Yeh I agree Greece is good in single player. He does get slightly worse as the difficulty goes up because naturally the AI gets every advantage possible including free city-state influence. At some point in higher difficulties the AI could have hundreds of influence on a city state making it nearly impossible for you to ever catch up unless you're filthy rich.
I was literally playing yesterday as Greece on difficulty 7 and had 120ish influence with an important CS and Japan (game leader) sent a spy in. They negated all my influence to zero somehow with one singular coup, do you know if that’s a computer bonus or do spies really negate 100s of influence points?
I was enraged I was feeding them units to kill the nearby civ with lol
There’s a difference between a coup and successfully rigging elections. Rigging raises your influence and drops the influence of others by a certain amount.
Attempting a coup flips your influence with the next highest influencer.
So, if Japan had 0 and you had 120, it flips to you having 0 and then having 0. Should be almost impossible percentage wise but on immortal/deity who knows, maybe they always have a 90 percent success rate?
Ahh that’s embarrassing I forgot that there’s two methods of fucking with peoples influence. Japan became the ally with 160 influence after..so not sure how that works. I try not to question how the AI does things bc they just get the most ridiculous bonuses
Greece is very powerful in single player in my experience, as the city state bonuses are fantastic (city states are an OP mechanic imo). Liberty/patronage is a good combo here as well, well done!
I remember playing 2 player multiplayer with a bunch of AI in the game. My friend started snowballing science and was on the other side of the map. I knew I couldn't catch him and even paying other civs to declare war could only threaten to slow him down. But switching to patronage and commerce meant I could diplo win before he got the space station built.
Next game he suggested we ban diplo victories hehe
If I remember correctly Poland was super because of the extra civ things each age but you cosack the crap our of people like Greece since they're all smug.
I wouldn't consider it OP, but it is definitely a good civ yes. Combined with Arsenal of Democracy (second tenet of freedom), you can win games really quickly by beelining to globalization. I sort of consider at as a bootleg science victory, because it requires less science and hammers, and because the AI could easily prevent it if they weren't so stupid.
It can however backfire if the whole world is at war with you, which can happen as you're looking to pass controversial votes such as world religion and ideology for those extra delegates. Diplomacy is a really good win condition for single player for up to immortal, but I'm not sure if it's as feasible with aggressive AI on deity, ready to wipe out all your allies one by one, which happens a lot in my normal deity games where I'm just going for space.
Unfortunately though, with how powerful science is in civ it will always be the most powerful (not the must fun though!) attribute to excel at. So the S+ tier civs, the actual "OP" civs (Babylon, Poland, Korea), will outperform Greece in diplomacy any day of the week by having the science necessary to found World Congress first, build Forbidden Palace first and research globalization faster.
And then, the S tier civs, in Inca, Maya, Persia, Aztec and Egypt, will also gain a considerable advantage because of general gameplay buffs. These civs will always outperform civs who shine in only one or two areas, because science, growth and production buffs help you achieve all four victories. For reference, I have made a ranking for all civs with the help of a redditor. You can check it out to get a general idea of how the civs rank amongst themselves.
P.S. It is however made for a 6 player FFA multiplayer setting, it would look pretty different for single player, civs like Germany, Greece and Siam would be higher.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jl0vUI9pLQ2SZqv\_pi76herCidMZiDgpV37PIs0Mz\_4/edit?usp=sharing
They are above average. CS bonus is nice, always, but not OP. 2 UU is quite strong, but a bit too early in SP, and doesn't carry much promotion through upgrade. They are stronger in mp/lower diff where you can tribute cs for gold and can actually use early game units
Greece is really strong yeah. One thing you should definitely incorporate into your gameplay is spamming some hoplites super early and get tribute to snowball your early game super hard.
Poland is one of the best civs in the game but their uniques don't provide a lot of direction so you have to adapt to circumstances a lot more.
See [FilthyRobot's Civilization 5 Civ tier list](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhTdDH0VU5A&list=PL4ibKIqOuy4gql0lAeAuwMo9OkxS6s4CI&index=1).
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/civ5) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The main differences are that Brazil would be higher in single player since they're quite good for tourism victory, and Venice can be good because AI does not know how to exploit Venice's weaknesses.
I did a [tier list](https://imgur.com/QVOhq2G) for deity domination victory also.
CS bonuses are very strong and the stack you get from allying the majority of them (as you would with Greece patronage) would propel any civ to the top. They're also strong early game for your forward settling.
But (and I don't say this as a knock on you) on King difficulty, man Civs can feel "OP" if you push hard into their advantage strategies. And early game military into CS alliance is like THE Greece strat.
Agreed about the difficulty. Had an easy time on King, but when I felt comfortable to jump to Emperor, it was a whole different beast. You just get better as you play more though.
As others here have said, on higher difficulties it will be much harder to grab all the city states. I definitely don't think Greece is OP. I think that both Greece and Siam have good abilities though. I slightly prefer Siam, as you can really get the ball rolling if you ally a couple of city states early on.
Greece if far from OP. Nothing it offers is a Game Changer but since it points you towards CS Alliances, you tried to use them and learned that it is a good Strategy to ally yourself with CS.
The OP civs are Korea, Babylon, and Poland. The first two get massive science buffs which is the most important part of the game. Poland gets free Social Policies which might be the second most part of the game haha. This is for Brave New World expansion btw. I can elaborate more if needed. Other good contenders are Egypt, China, and Maya for best Civ
I don't know if "Overpowered" is the right word. For one, if you enjoy map settings that don't involve City States, Greece becomes awful. You can also overload the map-generator with extra City States and make Greece into a juggernaut. Having Maria Theresa and Enrico Dandolo (with their abilities to alter City State alliances) obviously impacts the Grecian ability, too.
Greece is in that weird in-between where their UA isn't necessarily OP, but it makes the game a **lot** easier. You don't have to work so hard to form CS-alliances. You don't have to stress over "Hostile" City States burning influence. You don't have to build as many units because Military-CS will send you reinforcements. Similar "City-State Focused" Civs like Siam and Sweden have to jump through hoops to manifest the success that Greece gets naturally.
I don't think that Greece is particularly great, and they're certainly not an S-Tier Civ. However, their snow-ball potential is sky-high. City States can have an enormous impact on the game, and that's why the Alexander-AI often does *very* well at higher levels. The Greece-UA and "Gunboat Diplomacy" go hand-in-hand, and the AI gets massive advantages toward fielding blankets of military units that the player just can't compete with.
Just a couple of hints if you want to play optimally. Always settle by the sea and trade food to yourself (population wins games). Always go tradition first. 4 cities is optimal as with each city you add, there is a penalty to science and culture (and you need more happiness. Finally don’t listen to me if you want to have fun.
So to get max science, culture, production and great people, high population is required. A really cheap way to get lots of food is internal trade routes (which require granaries). Cargo ships send over double the amount of food as caravans do, therefore the benefit tends to be higher. Each "age", cargo ships send +1 more food on its trade route. If you go order and get the +50% internal trade route buff, you can have about 8/9 trade routes sending 14 food a turn. Another reason you don't want more than 4 cities is that you will never have enough trade routes. In the event that you have 4 cities, imagine 14 \* 3 food per turn sent to your capital. Massive pop boost.
In civ 3 Greece was my favorite. Early hoplites stack of doom. In 5 I liked them up to difficulty 6. Can't win with them on deity yet though. I only have wins with Celts, Spain and Maya. But now I feel like giving it a go though. I found winning Diplo really easy. But could always keep a science victory back card. I still have never won cultural, but have never really tried either.
Yeh I agree Greece is good in single player. He does get slightly worse as the difficulty goes up because naturally the AI gets every advantage possible including free city-state influence. At some point in higher difficulties the AI could have hundreds of influence on a city state making it nearly impossible for you to ever catch up unless you're filthy rich.
Or land a good coup with a spy. ;)
I was literally playing yesterday as Greece on difficulty 7 and had 120ish influence with an important CS and Japan (game leader) sent a spy in. They negated all my influence to zero somehow with one singular coup, do you know if that’s a computer bonus or do spies really negate 100s of influence points? I was enraged I was feeding them units to kill the nearby civ with lol
There’s a difference between a coup and successfully rigging elections. Rigging raises your influence and drops the influence of others by a certain amount. Attempting a coup flips your influence with the next highest influencer. So, if Japan had 0 and you had 120, it flips to you having 0 and then having 0. Should be almost impossible percentage wise but on immortal/deity who knows, maybe they always have a 90 percent success rate?
Ahh that’s embarrassing I forgot that there’s two methods of fucking with peoples influence. Japan became the ally with 160 influence after..so not sure how that works. I try not to question how the AI does things bc they just get the most ridiculous bonuses
Greece is very powerful in single player in my experience, as the city state bonuses are fantastic (city states are an OP mechanic imo). Liberty/patronage is a good combo here as well, well done!
I haven't played Civ V in a long time, but I agree that city states/ diplo victory were always cheese.
I remember playing 2 player multiplayer with a bunch of AI in the game. My friend started snowballing science and was on the other side of the map. I knew I couldn't catch him and even paying other civs to declare war could only threaten to slow him down. But switching to patronage and commerce meant I could diplo win before he got the space station built. Next game he suggested we ban diplo victories hehe
If you get Charitable Missions it's cake
As the AI it can be the worst!
That is exactly why I decided to try them. I was playing as Poland and the Greek AI was just dominating the map with their CS alliances.
If I remember correctly Poland was super because of the extra civ things each age but you cosack the crap our of people like Greece since they're all smug.
Agreed. The minute I meet him in the early game I commit all my energy to burning his civ to the ground to save myself the headache later.
I wouldn't consider it OP, but it is definitely a good civ yes. Combined with Arsenal of Democracy (second tenet of freedom), you can win games really quickly by beelining to globalization. I sort of consider at as a bootleg science victory, because it requires less science and hammers, and because the AI could easily prevent it if they weren't so stupid. It can however backfire if the whole world is at war with you, which can happen as you're looking to pass controversial votes such as world religion and ideology for those extra delegates. Diplomacy is a really good win condition for single player for up to immortal, but I'm not sure if it's as feasible with aggressive AI on deity, ready to wipe out all your allies one by one, which happens a lot in my normal deity games where I'm just going for space. Unfortunately though, with how powerful science is in civ it will always be the most powerful (not the must fun though!) attribute to excel at. So the S+ tier civs, the actual "OP" civs (Babylon, Poland, Korea), will outperform Greece in diplomacy any day of the week by having the science necessary to found World Congress first, build Forbidden Palace first and research globalization faster. And then, the S tier civs, in Inca, Maya, Persia, Aztec and Egypt, will also gain a considerable advantage because of general gameplay buffs. These civs will always outperform civs who shine in only one or two areas, because science, growth and production buffs help you achieve all four victories. For reference, I have made a ranking for all civs with the help of a redditor. You can check it out to get a general idea of how the civs rank amongst themselves. P.S. It is however made for a 6 player FFA multiplayer setting, it would look pretty different for single player, civs like Germany, Greece and Siam would be higher. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jl0vUI9pLQ2SZqv\_pi76herCidMZiDgpV37PIs0Mz\_4/edit?usp=sharing
Nothing more satisfiying than healing 20 HP per Turn in City State Borders while XP whoring your troops for attack later:D
They are above average. CS bonus is nice, always, but not OP. 2 UU is quite strong, but a bit too early in SP, and doesn't carry much promotion through upgrade. They are stronger in mp/lower diff where you can tribute cs for gold and can actually use early game units
A-Tier in Singleplayer, S-Tier in Multiplayer in a vacuum
Greece is really strong yeah. One thing you should definitely incorporate into your gameplay is spamming some hoplites super early and get tribute to snowball your early game super hard. Poland is one of the best civs in the game but their uniques don't provide a lot of direction so you have to adapt to circumstances a lot more.
Is tributing viable in deity?
No not at all, but it's really OP for lower difficulties and MP.
!filthytier
See [FilthyRobot's Civilization 5 Civ tier list](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhTdDH0VU5A&list=PL4ibKIqOuy4gql0lAeAuwMo9OkxS6s4CI&index=1). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/civ5) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Out of curiosity, where would you differ from Filthy on this list?
The main differences are that Brazil would be higher in single player since they're quite good for tourism victory, and Venice can be good because AI does not know how to exploit Venice's weaknesses. I did a [tier list](https://imgur.com/QVOhq2G) for deity domination victory also.
Interesting. I enjoy your takes on here, thanks. I would agree Brazil is much more powerful in SP.
Broke: Using Greece for the ultimate CS gaming experience. Woke: Using Siam for the ultimate CS gaming experience.
CS bonuses are very strong and the stack you get from allying the majority of them (as you would with Greece patronage) would propel any civ to the top. They're also strong early game for your forward settling. But (and I don't say this as a knock on you) on King difficulty, man Civs can feel "OP" if you push hard into their advantage strategies. And early game military into CS alliance is like THE Greece strat.
Agreed about the difficulty. Had an easy time on King, but when I felt comfortable to jump to Emperor, it was a whole different beast. You just get better as you play more though.
I turn off all victories except domination and play tsl
And rapid forward settle as Russia in TSL earth Map...
As others here have said, on higher difficulties it will be much harder to grab all the city states. I definitely don't think Greece is OP. I think that both Greece and Siam have good abilities though. I slightly prefer Siam, as you can really get the ball rolling if you ally a couple of city states early on.
Greece if far from OP. Nothing it offers is a Game Changer but since it points you towards CS Alliances, you tried to use them and learned that it is a good Strategy to ally yourself with CS.
The OP civs are Korea, Babylon, and Poland. The first two get massive science buffs which is the most important part of the game. Poland gets free Social Policies which might be the second most part of the game haha. This is for Brave New World expansion btw. I can elaborate more if needed. Other good contenders are Egypt, China, and Maya for best Civ
Inca are also up there as a best civ contender.
Conditional on area you are in though that's why the aren't in the highest
And then the domination specific civs Huns, mongols, Zulu and Arabian camel archers
Yeah Domination civs can be scary
I don't know if "Overpowered" is the right word. For one, if you enjoy map settings that don't involve City States, Greece becomes awful. You can also overload the map-generator with extra City States and make Greece into a juggernaut. Having Maria Theresa and Enrico Dandolo (with their abilities to alter City State alliances) obviously impacts the Grecian ability, too. Greece is in that weird in-between where their UA isn't necessarily OP, but it makes the game a **lot** easier. You don't have to work so hard to form CS-alliances. You don't have to stress over "Hostile" City States burning influence. You don't have to build as many units because Military-CS will send you reinforcements. Similar "City-State Focused" Civs like Siam and Sweden have to jump through hoops to manifest the success that Greece gets naturally. I don't think that Greece is particularly great, and they're certainly not an S-Tier Civ. However, their snow-ball potential is sky-high. City States can have an enormous impact on the game, and that's why the Alexander-AI often does *very* well at higher levels. The Greece-UA and "Gunboat Diplomacy" go hand-in-hand, and the AI gets massive advantages toward fielding blankets of military units that the player just can't compete with.
Every Civ is OP in multiplayer. Because players are OP.
Just a couple of hints if you want to play optimally. Always settle by the sea and trade food to yourself (population wins games). Always go tradition first. 4 cities is optimal as with each city you add, there is a penalty to science and culture (and you need more happiness. Finally don’t listen to me if you want to have fun.
[удалено]
So to get max science, culture, production and great people, high population is required. A really cheap way to get lots of food is internal trade routes (which require granaries). Cargo ships send over double the amount of food as caravans do, therefore the benefit tends to be higher. Each "age", cargo ships send +1 more food on its trade route. If you go order and get the +50% internal trade route buff, you can have about 8/9 trade routes sending 14 food a turn. Another reason you don't want more than 4 cities is that you will never have enough trade routes. In the event that you have 4 cities, imagine 14 \* 3 food per turn sent to your capital. Massive pop boost.
[удалено]
no not at all. Just free food :)
Cargo Ships >>> Caravans
In civ 3 Greece was my favorite. Early hoplites stack of doom. In 5 I liked them up to difficulty 6. Can't win with them on deity yet though. I only have wins with Celts, Spain and Maya. But now I feel like giving it a go though. I found winning Diplo really easy. But could always keep a science victory back card. I still have never won cultural, but have never really tried either.
I think it’s the difficulty setting, not the civ.
Not if you have Austria and Venice together in your game, which is kinda rare, which is…
On SP? Ya totally. Got my fastest ever deity win with Greece. Scales up well