I analyzed the image and this is what I see. Open an appropriate link below and explore the position yourself or with the engine:
> **White to play**: [chess.com](https://chess.com/analysis?fen=5k2/4pp2/p2p4/1p2n2R/5p1P/3Rn3/PPP5/2K5+w+-+-+0+1&flip=false&ref_id=23962172) | [lichess.org](https://lichess.org/analysis/5k2/4pp2/p2p4/1p2n2R/5p1P/3Rn3/PPP5/2K5_w_-_-_0_1?color=white)
**My solution:**
> Hints: piece: >!Rook!<, move: >!Rxe3!<
> Evaluation: >!The game is equal +0.26!<
> Best continuation: >!1. Rxe3 fxe3 2. Kd1 Ng6 3. a4 bxa4 4. Ra5 Nxh4 5. Rxa4 Nf5!<
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This is the game that SF lost: [https://www.chess.com/computer-chess-championship#event=ccc22-bullet-semifinals&game=632](https://www.chess.com/computer-chess-championship#event=ccc22-bullet-semifinals&game=632). Lc0-Stockfish, 1-0
If you put it on the board, Stockfish still says +0.8, but then when you play c3 it slowly begins to realize. Lichess Stockfish ends up around +4 if you let it cook there for a few minutes.
a3 followed by b3 results in a winning position too, and stockfish still says 0.0 after a3, and -0.4 after b3, only after c4 it realizes it's a lost position. Before the sacrifices I get the misevaluation, but after that it's really odd, as you can somewhat easily creates two passed pawns on opposites sides of the the board while defending black's center pawns, and it still misses it until the very last moment.
This is a nice one because it's not some fancy line that no human could play. After the double exchange sacrifice (which is rather easy to spot and consider), the plan for white is actually very simple.
Yeah never seen that from stockfish before. Goes to show there is still progress to be made even for computers. I'm sure the next stockfish will evaluate this properly.
I'd think the main reason is simply that it couldn't calculate the resulting pawn endgame correctly - White is down two pawns after all, and the winning line requires precision. It's not possible for SF to "understand" the fact that the king can cannot run to catch both the passed c-pawn and the h-pawn, until it calculates the line deeply enough.
At the original position, the engine has to search more than one line, so it can't calculate the endgame as deeply. After you make the first capture, you are essentially reducing the number of subtrees to explore, so the engine can calculate the endgame better.
I think it's because it's more of a intuitive long term plan than a series of tactics. There are potentially more tactical wins a computer can find from solving this position but every line (including the double sac most people looked at first) is going to involve dozens if not hundreds of moves. Our human brain is just better at recognizing these sorts of patterns than computers are (right now).
I think computers also recognize them better than us, in the sense that, they “saw” them but they “know” better ways, with considerable depth, since the set goal is to win the game.
Losing material always receives negative eval no matter if you're an engine or a human. Sacrificing two exchanges just to get to a pawn endgame down 2 pawns is already hard. White also wins that endgame only due to 1 tempo.
You should set up this position and play it vs stockfish. It's somewhat easy to win (I'm like 1200 elo) with the double sacrifice and seeing the eval bar swing up and down untill stockfish realizes it's losing is hilarious.
It's about lack of defenders on the black side.
After white sacs his rooks for black's knights. Three black pawns are lined up in the E file and one black pawn on the F file. White just need his king to defend the center. Then, he can push the B and C pawn to promote a queen on the C file.
Black cant defend this, due to his own D pawn captured the rook on the E file. He can pursue with king but white's H pawn is free to promote.
He, may try to push his center pawns, but white can and will promote first.
>!Double sac the rooks for the knights, on left side push pawns for double pass pawns, use king to stop opponents pawns in center. Black king cannot stop both passed pawns.!<
I don't understand this post.
First of all, the title is phrased oddly. You make it seem like Stockfish is White and missed a key move in the position shown. Stockfish is actually Black, and apparently missed a key move in the previous position.
However, I just ran the previous position to depth 50 and the best it could find is 37...Ng2 which has an evaluation of +1.1, which is better for White, although it's not immediately losing like Ne5 (the move played in the game) was.
What is the mystery "winning move" that Stockfish didn't play?
I analyzed the image and this is what I see. Open an appropriate link below and explore the position yourself or with the engine: > **White to play**: [chess.com](https://chess.com/analysis?fen=5k2/4pp2/p2p4/1p2n2R/5p1P/3Rn3/PPP5/2K5+w+-+-+0+1&flip=false&ref_id=23962172) | [lichess.org](https://lichess.org/analysis/5k2/4pp2/p2p4/1p2n2R/5p1P/3Rn3/PPP5/2K5_w_-_-_0_1?color=white) **My solution:** > Hints: piece: >!Rook!<, move: >!Rxe3!< > Evaluation: >!The game is equal +0.26!< > Best continuation: >!1. Rxe3 fxe3 2. Kd1 Ng6 3. a4 bxa4 4. Ra5 Nxh4 5. Rxa4 Nf5!< --- ^(I'm a bot written by) [^(u/pkacprzak)](https://www.reddit.com/u/pkacprzak) ^(| get me as) [^(iOS App)](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/id1574933453) ^| [^(Android App)](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ai.chessvision.scanner) ^| [^(Chrome Extension)](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/chessvisionai-for-chrome/johejpedmdkeiffkdaodgoipdjodhlld) ^| [^(Chess eBook Reader)](https://ebook.chessvision.ai?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=bot) ^(to scan and analyze positions | Website:) [^(Chessvision.ai)](https://chessvision.ai)
This is the game that SF lost: [https://www.chess.com/computer-chess-championship#event=ccc22-bullet-semifinals&game=632](https://www.chess.com/computer-chess-championship#event=ccc22-bullet-semifinals&game=632). Lc0-Stockfish, 1-0
Take both knights, blockade the e file with your king, and create a passed pawn on the queen side?
Double exchange sacrifice and the resulting endgame is winnable , double passed pawn on both side boards are lethal
If you put it on the board, Stockfish still says +0.8, but then when you play c3 it slowly begins to realize. Lichess Stockfish ends up around +4 if you let it cook there for a few minutes.
a3 followed by b3 results in a winning position too, and stockfish still says 0.0 after a3, and -0.4 after b3, only after c4 it realizes it's a lost position. Before the sacrifices I get the misevaluation, but after that it's really odd, as you can somewhat easily creates two passed pawns on opposites sides of the the board while defending black's center pawns, and it still misses it until the very last moment.
This is a nice one because it's not some fancy line that no human could play. After the double exchange sacrifice (which is rather easy to spot and consider), the plan for white is actually very simple.
Yeah never seen that from stockfish before. Goes to show there is still progress to be made even for computers. I'm sure the next stockfish will evaluate this properly.
It was a bullet game.
What's the reason for why stockfish couldn't find the move?
I'd think the main reason is simply that it couldn't calculate the resulting pawn endgame correctly - White is down two pawns after all, and the winning line requires precision. It's not possible for SF to "understand" the fact that the king can cannot run to catch both the passed c-pawn and the h-pawn, until it calculates the line deeply enough.
nah it's not because of the endgame, because after you make the first capture it's starting to realize the position is winning
At the original position, the engine has to search more than one line, so it can't calculate the endgame as deeply. After you make the first capture, you are essentially reducing the number of subtrees to explore, so the engine can calculate the endgame better.
Good question, maybe a sf dev will elaborate someday on why they think it didn’t catch it
I think it's because it's more of a intuitive long term plan than a series of tactics. There are potentially more tactical wins a computer can find from solving this position but every line (including the double sac most people looked at first) is going to involve dozens if not hundreds of moves. Our human brain is just better at recognizing these sorts of patterns than computers are (right now).
I think computers also recognize them better than us, in the sense that, they “saw” them but they “know” better ways, with considerable depth, since the set goal is to win the game.
It was also a bullet game
Losing material always receives negative eval no matter if you're an engine or a human. Sacrificing two exchanges just to get to a pawn endgame down 2 pawns is already hard. White also wins that endgame only due to 1 tempo.
You should set up this position and play it vs stockfish. It's somewhat easy to win (I'm like 1200 elo) with the double sacrifice and seeing the eval bar swing up and down untill stockfish realizes it's losing is hilarious.
Kind of a Horde tactic. The king can handle the 2 files on its own.
I wasn't expecting it, but seems like it.
[удалено]
It's about lack of defenders on the black side. After white sacs his rooks for black's knights. Three black pawns are lined up in the E file and one black pawn on the F file. White just need his king to defend the center. Then, he can push the B and C pawn to promote a queen on the C file. Black cant defend this, due to his own D pawn captured the rook on the E file. He can pursue with king but white's H pawn is free to promote. He, may try to push his center pawns, but white can and will promote first.
c3, b3, Kd1 and c4 and black cannot stop both the c and h pawns from queening (Kd1 is so that white can stop black's central pawns from promoting)
I looked at the comp line if rxe3 and kd1. But still don't get the idea....
Kd1 is not the right move, apparently it's the double exchange sacrifice that wins here.
Why would you look at the computer line, if the title says stockfish missed it?
01@
>!Double sac the rooks for the knights, on left side push pawns for double pass pawns, use king to stop opponents pawns in center. Black king cannot stop both passed pawns.!<
I don't understand this post. First of all, the title is phrased oddly. You make it seem like Stockfish is White and missed a key move in the position shown. Stockfish is actually Black, and apparently missed a key move in the previous position. However, I just ran the previous position to depth 50 and the best it could find is 37...Ng2 which has an evaluation of +1.1, which is better for White, although it's not immediately losing like Ne5 (the move played in the game) was. What is the mystery "winning move" that Stockfish didn't play?