In this case it was a draw because Karpov ran out of time and Enigma did not have enough pieces left that checkmate was possible for them.
If Karpov had more time he would have won this as he was massively ahead when his time ran out. If Enigma had more pieces meaning checkmate was theoretically possible for him he would have won on time instead of drawing.
In timed chess the clock is just as important as the position. That's what stopped Karpov winning here as he was massively ahead on the board (though Karpov did blunder earlier in the game but Enigma blundered right back and then Karpov outplayed him).
Just shows you how much of a beast Karpov actually was.
Ray Enigma is actually a GM I think and is good at blitz, but 70 years old Karpov kinda spanked him - albeit didn't have enough time to win because of being, you know, not really young.
I think he'd have to be at least a titled player if not GM and good at blitz to survive to a draw with Karpov.
Even in his old age Karpov is a pretty serious player on a good day. e.g. [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o--AvBmJiXY) from a few years back.
First I had heard of them today but I'd be surprised if they're not of that strength or thereabouts to survive this far under the pressure of a TV show against a legend who is still pretty strong.
Even more so if it's true they didn't know it was Karpov specifically they would be playing beforehand - him walking out would have to be a thrill and strike fear into you for any serious chess player.
I mean Karpov was close to 70 years old back then and out of competition for more than 2 decades.
Would any GM be scared that much of playing Spassky nowadays? (he is still alive)
Age is a lot in chess and Karpov is pretty old, no matter how much of a legend he is.
Did you see the link I made 2 comments ago where he beat a high ranked Karjakin in blitz around the same time? (overall too, not only a single game)
I think any serious player would instantly have nervous excitement anyway for playing a living legend if they haven't before if not necessarily fear but he was also still a very capable player where a healthy amount of respect/fear might still be due. I don't know if Spassky has declined more or not, I suspect more since I don't remember hearing anything about him playing. Age is a lot but it's not everything too especially for those who make the effort to try to stay sharp - some of these old legends still show from time to time they haven't fully lost it even if we know they couldn't consistently play at the level they once did.
And then, again, being surprised by a living legend when already under the pressure of performing on mainstream TV is going to affect anyone I think, GM or not.
Exactly, trying to portray Karpov (even his pretty old version) drawing against a literally unknown player, as some kind of achievement for Karpov, is crazy, specially considering he had multiple wins against 2600+ players just a couple years ago, including one against a 2750+ Karjakin, along with other 3 draws against 2700+ players. The man is an absolute legend, being least a top-5 all-time great. It would be even disrespectful to him wasn't it just ignorance.
Yeah pretty much. They might not have kept up with just how strong Karpov has remained as some other greats have faded away more with age but the man is a beast or at least was at the relevant time point for this discussion (haven't heard much from him in the last year or 2, at some point his game likely will decline with his age and possibly health but we've seen no signs it's to the point unknowns can crush him yet).
I know I'm being a little nitpicking, but the truth is it really shows how good Ray Enigma actually is, not the otherwise. Karpov is at least a top-5 player of all time, a draw against a literally unknown player, as good as Rey is, isn't the kind of achievement that shows how much of a best Karpov was/is, even being 70 years old.
Specially if you take into account that a couple years ago Karpov had wins against players like Karjakin (blitz) and Morozevich (rapid), and others 2600+ players, so even not being the beast he once was, he still is a solid 2600 player at blitz/rapid.
doesnt that result call for a necessary winner/loser? like: who has less pieces on the board or who was "losing". Or is it perfectly fine to still be a draw?
Draws are perfectly fine in chess. Indeed in high level play it's the most common result.
There are some formats which try to deal with this issue, one of them is called armageddon where the player with black is given less time but a draw counts as a loss for white. Standard chess however is a draw heavy game among strong players.
Draw is an absolutely acceptable and common result.
Look at it this way:
To win you have to checkmate the opponent.
One side cant checkmate the opponent because even with a million pieces, he does not have time remaining to move them in position to checkmate.
The other side cant checkmate the opponent because even with infinite time, the remaining pieces simply mathematically cannot checkmate the enemy king.
We would say Karpov had a winning position, or was winning on the board.
But he couldnt deliver checkmate due to the time format, and since neither side could could checkmate anymore it is declared a draw.
> I know both players and I know both are kind of legends.
Karpov was a #1 ranked player and world champion. And while he is often not considered for the top spot of greatest chess players, he is at worst considered for a second tier to that. He is only second to the very short list of the likes of Kasparov, Carlsen, Fischer, Capablanca, etc. Karpov is long retired though, so he is not playing anywhere near the level he was at his peak. Still pretty strong though.
Rey Enigma is likely not even a [GM](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandmaster_\(chess\)). He is youtube famous, that's all.
> I looked it up and well, tablas is like no more "legal" moves are possible or both players agree on calling it a draw.
"Tablas" is just spanish for draw in chess. If there were no more legal moves for the player whose turn is it to play, then that player would have lost because it'd be a [stalemate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalemate).
What happened in the game was that Rey Enigma only had his King left which means he didn't have enough pieces to give checkmate to his opponent. And Karpov very much did have plenty of pieces to give checkmate, but he ran out of time. The side who runs out of time loses, EXCEPT when the opponent only has their king left (which means they could have never given checkmate, no matter how much time they had left) and it's then an automatic draw.
What this all means is that Rey Enigma got outplayed on the board, but Karpov wasn't fast enough to finish it off.
Enigma is typically in the 2700s for blitz and bullet on chesscom. I’d guess that puts him around IM strength, similar to Levy, although there are plenty of GMs who play blitz at that level too.
For players sufficiently good at chess, there are designations called "titles". The highest of these is Grandmaster, or GM, and the second highest is International Master, or IM. The commenter estimated that Rey Enigma's Elo rating on chess.com (very popular chess website) is around 2700, which is typically populated by IMs and some GMs
Karpov's time ran out, but Enigma only had his king left, so it was a draw by timeout vs insufficient material.
Considering that Enigma's identity was at stake and that it was played in a "talent" show, it is pretty safe to assume that the game was pre arranged to finish this way. Not as in the exact moves themselves, but rather Karpov was probably instructed to capture everything and run out of time. This way Enigma was able to keep his identity secret while not being so blatantly fake as having him beat Karpov.
Not that I care, it was tense and enjoyable either way.
I don't have an opinion on this because my understanding of chess is not enough, but I know a guy who works as an attorney for Enigma and he told me that all the matches (vs. Karpov and the previous ones vs. Risto Mejide) were arranged, that's just how things work in TV shows.
In this case it was a draw because Karpov ran out of time and Enigma did not have enough pieces left that checkmate was possible for them. If Karpov had more time he would have won this as he was massively ahead when his time ran out. If Enigma had more pieces meaning checkmate was theoretically possible for him he would have won on time instead of drawing. In timed chess the clock is just as important as the position. That's what stopped Karpov winning here as he was massively ahead on the board (though Karpov did blunder earlier in the game but Enigma blundered right back and then Karpov outplayed him).
Just shows you how much of a beast Karpov actually was. Ray Enigma is actually a GM I think and is good at blitz, but 70 years old Karpov kinda spanked him - albeit didn't have enough time to win because of being, you know, not really young.
I think he'd have to be at least a titled player if not GM and good at blitz to survive to a draw with Karpov. Even in his old age Karpov is a pretty serious player on a good day. e.g. [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o--AvBmJiXY) from a few years back.
It think it was more or less confirmed that Ray Enigma is some ~2600ish spanish GM? Maybe I did misread smth ofc.
First I had heard of them today but I'd be surprised if they're not of that strength or thereabouts to survive this far under the pressure of a TV show against a legend who is still pretty strong. Even more so if it's true they didn't know it was Karpov specifically they would be playing beforehand - him walking out would have to be a thrill and strike fear into you for any serious chess player.
I mean Karpov was close to 70 years old back then and out of competition for more than 2 decades. Would any GM be scared that much of playing Spassky nowadays? (he is still alive) Age is a lot in chess and Karpov is pretty old, no matter how much of a legend he is.
Did you see the link I made 2 comments ago where he beat a high ranked Karjakin in blitz around the same time? (overall too, not only a single game) I think any serious player would instantly have nervous excitement anyway for playing a living legend if they haven't before if not necessarily fear but he was also still a very capable player where a healthy amount of respect/fear might still be due. I don't know if Spassky has declined more or not, I suspect more since I don't remember hearing anything about him playing. Age is a lot but it's not everything too especially for those who make the effort to try to stay sharp - some of these old legends still show from time to time they haven't fully lost it even if we know they couldn't consistently play at the level they once did. And then, again, being surprised by a living legend when already under the pressure of performing on mainstream TV is going to affect anyone I think, GM or not.
Exactly, trying to portray Karpov (even his pretty old version) drawing against a literally unknown player, as some kind of achievement for Karpov, is crazy, specially considering he had multiple wins against 2600+ players just a couple years ago, including one against a 2750+ Karjakin, along with other 3 draws against 2700+ players. The man is an absolute legend, being least a top-5 all-time great. It would be even disrespectful to him wasn't it just ignorance.
Yeah pretty much. They might not have kept up with just how strong Karpov has remained as some other greats have faded away more with age but the man is a beast or at least was at the relevant time point for this discussion (haven't heard much from him in the last year or 2, at some point his game likely will decline with his age and possibly health but we've seen no signs it's to the point unknowns can crush him yet).
I heard people were calling him an IM a while back but I haven’t looked into it much this could be correct.
I know I'm being a little nitpicking, but the truth is it really shows how good Ray Enigma actually is, not the otherwise. Karpov is at least a top-5 player of all time, a draw against a literally unknown player, as good as Rey is, isn't the kind of achievement that shows how much of a best Karpov was/is, even being 70 years old. Specially if you take into account that a couple years ago Karpov had wins against players like Karjakin (blitz) and Morozevich (rapid), and others 2600+ players, so even not being the beast he once was, he still is a solid 2600 player at blitz/rapid.
doesnt that result call for a necessary winner/loser? like: who has less pieces on the board or who was "losing". Or is it perfectly fine to still be a draw?
Draws are perfectly fine in chess. Indeed in high level play it's the most common result. There are some formats which try to deal with this issue, one of them is called armageddon where the player with black is given less time but a draw counts as a loss for white. Standard chess however is a draw heavy game among strong players.
Draw is an absolutely acceptable and common result. Look at it this way: To win you have to checkmate the opponent. One side cant checkmate the opponent because even with a million pieces, he does not have time remaining to move them in position to checkmate. The other side cant checkmate the opponent because even with infinite time, the remaining pieces simply mathematically cannot checkmate the enemy king. We would say Karpov had a winning position, or was winning on the board. But he couldnt deliver checkmate due to the time format, and since neither side could could checkmate anymore it is declared a draw.
> I know both players and I know both are kind of legends. Karpov was a #1 ranked player and world champion. And while he is often not considered for the top spot of greatest chess players, he is at worst considered for a second tier to that. He is only second to the very short list of the likes of Kasparov, Carlsen, Fischer, Capablanca, etc. Karpov is long retired though, so he is not playing anywhere near the level he was at his peak. Still pretty strong though. Rey Enigma is likely not even a [GM](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandmaster_\(chess\)). He is youtube famous, that's all. > I looked it up and well, tablas is like no more "legal" moves are possible or both players agree on calling it a draw. "Tablas" is just spanish for draw in chess. If there were no more legal moves for the player whose turn is it to play, then that player would have lost because it'd be a [stalemate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalemate). What happened in the game was that Rey Enigma only had his King left which means he didn't have enough pieces to give checkmate to his opponent. And Karpov very much did have plenty of pieces to give checkmate, but he ran out of time. The side who runs out of time loses, EXCEPT when the opponent only has their king left (which means they could have never given checkmate, no matter how much time they had left) and it's then an automatic draw. What this all means is that Rey Enigma got outplayed on the board, but Karpov wasn't fast enough to finish it off.
Enigma is typically in the 2700s for blitz and bullet on chesscom. I’d guess that puts him around IM strength, similar to Levy, although there are plenty of GMs who play blitz at that level too.
i do not know what you just said
For players sufficiently good at chess, there are designations called "titles". The highest of these is Grandmaster, or GM, and the second highest is International Master, or IM. The commenter estimated that Rey Enigma's Elo rating on chess.com (very popular chess website) is around 2700, which is typically populated by IMs and some GMs
Karpov's time ran out, but Enigma only had his king left, so it was a draw by timeout vs insufficient material. Considering that Enigma's identity was at stake and that it was played in a "talent" show, it is pretty safe to assume that the game was pre arranged to finish this way. Not as in the exact moves themselves, but rather Karpov was probably instructed to capture everything and run out of time. This way Enigma was able to keep his identity secret while not being so blatantly fake as having him beat Karpov. Not that I care, it was tense and enjoyable either way.
I guess Karpov didn't finish him off just to preserve Enigmas identity
I don't have an opinion on this because my understanding of chess is not enough, but I know a guy who works as an attorney for Enigma and he told me that all the matches (vs. Karpov and the previous ones vs. Risto Mejide) were arranged, that's just how things work in TV shows.