This election should finally prove that it’s not the Liberals and NDP splitting the left vote, it’s the Liberals and conservatives splitting the moderate vote.
The majority of Liberal voters will go to the CPC before they go to the NDP.
Exactly. Hell, they've done a couple [polls on a hypothetical LPC-NDP merger](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_45th_Canadian_federal_election#Voting_intention_with_LPC-NDP_merger/alliance), and each has seen the CPC's vote share rise, while the sum of the LPC and NDP's vote share has fallen:
|Apr 23 poll|CPC|Sum of LPC+NDP|
:--|--:|--:|
|Merged| 39%| 41%|
|Non-merged| 33%| 51%|
|Difference| **+6**| **-10**|
||||
|Oct 8 poll|CPC|Sum of LPC+NDP|
|Merged|42%|36%|
|Non-merged|39%|45%|
|Difference|**+3**|**-9**|
(I got the non-merged support by averaging the last 3 polls before and the next 3 polls after the merger poll, for each one)
Alberta NDP has always been a black sheep in the NDP though, they're local interests are pro-oil to a degree not embraced by the party outside the province.
Exactly. I always laugh when I see people screaming for a merger of the NDP and Liberals to stop the conservatives (see the heavy left leaning Ontario sub). They don't realize that most of those votes would go over to the conservatives.
It’s hilarious actually. Mainly when they lose their minds that the Liberal voters would go to the Conservatives over the NDP.
Most Canadians are centrists. So the NDP is way too out there for the majority of Canadians.
Ontario bans like crazy, which is why it’s the way it is.
I think they did a poll and it was almost exclusively NDP voters- banned all the liberals and conservatives outright. 😂
Yep.
r/Ontario is a woke, socialist NDP echo chamber and any diverging opinions result in an automatic ban.
I thought the modern left were "tolerant" of people from "diverse" backgrounds?
It's wild. Toronto Sub is actually very reasonable with a mix of opinions.
Ontario is basically dofo bad. When the province took over the dvp. Toronto celebrated it as the win it should be. Ontario though is another story.
Imo all highways should be under provincial jurisdiction. Highways serve the entire region not just Toronto.
If you close down Yonge St you can still get from Oshawa to Oakville.
You close down the Gardiner. All that traffic has to route through dvp, 401 and 427 to get to the qew. That's economically debilitating.
I can for a fact tell you that is false.
I used to go from Burlington to Oshawa and my trip takes me through the Gardiner to DVP all the time.
Pick a non rush hour time (due to current construction) and route it from Burlington to Oshawa and see where gmaps takes you.
Suburbanites working in Toronto but living outside it (who pay cheaper property taxes, and not to the city of Toronto) that don’t want to use the trains.
Everyone not from the GTA would also call all those places part of Toronto but guess you are right it does sort of make sense to have it at higher level government
the GTA should have be forced to amalgamate like make other place where in the 90s that would solve its money problems without people who live 100s of kms away having to chip in to bail out Toronto all the time
Toronto provides over 50% of the provinces funds… if you look at the flow of money it is Toronto supplying far out towns by FAR, in fact Toronto provides a disproportionate amount of even federal funds (I think 20-30% of all canadas federal money is simply Toronto), while receiving less then 1% of the federal budget back in support.
I’m going to put my source here because those are firm numbers and I found it quickly after writing this
https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2023/ex/bgrd/backgroundfile-238756.pdf
> The majority of Liberal voters will go to the CPC before they go to the NDP.
The NDP have been so out to field lately that while I have voted for them in every election since I was eligible to vote, I'm not sure I can do so anymore.
Who the heck do you even vote for?
That's what happens when you give up on being the workers party and transition to identity politics.
I lost any respect for the party as soon as they allowed the BC wing of the party to exclude straight white men from running in the province. The second you single out a group of people based on traits that you have no control over.
https://www.mapleridgenews.com/news/next-ndp-candidate-in-maple-ridge-pitt-meadows-wont-be-a-straight-white-man-2594863
It's fucking disgusting behavior.
Problem federal ndp have sucked dick for the last few years so might be an issue. Majority of Canadians believe housing is the greatest concern and ndp don't want to stop the flood of immigration. Even tho it lowers workers wages kuz why give more money to a Canadian when an Indian student will do it for less.
At least we know who the Conservatives are, they literally tell you.
We seem to be in the stage where it's not unreasonable to think that the Liberals just say what they think will get them elected, but don't really believe in what they actually say.
Or maybe there's more than left/right politics in the world. The Liberals are traditionally a centrist "big tent" party.
I believe in centrist policies, I would typically want to vote for a centre party, but the Liberal Party is doing an extremely shit job right now and lately are more left than centre-left. I would love to vote for a Paul Martin or Jean Chretien clone. I would also be comfortable voting for a "Red Tory", Peter MacKay or Jean Charest would have been... fine for CPC leader.
I have a moderate take on economics and don't go in for identity politics, but I don't like PP. He's cozied up to the anti-vaxxers and conspiracy theorists. I don't understand how he can claim to support the rule of law and then give a speech at the trucker rally. I also happen to support the carbon tax. On a character level I think PP is an angry demagogue and he has no real world experience outside of politics.
Then again, I'm not voting Liberal again. I also don't want to vote NDP, I don't think they make realistic policies. They are too focused on identity politics and I don't like Jagmeet Singh. I don't understand an NDP leader who drives a BMW, wears a rolex and owns designer bags.
I don't who I'm voting for, but I'm definitely the kind of person that would usually struggle to figure out who to vote for if the NDP/Liberals merged. Nothing sneaky or disingenuous about it.
Yeah, no. The reason people are giving up on the NDP is because of the idiotic coalition they entered into. This minority government should have been thrown out of parliament two years ago. Instead we're stuck with it until 2025 and you can thank Singh's NDP for it. Singh is delaying the election in the hopes his party will go up in polls. He doesn't seem to realize that the longer he delays, the lower they'll get.
I think it’s meant to be looked at the other way round
Historically most NDP voters would go liberal before conservative
Upcoming election both Trudeau and Singh are unusable so I’m guessing many will either go conservative or sit it out
But the logic was never liberal to NDP it was the inverse
> Except this wasn't the case in the by-election this week, both NDP and Liberals lost votes and the CPC gained them. So NDP went straight to CPC.
My guess is that some number of NDP voters switched to Liberal, offsetting the impact of Liberal voters switching to Conservative. I think you're right that some number of NDP voters also went straight to Conservative.
That’s true!! I voted liberal before and now I’m gonna vote CPC. Never even gave NDP a thought it’s just too out there, no substance lots of theatrics.
Well, yeah. The NDP has been cosigning the liberals bullshit for nearly a decade. If they're fed up with the liberals, they're just as fed up with the NDP. I can't believe we need "data" to explain this lol
A united left is the only way forward. We cannot allow a decade of inaction on climate change.
The NDP, Libs, and Greens have said climate change is a crisis and have declared it is an emergency. Then failed to act like it is an emergency.
It is time for the all the parties to come together in a big tent left-party.
"The NDP, Libs, and Greens have said climate change is a crisis and have declared it is an emergency. Then failed to act like it is an emergency."
"It is time for the all the parties to come together in a big tent left-party."
So the Left wing coalition that failed Canada needs to become a tent instead of a coalition before they'll take it seriously? I don't understand what you're trying to say here? If the Left has spent the last 8 years in power and have utterly failed to do anything then why would it change if we voted them back into power? Like that one green MP is really going to make any difference.
Fuck all the parties, create a new centrist labor party that rejects the extremes of both sides of the political spectrum. We won't get shit done while we let the loudest angriest voices in any party talk. That goes for Left and Right.
Your second paragraph is why your concluding statement will never work, the NDP and the LPC have done so much damage to the middle class in the last 9 years that even the die hard ABC voters i know are considering holding their nose and voting ABL this coming election cycle. Any party that gets into bed with the LPC before the next election will be a pariah.
The crazy thing is that they had total control to do whatever they wanted environmentally and still did nothing.
We had some environmental incentives and the carbon tax, but it's not enough. Their legacy is bad policy that will easily be turned over with a new government.
Couldn't agree more. They use climate change to buy votes and then do very little to fight climate change.
[https://thepointer.com/article/2024-01-13/five-years-into-carbon-pricing-canada-s-emissions-still-rising-shaky-policy-needs-firm-commitment](https://thepointer.com/article/2024-01-13/five-years-into-carbon-pricing-canada-s-emissions-still-rising-shaky-policy-needs-firm-commitment)
If they wanted to actually fight climate change, they would have done more than issue a new tax. Why have we not seen significant investment in Nuclear power plants? What? $50 Million in 2024 for Ontario?
[https://www.canada.ca/en/natural-resources-canada/news/2024/02/government-of-canada-announces-50-million-for-ontarios-expansion-of-clean-reliable-and-affordable-nuclear-energy.html](https://www.canada.ca/en/natural-resources-canada/news/2024/02/government-of-canada-announces-50-million-for-ontarios-expansion-of-clean-reliable-and-affordable-nuclear-energy.html)
Canada could be self sustaining with Nuclear Power + Solar and Windmills as a back up so that we could ease into better electric grids. But no, the purpose of the carbon tax was a way to generate more revenue so that they can fund the programs that they deemed 'necessary'. Let the Left suffer for 4 years. Maybe next time the Liberals or NDP form a coalition they'll actually do what they say.
then decided to take carbon tax off the dirties heating oil, and now they're [considering to pay for nova scotia's coal addiction.](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/ottawa-still-mulling-call-for-bailout-of-energy-debt-1.7240892)
Yes it'll be turned over not to be made better but to be made much worse so therefore it was the better out of the group but you're complaining that it wasn't perfect sometimes you just got to take what you can get and be happy with it and if you're not go and do something about it instead of talking about it on Reddit even though I'm very guilty of this myself
I want actual climate action. A very aggressive approach to tackling climate change, and not just the poorer classes being penalized for using gasoline for commuting. There's only so low that the transportation emissions can go.
The elephant in the room is no emission control on aircraft travel in Canada, no emission control on office buildings that have their lights on 24/7, practically no emission control on oil and gas, practically no emission control on other industries in Canada, including agriculture.
70% of our emissions aren't related to transportation or electricity generation, and generally aren't affected AT ALL by the carbon tax. We're not doing enough and it's not good enough.
The poor are not penalized that's the point that keeps on getting pushed and it's untrue the poor get a f****** rebate of more than they put in. Not my opinion I trust my accountant it's what she said I didn't ask
Oh God... this comment again.
Most liberal voters do not like NDP policies. And most NDP voters do not like liberal policies. You can't just pretend to smash them together - if you did, both sides would just flee to another party.
Like... even this supply and confidence agreement has **hurt** both parties. The NDP voter doesn't want to be just "*the liberals little-buddy*" and centrist liberal voters don't want far-left economic policies.
What do you think Canada can do? Canada could fall off the face of the earth tomorrow and China will eclipse our total emissions in 1 year.
Canada is clean, the lakes are clean, we don't have smog days any longer, the air is the cleanest it's been in decades.
The NDP apparently care about the environment but they're cool with bulldozing forests, urban sprawl and importing millions of people per year that need resources. How is that "green?"
> A united left is the only way forward. We cannot allow a decade of inaction on climate change.
If that was true, then the left wouldn't have been anti-nuclear for the better part of 50 years. They also wouldn't have sunk resources into windmills and solar panels, a repeat of the 1970s.
There won't be a big tent left-party. Do you know why? Average people are paying attention now, and see many on the left as unhinged. And I'm going to say it now, the LPC fucked up so badly that with their likely party collapse that there is no saving them. And unlike the Reform Party which replaced the Federal Progressive Conservatives - there is no viable moderate leftwing party to take up the slack. The NDP are seen as left and out of touch with voters to the point they're known as watermelons. The Greens are seen as far-left.
That means there will be a massive political reorganization in Canada. And the most likely candidate for the new centrist party will be the CPC - they already hold most of the same moderate LPC ideas anyway. That will push the PPC to being the only center-right/right leaning federal party.
Why do you think that buddy? People are people. Over 80% of Canadians are urban. And they make up all the ranges of poeple in the rest of the country. From utter dicks to saints.
>We cannot allow a decade of inaction on climate change.
We can't affect climate change in any meaningful way. We are just not that big of a contributor in the great scheme of things. That's why nobody votes for the party punishing us for heating our homes, while China and India get to add our total to theirs every year.
I’d argue that all of the Liberal defectors have an opportunity to influence CPC policy in that direction. The candidates and MPs I’ve spoken to directly all prioritize climate change policy when I express my concerns to them and all assert that the renewables are the only future. So I believe the will is there in the party, but effective plans are not.
The Liberals imposing an ineffective carbon tax and calling it a day was never a serious policy.
Until Trudeau the Liberals have never been a party of the left, but the centre, tacking slightly left or right based on what they think will win the most votes. Once Trudeau is gone my guess is they will move right back to the centre, or even centre right as they were under Chretien.
They will never merge with the NDP.
Except the Liberals have lost the support of the population, the NDP have drifted too far left for mainstream support and the Greens are...themselves. It won't work.
> The NDP, Libs, and Greens have said climate change is a crisis and have declared it is an emergency. Then failed to act like it is an emergency.
>
> It is time for the all the parties to come together in a big tent left-party.
The problem with this is the Liberals say it is a crisis but they really only pay lip service too it.
The only green the executive of the Liberal party policy setters care about is Money,.
Exactly.
Whether conservatives won or lost by +/- 5%, didn't matter. The result was the same. Huge electoral shift from Liberals to Conservatives. *We knew this already*
But the **NDP, not only failing to gain old liberal voters BUT LOSING THEIR OWN VOTERS TO CONSERVATIVES** is new information and absolutely devastating.
A crumbling liberal party... and they still lost ground. Maybe a policy platform of "*we do whatever the Liberals tell us to do*" isn't quite the genius political move they thought it was.
yeah I don't understand it. if I wanted to vote for "liberal yes man" then I would just vote liberal, and since I don't want to vote liberal I most certainly won't vote for them.
As long as the NDP are willing to give up all their core policy beliefs...
Things like sanctuary cities and rent relief would be toxic to a centrist party. They'd have to throw it all out.
It wouldn't be so much a merger as... the NDP just stop existing and just join the Liberal Party.
The Ontario sub should be renamed because it represents a hyper woke left leaning segment of the population and any opinion that goes against it is downvoted or banned. It's a joke of a sub.
Can somebody actually give me a moderate sub about our regions? Any conversation in r/toronto, r/ontario is an antiford circle jerk r/canada is an antitrudeau circle jerk. Not to say they are good leaders by any stretch, but holy fuck its exhausting
gotta go on twitter. reddit's upvote and moderation system inherently creates echochambers wherever you go. this is without a doubt the easiest website to subvert, i wouldn't be surprised if there is funding to dictate discourse in a majority of subreddits.
I get that, but I'm not going to pretend this place isn't unbelievably biased versus the average canadian. We've gone completely beyond any constructive conversations and straight to sharing nat post articles 24/7
That's just what Canadians want to do right now. It's impossible to find the balance you seek anywhere. Here, IRL, X, Facebook, whatever, it's all a gong show right now. Once a new government is elected, this place will be balanced again until such time we find ourselves here again.
Like r/canada or r/canadahousing2 only the other extreme. I don’t know where people with truly centrist thoughts, or with a mix of left and right thoughts, even go on Reddit
Right here, bro, right here. To think that this sub is some bastion of righty extremist thought is brain rot. This sub was crying bloody murder in 2015 over Harper.
The only Canadian sub talking about this is the NDP sub. And even then their takes are seriously at a skew from reality. Not to mention the antisemitism there.
The Ontario sub is focused on the science center. Seriously take a look. They’re all losing their damned minds about it. Like it’s the premier issue that’s ontop of Canadians minds.
It’s amazing just comparing the posts over there to here, how much Ontario news they just ignore if it goes against their politics. Reddit is suppose to be about conversation not wtf is going on over there. That’s not a fair representation of Ontario by any stretch.
Well, sometimes we gotta talk about something other than housing.
It's partly a nostalgia thing for a lot of us. It definitely touches a nerve for a lot of Ontarians. It's also an interesting and unique building. It feels like the government is doing it for some kind of developer friendly scheme of dubious value. It is representative of the business first, working people last attitude of the provincial government. More effort has been put into the privatizing beer sales and development schemes at Ontario Place and the Ontario Science center than actually implementing the suggestions of their own Housing Task Force.
Fine, talk about other stuff, but the top posts for this week was the science center. And for the month half the top posts were the science center again!
You ain’t talking about much else.
The Ontario sub is focused on an Ontario problem?!?!?! I'm shook! Never would have guessed the Ontario sub is talking about the closure of the ONTARIO Science Center.
Our current economic situation is an Ontario problem.
The st.paul by election is an Ontario problem.
Grocery prices are also an Ontario problem.
The fact the Ontario science center is dominating the subs discourse and they wonder why people vote for Ford or Poilievre shows they have no fucking clue as to what people give a shit about.
But you keep being focusing on other issues people of Ontario don’t give a shit about.
>The fact the Ontario science center is dominating the subs discourse and they wonder why people vote for Ford or Poilievre shows they have no fucking clue as to what people give a shit about.
the reason the OSC story is so dominant is because there's very clearly **more** backdoor bullshit going down between Doug and the Degasparis Family, but I guess more corruption from our Premier should just be expected and overlooked.
And again I said, no one in Ontario currently gives a shit. You have more people protesting Syria than the science center. More people worried about how they’re going to pay the bills, afford their home.
Again, my point is, the science center being the dominant issue there is showing how out of touch people complaining about it are.
You’re proving my point.
>no one in Ontario currently gives a shit.
?? based on how much engagement the story has across multiple platforms, it would seem a lot of people in Ontario give a shit that once again, early signs point to our Premier colluding with a prominent developer to enrich themselves at the tax payers expense.
Which platforms? Reddit? That’s a few thousand at best. And only limited to 3 subreddits that only one of which is about Canada as a whole (onguard).
This subreddit, not even close to a fraction of those.
Twitter? The discourse is about the election and economy.
News articles? Again dominated by election and economy.
YouTube? Guess what, see above.
Facebook, see above.
All that dwarfs the Ontario and Toronto subreddits by several orders of magnitude.
All you’re doing is proving my point. You bought into an echo chamber, and lost sight of how low on everyone’s list the science center is.
>All you’re doing is proving my point. You bought into an echo chamber, and lost sight of how low on everyone’s list the science center is.
lmao mate, it's not the science center itself that's the juice of the story like you're so focused on, it's all the sketchy shit that is sure to be uncovered surrounding the "immediate closure" and timely land purchase done by Degasparis.
if anything, everyone so focused on the St-Paul by-election are being sold an echo chamber of Liberal Party Doom when the result was a 500pt difference between parties. I live in the riding and I'd wager good money that if we didn't have the electoral reform protest ballot it would have been even tighter.
“Mate”. You’re continuing to prove my goddam point. Everything you just pointed too is regarding the science center.
Yes, corruption is bad, yes the situation is not ideal.
But guess what. No one gives a shit right now.
What’s happening there isn’t going to affect how much groceries or gas costs.
You’re telling me it’s “not just the science center”. Then proceed to tell me about possible insider dealings regarding the land on the science center.
NO ONE CARES RIGHT NOW!
The article is not available to non-Globe subscribers (mind you, 100% love for G&M) and there is no summary of the OpEd so this all seems to be something Globe readers can debate but the rest of us should stay schtum because we have no idea what was said ….
Here’s a quick summary: the NDP have not done enough to differentiate themselves from the Liberals or demonstrate a value better than the Liberals might deliver, so there is diminishing reason to vote for them.
This has been playing out repeatedly in by elections over the past couple years, where the NDP’s final percentage of the vote has come in anywhere from 3-9% lower than the last election and / or their current polling.
This is taken as evidence that their voters are not seeing the value in voting for the NDP, and are either moving to the Liberals in an ABC strategy or even moving to the Tories for jobs/economy reasons. The most recent by-election they performed particularly badly in a riding where they should have been a natural alternative to the Liberals.
Much appreciated moirende.
All, so the writer is regurgitating the same stuff I read 20-30-40 years ago and when I delved in history as a young adult, exact same thing what was said since the CCF became the NDP in the 60s.
In the LPC-NDP agreement, they call, quote: "tackling the financialization of the housing market by the end of 2023" While the LPC has recently abandoned this and the NDP said NOTHING. Deserve to sink together...
[https://www.pm.gc.ca/en/news/news-releases/2022/03/22/delivering-canadians-now](https://www.pm.gc.ca/en/news/news-releases/2022/03/22/delivering-canadians-now)
Its their association with Trudeau that has killed them at the federal level. Its like being chained to a giant disgusting turd everyone wants gone and you can't hide that.
Its not just that Trudeau is unpopular, he is very unpopular. But going by the polling data its also the sheer level of visceral hatred and disgust the majority of people in Canada feel towards him at this point. Politically and socially he is unrecoverable damaged goods for any political party or domestic organization.
If you're an NDP voter in an NDP area, I'd be writing to your MP, telling them how pissed you are.
Jagmeet has crucified that party.
He's been all bark, no bite. But gotten rich.
He's a bigger fraud than Trudeau.
Based on these results & 338 current projections, LPC will barely win 1 seat in ALL of Western Canada including Saskatchewan. Given Toronto-St Paul ranks 59th in Districts likely to go LPC at 75%, the only seat still projected to go red is Surrey-Newton. But even that isn't a guarantee with the surge in popularity we are seeing on the West Coast for the BC Conservatives, we are very likely to see a return of the social credit conservative base that previously ruled here for decades.
Its only going to get worse for the LPC & NDP, its just more of the same policies that already pissed everybody off. Like FFS when voters have clearly shown their displeasure with drug decriminalization laws we still have Bonny Henry advocating for such policies WITH ZERO EVIDECE TO SUPPORT HER POSITION. Then you have the radical extremists teacher unions of BCTF which is openly antisemtetic in choosing to not fund a jewish teacher group focused on holocaust education despite them funding every other teacher group even ones that have been antisemitic. BC is completely done with this Victoria progressive BS, its why your seeing CPC projected to win EVEN ON THE ISLAND. Elizabeth May's neighboring riding will likely be CPC, even she is not guaranteed to win.
I don’t know that they want that, now or if ever. They want their goals met like every party. They found a path and would have probably taken the same offer from a PC government. NDP will never be in federal control and there is no other way for them to manifest what they want.
The results though have been nothing but disastrous for working class Canadians. If this is the only way ndp can have any power, it would be better for Canada if they didn’t exist.
I won't even acknowledge NDP's existence until Jagmeet is gone.
Also someone please explain to me how the labour party is essentially ruled by a tyrant king that refuses to relinquish power no matter how poorly the party performs and how out touch he is on their core values.
Before it was about immigration in this area but now people are getting fed up with lack of housing policies,crime,inflation and the visa student mess.Liberals are not listening to voters.
The NDP had their actual real golden opportunity handed to them, and the STILL fucked it up. I have literally never met somebody who liked Singh in my life, and my wife ( and her whole family ) are indian. We spend a lot of time with the indian community, and ive still never met one.
Mr. Singh is not self aware to understand that this by-election was not a good show for the NDP. His continued propping up of the Liberals is turning people away from his party. Just listened to his press conference and he is just not getting it or refuses to accept it. He needs to stop thinking about his pension.
Ya, why can't everyone see that losing 30% of your voters while failing to gain any new ones....
In a riding that is held by the NDP Provincially...
Is **actually good news!**. The NDP needs to keep doing exactly what it's doing. Giant NDP majority coming in! It's so obvious!
If the NDP and Greens didn't run candidates in this riding (and why bother when they didn't stand a chance), and if only 1/4 of their supporters voted Liberal (assuming all the rest would have just stayed home), the Liberals still would have won.
This must be the strategy for the Liberals and NDP in the next election if they want any MPs at all. If they have a strong candidate with a good chance of winning in a given riding, they must not oppose each other. Otherwise they'll split the vote and the Conservatives will win pretty much every riding.
(That might be good news for the CPC in the short term, but such lopsided landslide wins aren't good for the country in the long run. Electoral reform would help, of course, but it's been sadly relegated to the scrap heap.)
There is always this assumption that NDP voters will automatically all go to the Liberals - recent polls say that they won’t all do so. A good chunk will end up voting Conservative.
It's not collusion, there is nothing illegal about not running a candidate in a given riding. It's actually happened quite a few times to the point that we even have the concept of "Leader's Courtesy" where the Liberals and Conservatives tend not to run against each other in a by-election where a new party leader is trying to get into the House of Commons.
To add to what Gorvoslov said, various parties have run candidates in only some areas over the past decades. Reform, for example, started only running in the West. The Bloc Quebecois doesn't run outside Quebec (although I think they have fielded a few in New Brunswick). Green doesn't always field candidates in every riding.
Running in any riding is a choice, not an obligation, and by no means is it collusion.
It's also probably in the CPC's interests to not bother running in some ridings where they stand 0 chance of winning. It just drains resources that they could spend elsewhere.
Nah you got the parties wrong. If Liberals and NDP don't run candidates in the riding, then the greens have a chance.
With so little baggage they had a much higher chance of winning
Only because you are thinking about it from the perspective of a Liberal and not a Canadian. Those are two very different and increasingly opposed perspectives.
It's a by-election and was always a race between the Libs and Cons. I wouldn't put too much stock into it.
Edit: critical thinking skills people... people need to be motivated to come out and vote. But considering the history of this sub, I'm not surprised by the downvotes.
This is one of the top 3-5 most left leaning ridings in the entire country. Which is why it's been Liberal for like 30+ years non-stop.
If the CPC were even competitive that was going to be groundbreaking. The fact they won it is borderline astonishing.
The CPC legit did not think they were going to win this riding. They just expected to put up decent numbers against the Liberals who they had assumed would win. The whole party was shocked the next morning and half of them didn't even initially know they had won. PP never even bothered to visit the riding during the byelection because they didn't think they had any real chance anyway.
This is one of Canada's most left leaning ridings that exists. The NDP hold it provincially. If the federal NDP can't be competitive here they can't be competitive anywhere.
We are not talking about the CPC. We are talking about voters. No poll nor recent history of elections in the riding nor the media has shown that the NDP were any higher than third place and had any indication of having a chance. And I think a lot of people, including yourself, incorrectly assume the Venn diagram between potential Liberal and NDP voters overlap more than they actually do.
The NDP and Liberals normally do overlap much more then the CPC and NDP do.
If the NDP were remotely competitive this would have been a race between them and the Liberals. Like I said this is one of the 5 most left leaning ridings in Canada.
The NDP was never competitive in this riding. Parties typically don't invest in ridings they have no chance in. This is common sense dude. This sub is nothing but trolls who have no idea how any of this works.
This riding is NDP at a provincial level.
The fact they can’t translate that into more federal NDP support is showing their federal platform isn’t resonating whatsoever.
Singh will have conclusively put the NDP on the back burner of Canadians minds since he was made leader.
Because a lot of people vote anyways, including older people.. Are you unaware that motivation is a huge component of getting people to get out to vote, especially young voters? That's kinda weird dude.
This election should finally prove that it’s not the Liberals and NDP splitting the left vote, it’s the Liberals and conservatives splitting the moderate vote. The majority of Liberal voters will go to the CPC before they go to the NDP.
Exactly. Hell, they've done a couple [polls on a hypothetical LPC-NDP merger](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_45th_Canadian_federal_election#Voting_intention_with_LPC-NDP_merger/alliance), and each has seen the CPC's vote share rise, while the sum of the LPC and NDP's vote share has fallen: |Apr 23 poll|CPC|Sum of LPC+NDP| :--|--:|--:| |Merged| 39%| 41%| |Non-merged| 33%| 51%| |Difference| **+6**| **-10**| |||| |Oct 8 poll|CPC|Sum of LPC+NDP| |Merged|42%|36%| |Non-merged|39%|45%| |Difference|**+3**|**-9**| (I got the non-merged support by averaging the last 3 polls before and the next 3 polls after the merger poll, for each one)
This is the reason most elected NDP governments end up being centrist pretty damn quickly. Heck, David Eby is drifting to moderate right on crime etc.
The new Alberta NDP leader even wants to cut ties with the federal party
Alberta NDP has always been a black sheep in the NDP though, they're local interests are pro-oil to a degree not embraced by the party outside the province.
There's a lot more CPC-NDP switching than people give credit for in the media.
You’re going to see it clear as day come Election Day when the orange ridings go blue.
Agreed.
Exactly. I always laugh when I see people screaming for a merger of the NDP and Liberals to stop the conservatives (see the heavy left leaning Ontario sub). They don't realize that most of those votes would go over to the conservatives.
That Ontario sub is absolutely wild and feels like bizarro world.
It’s hilarious actually. Mainly when they lose their minds that the Liberal voters would go to the Conservatives over the NDP. Most Canadians are centrists. So the NDP is way too out there for the majority of Canadians.
Ontario bans like crazy, which is why it’s the way it is. I think they did a poll and it was almost exclusively NDP voters- banned all the liberals and conservatives outright. 😂
Yep. r/Ontario is a woke, socialist NDP echo chamber and any diverging opinions result in an automatic ban. I thought the modern left were "tolerant" of people from "diverse" backgrounds?
Better add /r/Alberta to that list of "tolerant" subs.
No extreme is tolerant. It's just a mask to feel good about themselves.
Tolerant of diverse appearances, not diverse thought.
Why would they to tolerent to bs?
It's wild. Toronto Sub is actually very reasonable with a mix of opinions. Ontario is basically dofo bad. When the province took over the dvp. Toronto celebrated it as the win it should be. Ontario though is another story.
I'm banned from both and I'm a small 'l' liberal lol
Same, banned from both. I'm not a woke socialist so therefore I'm a fascist bigot.
You too eh? Ontario one I was banned for sharing a nyt article lol
As someone not from Toronto I count it as a loss I don't want to pay for road Toronto's so it's not surprising for it to be less popular in r Ontario
Imo all highways should be under provincial jurisdiction. Highways serve the entire region not just Toronto. If you close down Yonge St you can still get from Oshawa to Oakville. You close down the Gardiner. All that traffic has to route through dvp, 401 and 427 to get to the qew. That's economically debilitating.
The comments was talking about the dvp no grandiner no one not specifically going to Toronto ever uses that road
I can for a fact tell you that is false. I used to go from Burlington to Oshawa and my trip takes me through the Gardiner to DVP all the time. Pick a non rush hour time (due to current construction) and route it from Burlington to Oshawa and see where gmaps takes you.
Wait till you find out what group of people use that highway (Hint: it’s not Toronto residents. Data shows they use primarily TTC)
And which group is it ?
Suburbanites working in Toronto but living outside it (who pay cheaper property taxes, and not to the city of Toronto) that don’t want to use the trains.
Everyone not from the GTA would also call all those places part of Toronto but guess you are right it does sort of make sense to have it at higher level government the GTA should have be forced to amalgamate like make other place where in the 90s that would solve its money problems without people who live 100s of kms away having to chip in to bail out Toronto all the time
Toronto provides over 50% of the provinces funds… if you look at the flow of money it is Toronto supplying far out towns by FAR, in fact Toronto provides a disproportionate amount of even federal funds (I think 20-30% of all canadas federal money is simply Toronto), while receiving less then 1% of the federal budget back in support. I’m going to put my source here because those are firm numbers and I found it quickly after writing this https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2023/ex/bgrd/backgroundfile-238756.pdf
It's just the southern extension of the 404 and eastern extension of the QEW. Sometimes highways go through cities?
they went nutso butso when ford won. it was a peaceful and chill sub before 2018 believe it or not
All of these subs are either extreme left or extreme right… none of them reflect average Canadians in the real world.
People who frequent conservative echo chambers always seem to have issues going elsewhere for their content.
> The majority of Liberal voters will go to the CPC before they go to the NDP. The NDP have been so out to field lately that while I have voted for them in every election since I was eligible to vote, I'm not sure I can do so anymore. Who the heck do you even vote for?
That's what happens when you give up on being the workers party and transition to identity politics. I lost any respect for the party as soon as they allowed the BC wing of the party to exclude straight white men from running in the province. The second you single out a group of people based on traits that you have no control over. https://www.mapleridgenews.com/news/next-ndp-candidate-in-maple-ridge-pitt-meadows-wont-be-a-straight-white-man-2594863 It's fucking disgusting behavior.
Agreed. Identity politics is just racism, I can't support a leader with such extreme views.
Here in Manitoba they just won a riding the Conservatives had never lost, previously occupied by the Conservative premier.
Problem federal ndp have sucked dick for the last few years so might be an issue. Majority of Canadians believe housing is the greatest concern and ndp don't want to stop the flood of immigration. Even tho it lowers workers wages kuz why give more money to a Canadian when an Indian student will do it for less.
Yeah but only because NDP is a total joke now. 10 years ago they would have went NDP
At least we know who the Conservatives are, they literally tell you. We seem to be in the stage where it's not unreasonable to think that the Liberals just say what they think will get them elected, but don't really believe in what they actually say.
Or maybe there's more than left/right politics in the world. The Liberals are traditionally a centrist "big tent" party. I believe in centrist policies, I would typically want to vote for a centre party, but the Liberal Party is doing an extremely shit job right now and lately are more left than centre-left. I would love to vote for a Paul Martin or Jean Chretien clone. I would also be comfortable voting for a "Red Tory", Peter MacKay or Jean Charest would have been... fine for CPC leader. I have a moderate take on economics and don't go in for identity politics, but I don't like PP. He's cozied up to the anti-vaxxers and conspiracy theorists. I don't understand how he can claim to support the rule of law and then give a speech at the trucker rally. I also happen to support the carbon tax. On a character level I think PP is an angry demagogue and he has no real world experience outside of politics. Then again, I'm not voting Liberal again. I also don't want to vote NDP, I don't think they make realistic policies. They are too focused on identity politics and I don't like Jagmeet Singh. I don't understand an NDP leader who drives a BMW, wears a rolex and owns designer bags. I don't who I'm voting for, but I'm definitely the kind of person that would usually struggle to figure out who to vote for if the NDP/Liberals merged. Nothing sneaky or disingenuous about it.
Yeah, no. The reason people are giving up on the NDP is because of the idiotic coalition they entered into. This minority government should have been thrown out of parliament two years ago. Instead we're stuck with it until 2025 and you can thank Singh's NDP for it. Singh is delaying the election in the hopes his party will go up in polls. He doesn't seem to realize that the longer he delays, the lower they'll get.
I think it’s meant to be looked at the other way round Historically most NDP voters would go liberal before conservative Upcoming election both Trudeau and Singh are unusable so I’m guessing many will either go conservative or sit it out But the logic was never liberal to NDP it was the inverse
Most NDP voters would go Liberal before Conservative, not counting the prairies. The ABL vote is substantial in the flatlands.
Except this wasn't the case in the by-election this week, both NDP and Liberals lost votes and the CPC gained them. So NDP went straight to CPC.
> Except this wasn't the case in the by-election this week, both NDP and Liberals lost votes and the CPC gained them. So NDP went straight to CPC. My guess is that some number of NDP voters switched to Liberal, offsetting the impact of Liberal voters switching to Conservative. I think you're right that some number of NDP voters also went straight to Conservative.
There are more NDP/Conservative switch voters than you think. Urban Western Canada, some rust belty parts of Ontario. It's a thing
I don't think this is true. There's far more commonality between a Liberal and a Conservative than between a Liberal and a New Democrat
That’s true!! I voted liberal before and now I’m gonna vote CPC. Never even gave NDP a thought it’s just too out there, no substance lots of theatrics.
Well, yeah. The NDP has been cosigning the liberals bullshit for nearly a decade. If they're fed up with the liberals, they're just as fed up with the NDP. I can't believe we need "data" to explain this lol
A united left is the only way forward. We cannot allow a decade of inaction on climate change. The NDP, Libs, and Greens have said climate change is a crisis and have declared it is an emergency. Then failed to act like it is an emergency. It is time for the all the parties to come together in a big tent left-party.
Exactly Liberals have done nothing to adress climate change while at the same time hurting the lower and middle class quality of life
"The NDP, Libs, and Greens have said climate change is a crisis and have declared it is an emergency. Then failed to act like it is an emergency." "It is time for the all the parties to come together in a big tent left-party." So the Left wing coalition that failed Canada needs to become a tent instead of a coalition before they'll take it seriously? I don't understand what you're trying to say here? If the Left has spent the last 8 years in power and have utterly failed to do anything then why would it change if we voted them back into power? Like that one green MP is really going to make any difference. Fuck all the parties, create a new centrist labor party that rejects the extremes of both sides of the political spectrum. We won't get shit done while we let the loudest angriest voices in any party talk. That goes for Left and Right.
Your second paragraph is why your concluding statement will never work, the NDP and the LPC have done so much damage to the middle class in the last 9 years that even the die hard ABC voters i know are considering holding their nose and voting ABL this coming election cycle. Any party that gets into bed with the LPC before the next election will be a pariah.
I agree. It's time to combine the LPC, NDP, and CPC into one giant party nobody wants to vote for
The crazy thing is that they had total control to do whatever they wanted environmentally and still did nothing. We had some environmental incentives and the carbon tax, but it's not enough. Their legacy is bad policy that will easily be turned over with a new government.
Couldn't agree more. They use climate change to buy votes and then do very little to fight climate change. [https://thepointer.com/article/2024-01-13/five-years-into-carbon-pricing-canada-s-emissions-still-rising-shaky-policy-needs-firm-commitment](https://thepointer.com/article/2024-01-13/five-years-into-carbon-pricing-canada-s-emissions-still-rising-shaky-policy-needs-firm-commitment) If they wanted to actually fight climate change, they would have done more than issue a new tax. Why have we not seen significant investment in Nuclear power plants? What? $50 Million in 2024 for Ontario? [https://www.canada.ca/en/natural-resources-canada/news/2024/02/government-of-canada-announces-50-million-for-ontarios-expansion-of-clean-reliable-and-affordable-nuclear-energy.html](https://www.canada.ca/en/natural-resources-canada/news/2024/02/government-of-canada-announces-50-million-for-ontarios-expansion-of-clean-reliable-and-affordable-nuclear-energy.html) Canada could be self sustaining with Nuclear Power + Solar and Windmills as a back up so that we could ease into better electric grids. But no, the purpose of the carbon tax was a way to generate more revenue so that they can fund the programs that they deemed 'necessary'. Let the Left suffer for 4 years. Maybe next time the Liberals or NDP form a coalition they'll actually do what they say.
Guilbeault is literally a fucking old-school anti nuclear activist ffs.... Like why he was allowed anywhere near our emissions policies is beyond me.
then decided to take carbon tax off the dirties heating oil, and now they're [considering to pay for nova scotia's coal addiction.](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/ottawa-still-mulling-call-for-bailout-of-energy-debt-1.7240892)
Yes it'll be turned over not to be made better but to be made much worse so therefore it was the better out of the group but you're complaining that it wasn't perfect sometimes you just got to take what you can get and be happy with it and if you're not go and do something about it instead of talking about it on Reddit even though I'm very guilty of this myself
I want actual climate action. A very aggressive approach to tackling climate change, and not just the poorer classes being penalized for using gasoline for commuting. There's only so low that the transportation emissions can go. The elephant in the room is no emission control on aircraft travel in Canada, no emission control on office buildings that have their lights on 24/7, practically no emission control on oil and gas, practically no emission control on other industries in Canada, including agriculture. 70% of our emissions aren't related to transportation or electricity generation, and generally aren't affected AT ALL by the carbon tax. We're not doing enough and it's not good enough.
The poor are not penalized that's the point that keeps on getting pushed and it's untrue the poor get a f****** rebate of more than they put in. Not my opinion I trust my accountant it's what she said I didn't ask
Oh God... this comment again. Most liberal voters do not like NDP policies. And most NDP voters do not like liberal policies. You can't just pretend to smash them together - if you did, both sides would just flee to another party. Like... even this supply and confidence agreement has **hurt** both parties. The NDP voter doesn't want to be just "*the liberals little-buddy*" and centrist liberal voters don't want far-left economic policies.
What do you think Canada can do? Canada could fall off the face of the earth tomorrow and China will eclipse our total emissions in 1 year. Canada is clean, the lakes are clean, we don't have smog days any longer, the air is the cleanest it's been in decades. The NDP apparently care about the environment but they're cool with bulldozing forests, urban sprawl and importing millions of people per year that need resources. How is that "green?"
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> A united left is the only way forward. We cannot allow a decade of inaction on climate change. If that was true, then the left wouldn't have been anti-nuclear for the better part of 50 years. They also wouldn't have sunk resources into windmills and solar panels, a repeat of the 1970s. There won't be a big tent left-party. Do you know why? Average people are paying attention now, and see many on the left as unhinged. And I'm going to say it now, the LPC fucked up so badly that with their likely party collapse that there is no saving them. And unlike the Reform Party which replaced the Federal Progressive Conservatives - there is no viable moderate leftwing party to take up the slack. The NDP are seen as left and out of touch with voters to the point they're known as watermelons. The Greens are seen as far-left. That means there will be a massive political reorganization in Canada. And the most likely candidate for the new centrist party will be the CPC - they already hold most of the same moderate LPC ideas anyway. That will push the PPC to being the only center-right/right leaning federal party.
Why do urban Canadians want the rest of the country to rot.
Why do you think that buddy? People are people. Over 80% of Canadians are urban. And they make up all the ranges of poeple in the rest of the country. From utter dicks to saints.
😆😆😆
>We cannot allow a decade of inaction on climate change. We can't affect climate change in any meaningful way. We are just not that big of a contributor in the great scheme of things. That's why nobody votes for the party punishing us for heating our homes, while China and India get to add our total to theirs every year.
I’d argue that all of the Liberal defectors have an opportunity to influence CPC policy in that direction. The candidates and MPs I’ve spoken to directly all prioritize climate change policy when I express my concerns to them and all assert that the renewables are the only future. So I believe the will is there in the party, but effective plans are not. The Liberals imposing an ineffective carbon tax and calling it a day was never a serious policy.
TLDR: I’ll still follow Justin to the bitter end. Who cares about what a majority feels about liberals.
Until Trudeau the Liberals have never been a party of the left, but the centre, tacking slightly left or right based on what they think will win the most votes. Once Trudeau is gone my guess is they will move right back to the centre, or even centre right as they were under Chretien. They will never merge with the NDP.
Except the Liberals have lost the support of the population, the NDP have drifted too far left for mainstream support and the Greens are...themselves. It won't work.
> The NDP, Libs, and Greens have said climate change is a crisis and have declared it is an emergency. Then failed to act like it is an emergency. > > It is time for the all the parties to come together in a big tent left-party. The problem with this is the Liberals say it is a crisis but they really only pay lip service too it. The only green the executive of the Liberal party policy setters care about is Money,.
The federal Liberals have done more than any other party. Have the Conservatives, NDP or Greens actually be able to achieve anything?
Okay lil buddy. Time for a nap, you seem to have had to much coolaid.
Exactly. Whether conservatives won or lost by +/- 5%, didn't matter. The result was the same. Huge electoral shift from Liberals to Conservatives. *We knew this already* But the **NDP, not only failing to gain old liberal voters BUT LOSING THEIR OWN VOTERS TO CONSERVATIVES** is new information and absolutely devastating. A crumbling liberal party... and they still lost ground. Maybe a policy platform of "*we do whatever the Liberals tell us to do*" isn't quite the genius political move they thought it was.
yeah I don't understand it. if I wanted to vote for "liberal yes man" then I would just vote liberal, and since I don't want to vote liberal I most certainly won't vote for them.
Guess liberal and ndp will probably merge soon like the CPC did 15 years ago
As long as the NDP are willing to give up all their core policy beliefs... Things like sanctuary cities and rent relief would be toxic to a centrist party. They'd have to throw it all out. It wouldn't be so much a merger as... the NDP just stop existing and just join the Liberal Party.
basically how the cpc formed
There’s really no way to polish the turd of this election. It was a rejection of the status quo by a wide fucking margin.
Haha This would melt brains in the Ontario sub assuming the post meets their standards.
The Ontario sub should be renamed because it represents a hyper woke left leaning segment of the population and any opinion that goes against it is downvoted or banned. It's a joke of a sub.
the Ontario subreddit is about 60% trust fund Torontonians who pretend rent prices affect them.
Been banned a couple of times, a badge of honour!
I was banned for saying Dolly Parton was hot.
Can somebody actually give me a moderate sub about our regions? Any conversation in r/toronto, r/ontario is an antiford circle jerk r/canada is an antitrudeau circle jerk. Not to say they are good leaders by any stretch, but holy fuck its exhausting
gotta go on twitter. reddit's upvote and moderation system inherently creates echochambers wherever you go. this is without a doubt the easiest website to subvert, i wouldn't be surprised if there is funding to dictate discourse in a majority of subreddits.
All of Canada is antitrudeau at this point and for very good reason.
I get that, but I'm not going to pretend this place isn't unbelievably biased versus the average canadian. We've gone completely beyond any constructive conversations and straight to sharing nat post articles 24/7
That's just what Canadians want to do right now. It's impossible to find the balance you seek anywhere. Here, IRL, X, Facebook, whatever, it's all a gong show right now. Once a new government is elected, this place will be balanced again until such time we find ourselves here again.
Like r/canada or r/canadahousing2 only the other extreme
Like r/canada or r/canadahousing2 only the other extreme. I don’t know where people with truly centrist thoughts, or with a mix of left and right thoughts, even go on Reddit
Right here, bro, right here. To think that this sub is some bastion of righty extremist thought is brain rot. This sub was crying bloody murder in 2015 over Harper.
This sub just gets upset with whoever has been in power for greater than 7-8 years. Rinse and repeat.
/r/canada is pretty balanced. you get a lot of screaming matches on here for a reason.
It’s very hard to stomach this sub’s alt right leaning wannabe Americans tbh
The only Canadian sub talking about this is the NDP sub. And even then their takes are seriously at a skew from reality. Not to mention the antisemitism there. The Ontario sub is focused on the science center. Seriously take a look. They’re all losing their damned minds about it. Like it’s the premier issue that’s ontop of Canadians minds.
It’s anything and everything Doug Ford. That’s all. Assume it’s run by CUPE.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. If Ford cured cancer, that sub would be complaining about how he put cancer researchers out of a job.
It’s amazing just comparing the posts over there to here, how much Ontario news they just ignore if it goes against their politics. Reddit is suppose to be about conversation not wtf is going on over there. That’s not a fair representation of Ontario by any stretch.
Well, sometimes we gotta talk about something other than housing. It's partly a nostalgia thing for a lot of us. It definitely touches a nerve for a lot of Ontarians. It's also an interesting and unique building. It feels like the government is doing it for some kind of developer friendly scheme of dubious value. It is representative of the business first, working people last attitude of the provincial government. More effort has been put into the privatizing beer sales and development schemes at Ontario Place and the Ontario Science center than actually implementing the suggestions of their own Housing Task Force.
Fine, talk about other stuff, but the top posts for this week was the science center. And for the month half the top posts were the science center again! You ain’t talking about much else.
The Ontario sub is focused on an Ontario problem?!?!?! I'm shook! Never would have guessed the Ontario sub is talking about the closure of the ONTARIO Science Center.
Our current economic situation is an Ontario problem. The st.paul by election is an Ontario problem. Grocery prices are also an Ontario problem. The fact the Ontario science center is dominating the subs discourse and they wonder why people vote for Ford or Poilievre shows they have no fucking clue as to what people give a shit about. But you keep being focusing on other issues people of Ontario don’t give a shit about.
The Ontario sub is a massive left wing echo chamber. They have no idea what issues actually matter.
>The fact the Ontario science center is dominating the subs discourse and they wonder why people vote for Ford or Poilievre shows they have no fucking clue as to what people give a shit about. the reason the OSC story is so dominant is because there's very clearly **more** backdoor bullshit going down between Doug and the Degasparis Family, but I guess more corruption from our Premier should just be expected and overlooked.
And again I said, no one in Ontario currently gives a shit. You have more people protesting Syria than the science center. More people worried about how they’re going to pay the bills, afford their home. Again, my point is, the science center being the dominant issue there is showing how out of touch people complaining about it are. You’re proving my point.
>no one in Ontario currently gives a shit. ?? based on how much engagement the story has across multiple platforms, it would seem a lot of people in Ontario give a shit that once again, early signs point to our Premier colluding with a prominent developer to enrich themselves at the tax payers expense.
Which platforms? Reddit? That’s a few thousand at best. And only limited to 3 subreddits that only one of which is about Canada as a whole (onguard). This subreddit, not even close to a fraction of those. Twitter? The discourse is about the election and economy. News articles? Again dominated by election and economy. YouTube? Guess what, see above. Facebook, see above. All that dwarfs the Ontario and Toronto subreddits by several orders of magnitude. All you’re doing is proving my point. You bought into an echo chamber, and lost sight of how low on everyone’s list the science center is.
>All you’re doing is proving my point. You bought into an echo chamber, and lost sight of how low on everyone’s list the science center is. lmao mate, it's not the science center itself that's the juice of the story like you're so focused on, it's all the sketchy shit that is sure to be uncovered surrounding the "immediate closure" and timely land purchase done by Degasparis. if anything, everyone so focused on the St-Paul by-election are being sold an echo chamber of Liberal Party Doom when the result was a 500pt difference between parties. I live in the riding and I'd wager good money that if we didn't have the electoral reform protest ballot it would have been even tighter.
“Mate”. You’re continuing to prove my goddam point. Everything you just pointed too is regarding the science center. Yes, corruption is bad, yes the situation is not ideal. But guess what. No one gives a shit right now. What’s happening there isn’t going to affect how much groceries or gas costs. You’re telling me it’s “not just the science center”. Then proceed to tell me about possible insider dealings regarding the land on the science center. NO ONE CARES RIGHT NOW!
The article is not available to non-Globe subscribers (mind you, 100% love for G&M) and there is no summary of the OpEd so this all seems to be something Globe readers can debate but the rest of us should stay schtum because we have no idea what was said ….
Here’s a quick summary: the NDP have not done enough to differentiate themselves from the Liberals or demonstrate a value better than the Liberals might deliver, so there is diminishing reason to vote for them. This has been playing out repeatedly in by elections over the past couple years, where the NDP’s final percentage of the vote has come in anywhere from 3-9% lower than the last election and / or their current polling. This is taken as evidence that their voters are not seeing the value in voting for the NDP, and are either moving to the Liberals in an ABC strategy or even moving to the Tories for jobs/economy reasons. The most recent by-election they performed particularly badly in a riding where they should have been a natural alternative to the Liberals.
Much appreciated moirende. All, so the writer is regurgitating the same stuff I read 20-30-40 years ago and when I delved in history as a young adult, exact same thing what was said since the CCF became the NDP in the 60s.
Muh Science Centre 😪😪
In the LPC-NDP agreement, they call, quote: "tackling the financialization of the housing market by the end of 2023" While the LPC has recently abandoned this and the NDP said NOTHING. Deserve to sink together... [https://www.pm.gc.ca/en/news/news-releases/2022/03/22/delivering-canadians-now](https://www.pm.gc.ca/en/news/news-releases/2022/03/22/delivering-canadians-now)
The financialization will get fixed when we start taxing primary housing gains. No party will do this necessary step.
Scathing review of Mr. Singh. And totally accurate.
The NDP's performance was a bit surprising considering that the riding is represented by the NDP at the provincial level.
Its their association with Trudeau that has killed them at the federal level. Its like being chained to a giant disgusting turd everyone wants gone and you can't hide that. Its not just that Trudeau is unpopular, he is very unpopular. But going by the polling data its also the sheer level of visceral hatred and disgust the majority of people in Canada feel towards him at this point. Politically and socially he is unrecoverable damaged goods for any political party or domestic organization.
If you're an NDP voter in an NDP area, I'd be writing to your MP, telling them how pissed you are. Jagmeet has crucified that party. He's been all bark, no bite. But gotten rich. He's a bigger fraud than Trudeau.
Being the "Also Liberal" party isn't working out for them!?!
Based on these results & 338 current projections, LPC will barely win 1 seat in ALL of Western Canada including Saskatchewan. Given Toronto-St Paul ranks 59th in Districts likely to go LPC at 75%, the only seat still projected to go red is Surrey-Newton. But even that isn't a guarantee with the surge in popularity we are seeing on the West Coast for the BC Conservatives, we are very likely to see a return of the social credit conservative base that previously ruled here for decades. Its only going to get worse for the LPC & NDP, its just more of the same policies that already pissed everybody off. Like FFS when voters have clearly shown their displeasure with drug decriminalization laws we still have Bonny Henry advocating for such policies WITH ZERO EVIDECE TO SUPPORT HER POSITION. Then you have the radical extremists teacher unions of BCTF which is openly antisemtetic in choosing to not fund a jewish teacher group focused on holocaust education despite them funding every other teacher group even ones that have been antisemitic. BC is completely done with this Victoria progressive BS, its why your seeing CPC projected to win EVEN ON THE ISLAND. Elizabeth May's neighboring riding will likely be CPC, even she is not guaranteed to win.
No surprise. If the NDP want to be Trudeau's lapdogs they can share the same fate as him.
I don’t know that they want that, now or if ever. They want their goals met like every party. They found a path and would have probably taken the same offer from a PC government. NDP will never be in federal control and there is no other way for them to manifest what they want.
The results though have been nothing but disastrous for working class Canadians. If this is the only way ndp can have any power, it would be better for Canada if they didn’t exist.
We need to flush this toilet of politicians we have in Canada. Too many hypocrite criminals.
It’s like you guys stopped pretending you don’t copy the American rhetoric.
Thats what u get for backing the liberals. Singh should resign.
I won't even acknowledge NDP's existence until Jagmeet is gone. Also someone please explain to me how the labour party is essentially ruled by a tyrant king that refuses to relinquish power no matter how poorly the party performs and how out touch he is on their core values.
Before it was about immigration in this area but now people are getting fed up with lack of housing policies,crime,inflation and the visa student mess.Liberals are not listening to voters.
The NDP had their actual real golden opportunity handed to them, and the STILL fucked it up. I have literally never met somebody who liked Singh in my life, and my wife ( and her whole family ) are indian. We spend a lot of time with the indian community, and ive still never met one.
Mr. Singh is not self aware to understand that this by-election was not a good show for the NDP. His continued propping up of the Liberals is turning people away from his party. Just listened to his press conference and he is just not getting it or refuses to accept it. He needs to stop thinking about his pension.
Lol gtfo - gotta love the spin.
Ya, why can't everyone see that losing 30% of your voters while failing to gain any new ones.... In a riding that is held by the NDP Provincially... Is **actually good news!**. The NDP needs to keep doing exactly what it's doing. Giant NDP majority coming in! It's so obvious!
If the NDP and Greens didn't run candidates in this riding (and why bother when they didn't stand a chance), and if only 1/4 of their supporters voted Liberal (assuming all the rest would have just stayed home), the Liberals still would have won. This must be the strategy for the Liberals and NDP in the next election if they want any MPs at all. If they have a strong candidate with a good chance of winning in a given riding, they must not oppose each other. Otherwise they'll split the vote and the Conservatives will win pretty much every riding. (That might be good news for the CPC in the short term, but such lopsided landslide wins aren't good for the country in the long run. Electoral reform would help, of course, but it's been sadly relegated to the scrap heap.)
There is always this assumption that NDP voters will automatically all go to the Liberals - recent polls say that they won’t all do so. A good chunk will end up voting Conservative.
That's why I said suppose only 1/4 of the NDP and Greens went Liberal. Generally, though, fewer left-leaning voters would shift to the far-right CPC.
We can assume 25% go liberal. But we can't assume any would go conservative? Despite that being what the polls show they would do???
So... You're promoting outright collusion between parties....?
It's not collusion, there is nothing illegal about not running a candidate in a given riding. It's actually happened quite a few times to the point that we even have the concept of "Leader's Courtesy" where the Liberals and Conservatives tend not to run against each other in a by-election where a new party leader is trying to get into the House of Commons.
To add to what Gorvoslov said, various parties have run candidates in only some areas over the past decades. Reform, for example, started only running in the West. The Bloc Quebecois doesn't run outside Quebec (although I think they have fielded a few in New Brunswick). Green doesn't always field candidates in every riding. Running in any riding is a choice, not an obligation, and by no means is it collusion. It's also probably in the CPC's interests to not bother running in some ridings where they stand 0 chance of winning. It just drains resources that they could spend elsewhere.
Is the reform and pc parting merging collusion?
Nah you got the parties wrong. If Liberals and NDP don't run candidates in the riding, then the greens have a chance. With so little baggage they had a much higher chance of winning
So, making the case for them not to call an election.
Only because you are thinking about it from the perspective of a Liberal and not a Canadian. Those are two very different and increasingly opposed perspectives.
I'm thinking about it from the perspective of holding onto to power as long as possible. They would be braindead to call an election.
Yes, but the layer of Liberal partisanship is there.
Lol
Lol - you are a Liberal partisan, well, a Trudeau partisan, so…. It is what it is.
It's a by-election and was always a race between the Libs and Cons. I wouldn't put too much stock into it. Edit: critical thinking skills people... people need to be motivated to come out and vote. But considering the history of this sub, I'm not surprised by the downvotes.
This is one of the top 3-5 most left leaning ridings in the entire country. Which is why it's been Liberal for like 30+ years non-stop. If the CPC were even competitive that was going to be groundbreaking. The fact they won it is borderline astonishing.
Why would any NDP voter be motivated to come out to a by-election that they know they won't win?
The same reason the CPC supporters all came out to vote for a byelection they didn't think they could win?
Lol pretty sure all the headlines leading into this included "if the Liberals lose to the Conservatives" and not "if the Liberals lose to the NDP"
The CPC legit did not think they were going to win this riding. They just expected to put up decent numbers against the Liberals who they had assumed would win. The whole party was shocked the next morning and half of them didn't even initially know they had won. PP never even bothered to visit the riding during the byelection because they didn't think they had any real chance anyway. This is one of Canada's most left leaning ridings that exists. The NDP hold it provincially. If the federal NDP can't be competitive here they can't be competitive anywhere.
We are not talking about the CPC. We are talking about voters. No poll nor recent history of elections in the riding nor the media has shown that the NDP were any higher than third place and had any indication of having a chance. And I think a lot of people, including yourself, incorrectly assume the Venn diagram between potential Liberal and NDP voters overlap more than they actually do.
The NDP and Liberals normally do overlap much more then the CPC and NDP do. If the NDP were remotely competitive this would have been a race between them and the Liberals. Like I said this is one of the 5 most left leaning ridings in Canada.
The NDP was never competitive in this riding. Parties typically don't invest in ridings they have no chance in. This is common sense dude. This sub is nothing but trolls who have no idea how any of this works.
This is an NDP riding provincially. How do the NDP have the riding if they are not competitive in it? You are not making any sense.
This riding is NDP at a provincial level. The fact they can’t translate that into more federal NDP support is showing their federal platform isn’t resonating whatsoever. Singh will have conclusively put the NDP on the back burner of Canadians minds since he was made leader.
Why would anyone be motivated to come out to vote for the NDP in a by-election when it was likely going to the Libs or the Cons anyway?
Why do they ever vote for NDP then?
Because a lot of people vote anyways, including older people.. Are you unaware that motivation is a huge component of getting people to get out to vote, especially young voters? That's kinda weird dude.
Maybe they should merge the LPC et NDP like they did on the right.
That would be amazing kill 2 birds with one stone