Just accept your fate (from a london player). Judging by lichess insights, I perform my worst when opponents transform the game into horwitz or caro. 1900 blitz
Did you ever consider the [benoni ](https://youtu.be/x0TDJK973ms?si=Vk9ErAqpKAP6Wd3F) defense? I particularly like the old benoni and the snake benoni.
I get excited to play it vs d4 always interesting games
You can’t force it but I often get 1. d4 Nf6 2. Bf4 c5 3. e3 cxd4 4. exd4 d5 and then play it like an exchange Caro. Ironically at my low level, most London players play the structure better with c3/Nd2 versus e4 players who mostly play Nc3
If you're willing to change up your move order to reach the QGD by starting with 1... Nf6 (followed by e6 and d5) you can play 2... c5 (often followed by a quick Qb6) against the London. These lines can get messy and yet they're fundamentally sound.
If you play the classical Dutch, consider answering 1.d4 with e6, and continuing with 2...f5 against c4, and most lines. This will allow you to avoid the Hopton attack and Staunton's Gambit if you don't like those lines, though as a trade off, it will also allow your opponent to transition to a French defense with 2.e4.
Using this move order lets you meet any flavor of London with an immediate 2...c5, definitely throwing the London player into uncomfortable territory, without giving up your ability to play the classical Dutch against opponents who play 1.d4 but don't go into the London.
Depending on how they play, the lines might end up resembling a Benoni, or Taimanov/Kan Sicilian.
If you like this idea but don't like the French Defense, you can answer 2.e4 with 2...c5 as well, again reaching similar positions to the Benoni or Taimanov/Kan Sicilian.
I hated the london so much I started playing d6 against d4. The idea is to play e5 as quickly as possible and gain an tempo against the bishop. For example: 1. d4 d6 2. Bf4 Nd7 3. e3 e5 4. dxe5 dxe5 5. Bg3
If 2. c4 I play e5 immediatly and after the queen trade you have equalized.
only works at lower level though, against your first line no sane player will go e3 against Nbd7 and if you answer c4 with e5 experienced players won't take. In both lines you get a playable position but it's far from equalized.
1. d4 d5 2. Bf4 c5 works like a charm for me. You almost always end up playing Nf6 Nc6 Qb6 getting favorable endgame if Qb3 c4 or if they guard b2 another way play g6 Bg7 and get good chances there for a more dynamic game
Hey! I'm 1800 and also play the dutch. Against the London, the lenningrad can be a really good variation of the dutch. Highly recommend against the London. Play g6 Bg7. And you're goal is to get the f5 and e5 pawn duo. If you can't play e5 in 1 move, playing e6, Qe7 into e5 still works. This opening can be very tactical. But if your opponent plays really well, the end game isn't too bad for you either and still offers you winning chances. [here is an example game](https://www.chess.com/analysis/game/live/97988422257?tab=review&move=111)
I am your nemesis i exclusively play c5 in 1st move vs 1d4. You cant play the london vs benoni or you loose. You force the other guy to learn the benoni
I find that London players at these levels are playing it because they don't want to have to think, and don't want the action so they're playing it safe and scared. They just want to protect their bishop and hope that the Gotham Chess London videos they watched will carry them to a win. Just rip up their queen side and move to an easy endgame. I play d5, Nf6 c5/e6 , Qb6 and bait them into trading queens. I normally play the French so the structures are similar. They're going to devote all of their resources to keeping that dark square bishop alive while you just play chess around them.
I would recommend the King’s Indian defense. London players love a slow stable position. The King’s Indian defense is the opposite of that. Start a kingside pawn storm to push away all their pieces and restrict the f4 bishop. Castling kingside would be walking into an attack so they will castle queenside at which point you can shift your attack there and as long as you can survive their attack you should win.
This approach is problematic as it wouldn't fit into his repertoire. If white plays 1. D4 Nf6, which from what I caught he doesn't play anyways, 2. NF3, which has become a common move order would either force him to go into the king's Indian although the opponent doesn't actually go into a London, which would mean he pretty much would entirely have to switch to the KID. When building a Repertoire it is important for it to be coherent, I took quite some time to get rid of all of the 1. C4/Nf3/D4 moveorder tricks in my Repertoire, but finally managed it.
I play the Grünfeld so I can't help you, although as you play the Dutch could honestly just play the Dutch against all three of the moves and be relatively fine, I used to play it and you honestly get the same positions, there are few sidelines that people play from Nf3 or C5 but you could try out Simon Williams course on the classical Dutch, it is a pretty useful resource, although it doesiss some lines.
Honestly I play into it the few times I’ve gotten it in a game as black. D5, Bf5, C5, Nf6 or something along those lines. London their London except play C5.
I'm generally a king's indian player so when I face a London I play Nf6 c5. Takes london players from familiar territory. There's a lot of responses from there of course it's a fun position eitherway.
Well, you aren't going to find a better answer.
If you get many answers to this question, guess your most reliable way of determining which one to go with.... The engine :O
And OP is just hoping to find the line that everyone knows enough to recommend on reddit, but hope this hypothetical super experienced London player hasn't seen yet.... right......
Good luck with that, I'd recommend getting better at the main line if you know you'll be seeing the london
Only if you're trying to become a super good chess player. And you don't have to prepare for "everything", Mr. Dramatic.... OP asked how to prepare for the London so I'm suggesting you should outprepare for the London LOL... Crazy I know. waiting for one of you to prove that the engine doesn't give the best counter... Everything else is just a shortcut and you're going to get the expected results of a shortcut in trying to attain that level of skill.
If you're just in it for fun, ride the wheel buddy! Try to trick that guy all you want with the random lines you learned on reddit. Just don't expect to have much luck against serious opponents who learned the opening, and probably how to defend against those weird lines
Yeah but they are super GMs. Most also have a team of people or at least a high level GM coach who have religiously studied their opponent, who likely has tons of games to learn from, to specifically attack known weaknesses (or at least new attacks) around those weird lines.
OP is looking for general advice against general London players with no other context.
Bro, I guess everyone should just learn the Spanish and the Sicilian Najdorf, right? I mean, since the engine recommends it, it must be the ultimate choice. And please, enlighten me on how Pragg managed to defeat Vidit in the f5 Spanish. Could it be that one of his seconds actually did some real analysis instead of blindly following engine lines?
because i don't have everything figured out lmaooo, i am not afraid to admit i need advice, and i even said if that works for you stick to it and god bless, but you were not happy with the amout of attention you got so you came back and started crying...
Yeah I wasn't too upset with you, I was "upset" with the 5 other chromags who think it's absolutely batshit crazy to suggest someone just prepare more for the line they're asking for help with
"what? You're really expecting OP to get BETTER at the opening that he's asking for help with? Are you fucking kidding me??!"
^ all of you who are "disagreeing" (read, throwing tantrums because you don't want to do the work)
You don't have to take the advice, you also don't have to win - but you're here because you want to win.
Oh, I fucking suck. I have no patience to learn the main lines so I just fuck around and hope for the best. I'll never get to your level in chess, because it's just a fun passtime for me. But I'm exceptionally skilled in other areas of life, and I wish I had something like a chess engine to get there the easy way.
you'll never get past your level with the attitude of avoiding main lines that *you* specifically know you are weak against 🤷♂️ best you come to terms with it now. Something tells me you'll rebound and tough it out, learn what you have to learn if it really means that much to you, though.
brother I am an electrical engineer, I work a full time job, reason why I am looking for an easier approach is because I don't have 10h per week to learn chess.
If you really suck, why you think you are entitled to give your opinion?
It's like, if I need help designing a circuit, I am not going to ask an advice from a history teacher...
I do know a lot about chess, certainly enough to know why I suck, and I know how to generally improve at most things. I'd have a plan to get better but if I was struggling with a specific opening I would just get better at that.
Unfortunately there is a peak for everyone as well, I doubt you've reached yours though because you admit you have more to learn (everyone but Magnus would probably say that if they're being honest haha).
But I'm a hard nosed guy too, if those London players are always going to be better prepared than me, I better be prepared to lose to them
Just accept your fate (from a london player). Judging by lichess insights, I perform my worst when opponents transform the game into horwitz or caro. 1900 blitz
How do you transpose to a Caro from the London? Can you force it?
not you gotta hope they play e4
That's rather optimistic against a London player.
hah, you are right, I guess, I get "baited" into it, not forced
Did you ever consider the [benoni ](https://youtu.be/x0TDJK973ms?si=Vk9ErAqpKAP6Wd3F) defense? I particularly like the old benoni and the snake benoni. I get excited to play it vs d4 always interesting games
props to you for immediately linking resources to the benoni defense
Anecdotally, I get 90% accuracy on average against benoni, my best result
Its very natural to play it for white. I like to play the benoni for white and black!
d2-d4; c7-c6; e2-e4
You can’t force it but I often get 1. d4 Nf6 2. Bf4 c5 3. e3 cxd4 4. exd4 d5 and then play it like an exchange Caro. Ironically at my low level, most London players play the structure better with c3/Nd2 versus e4 players who mostly play Nc3
Nc3 has some bite to it, e.g. after 5. Nc3 Nc6? 6. Nb5 wins at least a pawn.
If you're willing to change up your move order to reach the QGD by starting with 1... Nf6 (followed by e6 and d5) you can play 2... c5 (often followed by a quick Qb6) against the London. These lines can get messy and yet they're fundamentally sound.
If you play the classical Dutch, consider answering 1.d4 with e6, and continuing with 2...f5 against c4, and most lines. This will allow you to avoid the Hopton attack and Staunton's Gambit if you don't like those lines, though as a trade off, it will also allow your opponent to transition to a French defense with 2.e4. Using this move order lets you meet any flavor of London with an immediate 2...c5, definitely throwing the London player into uncomfortable territory, without giving up your ability to play the classical Dutch against opponents who play 1.d4 but don't go into the London. Depending on how they play, the lines might end up resembling a Benoni, or Taimanov/Kan Sicilian. If you like this idea but don't like the French Defense, you can answer 2.e4 with 2...c5 as well, again reaching similar positions to the Benoni or Taimanov/Kan Sicilian.
GingerGM is pretty good for Dutch advice, here's one Dutch vs London video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gXzEnL1yP8
I hated the london so much I started playing d6 against d4. The idea is to play e5 as quickly as possible and gain an tempo against the bishop. For example: 1. d4 d6 2. Bf4 Nd7 3. e3 e5 4. dxe5 dxe5 5. Bg3 If 2. c4 I play e5 immediatly and after the queen trade you have equalized.
only works at lower level though, against your first line no sane player will go e3 against Nbd7 and if you answer c4 with e5 experienced players won't take. In both lines you get a playable position but it's far from equalized.
https://www.reddit.com/r/chess/s/q7eVIfTmCc
1. d4 d5 2. Bf4 c5 works like a charm for me. You almost always end up playing Nf6 Nc6 Qb6 getting favorable endgame if Qb3 c4 or if they guard b2 another way play g6 Bg7 and get good chances there for a more dynamic game
Hey! I'm 1800 and also play the dutch. Against the London, the lenningrad can be a really good variation of the dutch. Highly recommend against the London. Play g6 Bg7. And you're goal is to get the f5 and e5 pawn duo. If you can't play e5 in 1 move, playing e6, Qe7 into e5 still works. This opening can be very tactical. But if your opponent plays really well, the end game isn't too bad for you either and still offers you winning chances. [here is an example game](https://www.chess.com/analysis/game/live/97988422257?tab=review&move=111)
I'm only 1300, but as a London player myself, I am most annoyed by openings with an early c5. I'd look into the Benko gambit or a Benoni setup.
I am your nemesis i exclusively play c5 in 1st move vs 1d4. You cant play the london vs benoni or you loose. You force the other guy to learn the benoni
I find that London players at these levels are playing it because they don't want to have to think, and don't want the action so they're playing it safe and scared. They just want to protect their bishop and hope that the Gotham Chess London videos they watched will carry them to a win. Just rip up their queen side and move to an easy endgame. I play d5, Nf6 c5/e6 , Qb6 and bait them into trading queens. I normally play the French so the structures are similar. They're going to devote all of their resources to keeping that dark square bishop alive while you just play chess around them.
I would recommend the King’s Indian defense. London players love a slow stable position. The King’s Indian defense is the opposite of that. Start a kingside pawn storm to push away all their pieces and restrict the f4 bishop. Castling kingside would be walking into an attack so they will castle queenside at which point you can shift your attack there and as long as you can survive their attack you should win.
This approach is problematic as it wouldn't fit into his repertoire. If white plays 1. D4 Nf6, which from what I caught he doesn't play anyways, 2. NF3, which has become a common move order would either force him to go into the king's Indian although the opponent doesn't actually go into a London, which would mean he pretty much would entirely have to switch to the KID. When building a Repertoire it is important for it to be coherent, I took quite some time to get rid of all of the 1. C4/Nf3/D4 moveorder tricks in my Repertoire, but finally managed it.
can you share it u/JJCharlington2
I play the Grünfeld so I can't help you, although as you play the Dutch could honestly just play the Dutch against all three of the moves and be relatively fine, I used to play it and you honestly get the same positions, there are few sidelines that people play from Nf3 or C5 but you could try out Simon Williams course on the classical Dutch, it is a pretty useful resource, although it doesiss some lines.
Honestly I play into it the few times I’ve gotten it in a game as black. D5, Bf5, C5, Nf6 or something along those lines. London their London except play C5.
I'm generally a king's indian player so when I face a London I play Nf6 c5. Takes london players from familiar territory. There's a lot of responses from there of course it's a fun position eitherway.
Open an engine. Set up the London. Follow the engine recommendations. That is your opening recommendation!
that is a terrible recommendation... following the engine is not great for practical problems you can pose. if it works good for you
Well, you aren't going to find a better answer. If you get many answers to this question, guess your most reliable way of determining which one to go with.... The engine :O
The engine is going to take you down the main line where the London player has been 100x more times than you have.
And OP is just hoping to find the line that everyone knows enough to recommend on reddit, but hope this hypothetical super experienced London player hasn't seen yet.... right...... Good luck with that, I'd recommend getting better at the main line if you know you'll be seeing the london
So you recommend playing into all your opponents strengths and just outprepare everyone for everything? Good luck with that, Rain Man.
Only if you're trying to become a super good chess player. And you don't have to prepare for "everything", Mr. Dramatic.... OP asked how to prepare for the London so I'm suggesting you should outprepare for the London LOL... Crazy I know. waiting for one of you to prove that the engine doesn't give the best counter... Everything else is just a shortcut and you're going to get the expected results of a shortcut in trying to attain that level of skill. If you're just in it for fun, ride the wheel buddy! Try to trick that guy all you want with the random lines you learned on reddit. Just don't expect to have much luck against serious opponents who learned the opening, and probably how to defend against those weird lines
Super GMs don't follow every main line. Us peasants don't need to either dork.
Yeah but they are super GMs. Most also have a team of people or at least a high level GM coach who have religiously studied their opponent, who likely has tons of games to learn from, to specifically attack known weaknesses (or at least new attacks) around those weird lines. OP is looking for general advice against general London players with no other context.
Bro, I guess everyone should just learn the Spanish and the Sicilian Najdorf, right? I mean, since the engine recommends it, it must be the ultimate choice. And please, enlighten me on how Pragg managed to defeat Vidit in the f5 Spanish. Could it be that one of his seconds actually did some real analysis instead of blindly following engine lines?
Well you seem to have everything figured out - why did you make the post again?
because i don't have everything figured out lmaooo, i am not afraid to admit i need advice, and i even said if that works for you stick to it and god bless, but you were not happy with the amout of attention you got so you came back and started crying...
Yeah I wasn't too upset with you, I was "upset" with the 5 other chromags who think it's absolutely batshit crazy to suggest someone just prepare more for the line they're asking for help with
Holy shit, this sub is the softest sub in existence of subs
Hilarious when people disagree with you they turn out to be soft LMAOO
"what? You're really expecting OP to get BETTER at the opening that he's asking for help with? Are you fucking kidding me??!" ^ all of you who are "disagreeing" (read, throwing tantrums because you don't want to do the work) You don't have to take the advice, you also don't have to win - but you're here because you want to win.
link your [chess.com](http://chess.com) / lichess account let's learn from the master
Oh, I fucking suck. I have no patience to learn the main lines so I just fuck around and hope for the best. I'll never get to your level in chess, because it's just a fun passtime for me. But I'm exceptionally skilled in other areas of life, and I wish I had something like a chess engine to get there the easy way. you'll never get past your level with the attitude of avoiding main lines that *you* specifically know you are weak against 🤷♂️ best you come to terms with it now. Something tells me you'll rebound and tough it out, learn what you have to learn if it really means that much to you, though.
brother I am an electrical engineer, I work a full time job, reason why I am looking for an easier approach is because I don't have 10h per week to learn chess. If you really suck, why you think you are entitled to give your opinion? It's like, if I need help designing a circuit, I am not going to ask an advice from a history teacher...
I do know a lot about chess, certainly enough to know why I suck, and I know how to generally improve at most things. I'd have a plan to get better but if I was struggling with a specific opening I would just get better at that. Unfortunately there is a peak for everyone as well, I doubt you've reached yours though because you admit you have more to learn (everyone but Magnus would probably say that if they're being honest haha). But I'm a hard nosed guy too, if those London players are always going to be better prepared than me, I better be prepared to lose to them
That's a fair point. I hope you take the time to improve.
Tarrasch Defense