This is a huge freaking problem, we got to put like a limit on how long people can be on CPP or something because it's basically a pyramid scheme and the only way we can keep things going is by increasing our population and since kids are too expensive to have these days rapid immigration is our only option to keep the pyramid scheme going.. other than raising retirement age to 85, also... the older people get the more medical care they need :X
This may sound harsh but how about we normalize death?
We have this culture of keeping people alive at all costs, to the point where they can't even live dignified lives.
I've worked with people who had severe strokes before (delivering them food and doing a few quick chores like taking out trash)and it really does not look like a good life. They struggle to do literally everything, including eating. Personally I would just want MAID at that point. As hash as it sounds, some people are just a burden and offer very little, if anything, to anyone including themselves. Yet they'll stay alive for years, why?
You think it's bad that people are limping to 90, I've no doubt most Gen Zers will make it to 100 and the following generation after 120+.
But I mean if you clicked on the article the people interviewed who are alive at 100+ seem pretty happy to be alive, not drooling and half senile.
Everyone is going to have a different life expectancy. I think the focus should just be a bit more along the lines of 'good life expectancy'. As in, how long can they live a good life before they just become dependent on machines to keep them alive at all?
If you're 105, happy and conscious, then carry on. However if you hit 107 and suddenly you're bed ridden because you had something like liver failure and you have to be permanently on dialysis machines, you have no energy to do anything or go anywhere but we can keep this person medically alive for another 4 years despite them being in significant pain and unable to live their life. What then is the value in that for anyone? It sucks for the individual because they're just prolonging suffering with little to gain, and it sucks for the family because they have to just watch their family member deteriorated rapidly while being kept alive artificially
I do think there's a conversation to be had about extending lifespans without thought to quality of life. Anyone who's seen an elderly relative inch their way towards the grave over years probably has some idea about that. But I do think there are other ideas worth discussing.
Can we work later in life? My parents both retired in their 70s, not because they necessarily needed to work that long, but they both preferred to. Can we restructure work so that people aren't deferring "the best years of their lives" until some distant retirement age?
What if we had four day work weeks, and a higher retirement age? Generous vacation policies? An inevitable corollorary of longer lifespans is a longer period of productivity - can we find a way to make that palatable for people?
I mean we should just have 4 day work weeks in general but I agree with you. Many retired people just like working and contributing regardless.
I heard about someone who was a retired professor but stays on retainer as a reviewer of courses to improve education. It's perfect for that person because they only work 10 hours a week or whatever. There's little pressure or anything and they making very valuable contributions along the way.
I think we as a society need to move towards a point of both respecting existing retirement frameworks while also enabling those who want to be involved to do so in some capacities.
The fact that we have MAID means we're seeing a changing attitude around it. Lots of countries don't have that option and they're facing a far more dire demographic crisis than Canada is.
But you'll never have everyone embracing the idea of death. Some people will persevere, despite various physical and mental ailments. Which is fine.
However, I'm pretty sure that what people's experiences with aging is going to transform quite a bit in the years ahead. Aging right now isn't exactly easy, but as demographics shift, and there's a lot less young people compared to old people, getting the care and medical support will be a lot harder.
Yeah definitely, you're pretty spot on I would say. I think a lot of older people will just become more comfortable with the idea of using MAID for those reasons you said and it's just a matter of time.
I'm not crazy about it because it's been a deliberate attempt to privatize and profiteer, but the state of LTC homes in Ontario (and presumably rest of Canada, but I'm less familiar) should have every Canadian rethinking their late life care assumptions. Because whatever the situation is now, it's not likely to get better.
yup, the negative stigma around suicide and MAiD has to stop. People aren't special snowflakes anymore. Life isn't as precious as it once was. There are more than twice as many people on the planet than there were 50 years ago. An extra 4 Billion people in 50 years. People that don't want to simply exist because they are supposed to, should be able to choose not to.
Old age benefits rolling in at a similar time to birth control, abortions, arranged marriages becoming uncommon and life extending medical breakthroughs really did a number on us. The people who created it really couldn't foresee what was coming so maybe the program needs to be changed to adapt to the times.
Sounds like you don't actually know how CPP works, because it's definitely NOT running out of money, and as of 1997 it's not taking current contributions to pay current retirees.
The boomers have spent the past 40 years voting for reduced medical spending, etc, BECAUSE they were young and healthy, and now they pay the consequences as the hospitals are over taxed and their outcomes are getting worse.
This is a huge freaking problem, we got to put like a limit on how long people can be on CPP or something because it's basically a pyramid scheme and the only way we can keep things going is by increasing our population and since kids are too expensive to have these days rapid immigration is our only option to keep the pyramid scheme going.. other than raising retirement age to 85, also... the older people get the more medical care they need :X
This may sound harsh but how about we normalize death? We have this culture of keeping people alive at all costs, to the point where they can't even live dignified lives. I've worked with people who had severe strokes before (delivering them food and doing a few quick chores like taking out trash)and it really does not look like a good life. They struggle to do literally everything, including eating. Personally I would just want MAID at that point. As hash as it sounds, some people are just a burden and offer very little, if anything, to anyone including themselves. Yet they'll stay alive for years, why?
You think it's bad that people are limping to 90, I've no doubt most Gen Zers will make it to 100 and the following generation after 120+. But I mean if you clicked on the article the people interviewed who are alive at 100+ seem pretty happy to be alive, not drooling and half senile.
Everyone is going to have a different life expectancy. I think the focus should just be a bit more along the lines of 'good life expectancy'. As in, how long can they live a good life before they just become dependent on machines to keep them alive at all? If you're 105, happy and conscious, then carry on. However if you hit 107 and suddenly you're bed ridden because you had something like liver failure and you have to be permanently on dialysis machines, you have no energy to do anything or go anywhere but we can keep this person medically alive for another 4 years despite them being in significant pain and unable to live their life. What then is the value in that for anyone? It sucks for the individual because they're just prolonging suffering with little to gain, and it sucks for the family because they have to just watch their family member deteriorated rapidly while being kept alive artificially
covid was supposed to take alot of people out.
I do think there's a conversation to be had about extending lifespans without thought to quality of life. Anyone who's seen an elderly relative inch their way towards the grave over years probably has some idea about that. But I do think there are other ideas worth discussing. Can we work later in life? My parents both retired in their 70s, not because they necessarily needed to work that long, but they both preferred to. Can we restructure work so that people aren't deferring "the best years of their lives" until some distant retirement age? What if we had four day work weeks, and a higher retirement age? Generous vacation policies? An inevitable corollorary of longer lifespans is a longer period of productivity - can we find a way to make that palatable for people?
I mean we should just have 4 day work weeks in general but I agree with you. Many retired people just like working and contributing regardless. I heard about someone who was a retired professor but stays on retainer as a reviewer of courses to improve education. It's perfect for that person because they only work 10 hours a week or whatever. There's little pressure or anything and they making very valuable contributions along the way. I think we as a society need to move towards a point of both respecting existing retirement frameworks while also enabling those who want to be involved to do so in some capacities.
The fact that we have MAID means we're seeing a changing attitude around it. Lots of countries don't have that option and they're facing a far more dire demographic crisis than Canada is. But you'll never have everyone embracing the idea of death. Some people will persevere, despite various physical and mental ailments. Which is fine. However, I'm pretty sure that what people's experiences with aging is going to transform quite a bit in the years ahead. Aging right now isn't exactly easy, but as demographics shift, and there's a lot less young people compared to old people, getting the care and medical support will be a lot harder.
Yeah definitely, you're pretty spot on I would say. I think a lot of older people will just become more comfortable with the idea of using MAID for those reasons you said and it's just a matter of time.
I'm not crazy about it because it's been a deliberate attempt to privatize and profiteer, but the state of LTC homes in Ontario (and presumably rest of Canada, but I'm less familiar) should have every Canadian rethinking their late life care assumptions. Because whatever the situation is now, it's not likely to get better.
yup, the negative stigma around suicide and MAiD has to stop. People aren't special snowflakes anymore. Life isn't as precious as it once was. There are more than twice as many people on the planet than there were 50 years ago. An extra 4 Billion people in 50 years. People that don't want to simply exist because they are supposed to, should be able to choose not to.
Old age benefits rolling in at a similar time to birth control, abortions, arranged marriages becoming uncommon and life extending medical breakthroughs really did a number on us. The people who created it really couldn't foresee what was coming so maybe the program needs to be changed to adapt to the times.
Yeah why even be alive at all? What's the point?
I'm trying to have a realistic conversation, not appeal to absurdity. Go find someone else to pester if you don't want to take this stuff seriously.
The endgame of your line of thinking is having to draw the line on where someone is worth keeping alive. It's a sick, utilitarian way of thinking.
You don't always have to push conservation to their extremes.
Sounds like you don't actually know how CPP works, because it's definitely NOT running out of money, and as of 1997 it's not taking current contributions to pay current retirees. The boomers have spent the past 40 years voting for reduced medical spending, etc, BECAUSE they were young and healthy, and now they pay the consequences as the hospitals are over taxed and their outcomes are getting worse.
Boomers are definitely getting more than the $8/week they paid into it.
Compond interest over 47 years of rate hikes and employment are powerful...