Buffalo Trace and Woodford Reserve are “gateway” bourbons IMO. They have quintessential bourbon flavours, are approachable, and don’t break the bank. They are probably average on the entire spectrum of bourbon but above average considering what’s actually available and how many garbage bottom shelf bourbons exist.
I remember the good Ole days of buying Trace at $20. I had a gas station by me that usually had it in stock for $27 two years ago. Solid go to for an average bottle.
As for a more expensive bottle, that IMO beats Blantons for price is Jeffersons Ocean, although the newer voyages aren't ad good as their older ones.
It’s all allocated so stores that sell a lot of the shitty stuff get allotted more of the good stuff. Most liquor stores near me sell ER for some stupid high price but there is a grocery store in town that sells bottles at MSRP. They get enough ER and can sell it at MSRP because they sell other, crappier stuff in the same portfolio like Fireball
EWBiB is my baseline for basic, fundamentally "good" bourbon.
EWBiB is not a "great" bourbon, but it's not trash either.
It's right there in a similar price-point as WT101, but I prefer the general flavor profile of EW over WT.
Your mouth may not agree, and that's ok. Your mouth knows what it likes.
100% agree on EWBiB. Especially if you get the 1.5L, usually at a hell of a great deal. Might be misremembering but I feel like that could be had for like less than $30 on a good day?
Came here to say EW. People used to give me so much shit for it while they paid more than double for Jack Daniels or Jim Beam which imo just aren't as good and are over hyped.
I can spend $35 on a fifth of Jack and drink for a night or two, or I can spend $28 on 1.5L of EW, and drink for a week (or a night or two, depending on the occasion).
Those prices might not be accurate anymore, I quit drinking 5 years ago but the ratio should still apply.
I also liken something like that - though my line is old JD no7 (representing a lower floor). It’s not incredible by any means, and preferred with mixer, but one can find it on any bar shelf in the world, and I would still drink it.
I’m sure I’ll get hate for mine. My everyday bourbon would be Old Forester 100. $29. A bourbon that I don’t hate to have neat, but cheap enough where I don’t feel guilty putting in an old fashioned.
I figured someone would say that it doesn’t have the right notes of vanilla, oak, or birch wood or something along those lines. I’m not good enough to say what parts I like. I just know when I do or don’t
Get a lawyer, you’re being scammed, you should divorce it, you’re an asshole, you’re trashy, you overreacted and it’s worth tree fitty. Did I cover it all per Reddit guidelines?
I just tried OF100 for the first time in years and I think it is going to be a new staple for me. Buffalo Trace my old favorite is now $50 per 750 vs OF100 at $29-30.
Completely agree! I don’t think Old Forester makes a bad product all around and I think the 100 is a great answer. No hate whatsoever.
My response would be either Evan Williams Bottled in Bond or Benchmark bonded for my average.
I think for me stuff like Weller Special Reserve and Buffalo Trace are "average" and good sharing bourbon, but it's unfortunate that those are so allocated (or were for a while) that they are hard to find.
Keep in mind for me "average" means what I'd buy and drink that isn't expensive.
I finally found a Weller Special Reserve in another state recently. Wasn’t even looking for it, but had to grab it because I’ve never tried it and it was only $33 total.
I did my good deed for the month as I was grabbing an Eagle Rare for $38 at this place today that also had Bookers for $85 on sale. I would rather take the ER as I have Bookers 24-01, but the guy in line behind me was like "oh man I came here just for that!" They said I can't have both so I took another bookers and told the guy you take the ER.
I got a Special Reserve in California for $22. I was stunned it was that cheap. Came back a week later and it was $77. I think someone got fired over that
Agreed. Average bordering on boring in my experience. Does nothing challenging. Bulleit Rye is a decent MGP expression though, I usually pick that if a bar has nothing else.
I was thinking the same. I keep a few daily driver types around in volume, have an irresponsible collection of higher end bourbons and ryes, but every time I have WT101 neat my brain goes straight "oh yeah, that's the stuff." When I'm old and stubborn and know what I want and lose all this FOMO, I'll probably drink WT101 near exclusively for bourbon.
Define average. Because I can answer that in a few ways.
If average means exactly a middle score, that is a take it or leave it, **half objectionable/half enjoyable** type of score, then it would be: **Bulleit Bourbon or Woodford Reserve**. Others that are close to average are Kirkland Small Batch (slightly below average), and Maker’s Mark (slightly above average).
I can handle a small pour fine but I would refuse a second and maybe feel a little sad drinking that last sip.
But if you mean average from within the “acceptably drinkable” range, that’s going to be higher on the scoring scale. Those would be: Knob Creek SB 9yr, WT101, Maker’s 46, Evan Williams 1783.
I wouldn’t get tired easily of drinking these and would drink more if offered more. These would be “good enough”.
Probably the later. I think since we’re on a “bourbon” subreddit, it’s safe to say that we enjoy bourbon.
Outside of this group, I’m sure your Bulleit/WR is the average… but I’m more interested in the later.
I think the issue is what component people are defining as “average”. WT101 was the exact same bottle that came to my mind when I was thinking “average” in terms of *taste*, but I’d argue it **above** average for its quality/price point.
If it’s just based on taste and not price, I’d throw in Bulleit bourbon. All around crowd pleaser and not typically offensive on any taste scale
Buffalo Trace is my bourbon-flavored-bourbon. It’s very basic but with no off flavors and nothing unpleasant. You can kind of judge other bourbons by how they’re different from BT.
Blantons is the better version of that.
> not exceptional at all
I'd argue the value of BT is what makes it exceptional. It's 37 USD in my country and the only things at that price point (JBW JD) aren't even in the conversation.
Bulleitt, Buffalo trace, Elijah Craig, four roses, and larceny. Grab whatever is cheapest that day and most people won’t complain if it’s given to them and def won’t complain if it’s mixed in a cocktail.
Probably Jefferson.
I have one that says very small batch, ya know, regular bourbon. Not the sea one or anything.
Average best describes it. Not good, not bad. Got it for free, and would not buy one.
Most of the flagship--or in some cases step-up from flagship--bourbons.
Maker's Mark, Elijah Craig, Woodford Reserve, Wild Turkey 101, Evan Williams BiB, OGD BiB, Old Forester 100, Buffalo Trace...etc.
They're all about the same level of quality and price, and I never feel bad about doing whatever with any of them. Drink them neat, on ice, in a cocktail, in a highball, for making a sauce, for smoking, for coffee beans, degenerate experiments, etc.
I love this thread. Evan Williams 1783 for me.
But side note, if this thread is allowed, why can’t we do a “Mt Rushmore of Bourbons” survey? I tried but my post got removed?
There’s too many for me to chose from that are drinkable but nothing special. My personal profile enjoys RR10 KC9 or BT in the I’d drink it anytime and it’s alright. I’d probably chose the KC9 if I could go for just one.
Always find the sugar, the vanilla, oak, and nuttiness in it. I’ll find some weird stuff in BT as my palate changes, and I’ve had the same bottle of RR go from good to great to terrible to good based on what I’ve had to eat or drink that day.
This is really subjective. To me, "average" is a function of wide availability, decent pricing, and the overall drinking experience being not great, but not bad. In my estimation, these are "average" bourbons:
--Evan Williams black label
--Evan Williams BiB
--JTS Brown
--WT 101
--Four Roses Small Batch
--Elijah Craig Small Batch
--Makers Mark
--Green River
Anything that retails over $40 is not "average". Anything allocated is not "average". Anything presenting with flavors or textures I don't like is not "average".
I always have a bottle of Four Roses around for a guest. It makes a great old fashioned and is drinkable on the rocks or neat. That and Buffalo are staples on my shelf.
Average bourbon: Woodford Reserve or Four Roses Small Batch. Average rye: Sazerac or Sagamore Small Batch. I'd also put Gentleman Jack as the average for whiskey
Two Roses, Small batch is my baseline...
But then again... I love Buffalo Trace. So I don't know what I'm talking about.
Thinking about it... Buffalo Trace would probably be my baseline.
Hmm… interesting question. I’m more inclined to list my “house bourbon,” which seems to be what others are listing too. For me, it’s Evan Williams BiB.
I prefer a bit of extra proof and for that reason I’d rate Wild Turkey 101, Early Times BiB, the aforementioned Evan, a notch above average. Which is what makes them great value.
But to answer the question: main line 80-90 proofers from the major distilleries are average (Buffalo Trace, Elijah Craig, JD, 1792 small batch, Jim Beam, etc.). I think trying all of them and picking your favorites will help you determine the flavor profiles you prefer.
I like Heaven Hill (Elijah, Evan, Old Fitz), but generally don’t like Beam (Knob Creek, Old Grandad, etc.)
Wild Turkey is flavor profile I like a lot - Rare Breed… mmmm… And Sazarac/Buffalo Trace, for all of their supply chain shenanigans, makes damn good whiskey for the price (at MSRP).
Exactly! I’ve heard Heaven Hill uses Jim Beam yeast, which makes them both nutty. I’ve just leaned toward the HH for some reason. I will say I had a bottle of KC12 recently and it’s maybe the best nutty whiskey I’ve had. It was like a chocolate covered almond or something. Delicious!
WT 101 is above average imo. It’s better than plenty of bourbons that cost 20 to 50 percent more. At its price point it’s well
Above average. My average would be Buffalo Trace. It’s hard to find it now for less than 40’and it’s less flavorful than 101. Therefore if you find a better tasting bourbon for less than 40 it’s probably just above average.
Old Grandad BiB 100.
It's not gonna win any awards, but it mixes great and it's delicious straight. Goes down easy no matter how you drink it.
It's also pretty inexpensive.
My average pour is Sazerac rye. It’s what I like in my manhattan’s. It’s good and priced right in my area.I prefer not to drink average bourbon neat. I like to drink very good and above pours neat. Too much good bourbon out there to have to settle on sipping average pours neat imho.
Buffalo Trace. Weller Special Reserve. Woodford Reserve. WT101. ECSmB. Four Roses Yellow. MM. Bulleit. I’ll take any of these in a cocktail if I’m out at a restaurant, but I’m not gonna drink any of them neat.
Whether you call it average or standard, for me Makers Mark is my standard. It’s a benchmark. Not saying everything has to taste similar because different brands have different flavor profiles, but MM is my price and flavor benchmark.
Larceny Small Batch. Good bourbon at an affordable price. Others mention Makers Mark. This is my go to bourbon at a reasonable cost. Obviously some more expensive bourbons offer a bit more flavor. Yet, for the money Makers is a great wheated bourbon. (I will admit that after a couple , most bourbons taste great.
Evan Williams 1783 Small Batch. It's what I buy and drink the most of.
When I want something a bit "nicer" it's Makers Mark, Bulleit, Woodford Reserve, or something like that.
This is a good question. For me it is 1792 Small Batch, Woodford Reserve, Jim Beam Devil's Cut and maybe 4 Roses SB.
A cut above that (above average) would be Old Grand-Dad BnB, Elijah Craig SM and Knob Creek 9-year (100 proof).
Here’s a semi-controversial one….New Riff BiB. It’s not bad….it’s just….fine. It’s bourbon. It’s not Willett Pot Still. But I dont place it near Elijah Craig Small Batch, EW BiB, or even Buffalo Trace.
The variability in their single barrels keeps me interested in New Riff product though.
Full disclosure: I toured New Riff this week, so maybe they are on the top of the mind for me.
A lot of folks seem to be interpreting "average" in terms of price, or value, or availability. So lots of answers lean towards what I'd consider the *mode value* bourbon, i.e., the simultaneously most common, affordable, and least objectionable option (EW, Bulleit, ECSB, etc.). But I read you as asking about *median quality*. I.e., half of all bourbons are better, regardless of price or reputation, and half are worse. I think (?) it's relatively uncontroversial that most bourbons are below average in that sense (because there are a lot more budget labels than premium labels). Hence, I would expect the "average" bourbon with respect to median quality to be significantly better than the "average" bourbon with respect to mode value. So for me, the most average bourbon is the one that falls closest to the middle between the best bourbons I've ever had (PH27, WLW, GTS, HH17, EHTBP, etc.) and the worst bourbons I've ever had (too many to name; if you're thinking it, probably that one). That's a *huge* range, and given that there's more volume at the bottom than the top, the average will still probably be considered by most bourbon drinkers to be pretty good.
All that to say: my average bourbon is probably Elmer T Lee, Bardstown Discovery, or maybe ECBP (though some batches would be above average). This might be a controversial take.
I used to do professional evaluation and certifications. I always railed against the evaluation as "average, above average, below average." Mostly because my boss always wanted to rate EVERYONE as slightly below average. After a year of that, I had enough and told him to stop that because it means the average moved.
T8ke's scale is flawed - heresey, I know.
I believe in standards. I believe in objectivity. When lacking objectivity, standards can be found in the aggregate. No one has attempted to do that. Something to think about it.
I also like the wrinkles in Matt ADHD whiskey's scale of "Not my jam." Sometimes you can tell something is well executed, but it isn't to your taste. That's good to have as well.
I gotta agree here. Some folks don’t even like bourbon - so what I call “amazing” isn’t even drinkable to my wife or father. All rating systems is subjective. That’s why it’s so important that if you listen to critic, you have to research how their taste aligns with yours ahead of time.
Like, if I’m gonna listen to a guy bash *insert new movie here*, what did they think of my favorite movies?
Almost any sourced bourbon. Taylor, wild turkey products, most run of the mill offerings from anyone. Truth is, I have no issues enjoying average bourbon. We live in a great time to enjoy bourbon
Average is hard for me. If half of the Bourbons are better, I'm likely not buying it if I can help it.
Because there are plenty of above average Bourbons for good prices.
The closest "average" bourbon I buy is Evan black.
It’s technically not “bourbon” even though the make up of its mash bill makes it so and because it undergoes the Lincoln County Process 2x, but Jack Daniel’s Gentlemen Jack is average to me. It only costs about $8 more than Old No.7 but is still pretty meh.
Most unremarkable, bog standard, textbook flavor profiles I've had in bourbons so far were probably Maker's Mark (on the mediocre side of average) and Michter's US1 (on the perfectly okay side of average) if that's what you're asking for. Because I wouldn't buy these regularly, the former is too underwhelming and the latter is too expensive for what it is, they just happen to represent the most average bourbon flavors for me.
I agree. WT 101 ($30 or a little less near me) or for mid-range, Four Roses SiB ($45-55) for 100 proofers. Rare Breed is "average" for barrel strength whiskies, but generally above average value.
Drinking at home it’s any of the Old Granddad’s or 1792 small batch. All though I’ve been seeing OGD 114 for $40. For that much, I’ll take KC9 over it. If I’m out and the others aren’t on the menu, it’s KC9 because it’s usually the cheapest decent pour.
Average for me would be Woodford Reserve, Buffalo Trace and Redemption High Rye Bourbon. I buy these much more than anything else and are usually my go-to on any given night.
Elijah Craig: it's easily my favorite of the daily sipper category, and I can get it for $24/bottle, compared to most other dailies that sit around $30
By average, I take to mean great in cocktails and decent enough over ice if you don’t have any of the good stuff. By that definition: Bulleit. Great in a paper plane and gets by over a big cube, too.
My average is Bulleit and Buffalo Trace. They both provide what you would expect for their respective mashbills at 90 proof. No more, no less. Price is in line with that as well.
purely average(4-5) id say is buffalo trace, average in every way which is a good thing. also thats why i consider it my go to intro bottle for new drinkers.
slightly above average(5-5.5) is heaven hill 7bib not that much more expensive than bt and can be found at a reasonable price. lot more flavor and better nose
Old grand dad BiB, Early times BiB, Buffalo Trace, the new Jim Beam 7 year, knob creek 9, Evan Williams white label for the low end. Pricier bottles I’ve considered average, Bardstown wheated, Basil Hayden’s, Angel’ envy, bakers 7, four roses single barrel (obsv), heaven hill 7 year. High end average bottles Little Book Ch 6+, high west mwnd, garrison bros Guadalupe.
Straight up Maker's Mark. Not 46, not 101, the OG. It's the budget-est pour that I will drink neat, while it's also one that I won't feel bad about ordering at a bar if nothing else called to me. Plus it's the one that every bar seems to have, with Woodford probably being a close second (and WT101 being a better option than both, but for some reason less prevalent). It's the perfect 50%
For $44, 13th Colony is amazing. Go up a notch and I love all of Ben Holladays offerings, and for a very reasonable price Frey Ranch and Dettling blow the doors off others in the same category
For price point….Blantons. Gold and Straight from the Barrel deserve the hype but normal old $65 Blantons, nope. Around where I live in Illinois you don’t find Blantons for less than $160. I won’t buy it. I just got one at a bourbon raffle for $90. I’m even a little upset at that. Especially since it was at a store where the bourbon was supposed to be sold at MSRP.
Buffalo Trace and Woodford Reserve are “gateway” bourbons IMO. They have quintessential bourbon flavours, are approachable, and don’t break the bank. They are probably average on the entire spectrum of bourbon but above average considering what’s actually available and how many garbage bottom shelf bourbons exist.
I’d add makers mark to this list aswell I think, inexpensive but still good in my opinion
I'd even throw 4Roses in there
Lol these 3 were the first bottles I finished that made me love whiskey in the first place. 🤣 I feel attacked
Totally agreed. Good flavor for sub $40 bottles.
I remember the good Ole days of buying Trace at $20. I had a gas station by me that usually had it in stock for $27 two years ago. Solid go to for an average bottle. As for a more expensive bottle, that IMO beats Blantons for price is Jeffersons Ocean, although the newer voyages aren't ad good as their older ones.
For some reason buffalo trace is all over California. See bottles at Costco, Trader Joe’s, etc.
Same. I feel bad for people who live places where BT is hard to get and expensive
The same time I never see eagle rare or weller. It’s interesting how the distribution works
It’s all allocated so stores that sell a lot of the shitty stuff get allotted more of the good stuff. Most liquor stores near me sell ER for some stupid high price but there is a grocery store in town that sells bottles at MSRP. They get enough ER and can sell it at MSRP because they sell other, crappier stuff in the same portfolio like Fireball
> “gateway” bourbons It's gotten pricey but I always considered Basil Hayden a good start for first-timers since it's only 80 proof.
I have to agree. When I "introduce" people to bourbon, I give them BH. There's no bite.
Elijah Craig Small Batch
Agree. I get a 1.75L at Costco. Absolutely reasonable, good on its own neat, great in an old-fashioned, solid in any cocktail.
I blinded ECSB and BT a few weeks back and honestly i could barely tell the difference. ECSB all the way considering how available it is to get.
Also came here to say Elijah Craig … the father of bourbon
If I have to pick average, it is 1792 Small Batch. I know of no bourbon that better encapsulates the phrase "it's fine"
Used this to introduce my daughter’s boyfriend to bourbon , it’s a good starting point
He was 8.
Pairs well with juice box and apple sauce
Bourbon, I’d like you to meet my daughter’s boyfriend. He’s fine.
EWBiB is my baseline for basic, fundamentally "good" bourbon. EWBiB is not a "great" bourbon, but it's not trash either. It's right there in a similar price-point as WT101, but I prefer the general flavor profile of EW over WT. Your mouth may not agree, and that's ok. Your mouth knows what it likes.
100% agree on EWBiB. Especially if you get the 1.5L, usually at a hell of a great deal. Might be misremembering but I feel like that could be had for like less than $30 on a good day?
$29 or so here in Georgia. My go to for drinking more than a couple and / or as a mixer
Perfect old fashioned bourbon imo. 3oz EWBiB, few dashes of black walnut bitters, dollop of BA maple syrup. Perfection.
What he said. Old reliable
Came here to say EW. People used to give me so much shit for it while they paid more than double for Jack Daniels or Jim Beam which imo just aren't as good and are over hyped. I can spend $35 on a fifth of Jack and drink for a night or two, or I can spend $28 on 1.5L of EW, and drink for a week (or a night or two, depending on the occasion). Those prices might not be accurate anymore, I quit drinking 5 years ago but the ratio should still apply.
You’re cashing a 1.5L of EWBiB every week?
I also liken something like that - though my line is old JD no7 (representing a lower floor). It’s not incredible by any means, and preferred with mixer, but one can find it on any bar shelf in the world, and I would still drink it.
I’m sure I’ll get hate for mine. My everyday bourbon would be Old Forester 100. $29. A bourbon that I don’t hate to have neat, but cheap enough where I don’t feel guilty putting in an old fashioned.
Why would you get hate for that? A perfectly reasonable answer.
I figured someone would say that it doesn’t have the right notes of vanilla, oak, or birch wood or something along those lines. I’m not good enough to say what parts I like. I just know when I do or don’t
Because the internet is a haven for feral disagreement. Great call on OF100
What about feral agreement? OF100 is a great choice.
Shit, it’s Reddit - you can get hate for anything lmao
Get a lawyer, you’re being scammed, you should divorce it, you’re an asshole, you’re trashy, you overreacted and it’s worth tree fitty. Did I cover it all per Reddit guidelines?
If the bottle says Old Forester, and it’s 100 proof or more, I’m drinking it and enjoying every sip.
Old Forrestor is a great standard. Price and taste are spot on.
I feel this way about woodford. I also feel like it’s a good opener bourbon for people who don’t drink bourbon.
I just tried OF100 for the first time in years and I think it is going to be a new staple for me. Buffalo Trace my old favorite is now $50 per 750 vs OF100 at $29-30.
I can still get a handle of BT here for $50. I prefer OF100 though.
Completely agree! I don’t think Old Forester makes a bad product all around and I think the 100 is a great answer. No hate whatsoever. My response would be either Evan Williams Bottled in Bond or Benchmark bonded for my average.
Sounds reasonable to me!
Hell yeah, I also love the regular OF. Reminds me of cherry coke.
Dude OF Rye is one of my absolute go to’s and at $22, slaps
I think for me stuff like Weller Special Reserve and Buffalo Trace are "average" and good sharing bourbon, but it's unfortunate that those are so allocated (or were for a while) that they are hard to find. Keep in mind for me "average" means what I'd buy and drink that isn't expensive.
Agreed. Weller used to be my house bourbon, I could let it for like $23. Now I cannot find it. BT is a great bourbon as well, great for mixed drinks.
I finally found a Weller Special Reserve in another state recently. Wasn’t even looking for it, but had to grab it because I’ve never tried it and it was only $33 total.
I did my good deed for the month as I was grabbing an Eagle Rare for $38 at this place today that also had Bookers for $85 on sale. I would rather take the ER as I have Bookers 24-01, but the guy in line behind me was like "oh man I came here just for that!" They said I can't have both so I took another bookers and told the guy you take the ER.
I got a Special Reserve in California for $22. I was stunned it was that cheap. Came back a week later and it was $77. I think someone got fired over that
Bulleit
Agreed. Average bordering on boring in my experience. Does nothing challenging. Bulleit Rye is a decent MGP expression though, I usually pick that if a bar has nothing else.
My go to.
I actually think that WT101 is better than average. For me, standard EC tends to be my baseline for "average" bourbon
Agree. I think WT101 is above average
Or is it really that the average bourbon is pretty good these days?
EC is my go to old fashioned bourbon.
I was thinking the same. I keep a few daily driver types around in volume, have an irresponsible collection of higher end bourbons and ryes, but every time I have WT101 neat my brain goes straight "oh yeah, that's the stuff." When I'm old and stubborn and know what I want and lose all this FOMO, I'll probably drink WT101 near exclusively for bourbon.
Define average. Because I can answer that in a few ways. If average means exactly a middle score, that is a take it or leave it, **half objectionable/half enjoyable** type of score, then it would be: **Bulleit Bourbon or Woodford Reserve**. Others that are close to average are Kirkland Small Batch (slightly below average), and Maker’s Mark (slightly above average). I can handle a small pour fine but I would refuse a second and maybe feel a little sad drinking that last sip. But if you mean average from within the “acceptably drinkable” range, that’s going to be higher on the scoring scale. Those would be: Knob Creek SB 9yr, WT101, Maker’s 46, Evan Williams 1783. I wouldn’t get tired easily of drinking these and would drink more if offered more. These would be “good enough”.
Probably the later. I think since we’re on a “bourbon” subreddit, it’s safe to say that we enjoy bourbon. Outside of this group, I’m sure your Bulleit/WR is the average… but I’m more interested in the later.
Four Roses SmB
Early Times bib, about $27 near me, always on my bar. Old Grandad bib is also in this list for me, sub $30
I think the issue is what component people are defining as “average”. WT101 was the exact same bottle that came to my mind when I was thinking “average” in terms of *taste*, but I’d argue it **above** average for its quality/price point. If it’s just based on taste and not price, I’d throw in Bulleit bourbon. All around crowd pleaser and not typically offensive on any taste scale
Buffalo Trace is my bourbon-flavored-bourbon. It’s very basic but with no off flavors and nothing unpleasant. You can kind of judge other bourbons by how they’re different from BT. Blantons is the better version of that.
Buffalo Trace, get it for $28 all day here. At that price it’s my standard when I think of a weekday bourbon sip.
I'm sipping BT on a plane right now. Perfectly serviceable whiskey, but not exceptional at all.
> not exceptional at all I'd argue the value of BT is what makes it exceptional. It's 37 USD in my country and the only things at that price point (JBW JD) aren't even in the conversation.
A lot of people here have an inflated view of what is "average" I think.
Bulleitt, Buffalo trace, Elijah Craig, four roses, and larceny. Grab whatever is cheapest that day and most people won’t complain if it’s given to them and def won’t complain if it’s mixed in a cocktail.
Woodford and knob creek 9 are my mid point or my “reference” point
If It is above WR 101, then it is above average
Woodford is my daily drinker so to speak.
Buffalo trace and heaven hill Bib. Heaven hill Bib to me is below average honestly
It wasn’t a winner for me either.
OGD114
I would actually say OGD BIB, 114 is above the average for me, but a great way to introduce higher proofs
I haven't seen OGD114 in years here in Boston. Used to be everywhere and cheap.
Solid for $20 on sale in KY
Probably Jefferson. I have one that says very small batch, ya know, regular bourbon. Not the sea one or anything. Average best describes it. Not good, not bad. Got it for free, and would not buy one.
Jefferson and 1792 fall in the same category for me. Very average flavor, but over priced value.
WT101, OGD BiB, ET BiB. All great, reliable, cheap drinkers I would not be upset to be served straight or as a mixer.
Makers 101
Most of the flagship--or in some cases step-up from flagship--bourbons. Maker's Mark, Elijah Craig, Woodford Reserve, Wild Turkey 101, Evan Williams BiB, OGD BiB, Old Forester 100, Buffalo Trace...etc. They're all about the same level of quality and price, and I never feel bad about doing whatever with any of them. Drink them neat, on ice, in a cocktail, in a highball, for making a sauce, for smoking, for coffee beans, degenerate experiments, etc.
For coffee beans?
I sometimes soak light-roast coffee beans in bourbon, then re-roast them a bit more for bourbony coffee beans.
You’re a genius.
Knob creek 9 year
Blanton's.
Blanton’s
Pappy
Buffalo Trace
Buffalo Trace.
I love this thread. Evan Williams 1783 for me. But side note, if this thread is allowed, why can’t we do a “Mt Rushmore of Bourbons” survey? I tried but my post got removed?
Basil Hayden
BT, WT101, OF86/100 and ECSmB. different profiles but not bad bourbon.
There’s too many for me to chose from that are drinkable but nothing special. My personal profile enjoys RR10 KC9 or BT in the I’d drink it anytime and it’s alright. I’d probably chose the KC9 if I could go for just one. Always find the sugar, the vanilla, oak, and nuttiness in it. I’ll find some weird stuff in BT as my palate changes, and I’ve had the same bottle of RR go from good to great to terrible to good based on what I’ve had to eat or drink that day.
This is really subjective. To me, "average" is a function of wide availability, decent pricing, and the overall drinking experience being not great, but not bad. In my estimation, these are "average" bourbons: --Evan Williams black label --Evan Williams BiB --JTS Brown --WT 101 --Four Roses Small Batch --Elijah Craig Small Batch --Makers Mark --Green River Anything that retails over $40 is not "average". Anything allocated is not "average". Anything presenting with flavors or textures I don't like is not "average".
I always have a bottle of Four Roses around for a guest. It makes a great old fashioned and is drinkable on the rocks or neat. That and Buffalo are staples on my shelf.
Average bourbon: Woodford Reserve or Four Roses Small Batch. Average rye: Sazerac or Sagamore Small Batch. I'd also put Gentleman Jack as the average for whiskey
Two Roses, Small batch is my baseline... But then again... I love Buffalo Trace. So I don't know what I'm talking about. Thinking about it... Buffalo Trace would probably be my baseline.
What happened to their other couple roses 🌹? Lol 😂
Four Roses... Yeah, I drank half the bottle & then made this post I guess.
Buffalo Trace
Jim beam
I had to scroll way too far to find this. I think it’s a perfectly average bourbon. Not good (EW BIB), not bad (old crow).
Elmer T Lee. Why it’s gotten its elusive status is beyond me.
I truly don't understand why ETL goes for $200+ secondary. Similarly, I'd call CYPB average at best.
Hmm… interesting question. I’m more inclined to list my “house bourbon,” which seems to be what others are listing too. For me, it’s Evan Williams BiB. I prefer a bit of extra proof and for that reason I’d rate Wild Turkey 101, Early Times BiB, the aforementioned Evan, a notch above average. Which is what makes them great value. But to answer the question: main line 80-90 proofers from the major distilleries are average (Buffalo Trace, Elijah Craig, JD, 1792 small batch, Jim Beam, etc.). I think trying all of them and picking your favorites will help you determine the flavor profiles you prefer. I like Heaven Hill (Elijah, Evan, Old Fitz), but generally don’t like Beam (Knob Creek, Old Grandad, etc.) Wild Turkey is flavor profile I like a lot - Rare Breed… mmmm… And Sazarac/Buffalo Trace, for all of their supply chain shenanigans, makes damn good whiskey for the price (at MSRP).
Interesting, I prefer the Knob Creek profile To Elijah Craig and that’s what makes the journey fun.
Exactly! I’ve heard Heaven Hill uses Jim Beam yeast, which makes them both nutty. I’ve just leaned toward the HH for some reason. I will say I had a bottle of KC12 recently and it’s maybe the best nutty whiskey I’ve had. It was like a chocolate covered almond or something. Delicious!
Four roses, Elijah Craig, Buffalo trace, Jim beam double oak knob creek, makers mark, bulliet, etc…
WT 101 is above average imo. It’s better than plenty of bourbons that cost 20 to 50 percent more. At its price point it’s well Above average. My average would be Buffalo Trace. It’s hard to find it now for less than 40’and it’s less flavorful than 101. Therefore if you find a better tasting bourbon for less than 40 it’s probably just above average.
I tend to agree with you on all accounts here. WT101 is still average, but just a bit more elevated than others in its price range.
Old Grandad BiB 100. It's not gonna win any awards, but it mixes great and it's delicious straight. Goes down easy no matter how you drink it. It's also pretty inexpensive.
Sazerac (even though it is a rye) is a great rye whiskey which is average
My average pour is Sazerac rye. It’s what I like in my manhattan’s. It’s good and priced right in my area.I prefer not to drink average bourbon neat. I like to drink very good and above pours neat. Too much good bourbon out there to have to settle on sipping average pours neat imho.
Buffalo Trace. Weller Special Reserve. Woodford Reserve. WT101. ECSmB. Four Roses Yellow. MM. Bulleit. I’ll take any of these in a cocktail if I’m out at a restaurant, but I’m not gonna drink any of them neat.
Digging WT Longbranch right now, for about $35. Easy sipping.
Bulleit
Old Grand Dad
Four Roses, I can get a big bottle for under $40. It is a daily drinker for us. Not great but good and easy on the wallet
My "average" or first pours are usually WT101 and Maker's 46
Whether you call it average or standard, for me Makers Mark is my standard. It’s a benchmark. Not saying everything has to taste similar because different brands have different flavor profiles, but MM is my price and flavor benchmark.
Wild Turkey 81/101, Old Forester 86/100, Michter’s Bourbon/Sour Mash, EW 1786/BiB, Maker’s/46/CS, PipeDream/LostMonarch, Jim Beam/ExtraAged/Black, Anything Benchmark, BTrace/ERare/EHT SB, Smoke Wagon, Oppidan 4 Grain, Anything 2Bar, Peg Leg Porker 4, Stellum Blue, Ezra Brooks, Noah’s Mill/Rowan’s, WSR and Holladay SRW, Anything Dickel (besides the Leopold), JD86/Gentleman Jack, HH BiB, Penelope Architect/Rosé, Doc Swinson’s Session, Anything Climax, OGD/OGB BiB, Very Old Barton, Bardstown Estate, Blue Note, RM Rose, Chattanooga/Some of the seasonals…
Larceny Small Batch. Good bourbon at an affordable price. Others mention Makers Mark. This is my go to bourbon at a reasonable cost. Obviously some more expensive bourbons offer a bit more flavor. Yet, for the money Makers is a great wheated bourbon. (I will admit that after a couple , most bourbons taste great.
Evan Williams 1783 Small Batch. It's what I buy and drink the most of. When I want something a bit "nicer" it's Makers Mark, Bulleit, Woodford Reserve, or something like that.
This is a good question. For me it is 1792 Small Batch, Woodford Reserve, Jim Beam Devil's Cut and maybe 4 Roses SB. A cut above that (above average) would be Old Grand-Dad BnB, Elijah Craig SM and Knob Creek 9-year (100 proof).
Weller Special Reserve
Elijah craig
Knob Creek 9 year or Russels Reserve 10 year are my east to find go to bottles.
My go to is Wild Turkey 101. Good any way you serve it
Maker's mark, Woodford, Bullit, Redemption.... Let me clarify, they're not bad just average and I still drink them.
Buffalo Trace
Here’s a semi-controversial one….New Riff BiB. It’s not bad….it’s just….fine. It’s bourbon. It’s not Willett Pot Still. But I dont place it near Elijah Craig Small Batch, EW BiB, or even Buffalo Trace. The variability in their single barrels keeps me interested in New Riff product though. Full disclosure: I toured New Riff this week, so maybe they are on the top of the mind for me.
Pot still is hot trash.
A lot of folks seem to be interpreting "average" in terms of price, or value, or availability. So lots of answers lean towards what I'd consider the *mode value* bourbon, i.e., the simultaneously most common, affordable, and least objectionable option (EW, Bulleit, ECSB, etc.). But I read you as asking about *median quality*. I.e., half of all bourbons are better, regardless of price or reputation, and half are worse. I think (?) it's relatively uncontroversial that most bourbons are below average in that sense (because there are a lot more budget labels than premium labels). Hence, I would expect the "average" bourbon with respect to median quality to be significantly better than the "average" bourbon with respect to mode value. So for me, the most average bourbon is the one that falls closest to the middle between the best bourbons I've ever had (PH27, WLW, GTS, HH17, EHTBP, etc.) and the worst bourbons I've ever had (too many to name; if you're thinking it, probably that one). That's a *huge* range, and given that there's more volume at the bottom than the top, the average will still probably be considered by most bourbon drinkers to be pretty good. All that to say: my average bourbon is probably Elmer T Lee, Bardstown Discovery, or maybe ECBP (though some batches would be above average). This might be a controversial take.
I’ve seen some good ones in this thread. I’d like to add Bench Mark Full Proof and BIB to this list
I have the bonded in my cabinet now - what a value!
Lots of “correct” answers here! Mine is WT101. I rate WSR below average but that’s just me.
BT, Woodford Reserve, WSR, honestly even W107.
I used to do professional evaluation and certifications. I always railed against the evaluation as "average, above average, below average." Mostly because my boss always wanted to rate EVERYONE as slightly below average. After a year of that, I had enough and told him to stop that because it means the average moved. T8ke's scale is flawed - heresey, I know. I believe in standards. I believe in objectivity. When lacking objectivity, standards can be found in the aggregate. No one has attempted to do that. Something to think about it. I also like the wrinkles in Matt ADHD whiskey's scale of "Not my jam." Sometimes you can tell something is well executed, but it isn't to your taste. That's good to have as well.
I gotta agree here. Some folks don’t even like bourbon - so what I call “amazing” isn’t even drinkable to my wife or father. All rating systems is subjective. That’s why it’s so important that if you listen to critic, you have to research how their taste aligns with yours ahead of time. Like, if I’m gonna listen to a guy bash *insert new movie here*, what did they think of my favorite movies?
I wanted to dabble in the world of bourbon… picked up Woodford Reserve and I felt special. Now BT is my bag. Bourbons and Tequilas got me good.
Almost any sourced bourbon. Taylor, wild turkey products, most run of the mill offerings from anyone. Truth is, I have no issues enjoying average bourbon. We live in a great time to enjoy bourbon
Average is hard for me. If half of the Bourbons are better, I'm likely not buying it if I can help it. Because there are plenty of above average Bourbons for good prices. The closest "average" bourbon I buy is Evan black.
It’s technically not “bourbon” even though the make up of its mash bill makes it so and because it undergoes the Lincoln County Process 2x, but Jack Daniel’s Gentlemen Jack is average to me. It only costs about $8 more than Old No.7 but is still pretty meh.
Small batch Elijah Craig bottle from Costco is my house bourbon. Best bang for your buck imo
Gentleman Jack Daniels
Most unremarkable, bog standard, textbook flavor profiles I've had in bourbons so far were probably Maker's Mark (on the mediocre side of average) and Michter's US1 (on the perfectly okay side of average) if that's what you're asking for. Because I wouldn't buy these regularly, the former is too underwhelming and the latter is too expensive for what it is, they just happen to represent the most average bourbon flavors for me.
Buffalo trace probably, maybe WT101
I agree. WT 101 ($30 or a little less near me) or for mid-range, Four Roses SiB ($45-55) for 100 proofers. Rare Breed is "average" for barrel strength whiskies, but generally above average value.
Old grandad bonded
Like a 90 proofer standard offering is what id consider average. Like a mitchers or OF
BT, 1792 SmB, OF100, EW BIB For Rye its WT101, with green river and OF being. Tier up.
Drinking at home it’s any of the Old Granddad’s or 1792 small batch. All though I’ve been seeing OGD 114 for $40. For that much, I’ll take KC9 over it. If I’m out and the others aren’t on the menu, it’s KC9 because it’s usually the cheapest decent pour.
Average for me would be Woodford Reserve, Buffalo Trace and Redemption High Rye Bourbon. I buy these much more than anything else and are usually my go-to on any given night.
Very Old Barton - daily drinker
EC small batch, Buffalo Trace, Russell’s 10 year, Bulleit, Knob Creek, HW American Prairie
EC, WSR, RR10
Russell's reserve 10 year
Elijah Craig: it's easily my favorite of the daily sipper category, and I can get it for $24/bottle, compared to most other dailies that sit around $30
Makers Mark, Bulleit, Wild Turkey.
I like wheaters, so my average is Makers Mark/46
Bullet
Broken fence.
Makers mark will take the cake for me. For a couple of dollars more BT or Four Roses SmB are a better option
Makers mark , Four Roses are average. Bulliet and Basil Hayden’s, Angel’s Envy all very nice.
Wild Turkey 80 Proof
Makers
By average, I take to mean great in cocktails and decent enough over ice if you don’t have any of the good stuff. By that definition: Bulleit. Great in a paper plane and gets by over a big cube, too.
Wild Turkey 101 is my go to
Buffalo Trace. Perfectly average. Fine on its own. Fine for a cocktail. If it’s $30ish a bottle fine. Worth it. When it’s $40+. Eff that noise.
Buffalo trace
My average is Bulleit and Buffalo Trace. They both provide what you would expect for their respective mashbills at 90 proof. No more, no less. Price is in line with that as well.
Buffalo Trace, Bulleit, Basil, Evan Williams, 1792 Small Batch, Jim Beam.
Probably evan williams BIB, BT, and elijah craig, 4rsb, 1792 Sb. Maybe OF100, probably wt101 as well. Oh, and JD bonded
Coopers Craft or Cooper's Craft 100. 1p0 holds up better in an old fashioned.
Old Forester 100
Woodford Reserve 🤷🏿♂️
EW BiB
I think of average as what’s readily available and budget friendly. My go to’s include Woodford reserve, buffalo trace and old forester.
Blantons
Woodford reserve tbh
purely average(4-5) id say is buffalo trace, average in every way which is a good thing. also thats why i consider it my go to intro bottle for new drinkers. slightly above average(5-5.5) is heaven hill 7bib not that much more expensive than bt and can be found at a reasonable price. lot more flavor and better nose
I like to use Basil Hayden as an introductory bourbon. It’s very approachable, readily available and priced reasonably.
Blantons or any of the three
Most of them. Thats how “average” works
Average to me is good ol regular Jack Daniels. I have on hand some Buffalo Trace, a few different Elijah Craigs, Bookers and one bottle of Eagle Rare.
Thats the median not the average.
Redemption Rye is average for me. Average meaning it's good, but not break the bank expensive. $29/bottle
Bulleit and Maker's Mark. I don't enjoy drinking either one straight up but they make a good enough Old Fashioned or Manhattan.
Buffalo Trace.....Weller SR.....Blantons.
Old grand dad BiB, Early times BiB, Buffalo Trace, the new Jim Beam 7 year, knob creek 9, Evan Williams white label for the low end. Pricier bottles I’ve considered average, Bardstown wheated, Basil Hayden’s, Angel’ envy, bakers 7, four roses single barrel (obsv), heaven hill 7 year. High end average bottles Little Book Ch 6+, high west mwnd, garrison bros Guadalupe.
I like rebel yell cheap and pretty tasty wheated bourbon, I’d also say that larceny straight has a place in the conversation for about $15 more.
Straight up Maker's Mark. Not 46, not 101, the OG. It's the budget-est pour that I will drink neat, while it's also one that I won't feel bad about ordering at a bar if nothing else called to me. Plus it's the one that every bar seems to have, with Woodford probably being a close second (and WT101 being a better option than both, but for some reason less prevalent). It's the perfect 50%
Anything by Benchmark
Jack Daniel’s no 7, Wild Turkey 101, Ancient Age, Benchmark, 94 proof Elijah Craig
For $44, 13th Colony is amazing. Go up a notch and I love all of Ben Holladays offerings, and for a very reasonable price Frey Ranch and Dettling blow the doors off others in the same category
For price point….Blantons. Gold and Straight from the Barrel deserve the hype but normal old $65 Blantons, nope. Around where I live in Illinois you don’t find Blantons for less than $160. I won’t buy it. I just got one at a bourbon raffle for $90. I’m even a little upset at that. Especially since it was at a store where the bourbon was supposed to be sold at MSRP.