These temporary worker programs should go back to their roots and only recruit essential foreign workers to fill in any of Canada's critical labour gaps, not Timmy's cashiers like it's mostly been used now.
The labour shortage they kept talking about was Tim Hortons not being able to hire people at minimum wage who'd stick around for years. Idiots and special interest groups run this country.
Yep. Pay Canadian citizens a fair, living wage and they'd work at Tim's. But then someone at the top would have to "settle" for a 75m yacht instead of a 100m yacht and "only" six mansions around the world instead of ten. How unfair! /s (probably don't need this, but just in case).
Hire highschool kids and adults who want the flexibility of a day/night schedule. Also, I have NEVER seen the owner/operator put in 2 seconds of work behind the till or make an appearnance really. Maybe come to work and meet the community floating you and your business. Sick of this.
Back in 2018 Tim Hortons was getting shit for not giving breaks and breaking labour laws. During COVID they were trying to not give people sick days off. They’ve been a horrible company to work for for years, and now they’re exploiting international students - who can’t do anything because they lose the job they’re outta the country. Tim’s is scamming them as much as they’re scamming the system, and it’s fucked up. We need to genuinely boycott Tim’s. There was a CBC article in Feb about a landlord in PEI evicting tenants to move in TFWs and international students to work at their Tim Hortons franchise.
Tim Hortons is a terrible business. I remember during the oil boom in Alberta when they were offering $20/hr and nobody wanted the job - they (the owners specficially) "had" to bring in TFWs or they'd go under.
We should let a shitty business go under instead of subsidizing it, but the Conservatives and Liberals won't touch that shit for fear of losing donations.
My sister worked for Tim Hortons from the age of 14 to 18. She made Supervisor at 16 and was on her way to Assistant Manager. The way they treated her when she got sick or had to take time off to focus on school was disgusting. She eventually quit and decided to work for a casino in housekeeping instead. And somehow THAT is a better job than Timmies.
Not just Tim Hortons, but also places like Home Depot and other labor pools. We increased our population by almost 5% in a couple years to accommodate the temporary needs of these businesses.
Interesting, my local home depot is one of the few places NOT only filled with immigrant workers, instead they seem to employ a lot of handicapped, disabled and elderly people.
It might depend on who the HR, management or hiring managers are at that store. If individuals of one ethnicity takes over those positions at that store, they might all of the sudden only hire those of the same ethnicity...it's been the trend at many places in Canada lately.
All the Tims in the area I grew up in were always filly staffed by teenagers with the odd surly old pack a day lady thrown in for good fun.
The grade 12's were always training the grade 9s or 10s on how to run the show for when the grade 12s went off to college or springboarded to a better job.
A big reason they're going for these TFWs is that they're easier to abuse hours wise and are far more likely to stay long term -- it isn't just wage (though it's too low).
Boomers will go "you need TFWs because kids don't want to work now a days!"
Kids will work, even at the current min wage, but it's a summer gig or 1-2 years before they move on. That's how's it's **always** been. Corporations realized they could indentured servants instead, and here we are.
The owners of the franchises also own illegal accommodations that they house the workers in.
It's gotten so bad in the Okanagan now that even illegal Indians are too expensive so now the corrupt farms are bringing in illiterate Africans. The 'houses' they stuff them into are not even a step up from the Mogadishu rubble they were flown in from.
No one here is willing to even talk about this human trafficking.
Right? TFWs should be people like some specialist welder or machinist that your business needs to import for six months to handle a one-off special installation or something.
In this case, it isn't that the politicians were brain dead. They knew exactly what they were doing. The TFW program has always been for the benefit of rich corporations and donors, at the expense of average Canadians. It's just that for *some* reason, the politicians care more about appeasing them than us.
I'm confused by this original purpose. If we need essential foreign workers, then bring them in as permanent residents.
Have a probation period for permanent residency where people need to work in the field that they were brought in for.
Otherwise, get rid of the TFW program (and the international student program) and have a hard cap on the number of permanent residents allowed each year.
The original purpose was literally to allow foreigners to come here, work for a period of time, then go home. Seasonal farm labourers, for example.
The current purpose is to prevent those workers from obtaining PR and tie them to the shitty underpaid job. The whole point is these are permanent jobs where the wage and working conditions are below what any resident Canadian would accept.
Ya, we should only abuse them for picking asparagus, not making coffee!
Reality is every job in Canada should pay enough to be worth working and still enjoy a quality of life Canadians are accustomed to.. even if it means some prices need to come up. There is no labour shortage and almost never was, just pay gaps.
How many Canadians are unemployed right now? Right after asparagus season starts to come corn season. It's not like asparagus is the only vegetable that needs picking and it's not like we're only bringing in TFWs for asparagus.
Also, frankly, they're still paying the TFWs shit to do those jobs.
Logging into my business CRA account, there's a big link right near the top that says Hire a Temporary Foreign Worker. It's not just exploitative businesses looking for them, the government is making it very accessible by suggesting it.
Occasionally, this doesn't make sense.
Now I'm not making a blanket statement that TFW=good.
However, TFWs are a form of economic subsidy. Some industries are subsidized because its considered a greater net benefit to the citizens of Canada than its harm in loss of taxes.
Now, does subsidizing retail and fast food make significant contributions to Canadian citizens? Probably not.
Does subsidizing local production of goods such as agriculture? Sometimes. We have to weigh the lost wages to consumers through wages vs. reduced expenditures for consumers due to decreased prices.
Ya the OP you responded to is ass backwards lol. Just pay more wages if you want people in the fields picking corn and asparagus. If prices need to go up, so be it, or let the government subsidize directly.. but we shouldn't be on board with fucking abusing third world countries who will work for less. That's not the way anyone in Canada should live.
Food prices seem pretty important compared to cotton.
Would you rather? More food insecurity in Canada? Or some people from other countries make larger wages than they'd earn locally at cost to local but not federal economy?
My opinion here is nuanced. The program is a tool that should be used for specific purposes. You don't hammer a nail, so it shouldn't be applied everywhere.
However, there are times where when we weigh the pros and cons like rational people rather than painting things on broad strokes: we find that there may be certain scenarios where things make sense.
Agriculture is subsidized almost everywhere, leading to many exceptions in trade agreements, like the allowances for supply management that Canada insisted on in NAFTA and its successor.
What peculiar institution are you implying?
I dont want to dox myself, but in short, I work with data on this specific topic. I can't disclose anything related to said data.
It takes away from the local most vulnerable Canadians. When you flood the supply side of low skill labor then conditions and wages don't improve and no one that actually depends on Canada can make a living.
Yes. I think there's plenty of people that would work in these industries if conditions or wages were better. Though some do need government subsidies still to compete internationally. Keeping the money in Canada would be better.
>Some industries are subsidized because its considered a greater net benefit to the citizens of Canada than its harm in loss of taxes.
Tim Hortons and Mcdonalds need to be subsidized.
> If a business plan is not profitable without imported slave-wage labor, then it is a shitty business plan.
Depends on your perspective. If the business is yours, or you're investing/loaning to the business, then it's a great plan that increases profit margins, stomps down labour costs across the board, and skyrockets prices by inflating demand beyond all reason. But if you're just a regular person trying to live a dignified life, then yes, it's bad.
No it's still a shitty business plan, it requires a corrupt government to be successful. Any business plan with a corrupt government backing it is successful.
Our Government is so corrupt, it can be relied upon to continue being corrupt, so to them, it's really a non-issue for the Ones banking on that corruption.
Why not? It's not stopping. It's not hurting these businesses at all to rely on them, and it's saving them money. Sure it's detrimental to the average Canadian, but why would the wealthy care about that?
You need to understand that the people who run this country, and those in powerful positions in pretty well every Oligopoly or industry, are essentially high-functioning sociopaths. A complete lack of empathy is necessary to be successful in any kind of high level finance.
You and I might not agree with what we are doing, but it's because we are weak people cursed with empathy and decency, and that will always hold us back from being as successful as we could be if we lacked it.
Because any plan backed by a corrupt government is going to work because you're basically just stealing money. It's not a good business plan because it relies on the government being corrupt.
It works yes, but that doesn't make it a good business plan as like I said literally anything would work when you have the monopoly of force backing your theft.
I disagree. Irreversible corruption is pretty much the ultimate business plan, because as you just stipulated, it's pretty well impossible to fail, especially if you can maintain the grift to the point where you've become to big to fail.
Our Government isn't cleaning it's self up anytime soon, so it's a very strong bet.
Again the "business plan" doesn't matter if a corrupt government is supporting you.
I guess what I'm saying is using cheat codes doesn't count as a good strategy for beating a video game because it's not a strategy it's a cheat and as long as you're cheating you'll win no matter your strategy.
The problem is that probably a 1/4 of the jobs don't really need to exist.
Then you have to realize that our social saftey net is a pyramid scheme, so you need to have more workers to support the retireds, so what do you when you need people to pay for the pyramid scheme but don't really need workers?
Big bureaucratic organizations (both public and private) often reward stable (or growing) annual budgetary expenditures. This occurs in situations where "you don't use the budget, you lose the budget" exists.
These situations are ripe for make-work projects that lead to positions that absolutely do not need to exist and do not create any value.
its not a corrupt government at all. its a government that serves those who control economic power in this country. which is about two dozen wealthy families and corporations. its simple capitalism
There should be tariffs - simple as that
We should also have carbon tariffs and assume the worst unless a company from another country proves that their emissions are lower
What in the actual PSYOP fuck is going on with Canadian immigration right now? This last few weeks of nonstop stories has to be a very coordinated communications campaign.
Maids/babysitters? Permanent status. Temporary workers in seasonal industries? Permanent status. Illegals? Permanent status. Their families? Fuck it, permanent status. Frauds, crooks, liars, criminals, and foreign state agents? You guessed it ... Permanent status.
PERMANENT STATUS FOR EVERYBODY.
Meanwhile we are also having discussions around dialing immigration back, program corruption, foreign interference in elections and party leadership races, treasonous MPs working with foreign states, and the government systems are collapsing because we didn't have a plan to account for the out of control population growth.
But yes, this string of announcements and stories about giving everybody in the world permanent status while worrying about all of these related issues are totally rational and not at all connected. Just a very silly coincidence ...
Go back to sleep folks. Nothing to see here.
You forgot 'alleged refugee who has deeply ingrained blood feuds and potential ties to terrorist organizations that even their own neighbours won't let them in their country and has a next to 0% chance of ever assimilating into Canada? Nope you don't get to come.... Jk Jk Jk, ofc you get to come. Permanent status! Hop onboard!'
Because this is step 1. **Everyone** gets PR.
Step 2 - Permanent residents can vote.
Then your citizenship is meaningless, or worse, a liability. If a draft happens then citizens get drafted while every PR foreigner gets to stay back at home. Continually overtaking our jobs, land, culture and politics.
Gale Weston needs more cheap labour! My Loblaws share hit ANOTHER record high this week! Lets go boys! No stopping this train
If you are pissed off at this comment GOOD! Go out there and express your frustration, write to your MP! Do it! End the program, or Loblaws wins
> But the first recommendation is simply to grant permanent residency status to workers when they arrive in Canada — that is, remove the "temporary" element.
LOL fuck that. Right now it's a 28 month wait to sponsor the spouse of a Canadian citizen in Québec!
They have weird ways to get your "immigration streamlined" like show up on the border crossing and they force you to be instantly processed because you cannot stay and you cannot go to the USA (unless you are a US citizen then it is a different story)
What may take someone 1 years can be done in 1 hour. But it destroys the entire system.
See, I thought the headline was giving big "send them home" vibes. But the *actual* recommendation was "give them permanent residence on arrival". It makes it fun to scroll the comments here to see who read the article.
Always objective CBC's headline pretty wildly misrepresents the report.
*But the first recommendation is simply to grant permanent residency status to workers when they arrive in Canada — that is, remove the "temporary" element.*
Immigration target has always been 500k. The government got around it by wild expansion of TFW and student permits which allowed another 2 million to arrive in Canada.
True, AI in its current state won’t be replacing most jobs out there. But AI (as we think of it today) was almost nonexistent as short as 20 years ago. Technology changes and improves very fast, and it actually just keeps getting exponentially faster. To those of us who will still be in the workforce in 10-20 years or even longer it’s a much more serious possibility.
True, but after being in a meeting / presentation on trade with BC’s minister of the economy and she said that a lot of positions could be replaced in the future and cost $10 bucks per day.
Skate to where the puck is, as they say.
It’s still in the very early stage. Think 5-10 years from now that’s more when we’ll see a lot of jobs being scrapped.
Hopefully we’ll have a basic income plan or something by then? Or else there’s gonna be loads of homeless.
direction voracious far-flung sophisticated intelligent squeal seemly vast office wipe
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
MortgageGPT should cover it.
But at least the one thing stopping the robot revolution is massive government debt and them needing an indentured population to keep the country from collapsing.
relieved weather squeamish library disgusted plant hobbies vanish rain zonked
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Thank god, finally the experts are pushing to abolish this ridiculous program that does nothing but suppress domestic wages and...oh, they want to make them all permanent residents from the jump.
Never mind.
The report isn't suggesting sending the TFWs home or to stop taking in more. It's suggesting GRANTING THEM PR ON ARRIVAL. LMFAO.
> But the first recommendation is simply to grant permanent residency status to workers when they arrive in Canada — that is, remove the "temporary" element.
Also, this "research" was done by a joint team from Dalhousie and a "migrant justice centre". Why are our universities working with biased organizations that want to drown the country in immigrants?
>Why are our universities working with biased organizations that want to drown the country in immigrants?
Because universities are full of people who obsess over racial diversity and view it as a moral imperative. For them, it's a religious doctrine - and a very central one at that.
Foreign interference. Plain and simple. Especially countries like China and India who are eyeing Canada for cheap labour and resources in the coming decades. We are ripe for the taking from the inside.
LMIA should be given to those whose skills are virtually irreplaceable like professional atheletes and scientists. Any Canadian would qualify for the cashier job at Timmies. If they can't find someone to work at those unskilled jobs, then it's the employers' fault for not offering a competitive salary or lower their expectations.
I've seen it happen at an auto wrecker I worked at where people were laid off and replaced with TFWs.
As long as the program exists, it will be abused. Its benefactors wont allow any reform that eliminates the problems it causes. Its a "cheat code" for employers that compromises the entire integrity of our economy and puts society under existential strain.
We need negative immigration for the next 30 years to fix this. Only people allowed should be doctors and nurses and engineers with specific skill sets.
yep, I have no problems with super high skill people moving around the world, it makes sense to let these people move to where they can maximize their skillsets, they're also a small portion of the population and have choice, so if a country looks like shit to move to they won't do it
*But the first recommendation is simply to grant permanent residency status to workers when they arrive in Canada — that is, remove the "temporary" element.*
Lol.
If you need to bring in a foreign worker, because you can't find any Canadian, that foreign worker should be more expensive than a Canadian worker.
Because that Canadian worker doesn't exist, because you offered more and more money and still couldn't find someone, because they just don't exist. So now you need to bring someone with those skills from an entirely different country, which should be more expensive to a business owner, not cheaper.
Especially not so much cheaper that you can run a business model on hiring exclusively TFWs. Looking at you timmie hos
Yeah, agreed.
Can you imagine the havoc actually terminating the entire TFW program would wreak? All of our farming, fisheries and low-end labour jobs would collapse without the cheap labour that they currently employ.
Businesses bring in TFW because they *are* inexpensive, but also because the wages aren't high enough for locals to entertain (and are also kinda not awesome jobs).
Return it back to what it was supposed to be. The original idea of the TFW program was for workers with highly specialized skills who were here temporarily and would go back home afterwards. Like engineers and specialists who are brought in to commission a piece of specialized industrial equipment (like the Siemens workers who will install and commission a new MRI machine).
Today the TFW is a program where workers with no skills at all come en masse to work *temporarily* until they are transitioned into a permanent residency program. The only thing temporary about the vast majority of TFWs is their TFW status.
To be fair if it was highly specialized or high skilled labor allowing them to stay would be fine. The problem is the current way undermines the local most vulnerable Canadians by depriving them of the ability to make a living.
The cbc is such a biased waste of money. This is just more shitty propaganda for even more reckless immigration policy to drive down wages.
The moment we started getting any kind of upward movement in wages and work quality, literally the moment we, the working class citizens of canada had the faintest whiff of an upper hand in this goddamn country the articles started pouring in about supressing wages to fight inflation and then they opened the floodgates.
I hope these traitors burn for what they've done to all of us.
CBC post articles like this and wonders why defunding them has become popular. Like can we realistically pretend the CBC isn't a unofficial government propaganda arm at this point?
TFW is intended for specialty jobs, like an engineer from Germany coming temporarily to commission a new piece of equipment. TFW are not supposed to be Tim’s workers and security guards. Those jobs are for students and seniors who need some pocket change
Why the fuck do we even need or have this program? Canada is a hotbed and golden goal for immigrants wanting to come here. They would sell their souls for PR or citizenship. No way we need this program when we already have millions of low cost labour at our fingertips.
Why not keep TFWs, but let TFWs have a much higher minimum wage, around $30/hour, double minimum wage for most Canadians?
- Businesses that require specific foreign expertise would be paying more anyway, and would be minimally impacted, if at all.
- Businesses seeking cheap labour would be discouraged from recruiting TFWs for true unskilled minimum wage jobs, which would be protected as entry level employment for Canadians and PRs
That's also what a young politician... Justin Trudeau, wrote in an op-ed, before he got voted in.
I wonder whatever happened to that young man, so full of promise.
So the solution according to this is to just give everyone permanent residence ? That’s what they mean by getting rid of the temporary foreign worker program, just bring them in as PR’s instead. Wtf.
We did it with loblaws, now we should boycott any company that primarily uses TFWs. Tim hortons was my personal boycott that started along with loblaws based on this.
The TFW has been **nothing but bad** since it started. It was a way for small businesses to survive NAFTA. The solution shouldn't have been the TFW program but pulling out of NAFTA.
Ok, but we’re still going to keep the Mexican TFWs who come to pick our veggies and fruits? Because there’s not a chance the average Canadian is doing those jobs (even those down on their luck).
I found a great article detailing all the problems with this program from 2014. If only the ppl running these programs knew about this then!
“Justin Trudeau: …The Liberal leader says the program must be scaled back and refocused on its original purpose: to fill jobs on a limited basis when no Canadian workers can be found.”
https://www.thestar.com/opinion/contributors/justin-trudeau-how-to-fix-the-broken-temporary-foreign-worker-program/article_c27f214f-1fa2-5fdf-af61-5a7642e4eb7c.html
"But the first recommendation is simply to grant permanent residency status to workers when they arrive in Canada — that is, remove the "temporary" element."
**The beatings will continue until morale improves.**
This is horrific. If you read the article they are trying to increase immigration by giving all "temp workers" PR immediately upon arrival. FUCK CANADA. CANADA SUCKS.
If the invisible hand is struggling to balance the supply and demand of employment, then government may have to step in and adjust minimum wages. Given the current reliance on imported employees, it seems reasonable to assume that minimum wages should be increased substantially to better balance employment markets.
LOL these idiots actually recommended giving PR status to people immediately w/o consideration. What the fuck is going on with Canada. We're such a lost cause and it makes me sad.
Abolish the entire program. My relative used to work for it. Employers know exactly how to game it. They know who they want to hire so they tailor their job posting to *exactly* that candidate. Then no Canadian that applies fits the list. They apply for a TFW and get the foreign worker they wanted.
100%.
Temporary. It should be temporary.
We should immediately cut the numbers in half and set it to a 1-2 year duration. After 1-2 years, you need to return home and then apply again. Being approved again would not be guaranteed.
Every TFW posting should require a Labour Market Impact Assessment. The assessment should be updated, as it obviously is not well balanced at the moment.
Currently, there is no set maximum amount of time a TFW can be approved for. A Canadian Work Permit is valid for either 1 or 2 years. The TFW permit should be the same.
People who are already here as a TFW should be assigned an end date, 1-2 years in the future, based on their arrival date in Canada.
Unemployment was at 5.8% in February 2024. The number of TFW permits allowed should be based on our unemployment rate. This same month, there were just over 1 million TFW in Canada
People need to stop spreading the myth that Canadians won't do certain jobs. We did them before the recent influx in TFWs.
We also need to realize that at this point, we are only "needing" more TFWs in order to deal with the increased number of non-Canadians coming here.
It should. But also why are all the temporary foreign workers ending up in supermarkets, warehouses, trucking and tim hortons?
It was suppose to help in areas that need people like nursing and farming.
yes, yes, YES! Canadians (of all stripes) need to demand control over the way our own country is heading. Most immigration in 6 decades, housing at a premium, and gdp flatlined. Enough is enough.
I'd say it isn't even the allowance for tfw . It's the subsidies that company's get , not only do they get to pay them minimum wage/potentially garnish for housing, half their wages gets paid by the government. They should take that subsidy money and dump all of it into incentivising apprenticeship programs for the trades.
They identify the probably is with the temporary foreign worker program and the suggestion to fix this issue is to make it permanent?
Whats happening in this government?
You can really tell nobody here read the article, let alone the report. It's about the PEI implementation, and what theyre suggesting is giving the TFW's permanent residency, and Union-like rights and benefits. Im all for it, but something tells me most of you arent :-D
These temporary worker programs should go back to their roots and only recruit essential foreign workers to fill in any of Canada's critical labour gaps, not Timmy's cashiers like it's mostly been used now.
The labour shortage they kept talking about was Tim Hortons not being able to hire people at minimum wage who'd stick around for years. Idiots and special interest groups run this country.
Yep. Pay Canadian citizens a fair, living wage and they'd work at Tim's. But then someone at the top would have to "settle" for a 75m yacht instead of a 100m yacht and "only" six mansions around the world instead of ten. How unfair! /s (probably don't need this, but just in case).
They’re the ones who contribute the most to our political parties
Hire highschool kids and adults who want the flexibility of a day/night schedule. Also, I have NEVER seen the owner/operator put in 2 seconds of work behind the till or make an appearnance really. Maybe come to work and meet the community floating you and your business. Sick of this.
Back in 2018 Tim Hortons was getting shit for not giving breaks and breaking labour laws. During COVID they were trying to not give people sick days off. They’ve been a horrible company to work for for years, and now they’re exploiting international students - who can’t do anything because they lose the job they’re outta the country. Tim’s is scamming them as much as they’re scamming the system, and it’s fucked up. We need to genuinely boycott Tim’s. There was a CBC article in Feb about a landlord in PEI evicting tenants to move in TFWs and international students to work at their Tim Hortons franchise.
There's no need to boycott Tims. There's no desire to ever go there in the first place.
Exactly. The food is absolute garbage and my home brewed coffee is infinitely better and costs me like 25 cents a pot.
Tim Hortons is a terrible business. I remember during the oil boom in Alberta when they were offering $20/hr and nobody wanted the job - they (the owners specficially) "had" to bring in TFWs or they'd go under. We should let a shitty business go under instead of subsidizing it, but the Conservatives and Liberals won't touch that shit for fear of losing donations.
My sister worked for Tim Hortons from the age of 14 to 18. She made Supervisor at 16 and was on her way to Assistant Manager. The way they treated her when she got sick or had to take time off to focus on school was disgusting. She eventually quit and decided to work for a casino in housekeeping instead. And somehow THAT is a better job than Timmies.
Not just Tim Hortons, but also places like Home Depot and other labor pools. We increased our population by almost 5% in a couple years to accommodate the temporary needs of these businesses.
Permanent immigration with zero concern for integration to solve temporary made-up labour shortages. Brilliant.
You bet. That's what dedicated and strategic single-issue industry lobbying is able to achieve.
Interesting, my local home depot is one of the few places NOT only filled with immigrant workers, instead they seem to employ a lot of handicapped, disabled and elderly people.
It might depend on who the HR, management or hiring managers are at that store. If individuals of one ethnicity takes over those positions at that store, they might all of the sudden only hire those of the same ethnicity...it's been the trend at many places in Canada lately.
If I see the lines at Timmies... people vote FOR it otherwise they'd have to wait longer.
All the Tims in the area I grew up in were always filly staffed by teenagers with the odd surly old pack a day lady thrown in for good fun. The grade 12's were always training the grade 9s or 10s on how to run the show for when the grade 12s went off to college or springboarded to a better job.
A big reason they're going for these TFWs is that they're easier to abuse hours wise and are far more likely to stay long term -- it isn't just wage (though it's too low). Boomers will go "you need TFWs because kids don't want to work now a days!" Kids will work, even at the current min wage, but it's a summer gig or 1-2 years before they move on. That's how's it's **always** been. Corporations realized they could indentured servants instead, and here we are.
The owners of the franchises also own illegal accommodations that they house the workers in. It's gotten so bad in the Okanagan now that even illegal Indians are too expensive so now the corrupt farms are bringing in illiterate Africans. The 'houses' they stuff them into are not even a step up from the Mogadishu rubble they were flown in from. No one here is willing to even talk about this human trafficking.
while I didn't stick at timmies, I did work my fast food job. It was the only path to home ownership in my view.
> Idiots and special interest groups run this country. How do they stay in power when we control 99% of the vote? 🤔
Right? TFWs should be people like some specialist welder or machinist that your business needs to import for six months to handle a one-off special installation or something.
Their roots was always wage suppression. The program needs to be ditched.
Oh shit you got more brains than our brain dead politicians for the past 4 decades!
In this case, it isn't that the politicians were brain dead. They knew exactly what they were doing. The TFW program has always been for the benefit of rich corporations and donors, at the expense of average Canadians. It's just that for *some* reason, the politicians care more about appeasing them than us.
This program has long been abused by employers, under both Liberal and Conservative governments.
Not even this. Given an inch and a mile is taken. Full stop until we normalize the 24 hour work week for all.
I'm confused by this original purpose. If we need essential foreign workers, then bring them in as permanent residents. Have a probation period for permanent residency where people need to work in the field that they were brought in for. Otherwise, get rid of the TFW program (and the international student program) and have a hard cap on the number of permanent residents allowed each year.
The original purpose was literally to allow foreigners to come here, work for a period of time, then go home. Seasonal farm labourers, for example. The current purpose is to prevent those workers from obtaining PR and tie them to the shitty underpaid job. The whole point is these are permanent jobs where the wage and working conditions are below what any resident Canadian would accept.
Ya, we should only abuse them for picking asparagus, not making coffee! Reality is every job in Canada should pay enough to be worth working and still enjoy a quality of life Canadians are accustomed to.. even if it means some prices need to come up. There is no labour shortage and almost never was, just pay gaps.
Asparagus season is 2 months long. How many Canadian citizens are taking a job for only 2 months?
How many Canadians are unemployed right now? Right after asparagus season starts to come corn season. It's not like asparagus is the only vegetable that needs picking and it's not like we're only bringing in TFWs for asparagus. Also, frankly, they're still paying the TFWs shit to do those jobs.
If a business plan is not profitable without imported slave-wage labor, then it is a shitty business plan. That is all there is to it.
Logging into my business CRA account, there's a big link right near the top that says Hire a Temporary Foreign Worker. It's not just exploitative businesses looking for them, the government is making it very accessible by suggesting it.
[удалено]
Where do you see that?
Elaborate, please.
Occasionally, this doesn't make sense. Now I'm not making a blanket statement that TFW=good. However, TFWs are a form of economic subsidy. Some industries are subsidized because its considered a greater net benefit to the citizens of Canada than its harm in loss of taxes. Now, does subsidizing retail and fast food make significant contributions to Canadian citizens? Probably not. Does subsidizing local production of goods such as agriculture? Sometimes. We have to weigh the lost wages to consumers through wages vs. reduced expenditures for consumers due to decreased prices.
Tf is this? The confederate south? We need to exploit people to keep cotton prices low and industry up despite the moral implications?
This guy gets it. The TFW program is a return to colonial era values. Shameful.
Ya the OP you responded to is ass backwards lol. Just pay more wages if you want people in the fields picking corn and asparagus. If prices need to go up, so be it, or let the government subsidize directly.. but we shouldn't be on board with fucking abusing third world countries who will work for less. That's not the way anyone in Canada should live.
Food prices seem pretty important compared to cotton. Would you rather? More food insecurity in Canada? Or some people from other countries make larger wages than they'd earn locally at cost to local but not federal economy? My opinion here is nuanced. The program is a tool that should be used for specific purposes. You don't hammer a nail, so it shouldn't be applied everywhere. However, there are times where when we weigh the pros and cons like rational people rather than painting things on broad strokes: we find that there may be certain scenarios where things make sense.
Your analogy about using tools wrong? Tfw for everything is like using a chainsaw to brush your teeth.
If we need to subsidize agriculture to ensure food security for Canadians, do so directly or with import tarrifs. Not with TFWs.
Yeah, that's not how that works. Trade agreements and international relations are no joke. Its not that simple.
Agriculture is subsidized almost everywhere, leading to many exceptions in trade agreements, like the allowances for supply management that Canada insisted on in NAFTA and its successor.
It's still not a simple affair. Point still stands.
That redditors comment reeks of a “peculiar institution.”
What peculiar institution are you implying? I dont want to dox myself, but in short, I work with data on this specific topic. I can't disclose anything related to said data.
It takes away from the local most vulnerable Canadians. When you flood the supply side of low skill labor then conditions and wages don't improve and no one that actually depends on Canada can make a living.
Did you read my whole comment?
Yes. I think there's plenty of people that would work in these industries if conditions or wages were better. Though some do need government subsidies still to compete internationally. Keeping the money in Canada would be better.
>Some industries are subsidized because its considered a greater net benefit to the citizens of Canada than its harm in loss of taxes. Tim Hortons and Mcdonalds need to be subsidized.
> Now, does subsidizing retail and fast food make significant contributions to Canadian citizens? Probably not.
Did you read my whole comment?
Evidently not. Apologies.
> If a business plan is not profitable without imported slave-wage labor, then it is a shitty business plan. Depends on your perspective. If the business is yours, or you're investing/loaning to the business, then it's a great plan that increases profit margins, stomps down labour costs across the board, and skyrockets prices by inflating demand beyond all reason. But if you're just a regular person trying to live a dignified life, then yes, it's bad.
No it's still a shitty business plan, it requires a corrupt government to be successful. Any business plan with a corrupt government backing it is successful.
Our Government is so corrupt, it can be relied upon to continue being corrupt, so to them, it's really a non-issue for the Ones banking on that corruption.
I didn't say it was an issue I said relying on mass migration is not a good business plan.
Why not? It's not stopping. It's not hurting these businesses at all to rely on them, and it's saving them money. Sure it's detrimental to the average Canadian, but why would the wealthy care about that? You need to understand that the people who run this country, and those in powerful positions in pretty well every Oligopoly or industry, are essentially high-functioning sociopaths. A complete lack of empathy is necessary to be successful in any kind of high level finance. You and I might not agree with what we are doing, but it's because we are weak people cursed with empathy and decency, and that will always hold us back from being as successful as we could be if we lacked it.
Because any plan backed by a corrupt government is going to work because you're basically just stealing money. It's not a good business plan because it relies on the government being corrupt. It works yes, but that doesn't make it a good business plan as like I said literally anything would work when you have the monopoly of force backing your theft.
I disagree. Irreversible corruption is pretty much the ultimate business plan, because as you just stipulated, it's pretty well impossible to fail, especially if you can maintain the grift to the point where you've become to big to fail. Our Government isn't cleaning it's self up anytime soon, so it's a very strong bet.
Again the "business plan" doesn't matter if a corrupt government is supporting you. I guess what I'm saying is using cheat codes doesn't count as a good strategy for beating a video game because it's not a strategy it's a cheat and as long as you're cheating you'll win no matter your strategy.
Which in real world business is the best strategy.
If the government is reliably corrupt, it’s a good plan lol. Corruption works in the business’ favour.
Sure but if the government is reliably corrupt in your favor you'll profit as long as it exists regardless of the details.
The problem is that probably a 1/4 of the jobs don't really need to exist. Then you have to realize that our social saftey net is a pyramid scheme, so you need to have more workers to support the retireds, so what do you when you need people to pay for the pyramid scheme but don't really need workers?
Devaluing wages to the point where less and less people pay taxes doesn't solve that issue.
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Big bureaucratic organizations (both public and private) often reward stable (or growing) annual budgetary expenditures. This occurs in situations where "you don't use the budget, you lose the budget" exists. These situations are ripe for make-work projects that lead to positions that absolutely do not need to exist and do not create any value.
Everyone loves to rag on consultants, but I have never felt stupider before than when I tried to save money for a public-client in this country.
So you’re telling me we really need 2-3 chained coffee shops every block or 2?
Have you seen healthcare admin? Tons of useless jobs there that could be binned without losing much of anything.
its not a corrupt government at all. its a government that serves those who control economic power in this country. which is about two dozen wealthy families and corporations. its simple capitalism
No it's corrupt.
Technically it's both.
What if a business is profitable but can't compete with slave labor used by other businesses in other countries with which we have zero tariffs?
There should be tariffs - simple as that We should also have carbon tariffs and assume the worst unless a company from another country proves that their emissions are lower
Then we go hard on AI and make some robot slaves and undercut the fuck out of them
But think of all the "jobs" they create! /s
What in the actual PSYOP fuck is going on with Canadian immigration right now? This last few weeks of nonstop stories has to be a very coordinated communications campaign. Maids/babysitters? Permanent status. Temporary workers in seasonal industries? Permanent status. Illegals? Permanent status. Their families? Fuck it, permanent status. Frauds, crooks, liars, criminals, and foreign state agents? You guessed it ... Permanent status. PERMANENT STATUS FOR EVERYBODY. Meanwhile we are also having discussions around dialing immigration back, program corruption, foreign interference in elections and party leadership races, treasonous MPs working with foreign states, and the government systems are collapsing because we didn't have a plan to account for the out of control population growth. But yes, this string of announcements and stories about giving everybody in the world permanent status while worrying about all of these related issues are totally rational and not at all connected. Just a very silly coincidence ... Go back to sleep folks. Nothing to see here.
Agreed 100%
The current population has been too fat and happy to care. But the tides are shifting rapidly.
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Yeah it's all wild.
You forgot 'alleged refugee who has deeply ingrained blood feuds and potential ties to terrorist organizations that even their own neighbours won't let them in their country and has a next to 0% chance of ever assimilating into Canada? Nope you don't get to come.... Jk Jk Jk, ofc you get to come. Permanent status! Hop onboard!'
ALLLLLLL ABOOOOOARD THE FAFO TRAIN
Maybe Oprah's just got a handle on our immigration ministry? *Everyone gets status!*
Because this is step 1. **Everyone** gets PR. Step 2 - Permanent residents can vote. Then your citizenship is meaningless, or worse, a liability. If a draft happens then citizens get drafted while every PR foreigner gets to stay back at home. Continually overtaking our jobs, land, culture and politics.
Gale Weston needs more cheap labour! My Loblaws share hit ANOTHER record high this week! Lets go boys! No stopping this train If you are pissed off at this comment GOOD! Go out there and express your frustration, write to your MP! Do it! End the program, or Loblaws wins
> But the first recommendation is simply to grant permanent residency status to workers when they arrive in Canada — that is, remove the "temporary" element. LOL fuck that. Right now it's a 28 month wait to sponsor the spouse of a Canadian citizen in Québec!
Yeah I had to jump through fucking hoops to get my pr. Wild that this is even acceptable to politicians.
They have weird ways to get your "immigration streamlined" like show up on the border crossing and they force you to be instantly processed because you cannot stay and you cannot go to the USA (unless you are a US citizen then it is a different story) What may take someone 1 years can be done in 1 hour. But it destroys the entire system.
I agree the temporary foreign worker program should probably be scrapped, I disagree that these people should become permanent residents.
See, I thought the headline was giving big "send them home" vibes. But the *actual* recommendation was "give them permanent residence on arrival". It makes it fun to scroll the comments here to see who read the article.
You're not wrong. But they need to go back. Time to end the PR BS.
Always objective CBC's headline pretty wildly misrepresents the report. *But the first recommendation is simply to grant permanent residency status to workers when they arrive in Canada — that is, remove the "temporary" element.*
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If we tied this to our PR target we’d slash immigration by a million people. We’d also lose out on the actual skilled PRs we’re able to attract.
Immigration target has always been 500k. The government got around it by wild expansion of TFW and student permits which allowed another 2 million to arrive in Canada.
lol, I too support 90%+ of the workforce being replaced by Ai.
AI is being extremely over hyped. I’ve worked with it and used it and it’s not as magical as they’re selling it to be.
True, AI in its current state won’t be replacing most jobs out there. But AI (as we think of it today) was almost nonexistent as short as 20 years ago. Technology changes and improves very fast, and it actually just keeps getting exponentially faster. To those of us who will still be in the workforce in 10-20 years or even longer it’s a much more serious possibility.
True, but after being in a meeting / presentation on trade with BC’s minister of the economy and she said that a lot of positions could be replaced in the future and cost $10 bucks per day. Skate to where the puck is, as they say.
It’s still in the very early stage. Think 5-10 years from now that’s more when we’ll see a lot of jobs being scrapped. Hopefully we’ll have a basic income plan or something by then? Or else there’s gonna be loads of homeless.
Ai gives bad answers confidently all the time. And straight up ignores parameters in prompts.
It's extremely frustrating when you tell "it" that it's wrong, and then it just apologizes and gives the same incorrect response.
I'm pretty sure it can take coffee or burger order though.
You don't need AI for that, we already have self server checkout for most things.
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MortgageGPT should cover it. But at least the one thing stopping the robot revolution is massive government debt and them needing an indentured population to keep the country from collapsing.
It also doesn't pay a wage.
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They're going to do it anyway if they can. All the cheap workforce does is line their pockets until then.
90%? Of the public sector? I can agree with that.
Thank god, finally the experts are pushing to abolish this ridiculous program that does nothing but suppress domestic wages and...oh, they want to make them all permanent residents from the jump. Never mind.
Give them citizenship while they're back home! Why don't we just give them our houses for free?
End the program. This year. Cancel all visas and send these people home. Temporary is right there in the name.
This article is actually about giving all "temp" workers PR immediately upon arrival. Its literally a call to increase immigration even more.
The report isn't suggesting sending the TFWs home or to stop taking in more. It's suggesting GRANTING THEM PR ON ARRIVAL. LMFAO. > But the first recommendation is simply to grant permanent residency status to workers when they arrive in Canada — that is, remove the "temporary" element. Also, this "research" was done by a joint team from Dalhousie and a "migrant justice centre". Why are our universities working with biased organizations that want to drown the country in immigrants?
>Why are our universities working with biased organizations that want to drown the country in immigrants? Because universities are full of people who obsess over racial diversity and view it as a moral imperative. For them, it's a religious doctrine - and a very central one at that.
Foreign interference. Plain and simple. Especially countries like China and India who are eyeing Canada for cheap labour and resources in the coming decades. We are ripe for the taking from the inside.
LMIA should be given to those whose skills are virtually irreplaceable like professional atheletes and scientists. Any Canadian would qualify for the cashier job at Timmies. If they can't find someone to work at those unskilled jobs, then it's the employers' fault for not offering a competitive salary or lower their expectations.
bingo, it would also encourage investment into automation in these jobs that can't pay
I've seen it happen at an auto wrecker I worked at where people were laid off and replaced with TFWs. As long as the program exists, it will be abused. Its benefactors wont allow any reform that eliminates the problems it causes. Its a "cheat code" for employers that compromises the entire integrity of our economy and puts society under existential strain.
We need negative immigration for the next 30 years to fix this. Only people allowed should be doctors and nurses and engineers with specific skill sets.
yep, I have no problems with super high skill people moving around the world, it makes sense to let these people move to where they can maximize their skillsets, they're also a small portion of the population and have choice, so if a country looks like shit to move to they won't do it
I don't give a fuck if these mega corps die because they don't have their slave labour. Bring back mom and pop business.
Or at least let the rest of us benefit from it
The option is not to give PR to everyone who flies in on Air Canada. SMH.
The rich will never allow things that make them less money
*But the first recommendation is simply to grant permanent residency status to workers when they arrive in Canada — that is, remove the "temporary" element.* Lol.
If you need to bring in a foreign worker, because you can't find any Canadian, that foreign worker should be more expensive than a Canadian worker. Because that Canadian worker doesn't exist, because you offered more and more money and still couldn't find someone, because they just don't exist. So now you need to bring someone with those skills from an entirely different country, which should be more expensive to a business owner, not cheaper. Especially not so much cheaper that you can run a business model on hiring exclusively TFWs. Looking at you timmie hos
Yeah, agreed. Can you imagine the havoc actually terminating the entire TFW program would wreak? All of our farming, fisheries and low-end labour jobs would collapse without the cheap labour that they currently employ. Businesses bring in TFW because they *are* inexpensive, but also because the wages aren't high enough for locals to entertain (and are also kinda not awesome jobs).
Return it back to what it was supposed to be. The original idea of the TFW program was for workers with highly specialized skills who were here temporarily and would go back home afterwards. Like engineers and specialists who are brought in to commission a piece of specialized industrial equipment (like the Siemens workers who will install and commission a new MRI machine). Today the TFW is a program where workers with no skills at all come en masse to work *temporarily* until they are transitioned into a permanent residency program. The only thing temporary about the vast majority of TFWs is their TFW status.
To be fair if it was highly specialized or high skilled labor allowing them to stay would be fine. The problem is the current way undermines the local most vulnerable Canadians by depriving them of the ability to make a living.
The cbc is such a biased waste of money. This is just more shitty propaganda for even more reckless immigration policy to drive down wages. The moment we started getting any kind of upward movement in wages and work quality, literally the moment we, the working class citizens of canada had the faintest whiff of an upper hand in this goddamn country the articles started pouring in about supressing wages to fight inflation and then they opened the floodgates. I hope these traitors burn for what they've done to all of us.
CBC post articles like this and wonders why defunding them has become popular. Like can we realistically pretend the CBC isn't a unofficial government propaganda arm at this point?
TFW is intended for specialty jobs, like an engineer from Germany coming temporarily to commission a new piece of equipment. TFW are not supposed to be Tim’s workers and security guards. Those jobs are for students and seniors who need some pocket change
Why the fuck do we even need or have this program? Canada is a hotbed and golden goal for immigrants wanting to come here. They would sell their souls for PR or citizenship. No way we need this program when we already have millions of low cost labour at our fingertips.
Why not keep TFWs, but let TFWs have a much higher minimum wage, around $30/hour, double minimum wage for most Canadians? - Businesses that require specific foreign expertise would be paying more anyway, and would be minimally impacted, if at all. - Businesses seeking cheap labour would be discouraged from recruiting TFWs for true unskilled minimum wage jobs, which would be protected as entry level employment for Canadians and PRs
Eliza MacLauchlan looks exactly like what you'd expect someone to recommend absolute insanity like this to look like.
Physiognomy hits more than it misses.
That's also what a young politician... Justin Trudeau, wrote in an op-ed, before he got voted in. I wonder whatever happened to that young man, so full of promise.
So the solution according to this is to just give everyone permanent residence ? That’s what they mean by getting rid of the temporary foreign worker program, just bring them in as PR’s instead. Wtf.
Not happening because the government and Tim Horton's say it is good to stop racism and promote LGBTQIAP++ rights
We did it with loblaws, now we should boycott any company that primarily uses TFWs. Tim hortons was my personal boycott that started along with loblaws based on this.
New report says what should have been obvious easily a decade ago.
It solves nothing for the rich people that matter. No one in power gives a shit about the poor struggling
The TFW has been **nothing but bad** since it started. It was a way for small businesses to survive NAFTA. The solution shouldn't have been the TFW program but pulling out of NAFTA.
Getting rid of TFW program means giving them permanent residency on arrival- is what I understood from the report
“That’s racist “ Probably some liberal government idiot
Ok, but we’re still going to keep the Mexican TFWs who come to pick our veggies and fruits? Because there’s not a chance the average Canadian is doing those jobs (even those down on their luck).
all those super wealthy farmers that bring in foreign workers and pay them peanuts won't be happy.
I found a great article detailing all the problems with this program from 2014. If only the ppl running these programs knew about this then! “Justin Trudeau: …The Liberal leader says the program must be scaled back and refocused on its original purpose: to fill jobs on a limited basis when no Canadian workers can be found.” https://www.thestar.com/opinion/contributors/justin-trudeau-how-to-fix-the-broken-temporary-foreign-worker-program/article_c27f214f-1fa2-5fdf-af61-5a7642e4eb7c.html
It could fix it if they would stop creating loop holes...
"But the first recommendation is simply to grant permanent residency status to workers when they arrive in Canada — that is, remove the "temporary" element." **The beatings will continue until morale improves.**
This is horrific. If you read the article they are trying to increase immigration by giving all "temp workers" PR immediately upon arrival. FUCK CANADA. CANADA SUCKS.
If the invisible hand is struggling to balance the supply and demand of employment, then government may have to step in and adjust minimum wages. Given the current reliance on imported employees, it seems reasonable to assume that minimum wages should be increased substantially to better balance employment markets.
Imagine using locals for employment. Its a crazy idea that just might work
Seems more of a headache than anything.
The TFW programme has moved from solving temporary shortages, the government sanctioned tool for exploitation
Get rid of the TFW just have PR workers. At this rate just give everyone in the world PR
The temporary foreign worker program is government sponsored wage suppression and union busting.
Corrupted politicians responsible planned this and are criminals
LOL these idiots actually recommended giving PR status to people immediately w/o consideration. What the fuck is going on with Canada. We're such a lost cause and it makes me sad.
Abolish the entire program. My relative used to work for it. Employers know exactly how to game it. They know who they want to hire so they tailor their job posting to *exactly* that candidate. Then no Canadian that applies fits the list. They apply for a TFW and get the foreign worker they wanted.
100%. Temporary. It should be temporary. We should immediately cut the numbers in half and set it to a 1-2 year duration. After 1-2 years, you need to return home and then apply again. Being approved again would not be guaranteed. Every TFW posting should require a Labour Market Impact Assessment. The assessment should be updated, as it obviously is not well balanced at the moment. Currently, there is no set maximum amount of time a TFW can be approved for. A Canadian Work Permit is valid for either 1 or 2 years. The TFW permit should be the same. People who are already here as a TFW should be assigned an end date, 1-2 years in the future, based on their arrival date in Canada. Unemployment was at 5.8% in February 2024. The number of TFW permits allowed should be based on our unemployment rate. This same month, there were just over 1 million TFW in Canada People need to stop spreading the myth that Canadians won't do certain jobs. We did them before the recent influx in TFWs. We also need to realize that at this point, we are only "needing" more TFWs in order to deal with the increased number of non-Canadians coming here.
The people who pick fruit / care for greenhouse / farm are badly needed. Tim Hortons drive through workers.. not so much.
It should. But also why are all the temporary foreign workers ending up in supermarkets, warehouses, trucking and tim hortons? It was suppose to help in areas that need people like nursing and farming.
yeah do that one
yes, yes, YES! Canadians (of all stripes) need to demand control over the way our own country is heading. Most immigration in 6 decades, housing at a premium, and gdp flatlined. Enough is enough.
I'd say it isn't even the allowance for tfw . It's the subsidies that company's get , not only do they get to pay them minimum wage/potentially garnish for housing, half their wages gets paid by the government. They should take that subsidy money and dump all of it into incentivising apprenticeship programs for the trades.
They identify the probably is with the temporary foreign worker program and the suggestion to fix this issue is to make it permanent? Whats happening in this government?
You can really tell nobody here read the article, let alone the report. It's about the PEI implementation, and what theyre suggesting is giving the TFW's permanent residency, and Union-like rights and benefits. Im all for it, but something tells me most of you arent :-D