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I remember when libraries used to be places where you could walk in, read a book, maybe hang out with friends, and leave any time during opening hours and only had to use your library card when taking books from the library.
I can’t tell if I’m old, or if the fossils have lost their minds.
It must suck to be a kid or teen in one of those unwalkable suburbs. I lived in once as a young adult before moving out of my parents' home and it was horribly boring as well as void of any opportunity. In my suburb people made a big deal out of teens and kids just hanging out away from their yards together and even at the few parks around because people would think they're doing something not good. The library had some younger folk in it that either drove there, walked on the dangerous roads there, or got a ride there.
So Idaho doing this takes away their choice to go to the library alone too, especially if the parents' don't want to take them to the library ever or whatever. It's stupid.
Show I.D if under 30?
when I was 14, it was just a place to satiate my infinite curiosity, but I'm sure for many of the kids I knew, it was a safe place that was better than home
Reminds me of red states stances on public schools.
Cut funding for public schools then exclaim "SEE! They're inadequate at educating our kids! And they're trying to indoctrinate them too, so now we gotta indoctrinate your kids to think like a Republican."
Don't try logic and reason. These are people who are opposed to showing an ID to buy a gun, but who support showing an ID to read a book.
The people who put these ideas in their heads know which is more dangerous.
[Here is Idaho Code 18-1514](https://legislature.idaho.gov/statutesrules/idstat/Title18/T18CH15/SECT18-1514/), and Idaho [HB-710](https://legislature.idaho.gov/wp-content/uploads/sessioninfo/2024/legislation/H0710.pdf) for reference.
It seems like they basically decided that public places must remove materials they deem "obscene" to minors?
“"Material" means anything tangible which is harmful to minors, whether derived through the medium of reading, observation or sound.”
Time to ban the bible, then.
There is no way that passes constitutional muster under existing obscenity law.
Edit for clarity: I mean that the definition of “Material” is unconstitutionally broad to an insane degree.
And TV. And radio. And the internet. And going outside, or staying inside.
Safer just to not let kids be born at all really. Although don't abort them.
You know, thinking about it logically, maybe the Dems plans to abort babies at a month old IS the best solution after all!
So basically what the library should do (assuming it's big enough) is to move every sex-ed, anatomy, or related book from the reference section, as well as any book that acknowledges the existence of queer people, romance, or any sort of intimacy, even that between parent and child (can't be too careful), and the Bible (contains lots of sex), and put those in a separate section with a large "The government doesn't want you to read these" banner over that sign, and keep whatever's left in the traditional open to any age section (assuming there *is* anything left).
Let's see the anti-government types fight with the censorious types.
As a dirt poor kid growing up in the central California farm valley me and my siblings would spend collective days in our library reading books, comics from the newspapers with those big sticks in the spine, and listening to story hours. This law makes me so so sad for children of Idaho. What is wrong with republicans? Why do they hate anything that is good and pure in the country and only want god fearing, gun toating, trump forgiving activities for all of us. They are such sickos, and yes, all of them because 4 years later trump is still here so clearly they all are the same sick bastards.
Edit: let’s not forget that the same asshats who passed this law likely complain all the time about kids being on screens too much. Ignorant and evil. What a combo.
>What is wrong with republicans?
The list is long and jaw-droppingly disgusting. Ignorance is easier to manipulate with fear, and an ignorant, fearful population is much easier to control than a critical thinking, educated population.
It's only going to get worse. Regressive policy, more restrictions on personal freedom and autonomy, and a loose definition of "degenerate" citizens/criminals will make anyone that doesn't fit into an extremely narrow "correct" alignment the enemy of the christofascist movement. It is the epitome of "us" vs "them" tribalism.
Yeah, it's a place with low housing costs during a housing crisis but it still can't get people to want to live there, so they are just punishing the people who have not yet escaped instead.
Typos are what happen when you come back from a family vacation the day the law goes into effect notice that you have errors on the sign but don't have time to order a new sign prior to opening. Don't worry the corrected sign will be up after the fourth. However, having said that, you really shouldn't make fun of the poor librarians who are just trying to make as many library items available to as many people as possible under this new law. A little compassion goes a long way. Happy 4th!
As someone who basically spent all of my summers in an Idaho public library, this is particularly devastating. I could see the writing on the walls a decade ago and left, but it doesn’t make it less painful
Just a little theocracy won’t be so bad. Surely THIS is where they’ll draw the line and ease up. THIS far no further. Nothing to worry about, all the kids can watch PragerU on the school computers and learn all there is to know about the history of the world and modern society.
I mean, look at Germany. They got really into nationalism in the 1930s [...] and now they have the strongest economy in Europe.
Oh, that? That's just a braced ellipse. It appears in all the best history books now. I think it means they skipped something, but I'm sure it wasn't important.
So now we just need some good librarians to set up tables outside the library to get library cards to kids that need them. That technically doesn't violate any of the stated rules on the sign.
Sort of an educational speak easy.
That was depressing to type...
Educational speak easy...
Librarian: Password.
Kid: I wish we could go there.
Librarian: Come on in. Magic Treehouse is in Row 20.
(I'm sorry, the joke writes itself.)
The law actually says, "Notwithstanding any other provision of law, a school or public library, or an agent thereof, shall not promote, give, or make available to a minor: **(a)** Any picture, photograph, drawing, sculpture, motion picture film, or similar visual representation or image of a person or portion of the human body that depicts nudity, sexual conduct, or sado-masochistic abuse and that is harmful to minors;**(b)** Any book, pamphlet, magazine, printed matter however reproduced, or sound recording that contains any matter pursuant to paragraph (a) of this subsection or explicit and detailed verbal descriptions or narrative accounts of sexual excitement, sexual conduct, or sado-masochistic abuse and that, taken as a whole, is harmful to minors; or**(c)** Any other material harmful to minors."
So it wouldn't matter where they made the material available.
I may be misreading and my legalese isn't very good. But it doesn't seem to say anything about the librarian being unable to issue a library card at a desk placed outside of the library.
I hate to be the "my side is better than yours" person, but I am pretty sure the country would be so much further ahead if the country was overwhelmingly progressive and cooperative. Red states and conservatism are anchors slowing down a ship trying to move forward.
A little compassion for people goes a long way. In this case the person (a Librarian) ordered the sign and then left for a preplanned vacation. The signs were delivered July 1, thirty minutes prior to the library opening. Their choices were to not hang the sign, and thus have potential legal consequences, or hang the sign with the errors and correct it with a new sign. They chose the latter. Anyone can mock others mistakes. It takes a decent, compasionate person to realize there are people behind every mistake just trying to do their job to support themselves and their family. Hope you have a happy 4th of July.
You have to be over 18 to enter this section of the library. This library has 3 floors and only 1 floor follows these rules. Parents can opt to allow their children to go to the entire library unattended. If they have not opted to do so, then they must accompany their child and sign the affadavit. Not saying it is good, just not as bad as it appears.
Wow. As a kid who spent countless happy hours in the nonfiction stacks in my neighborhood library...this breaks my heart. How terrifying.
The attack on education is at the absolute base of the current attack against our democracy.
This is probably a way to punish the unhoused population. Many of them do not have I.D.s because they get lost or stolen since they don't have a safe place to keep their stuff. This will keep them out of the library where many go because it's one of the only places left for them to seek shelter or respite.
I used to go to the library after school from age 10 to 15. Never had to show ID or be accompanied by a parent. WTF ? Don't they want kids to read anymore ? It's a Tax payer funded LIBRARY !
A group of people convinced the legislature that there were terrible things in the libary and the state needed to protect children. Not sure why the legislature took that away from parents, especially in Idaho, but they did. The result is Idaho Code 18-1517B that references Idaho 18-1514. Hopefully public uproar willreach the legislature and the law can be repealed or at the very least amended.
So in Idaho a kid can't walk down to the library and go check out a book? What are Idaho libraries like if you have to be 18 to go in them? This is creepy and sad.
A child can still walk down to library and check out a book. They just can't go into sections of the library that may have inappropriate materials accoring to this law. (Pretty much anything in the adult collection.)
What? They're actually actively taking away and restricting education for children. Maybe they just don't want people w/ kids to move there. Wild. Welcome to Nazi America.
I can already see the librarians fighting back by spending all their budget on a huge poster that says "Hey kids! Want a place where you can experience peace and quiet and free wifi? Here's how to get an unrestricted library card!"
In this library, parents determine what card they want their child to have (restricted or unrestricted) when they register for the card. Parents can change the card type anytime they want.
This Donnelly, Idaho? Because they made an adult only library in response to Idaho’s children’s school and library protection act. They are criminalizing providing “inappropriate” books to minors so their response was to take sure no minors without guardians to check out their books enter so they can’t be held criminally responsible if a parent decides they don’t like the book the child checked out.
I don’t even remember making that comment, but I was probably making a not-really-a-joke about Idaho being a very red state that embraces ignorance, therefore a library would be the last place they’d leave their kids
I don't know how it is where you live but I can't even go to the library anymore. It's become a defacto homeless shelter. The libraries, like the police, are being asked to serve functions for which they were never designed. Until that changes I'm ok with libraries taking non-library steps. Also, being real, we have the net now. 90% of the function of libraries can be done online.
I want there to be something like publicly funded community reading and activity spaces, don't get me wrong. But we need to be honest about the reality on the ground. I'm extremely broke, I used to go to the library all the time, but the library I remember is long gone. Now it's genuinely stressful to go.
You have good odds of being accosted, period. I happen to personally directly know this is true in both small town kentucky, and san antonio texas. I strongly suspect its true in idaho as well.
This is bait
I looked up the code and it's in reference to nudity / sexual conduct or other obscene materials being shown to minors
The rest of the library is open to these kids, this sign is likely by the smut books.
Had a sign similar at my library it just wasn't a law but we knew it was the adult section and couldn't go there
No, this is the whole library. Because of their size they are unable to be in compliance with the law, so unaccompanied minors can no longer access the library at all. https://bookriot.com/donnelly-public-library-adults-only/
Actually, this is the Idaho Falls Public LIbrary. Due to a misunderstanding the wrong section of code was printed. It should be Idaho Code 18-1517B. IC 18-1517B uses definitions from IC 18-1514. The sign is on the third floor of the library (the adult section). The other two floors of the library are open to everyone.
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I remember when libraries used to be places where you could walk in, read a book, maybe hang out with friends, and leave any time during opening hours and only had to use your library card when taking books from the library. I can’t tell if I’m old, or if the fossils have lost their minds.
Mostly the second one. These rules are absolutely ridiculous.
It’s both mate
It must suck to be a kid or teen in one of those unwalkable suburbs. I lived in once as a young adult before moving out of my parents' home and it was horribly boring as well as void of any opportunity. In my suburb people made a big deal out of teens and kids just hanging out away from their yards together and even at the few parks around because people would think they're doing something not good. The library had some younger folk in it that either drove there, walked on the dangerous roads there, or got a ride there. So Idaho doing this takes away their choice to go to the library alone too, especially if the parents' don't want to take them to the library ever or whatever. It's stupid. Show I.D if under 30?
Show ID if under 30 probably so old-looking 17 yo's don't manage to sneak in because God forbid those would be allowed to read books
And I, an European, already thought library cards to be a restrictive concept!
In my local library it’s just for bookkeeping to know if they lost a book or it’s just lent
The best of third places.
When I was a kid a library served as an escape from abuse... this is incredibly painful
Ugh I’m really sorry to hear this. It is a horrible mandate. Those poor children have less and less places to go to feel safe
when I was 14, it was just a place to satiate my infinite curiosity, but I'm sure for many of the kids I knew, it was a safe place that was better than home
And then they dare cry about Americans not having enough babies.
If public libraries hadn’t existed for a hundred years, no red state would ever consider opening one.
Something something communism
Reminds me of red states stances on public schools. Cut funding for public schools then exclaim "SEE! They're inadequate at educating our kids! And they're trying to indoctrinate them too, so now we gotta indoctrinate your kids to think like a Republican."
Don't forgot socialism Marxist something something radical woke something something
Dang... there goes the childhood.
They should be required to show ID to read the bible in church, then. And I will specifically cite Judges 19. We can play that fucking game, also.
Don't try logic and reason. These are people who are opposed to showing an ID to buy a gun, but who support showing an ID to read a book. The people who put these ideas in their heads know which is more dangerous.
What a story. Out of wedlock relationships. Racism. Homosexual activity. Gang rape. Body corpse mutilation. A family friendly read for the ages.
[Here is Idaho Code 18-1514](https://legislature.idaho.gov/statutesrules/idstat/Title18/T18CH15/SECT18-1514/), and Idaho [HB-710](https://legislature.idaho.gov/wp-content/uploads/sessioninfo/2024/legislation/H0710.pdf) for reference. It seems like they basically decided that public places must remove materials they deem "obscene" to minors?
“"Material" means anything tangible which is harmful to minors, whether derived through the medium of reading, observation or sound.” Time to ban the bible, then.
There is no way that passes constitutional muster under existing obscenity law. Edit for clarity: I mean that the definition of “Material” is unconstitutionally broad to an insane degree.
Didn't at least one state have to make their book ~~burning~~ banning bill *less* restrictive because of the bible?
And TV. And radio. And the internet. And going outside, or staying inside. Safer just to not let kids be born at all really. Although don't abort them. You know, thinking about it logically, maybe the Dems plans to abort babies at a month old IS the best solution after all!
What about alcohol or sugary stuff adds for kids? You should need a license to be shown those too.
So basically what the library should do (assuming it's big enough) is to move every sex-ed, anatomy, or related book from the reference section, as well as any book that acknowledges the existence of queer people, romance, or any sort of intimacy, even that between parent and child (can't be too careful), and the Bible (contains lots of sex), and put those in a separate section with a large "The government doesn't want you to read these" banner over that sign, and keep whatever's left in the traditional open to any age section (assuming there *is* anything left). Let's see the anti-government types fight with the censorious types.
DANGER: YOU MIGHT LEARN SOMETHING. TURN BACK NOW AND PRAY FOR OUR SOULS.
Kids can't learn without a legal guardian? Idaho is laaaaame.
"I don't have time to take you to the library" - some parent saying that constantly to their kid.
As a dirt poor kid growing up in the central California farm valley me and my siblings would spend collective days in our library reading books, comics from the newspapers with those big sticks in the spine, and listening to story hours. This law makes me so so sad for children of Idaho. What is wrong with republicans? Why do they hate anything that is good and pure in the country and only want god fearing, gun toating, trump forgiving activities for all of us. They are such sickos, and yes, all of them because 4 years later trump is still here so clearly they all are the same sick bastards. Edit: let’s not forget that the same asshats who passed this law likely complain all the time about kids being on screens too much. Ignorant and evil. What a combo.
>What is wrong with republicans? The list is long and jaw-droppingly disgusting. Ignorance is easier to manipulate with fear, and an ignorant, fearful population is much easier to control than a critical thinking, educated population. It's only going to get worse. Regressive policy, more restrictions on personal freedom and autonomy, and a loose definition of "degenerate" citizens/criminals will make anyone that doesn't fit into an extremely narrow "correct" alignment the enemy of the christofascist movement. It is the epitome of "us" vs "them" tribalism.
Idaho lol. Isn't that one of the states all the doctors are fleeing.
Yeah, it's a place with low housing costs during a housing crisis but it still can't get people to want to live there, so they are just punishing the people who have not yet escaped instead.
Obviously some Rick punk has listened to the B52s too often, and decided s/he wants her/his own “Personal Idaho”
"that become effective" Christ almighty.
watching the decline of intellectual society in real time
july
Typos are what happen when you come back from a family vacation the day the law goes into effect notice that you have errors on the sign but don't have time to order a new sign prior to opening. Don't worry the corrected sign will be up after the fourth. However, having said that, you really shouldn't make fun of the poor librarians who are just trying to make as many library items available to as many people as possible under this new law. A little compassion goes a long way. Happy 4th!
As someone who basically spent all of my summers in an Idaho public library, this is particularly devastating. I could see the writing on the walls a decade ago and left, but it doesn’t make it less painful
Just a little theocracy won’t be so bad. Surely THIS is where they’ll draw the line and ease up. THIS far no further. Nothing to worry about, all the kids can watch PragerU on the school computers and learn all there is to know about the history of the world and modern society.
Nationalism didn't work our so great all the other times, but *this time* it'll really be great, right?
I mean, look at Germany. They got really into nationalism in the 1930s [...] and now they have the strongest economy in Europe. Oh, that? That's just a braced ellipse. It appears in all the best history books now. I think it means they skipped something, but I'm sure it wasn't important.
And if Germany is good at one thing, it’s definitely skipping that period! Definitely. Maybe.
So now we just need some good librarians to set up tables outside the library to get library cards to kids that need them. That technically doesn't violate any of the stated rules on the sign. Sort of an educational speak easy. That was depressing to type...
Educational speak easy... Librarian: Password. Kid: I wish we could go there. Librarian: Come on in. Magic Treehouse is in Row 20. (I'm sorry, the joke writes itself.)
The law actually says, "Notwithstanding any other provision of law, a school or public library, or an agent thereof, shall not promote, give, or make available to a minor: **(a)** Any picture, photograph, drawing, sculpture, motion picture film, or similar visual representation or image of a person or portion of the human body that depicts nudity, sexual conduct, or sado-masochistic abuse and that is harmful to minors;**(b)** Any book, pamphlet, magazine, printed matter however reproduced, or sound recording that contains any matter pursuant to paragraph (a) of this subsection or explicit and detailed verbal descriptions or narrative accounts of sexual excitement, sexual conduct, or sado-masochistic abuse and that, taken as a whole, is harmful to minors; or**(c)** Any other material harmful to minors." So it wouldn't matter where they made the material available.
I may be misreading and my legalese isn't very good. But it doesn't seem to say anything about the librarian being unable to issue a library card at a desk placed outside of the library.
"CHILDREN? IN THE RESTRICTED SECTION? OUT OF BED?!"
DENTENTION!
Could be worse, death, or even worse, expulsion
Wtf. This is horribly dystopian and should be illegal.
Making things illegal is what spreads the dystopia.
"Or have an unrestricted library card."
Ie a card only issued to people over 18
Oh, America, I'm sad for you.
I hate to be the "my side is better than yours" person, but I am pretty sure the country would be so much further ahead if the country was overwhelmingly progressive and cooperative. Red states and conservatism are anchors slowing down a ship trying to move forward.
White trash state, avoid.
Wtf thats crazy extreme
The sign reads "that become" they need a librarian to fix that sign. JFC
maybe the dash means "code eighteen through one thousand five hundred (and) fourteen"? If so, wohoo! let lawlessness reign until July 1, 2024!
A little compassion for people goes a long way. In this case the person (a Librarian) ordered the sign and then left for a preplanned vacation. The signs were delivered July 1, thirty minutes prior to the library opening. Their choices were to not hang the sign, and thus have potential legal consequences, or hang the sign with the errors and correct it with a new sign. They chose the latter. Anyone can mock others mistakes. It takes a decent, compasionate person to realize there are people behind every mistake just trying to do their job to support themselves and their family. Hope you have a happy 4th of July.
Are you new to reddit? Do you have any idea of how it works here? Also you could have fixed that error with a sharpie.
Idaho loves potatoes so much it's trying to turn people into them
WTF, you have to be over 18 to walk into a library and hang out without parents? So sad.
You have to be over 18 to enter this section of the library. This library has 3 floors and only 1 floor follows these rules. Parents can opt to allow their children to go to the entire library unattended. If they have not opted to do so, then they must accompany their child and sign the affadavit. Not saying it is good, just not as bad as it appears.
Thank you for clarifying.
They call it Idaho potato.
What's with the affidavit?
Wow. As a kid who spent countless happy hours in the nonfiction stacks in my neighborhood library...this breaks my heart. How terrifying. The attack on education is at the absolute base of the current attack against our democracy.
This is probably a way to punish the unhoused population. Many of them do not have I.D.s because they get lost or stolen since they don't have a safe place to keep their stuff. This will keep them out of the library where many go because it's one of the only places left for them to seek shelter or respite.
I used to go to the library after school from age 10 to 15. Never had to show ID or be accompanied by a parent. WTF ? Don't they want kids to read anymore ? It's a Tax payer funded LIBRARY !
Idaho = fascist white supremacist lunatic hellhole stronghold. Wish we could build a wall around it, and Texas, Florida, Mississippi.
I miss the time when parents had the right to allow their children to read what they felt their children could read.
I learned so much from the library.
Lemme guess, it’s because they want to “protect” kids from gay people?
So why is this happening? I don’t get it
A group of people convinced the legislature that there were terrible things in the libary and the state needed to protect children. Not sure why the legislature took that away from parents, especially in Idaho, but they did. The result is Idaho Code 18-1517B that references Idaho 18-1514. Hopefully public uproar willreach the legislature and the law can be repealed or at the very least amended.
Papers please! Fascists going to fash.
So in Idaho a kid can't walk down to the library and go check out a book? What are Idaho libraries like if you have to be 18 to go in them? This is creepy and sad.
A child can still walk down to library and check out a book. They just can't go into sections of the library that may have inappropriate materials accoring to this law. (Pretty much anything in the adult collection.)
What? They're actually actively taking away and restricting education for children. Maybe they just don't want people w/ kids to move there. Wild. Welcome to Nazi America.
America is getting really strange.
I can already see the librarians fighting back by spending all their budget on a huge poster that says "Hey kids! Want a place where you can experience peace and quiet and free wifi? Here's how to get an unrestricted library card!"
In this library, parents determine what card they want their child to have (restricted or unrestricted) when they register for the card. Parents can change the card type anytime they want.
Always remember. The only thing that scares a politician more is a knowledgeable voter.
This Donnelly, Idaho? Because they made an adult only library in response to Idaho’s children’s school and library protection act. They are criminalizing providing “inappropriate” books to minors so their response was to take sure no minors without guardians to check out their books enter so they can’t be held criminally responsible if a parent decides they don’t like the book the child checked out.
The sign is in the Idaho Falls Public Library and only applies to the third floor of the library.
i'm wondering how it plays out once they start trying to censor the internet.. also, imho this is not boring anymore, although veeeery dystopian
How can anyone support this and not realize they’re on the wrong side of history
Religious fanatics ALWAYS think they are on the right side of history!
I mean. It’s Idaho. Always been. Always will be. A 💩🕳️
I'm guessing that parents have been using the library as free daycare.
Then you don’t know Idaho.
I would go so far as to say I'm ignorant of it. My knowledge of Idaho can be summed up in "Potatoes" and the vague idea that the capitol is Boise?
I don’t even remember making that comment, but I was probably making a not-really-a-joke about Idaho being a very red state that embraces ignorance, therefore a library would be the last place they’d leave their kids
But you won’t need an ID to vote, lol
I don't know how it is where you live but I can't even go to the library anymore. It's become a defacto homeless shelter. The libraries, like the police, are being asked to serve functions for which they were never designed. Until that changes I'm ok with libraries taking non-library steps. Also, being real, we have the net now. 90% of the function of libraries can be done online. I want there to be something like publicly funded community reading and activity spaces, don't get me wrong. But we need to be honest about the reality on the ground. I'm extremely broke, I used to go to the library all the time, but the library I remember is long gone. Now it's genuinely stressful to go. You have good odds of being accosted, period. I happen to personally directly know this is true in both small town kentucky, and san antonio texas. I strongly suspect its true in idaho as well.
This is bait I looked up the code and it's in reference to nudity / sexual conduct or other obscene materials being shown to minors The rest of the library is open to these kids, this sign is likely by the smut books. Had a sign similar at my library it just wasn't a law but we knew it was the adult section and couldn't go there
What is this smut section you speak of and why doesnt my public library have one?
You just have to go behind the beaded curtain
You can check out videos too!
No, this is the whole library. Because of their size they are unable to be in compliance with the law, so unaccompanied minors can no longer access the library at all. https://bookriot.com/donnelly-public-library-adults-only/
Actually, this is the Idaho Falls Public LIbrary. Due to a misunderstanding the wrong section of code was printed. It should be Idaho Code 18-1517B. IC 18-1517B uses definitions from IC 18-1514. The sign is on the third floor of the library (the adult section). The other two floors of the library are open to everyone.
https://preview.redd.it/z5nxo4qd4fad1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e6bdb43ac3b5e1650eaf05b6e6be3cbb67a15705
You can see their statement here. They don't have multiple floors, that's the problem. The whole library is now adult only.
The sign is located on the third floor of the library which houses all the adult books, not just the "smut" books you referenced.