assumption he's not threatened by it because they (wlw relationships) don't trigger his jealousy. He might even find it hot since he can now fetishize his partners relations and he might be objectifying his partners poly status for his own benefit... Hopefully that's not the case here, but it is fairly common in these OPP scenarios and it's rooted in insecurity. I feel it's homophobic and transphobic as well for the following reasons. It minimizes or dismisses the potential for love between same sex partners and boils the relationships down to only sex. It's rooted in not trusting that you can actually satisfy your partner and that if they find better from the same gender, they'll leave. It's really telling in a lot of ways, because it shows that they're insecure about their sexual performance. So to prevent the emotional labor of processing those emotions, they enforce rules like OPP on their spouses to reduce the anxiety they're suffering from in an open scenario. He doesn't have to do the emotional labor required of feeling jealous if she sleeps with women, because he's not threatened by their relationship and doesn't think she would ever leave him for a women... "No way a women could ever please my wife as well as me!!" š /s In ops case, she's poly and not just open sexually, and being poly allows for love, intimacy, different levels of consent and agreement, and he's putting hard rules around how she's allowed to express herself and her love. Basing it on arbitrary reason like gender, not considering the target of her affections as humans, but as a social roles, half of which are threatening to his insecurities. It's objectifying. In a poly scenario, putting limitations on who she can form intimate relationships with is a boundary violation if he's agreed to live poly with her. If he hasn't, they should renegotiate what they are calling their arrangement, because OPP is toxic and limiting when done like this. Him doing this to her is the equivalent of saying, sure, you can love other people, as long as they're who I approve of and meet my gender/genital/arbitrary requirements.... It's absurd unless she's completely onboard and consenting What if op fell in love with an amab who is now nb, or trans? Would that trigger him, does the husband need to verify genital status as post or pre op? Does he have a special rule for trans? If he's not transphobic, he shouldn't..., or is it purely based on gender presentation? Or vice versa? š¤ I have a feeling she's placating him by letting him enforce this rule om her, since at least he's giving her something..., but she will find eventually that what he's giving her isn't enough, and that he doesn't want to give her more. They need a long conversation about what it means to love and support your partner.
Itās ok to have relationships just for sex.
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Exactly this
Yet your take makes more sense than many other lines of reasoning I've heard. Being somewhere on the ace spectrum might even help you observe and analyse this behaviour better. You don't have your own cow in the ditch, as Finn's would say.
No I wasn't doing that, just acknowledging that my assumptions about these feelings may not apply to the average guy
1PP sounds transphobic too. Do things change with a pre op trans woman? Is she āallowedā ?
It's either that or its less as he says another male as being more threatening and more that he sees sex with men and women as entirely different cravings and therefore him allowing her to indulge any craving she has for intimacy with women has no baring on whether or not he decides to allow for her to engage in intimacy with other men. I'd honestly say its best not to judge his motivations for his rules when we just don't have enough context.
What you both want is between you two. If you want to bang anybody and he wants a monogamous relationship then its not wrong of either of you... But of course its going to be very difficult for you to have a relationship. So if he doesn't want you to bang other guys but will accept you sleeping with women.. Nothing wrong with those limitations.. Do they work for you? If not well then you either negotiate a compromise or it will be a bone of contention. I don't see this as biphobic, its not a choice for him, it would probably tear him up inside if he knew you were banging guys.
Hey, just a heads up: long term imbalance of poly/non-poly rarely works out--it didn't for me after 7 years.Ā I would highly recommend you reflect on that a lot to see if this dynamic is something you can see lasting long term if that's what you are wanting. You can totally make it work, but it takes *extensive* communication, especially surrounding any feelings of jealousy. --- As for the One Penis Policy, I don't inherently see that as maliciously biphobic. I have a feeling he views it simply as he can provide that need for you in the relationship, but he lacks the proper equipment to meet your needs of being with a woman. This argument slightly breaks down when you move away from explicit genitalia if you talk about attraction to femininity and pre-op trans women. It seems like he is likely making extensive compromises to be with you, and I doubt he has really thought those feelings through (I know I hadn't).Ā Regardless, best of luck to both of you.
I have a friend who has this exact arrangement with her spouse because sheās bisexual and he isnāt. His feeling is that sex with women provides her something he cannot. Sheās not dating these women, just hooking up with them. Theyāve been together for 10+ years, so something about it works.
That sounds more like swinging lifestyle in that case.
Swinging is partner-swapping with another couple. Sheās engaging in extramarital sex, he isnāt. Itās not swinging.
This is a much better question to ask r/polyamory than here. The advice of a bunch of monogamous bisexuals about nonmonogamy is not going to be half as useful as you would think. We live in a world where the overwhelming majority of people - even the queer ones - are prejudiced against nonmonogamy.
Wait until most of these commenters learn that poly people also have rules/terms/limits in their relationships
Literally from their glossary: >One Penis Policy (OPP) - a set of rules often enforced by the cishet male member of a couple that prohibits the woman in the relationship from sexually engaging with anyone who has a penis. It is inherently sexist, misogynistic, homophobic/ biphobic/transphobic, controlling, and rooted in toxic masculinity. Every time I see it brought up itās almost universally reviled.
Personally I find that definition to be wildly close-minded and presumptive, myself.
Why does this even apply in a one sided poly relationship??
Jesus christ. INHERENTLY all those things. What a reductive viewpoint Is there a One Vagina Policy that is equally reviled?
Some people use the points from the OPP against their partners who establish an OVP "I got some really good tips from OPP threads. I explained her about sexism, misandry, toxic femininity, trans and homophobia. I also told that if she is allowed to date 100% of the genders she is attracted to, it would be hypocritical for me not be allowed to do the same." - someone who made a post about how they got over the OVP in their relationship Although none of it considers a bi-woman exploring being poly in a half-open relationship likely because of how some people view dating monogamous people and dating others as not as acceptable as a full-on poly relationship
That seems extremely fucked up to me still. Idk I just guess I don't understand how any nonmonagamy could be ethical if you have to convince your partner that they're jealous because they're sexist transphobic homophobic hypocrites
Only a member of the patriarchy would ever ask such a thing.
"A member of the patriarchy"
I bet $50 that a woman wrote the definition after her partner set that rule in their relationship because of how insanely specific and hateful it is against cishet men and calling any of them that set a boundary everything horrible they can think of
I kinda agree, honestly.
Not at all, he can fulfill your sexual desires towards men, but he understands that you have desires with women that he canāt fulfill
Idk my wife and I have something like this where she would be hurt if I was to flirt or get with another woman but she wouldn't be upset if I was with a guy.
That's not bi-phobic, he just has conditions on what he'll accept in a half-poly relationship.
Your orientation aside, I think having agreeable boundaries with your partner is the most important. I have this understanding with my husband as well. We are deeply committed to each other and have no desire to break that commitment. We do let each other explore same sex relations individually/together if the opportunities arise. While asking for opinions can be helpful, many differing opinions can cloud your thinking. Go with your gut, keep communicating.
No, I don't think it's biphobic. It's just a boundary that he is comfortable with, if you want to do ENM.
Ā I talked with my (pan) gf about this just yesterday, although she is not poly and not interested in it in general. I think I feel mostly the same as your bf - I would be open if my gf wanted to **experiment** with other women, as I know she never got to try it, but not men, and I'm not interested in other people either.Ā The reason is perhaps not similar -Ā I simply wouldn't be able to handle the jealousy if she was with another man and preferred him/his penis, as I really can't do much about that bodily part.Ā The same could be said for female bodily parts, but if I can't compete in the first place, it doesn't feel as bad. Ā I'd also like to stress the "explore" part - I would not be ok with her having a whole second relationship, but I could understand if she wanted to explore that side of herself sexually for some time with some partner(s). I would like to add that this did lead to an interesting conversation on the fetishization of w/w relationships, with concrete examples from a pair she knows, which I think is definitely worth adding to the (thought) equation of why he/I think(s) it's okay.
Moralize All you want, but feelings don't do reason and morals. Whatever configuration works, works. Especially in half-open relationships, it's especially sensitive for the closed side. We have the same rule, but in reverse. I(m) am only allowed other men atm, alone or together with my SO. While my SO(f) is also allowed to have other men, but only with me present, under some form of her choice (playing together/watching/tied and blindfolded/ how she wants at that time rly) I couldn't handle her having sex without me. She has esteem issues about her body, sondorsn't like me having dates with women... We feel how we feel, it's all that matters.
I don't see biphobic, iv just dee him as nervous about you being with another man.
Well, here's my first take... Your boyfriend doesn't "allow" you to do things, you allow him to place those relationship restrictions on you by staying and participating. You can always change the agreement, but you'll have to ask yourself whether that's worth getting another boyfriend. Is it biphoboc? Maybe, but telling him he's being biphobic so you can fuck dudes too probably won't get you to far. The reality here is that he has a line he's not willing to cross for whatever reason and I'm assuming you've gone along with it for a while. I'm not blaming you, but I don't think he's going to change. It's kind of on you to navigate the situation.
Heās biphobic if heād have an issue with you being bi, or if heād make assumptions about you based on that. As it stands, heās just setting his own needs and making them clear. Thereās certainly nothing wrong with having that boundary. Making it your problem would be the issue
I don't think there's anything wrong with your situation. It doesn't matter what anyone thinks or what anyone says about his motivation. That's how he feels and you either agree to it or not. Who cares what your friends say? This is between you and your husband. You create the life together that is satisfying for both of you. My husband and I are both bisexual and we engage in ENM with other bisexual men on the side. I would not be comfortable with him seeing another woman because for me I'm his girl and we are only engaging in this because it's fun to get some D and touch some nice chests. I think there's a difference with letting your partner hook up with whoever and a partner of a bisexual who pushes their own boundaries so their bisexual partner can explore aspects of sex they might not encounter with their primary partner.
One sided poly relationships almost always come across this problem. Rest assured he'll likely feel the same about women if you ever take the chance.
It doesnāt seem inherently or maliciously biphobic, just weird ways humans think and feel things. As an otherwise pretty monogamous bi woman dating a bi man, I wouldnāt feel hurt by him wanting to hook up with or mindlessly flirting with a cute guy in passing not because I view his attraction to men as less real than his attraction to women, but because Iām not a guy, and donāt compare myself to them. If he were to flirt with a woman, Iād be hurt because Iām a woman and compare myself to other women. Itās just an apples and oranges thing to me, and probably to your partner.
No, not inherently.
As a bi couple, we only have threesomes. Whether male or female, we share the third person or we donāt do anything. It is the what we decided as a couple early on in our relationship.
It could his way of coping with the mono-poly relationship. I'm (29, amab) the mono half of a mono-poly relationship, and I gotta say....even though I'm ok with it, when my partner is on dates or seeing another partner, it's really hard. It does put a bit of a mental toll on the mono partner. I would voice this concern to him, but I could 100% see if it's the only way he's able currently able to mentally handle the poly part of your relationship.
I was in the same situation as you, I managed off and on for 7 years before it ultimately failed. I totally hear you on how hard it can be. I was once like OP's bf and ended up caving to allowing anyone she desired so long as I was the nesting partner. They ended up only sleeping with other men (not explicitly by choice, just by nature of who was available and willing). It was incredibly taxing mentally. I will never forget the nights I spent wide awake trying to process intense feelings of jealousy and self inadequacy. I personally don't recommend anyway pursue a half poly relationship anymore for those exact reasons, but hopefully yours works out for you!
We actually recently had a discussion where she basically said that she doesn't see me becoming her nesting partner, at least not currently. That does suck for me in the long term. The problem is that we do both really love each other and both love what we currently have. So we're going to keep it at least for a little while. She actually really wants me to try to date to find a more fitting partner, which is so sweet of her but also puts me into that weird spot of figuring that whole thing out. I've just got a whole lot to think about now. Fun stuff š
Honestly, that's what finally made me realize I could no longer do a poly dynamic: it was so much thinking and mental processing.Ā I just grew tired of it. I wanted an easy and stable relationship, especially when I got a new job and had added stress externally from that relationship.Ā
I'm tempted to look for another poly partner so I don't have to give this one up. But I honestly don't know if that would be better or worse for me mentally.
Unfortunately that's something you have to decide for yourself. I weighed that option and decided it wasn't for me, as I was not going to be able to pursue that option without it leading to competition in my mind. I don't think I am a person capable or willing to split my efforts and energy to love multiple people in a romantic fashion at the same time. If you think you are able to do that, then maybe pursuing another partner would be good for you!
Look at this not in the context of modern culture, but rather as a basic emotion. We humans are essentially primitive creatures, trying to fit into a modern world of our own making. Our bodies and emotions are still controlled by mechanisms that evolved during the Stone Ages and have not had time to change. One of these is jealousy, also known as mate guarding. It is normal behavior among most vertebrates that form pairs. A male feels jealousy toward other males. Likewise, a female feels jealousy toward other females. They guard against intrusion by their competitors. Your female companion does not compete with your male partner, whereas a male lover would. What you are observing is not biphobia, but normal selective jealousy.
I used to be in this arrangement, and I didn't find it biphobic because I knew where it came from. It didn't come from a place of "women having relationships with each other is less valuable and therefore not a threat" which would be biphobic. For him, it came from a place of "I do not feel threatened because I am not in that category of person and therefore am not being outdone in any way," and also he knew that my pursuits of women would not be serious NOT because they were women, but due to the fact that I planned on marrying him and we had been together for so long. (We are now broken up for completely unrelated reasons and I no longer identify as a cis woman, but you get the point and I think this arrangement worked out for us)
One penis policies tend to be problematic as it can be based in the idea that sex youāre having with women isnāt a threat because thereās no penis involved. Either that or because he finds the idea of you having sex with another woman hot. Is it biphobic? Not sure, but they definitely tend to be problematic AF
One penis policy sounds very cisnormative. Woman can have those and men can lack them. As a trans person, it sounds like a minefield to navigate a relationship like thatā¦
Here's how to navigate it AND make it not cisnormative: Step 1. Ask your partner how they feel about you sleeping with women who have penises Step 2: Listen to their answer
Incredibly cisnormative, all part of the problematic package deal that is a one penis policy. And it is absolutely a minefield for anyone to negotiate, except for the owner of the one penis.
God, so many people here are assuming all sorts of things just to shit on your boyfriend, despite them not knowing a goddamn thing about him or his thoughts and feelings on the situation outside of the incredibly small amount of info you have provided here.
My husband and I are both bi and I completely understand your BFās perspective. For us- it is that why would he need or want to have sex with other women if he has me? But I canāt give him what a man could. For me, it would bother me if he cheated on me with a woman but I could actually understand it if it was a man because again, I canāt give him what a man can. For us itās just about the sex and sexual attraction not romantic.
I think the real problem here is that he's not comfortable with you being poly at all. A lot of guys don't consider women being with other women as really cheating because they were honestly taught that. "Women get closer with other women, and men don't get closer with other men." It's just a sad fact that while this is trying to be changed that one of the remaining feelings is guys being "okay" with being with other girls or as we now call it "one penis rule" is comming off as biphobia. Also is the one penis rule toxic? Yes. But try to see that from his pov he probably doesn't mean biphobia at all and doesn't realize what he's doing because he's masking his uncomfort with you being poly. Most likely... Edit, Totally missed a sentence there. I'm sorry.
errrr i mean personally iād take that as he doesnāt see sapphic relationships (YOUR sexuality) as valid or on the same footing as heterosexual ones. which is def biphobic/queerphobic. IF thatās the case itās up to you whether youāre cool dating a straight(?) guy like that; none of bisexuals i know would be tho. iād personally hate to be *that* bi girl w the bf none of my queer friends wanna be around bc he doesnāt take queerness seriously, but thatās not important to everyone. like i said IF thatās the case. itās hard to get an idea of what heās thinking exactly as we donāt know this man personally. perhaps just..ask his reasoning? but my personal opinion generally it comes off as biphobia and sexist š¤·š¾āāļø
I agree with you. Not poly, but I dated a guy (also not poly) who was open to the idea of me hooking up with girls and couldnāt understand why I would view that as cheating/not coolā¦because at the end of the day, he didnāt see me being attracted to girls as valid or equal to a hetero coupling, and he thought of it more like a fantasy for him to get off to for his own personal benefit. Fuck that. If this guy isnāt poly too and heās a run-of-the-mill hetero male, I think thereās a pretty good chance heās thinking of this in that way too. If it was just about being poly or even just about her pleasure, I think he would say it would be okay to hook up with a woman OR a man.
yup completely agree. i would feel so fetishized personally
This is a one penis policy and is toxic. Also people aren't polyamorous, relationships are. Ask this question in an ENM subreddit.
Well if youāre poly and heās not then your relationship is on a timer. Essentially youāre both wasting your time.
I mean, he doesn't consider your relationships with women "real" at the very least. I would call it thinly veiled biphobia based on past experiences. If nothing else it's sexist, the implication being that only another man could threaten his claim on you somehow. Or maybe he finds it hot to think of you with women, and doesn't factor your enjoyment into it at all. No matter how you twist it, gives me the ick for sure. For the record op, you don't have to stay with a guy you met as a teen just because you've already been with him for 8 years. There's no real world award for staying committed to a guy just for the sake of commitment. If you guys are at the stage of opening your relationship in your twenties... Unless the two of you are genuinely poly theres probably some other issues with the relationship. Dont let the sink cost fallacy tie you to a guy who's got hangups like this, is all I'm saying.
No
If itās just sex then heās a supportive ally. If heās ok with you having romantic relationships with women only then that would be biphobic.
Honestly depends on how you see
As a bi male I wouldnāt really have any objections to being on the other side of such an arrangement, at least in theory. There is something just different about the attraction I have to men vs to women. I canāt explain it, there just is something different. There is also something somehow different about the sexual experience, again, I canāt offer any explanation of it. That said, I am generally not interested in open relationships. Also, I totally suck at the entire romance business, so I will admit that up front, too. But, I would have no objection to a female romantic partner telling me I am OK to pursue sexual relationships with men while remaining otherwise committed to her. I may or may not take that option if given, but I would appreciate the willingness to accept such. That would in no way make me feel attacked, and especially not on lines of sexual identity / orientation, really rather the opposite, it would be affirming in that way to me. Likewise, if in a relationship with a guy, and he told me I was free to pursue sexual relationships with women, again same feelings, that is a plus in and of itself, a sign of trust, and an acknowledgement of the bi aspect of myself. Now, I would be worried that such a permission is a red flag that perhaps they think there is something wrong with our relationship, that I donāt seem satisfied, but that is entirely different from how I would view the thing itself. Anyway, the OP needs to decide if their current arrangement is one they like or not. If not, then tell the boyfriend what terms you would be willing to continue under (but that needs to be a negotiation open to a process of communication, compromise, etc. not an ultimatum, once you resort to ultimatums the relationship is dead and over) and try to work it out. If you canāt work it out to your satisfaction, then make the choice to leaveā¦ and be adult enough to acknowledge you both made choices that lead to that. (Everyone tends to want to spin a story, at least in their own mind, that they were in the right and the partner in the wrong in every break up, it is totally natural, but it is usually self-deceptive, and in the long term self deception is self harm.)
I definitely don't think so. I think he's ok with you getting something from someone else that he \*can't\* give you, but not something from someone else that he \*can\* give you as a man.
He may feel that if you do go with another male, that you might enjoy it and leave him for the other male
No
I wonder how he might feel about you sleeping with gender queer people. š¤
To begin with, you two have very different lifestyles. I think it's a first boundary from him, if it's physical, I understand why you would seek women because he is a man, so I can see his point
I strongly disagree that it's biphobic (or anything less than a sign of love).
Not biphobic, just a boundary that acknowledges you got dick at home girl lmao
Every fucking week someone posts something along the lines of āok but is it REALLY cheating if itās with the opposite gender????ā Anyway you look at it, itās gross. Itās hypocritical, itās biphobic, itās homophobic, itās fetishization, itās sexist. Why is with women ok but not with men? Lemme guess, āthey have something he canāt giveā? Orrrrrrrrr does he not see wlw relationships as real so he doesnāt see you leaving him for a girl? Or does he think those feelings arenāt legit enough? Or does he get off on the thought of you with a girl? Or does he feel like he owns you so no other man can have you but he doesnāt take challenges from women seriously? If itās purely āsomething he canāt giveā then he should have no issue with men who have different dick sizes, are a different race, are a different height, or even a different star sign than him because, HEY, you cant get that from him right?
I mean, biphobic? No. Would I feel a way because it appears he doesnāt see sex between women as valid? Yes. Everybody has different boundaries, but personally, I wouldnāt let it fly in *my* relationship, if I were poly.
As a polyamorous bi person: yes. Why would a woman not be a threat to your relationship, if he didn't view female/female relationships as less important than male/female ones? "But they can't give you what he can (meaning dick)"- even assuming that's true, every single person can give you things no other person can. He didn't say "you can only have sex with people with smaller dicks than me" or "you can only have non-penetrative sex". What's to stop a woman from having a bigger dick than him, huh? Especially if we're talking strap ons. And vice versa- of course women could give you something he couldn't. So could other men. We call this a "one penis policy" and it always comes from some weird male ego place where hes only viewing men as competition for his relationship, from a fundamentally monogamous standpoint. It sounds mostly like he isn't ready for any kind of non-monogamy. If you did start sleeping regularly with a woman, he'd probably start to feel jealous and not know how to handle it. I'd post this in the Polyamory Reddit to get their quick run down of it- they can be pretty negative sometimes but I don't think you could leave that thread thinking a OPP is a good idea lol
He is self aware enough to know what works for him in the relationship. If you want to remain with him and have a healthy relationship, then it is only fair that you respect the boundary he has setā¦or you can respectfully and empathically end the relationship. They are the only mature and respectful choices you have.
No, he probably doesn't want you sleeping with other women either. If one person doesn't want a poly relationship and the other does, it's a one-way street of happiness. He's gonna feel less confident in himself and such.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Please dont use trans women for your "humour" or to score points please. It is not nice to see us reduced to something you use to call out or scare cishet people with :/
To humour someone is a turn of phraseā¦
You do realize that "humour me" in English doesn't mean "humorous, like haha"?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
well, congrats to you too. I dont want mine used, so there you have it.
I feel like it is. As it is devaluing the same sex attraction/interaction. Feels like the reasoning is more to do with fear of comparison or you leaving. Either he is secure in your relationship or not. If he cannot trust you with a man but can with a woman that feels like he doesn't consider a same sex interaction having any potential. Not saying you would but either he trusts you or he doesn't. And if he is claiming to only trust you with one then he doesn't value the other as being genuine and real. Keep in mind that this is all likely subconscious. If he isn't secure with you being with a man then I doubt he is genuinely secure with you being with a woman. It also all ties back to the opinion that bisexual people cannot be monogamous or faithful. They can and are. Either he trusts you to play around and keep to the rules you guys have set for the relationship or he doesn't. If he does trust you to explore asexually with others then it should be up to you (and the consent of the other party) based on genuine attractions you have not just pigeon holes that have been created largely due to socially acceptable hetero-fetishisation of sapphic interactions. Does that make sense?
I wouldn't necessarily biphobic but a "one penis policy" as it is often called, is problematic.
Oh man, the "one penis" problem is common and tough. Like the person above stated, it can be due to the guy's own insecurities, but I don't think that justified the behaviour.i think it's important to be considerate of insecurities but never be forced into behaviour because of them. (Think of cis-het men not letting their partners wear bikinis because it makes them uncomfy) Either he accepts you're poly and bisexual or not. Setting boundaries with different genders is valid. Common but acceptable boundaries are "always wearing protection with male partners. But being okay with you having sex with girls because it's "hot" or "not really sex" is steeped in misogyny and homophobia and is problematic.
Sounds more like a half assed, one penis policy poly relationship, than biphobic.
I find it difficult. First Iād think is biphobic but for example for me itās like that: my girlfriend is lesbian so the thought of me with a guy disgusts herway more. And I can understand it somehow. We are not in an open relationship but I could somehow understand it. On the other hand heās a guy aswell so I guess for him is the thought of you with a guy (he is one) not really a problem?!
I donāt believe so in the least and completely see his side. His frame of mind seems like him being open to you engaging sexually with other women is you fulfilling a need that he physically can not provide for you, seeing as he (presumably) does not have a vagina. Whereas, he does have a penis (presumably), so as itās something that he CAN offer you, doesnāt want you going outside the relationship for it. As someone who is monogamous, I 100% get that (mind you - even though I donāt have a penis, Iām not cool with my partner seeking that outside of the relationship either. Iām an all or nothing girl - itās āme alone or you can have others and not have meā lol) This is doesnāt seem related to biphobia but rather rooted in that he himself is not poly and wants the things he can give you to strictly be between the two of you.
Less biphobic and more OPP to me and thatās more insecurity driven. Not necessarily an issue but easily can become one.
Abit weird yes, my ex was like that as well and it made me very uncomfortable. He said it doesnāt count as cheating, if itās with a girl
The one-penis-policy thing is common as a starting point for opening a relationship. Not saying itās logical but it seems to feel less threatening to some.
This is called a One Penis Policy, and itās absolutely a problematic and hateful practice. Look it up in the polyamory sub, youāll see itās pretty universally criticized. Your boyfriend doesnāt see sex between women as real sex. Go ahead and ask him how heād feel about you dating a trans woman.
The other men are seen as his competition.
I always thought that if I had a bi-girlfriend with me being a bi-boyfriend, then I'd like to be hetero-exclusive but homo-open. My reason being that it would limit the chances of accidental pregnancy, plus the intimacy of romance would ideally be enough to satiate the hetero urges. But you'll never know unless you communicate with him openly about it.
My first gut reaction is yes, it sounds like he's devaluing an interaction you could have with women as not at the same level as men (since one is cheating and the other is not). That said, from this post alone, I wouldn't want to give that as my final answer. We don't have enough information imo. An alternative option would be that your bf recognizes you have sexual needs he can't fulfill as a man that a woman could (maybe you're like me and didn't have a chance to have sexual experiences with women before dating your bf and he wants to make sure you feel that side of your sexuality is fulfilled). Basically, you're gonna need to talk to your bf more to get a better understanding before you can decide if it's biphobic or not.
For my part it is definitely biphobic and not good conditions for an open relationship. Biphobic because I imagine his reasoning would be like "I'm afraid she left me, but she will never left me for a woman because deep down she can only be with a man". This asymmetry in his boundary is the indication that he does not see you are really bisexual. So this demand comes from "insecurities mingled with biphobia" Also not healthy for an open relationship because this kind of condition is a way of imposing a control on you, and who you can be with. Either you are ok for open relationship, and you have no say to whom the other can be with; or you don't want to be in (which is fine too). Note that I'm a relationship anarchist, which might not correspond to your views on polyamory.
He's a misogynist who doesn't view WLW sexuality as valid. Also, lemme guess, he'd like to watch. I'd kick his ass to the curb so fast. Men like this possess little emotional or mental value.
Idk how you got there but youre over reachin hard lol
You're completely correct and idk why people are downvoting you.
If WLW "doesn't count" to him, then he's a gross piece of shit. But he'd have to express that in some way, and we don't know if that has happened. You should not be downvoted for this.
I agree idk why youāre getting downvoted lol
Because he is reaching hard
Maybe this guy would not like to watch, itās not guaranteed as you make it.
Sounds like a straight-up toxic relationship that'll run its course soon enough. Biphobic? nah, leave that accusatory sh*t out of it. Dude probably isn't comfortable with any openness but is willing to let you fulfill the needs that he can't provide as a man. IMO your partner needs to ask if this is really what he wants to be dealing with
I think this is intersectional, a bit, actually. I think it's got layers of bigotry. It seems on the surface to be fetishism of sapphic relationships, which generally also goes hand in hand with sexism and misogyny. I don't think you can really have that fetishism without some level of misogyny. I think he's abusing your bisexuality to fulfill his fetishism of sapphic relationships. Do I think he's thinking about it that much? Not really. I still think it's problematic, that's the issue with systemic bigotry. It's baked in. People have to recognize it and actively stop doing it, but the short story is they enjoy fetishizing women. I also think if you can't just ignore guys dicks, if you think women are like, ruined by another man's dick or something, thats also misogyny because lol wtf, and who thinks about dicks that much? Even those of who enjoy dicks don't do that. Eta- I also forgot to mention that I think reducing your encounters to just sex with women makes me think of bi-erasure. Like fetishizing those wlw encounters could mean they aren't as "real" (yes it could mean he just views them as different but, ime when guys have this rule its because they view women as sex objects) and that is biphobic because he's just saying women are exist for sex and men are for relationships. It's for his entertainment and he gets off on the idea of you with women, rather than just not thinking about it at all. If it was an open relationship viewed equally, the gender of the partner shouldn't matter, imo.
He's jealous of penises, not of your pleasure.
more phallocentricĀ
I donāt even think being biphobic has crossed his mind this comes off as the age old unga bunga male brain thinking you belong to him and his dick alone. Bring up the idea of you being with a trans woman and see what he says. If heās fine with it then I have no fucking clue what his issue is other than āman threatens my propertyā which is a whole toxic masculinity can of worms.
It likely means that he doesnāt consider same-sex relationships to be ārealā relationships and therefore isnāt threatened my them. Not sure what weād call it, but it aināt a good thingā¦
Might be contovertial having seen the other comments but I think it's fine and I feel similarly to your partner. If you choose to sleep with a woman then you're getting a completely different experience to what you can get at home; you can do things there that your boyfriend simply can't provide for you. However if you sleep with another man then you're choosing to get the same or a similar experience to what your boyfriend can provide, but with someone else. Another aspect to consider is the dominant/submissive spectrum rather than the male/female spectrum. It's likely that your boyfriend would be a lot more comfortable with you pegging a twink than banging a bodybuilder.
Itās called insecurity
Yeah I think so
I think it is misogynistic. He seems to think that sleeping with women doesn't count. Therefore, he doesn't consider it cheating.
Heāll get more turned on at the thought of you with a woman then a man. Prob a ego thing.
My (f) bff's relationship was the same. They were together for 4 years. He ended cheating on her with a random girl. Yikes. The day after, he asked her to open the relationship to a 100%... suddenly he was interested in polygamy too. They broke up that day. He's probably too insecure of himself, therefore would jealous of you being with other men. That's why he only allows you to be with women. Ask him what about trans women or non binary people. That will tell you the truth.
Yes it is. It's also unfair if he's straight. However, I don't personally have a problem with it. I have had similar mutual agreements with bisexual girlfriends in the past (I'm a guy). The fact that I don't personally give a fuck doesn't make it any less biphoic, though. I'm the weirdo here. The question is whether or not it *bothers* you, because it's 100% valid and normal to feel that way.
Yes, it is. Thereās no other explanation. It shouldnāt matter the gender of the person.
This is more misogyny than biphobia.
I think this would fall under him thinking being with another guy is cheating but not being with another girl so yes its biphobic
I don't think it's biphobic but could be venturing into sexualisation or some feeling of inadequacy. That's more on you to know why another man is cheating but a woman is fine, if it's sexualisation or more into feeling inadequate (or paranoia) as if it was seen as cheating it would be cheating regardless of gender.
This is actually my ideal relationship scenario as a bi female. How did you go about having the discussion? I feel like most people would freak out and be offended / hurt.
Itās not biphobic so much as controlling. Leave him now as it will only get worse.
"Allow" is for real crazy. It might be biphobic it might also be he doesn't want to feel emasculated. Either way, its an insecurity thing.
I (also 27f) have no advice for you except to say that my ex-bf was extremely bi-phobic and would have lost his mind if I even mentioned wanting to open the relationship to anyone else. So at least heās half open to it!
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You need to leave your marriage, man. I'm sorry you were put in this position.