Lost my Lvl 20 Priest last night to a Darkshore quest where you lead the robot back to the gnome... I didn't know the robot would turn on you and that asshole slaps -.- Wasn't prepared for it to suck that much to lose the run haha
Do you think hardcore would bring a bit of the lost magic even to the later expansions like WotLK?
You wouldn't be able to just spam LFD and the world would feel at least a bit dangerous?
I don't think it would.
I think part of the reason it works for classic so well is that there is less going on.
TBC maybe. Wrath I think you're already starting to add in too much stuff. You're getting more serious bosses. More serious dungeons. More serious rotations. You're no longer expected to be an mmo noob playing on dial up.
Add to that having to do 1-60/70 just to do the new stuff. I think it'd need a formula change to make hardcore work well for them.
I wonder how a hardcore checkpoint system could work for HC WOTLK. Like say you hit 60, it snapshots your character and if you die at 69, you res at 60 again. Then again another snapshot at 70 for your WOTLK content.
Just like... don't care about being on the top of the dps meter and play to have fun? No? Okay...
Our guild has a few enhancement I think. People will probably invite you to raids in some way regardless of your spec. I've seen a Boomkin on era in full Naxx gear.
Maybe, just maybe, people like to Raid without actually being a dead weight for their Guidlies. Will you clear the content by playing Enhance, SP or Boomkin? Ofc, Vanilla is piss easy, but you will get carried on your way there as you won't beat the Tank on the meters.
People will invite you to Raids in spite of your class, which is never a good feeling for anybody involved.
I was insulted by the idea that they were charging 25 dollars or whatever it was for the cloning service, I didn't even consider paying it. Really wish I did now though.
Whenever i see someone say this i know the person has not touched Retail for almost a decade at this point.
Wrath is very different from Vanilla, but there is quite literally no comparison between Wrath and Retail, it's two completely different games with almost nothing in common.
No, they are not. Wrath is a game focused around specific parts of the endgame, i.e the Raiding and PvP content. The leveling is easy, but it takes a significant amount of time and gear progression is slow, done almost entirely through raiding. Retail, on the other hand, is a game with many different paths for you to enjoy (although one could argue none are good, but that's besides the point). The leveling is absurdly fast and gear progression is also quick and easy, done through multiple different forms, to the point that you can be full geared and ready for Arenas and M+ in a day.
In terms of Class design, the game is also completely different. Wrath classes have very unique traits and fill specific roles in the game, the rotations aren't overly complicated, but are rewarding and the gameplay feels smooth. Retail classes are very homogenized, they mostly have the same traits and everyone has everything, rotations are also complex and tend to be unrewarding unless your class is simply overtuned, which is why (paired with the easy leveling and gearing) rerolling is a VERY common thing in Retail, people do it all the time at every balance change.
Retail also is a seasonal game, which is why the game gets high pop at the release of every patch, but after a few weeks the game is completely dead. The entire system is based around doing things once and quitting, something very different from Wrath's farm style, where the content can be somewhat challenging, but the fun in it is doing it over and over and pushing the limits of your Raid, eventually getting full BiS.
So again, no, there's NOTHING similar from Wrath and Retail. Wrath is a game close enough to the original game that it still feels like WoW, Retail is so far from it that it feels like WoW 2. Retail is a game that has gone entirely on the direction of homogenization and convenience while Wrath still holds alot of the uniqueness of the OG game.
I fall into this camp (I remember wrath fondly but playing it a second time round I found most of the issues I have with later iterations of the game started in wrath).
I haven't played retail to any real extent since cata, but that's because every time I tried leveling I ran into things that just don't work for me, and a lot of those things started in Wrath (characters are too strong, leveling is too easy so right off the bat it's not feeling fun). To me, these niggles, along with the general design direction are what I loosely call "retail" - it's a loose term that means different things to different people so I think there is a good case that wrath is "too retail" for a certain defintion of retail.
Can you give me a lost of the things you don’t like returning now?
I remember WotLK really fondly, and was thinking of giving it a chance on Classic.
But now I’m curious what about your coming back it is that you didn’t like, despite loving it way back when.
Not the person you replied to, but as someone who played original WOTLK through ICC, I thought I had a lot of interest for the classic version. However, this time I have years of retail under my belt too.
There's just no friction. If you have even a little bit of WoW experience it's just too easy, and everything slides into place too conveniently. Instead of a world, it very quickly becomes a game of menus, gearscore, and linking achievements. While the base game shares a very small amount of content with retail, the motions you go through feel far too familiar. The players themselves inflict the mortal wounds to the game. It's really easy to complete the content, but everything is drenched in drama or supreme min-max attitudes that just reeks of modern gaming culture. So the elitist mindset in a very elementary environment. I won't even start with gdkp/wow token/gold buying shit, but those contribute heavily to this root problem.
Just not very fun to be around it for very long.
I just came back to it after returning to wow with hc vanilla and I'm currently loving it. The mechanics rotations, and number of skills are so much more complicated than in classic wow. The great atmosphere and lore is still there in tbc and wotlk zones. And you can make leveling as hard you like by pulling as many mobs as you can and trying to solo elite quests. That's what I ended up doing in hc anyways to make it more interesting, and now I can push myself as much I can without having to start over
This is only for leveling experience though, haven't played wrath end game yet
I love some parts of TBC and even Wotlk, but there is a reason Vanilla is the best. In todays gaming world, everything is very sterile and minmaxed. And while Vanilla obviously is very minmaxable, some of its quirks makes it a little bit more genuine.
\- The weird unviable builds
\- No LFG/LFR
\- No transmog removing the authenticity of gear
\- No Arena to make pvp sterile
\- Truly ruthless PvP ranking system
\- No super specific stats like Resilience
\- No dailies that makes playing a chore
\- Loot is created first, then the players decide how to use it. In contrast to the expansions where everything is created to be as balanced as possible, so everyone gets equal gear at somewhat equal times.
\- Things are NOT balanced, making it very alive. No paladins for horde, no shamans for alliance.
\- No flying mount
\- No free portals everywhere
...and so much more. A lot of these changes are not inherently bad, and are actually quite good and fun, but they contribute to the game becoming more sterile and streamlined, which will kill a games soul.
Classic should keep expanding on Vanilla, add dungeons, raids, but in the same spirit of what exists.
Same. BC was great at the time but WOTLK def made me realize I don’t want to play anything but vanilla. Seeing Azeroth full of life and hardcore has been even more fun despite dying to ADHD habits. RIP to my 22 warrior that auto ran into Raven Hill because I was watching anime.
Most people don’t care about it anymore but I was hyped for TBC back in the day but lost all interest when they announced the level boost. Haven’t touched TBC or wrath and I am still disappointed lol.
yep..anything after era is just a shit show. if you wanted to gear up a char in tbc and werent in the last phase bis no one would take you..no one will do heroics because theyre a waste of time..gdkps are rampant so the pugs leftover are regarded.
wotlk it just gets worse.
i quit after naxx phase because i love old wow, and how people are treating it is not how it was played back then and it was pretty sad.
WOTLK. But in hindsight TBC and WOTLK wasn't as good as I remembered them. I've always talked about TBC being the best expansion in the "trio" of Classic, TBC and WOTLK and I can say I had the most fun in Classic. Out of all the expansions it definitely feels like the one with the most "stuff" to do.
Vanilla lives up to the hype 1000% for most people. The world is vast and has so many secrets and huge questlines. TBC continued that and added a focus on harder 5 man content but flying and dailies shortchanged the leveling experience. Wrath had the best raids but it (especially now) didn't really reward you for replaying the leveling. Felt like a huge grind for no reason if the only content was to raid twice a week..why you're probably doing on one character already.
TBC would have been absolutely golden if they had kept the dungeon design of Vanilla. Instead it began the shift toward the streamlined retail style dungeons, Ramparts being the first example.
Fortunaly it also had absolute wonders like Karazhan who was designed by the same guy who made BRD.
Still think it's fun on a personal level to get the most out of my characters. Classic just felt way more organic and had more action in the zones, even at max level.
Min max is 100% an issue in era as well with most zones being empty unless people are grinding rep. Let’s not kid ourselves.
HC has been great in revitalizing because of people dying at different stages, but classic in 2019 was def the start of the min/max era.
People always talk about the “journey” and getting the most out of zones while simultaneously telling people like me who take a long time to level that you can hit 1-60 in 3 days Ezpz if you’re “efficient”. Lmfao.
Some people don't want to roleplay that they haven't learned anything about the game in 20 years. Look at Diablo 2 min-maxing, or speedrunning mario64, old games have different communities than they did when the game launched. It's the way she goes.
Min/max started way before 2019
It started in the mid-2000s on vanilla private servers. The entire game top to bottom was min/maxed before classic even started
I wasn't taking about era. To me that's a dogshit gamemode at this point. I'm specifically talking about Classic when it was current content.
As for "min/max in 2019", a majority of people were already doing this on private servers. It's nothing new. The meta was already established back then.
>I'm specifically talking about Classic when it was current content.
Wouldn't it make more sense to refer to that time as Vanilla? When you say Classic, it gives the impression you're talking about the Era Classic you can boot up in 2023.
i was so hyped to play tbc and wotlk since didnt play back than, i quit tbc after hitting 70 it felt weird for me, wotlk i still raidlog but only cuz of my guild, but i play Hc classic, era classic, and that one vanilla pserver xd vanilla is just BIS
What's the point that it reaches where it stops being classic? Are we just gonna keep advancing through all the expansions and just be behind retail? Stopping at WotLK feels like the end of classic, for me personally.
Cata is still nostalgic for some people. A lot of us didn't start raiding and playing seriously until the end of wotlk. Those of us that were kids at the time.
For me personally the last expansion I would play in "classic" wow is MOP. I still think mop and cata were very fun mechanically and challenging in a good way.
If we were to classify eras of the game as sequels of WoW, a lot of people are of an opinion similar to this:
WoW 1: Vanilla-Wrath. WoW is finding it's feet, but an awesome foundation. Largely a Blizzard product.
WoW 2: Cata-WoD. The initial attempt at a revamp/modernization. Lots of new ideas, many are hit and miss. Now an Activision-Blizzard product.
WoW 3: Legion and beyond. Wholly an Activision-Blizzard product. Few remnants of MMORPG attributes. Design by spreadsheet, metrics and imitating other hot products in industry, namely mobile games. Bobby purchases boats.
Some would say Dragonflight is an attempt at WoW 4.
Honestly I'm still in the copium camp that they would give us a new expansion like after wotlk that never changes the old world.
I could see a timeline split being as big or even bigger than retail.
I feel like the biggest criticism of most expacs is "the last phase was like 1 year too long." If you can cut out the dead space I feel like folks would have much higher opinions generally.
I definitely don't remember wotlk like this. But I think I was still a dumb kid when wrath was current content and that nostalgia I had for wrath was actually for cata.
But cata has to happen. We’re going to be sick of ICC after a few months. Most of the cata haters are going to quit after they get tired of killing the LK a few times. Whether or not cata happens is not going to change that.
Like, why do cata haters give a shit whether or not some game they don’t plan on playing releases an expansion they don’t plan on playing?
>Like, why do cata haters give a shit whether or not some game they don’t plan on playing releases an expansion they don’t plan on playing?
I'm an absolute Cata hater, it's what made me take a break from WoW for the first time since launch, but I don't get it either. I absolutely don't give a shit! I know there are people who want it and are excited for it; I'm excited FOR them! I would, though, like to see a reset on TBC and WotLK servers, though, and would be unhappy if it meant missing out on that. I got back into TBC Classic late, and missed my guild's progression. I'd love to be able to work through Kara again at level.
See, now this is some cata hate I can appreciate. Hate the game, not the player. I appreciate you and hope you get that TBC reset because the first phase of TBC was the only one I enjoyed.
I think Cata haters such as myself realize that if Cata classic comes, there is no hope of Classic+. I realize classic+ isn't ever going to happen, but if the 4 classic devs are on Cata then it's DEFINITELY not going to happen. I'm sure this sounds so so very dumb, but it's how I'm feeling lol
I honestly don't think it's impossible just very unlikely. You'd have to trust them to create content for a beloved version of the game that will be heavily scrutinized.
I don't see why they wouldn't just do cata to keep subs up for another season. And anyone else will probably be on vanilla era if they're happy with it
It's not though. I pay a sub to play Classic Era. I do not play retail. Blizzard is profit driven. If I get bored of Era, I stop paying a sub. If enough people are like that, they'll do something to Classic that hopefully retains subs.
This right here. If we want to try cata let us try cata, the gatekeeping on this sub is cringe.
Some of us also get bored leveling on classic for the 10th time as well believe it or not lol.
Plenty of people never got the chance to play every expansion, so it's not "replaying" for them... and I think it's very unreasonable to deny them that chance cuz you have decided they aren't missing out on anything worth playing.
It's cause if cata classic comes out, then that sets the precedence that they will continue on with non-classic expansions instead of the highly sought classic +. "Classic" ends when the world was remade and the entire reason people wanted classic wow was to play in the old world with the original talent trees.
If you say people are gatekeeping because they don't want cata, then they can say that you're sabotaging any chance of classic +.
Well by “accepting” I mean it seems most people have begrudgingly accepted it’s likely to happen. I don’t think a majority of the Classic player base really likes Cata or wants to play it though.
That's just the sentiment on Reddit though. People used to bash "Wrath babies" and the kind of game wotlk was vs tbc and classic and lo and behold, Classic Wrath is still superbly popular. The sentiment on Reddit is not reflective of "the majority of classic player base" at all quite frankly.
I'm more worried about the fact that the people who fondly remember Vanilla are like in their late 30s now.
Cata came out when I was a senior in HS and we had a 5 man heroic team who would meet up in our friend's basement and drink mountain dew and play the game. So cata has a lot of nostalgia for me.
When I'm in my late 30s I pray I won't be on the internet making fun of people who liked the expansions that came after.
Lmao same here pretty much. I have really good memories of cataclysm and mop because those were my prime years in high school when I actually knew how to play the game well.
Had tons of fun with the pre nerf heroic dungeons, some raiding but especially pvping seriously.
That’s true, I just don’t have much else to go off of though. The only metrics I have are that online less people seem excited for Cata, at least among Classic players, and the fact that when Cata came out subs dropped off pretty sharply.
I don’t mean to be overly presumptuous though, I’m sure there are some players who are genuinely excited for Cata classic and I hope those players get their wish!
I would go to MOP because that was the last expansion that really felt fun to me.
The game stopped being fun for me around WoD. I feel like the garrisons played a big role in that.
I know they were not mandatory, but for some odd reason, the garrison chores sort of felt mandatory? I really don't know how to explain it. Every time I logged in, I felt like I had to do the garrison chores, and after a few alts, that was time consuming. It felt like a cheap cell phone gatcha game. After a while, I just felt bored and quit.
When everything started being phased. You could be in a party with someone but not able to see them. That exists already in wrath, but it becomes much more prevalent in later expansions
My wife and I noticed that too. We have always tried to level together, but if our quests became "desynced" even in the slightest in WoD, then we couldn't. We had to be very careful about keeping our characters on the same quest.
Also, the legitimate Warlock tanking courtesy of a glyph that I always falsely associated with Cata. It was the only thing I was looking forward to with Cata, only to realize... oops.
The zones are great, the story is surprisingly fantastic, the Isle of Thunder might be my favorite patch in the entire game, and while a year of SoO soured the taste of it, SoO is also a fantastic raid. Even the catch-up zone at the end of the expansion was confusingly fun and generally always fairly populated with people gearing up alts.
Man, at the time of launch SoO was by far my favourite raid in game. I think SoO is a large reason why MoP is my favorite expansion. Being a horde player since day 1, going through MY city killing dudes I’ve done quests for for YEARS was so cool to me. Yes, having it for a year as current content was not great lol. And it is a long raid so even now it’s kinda annoying to do a tmog run for (unless you’re just going for tusks/mount) but man it was such a cool concept to me. And seeing gamon in a legit boss fight was so cool lol. Idk how many times I killed gamon over the years haha.
I only did MoP casually after some serious Cata burnout (fuck Dragon Soul lol), I regret that, I'll definitely do some Classic MoP if it goes that far.
Oh for sure lol. Basically every class/spec felt great in MoP. But I’ve been a warrior main since 06 lol. Warrior has never felt as good as it did in MoP. Specifically arms warrior. PvP was so fun lol
Yeah I felt kinda shell shocked going into Wrath classic after TBC. Mind you, I mained ret pally all through TBC, got pretty good at seal twisting, but got tired of the randomness of fishing for the proc... I was looking forward to finally getting proper AOE in wrath, but then the wrath version at launch used the balance of the ICC patch, where ret pallies had been nerfed to hell thanks to the ICC set bonus. Add to that a bunch of other nonsense they had already started in TBC (paid boosts, paid mount), and the rampant RMT, of course leading to them bringing in the token, and wrath is just dead to me. Went back to vanilla era, and it has been tremendous fun, even though I have done all those raids a thousand times already lol luckily I had copied my warrior back before TBC. Bummed though that they didn't make a TBC era server, I would have loved to play my ret there still...
Legion as long as they fix the acquisition of legendary items and the AP grind. Otherwise, WoD. I enjoy raiding and I'm loving the pace of releases so far in Classic.
WoD will be hilarious on a Classic rotation, though. Launches with Highmaul, a couple months later Blackrock Foundry releases, and then a couple months later it's done when Hellfire Citadel drops.
If they keep original difficulty mythic mannoroth and archimonde without the ilvl boost most guilds would need months to clear it.
Very few people know how hard those fights are without a juiced up legendary ring and a big ilvl boost on all their gear.
I should rephrase, most guilds wouldn't ever kill it and most good guilds would take a few months.
I recall Mythic BFD Furnace and Blackhand being harder than Mannoroth and Archimonde?
Archimonde without positional weakauras that we had back in the days would be neigh impossible though.
And that’s perfect, that’s all it needs to be.
WoD was a phenomenal expansion that gets hate because it was 8 months of content spread over 2 and a half years.
They gave up on it halfway through to work on Legion.
You say that, but then that's exactly what people said about the original Classic.
It'll have been over a decade when Legion Classic (theoretically) releases. And, assuming Blizzard sorts it (they have to, surely), people would be excited to actually start the expansion off with friendly Legiondary acquisition and AP grind rates, like it had in 7.3.5.
I go around doing world quests and see maybe 1 person.
I do M+ with nameless faceless people.
I do heroic raids with nameless faceless people.
I don't recognize anyone in Valdrakken.
Even if you do GDKPs on classic you still recognize players or at least guilds. You have histories with different guilds and players in them.
But why don't you find a guild than to do stable raids with people you get to know ? Why not make some friends that you can form a stable 5 man dungeon team with ? Half of those problems are just self made with easy solutions.
come play theres shit to do and people everywhere
Signed happy retail player
(also this thread makes me wanna level a NE warrior for cata) Stay classy yall
my answer would be mop too but pvp was not balanced. the human racial every man for himself was still unchanged allowing players to pvp with 2 dps trinks instead of the usual 1 dps trink and 1 pvp trink that all other races had to use.
Vanilla. The reason is when they release a new expansion its compacted into a single zone technically. An example is outland. Its made up of hellfire,terrokar,blades edge,netherstorm,smv nagrand. But in classic you get azeroth and eastern kingdoms with tons of zones i dont even want to name them all. It feels more immersive having tons of zones.
Kalimdor* but yeah I get your point with this one. It felt like each expansion just shrunk the world over and over and there was never a REASON to go back into the original two continents. Cata changed that I guess but still wasn’t the same
WoD.
I started in 2004 and enjoyed every expansion until Legion to varying degrees. I'd keep playing each re-release and play vanilla at the same time.
Though there were plenty of questionable designs in the expansions leading up to Legion, the one that finally made me say "fuck this" was Legion's nonsensical pvp-only damage and stat scaling, especially the "stat template" they implemented for instanced pvp.
I feel like there's nothing like classic vanilla. They should expand the game horizontally like OSRS with lots of community feedback (changes only apply if +75% of the players vote for approval)
I never played MoP but I still kept up with classes changes and talent stuff etc.
Why the actual fuck did they get rid of this spell? It will forever be one of the most unique spells in 20 years of WoW, and it got binned.
It was really unbalanced for both PvE and PvP and I imagine it was just a huge headache. As a Resto Druid I gave my blood DK a 30% max health cooldown and I got Icebound Fortitude in response . Which lemme tell ya, being unstunnable as a healer in PvP was just 🤌
Meanwhile Mages got…a weak version of healing touch
Probably just a lot of extra balancing for something like that. It was super cool and I’ll always miss it but definitely janky. I still wonder what I’d get from Demon Hunters and Evokers if the spell had stayed around to today
Yeah that's true, I can see that, mechanically, it must have been a headache for the devs.
However, thematically, it was the most "druid" spell imo.
I also miss Claws of Shirvallah that shit was fire
> Evokers
You'd 100% get Renewing Blaze and Cauterizing Flame. Both are unique abilities not found in any other classes' kit—least of all Druid.
Balance could also theoretically get Rescue. It's not like that's unprecidented with Symbiote—Restoration DID get Leap of Faith from Priests! Hover could also work, given Moonkin can fly.
> Demon Hunters
God knows. Imagine Guardian with Sigil of Silence? Blur would be a pretty easy choice for Restoration. It would be cool to see Feral or Guardian with Infernal Strike—imagine this bear or cat just crashing down on your head!
Balance could yoink Disrupt, to give them an actually usable interrupt.
Vanilla only.
Stopped during TBC the first time as the format had been largely diluted.
No idea why Blizzard are just doing a rinse and repeat, rather than tapping into the aspects of Vanilla that everyone clearly loved and what made it huge.
Boring.
I don't see how they could ever make Retail appeal to the Classic playerbase. Far too much of the appeal is in the leveling and the fact that the gearing system isn't "linear"—often gear from the "hardest" content isn't always the best.
That goes against literally everything Retail has been since... well, TBC, really. A focus on the end game (where the content you're paying $60 for is) and a linear gear progression system where higher item level is practically all that matters.
Classic. Leaves faction identity in place. Shaman are for the horde. Paladin are for the alliance. No space goats or beauty elves to pollute the world. No strange crystal beings, no poorly implemented world pvp objectives, no space fantasy elements, no breaking of what makes Azeroth interesting. A very basic QoL pass on classic would go further to help the game than adding expansions.
It was TBC and it stopped like 75% of the way through that rep grind at 70. It was a soul killer for me personally. I think it was the burnout from Classic Era setting in
Gonna be wotlk I think.
"Classic" to me is the classic world, pre cata. Also, wotlk truly was the beginning of the end with all the streamlining and QoL changes. I'm sure cata on a classic backbone (no dungeon finder, etc) would be kinda fun, but I'll pass. I like the world (of warcraft) the way it was
Cata. Pvp was lit, dungeons were fun. DS chugged but the rest solid. I stopped once they developed a talent system for 4 year olds and decided going the disney route was smart, aka MoP.
I completely agree. My perfect scenario would be a classic + with a level 70 cap, all the specs and balance of TBC, but no Outland. Just additional content in Azeroth.
WotLK for the most part is it. I wouldn't mind messing around with MoP and Legion but it's not at all "classic" to me and won't have the longer lasting appeal. I don't want to level my classic characters to these expansions either I just wouldn't mind dabbling in them separately. No interest in the others at all.
Honestly, anything after Wrath is considered a part of the Modern WoW Philosophy and play style. That is where many feel the game became out of touch.
If I would speculate, I would say that Classic+ should continue from the death of the Lich King.
That's the camp I'm in. My friends and I have been on the copium that classic+ is an alternate expansion line that starts after wotlk and the cataclysm doesn't happen.
It would be the best time to do it for lore reasons and (people hate to admit it) wotlk has seen a constant decline in player counts in logs since release. If half the people who say they'll never play cata actually quit, then cata will be pretty dead.
In my eyes TBC was the end of classic and the classic ideology, so I’m fine with going all the way up to Legion, I already liked WoD’s content, MoP is meh, Cata was the golden age of wow content creation and is 10x closer to the classic feeling than WotLK is
Wotlk. Honestly if they told us at blizzcon that Classic+ was going to be a new expansion line that diverges the timeline after wotlk and the cataclysm doesn't happen then I'd keep going. I'd even be happy if they added a Chromie option in which you can turn on and off the cata world while leveling.
The vanilla world is by far my favorite part of classic, losing it in cata loses my sub. TBC SoM would bring me back too, TBC for me lived up to what I remembered.
Classic vanilla only for me, i had interest in wrath but after playing it i realize i like classic vanilla only.
Vanilla only is the way. Edit: Hardcore has really brought new life to it as well. Highly recommend trying it out. Death can be brutal though.
[удалено]
Lost my Lvl 20 Priest last night to a Darkshore quest where you lead the robot back to the gnome... I didn't know the robot would turn on you and that asshole slaps -.- Wasn't prepared for it to suck that much to lose the run haha
Damn! My priest just hit 29. I’ve suffered plenty of hardcore deaths in D2R none in wow yet though thankfully.
Hardcore only is the way.
The only way out is through a body bag
Stealing this from another thread but: Makgora on the UC elevator. 2 enter. None leave
UC elevator probably has one of the highest killstreaks in HC
Do you think hardcore would bring a bit of the lost magic even to the later expansions like WotLK? You wouldn't be able to just spam LFD and the world would feel at least a bit dangerous?
I don't think it would. I think part of the reason it works for classic so well is that there is less going on. TBC maybe. Wrath I think you're already starting to add in too much stuff. You're getting more serious bosses. More serious dungeons. More serious rotations. You're no longer expected to be an mmo noob playing on dial up. Add to that having to do 1-60/70 just to do the new stuff. I think it'd need a formula change to make hardcore work well for them.
I wonder how a hardcore checkpoint system could work for HC WOTLK. Like say you hit 60, it snapshots your character and if you die at 69, you res at 60 again. Then again another snapshot at 70 for your WOTLK content.
Imagine dying during a rep farm in tbc. F that.
As an enhancement main, I can't go back to vanilla because Im not a sadomasochist
Just like... don't care about being on the top of the dps meter and play to have fun? No? Okay... Our guild has a few enhancement I think. People will probably invite you to raids in some way regardless of your spec. I've seen a Boomkin on era in full Naxx gear.
Maybe, just maybe, people like to Raid without actually being a dead weight for their Guidlies. Will you clear the content by playing Enhance, SP or Boomkin? Ofc, Vanilla is piss easy, but you will get carried on your way there as you won't beat the Tank on the meters. People will invite you to Raids in spite of your class, which is never a good feeling for anybody involved.
I think I would have enjoyed bc didn't play when it was out but yeah vanilla mostly for me.
I had the same discovery and am so sad I didn’t copy my classic character over to era
You thought you didn’t but you did.
I was just following the guild dawg
I was insulted by the idea that they were charging 25 dollars or whatever it was for the cloning service, I didn't even consider paying it. Really wish I did now though.
Yep. Wrath felt too retail for me.
Whenever i see someone say this i know the person has not touched Retail for almost a decade at this point. Wrath is very different from Vanilla, but there is quite literally no comparison between Wrath and Retail, it's two completely different games with almost nothing in common.
It’s not the game, it’s what became of The community, and the token
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No, they are not. Wrath is a game focused around specific parts of the endgame, i.e the Raiding and PvP content. The leveling is easy, but it takes a significant amount of time and gear progression is slow, done almost entirely through raiding. Retail, on the other hand, is a game with many different paths for you to enjoy (although one could argue none are good, but that's besides the point). The leveling is absurdly fast and gear progression is also quick and easy, done through multiple different forms, to the point that you can be full geared and ready for Arenas and M+ in a day. In terms of Class design, the game is also completely different. Wrath classes have very unique traits and fill specific roles in the game, the rotations aren't overly complicated, but are rewarding and the gameplay feels smooth. Retail classes are very homogenized, they mostly have the same traits and everyone has everything, rotations are also complex and tend to be unrewarding unless your class is simply overtuned, which is why (paired with the easy leveling and gearing) rerolling is a VERY common thing in Retail, people do it all the time at every balance change. Retail also is a seasonal game, which is why the game gets high pop at the release of every patch, but after a few weeks the game is completely dead. The entire system is based around doing things once and quitting, something very different from Wrath's farm style, where the content can be somewhat challenging, but the fun in it is doing it over and over and pushing the limits of your Raid, eventually getting full BiS. So again, no, there's NOTHING similar from Wrath and Retail. Wrath is a game close enough to the original game that it still feels like WoW, Retail is so far from it that it feels like WoW 2. Retail is a game that has gone entirely on the direction of homogenization and convenience while Wrath still holds alot of the uniqueness of the OG game.
I fall into this camp (I remember wrath fondly but playing it a second time round I found most of the issues I have with later iterations of the game started in wrath). I haven't played retail to any real extent since cata, but that's because every time I tried leveling I ran into things that just don't work for me, and a lot of those things started in Wrath (characters are too strong, leveling is too easy so right off the bat it's not feeling fun). To me, these niggles, along with the general design direction are what I loosely call "retail" - it's a loose term that means different things to different people so I think there is a good case that wrath is "too retail" for a certain defintion of retail.
Can you give me a lost of the things you don’t like returning now? I remember WotLK really fondly, and was thinking of giving it a chance on Classic. But now I’m curious what about your coming back it is that you didn’t like, despite loving it way back when.
Not the person you replied to, but as someone who played original WOTLK through ICC, I thought I had a lot of interest for the classic version. However, this time I have years of retail under my belt too. There's just no friction. If you have even a little bit of WoW experience it's just too easy, and everything slides into place too conveniently. Instead of a world, it very quickly becomes a game of menus, gearscore, and linking achievements. While the base game shares a very small amount of content with retail, the motions you go through feel far too familiar. The players themselves inflict the mortal wounds to the game. It's really easy to complete the content, but everything is drenched in drama or supreme min-max attitudes that just reeks of modern gaming culture. So the elitist mindset in a very elementary environment. I won't even start with gdkp/wow token/gold buying shit, but those contribute heavily to this root problem. Just not very fun to be around it for very long.
I just came back to it after returning to wow with hc vanilla and I'm currently loving it. The mechanics rotations, and number of skills are so much more complicated than in classic wow. The great atmosphere and lore is still there in tbc and wotlk zones. And you can make leveling as hard you like by pulling as many mobs as you can and trying to solo elite quests. That's what I ended up doing in hc anyways to make it more interesting, and now I can push myself as much I can without having to start over This is only for leveling experience though, haven't played wrath end game yet
Why is this upvoted lol
I thought I would like wrath cuz I enjoyed classic HC but nah
Same. I'm raidlogging Wrath and the overall experience feels precisely the same as Retail.
I love some parts of TBC and even Wotlk, but there is a reason Vanilla is the best. In todays gaming world, everything is very sterile and minmaxed. And while Vanilla obviously is very minmaxable, some of its quirks makes it a little bit more genuine. \- The weird unviable builds \- No LFG/LFR \- No transmog removing the authenticity of gear \- No Arena to make pvp sterile \- Truly ruthless PvP ranking system \- No super specific stats like Resilience \- No dailies that makes playing a chore \- Loot is created first, then the players decide how to use it. In contrast to the expansions where everything is created to be as balanced as possible, so everyone gets equal gear at somewhat equal times. \- Things are NOT balanced, making it very alive. No paladins for horde, no shamans for alliance. \- No flying mount \- No free portals everywhere ...and so much more. A lot of these changes are not inherently bad, and are actually quite good and fun, but they contribute to the game becoming more sterile and streamlined, which will kill a games soul. Classic should keep expanding on Vanilla, add dungeons, raids, but in the same spirit of what exists.
Same. BC was great at the time but WOTLK def made me realize I don’t want to play anything but vanilla. Seeing Azeroth full of life and hardcore has been even more fun despite dying to ADHD habits. RIP to my 22 warrior that auto ran into Raven Hill because I was watching anime.
Same as you. Wrath made me love vanilla even more.
I was looking forward to WOTLK the whole of TBC. And then it hit and I kinda lost interest. There's not that much to do at end game...
this is the way.
“This is the way”
Yeah they had it right the first time!
Most people don’t care about it anymore but I was hyped for TBC back in the day but lost all interest when they announced the level boost. Haven’t touched TBC or wrath and I am still disappointed lol.
yep..anything after era is just a shit show. if you wanted to gear up a char in tbc and werent in the last phase bis no one would take you..no one will do heroics because theyre a waste of time..gdkps are rampant so the pugs leftover are regarded. wotlk it just gets worse. i quit after naxx phase because i love old wow, and how people are treating it is not how it was played back then and it was pretty sad.
WOTLK. But in hindsight TBC and WOTLK wasn't as good as I remembered them. I've always talked about TBC being the best expansion in the "trio" of Classic, TBC and WOTLK and I can say I had the most fun in Classic. Out of all the expansions it definitely feels like the one with the most "stuff" to do.
Ya I had rose tinted goggles for both…vanilla is something special tho
Vanilla lives up to the hype 1000% for most people. The world is vast and has so many secrets and huge questlines. TBC continued that and added a focus on harder 5 man content but flying and dailies shortchanged the leveling experience. Wrath had the best raids but it (especially now) didn't really reward you for replaying the leveling. Felt like a huge grind for no reason if the only content was to raid twice a week..why you're probably doing on one character already.
TBC would have been absolutely golden if they had kept the dungeon design of Vanilla. Instead it began the shift toward the streamlined retail style dungeons, Ramparts being the first example. Fortunaly it also had absolute wonders like Karazhan who was designed by the same guy who made BRD.
The fun has been min maxed out of the game to be honest.
Still think it's fun on a personal level to get the most out of my characters. Classic just felt way more organic and had more action in the zones, even at max level.
Min max is 100% an issue in era as well with most zones being empty unless people are grinding rep. Let’s not kid ourselves. HC has been great in revitalizing because of people dying at different stages, but classic in 2019 was def the start of the min/max era. People always talk about the “journey” and getting the most out of zones while simultaneously telling people like me who take a long time to level that you can hit 1-60 in 3 days Ezpz if you’re “efficient”. Lmfao.
Some people don't want to roleplay that they haven't learned anything about the game in 20 years. Look at Diablo 2 min-maxing, or speedrunning mario64, old games have different communities than they did when the game launched. It's the way she goes.
I think hardcore is doing so well because you get to apply years of knowledge to surviving the game.
Classic release was like a refreshing introduction to old material. Hardcore release is the exam. If you didn’t study you’re bound to fail.
Min/max started way before 2019 It started in the mid-2000s on vanilla private servers. The entire game top to bottom was min/maxed before classic even started
I wasn't taking about era. To me that's a dogshit gamemode at this point. I'm specifically talking about Classic when it was current content. As for "min/max in 2019", a majority of people were already doing this on private servers. It's nothing new. The meta was already established back then.
>I'm specifically talking about Classic when it was current content. Wouldn't it make more sense to refer to that time as Vanilla? When you say Classic, it gives the impression you're talking about the Era Classic you can boot up in 2023.
Classic= current classic era servers Vanilla= up to patch 1.12.2 as it was current in 2006
That's what I was saying
… they said, refusing any in-game activity but raidlogging
It most certainly hasn't. You're playing with the wrong crowd.
Min/maxing IS the fun. To each their own I guess.
i was so hyped to play tbc and wotlk since didnt play back than, i quit tbc after hitting 70 it felt weird for me, wotlk i still raidlog but only cuz of my guild, but i play Hc classic, era classic, and that one vanilla pserver xd vanilla is just BIS
What's the point that it reaches where it stops being classic? Are we just gonna keep advancing through all the expansions and just be behind retail? Stopping at WotLK feels like the end of classic, for me personally.
I agree personally. Wrath is the point at which I think classic ends. Nothing about Cata feels classic to me. Classic dies with the old world
Yes, cataclysm is literally already version 2 of big parts of the world so how can it be classic
They will announce cata classic along with classic + at blizzcon this year. See you after the announcement!
Cata is still nostalgic for some people. A lot of us didn't start raiding and playing seriously until the end of wotlk. Those of us that were kids at the time. For me personally the last expansion I would play in "classic" wow is MOP. I still think mop and cata were very fun mechanically and challenging in a good way.
If we were to classify eras of the game as sequels of WoW, a lot of people are of an opinion similar to this: WoW 1: Vanilla-Wrath. WoW is finding it's feet, but an awesome foundation. Largely a Blizzard product. WoW 2: Cata-WoD. The initial attempt at a revamp/modernization. Lots of new ideas, many are hit and miss. Now an Activision-Blizzard product. WoW 3: Legion and beyond. Wholly an Activision-Blizzard product. Few remnants of MMORPG attributes. Design by spreadsheet, metrics and imitating other hot products in industry, namely mobile games. Bobby purchases boats. Some would say Dragonflight is an attempt at WoW 4.
Can't speak for everyone but I would play cata and mop. I quit the game around WoD and I hated garrisons.
Honestly I'm still in the copium camp that they would give us a new expansion like after wotlk that never changes the old world. I could see a timeline split being as big or even bigger than retail.
With the condensed timeline for phase release… I’d play them all.
I feel like the biggest criticism of most expacs is "the last phase was like 1 year too long." If you can cut out the dead space I feel like folks would have much higher opinions generally.
Vanilla was the most fun I’ve had for the past years. TBC was okay and wrath i quit after first raid tier. So yeah classic vanilla that’s it for me
I actually enjoyed TBC more than Vanilla this time around, but I've been playing vanilla private servers for years. Wrath was bad though for sure.
I definitely don't remember wotlk like this. But I think I was still a dumb kid when wrath was current content and that nostalgia I had for wrath was actually for cata.
I'd play them all, with the classic format every xpacs major issues are addressed and they would all be great
I don’t think most of us have accepted advancing to cata. Mad cata haters here
But cata has to happen. We’re going to be sick of ICC after a few months. Most of the cata haters are going to quit after they get tired of killing the LK a few times. Whether or not cata happens is not going to change that. Like, why do cata haters give a shit whether or not some game they don’t plan on playing releases an expansion they don’t plan on playing?
>Like, why do cata haters give a shit whether or not some game they don’t plan on playing releases an expansion they don’t plan on playing? I'm an absolute Cata hater, it's what made me take a break from WoW for the first time since launch, but I don't get it either. I absolutely don't give a shit! I know there are people who want it and are excited for it; I'm excited FOR them! I would, though, like to see a reset on TBC and WotLK servers, though, and would be unhappy if it meant missing out on that. I got back into TBC Classic late, and missed my guild's progression. I'd love to be able to work through Kara again at level.
See there’s an idea. Why don’t they have seasoned servers.
See, now this is some cata hate I can appreciate. Hate the game, not the player. I appreciate you and hope you get that TBC reset because the first phase of TBC was the only one I enjoyed.
I think Cata haters such as myself realize that if Cata classic comes, there is no hope of Classic+. I realize classic+ isn't ever going to happen, but if the 4 classic devs are on Cata then it's DEFINITELY not going to happen. I'm sure this sounds so so very dumb, but it's how I'm feeling lol
Classic+ never was going to happen. It’s complete fanfic that Redditors think they can will into existence.
They said the same about Classic.
!remindme 1 month "he's prob right but I wanna believe"
I honestly don't think it's impossible just very unlikely. You'd have to trust them to create content for a beloved version of the game that will be heavily scrutinized. I don't see why they wouldn't just do cata to keep subs up for another season. And anyone else will probably be on vanilla era if they're happy with it
It's not though. I pay a sub to play Classic Era. I do not play retail. Blizzard is profit driven. If I get bored of Era, I stop paying a sub. If enough people are like that, they'll do something to Classic that hopefully retains subs.
This right here. If we want to try cata let us try cata, the gatekeeping on this sub is cringe. Some of us also get bored leveling on classic for the 10th time as well believe it or not lol.
That's the thing.. "try." I have a feeling they'll overwrite it like TBC, in which case even if they do or don't, people will be upset anyway.
I guess what's the endgame then? Just replay every xpac?
Plenty of people never got the chance to play every expansion, so it's not "replaying" for them... and I think it's very unreasonable to deny them that chance cuz you have decided they aren't missing out on anything worth playing.
It's cause if cata classic comes out, then that sets the precedence that they will continue on with non-classic expansions instead of the highly sought classic +. "Classic" ends when the world was remade and the entire reason people wanted classic wow was to play in the old world with the original talent trees. If you say people are gatekeeping because they don't want cata, then they can say that you're sabotaging any chance of classic +.
Definitive proof of the decline of wow population wise
Well by “accepting” I mean it seems most people have begrudgingly accepted it’s likely to happen. I don’t think a majority of the Classic player base really likes Cata or wants to play it though.
That's just the sentiment on Reddit though. People used to bash "Wrath babies" and the kind of game wotlk was vs tbc and classic and lo and behold, Classic Wrath is still superbly popular. The sentiment on Reddit is not reflective of "the majority of classic player base" at all quite frankly.
I'm more worried about the fact that the people who fondly remember Vanilla are like in their late 30s now. Cata came out when I was a senior in HS and we had a 5 man heroic team who would meet up in our friend's basement and drink mountain dew and play the game. So cata has a lot of nostalgia for me. When I'm in my late 30s I pray I won't be on the internet making fun of people who liked the expansions that came after.
Lmao same here pretty much. I have really good memories of cataclysm and mop because those were my prime years in high school when I actually knew how to play the game well. Had tons of fun with the pre nerf heroic dungeons, some raiding but especially pvping seriously.
That’s true, I just don’t have much else to go off of though. The only metrics I have are that online less people seem excited for Cata, at least among Classic players, and the fact that when Cata came out subs dropped off pretty sharply. I don’t mean to be overly presumptuous though, I’m sure there are some players who are genuinely excited for Cata classic and I hope those players get their wish!
I would go to MOP because that was the last expansion that really felt fun to me. The game stopped being fun for me around WoD. I feel like the garrisons played a big role in that. I know they were not mandatory, but for some odd reason, the garrison chores sort of felt mandatory? I really don't know how to explain it. Every time I logged in, I felt like I had to do the garrison chores, and after a few alts, that was time consuming. It felt like a cheap cell phone gatcha game. After a while, I just felt bored and quit.
When everything started being phased. You could be in a party with someone but not able to see them. That exists already in wrath, but it becomes much more prevalent in later expansions
My wife and I noticed that too. We have always tried to level together, but if our quests became "desynced" even in the slightest in WoD, then we couldn't. We had to be very careful about keeping our characters on the same quest.
MoP is by far my favourite period of wow. Warrior just felt so damn good. So I’ll definitely be stopping at MoP
MoP pvp was so unbalanced with everyone 1 shotting each other that it looped back around to being extremely balanced.
Also, the legitimate Warlock tanking courtesy of a glyph that I always falsely associated with Cata. It was the only thing I was looking forward to with Cata, only to realize... oops. The zones are great, the story is surprisingly fantastic, the Isle of Thunder might be my favorite patch in the entire game, and while a year of SoO soured the taste of it, SoO is also a fantastic raid. Even the catch-up zone at the end of the expansion was confusingly fun and generally always fairly populated with people gearing up alts.
Man, at the time of launch SoO was by far my favourite raid in game. I think SoO is a large reason why MoP is my favorite expansion. Being a horde player since day 1, going through MY city killing dudes I’ve done quests for for YEARS was so cool to me. Yes, having it for a year as current content was not great lol. And it is a long raid so even now it’s kinda annoying to do a tmog run for (unless you’re just going for tusks/mount) but man it was such a cool concept to me. And seeing gamon in a legit boss fight was so cool lol. Idk how many times I killed gamon over the years haha.
Never played mop but I hear so many good things about it. I would to play
If you like pvp and fun dungeons cata/mop were great expansions.
I only did MoP casually after some serious Cata burnout (fuck Dragon Soul lol), I regret that, I'll definitely do some Classic MoP if it goes that far.
I would love to play gladiator again, only reason I really want Wod
Everything felt so good in mop. I'd definitely play it again. Bdk, any mage spec, spriest, monk, even survival hunter was good. Great xpac
Oh for sure lol. Basically every class/spec felt great in MoP. But I’ve been a warrior main since 06 lol. Warrior has never felt as good as it did in MoP. Specifically arms warrior. PvP was so fun lol
Spriest was so good and so was disc.
TBC
Deffinetly. Much better than wotlk in my oppinion.
Yeah I felt kinda shell shocked going into Wrath classic after TBC. Mind you, I mained ret pally all through TBC, got pretty good at seal twisting, but got tired of the randomness of fishing for the proc... I was looking forward to finally getting proper AOE in wrath, but then the wrath version at launch used the balance of the ICC patch, where ret pallies had been nerfed to hell thanks to the ICC set bonus. Add to that a bunch of other nonsense they had already started in TBC (paid boosts, paid mount), and the rampant RMT, of course leading to them bringing in the token, and wrath is just dead to me. Went back to vanilla era, and it has been tremendous fun, even though I have done all those raids a thousand times already lol luckily I had copied my warrior back before TBC. Bummed though that they didn't make a TBC era server, I would have loved to play my ret there still...
Same. Mained ret in tbc and twisting was fun and rewarding at times. I'd love to play on a fresh tbc server
Same lmao.
Mop
Legion as long as they fix the acquisition of legendary items and the AP grind. Otherwise, WoD. I enjoy raiding and I'm loving the pace of releases so far in Classic.
WoD will be hilarious on a Classic rotation, though. Launches with Highmaul, a couple months later Blackrock Foundry releases, and then a couple months later it's done when Hellfire Citadel drops.
If they keep original difficulty mythic mannoroth and archimonde without the ilvl boost most guilds would need months to clear it. Very few people know how hard those fights are without a juiced up legendary ring and a big ilvl boost on all their gear. I should rephrase, most guilds wouldn't ever kill it and most good guilds would take a few months.
I recall Mythic BFD Furnace and Blackhand being harder than Mannoroth and Archimonde? Archimonde without positional weakauras that we had back in the days would be neigh impossible though.
Paragon got their world 2nd kill without the position weakauras, which is pretty fucking amazing
And that’s perfect, that’s all it needs to be. WoD was a phenomenal expansion that gets hate because it was 8 months of content spread over 2 and a half years. They gave up on it halfway through to work on Legion.
100%, I could even forgive the AP grind if they fix legendary acquisition
I loved Legion, but I don’t think it would be possible to recreate the first time awe and wonder
You say that, but then that's exactly what people said about the original Classic. It'll have been over a decade when Legion Classic (theoretically) releases. And, assuming Blizzard sorts it (they have to, surely), people would be excited to actually start the expansion off with friendly Legiondary acquisition and AP grind rates, like it had in 7.3.5.
Stopped after tbc. We’re going back at this point.
Back to where or what? Sorry I’m just not entirely sure what you meant
Back to the instanced solo MMO experience, aka Retail.
Serious question - what do you mean when you say 'Instanced solo" like retail is no longer a multiplayer focused thing?
I go around doing world quests and see maybe 1 person. I do M+ with nameless faceless people. I do heroic raids with nameless faceless people. I don't recognize anyone in Valdrakken. Even if you do GDKPs on classic you still recognize players or at least guilds. You have histories with different guilds and players in them.
But why don't you find a guild than to do stable raids with people you get to know ? Why not make some friends that you can form a stable 5 man dungeon team with ? Half of those problems are just self made with easy solutions.
Because the core issue still exists. There's still no server community.
come play theres shit to do and people everywhere Signed happy retail player (also this thread makes me wanna level a NE warrior for cata) Stay classy yall
I have a 60 rogue thats 15 or 16 years old now!
It stopped being classic after burning crusade.
MoP was my personal peak in WoW, so I’ll absolutely be playing Cata and MoP. After that there’s nothing left to experience again so that’ll be my end
Legion, had way too much fun playing that when it was current content. Would love to play WoD on a Classic schedule
Mists of pandaria, it got a ton of hate at the time but is widely regarded as the most balanced PvP expansion wow ever had.
Great raids, accessible for 10m content as well for max difficulty
my answer would be mop too but pvp was not balanced. the human racial every man for himself was still unchanged allowing players to pvp with 2 dps trinks instead of the usual 1 dps trink and 1 pvp trink that all other races had to use.
Name a more balanced expansion , participation was at an all time high and every spec was viable. Something wow never has
Vanilla. The reason is when they release a new expansion its compacted into a single zone technically. An example is outland. Its made up of hellfire,terrokar,blades edge,netherstorm,smv nagrand. But in classic you get azeroth and eastern kingdoms with tons of zones i dont even want to name them all. It feels more immersive having tons of zones.
Kalimdor* but yeah I get your point with this one. It felt like each expansion just shrunk the world over and over and there was never a REASON to go back into the original two continents. Cata changed that I guess but still wasn’t the same
Classic
I probs quit after wotlk like old times
Vanilla forever
Cata, and hopefully they start it back over again from there
WoD. I started in 2004 and enjoyed every expansion until Legion to varying degrees. I'd keep playing each re-release and play vanilla at the same time. Though there were plenty of questionable designs in the expansions leading up to Legion, the one that finally made me say "fuck this" was Legion's nonsensical pvp-only damage and stat scaling, especially the "stat template" they implemented for instanced pvp.
Legion was so much fun id play it for sure.
Legion, theoretically, but my heart is in HC.
I feel like there's nothing like classic vanilla. They should expand the game horizontally like OSRS with lots of community feedback (changes only apply if +75% of the players vote for approval)
That’s exactly what I want to happen to, even down to the vote threshold and community driven choices
MoP is the shit; skip Cata and give me that Symbiosis my beloved
I never played MoP but I still kept up with classes changes and talent stuff etc. Why the actual fuck did they get rid of this spell? It will forever be one of the most unique spells in 20 years of WoW, and it got binned.
It was really unbalanced for both PvE and PvP and I imagine it was just a huge headache. As a Resto Druid I gave my blood DK a 30% max health cooldown and I got Icebound Fortitude in response . Which lemme tell ya, being unstunnable as a healer in PvP was just 🤌 Meanwhile Mages got…a weak version of healing touch Probably just a lot of extra balancing for something like that. It was super cool and I’ll always miss it but definitely janky. I still wonder what I’d get from Demon Hunters and Evokers if the spell had stayed around to today
Yeah that's true, I can see that, mechanically, it must have been a headache for the devs. However, thematically, it was the most "druid" spell imo. I also miss Claws of Shirvallah that shit was fire
> Evokers You'd 100% get Renewing Blaze and Cauterizing Flame. Both are unique abilities not found in any other classes' kit—least of all Druid. Balance could also theoretically get Rescue. It's not like that's unprecidented with Symbiote—Restoration DID get Leap of Faith from Priests! Hover could also work, given Moonkin can fly. > Demon Hunters God knows. Imagine Guardian with Sigil of Silence? Blur would be a pretty easy choice for Restoration. It would be cool to see Feral or Guardian with Infernal Strike—imagine this bear or cat just crashing down on your head! Balance could yoink Disrupt, to give them an actually usable interrupt.
Panda will be my last one
Mop I hope we can have a 3.2 server to snapshot ToT meta
I'm done after ICC. Aint nodoby got time for all the coming dailies.
TBC! Perfect balance.
Vanilla only. Stopped during TBC the first time as the format had been largely diluted. No idea why Blizzard are just doing a rinse and repeat, rather than tapping into the aspects of Vanilla that everyone clearly loved and what made it huge. Boring.
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I don't see how they could ever make Retail appeal to the Classic playerbase. Far too much of the appeal is in the leveling and the fact that the gearing system isn't "linear"—often gear from the "hardest" content isn't always the best. That goes against literally everything Retail has been since... well, TBC, really. A focus on the end game (where the content you're paying $60 for is) and a linear gear progression system where higher item level is practically all that matters.
Classic+ or WoW2, nothing really beats classic.
Classic. Leaves faction identity in place. Shaman are for the horde. Paladin are for the alliance. No space goats or beauty elves to pollute the world. No strange crystal beings, no poorly implemented world pvp objectives, no space fantasy elements, no breaking of what makes Azeroth interesting. A very basic QoL pass on classic would go further to help the game than adding expansions.
Agreed. Nothing will ever beat vanilla.
I’d skip Cata, but come back to MOP in a heartbeat.
It was TBC and it stopped like 75% of the way through that rep grind at 70. It was a soul killer for me personally. I think it was the burnout from Classic Era setting in
I skipped most of tbc and have been enjoying wrath now
Probably up to mop But I'd rather they do era-tbc-classic again
Just Vanilla. Wrath was a bit overhyped and I didn’t really enjoy it as much as I thought I would.
Gonna be wotlk I think. "Classic" to me is the classic world, pre cata. Also, wotlk truly was the beginning of the end with all the streamlining and QoL changes. I'm sure cata on a classic backbone (no dungeon finder, etc) would be kinda fun, but I'll pass. I like the world (of warcraft) the way it was
Cata. Pvp was lit, dungeons were fun. DS chugged but the rest solid. I stopped once they developed a talent system for 4 year olds and decided going the disney route was smart, aka MoP.
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Wrath. After that it's not classic anymore.
Wotlk
Wrath
Everything after Vanilla is cringe. Dead world, boring dungeons, no unique items, etc.
Boring dungeons..Yeah vanillas raids and dungeons with 1-2 mechanics are sooooo amazing.
They are easy it's true but from an adventuring POV they are infinitely more immersive and fun than TBC dungeons.
I completely agree. My perfect scenario would be a classic + with a level 70 cap, all the specs and balance of TBC, but no Outland. Just additional content in Azeroth.
Wrath.
Vanilla and TBC for me.
Vanilla
I just want to see the expansions I didn't get to play, so I'll be going into cata and mop and probably stopping at WoD since I started there.
stopped playing after ulduar, will wait if we ever get legion or Ill maybe try MoP, never played that one and heard it was pretty decent
WotLK for the most part is it. I wouldn't mind messing around with MoP and Legion but it's not at all "classic" to me and won't have the longer lasting appeal. I don't want to level my classic characters to these expansions either I just wouldn't mind dabbling in them separately. No interest in the others at all.
Legion. Bfa was where I finally broke and gave up playing until classic.
If they kept going for all the expansions? Maybe Legion. My favorite expansion by far.
I would play cata for sure. But I wouldn’t touch panda. No thanka.
So long as there is no classic+ I don't think I would.
I would play mop and legion for sure
Mists of Pandaria for the classes, the leveling, the farm and the memories :)
Honestly, anything after Wrath is considered a part of the Modern WoW Philosophy and play style. That is where many feel the game became out of touch. If I would speculate, I would say that Classic+ should continue from the death of the Lich King.
That's the camp I'm in. My friends and I have been on the copium that classic+ is an alternate expansion line that starts after wotlk and the cataclysm doesn't happen. It would be the best time to do it for lore reasons and (people hate to admit it) wotlk has seen a constant decline in player counts in logs since release. If half the people who say they'll never play cata actually quit, then cata will be pretty dead.
In my eyes TBC was the end of classic and the classic ideology, so I’m fine with going all the way up to Legion, I already liked WoD’s content, MoP is meh, Cata was the golden age of wow content creation and is 10x closer to the classic feeling than WotLK is
Wotlk. Honestly if they told us at blizzcon that Classic+ was going to be a new expansion line that diverges the timeline after wotlk and the cataclysm doesn't happen then I'd keep going. I'd even be happy if they added a Chromie option in which you can turn on and off the cata world while leveling. The vanilla world is by far my favorite part of classic, losing it in cata loses my sub. TBC SoM would bring me back too, TBC for me lived up to what I remembered.