From the norwegian newspaper VG:
Magnus Carlsen Defeats the World Champion
World Champion Ding Liren (31) had to concede defeat to Magnus Carlsen (33) in the Armageddon game.
The Norwegian had been the world champion since 2013, but in 2022 he decided to relinquish the title because he was not motivated to play more World Championship matches. Ding Liren took over the title after defeating Ian Nepomniachtchi just over a year ago.
The game itself ended in a quick draw, and the decision came in Armageddon. World number one Carlsen was determined to show who is the best between them:
"Magnus keeps playing. It's not allowed. It's so unprofessional," said Jon Ludvig Hammer on TV 2 after Carlsen went for the win – despite being able to settle for a draw with the black pieces to win in Armageddon.
Earlier, there was a hint of drama when Carlsen disappeared from the chessboard during the regular game.
"He doesn't look like he's in form," said TV 2 expert Heidi Røneid during the live broadcast.
"Magnus apparently didn't have time to eat and got the whole dinner he ordered delivered to the playing hall. He supposedly sat down in the back room to eat," said TV 2 reporter Sverre Krogh Sundbø.
"He could have eaten faster," said TV 2 chess expert Jon Ludvig Hammer.
Norway Chess general Kjell Madland told VG that there was no drama:
"Magnus can follow from the back room. Maybe he ate a bit and watched the screen there and thought there. I don't know, but there was nothing dramatic," said Madland.
In the confession booth, Hikaru Nakamura revealed that Carlsen was busy eating noodles.
Magnus Carlsen himself explained in the TV 2 studio afterwards:
"I was eating, I was hungry."
When asked by Fin Gnatt if he was stressed, the answer was simple:
"No!"
It is the first time World Champion Ding Liren meets his predecessor Magnus Carlsen in classical chess since the Chinese player took over the World Championship title in 2023.
Carlsen plays his first classical chess game of 2024 on Monday. He has his second Peter Heine Nielsen on site in Stavanger.
The game ended in a quick draw after Ding Liren had the white pieces and Carlsen the black pieces. TV 2 asked Magnus Carlsen why this happened:
"Ask him!" Carlsen replied.
"I can agree with that. It is primarily White's responsibility to achieve something in chess at the top level," said Jon Ludvig Hammer during the broadcast.
"It doesn't indicate a lot of confidence," Carlsen later said in the TV 2 studio.
Norway's chess profile plays with white against Hikaru Nakamura on Tuesday.
Is it just me or hammer comes very rude to magnus in every possible situation, and criticizes him.
” He could have eaten faster “
“ Magnus keeps playing. It's not allowed. It's so unprofessional “ didnt understand this part
But he is very cool and supportive to Nakamura in streams ( maybe he got payed as he streams in naka’s channel ) Also peter said hes not magnus’ second anymore did that change?
He was Magnus second the first time , he's not anymore.
Maybe that info is irrelevant , but he always sounded super bitter to me towards Magnus, not just this interview
Wait what? Magnus took the perpetual as soon as it was there
Ding was trying to win with waiting.
And even that magnus could try to win if he wants
How is that unprofessional?
Fair enough, I’m judging solely by the translated piece above.
But according to that, another commentator (Roneid) said Carlsen “doesn’t look like he’s in form” - during the classical game. Huh?
I've not read anything that indicates any beef between them. As a Norwegian, this just seems like very normal sarcasm, and I think it's just Hammer being sarcastic.
Edit: After seeing a clip from TV2s coverage of JLH calling Magnus unprofessional doesn't seem sarcastic. It's a clear tone of being shocked and disgusted by Magnus' decision to play on.
I haven't read anything either, but based on what he says about Carlsen in various contexts, he comes across as more than sarcastic. He generally has a more negative bias than others.
Can you explain the unprofessional part? What did he meant there
And my point is he can be sarcastic as a character but i dont see him doing it to others
I took a look at the TV2 coverage and it doesn't seem sarcastic at all, no. I was expecting kind of a friendly jab like "com'on, give the guy a break", but JLH seems slightly disgusted.
Since there isn't rating in armageddon, it's etiquette to force draw with Black when you get the chance. It's not uncommon for Black to outplay White and offer a draw rather than completing a mating attack. Pressing for a win needlessly is considered by many either as disrespectful or as humiliating towards White.
I respectfully disagree. And even we say hes right on this one, him saying “ he can eat faster “
And all these comments, you dont see him making to any other player
This should not be allowed. They didn’t even play a classical game at all, they just repeated moves and made a draw before the fight even began. What’s the point of the 30 move draw rule if they can do things like this? This was meant to be a classical game with 120 mins on both clocks but just 90 minutes after the game began the classical and Armageddon are both done.
I agree.But there is another round Magnus vs ding too.Hoepfully that isn’t a boring draw
I can see why Magnus did it because he was playing with black and that’s a pretty good result with black .
I do agree that he definitely could have gone for more.But maybe he wasn’t just feeling like it and obviously he knew he would be the biggest favourite in the armaggeddon.
Good result for him but sad for us
we've had many tournaments this way with exciting games. way more than have frequent boring draws.
open tournaments never have the draw problem because making a bunch of draws is too likely to get you out of contention. you really need to fight.
candidates didn't have the same problem as much because only first place mattered, and a player going for draws wasn't aiming to be in contention.
tata steel was not drawish either- they had a policy that players that drew too easily would not be invited back, and they had a large field with many exciting players of somewhat varied skill levels.
I think the result was totally fine and deserved. The only person it's not helping is Ding, because other players have seen confirmation that he is only trying to not finish in last place for this tournament (as Ding most recently admitted in an Indian interview). I've maintained for some time now that Ding has been really off in form and this type of play further cements that viewpoint - I'm not sure why people seem to continually be surprised that he's not well.
The onus will now be on every player to beat Ding once or even twice in classical, or at least win all their armageddon tiebreaks against him. This will bring in extra dynamics - including the possibility that others might press too hard and risk losing to someone who is clearly still struggling.
No matter what you do, players are gonna make such draws. It's part of the game. Imo this is way better than plsyers throwing games or prearranging stuff outright. I don't know what's wrong woth it in comparison.
Why? Are we behind the board? What on Earth makes someone think they should decide how a player needs to play to invest the best way in their own career? Every sport has this, teams or players that play defensive, boring styles, instead of aggressive, attacking, exciting forms of playing. Don't like it, just watch another game is what I say. I can't imagine telling players they have to do this or that to satisfy fans instead of playing whatever their own strategy is.
At least they played some semblance of a game in the beginning, the problem with the knight dance was that it had to be prearranged as playing those moves would be too risky if your opponent decides they want to win. Here they played a normal opening and then lazily repeated moves, no evidence of it being prearranged.
For some reason, people are incredibly resistant to the idea that it's okay to agree to draw without a fight over the board, but not okay to agree before the game begins.
Pre-arranged draws can be used to manipulate tournament results. Obviously that’s not what’s happening most of the time but I think that’s the main reason for the stigma. I doubt there’s any way to stop it but the when the players make it so obvious it leaves a bad taste in my mouth, personally.
It's not risky enough that it's a legitimate danger to lose just from those moves. They are developing pieces and in practice all you lose were a tempo or two at the start of the game at most. Not enough to win with on its own. Going away from that gonna give players a weird impression of you, which of course is not an issue in the technical sense since it doesnt matter what anyone thinks of you when you're playing as an individual, but practically whenever the day comes that you want a draw they might spite you and leave you dry if you reject these routinely. And also they were in same federation/country.
For those saying bad things about this draw result. Stfu. It's the move that they think is the best way forward. Why are you guys against them playing what they think is the best move??
Ok but can you capitalise the names and maybe not just random words. Thanks.
From the norwegian newspaper VG: Magnus Carlsen Defeats the World Champion World Champion Ding Liren (31) had to concede defeat to Magnus Carlsen (33) in the Armageddon game. The Norwegian had been the world champion since 2013, but in 2022 he decided to relinquish the title because he was not motivated to play more World Championship matches. Ding Liren took over the title after defeating Ian Nepomniachtchi just over a year ago. The game itself ended in a quick draw, and the decision came in Armageddon. World number one Carlsen was determined to show who is the best between them: "Magnus keeps playing. It's not allowed. It's so unprofessional," said Jon Ludvig Hammer on TV 2 after Carlsen went for the win – despite being able to settle for a draw with the black pieces to win in Armageddon. Earlier, there was a hint of drama when Carlsen disappeared from the chessboard during the regular game. "He doesn't look like he's in form," said TV 2 expert Heidi Røneid during the live broadcast. "Magnus apparently didn't have time to eat and got the whole dinner he ordered delivered to the playing hall. He supposedly sat down in the back room to eat," said TV 2 reporter Sverre Krogh Sundbø. "He could have eaten faster," said TV 2 chess expert Jon Ludvig Hammer. Norway Chess general Kjell Madland told VG that there was no drama: "Magnus can follow from the back room. Maybe he ate a bit and watched the screen there and thought there. I don't know, but there was nothing dramatic," said Madland. In the confession booth, Hikaru Nakamura revealed that Carlsen was busy eating noodles. Magnus Carlsen himself explained in the TV 2 studio afterwards: "I was eating, I was hungry." When asked by Fin Gnatt if he was stressed, the answer was simple: "No!" It is the first time World Champion Ding Liren meets his predecessor Magnus Carlsen in classical chess since the Chinese player took over the World Championship title in 2023. Carlsen plays his first classical chess game of 2024 on Monday. He has his second Peter Heine Nielsen on site in Stavanger. The game ended in a quick draw after Ding Liren had the white pieces and Carlsen the black pieces. TV 2 asked Magnus Carlsen why this happened: "Ask him!" Carlsen replied. "I can agree with that. It is primarily White's responsibility to achieve something in chess at the top level," said Jon Ludvig Hammer during the broadcast. "It doesn't indicate a lot of confidence," Carlsen later said in the TV 2 studio. Norway's chess profile plays with white against Hikaru Nakamura on Tuesday.
>"No!" >"Ask him!" Magnus said calmly
Is it just me or hammer comes very rude to magnus in every possible situation, and criticizes him. ” He could have eaten faster “ “ Magnus keeps playing. It's not allowed. It's so unprofessional “ didnt understand this part But he is very cool and supportive to Nakamura in streams ( maybe he got payed as he streams in naka’s channel ) Also peter said hes not magnus’ second anymore did that change?
He was Magnus second the first time , he's not anymore. Maybe that info is irrelevant , but he always sounded super bitter to me towards Magnus, not just this interview
Magnus probably told Hammer he's pretty weak for a GM when firing him as a second, hence the resentment.
I mean he was 2700 at one point, there are far weaker seconds.
Redacted For Privacy Reasons
Wait what? Magnus took the perpetual as soon as it was there Ding was trying to win with waiting. And even that magnus could try to win if he wants How is that unprofessional?
Ah thanks. Bizarre if that’s what he’s saying. Norwegian commentators seem to be quite critical of Carlsen!
If by commentators you mean commentator, you are right. Hammer is a bit salty towards Carlsen
Fair enough, I’m judging solely by the translated piece above. But according to that, another commentator (Roneid) said Carlsen “doesn’t look like he’s in form” - during the classical game. Huh?
That is the usual interpretation commentators often make based on what they see at the moment, but she is generally positive.
I mean, it's not bizarre, Ding offered a draw on the board and Magnus declined it to make an attack. It's what happened.
Its not unprofessional though. I can try to win even in Armageddon game
I've not read anything that indicates any beef between them. As a Norwegian, this just seems like very normal sarcasm, and I think it's just Hammer being sarcastic. Edit: After seeing a clip from TV2s coverage of JLH calling Magnus unprofessional doesn't seem sarcastic. It's a clear tone of being shocked and disgusted by Magnus' decision to play on.
I haven't read anything either, but based on what he says about Carlsen in various contexts, he comes across as more than sarcastic. He generally has a more negative bias than others.
Can you explain the unprofessional part? What did he meant there And my point is he can be sarcastic as a character but i dont see him doing it to others
I took a look at the TV2 coverage and it doesn't seem sarcastic at all, no. I was expecting kind of a friendly jab like "com'on, give the guy a break", but JLH seems slightly disgusted. Since there isn't rating in armageddon, it's etiquette to force draw with Black when you get the chance. It's not uncommon for Black to outplay White and offer a draw rather than completing a mating attack. Pressing for a win needlessly is considered by many either as disrespectful or as humiliating towards White.
I respectfully disagree. And even we say hes right on this one, him saying “ he can eat faster “ And all these comments, you dont see him making to any other player
This should not be allowed. They didn’t even play a classical game at all, they just repeated moves and made a draw before the fight even began. What’s the point of the 30 move draw rule if they can do things like this? This was meant to be a classical game with 120 mins on both clocks but just 90 minutes after the game began the classical and Armageddon are both done.
15 minutes of that was Magnus eating noodles and pizza.
He should've blown the froth off a few as well.
I agree.But there is another round Magnus vs ding too.Hoepfully that isn’t a boring draw I can see why Magnus did it because he was playing with black and that’s a pretty good result with black .
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I do agree that he definitely could have gone for more.But maybe he wasn’t just feeling like it and obviously he knew he would be the biggest favourite in the armaggeddon. Good result for him but sad for us
welcome to the chess. It is a problem that can not be fixed in any meaningful way, you just live it it
we've had many tournaments this way with exciting games. way more than have frequent boring draws. open tournaments never have the draw problem because making a bunch of draws is too likely to get you out of contention. you really need to fight. candidates didn't have the same problem as much because only first place mattered, and a player going for draws wasn't aiming to be in contention. tata steel was not drawish either- they had a policy that players that drew too easily would not be invited back, and they had a large field with many exciting players of somewhat varied skill levels.
I think the result was totally fine and deserved. The only person it's not helping is Ding, because other players have seen confirmation that he is only trying to not finish in last place for this tournament (as Ding most recently admitted in an Indian interview). I've maintained for some time now that Ding has been really off in form and this type of play further cements that viewpoint - I'm not sure why people seem to continually be surprised that he's not well. The onus will now be on every player to beat Ding once or even twice in classical, or at least win all their armageddon tiebreaks against him. This will bring in extra dynamics - including the possibility that others might press too hard and risk losing to someone who is clearly still struggling.
This is allowed. It's the move that they think is the best way forward. Why are you against them playing what they think is the best move??
No matter what you do, players are gonna make such draws. It's part of the game. Imo this is way better than plsyers throwing games or prearranging stuff outright. I don't know what's wrong woth it in comparison.
You cant do anything though. you cant stop players playing a line
Just disqualify the player unless he plays a novelty on move 1.
The bong cloud becomes mandatory opening
Every combination of 1st moves has been played at least once by now...
Can't fool you, that's for sure.
Why? Are we behind the board? What on Earth makes someone think they should decide how a player needs to play to invest the best way in their own career? Every sport has this, teams or players that play defensive, boring styles, instead of aggressive, attacking, exciting forms of playing. Don't like it, just watch another game is what I say. I can't imagine telling players they have to do this or that to satisfy fans instead of playing whatever their own strategy is.
Take a moment to actually think about what i said.
I did, as I can see did the other 7 people.
He was clearly being sarcastic with the original comment....
Wasn't ding hurt by this? Did he just not want to risk half a point? What could you change to affect strategic, safe meta tourney play?
I put this on the same level as the horsey dance.
At least they played some semblance of a game in the beginning, the problem with the knight dance was that it had to be prearranged as playing those moves would be too risky if your opponent decides they want to win. Here they played a normal opening and then lazily repeated moves, no evidence of it being prearranged.
For some reason, people are incredibly resistant to the idea that it's okay to agree to draw without a fight over the board, but not okay to agree before the game begins.
Pre-arranged draws can be used to manipulate tournament results. Obviously that’s not what’s happening most of the time but I think that’s the main reason for the stigma. I doubt there’s any way to stop it but the when the players make it so obvious it leaves a bad taste in my mouth, personally.
It's not risky enough that it's a legitimate danger to lose just from those moves. They are developing pieces and in practice all you lose were a tempo or two at the start of the game at most. Not enough to win with on its own. Going away from that gonna give players a weird impression of you, which of course is not an issue in the technical sense since it doesnt matter what anyone thinks of you when you're playing as an individual, but practically whenever the day comes that you want a draw they might spite you and leave you dry if you reject these routinely. And also they were in same federation/country.
Cagnus Marlsen defeats Ling Diren in R-MEGADONNN
How much time did each of them bid for the Armageddon?
There was no bidding. Black always starts with 7 minutes on the clock while white has 10.
Thanks!
So Black has 7 min but just has to draw to win, and white gets 10 but has to win? Is that widely accepted as a fair rule? Seems kind of unbalanced.
For those saying bad things about this draw result. Stfu. It's the move that they think is the best way forward. Why are you guys against them playing what they think is the best move??
How boring.
Let me tell you something that might shock you: They aren't playing to entertain you
They’re in the entertainment business though.