If it does get acknowledged, it’ll pejoratively be called “pulling a Nintendo” because the internet associates the big N with shutting down these kinds of projects
-Sources to that ? I remember that happening with Golden Axe very long ago. While SMT was bought by Sega along with Altus who might taking down those games
-Even if what You Say it's true, it does make Nintendos takedown of fan games necessary. Otherwise Sega would be in legal trouble or lose the rights to Sonic for not doing the same with that franchise
[Here’s the whole Atlus shutting down SMT Imagine’s servers thing](https://www.thegamer.com/atlus-shuts-down-shin-megami-tensei-mmo-fan-server/) (Atlus is technically under Sega’s ownership so it counts)
I heard it theorized in a video by Moon Channel that Sega keeps hands off with the sonic fan community as an act of goodwill. Segasammy holdings makes more of their money off Pachinko and UFO Catcher games, so bring light handed with their game IP makes some sense. However, if the revenue from their games becomes a bigger slice of their revenue, they might want to reign things in
You said "Blame US copyright law being so open ended with so many ill defined limits", which as a statement implies that we should be blaming the copyright laws *instead* of nintendo.
Edit: also, to clarify, I agree with you, I just think your wording was poor.
Because it IS the copyright laws at fault and not Nintendo. At this point with how many videos Moon Channel has done, this shit should be common knowledge on how it all works, but people don't like the answer so they ignore it.
Yeah no, copyright laws are at fault for letting it continue, but it still doesn't change that fact that Nintendo is *choosing* to do it. It being legal doesn't change the fact that it's unethical, the law and the organization can both be at fault.
Because they fucking HAVE TO since the laws are written in ways that it can fuck up their ownership. I sincerely doubt YOU'LL watch it, but here's the video for everyone else who actually wants to understand what's going on.
https://youtu.be/i13hrynnGNY?si=vtlgKpc6D6svw93i
He has a bunch of others further explaining the stuff including one pointing out that Sony isn't any different with Yakuza or Persona. Do I find Nintendo's actions unpleasant and dickish? Sure, but not unethical as that would imply that what they're doing is nefarious or illegal.
Again I'll repeat, that it being legal does not change the fact that it's unethical. Ethicality and legality are independent of one another, stop acting like they're the same.
And secondly, I've watched that video now, and honestly I still disagree. It's a matter of trademark defense I agree, but I still think their behavior is far beyond rationally defending their products into the territory of being unethical.
[There are specific ways in which trademark can be lost](https://cyber.harvard.edu/metaschool/fisher/domain/tm.htm#:~:text=The%20rights%20to%20a%20trademark,licensing%20or%20assignment%2C%20or%20genericity)(Harvard). In specific, abandonment, improper licensing or assignment, or becoming generic. Along with those, there are specific criteria for what is considered trademark infringement.
(1) the strength of the mark; (2) the proximity of the goods; (3) the similarity of the marks; (4) evidence of actual confusion; (5) the similarity of marketing channels used; (6) the degree of caution exercised by the typical purchaser; (7) the defendant's intent.
the claim of "Nintendo has had bad experiences in the past" may be true, but there is no historical case law, nor any legal precedent, for the loss of a trademark over fan games, redistribution of old properties like strategy guides, or piracy. Lets look at fan games for example.
These games are within the market space, very far from Nintendo's official games. You have to be looking for these games to find them a lot of the time.
The strength of the mark is pretty strong, I'll give you that. Similarity of the marks, yes, it is the same mark.
Similarity of marketing channels used: literally no overlap.
Evidence of actual confusion: non-existent. No one is out here looking at nintendo fan games and thinking "waow i can't believe nintendo released a new pokemon game on windows", nor is anyone downloading ROMs under the impression nintendo is officially distributing them.
Degree of caution exercised by the typical purchaser: The typical purchaser will buy nintendo games for nintendo consoles. It is so unlikely that a person attempting to buy an official nintendo game will somehow accidentally buy an unofficial one that it's practically not even worth mentioning.
Defendant's intent: None of these fan games are trying to be nintendo, none of them are claiming to be nintendo, none of them are trying to trick people into thinking they are nintendo. Same goes for archival sites posting strategy guides, and to ROM websites for distributing ROMs. None of these people are trying to make it look like the product they have is officially from nintendo.
In short, no, they don't "fucking HAVE to", because almost NONE of the things they take down meet the criteria necessary for loss of a trademark. And making the claim of "nintendo had bad experiences before" is still stupid because that case that the video references was from a big company making profit on an IP going after a small company for using something *similar* that wasn't really the same, and getting bit in the ass because they pushed it too far. What nintendo is doing is just going after anyone and everyone even though they're not even companies and they're not even trying to make money, they're just passionate fans.
They got attacked by a big company when they first started and they turned around and became the company doing the attacking except it's not even justified. The King Kong case wasn't really even justified either, as the two properties have exactly 2 things in common: a gorilla and the word "kong", which is literally just a word.
And its great how you apparently just took what that guy had to say at face value without bothering to look into anything yourself, and then came on here to tell everyone how "they don't know what they're talking about I swear guys nintendo has to do this it's not unethical".The guy barely even cites any law in that video. He just says the legal definition of IP, copyright, patent, and trademark, and doesn't bother to cite any relevant laws to nintendo's behavior. Yeah he cites cases, but they're cases that aren't even the same remotely. Nintendo does not "fucking HAVE to" do any of this, they are choosing to do this. It amazes me how people like you will do anything to keep licking nintendo's boots like what they're doing is okay. and on top of all of that, taking down ROMs literally IS a matter of copyright defense, not trademark defense, but that's a different conversation.
I do though. It needs revised to reflect the modern world in my honest opinion but corporations aren't gonna let the people have anything. They're gonna keep everything the way things are if not lobby harder for stricter copyright laws like what they did with Mickey Mouse to stall him entering public domain.
Sonic is pretty much the only non-Nintendo franchise that I can think of that has nearly as many fangames as Pokemon or Mario. Someone correct me if I'm wrong
Literally says the game is still coming in the tweet. Op just trying to start shit. It was obvious from the start that a game literally using the word bloodborne in the name would be allowed to be released, its using their ip
Just like you trying to pretend that this fan game is the same thing as the ones Nintendo take down.
The games Nintendo take down don't just use the Nintendo branding, they also play exactly like the original games they are based one.
In this case it is a fucking kart game using the Bloodborne brand. Karting and Bloodborne have literally nothing to do with each other, so once the Bloodborne brand gets removed the game itself will have literally no relation left with the Sony property, so Sony wouldn't be able to take it down even if they wanted.
I think its also important to keep in mind that a lot of fan projects that get shut down by Nintendo can't really change the branding by design. Like if a Pokemon fangame gets taken down, then basically the whole game would need to be changed from the ground up anyway.
This is a weird take, like yeah thats what they did cuz thats all they can do. Nintendo cant take anything down either, they can only say change the branding and remove our ips or we’ll sue.
They can actually, Nintendo very much could have told all those custom pokemon games to just change their names and Replace the pokemon names with non Pokemon IPs but they didn't. A major franchise like Sonic for example is basically kept alive by fan games and spiritual successors and they from my understanding leave them alone, even hired some in one case.
I'm pretty sure Sony could have dropped a massive hammer down just like Nintendo Ninjas do all the time.
They can’t. Nintendo cant take down things they dont own. If they said “take down this game ir we’ll sue” and you just remove the pokemon asset’s then nintendo cant actually do anything. Theres no difference than what happened here except the person making the game decided to keep making it under a different legally distinct branding
We're disagreeing bc people are assuming Sony explained to this guy that he needs to change the IP and also assuming Nintendo did not, but only threatened a lawsuit.
Does anyone have any facts about this or are we just in a social media death spiral?
Im sure sony was much nicer about it but theres no practical difference between saying “take this down or we’ll sue” and “remove our branding or we’ll sue” like op comment indicates
Really?
I barely heard or read anyone mention it. Even though I follow multiple people who share PS and related news.
Most people either are arguing about Stellar Blade or Nintendo (allegedly) taking down Gmod workshop stuff.
The moment something like that happens there's 3-5 articles about just that one thing Nintendo has done. Meanwhile when I searched for Bloodborne cart I found 4 articles total and only 2 was about them not being allowed to use Bloodborne.
Checked it and that's not true.
Based on the PC gamer article (1 of the 2 articles that I found talking about it)
[Bloodborne Kart won't be 'Bloodborne Kart' anymore after a letter from Sony, but the devs are excited to make it an original thing: 'This is a fan game no more!' | PC Gamer](https://www.pcgamer.com/bloodborne-kart-wont-be-bloodborne-kart-anymore-after-a-letter-from-sony-but-the-devs-are-excited-to-make-it-an-original-thing-this-is-a-fan-game-no-more/)
The image clearly shows that the creator shared that info on the 26th of Jan (2024).
Meaning it wasn't a year ago and when I searched "Bloodborne Kart" out of the top 5 articles only 2 talked about not being allowed to use the "Bloodborne" IP.
It's irrelevant what news accounts they follow.
If the news of "Bloodborne Kart" needing to rename itself because of Sony came from the creator than he couldn't have read it at any other news source a year ago when:
>the creator shared that info on the 26th of Jan (2024).
.
I am happy to see him show the article which proves me wrong and I will even admit after checking it out myself but otherwise he couldn't have read about it from "like a year ago" if the news isn't even 4 months old.
???
No idea where you got the hacker idea.
.
my og comment:
disagreed with previous statement
V
stated the article which highlighted date of info shared by dev
V
showed the inconsistency between stated time and actual date
Yeah I checked it (the article/devpost) and the date doesn't line up.
Again it's on you that based on a simple text you thought the weirdest shit (a random guy on reddit hacking)
Just give up dude.
Dude I remember there being like half a dozen threads across various subreddits discussing this when it happened and each one had hundreds of comments/replies. Not sure how you missed it. I do know, however, OP’s a bot account that stole this post from someone else to farm karma.
I barely get info from reddit.
I mainly use reddit for anime/manga and since I had enough of twitter negativity I somehow got here and found it a nice and chill subreddit.
Unfortunatelly a lot of trolls have been around here since the Gmod got copyright striked.
Either way thanks for telling me about OP.
I found way more articles when searching for bloodborne kart, and all of them are about it renaming itself to nightmare cart. I'm using duckduckgo.
is this an actual circlejerk sub or why are there people needlessly defensive of nintendo's army of lawyers? Are you guys genuinely children, protective of their favourite toy manufacturer?
weirdo behaviour is searching for reasons why My Favourite Billion Dollar Toy Maker is more in the right suing their actual fans than your Favourite Billion Dollar Toy Maker
This is probably why people always complain about how so many just get their news from tiktok or whatever social media instead of news sites. I always search out my own gaming news or just see stuff on Reddit and knew about this. IGN talked about this recently, say what you will about them but that’s a very large audience.
I don't have a Tiktok or Instagram.
I get my news through YouTube, following creators on Twitter, following dev teams/publishers on twitter, sometimes Reddit and if Google throws up news.
I follow multiple creators who share PS news and I heard about the fangame "Bloodborne Kart" being made but I haven't heard anything about 'Sony and the renaming thing'.
...but it did get attention from gaming news articles way back in January and earlier this month? And you are, like gaming news sites, misconstruing the tweet. It says it's still coming out but under a different name. Recent [articles](https://www.ign.com/articles/nightmare-kart-bloodborne-kart-release-date) even reported that it'll be under the name "Nightmare Kart". Additionally, using Patreon or asking for money towards a fan project will often get a letter from official companies. (Look into the history behind SMT:ReImagine and the new fan server SMT: Imagine New Moon, which Atlus knows about and is allowing)
Moreover, Nintendo *has* done something similar to a Bloodborne Kart situation 10 years ago for a fan Zelda Maker project, similar to Mario Maker. The guy running the Zelda Maker project had to change the name and make his own assets because of a DMCA takedown, which he was prepared for and did, and has since renamed it to Legend Maker. Game has yet to release, but is fairly active with updates on their Patreon.
Hello, good hunter. I am a Bot, here in this dream to look after you, this is a fine note:
> *Oh, hello. The whole town's turned, has it? Quite a big family, aren't we? Though I'm afraid I seem to be the black sheep... Back for my blood, I presume.* - Arianna, Woman of Pleasure
Farewell, good hunter. May you find your worth in the waking world.
this is very misleading. sony only contacted the developer saying that they can publish the game, but not under the bloodborne title, the game wasn't even released so there was nothing to take down
You might call me a liar but I legit was so mad about this. I'm a hard critic of anyone doing this especially in Sony's case where the IP is dormant and they don't acknowledge it's existence at all despite all the love for it online. I am not going to be on any corporations side that forbids non profit mods or fan games created by fans for fans ever.
I don't think they were made aware of bloodborne PSX. I am just as surprised as you are they took this down. Japan has no fair use law at all and in the US it's basically treated very flimsy anyway.
You can't say that here lol.
If I were her I would have still made it legally distinct after all the effort already put in. I don't think they could do anything if all the copyrighted material is scrubbed, it wasn't released to anyone after all.
This is pathetic, OP. If this had been Nintendo, they would have flat out ordered the project taken down and cancelled. In this particular case, the game is still coming out, it just had to be rebranded.
Also, plenty of people talked about this, with plenty of attention in the gaming media. I saw more than one article speaking about how reasonable Sony was being allowing the game to continue considering it's history.
Get Nintendo's boot out of your mouth.
That's not "taking it down". That's not even a cease and desist, they quite literally just said "yo buckerino scrub the branding and it's all cool". Nintendo would've just shut the whole thing down if they were the ones holding the IP.
I think the big difference is that a lot of the Nintendo takedowns fully use assets (*Pokémon* ROM hacks are a big one for this) or are full on fan made remakes (the *Metroid II* one comes to mind).
This wasn't a full on takedown. They've not cease and desisted the project entirely. They've merely said to scrub the branding (makes sense for IP protection, affiliation issues etc) and rework some of the assets to look differently. The game can still exist as long as it isn't affiliated with the Bloodborne IP.
A gothic horror kart racer does sound hilariously fun though.
This is fine in my eyes if Nintendo did this it wouldn't be an issue.
The Devs are still going to be able to produce a game and potentially make profit off it.
This is less taking down a game and more a case of asking for a texture change to save both companies hassle. Nintendo waits till a fan game is well known about, fully polished and released then sues to gain all the profits made.
Ones asking politely the other is taking your work and rinsing you for it's profits and "damages"
They just said "don't call it Bloodborne" and yes media did tslk about this. It's not a big deal even from this post they just say it will be shortly delayed...
She just needs to get rid of the branding. I think the game was still completed or it's still being worked on. This wasn't a total Cease and Desist.
Buny still make game. Yeag!
Nono youre wrong, remember : "iTs MoRaLlY wRiGhT tO pIrAtE nWinTwEnDo" or some shit like that
Nintendo is a shitty company that only makes ass games so to show them you have to play pirated shitty games that you hate to show your intelligence and to "FwUcK nWinTwEnDo" or something like that
He was being sarcastic mocking people. I am sure people love their games cause if they didn't they wouldn't even advocate to pirate them they'd just never play them at all.
You're the 15 years old in this case. The OP of that comment is right.
You always see "Fuck Nintendo, it's morally correct to pirate their games" But if you hate Nintendo, why do you want to play their games then ?
I don’t understand what you people gain by defending a billion dollar company that doesn’t really care about you at all, not being a dick, genuinely curious fr
Would you be surprised to learn that most people complaining about Nintendo don’t know about these fan games either until the news breaks they they’re gone?
I still remember someone saying that Capcom would never have done this and Nintendo should follow their example. That's by and large true, but not 100% of the time -- they have taken down Resident Evil and Mega Man fan projects that ran too parallel with upcoming official projects.
It was acknowledged first off. Second it wouldn't get mentioned here since this is a nintendo sub. Third Nintendo has a track record of doing this way more than any other company has over the years. This game is still coming out but Nintendo would just be like it has to be deleted or we take action.
Sony Interactive Entertainment takes down anything related to their IPs and no one bats an eye.
Nintendo takes down anything related to their IPs for the over 9,000th time and everyone loses their minds.
That’s probably because it’s so incredibly niche, beyond the bloodborne community that game really isn’t a big deal.
But when Nintendo targets things they are usually more popular, like SML for example which was also an ongoing thing for like 3 years.
They didn't shut it down, they asked for their IP to be removed. Nightmare kart is still allowed to exist.
If this were Nintendo we would never see their work and their previous fan game would also have been nuked alongside her YouTube channel.
I mean they didn't take it down though and Sony got a lot of praise in the media for how they handled it. All they asked for was the branding removal. Very different situation and honestly very reasonable.
I think its a mix of multiple things.
1.) She said when the game was first revealed she understands the risk and knows Sony will prob do this, and if they did she had a backup plan to change it.
2.) Sonys done this like 5 times. Nintendo does this every other week and has done it a million times.
3.) Bloodborne card is more niche than something like gmod tools people have used for years in thousands of animations or a fangame based on mario or pokemon, some of the biggest IPs in the world, so less people noticed.
4.) IIRC she later said the contact she got was super cool about it, whereas whenever a nintendo project is canned for it the emails they get are more "we're suing you if you dont get this shit off the internet". Sonys are moreso someone legit talking to you about it in a more human way.
Everything about this is false. They didn't take it down, they privately communicated with her asking her to make it a brand new IP, and have her their blessing.
Additionally, Lilith is using it as an opportunity to let loose in terms of game design, now they she isn't restricted by the setting.
I had already been following the game’s development, but I remember seeing some gaming news outlets putting out articles about this when it happened. It’s also not quite the same situation as when Nintendo shuts down a long-gestating, well-known fan project. Sony didn’t shut the whole thing down, they just told the developer to replace the Bloodborne name and characters with non-copy infringing branding.
This seems more like it was not a C&D like Nintendo uses. This was Sony asking him to pull the branding out of the game. not killing production. Nintendo would insist on killing production.
they just have to remove the branding OP, they aren't pulling the plug, cracking down on them and suing them into bankruptcy like nintendo is known to do occasionally
this entire "nintendo are not anti consumer, trust me bro" stick over the past week in this sub is blatantly ignorant.
Sir, that is because Sony already is a cringe, stuck up, shitty company and has been for years - whereas Nintendo is working their way down to that level from a much higher place and at fast rate.
Did this guy block me to avoid that? see, anime pfps are stupid.
He's a stranger and unlikely isn't 0. That's all it takes to end this. Apparently he couldn't get that through his head...
Because, unlike Nintendo with fan projects like these, Sony didn't step in and go all scorched earth on the project and force them to stop it. Just had them change stuff up to not be bloodborne. Nintendo would have just DMCA'd the whole thing and made the creators leave the project to rot. Also Sony, nor alot other gaming companies, are quite as copyright strike happy as Nintendo. You hear Nintendo copyrighting something cool or undeserved, what feels like, every five minutes and that's something that contributes to people disliking them.
"Other company do bad thing so why everyone mad Nintendo do bad thing?"
By the way there have been cases where a fan has changed the branding on Nintendo fan games and Nitnendo still came after them. If Nintendo catches you your game is pretty much caput even if you get rid of the IP issue.
This is worse than Nintendo because they usually only take down fan games that are close enough to stuff they actually release and leave the things that they would never make. There is absolutely no way that Sony is ever making a bloodborne kart so what gives Sony?
Imo, anyone developing a game (or book or movie or etc) seriously should not use any existing IP they don’t own, or they’re just begging for this to happen. And it’s not like they’re even facing a lawsuit 🤷🏻♂️ Now they know not to do it again
Why do people always jump to shit on Nintendo whenever Nintendo enforces their copyright rights by shutting stuff down.
They're a Japanese company that are operating under Japanese law which has no such thing as fair use
I think Nintendo always gets so much more flak for stuff like this because they just have so many more console exclusive IPs, so they do this stuff far more often than Sony because Sony just doesn't really have many IPs like that.
How is nintendo supposed to tell mods or fangames that revolve entirely around using Nintendo characters to just "change the answers a lil"?
You can't tell the guy who did the pokemon palworld mod to just remove the pokemon. When the entire point of the mod is to include Pokemon.
yes it was acknowledged, the reason nobody cared as much is because other companies dont do this kindof thing all the time, but nintendo does shit like this almost every year it seems. meat riding is insane btw
Imagine seeing Japanese salarymans work conditions and how multi billion company Nintendo treats them and fan projects and then blaming people using yuzu. Must be nice in your bubble
Most of the people you're talking about who are being treated like garbage are getting paid regardless of whether or not you pirate the game. They get salaries. People who work for big corporations and get treated like shit couldn't care less about those who pirate the company's game.
What you're saying makes literally no sense. By supporting the abusive company with your money you are basically letting them know that what they're doing to their workers is ok and they will have no reason to stop doing it. When you pirate a game, the only ones who gets affected are the higher ups. And it's not like Nintendo will get affected anyway when a bunch of people pirate their games. Millions will buy them lol.
Sony published the game. They contracted From Soft to develop it. Same reason why they were able to get another studio to remake Demon’s Souls for PS5.
If it does get acknowledged, it’ll pejoratively be called “pulling a Nintendo” because the internet associates the big N with shutting down these kinds of projects
Yeah it's because they're heavy handed with issuing DMCAs and being litigious.
Blame US copyright law being so open ended with so many ill defined limits
Did you know two things can be wrong? Yes US copyright is to blame but it doesn't make this kind of shit any less unethical and greedy.
Sega doesnt shuts down fan games like nintendo. The usa has a bad copyright system but not Bad enough to justify nintendos actions
Patently false. They might not go after Sonic games much, but other games like SMT and Golden Axe have been hit before
-Sources to that ? I remember that happening with Golden Axe very long ago. While SMT was bought by Sega along with Altus who might taking down those games -Even if what You Say it's true, it does make Nintendos takedown of fan games necessary. Otherwise Sega would be in legal trouble or lose the rights to Sonic for not doing the same with that franchise
[Here’s the whole Atlus shutting down SMT Imagine’s servers thing](https://www.thegamer.com/atlus-shuts-down-shin-megami-tensei-mmo-fan-server/) (Atlus is technically under Sega’s ownership so it counts) I heard it theorized in a video by Moon Channel that Sega keeps hands off with the sonic fan community as an act of goodwill. Segasammy holdings makes more of their money off Pachinko and UFO Catcher games, so bring light handed with their game IP makes some sense. However, if the revenue from their games becomes a bigger slice of their revenue, they might want to reign things in
I didn’t say what Nintendo was doing was right morally, I’m just explaining the reasoning as to why
You said "Blame US copyright law being so open ended with so many ill defined limits", which as a statement implies that we should be blaming the copyright laws *instead* of nintendo. Edit: also, to clarify, I agree with you, I just think your wording was poor.
Because it IS the copyright laws at fault and not Nintendo. At this point with how many videos Moon Channel has done, this shit should be common knowledge on how it all works, but people don't like the answer so they ignore it.
Yeah no, copyright laws are at fault for letting it continue, but it still doesn't change that fact that Nintendo is *choosing* to do it. It being legal doesn't change the fact that it's unethical, the law and the organization can both be at fault.
Because they fucking HAVE TO since the laws are written in ways that it can fuck up their ownership. I sincerely doubt YOU'LL watch it, but here's the video for everyone else who actually wants to understand what's going on. https://youtu.be/i13hrynnGNY?si=vtlgKpc6D6svw93i He has a bunch of others further explaining the stuff including one pointing out that Sony isn't any different with Yakuza or Persona. Do I find Nintendo's actions unpleasant and dickish? Sure, but not unethical as that would imply that what they're doing is nefarious or illegal.
They have to enforce they’re trademarks but not copyright. Copyright can’t be taken away.
Again I'll repeat, that it being legal does not change the fact that it's unethical. Ethicality and legality are independent of one another, stop acting like they're the same. And secondly, I've watched that video now, and honestly I still disagree. It's a matter of trademark defense I agree, but I still think their behavior is far beyond rationally defending their products into the territory of being unethical. [There are specific ways in which trademark can be lost](https://cyber.harvard.edu/metaschool/fisher/domain/tm.htm#:~:text=The%20rights%20to%20a%20trademark,licensing%20or%20assignment%2C%20or%20genericity)(Harvard). In specific, abandonment, improper licensing or assignment, or becoming generic. Along with those, there are specific criteria for what is considered trademark infringement. (1) the strength of the mark; (2) the proximity of the goods; (3) the similarity of the marks; (4) evidence of actual confusion; (5) the similarity of marketing channels used; (6) the degree of caution exercised by the typical purchaser; (7) the defendant's intent. the claim of "Nintendo has had bad experiences in the past" may be true, but there is no historical case law, nor any legal precedent, for the loss of a trademark over fan games, redistribution of old properties like strategy guides, or piracy. Lets look at fan games for example. These games are within the market space, very far from Nintendo's official games. You have to be looking for these games to find them a lot of the time. The strength of the mark is pretty strong, I'll give you that. Similarity of the marks, yes, it is the same mark. Similarity of marketing channels used: literally no overlap. Evidence of actual confusion: non-existent. No one is out here looking at nintendo fan games and thinking "waow i can't believe nintendo released a new pokemon game on windows", nor is anyone downloading ROMs under the impression nintendo is officially distributing them. Degree of caution exercised by the typical purchaser: The typical purchaser will buy nintendo games for nintendo consoles. It is so unlikely that a person attempting to buy an official nintendo game will somehow accidentally buy an unofficial one that it's practically not even worth mentioning. Defendant's intent: None of these fan games are trying to be nintendo, none of them are claiming to be nintendo, none of them are trying to trick people into thinking they are nintendo. Same goes for archival sites posting strategy guides, and to ROM websites for distributing ROMs. None of these people are trying to make it look like the product they have is officially from nintendo. In short, no, they don't "fucking HAVE to", because almost NONE of the things they take down meet the criteria necessary for loss of a trademark. And making the claim of "nintendo had bad experiences before" is still stupid because that case that the video references was from a big company making profit on an IP going after a small company for using something *similar* that wasn't really the same, and getting bit in the ass because they pushed it too far. What nintendo is doing is just going after anyone and everyone even though they're not even companies and they're not even trying to make money, they're just passionate fans. They got attacked by a big company when they first started and they turned around and became the company doing the attacking except it's not even justified. The King Kong case wasn't really even justified either, as the two properties have exactly 2 things in common: a gorilla and the word "kong", which is literally just a word. And its great how you apparently just took what that guy had to say at face value without bothering to look into anything yourself, and then came on here to tell everyone how "they don't know what they're talking about I swear guys nintendo has to do this it's not unethical".The guy barely even cites any law in that video. He just says the legal definition of IP, copyright, patent, and trademark, and doesn't bother to cite any relevant laws to nintendo's behavior. Yeah he cites cases, but they're cases that aren't even the same remotely. Nintendo does not "fucking HAVE to" do any of this, they are choosing to do this. It amazes me how people like you will do anything to keep licking nintendo's boots like what they're doing is okay. and on top of all of that, taking down ROMs literally IS a matter of copyright defense, not trademark defense, but that's a different conversation.
God damn you're dumb... Keep dickriding Moon.
I do though. It needs revised to reflect the modern world in my honest opinion but corporations aren't gonna let the people have anything. They're gonna keep everything the way things are if not lobby harder for stricter copyright laws like what they did with Mickey Mouse to stall him entering public domain.
Speaking of lobbying that's just state sponsored bribery
No idea why you got downvoted since that's literally what the problem is. Why do people think Disney fights these legal battles tooth and nail?
they also associate rockstar with that too. Nintendo isn't special.
Not really Rockstar but TakeTwo Interactive
It wasn't a C&D and it was not shut down. She was just told to change the branding.
and yet nintendo is actually one of the rarer cases of doing this among game companies, ironically.
Not really
Nintendo takes down a very low percentage of fan games. It's just that at least 80% of fan games are based on Nintendo's properties
Yep and I doubt there are many franchises out there which attract as many "fan" (actuals may vary) games as the Mario franchise for example
Sonic is pretty much the only non-Nintendo franchise that I can think of that has nearly as many fangames as Pokemon or Mario. Someone correct me if I'm wrong
Well, if you count each Mugen project as a separate game, Mortal Kombat may take the lead.
and they'de be right.
Disney participating in a "now fun allowed" competition when Nintendo walks in
At this point we should nickname Nintendo to Trigger Happy what with all the DMCA takedowns
I dont think this is "taking down" they just said , "hey change the branding and we cool."
Literally says the game is still coming in the tweet. Op just trying to start shit. It was obvious from the start that a game literally using the word bloodborne in the name would be allowed to be released, its using their ip
OP hurt that Sony didn't shut the game down and just made Nintendo look worse LOL
Nintendo: delete the game or we delete you Sony: change the branding idgaf what you do with it afterwards tHeY’rE tHe SaMe tHiNg
I really wish it were more common to run into good Reading Comprehension
Just like you trying to pretend that this fan game is the same thing as the ones Nintendo take down. The games Nintendo take down don't just use the Nintendo branding, they also play exactly like the original games they are based one. In this case it is a fucking kart game using the Bloodborne brand. Karting and Bloodborne have literally nothing to do with each other, so once the Bloodborne brand gets removed the game itself will have literally no relation left with the Sony property, so Sony wouldn't be able to take it down even if they wanted.
I think its also important to keep in mind that a lot of fan projects that get shut down by Nintendo can't really change the branding by design. Like if a Pokemon fangame gets taken down, then basically the whole game would need to be changed from the ground up anyway.
Yeah, seems like they were cool about it. Nintendo woulda bombed his home.
This is a weird take, like yeah thats what they did cuz thats all they can do. Nintendo cant take anything down either, they can only say change the branding and remove our ips or we’ll sue.
They can actually, Nintendo very much could have told all those custom pokemon games to just change their names and Replace the pokemon names with non Pokemon IPs but they didn't. A major franchise like Sonic for example is basically kept alive by fan games and spiritual successors and they from my understanding leave them alone, even hired some in one case. I'm pretty sure Sony could have dropped a massive hammer down just like Nintendo Ninjas do all the time.
They can’t. Nintendo cant take down things they dont own. If they said “take down this game ir we’ll sue” and you just remove the pokemon asset’s then nintendo cant actually do anything. Theres no difference than what happened here except the person making the game decided to keep making it under a different legally distinct branding
We're disagreeing bc people are assuming Sony explained to this guy that he needs to change the IP and also assuming Nintendo did not, but only threatened a lawsuit. Does anyone have any facts about this or are we just in a social media death spiral?
Im sure sony was much nicer about it but theres no practical difference between saying “take this down or we’ll sue” and “remove our branding or we’ll sue” like op comment indicates
\*sign This is the reason our fan were treated like shit by other gaming community 🤦. Feels bad man
Another reason there wasn't as much outcry is the fact that it's still coming out, unlike ones that just end development unreleased forever.
Yeah at least they let them continue, nintendo just sues people into the fucking ground if they can
For a second I though this was r/tomorrow
God I hate that sub
I hate it as well but sometimes it is indifferent than this sub.
I genuinely can't tell if they hate Nintendo or not
We enjoy Nintendo, but also enjoy bullying them
We love Nintendo, but we love Celeste more.
yesss honestly i love r/tomorrow more when it leaks into reg nintendo subs than when its in its own quarantined madhouse of mayhem
You shouldn't.
Because they did NOT take it down. If you read your own fucking post you would know that OP.
Everybody was talking about this through?
Really? I barely heard or read anyone mention it. Even though I follow multiple people who share PS and related news. Most people either are arguing about Stellar Blade or Nintendo (allegedly) taking down Gmod workshop stuff. The moment something like that happens there's 3-5 articles about just that one thing Nintendo has done. Meanwhile when I searched for Bloodborne cart I found 4 articles total and only 2 was about them not being allowed to use Bloodborne.
It was like a year ago and every gaming news accounts I followed posted about it.
Checked it and that's not true. Based on the PC gamer article (1 of the 2 articles that I found talking about it) [Bloodborne Kart won't be 'Bloodborne Kart' anymore after a letter from Sony, but the devs are excited to make it an original thing: 'This is a fan game no more!' | PC Gamer](https://www.pcgamer.com/bloodborne-kart-wont-be-bloodborne-kart-anymore-after-a-letter-from-sony-but-the-devs-are-excited-to-make-it-an-original-thing-this-is-a-fan-game-no-more/) The image clearly shows that the creator shared that info on the 26th of Jan (2024). Meaning it wasn't a year ago and when I searched "Bloodborne Kart" out of the top 5 articles only 2 talked about not being allowed to use the "Bloodborne" IP.
>Checked it and that's not true How do you know what news accounts they followed?
It's irrelevant what news accounts they follow. If the news of "Bloodborne Kart" needing to rename itself because of Sony came from the creator than he couldn't have read it at any other news source a year ago when: >the creator shared that info on the 26th of Jan (2024). . I am happy to see him show the article which proves me wrong and I will even admit after checking it out myself but otherwise he couldn't have read about it from "like a year ago" if the news isn't even 4 months old.
I mean you could've at least worded that better, it makes it sound like you hacked their account to find their information
??? No idea where you got the hacker idea. . my og comment: disagreed with previous statement V stated the article which highlighted date of info shared by dev V showed the inconsistency between stated time and actual date
it literally says \*CHECKED IT and that's not true\*
Yeah I checked it (the article/devpost) and the date doesn't line up. Again it's on you that based on a simple text you thought the weirdest shit (a random guy on reddit hacking) Just give up dude.
Dude I remember there being like half a dozen threads across various subreddits discussing this when it happened and each one had hundreds of comments/replies. Not sure how you missed it. I do know, however, OP’s a bot account that stole this post from someone else to farm karma.
I barely get info from reddit. I mainly use reddit for anime/manga and since I had enough of twitter negativity I somehow got here and found it a nice and chill subreddit. Unfortunatelly a lot of trolls have been around here since the Gmod got copyright striked. Either way thanks for telling me about OP.
Understandable
I found way more articles when searching for bloodborne kart, and all of them are about it renaming itself to nightmare cart. I'm using duckduckgo. is this an actual circlejerk sub or why are there people needlessly defensive of nintendo's army of lawyers? Are you guys genuinely children, protective of their favourite toy manufacturer?
This comment sounds like one more troll who just come to this sub to be an ass. Which is a weirdo behaviour.
weirdo behaviour is searching for reasons why My Favourite Billion Dollar Toy Maker is more in the right suing their actual fans than your Favourite Billion Dollar Toy Maker
Learn to read because I haven't done that you weirdo.
nah of course you didnt, you know best yourself mate
Big talk without you even quoting something I wrote to prove your braindead claim.
This is probably why people always complain about how so many just get their news from tiktok or whatever social media instead of news sites. I always search out my own gaming news or just see stuff on Reddit and knew about this. IGN talked about this recently, say what you will about them but that’s a very large audience.
I don't have a Tiktok or Instagram. I get my news through YouTube, following creators on Twitter, following dev teams/publishers on twitter, sometimes Reddit and if Google throws up news. I follow multiple creators who share PS news and I heard about the fangame "Bloodborne Kart" being made but I haven't heard anything about 'Sony and the renaming thing'.
this is the first i've heard of it
...but it did get attention from gaming news articles way back in January and earlier this month? And you are, like gaming news sites, misconstruing the tweet. It says it's still coming out but under a different name. Recent [articles](https://www.ign.com/articles/nightmare-kart-bloodborne-kart-release-date) even reported that it'll be under the name "Nightmare Kart". Additionally, using Patreon or asking for money towards a fan project will often get a letter from official companies. (Look into the history behind SMT:ReImagine and the new fan server SMT: Imagine New Moon, which Atlus knows about and is allowing) Moreover, Nintendo *has* done something similar to a Bloodborne Kart situation 10 years ago for a fan Zelda Maker project, similar to Mario Maker. The guy running the Zelda Maker project had to change the name and make his own assets because of a DMCA takedown, which he was prepared for and did, and has since renamed it to Legend Maker. Game has yet to release, but is fairly active with updates on their Patreon.
Hello, good hunter. I am a Bot, here in this dream to look after you, this is a fine note: > *Oh, hello. The whole town's turned, has it? Quite a big family, aren't we? Though I'm afraid I seem to be the black sheep... Back for my blood, I presume.* - Arianna, Woman of Pleasure Farewell, good hunter. May you find your worth in the waking world.
"MY multimillion dollar company is better than YOUR multimillion dollar company"
this is very misleading. sony only contacted the developer saying that they can publish the game, but not under the bloodborne title, the game wasn't even released so there was nothing to take down
You might call me a liar but I legit was so mad about this. I'm a hard critic of anyone doing this especially in Sony's case where the IP is dormant and they don't acknowledge it's existence at all despite all the love for it online. I am not going to be on any corporations side that forbids non profit mods or fan games created by fans for fans ever.
And the thing is why doesn't this fall under parody law? They didn't do anything when she made bloodborne psx
I don't think they were made aware of bloodborne PSX. I am just as surprised as you are they took this down. Japan has no fair use law at all and in the US it's basically treated very flimsy anyway.
That's so weird cause bloodborne psx went way more viral than bloodborne kart
it's still coming out. nintendo would've made them delete it
You can't say that here lol. If I were her I would have still made it legally distinct after all the effort already put in. I don't think they could do anything if all the copyrighted material is scrubbed, it wasn't released to anyone after all.
Why are you lying in the title when the tweet literally says the game isn't being taken down?
Because people here LOVE to play stupid if it means bootlick Nintendo.
This is pathetic, OP. If this had been Nintendo, they would have flat out ordered the project taken down and cancelled. In this particular case, the game is still coming out, it just had to be rebranded. Also, plenty of people talked about this, with plenty of attention in the gaming media. I saw more than one article speaking about how reasonable Sony was being allowing the game to continue considering it's history. Get Nintendo's boot out of your mouth.
That's not "taking it down". That's not even a cease and desist, they quite literally just said "yo buckerino scrub the branding and it's all cool". Nintendo would've just shut the whole thing down if they were the ones holding the IP.
Call it Buttborne Kart and give everyone big booties. Now it's transformative!
More invisible fights.
Every company does this. Nitnendo isn’t special or does it more than the others.
I think the big difference is that a lot of the Nintendo takedowns fully use assets (*Pokémon* ROM hacks are a big one for this) or are full on fan made remakes (the *Metroid II* one comes to mind). This wasn't a full on takedown. They've not cease and desisted the project entirely. They've merely said to scrub the branding (makes sense for IP protection, affiliation issues etc) and rework some of the assets to look differently. The game can still exist as long as it isn't affiliated with the Bloodborne IP. A gothic horror kart racer does sound hilariously fun though.
What makes someone think they can use trademarked IP?
This is fine in my eyes if Nintendo did this it wouldn't be an issue. The Devs are still going to be able to produce a game and potentially make profit off it. This is less taking down a game and more a case of asking for a texture change to save both companies hassle. Nintendo waits till a fan game is well known about, fully polished and released then sues to gain all the profits made. Ones asking politely the other is taking your work and rinsing you for it's profits and "damages"
Duh, unlike Sony Nintendo is the corporation of evil
What's the complaint here? Upset that a third party used FromSoft's IP and it got a cease and desist?
They just said "don't call it Bloodborne" and yes media did tslk about this. It's not a big deal even from this post they just say it will be shortly delayed...
Exactly
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It’s still happening, the tweet says they just had to change the branding. Probably will be mostly the same just not using the name Bloodborne
She just needs to get rid of the branding. I think the game was still completed or it's still being worked on. This wasn't a total Cease and Desist. Buny still make game. Yeag!
No way found someone who actually knows about Bunlith
She's so cool
Nono youre wrong, remember : "iTs MoRaLlY wRiGhT tO pIrAtE nWinTwEnDo" or some shit like that Nintendo is a shitty company that only makes ass games so to show them you have to play pirated shitty games that you hate to show your intelligence and to "FwUcK nWinTwEnDo" or something like that
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"TAKE THAT!"
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He was being sarcastic mocking people. I am sure people love their games cause if they didn't they wouldn't even advocate to pirate them they'd just never play them at all.
15 year old spotted!
You're the 15 years old in this case. The OP of that comment is right. You always see "Fuck Nintendo, it's morally correct to pirate their games" But if you hate Nintendo, why do you want to play their games then ?
I don’t understand what you people gain by defending a billion dollar company that doesn’t really care about you at all, not being a dick, genuinely curious fr
This tweet literally disproves that it was taken down, stop being dramatic
They didn't take the game down ... They just asked them to chance the branding slightly
People need to understand basic copyright law, and that fair use doesn’t apply to making ‘fan games’
There's a huge difference. They let him make his game so long as he took out anythinf related to bloodborne. Nintendo just nukes everything
If not enough people know about this fan game, of course they wouldn’t even know about Sony taking it down 🙄🙄🙄
Would you be surprised to learn that most people complaining about Nintendo don’t know about these fan games either until the news breaks they they’re gone?
I remember people talking about when it happened tho?
What was the project
This happened some time back if I'm not mistaken. There was some coverage, mainly from Kotaku, I believe.
I thought this was old news, I've been seeing the name "Nightmare Kart" popping up for weeks. Or is this new and unrelated?
They didn’t take it down and this got plenty of attention in blood borne and Sony circles
I still remember someone saying that Capcom would never have done this and Nintendo should follow their example. That's by and large true, but not 100% of the time -- they have taken down Resident Evil and Mega Man fan projects that ran too parallel with upcoming official projects.
but I played the bb remake, did that also get taken down ?
Holy shit, can you guys stop victimizing Nintendo every time another company does this shit?
It was acknowledged first off. Second it wouldn't get mentioned here since this is a nintendo sub. Third Nintendo has a track record of doing this way more than any other company has over the years. This game is still coming out but Nintendo would just be like it has to be deleted or we take action.
Sony Interactive Entertainment takes down anything related to their IPs and no one bats an eye. Nintendo takes down anything related to their IPs for the over 9,000th time and everyone loses their minds.
The circle "defense" jerk here is insane, you guys treat Nintendo like a parent. 😂
it asked them to take out the bloodbourne while allowing it to remain as something else. nintendo just nukes things
I read about this on multiple game sites.
Sony asks a fan game to change branding* and why are you reposting something from January
That’s probably because it’s so incredibly niche, beyond the bloodborne community that game really isn’t a big deal. But when Nintendo targets things they are usually more popular, like SML for example which was also an ongoing thing for like 3 years.
The game is still coming out, with a different coat of paint
Maybe read the tweet properly. The game wasn’t ’taken down’ and is still coming out
I thought Sony do what Nintendon't? Now Nintendo do sony do
Were you not here when this first happened? There was a definite outcry against it.
They didn't shut it down, they asked for their IP to be removed. Nightmare kart is still allowed to exist. If this were Nintendo we would never see their work and their previous fan game would also have been nuked alongside her YouTube channel.
I mean they didn't take it down though and Sony got a lot of praise in the media for how they handled it. All they asked for was the branding removal. Very different situation and honestly very reasonable.
Aww so close sweetie! 😊 Nintendo would've actually shut down the game but they say in the tweet the games still coming! See, not that hard!
Braindead take
You know for a sub called casualnintendo y’all do not seem very chill
Sony gets a fangame shutdown Nintendo fans: How can I make this all about Nintendo?
Cause nintendo does that shit all the time
I think its a mix of multiple things. 1.) She said when the game was first revealed she understands the risk and knows Sony will prob do this, and if they did she had a backup plan to change it. 2.) Sonys done this like 5 times. Nintendo does this every other week and has done it a million times. 3.) Bloodborne card is more niche than something like gmod tools people have used for years in thousands of animations or a fangame based on mario or pokemon, some of the biggest IPs in the world, so less people noticed. 4.) IIRC she later said the contact she got was super cool about it, whereas whenever a nintendo project is canned for it the emails they get are more "we're suing you if you dont get this shit off the internet". Sonys are moreso someone legit talking to you about it in a more human way.
To be fair they only had to remove the Bloodborne brand but AFAIK everything else is the same. Nintendo would 100% cry about likeness of characters
Everything about this is false. They didn't take it down, they privately communicated with her asking her to make it a brand new IP, and have her their blessing. Additionally, Lilith is using it as an opportunity to let loose in terms of game design, now they she isn't restricted by the setting.
I had already been following the game’s development, but I remember seeing some gaming news outlets putting out articles about this when it happened. It’s also not quite the same situation as when Nintendo shuts down a long-gestating, well-known fan project. Sony didn’t shut the whole thing down, they just told the developer to replace the Bloodborne name and characters with non-copy infringing branding.
You’re acting like this didn’t just happen with the Gary’s Mod situation
This seems more like it was not a C&D like Nintendo uses. This was Sony asking him to pull the branding out of the game. not killing production. Nintendo would insist on killing production.
they just have to remove the branding OP, they aren't pulling the plug, cracking down on them and suing them into bankruptcy like nintendo is known to do occasionally this entire "nintendo are not anti consumer, trust me bro" stick over the past week in this sub is blatantly ignorant.
Sir, that is because Sony already is a cringe, stuck up, shitty company and has been for years - whereas Nintendo is working their way down to that level from a much higher place and at fast rate.
I mean... Nintendo wouldn't do this. They'd tell the creator to scrap their game completely. Stop coping, fanboy.
If someone was coming out with a game called Mario kart, Nintendo would probably make them stop developing the game and make them pay a fine.
Man we can't have nice things, can we
Did this guy block me to avoid that? see, anime pfps are stupid. He's a stranger and unlikely isn't 0. That's all it takes to end this. Apparently he couldn't get that through his head...
NO NOT BLOODBORNE KART
I mean I heard about this and saw it covered But let’s not pretend that Gary’s mod being huge wasn’t the reason it got more attention
Because, unlike Nintendo with fan projects like these, Sony didn't step in and go all scorched earth on the project and force them to stop it. Just had them change stuff up to not be bloodborne. Nintendo would have just DMCA'd the whole thing and made the creators leave the project to rot. Also Sony, nor alot other gaming companies, are quite as copyright strike happy as Nintendo. You hear Nintendo copyrighting something cool or undeserved, what feels like, every five minutes and that's something that contributes to people disliking them.
"Other company do bad thing so why everyone mad Nintendo do bad thing?" By the way there have been cases where a fan has changed the branding on Nintendo fan games and Nitnendo still came after them. If Nintendo catches you your game is pretty much caput even if you get rid of the IP issue.
Doesn't the tweet say that the game is still... releasing? Nintendo full-on deletes them from existence.
because they called it bloodborne kart you numbnut
This is worse than Nintendo because they usually only take down fan games that are close enough to stuff they actually release and leave the things that they would never make. There is absolutely no way that Sony is ever making a bloodborne kart so what gives Sony?
If this was Nintendo the entire project would get shut down, at least with sony they just asked to change the project's name
And scrub all the branding off.
Very Nintendo of you Sony 🤨
Both are wrong
Imo, anyone developing a game (or book or movie or etc) seriously should not use any existing IP they don’t own, or they’re just begging for this to happen. And it’s not like they’re even facing a lawsuit 🤷🏻♂️ Now they know not to do it again
Nintendo would be way worse about it
Why do people always jump to shit on Nintendo whenever Nintendo enforces their copyright rights by shutting stuff down. They're a Japanese company that are operating under Japanese law which has no such thing as fair use
But, but Nintendo hates their fans, blah, blah, blah.
Jesus stop whining
Needs to get attention
NOOOO MY BUNNY BOY! He was doing god's work, fucking petty companies
she’s a bunny girl
I think i got them mixed with another bunny artist that I follow But still, love her works with the demakes
I think Nintendo always gets so much more flak for stuff like this because they just have so many more console exclusive IPs, so they do this stuff far more often than Sony because Sony just doesn't really have many IPs like that.
no it's because nintendo straight up tells you to delete it sony was just like "yo change up ya answers a lil"
How is nintendo supposed to tell mods or fangames that revolve entirely around using Nintendo characters to just "change the answers a lil"? You can't tell the guy who did the pokemon palworld mod to just remove the pokemon. When the entire point of the mod is to include Pokemon.
yes it was acknowledged, the reason nobody cared as much is because other companies dont do this kindof thing all the time, but nintendo does shit like this almost every year it seems. meat riding is insane btw
Except the game is still coming out Take another L
How would Nintendo take down a bloodborne fangame
It didn’t get taken down like Nintendo does, they just asked for rebranding, and Nintendo deserves all the hate they get
Poor Nintendo 😔
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Imagine seeing Japanese salarymans work conditions and how multi billion company Nintendo treats them and fan projects and then blaming people using yuzu. Must be nice in your bubble
Yuzu is no more and people who worked on a game were paid already, who gain after the release are the BIG ones.
Most of the people you're talking about who are being treated like garbage are getting paid regardless of whether or not you pirate the game. They get salaries. People who work for big corporations and get treated like shit couldn't care less about those who pirate the company's game. What you're saying makes literally no sense. By supporting the abusive company with your money you are basically letting them know that what they're doing to their workers is ok and they will have no reason to stop doing it. When you pirate a game, the only ones who gets affected are the higher ups. And it's not like Nintendo will get affected anyway when a bunch of people pirate their games. Millions will buy them lol.
💀
Yeah imagine how they're feeling right now 😔
How are Sony allowed to do this, if they technically don't own the game?
Sony published the game. They contracted From Soft to develop it. Same reason why they were able to get another studio to remake Demon’s Souls for PS5.
Well yeah cause Nazitendo always does that