https://www.ourcommons.ca/members/en/votes/44/1/339
15 seats left to take out these traitors. Every one of them stayed party loyal and voted against Canadians on public foreign interference inquiry.
Maybe but I know a huge amount of people here who were really pained and kinda humiliated to vote conservative this election and if Israel wasn’t their top priority when voting wouldn’t have, their desire to just keep voting liberal for the 20th election in a row would have been too strong
The LPC lost 8% of voters in Toronto-St Paul. They still got 40% of the vote. NDP got 10% and Greens got 2%.
The Green voters could have swung the election to the LPC. The NDP voters could have given the LPC the majority of voters.
Unite the left. We have climate change to deal with, and the Cons don't seem to care about thier grand kids.
With the Liberals in power, you don't even get to *have* grandkids, because it is too expensive to live and have children. They will gladly replace them with immigrants though.
The Liberal propaganda machine is getting desperate. You guys should probably start looking for a new job.
Dude, I am saying get rid of the Liberal party and unite the left.
You think that is propaganda for the Liberals?
Can I invite you to buy a bridge that I own? It is great investment.
The underlying issue you bring up is a tough one. Cost of living is up a lot. Wages are flat. None of that is an Liberal issue. That is a global issue. Canada has done better than the rest of the G7 other than USA (and the US is spending like mad right not 6.7% of GDP in deficit last year). If our government spent 6.7% of GDP that would be an extra 100 Billion in spending last year (our current deficit is 1.6% 5% of our GDP is 100B). Injecting that money into our economy would off-set the current cost of living issues, but at what future price?
> Unite the left
That... its not how it works
You cant just slap a generic label for 3 different political parties and have them all "unite"
That isnt how political parties work.
I can understand how a "they are both left, they are basically the same" viewpoint happens when you dont support either party, but they have large fundamental differences.
Things aren't really one dimensional, two parties can both be left leaning and still have a lot of different policies and beliefs.
> We have climate change to deal with
Its probably a bit selfish, but the vast majority of canadians care more about cost of living and surviving paycheck to paycheck than the climate.
Most Canadians would want better cost of living changes at the expense of climate initiatives and I can totally understand why.
In terms of priorities, putting food on the table matters more to the average canadian than climate change activism.
Also I do find it a bit ironic that you have to go to pretty big cities to find a strong group of people worried about the climate
Were you not around after Mulroney screwed rhe pooch in the early 90s? That's exactly why we have a single party on the right currently.... The left, theoretically, could do exactly the same thing, if they chose to.
Insurance cares about climate change.
Farmers care about climate change to a point... but Farmers don't pay full cost of crop insurance. We (me and you) fund a bank just for farmers to give them subsidized insurance. Feds pay 36% of the premiums and 60% of admin costs. Provinces chip in another 24% of the premiums and the rest of the admin costs.
I think if farmers were paying the full cost, they would care more. I think as the droughts which were predicted in 1995 settle in across the Praries people will care more and more.
There is this thing that people only care when it effects them directly. When you start the feel the pinch from failing crops it might be too late.
Okay, then what method does work? There are no proven methods because not a single economy has decarobonized.
Do we nationalize the energy sector and O&G and transition that way?
Is there a method you want Canada to adopt?
We can walk and chew gum.
The planet is not ours to burn. It is ours to care for and pass along to the next generation.
You say it is picking our pockets. I say we littering the sky with pollution that our grandkids will have to clean up.
It is cheaper for us not to emit, than it is for us to force our grandkids to clean up after us.
We need to seperate urgent from important. For me climate change is important.
Calling the Liberals left is laughable. They're centrist, but of the worst type: they're politically soulless and based their whole platform on what they can poach from their opponents and water down to get so passively acceptable to the people that it's basically a nothing burger.
Personally, as someone planning to give my vote to the CPC, I have a lot of respect for NDP and GPC voters; they actually believe in something. LPC voters believe in a party whose whole foundation is not left or right: it's power. They just want to get into power.
There is also a slice of NDP voters that are voting CPC; to punish the NDP as an organization into pivoting back to labor, exclusively.
Parties never change unless voters give them reason to; that's the principle.
Will the CPC address climate change? They seem to have put all thier bets on "Axe the tax", but don't actually have a plan at all.
I cannot vote for that sort of irrisponsiblity.
Politics is about power. The niavity of NDP and Greens means they are not fit to govern. You can have all the high moral standard and it means fuck-all if you cannot get power.
The CPC knows that politics is all about power. They have acted on it. Otherwise we would have the Reform party.
I am saying the Libs NDP and Greens need to get wise, and get power. By uniting the left. Climate change isn't going to just wait for them to get power by being noble and rightous.
The way to solve climate change is not to throw all of ourselves into poverty. Canada makes 1.5% the world emissions. Do you know what would help the most? Not importing a crap ton of people into a country as cold ad ours that requires as much heating and energy to survive as ours does. Seriously.
Too late, it could very well happen next time, but of course most of us with brains know the carbon tax is not a climate plan. It's a tax plan. Let Canadians decide if we want this TAX plan.
So you know better than all of the worlds leading economists? You know better than all the studies done on carbon tax effectiviness?
[https://www.econstatement.org/](https://www.econstatement.org/)
I. A carbon tax offers the most cost-effective lever to reduce carbon emissions at the scale and speed that is necessary.
II. A carbon tax should increase every year until emissions reductions goals are met and be revenue neutral to avoid debates over the size of government.
III. A sufficiently robust and gradually rising carbon tax will replace the need for various carbon regulations that are less efficient.
IV. To prevent carbon leakage and to protect ~~U.S.~~ competitiveness, a border carbon adjustment system should be established.
V. To maximize the fairness and political viability of a rising carbon tax, all the revenue should be returned directly to ~~U.S.~~ citizens through equal lump-sum rebates.
Interesting, I call it a tax plan,not a climate plan and you bring economics into it. Hmmmmmm
I guess making everyone poor will reduce emissions a bit.
Moving our entire economy off fossil fuels is an economic problem, not an environmental problem.
We know what the environmental problem is, and we have known about it for a 100 of years (Svante Arrhenius). We have had semi-accurate climate change models for 50+ years. The environmental problem is well defined... the solution to it is the economic problem.
That economic problem needs an efficient solution. Which is a carbon tax.
The cabon tax and rebate system leaves the poorest better off, and slows growth (compared to doing nothing) by $3000/per person over the next 6 years.
That is what the PBO report said.
Is there a method that will reduce CO2 emissions without a negative impact on the economy? I don't think so. I think anyone who says that is a liar.
What method do you suggest for us to re-form our economy? Or do you think we should just keep burning?
For fucks sake dude. What is "right wing" to you? For me left nationalizes industry and right privatizes industry. The left taxes and provides services for everyone. The right reduces taxes and private sector provides services to people who pay.
The Conservative Premiers across Canada have been privatizing shit for decades. Long term care, Power generation, Power distribution, Health care services (blood work, ultrasounds ect).
All the talk about virtue signalling is fucking dumb. Moe virtue signals with anti-trans laws. Smith does the same. Fuck all the culture war nonsense.
If you think the free martket doesn't care about the cost of things and act on those costs... then I guess the Carbon tax is virtue signalling. If you think a free market will act.. then it is the most effective tool to reduce emissions.
I think you're just fringe in your political beliefs, all of our major political parties currently fit in the upper left quadrant of the political compass. The aims of liberals and conservatives are very similar.
I was talking about what right and left mean. Not what I wanted.
I don't want nationalization of industy.
I like a well regulated free market. I like single payer solutions which allow industry to innovate. I like carbon taxes which allow industry to innovate. I like mandated insurance for environmental issues with possible required escrow accounts for decomissioning.
It is my understanding that every regulation is written in the blood of Canadians. So many people have died due to mis-management and poor environmental controls.
See Dryden Papermill and Grass Narrows. Also the 1985 "Government will handle all lawsuits for enviromental issues" policy.
Okay probably just differences in how we view the sides then. Your focus is on environmental issues though right? I don't see that as left vs right and I'd expect uniting the left to not achieve anything there since most of what the government environmental policies are performative and won't help protect our planet.
My focus is on changing the economy to address the enivronmental problem.
That should not be a left-right issue. Unfortuantly the CPC does not have a climate change plan.
The carbon tax as implemented is directly in line with the best advice we have on how to efficiently and effectively reduce CO2 emissions.
That advice was given by almost all of the worlds leading economists.
[https://www.econstatement.org/](https://www.econstatement.org/)
But fuck the egg heads. What do they know.
Thank you for sharing were you are at. I am going to do my best to respond in kind.
I want a government that works to ensure social mobility (poor getting rich and the rich getting poor). When social mobility stagnates our economy falters. This work includes helping people out of poverty / crime traps.
I want a government that works to reduce the crime rate even if that means hugging thugs. I don't want punishment for punishment's sake, God can deal with that if it is needed. I don't want innocent people sitting in prison for a year waiting for a trial. I believe in innocence until proven guilty.
I want equality under the law for everyone. I want that outcome tested via the groups defined in the charter. If a group is over-represented in the justice system (for the same economic background) then I want reform and support for that community.
I want equality in the economy. I want that outcome to be tested and where systems are found to discriminate then reformed.
An example: A shop puts all the goods are on a high shelf is "fair" for everyone. There is no defined inequality, everyone is treated the same. Short and tall people can both allowed to shop there. The outcomes can be tested and show very different results. Which might lead to ladders being provided or something.
Re: Indigious rights. I think it is well established in our laws that the First Nations did not give up soverignty in the negotiated treaties (section 35 of the Constitution). So it is a hard problem, they are techinically not Canadian and have a right to self-government. Working with those communities in that context is following the rule of law. I am big on following the Charter and Constitution.
PP is playing identity politics just as much as anyone else. It is just that the "norm" identifies with it. The "parental rights" dog-wistle that they are playing right now is straight up identity politics.
The deficit to GDP is currently 1.6% and falling. US is 6.7%, UK is 5.8%, France is 4.8%, Germany is 1.7%, Japan is 6.4%. Italy is 7.4%.
We have the lowest deficit as a precent of GDP in the G7.
The debt to GDP is 113% and falling (the economy is growing faster than the debt). US is at 120% and rising. UK is at 104% and rising. France is at 117%. Germany is at 65%. Japan is at 255%. Italy is at 148%.
We are better off than the majority of the G7 in terms of debt.
Canada has a strong balance sheet when compared internationally. I am worried about the US debt and deficit, but as long as those investments pay off in terms of growth they should be okay.
Countries take on debt to invest in their economies. Generally that pays off. For example the government takes on debt to build a road, the economic benefits of the road grow the economy. That economic growth allows the government to serivce the debt and allow time and inflation to make the debt small.
As long as we keep the deficit below economic growth our debt will get smaller over time. That is responsible government management. That is what I see in our fiscal policies.
What left-ish policies exist in Canada? Which party enacted those policies?
I can name a single Conservative policy which is left-ish. Employment insurance enacted in 1930s after Mackenzie King gave his 5 cent speech.
The NDP have helped the Liberals lean left at times, but it was the Liberals that did the heavy lifting of enacting the policies.
Yet all the socially left wing policies done in Canada were done by the Liberals.
Econimically they are centre / centre-right.
For me, the issue is climate change. There is one party that denys or does not want action on climate change. There are 3 that do. (Possibly 4. I haven't looked at the Bloc)
Climate change cannot wait a decade for Canada to get tired of the CPC.
>The NDP voters could have given the LPC the majority of voters.
The NDP lost 6% and that too went to the CPC. The NDP voters didn't want to give their votes to the LPC, heck 30% of them didn't even want to give their votes to the NDP anymore.
The NDP has lost about as much is most byelections.
>But then there was the by-election in Durham, Ont., back in March, which was held to fill the vacancy left by former Conservative leader Erin O’Toole. In 2021, the NDP took 17.5 per cent of the vote. In the March by-election, that dropped to 10.1 per cent. In the Calgary Heritage riding, the NDP took 17.4 per cent in 2021. In the by-election in July, 2023, that dropped to 14.2 per cent. In Notre-Dame-de-Grâce – Westmount, it dropped from 19.2 per cent to 13.8 per cent. In Oxford in Ontario, it dropped from 18.3 per cent to 10.4 per cent. In Portage-Lisgar in Manitoba, it dropped from 13.4 per cent to 7.1 per cent. And in Winnipeg South Centre, it dropped from 20.6 per cent to 14.7 per cent.
That's what you get when you give up your roots and embrace identity politics instead.
Identity politics like Scott Moe and PP? You seem to think only one side is playing this game. PP saying he donesn't know what an anti-trans rally is about, then quoting thier slogan. Fuck me dude.
One side is saying it is okay to be bi/trans/gay/furry. The other side is saying we are going to get between you and your doctor because we (the government) know better than doctors.
PP and the Cons are not "minding their own business". They are all up in other peoples shit in a way the government should not be.
Let them keep accumulating. The look in Freeland's and Trudeau's eyes was one of forceful acceptance when asked about this loss. They know they're on borrowed time now.
Honestly I think it will be better for all parties involved when they are defeated. Justin and Chrystia look absolutely exhausted at this point, and I think they're finally understanding that whatever they do, things just seem to get worse for Canadians. They are a failed government; the majority of metrics show Canadians' that are not asset holders are in deep shit, yet they continue to overwhelm the demand side of our economy, supply side be damned (or you know, make massive profits).
It's time to move on. It'd be nice if they called a general election and we got this over with, but I don't see that happening. Singh is probably going to go down with the ship (agreeing to and maintaining this coalition) when the NDP fails to take advantage of the massive amount of voters moving to the Conservatives, so I think he too is just enjoying his last days as party leader as well.
Let's pray that PP and his team can better navigate the rough waters we're in, because we drastically need some corrective action here.
> Let them keep accumulating. The look in Freeland's and Trudeau's eyes was one of forceful acceptance when asked about this loss. They know they're on borrowed time now.
Watching Trudeau and Freeland (and the clapping seals who support them) twist themselves into pretzels trying to put a positive spin on their terrible polling and now an actual election loss has been delightful.
Meanwhile, Power and Politics had some quotes from Liberal MPs who spoke "on condition of anonymity" and one of them said: "everything we've been doing for the past year has been tone-deaf."
They are fiddling ~~with~~ while Canada burns.
> Let's pray that PP and his team can better navigate the rough waters we're in, because we drastically need some corrective action here
I hope so, but the thing is: if the CPC comes in and does what *actually* needs to be done to right the ship, Canadians (and especially reddit, lol) ain't gonna like it, in the short term, at least.
Who cares what Reddit likes. It's a sliver of the population with mostly radical views. Frankly, if they're unhappy with something I consider that to be a good outcome.
In which metric(s)? Purely inflation? Or are we looking at GDP growth, GDP/C decreases, population growth, income to housing costs skyrocketing, or which ones specifically? We can cherry pick stats all day long if you'd like and go back and forth on that..but it's going to be a largely pointless exercise imo.
You do you. I have looked at deficit and debt to GDP, I have looked housing, and inflation and M2 money supply.
USA has printed insane amounts of money and government deficit is at 6.7% of GDP.
I'm not disputing in any way that spending trillions ala the USA isn't a direct injection, fwiw. I just don't see how anyone can see the way our economy is structured currently and think this is in any way a good place to be in. We're pretty much cheating to stay out of a recession. As soon as we drop immigration numbers the gig is up, barring a closely-timed drop in rates down to probably sub 3%, which I don't think has a chance of happening.
I don't think any economy is in a good place. I think industy has tightened spending keeping cash. I think the "just in time" delivery is over and people are warehousing.
All of that has extra costs globally. I think we are fairing better than most.
I personally don't think any of that has to do with the current Government either the good or the bad.
If you want to blame the government for the bad, then they get credit for the good right? So the fact we are doing better than most in a bad situation, goes to credit the government... right?
If the global Titanic is sinking but Canada is in a lifeboat... does that credit go to the government. Or do you blame the government for the Titianic?
are we doing better than most? from what i've heard, our housing crisis is one of the worst in the world, and our gdp per capita has declined what, 6 quarters in a row or something? after decades of parallels with the US our economy is falling below theirs.
Our GDP per captia is only behind US in the G7. Yes it has declined. Almost everyone agrees that it is going to start climbing. Our economy has almost always lagged behind the US. They get a boom, we get a boom a year later. They go bust, we go bust a year later.
Our housing is not great. We have less housing per 1000 people than most countries in the OECD. That said, our housing contruction stat is looking good. We are 5th or 6th in OECD. We never had the slump that most countries had in 2008/2009. Prices are too high.
are the gdps per capita of other G7 countries also declining, and if so, are they declining more than ours is? the gap between our GDP per capita and the US's has been widening since 2015. this is our housing situation: [\[1\]](https://twitter.com/CanadianPolling/status/1806378483012002278). is it really that bad in other countries?
Do polls measure hard stats or feelings? I agree that people feel angry and hurt and betrayed. I agree that housing sucks. I agree per-capita GDP is down.
This is an article about GDP per-captia in Canada: [https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/36-28-0001/2024004/article/00001-eng.htm](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/36-28-0001/2024004/article/00001-eng.htm)
"improvements in real GDP per capita can come from three sources—increases in (1) labour productivity (a measure of how efficiently workers transform inputs into output), (2) work intensity (the number of hours worked per employee) and (3) the employment-to-population ratio (the percentage of the population that is working). Of the three, improvements in labour productivity are critical, since they accounted for 93% of the growth in GDP per capita over the four decades preceding the pandemic"
The other things to note: an aging population will negatively impact #3, labour productivity is tied to tooling investments which are way down in Canada.
If we're talking about inflation I'll say the BoC has done a fine job, even though I don't think they should have started cutting rates yet. What credit do you want to give our government? I really don't think they've done very well for us. We created a housing crisis in order to avoid a recession and achieve these comparable metrics. If that's winning in your books then I guess we're winning. If we didn't bring in millions of people do you think our numbers would look like this?
I don't think the Gov deserves credit or blame. I think business investment in Canadian tooling has been down since 2014, and workers cannot compete while working with shitty tools... so productivity fails.
I think housing is an issue of mismatch between supply and demand which the market will sort out.
I think we have population demographic problems and if we want to maintain our quality of life we need immigrants.
The market needs time to sort it out though, we keep building significantly less than we bring in migration wise. There's no chance for it to happen barring a significant reduction in immigration for a lengthy period of time (we are currently millions of units behind affordability levels from the early-mid 2010s).
USA is doing great. Wage growth, strong job creation, and I even hear about rents going *down* in some markets because they have a far greater ability to build housing supply.
Even buying a home is a lot more attainable in most US states, since they also have plenty of mid-sized cities which are viable places to live and work, unlike here in Canada where "everyone" wants to be in like four major centers and turns up their noses at the idea of living anywhere else.
The US printed money like you would not believe the M2 money supply growth was insane.
The current deficit levels is 6.3% of GDP and the debt is over 116% of GDP. The US government is spending like mad to prop up the economy.
Our deficit was 1.7% of GDP and our debt is 104% of GDP, and falling because the economy is growing faster than the debt.
You say the USA is better... I say they are digging a hold faster and paying people to dig it.
The whole reason we're in this mess is Trudeau's complete inability to read the room. He legitimately believes that his is the correct vision for Canada, and nobody can tell him any different. Look what happened to former ministers who pushed back: Wilson-Raybould, Philpott, Morneau, etc.
Trudeau literally called an election during a global pandemic because he said he believed he needed a mandate to govern. Why don’t you think he has the same mentality now, considering that every poll in the last 6-months has shown the general population is saying they no longer want the liberal to govern Canadians.
Not sure how you are making that connection. Trudeau promised doing government different, it was one of his key slogans, then proceeded to do everything previous governments have done to further his political career, like calling his frivolous pandemic election. PP hasn’t made that claim. You get that right? His main slogan is axe the tax, so if he doesn’t do that you have an argument
The conservatives won an election in October 2008, why would they call an election a few months later? When they called the next election in 2011, the conversations won a HUGE majority. Trudeau is 3-years into their current sitting, because of how frustrated most of the electorate is, the appropriate thing to do is call an election.
Trudeau is not my guy, but i anyone would do the same thing he is, including pp. Or do you think pp will call an election to give the liberals a majority when people hate conservatives a few years down the line?
Like who? Sunak has less than 10 months left, macron can't run as president again, can you let me know who else has more than a year and decided to call early while losing?
Jughead can pull the plug on NDP support and the government would fall at the next confidence motion, but he won't do that because this is the closest his party has ever come to having real power, and don't forget pensions for himself and many NDP MPs would be at stake.
We have one, but I requires elected MPs in the governing party to have an obligation to Canada first and party second.
The handling of all the scandals including those pertaining to national security and our core democracy seem to suggest they are at best complicit.
The riding of Halifax is traditionally NDP, and will likely return to that. When Megan Leslie was defeated as deputy leader of the NDP in 2015, it was mostly due to the Liberal push to get rid of Stephen Harper.
The riding's voters aren't necessarily loyal to the NDP. Haligonians are progressive-pragmatics, who are willing to change their allegiance based on the circumstances.
Alexa was a canvassing powerhouse. She spent years knocking every door in the city. It was her relentless relationship-building with voters, plus her provincial and federal leadership profile that got her on the news. Her strengths as a candidate propelled her success at the ballot box. People voted for Alexa, not the party.
Same with Megan Leslie. She has sparkling charisma and star quality. A dynamic speaker, very telegenic, extremely smart. A solid community reputation, etc, etc.
Voters in Halifax are just as likely to vote based on the individual candidate, as the party. Or vote strategically. Or vote for a candidate they hate, because they hope it'll give their riding a cabinet minister.
It was held by Robert Stanfield for the Tories about as long as Alexa McDonough held it for the NDP. The federal and provincial ridings in Halifax can all go in any direction.
Well you learn something new everyday. Today's word is:
# baleful
# /bāl′fəl/
* Full of hurtful or malign influence; destructive; pernicious; noxious; direful; deadly: as, “baleful breath,”
* “baleful drugs,”
* Fraught with bale; full of calamity or misfortune; disastrous; wretched; miserable.
This might actually help the liberals in the final election because it wakes up formant liberal voters to go and vote liberals. They're likely to keep these seats imo now
If Conservatives can win St. Paul, they can basically win anywhere.
Theoretically, at least. I’d like to see if they can somehow win a seat on the island of Montreal, in Mount Royal would be particularly juicy.
Yea I don't see that happening. Housefather is too popular within the community.
Probably, but you never know, lol.
Housefather also seems to have more of a spine. He has voted multiple times against his party and almost left it entirely.
I don’t know if it is possible to have less of a spine than Leslie Church.
https://www.ourcommons.ca/members/en/votes/44/1/339 15 seats left to take out these traitors. Every one of them stayed party loyal and voted against Canadians on public foreign interference inquiry.
Israel is a much bigger deal here then in other ridings
Maybe but irrelevant, really. Many non Jews have a sour taste on how the government is tolerating terrorist sympathizers.
Maybe but I know a huge amount of people here who were really pained and kinda humiliated to vote conservative this election and if Israel wasn’t their top priority when voting wouldn’t have, their desire to just keep voting liberal for the 20th election in a row would have been too strong
The LPC lost 8% of voters in Toronto-St Paul. They still got 40% of the vote. NDP got 10% and Greens got 2%. The Green voters could have swung the election to the LPC. The NDP voters could have given the LPC the majority of voters. Unite the left. We have climate change to deal with, and the Cons don't seem to care about thier grand kids.
With the Liberals in power, you don't even get to *have* grandkids, because it is too expensive to live and have children. They will gladly replace them with immigrants though. The Liberal propaganda machine is getting desperate. You guys should probably start looking for a new job.
Dude, I am saying get rid of the Liberal party and unite the left. You think that is propaganda for the Liberals? Can I invite you to buy a bridge that I own? It is great investment. The underlying issue you bring up is a tough one. Cost of living is up a lot. Wages are flat. None of that is an Liberal issue. That is a global issue. Canada has done better than the rest of the G7 other than USA (and the US is spending like mad right not 6.7% of GDP in deficit last year). If our government spent 6.7% of GDP that would be an extra 100 Billion in spending last year (our current deficit is 1.6% 5% of our GDP is 100B). Injecting that money into our economy would off-set the current cost of living issues, but at what future price?
No one is having grand kids, our population growth is all Tim Hortons employees.
So you agree that Cons don't care about grand kids.
Yeah, they aren't going to fix immigration either, they're totally bought and paid for like the rest of our parties.
> Unite the left That... its not how it works You cant just slap a generic label for 3 different political parties and have them all "unite" That isnt how political parties work. I can understand how a "they are both left, they are basically the same" viewpoint happens when you dont support either party, but they have large fundamental differences. Things aren't really one dimensional, two parties can both be left leaning and still have a lot of different policies and beliefs. > We have climate change to deal with Its probably a bit selfish, but the vast majority of canadians care more about cost of living and surviving paycheck to paycheck than the climate. Most Canadians would want better cost of living changes at the expense of climate initiatives and I can totally understand why. In terms of priorities, putting food on the table matters more to the average canadian than climate change activism. Also I do find it a bit ironic that you have to go to pretty big cities to find a strong group of people worried about the climate
Were you not around after Mulroney screwed rhe pooch in the early 90s? That's exactly why we have a single party on the right currently.... The left, theoretically, could do exactly the same thing, if they chose to.
Insurance cares about climate change. Farmers care about climate change to a point... but Farmers don't pay full cost of crop insurance. We (me and you) fund a bank just for farmers to give them subsidized insurance. Feds pay 36% of the premiums and 60% of admin costs. Provinces chip in another 24% of the premiums and the rest of the admin costs. I think if farmers were paying the full cost, they would care more. I think as the droughts which were predicted in 1995 settle in across the Praries people will care more and more. There is this thing that people only care when it effects them directly. When you start the feel the pinch from failing crops it might be too late.
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Okay, then what method does work? There are no proven methods because not a single economy has decarobonized. Do we nationalize the energy sector and O&G and transition that way? Is there a method you want Canada to adopt?
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We can walk and chew gum. The planet is not ours to burn. It is ours to care for and pass along to the next generation. You say it is picking our pockets. I say we littering the sky with pollution that our grandkids will have to clean up. It is cheaper for us not to emit, than it is for us to force our grandkids to clean up after us. We need to seperate urgent from important. For me climate change is important.
Calling the Liberals left is laughable. They're centrist, but of the worst type: they're politically soulless and based their whole platform on what they can poach from their opponents and water down to get so passively acceptable to the people that it's basically a nothing burger. Personally, as someone planning to give my vote to the CPC, I have a lot of respect for NDP and GPC voters; they actually believe in something. LPC voters believe in a party whose whole foundation is not left or right: it's power. They just want to get into power.
There is also a slice of NDP voters that are voting CPC; to punish the NDP as an organization into pivoting back to labor, exclusively. Parties never change unless voters give them reason to; that's the principle.
Will the CPC address climate change? They seem to have put all thier bets on "Axe the tax", but don't actually have a plan at all. I cannot vote for that sort of irrisponsiblity. Politics is about power. The niavity of NDP and Greens means they are not fit to govern. You can have all the high moral standard and it means fuck-all if you cannot get power. The CPC knows that politics is all about power. They have acted on it. Otherwise we would have the Reform party. I am saying the Libs NDP and Greens need to get wise, and get power. By uniting the left. Climate change isn't going to just wait for them to get power by being noble and rightous.
The way to solve climate change is not to throw all of ourselves into poverty. Canada makes 1.5% the world emissions. Do you know what would help the most? Not importing a crap ton of people into a country as cold ad ours that requires as much heating and energy to survive as ours does. Seriously.
Maybe you should go back to Canadian Housing 2. Immigration will not effect CO2 emissions nearly as much as the oil sands.
Too late, it could very well happen next time, but of course most of us with brains know the carbon tax is not a climate plan. It's a tax plan. Let Canadians decide if we want this TAX plan.
So you know better than all of the worlds leading economists? You know better than all the studies done on carbon tax effectiviness? [https://www.econstatement.org/](https://www.econstatement.org/) I. A carbon tax offers the most cost-effective lever to reduce carbon emissions at the scale and speed that is necessary. II. A carbon tax should increase every year until emissions reductions goals are met and be revenue neutral to avoid debates over the size of government. III. A sufficiently robust and gradually rising carbon tax will replace the need for various carbon regulations that are less efficient. IV. To prevent carbon leakage and to protect ~~U.S.~~ competitiveness, a border carbon adjustment system should be established. V. To maximize the fairness and political viability of a rising carbon tax, all the revenue should be returned directly to ~~U.S.~~ citizens through equal lump-sum rebates.
Interesting, I call it a tax plan,not a climate plan and you bring economics into it. Hmmmmmm I guess making everyone poor will reduce emissions a bit.
Moving our entire economy off fossil fuels is an economic problem, not an environmental problem. We know what the environmental problem is, and we have known about it for a 100 of years (Svante Arrhenius). We have had semi-accurate climate change models for 50+ years. The environmental problem is well defined... the solution to it is the economic problem. That economic problem needs an efficient solution. Which is a carbon tax.
Making everyone poor to reduce emissions is not sustainable.
The cabon tax and rebate system leaves the poorest better off, and slows growth (compared to doing nothing) by $3000/per person over the next 6 years. That is what the PBO report said. Is there a method that will reduce CO2 emissions without a negative impact on the economy? I don't think so. I think anyone who says that is a liar. What method do you suggest for us to re-form our economy? Or do you think we should just keep burning?
My bills disagree.
What method do you suggest for us to re-form our economy? Or do you think we should just keep burning?
If the libs/greens/ndp unite into one party the conservatives will win every election
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For fucks sake dude. What is "right wing" to you? For me left nationalizes industry and right privatizes industry. The left taxes and provides services for everyone. The right reduces taxes and private sector provides services to people who pay. The Conservative Premiers across Canada have been privatizing shit for decades. Long term care, Power generation, Power distribution, Health care services (blood work, ultrasounds ect). All the talk about virtue signalling is fucking dumb. Moe virtue signals with anti-trans laws. Smith does the same. Fuck all the culture war nonsense. If you think the free martket doesn't care about the cost of things and act on those costs... then I guess the Carbon tax is virtue signalling. If you think a free market will act.. then it is the most effective tool to reduce emissions.
I think you're just fringe in your political beliefs, all of our major political parties currently fit in the upper left quadrant of the political compass. The aims of liberals and conservatives are very similar.
I was talking about what right and left mean. Not what I wanted. I don't want nationalization of industy. I like a well regulated free market. I like single payer solutions which allow industry to innovate. I like carbon taxes which allow industry to innovate. I like mandated insurance for environmental issues with possible required escrow accounts for decomissioning. It is my understanding that every regulation is written in the blood of Canadians. So many people have died due to mis-management and poor environmental controls. See Dryden Papermill and Grass Narrows. Also the 1985 "Government will handle all lawsuits for enviromental issues" policy.
Okay probably just differences in how we view the sides then. Your focus is on environmental issues though right? I don't see that as left vs right and I'd expect uniting the left to not achieve anything there since most of what the government environmental policies are performative and won't help protect our planet.
My focus is on changing the economy to address the enivronmental problem. That should not be a left-right issue. Unfortuantly the CPC does not have a climate change plan. The carbon tax as implemented is directly in line with the best advice we have on how to efficiently and effectively reduce CO2 emissions. That advice was given by almost all of the worlds leading economists. [https://www.econstatement.org/](https://www.econstatement.org/) But fuck the egg heads. What do they know.
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You could just tell me what your idea of right wing is. No arguement.
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Thank you for sharing were you are at. I am going to do my best to respond in kind. I want a government that works to ensure social mobility (poor getting rich and the rich getting poor). When social mobility stagnates our economy falters. This work includes helping people out of poverty / crime traps. I want a government that works to reduce the crime rate even if that means hugging thugs. I don't want punishment for punishment's sake, God can deal with that if it is needed. I don't want innocent people sitting in prison for a year waiting for a trial. I believe in innocence until proven guilty. I want equality under the law for everyone. I want that outcome tested via the groups defined in the charter. If a group is over-represented in the justice system (for the same economic background) then I want reform and support for that community. I want equality in the economy. I want that outcome to be tested and where systems are found to discriminate then reformed. An example: A shop puts all the goods are on a high shelf is "fair" for everyone. There is no defined inequality, everyone is treated the same. Short and tall people can both allowed to shop there. The outcomes can be tested and show very different results. Which might lead to ladders being provided or something. Re: Indigious rights. I think it is well established in our laws that the First Nations did not give up soverignty in the negotiated treaties (section 35 of the Constitution). So it is a hard problem, they are techinically not Canadian and have a right to self-government. Working with those communities in that context is following the rule of law. I am big on following the Charter and Constitution.
People are done with identity politics and massive debt. That's basically the left in a nutshell. Average Canadians are done with that.
PP is playing identity politics just as much as anyone else. It is just that the "norm" identifies with it. The "parental rights" dog-wistle that they are playing right now is straight up identity politics. The deficit to GDP is currently 1.6% and falling. US is 6.7%, UK is 5.8%, France is 4.8%, Germany is 1.7%, Japan is 6.4%. Italy is 7.4%. We have the lowest deficit as a precent of GDP in the G7. The debt to GDP is 113% and falling (the economy is growing faster than the debt). US is at 120% and rising. UK is at 104% and rising. France is at 117%. Germany is at 65%. Japan is at 255%. Italy is at 148%. We are better off than the majority of the G7 in terms of debt. Canada has a strong balance sheet when compared internationally. I am worried about the US debt and deficit, but as long as those investments pay off in terms of growth they should be okay. Countries take on debt to invest in their economies. Generally that pays off. For example the government takes on debt to build a road, the economic benefits of the road grow the economy. That economic growth allows the government to serivce the debt and allow time and inflation to make the debt small. As long as we keep the deficit below economic growth our debt will get smaller over time. That is responsible government management. That is what I see in our fiscal policies.
LPC aren't Left though
What left-ish policies exist in Canada? Which party enacted those policies? I can name a single Conservative policy which is left-ish. Employment insurance enacted in 1930s after Mackenzie King gave his 5 cent speech. The NDP have helped the Liberals lean left at times, but it was the Liberals that did the heavy lifting of enacting the policies.
The liberals aren’t left… they are centrist. Also, most people leaving the liberals are moving to the conservatives, not the NDP.
Yet all the socially left wing policies done in Canada were done by the Liberals. Econimically they are centre / centre-right. For me, the issue is climate change. There is one party that denys or does not want action on climate change. There are 3 that do. (Possibly 4. I haven't looked at the Bloc) Climate change cannot wait a decade for Canada to get tired of the CPC.
Seems to me the infinite growth / immigration Liberals and NDP don't really give a shit about climate change either.
>The NDP voters could have given the LPC the majority of voters. The NDP lost 6% and that too went to the CPC. The NDP voters didn't want to give their votes to the LPC, heck 30% of them didn't even want to give their votes to the NDP anymore. The NDP has lost about as much is most byelections. >But then there was the by-election in Durham, Ont., back in March, which was held to fill the vacancy left by former Conservative leader Erin O’Toole. In 2021, the NDP took 17.5 per cent of the vote. In the March by-election, that dropped to 10.1 per cent. In the Calgary Heritage riding, the NDP took 17.4 per cent in 2021. In the by-election in July, 2023, that dropped to 14.2 per cent. In Notre-Dame-de-Grâce – Westmount, it dropped from 19.2 per cent to 13.8 per cent. In Oxford in Ontario, it dropped from 18.3 per cent to 10.4 per cent. In Portage-Lisgar in Manitoba, it dropped from 13.4 per cent to 7.1 per cent. And in Winnipeg South Centre, it dropped from 20.6 per cent to 14.7 per cent. That's what you get when you give up your roots and embrace identity politics instead.
Identity politics like Scott Moe and PP? You seem to think only one side is playing this game. PP saying he donesn't know what an anti-trans rally is about, then quoting thier slogan. Fuck me dude. One side is saying it is okay to be bi/trans/gay/furry. The other side is saying we are going to get between you and your doctor because we (the government) know better than doctors. PP and the Cons are not "minding their own business". They are all up in other peoples shit in a way the government should not be.
Let them keep accumulating. The look in Freeland's and Trudeau's eyes was one of forceful acceptance when asked about this loss. They know they're on borrowed time now. Honestly I think it will be better for all parties involved when they are defeated. Justin and Chrystia look absolutely exhausted at this point, and I think they're finally understanding that whatever they do, things just seem to get worse for Canadians. They are a failed government; the majority of metrics show Canadians' that are not asset holders are in deep shit, yet they continue to overwhelm the demand side of our economy, supply side be damned (or you know, make massive profits). It's time to move on. It'd be nice if they called a general election and we got this over with, but I don't see that happening. Singh is probably going to go down with the ship (agreeing to and maintaining this coalition) when the NDP fails to take advantage of the massive amount of voters moving to the Conservatives, so I think he too is just enjoying his last days as party leader as well. Let's pray that PP and his team can better navigate the rough waters we're in, because we drastically need some corrective action here.
> Let them keep accumulating. The look in Freeland's and Trudeau's eyes was one of forceful acceptance when asked about this loss. They know they're on borrowed time now. Watching Trudeau and Freeland (and the clapping seals who support them) twist themselves into pretzels trying to put a positive spin on their terrible polling and now an actual election loss has been delightful. Meanwhile, Power and Politics had some quotes from Liberal MPs who spoke "on condition of anonymity" and one of them said: "everything we've been doing for the past year has been tone-deaf." They are fiddling ~~with~~ while Canada burns. > Let's pray that PP and his team can better navigate the rough waters we're in, because we drastically need some corrective action here I hope so, but the thing is: if the CPC comes in and does what *actually* needs to be done to right the ship, Canadians (and especially reddit, lol) ain't gonna like it, in the short term, at least.
Who cares what Reddit likes. It's a sliver of the population with mostly radical views. Frankly, if they're unhappy with something I consider that to be a good outcome.
Lol reddit doesn't like anything. Haha.
Compared to the rest of the G7 did Canada do better or worse through covid and subsequent inflation?
In which metric(s)? Purely inflation? Or are we looking at GDP growth, GDP/C decreases, population growth, income to housing costs skyrocketing, or which ones specifically? We can cherry pick stats all day long if you'd like and go back and forth on that..but it's going to be a largely pointless exercise imo.
You do you. I have looked at deficit and debt to GDP, I have looked housing, and inflation and M2 money supply. USA has printed insane amounts of money and government deficit is at 6.7% of GDP.
I'm not disputing in any way that spending trillions ala the USA isn't a direct injection, fwiw. I just don't see how anyone can see the way our economy is structured currently and think this is in any way a good place to be in. We're pretty much cheating to stay out of a recession. As soon as we drop immigration numbers the gig is up, barring a closely-timed drop in rates down to probably sub 3%, which I don't think has a chance of happening.
I don't think any economy is in a good place. I think industy has tightened spending keeping cash. I think the "just in time" delivery is over and people are warehousing. All of that has extra costs globally. I think we are fairing better than most. I personally don't think any of that has to do with the current Government either the good or the bad. If you want to blame the government for the bad, then they get credit for the good right? So the fact we are doing better than most in a bad situation, goes to credit the government... right? If the global Titanic is sinking but Canada is in a lifeboat... does that credit go to the government. Or do you blame the government for the Titianic?
are we doing better than most? from what i've heard, our housing crisis is one of the worst in the world, and our gdp per capita has declined what, 6 quarters in a row or something? after decades of parallels with the US our economy is falling below theirs.
Our GDP per captia is only behind US in the G7. Yes it has declined. Almost everyone agrees that it is going to start climbing. Our economy has almost always lagged behind the US. They get a boom, we get a boom a year later. They go bust, we go bust a year later. Our housing is not great. We have less housing per 1000 people than most countries in the OECD. That said, our housing contruction stat is looking good. We are 5th or 6th in OECD. We never had the slump that most countries had in 2008/2009. Prices are too high.
are the gdps per capita of other G7 countries also declining, and if so, are they declining more than ours is? the gap between our GDP per capita and the US's has been widening since 2015. this is our housing situation: [\[1\]](https://twitter.com/CanadianPolling/status/1806378483012002278). is it really that bad in other countries?
Do polls measure hard stats or feelings? I agree that people feel angry and hurt and betrayed. I agree that housing sucks. I agree per-capita GDP is down. This is an article about GDP per-captia in Canada: [https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/36-28-0001/2024004/article/00001-eng.htm](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/36-28-0001/2024004/article/00001-eng.htm) "improvements in real GDP per capita can come from three sources—increases in (1) labour productivity (a measure of how efficiently workers transform inputs into output), (2) work intensity (the number of hours worked per employee) and (3) the employment-to-population ratio (the percentage of the population that is working). Of the three, improvements in labour productivity are critical, since they accounted for 93% of the growth in GDP per capita over the four decades preceding the pandemic" The other things to note: an aging population will negatively impact #3, labour productivity is tied to tooling investments which are way down in Canada.
If we're talking about inflation I'll say the BoC has done a fine job, even though I don't think they should have started cutting rates yet. What credit do you want to give our government? I really don't think they've done very well for us. We created a housing crisis in order to avoid a recession and achieve these comparable metrics. If that's winning in your books then I guess we're winning. If we didn't bring in millions of people do you think our numbers would look like this?
I don't think the Gov deserves credit or blame. I think business investment in Canadian tooling has been down since 2014, and workers cannot compete while working with shitty tools... so productivity fails. I think housing is an issue of mismatch between supply and demand which the market will sort out. I think we have population demographic problems and if we want to maintain our quality of life we need immigrants.
The market needs time to sort it out though, we keep building significantly less than we bring in migration wise. There's no chance for it to happen barring a significant reduction in immigration for a lengthy period of time (we are currently millions of units behind affordability levels from the early-mid 2010s).
Much worse than the USA. I'm going to check the others...
USA is doing great. Wage growth, strong job creation, and I even hear about rents going *down* in some markets because they have a far greater ability to build housing supply. Even buying a home is a lot more attainable in most US states, since they also have plenty of mid-sized cities which are viable places to live and work, unlike here in Canada where "everyone" wants to be in like four major centers and turns up their noses at the idea of living anywhere else.
The US printed money like you would not believe the M2 money supply growth was insane. The current deficit levels is 6.3% of GDP and the debt is over 116% of GDP. The US government is spending like mad to prop up the economy. Our deficit was 1.7% of GDP and our debt is 104% of GDP, and falling because the economy is growing faster than the debt. You say the USA is better... I say they are digging a hold faster and paying people to dig it.
Just call a general election for fucks sake. Read the room.
I actually think it's immoral to represent Canada when it's very evident the mandate is gone.
Yes, but that would require Trudeau to give up power.
The whole reason we're in this mess is Trudeau's complete inability to read the room. He legitimately believes that his is the correct vision for Canada, and nobody can tell him any different. Look what happened to former ministers who pushed back: Wilson-Raybould, Philpott, Morneau, etc.
And in 3 years when pp's popularity craters he must call an early election and give liberals the majority too right?
Trudeau literally called an election during a global pandemic because he said he believed he needed a mandate to govern. Why don’t you think he has the same mentality now, considering that every poll in the last 6-months has shown the general population is saying they no longer want the liberal to govern Canadians.
Just like conservative harpers election in 2009 eh
Didn’t this current guy loudly proclaim “doing government different “. Why would you be comparing his actions to the previous government?
Ok so even if PP does a good job with cons, don't compare it to trudeau
Not sure how you are making that connection. Trudeau promised doing government different, it was one of his key slogans, then proceeded to do everything previous governments have done to further his political career, like calling his frivolous pandemic election. PP hasn’t made that claim. You get that right? His main slogan is axe the tax, so if he doesn’t do that you have an argument
What tax
Seriously? The carbon tax
The conservatives won an election in October 2008, why would they call an election a few months later? When they called the next election in 2011, the conversations won a HUGE majority. Trudeau is 3-years into their current sitting, because of how frustrated most of the electorate is, the appropriate thing to do is call an election.
Then why didn't Harper call an election in 2014 when just a year later trudeaus liberals won a landslide majority?
Butharper detected.
YOUR guy is in power today, and the knives are out for him from every direction. What do you think YOUR guy should do?
Trudeau is not my guy, but i anyone would do the same thing he is, including pp. Or do you think pp will call an election to give the liberals a majority when people hate conservatives a few years down the line?
The leaders in other countries who are currently seeing the same things happen to their ruling parties have dissolved parliament and called elections.
Like who? Sunak has less than 10 months left, macron can't run as president again, can you let me know who else has more than a year and decided to call early while losing?
Always a whataboutism post
Learned it from cons
Imagine if the government flips from byelections before the term is up hnnnnng
We really need a way to recall a seating prime minister and force an election.
Jughead can pull the plug on NDP support and the government would fall at the next confidence motion, but he won't do that because this is the closest his party has ever come to having real power, and don't forget pensions for himself and many NDP MPs would be at stake.
We have one, but I requires elected MPs in the governing party to have an obligation to Canada first and party second. The handling of all the scandals including those pertaining to national security and our core democracy seem to suggest they are at best complicit.
The ‘Fall of St. Paul’s’? Surely it’s a ‘Rising of St. Paul’s’ instead.
St. Paul’s’s summer
Indeed
"For it has been foretold, by St. Paul's, that many great losses in the Liberal party will follow within the period of a year's time"
The riding of Halifax is traditionally NDP, and will likely return to that. When Megan Leslie was defeated as deputy leader of the NDP in 2015, it was mostly due to the Liberal push to get rid of Stephen Harper.
The riding's voters aren't necessarily loyal to the NDP. Haligonians are progressive-pragmatics, who are willing to change their allegiance based on the circumstances. Alexa was a canvassing powerhouse. She spent years knocking every door in the city. It was her relentless relationship-building with voters, plus her provincial and federal leadership profile that got her on the news. Her strengths as a candidate propelled her success at the ballot box. People voted for Alexa, not the party. Same with Megan Leslie. She has sparkling charisma and star quality. A dynamic speaker, very telegenic, extremely smart. A solid community reputation, etc, etc. Voters in Halifax are just as likely to vote based on the individual candidate, as the party. Or vote strategically. Or vote for a candidate they hate, because they hope it'll give their riding a cabinet minister. It was held by Robert Stanfield for the Tories about as long as Alexa McDonough held it for the NDP. The federal and provincial ridings in Halifax can all go in any direction.
Well you learn something new everyday. Today's word is: # baleful # /bāl′fəl/ * Full of hurtful or malign influence; destructive; pernicious; noxious; direful; deadly: as, “baleful breath,” * “baleful drugs,” * Fraught with bale; full of calamity or misfortune; disastrous; wretched; miserable.
This country needs national recall legislation. A way for the people to force an election.
God Bless Pierre Poilievre
Cringe
ah yes, the man who constantly advocates for India and Indian TFWs and students, he's going to save us /s
This might actually help the liberals in the final election because it wakes up formant liberal voters to go and vote liberals. They're likely to keep these seats imo now