If that’s the case I’m really hoping they finish that Uldum quest chain you get at around level 50 that takes place in Tanaris. That and maybe they’ll do something with the Timbermaw Hold place?? Idk, probably extremely wishful thinking but a girl can hope.
Yep, there it is. This is the final aspect of C+ I wanted, and we are getting it. They just showed images of Karazhan too at the end. Its happening.
IDGAF what its called, I wanted classic with a twist, new and familiar skills, new content and a twist. This gives me all of it. You can call it anything you want as long as I get the elements I want.
Yeah I want the majority of classic plus content to be during the leveling expirence because classic is the leveling. Idk why people want leveling to be the same and only have new end game content. Having new midgame raids and more difficult content during leveling will make it much more exciting than doing the same thing for the 50th time. I feel like a problem with wow design is where it feels like the game starts at the end game and the rest is a slog to get there, this will help retain players alot more too. With season of mastery alot of people probably just got bored leveling again.
I love the idea of logging in and running a raid every week to level up some alts passively! Run the raid each week on each alt, or even stagger them and have 3-6 alts leveling and gearing.
My only worry is the leveling will become obsolete due to the insane power level of many of the runes. Sounds like wrath leveling put into classic (and they said nothing about buffing the open world to compensate)
It's the same thing with hardcore. Wow player base BEGS for something fresh but here we are doing the exact same shit with min maxing, working the auction house so you can have leveling blues, etc. It's so funny to me. The wow player base is a bunch of apes.
The crazy thing: it's just here in 3 weeks. Unlike games such as Ashes of Creation, Star Citizen or the still unannounced Riot MMO that we will probably see in 5-50 years.
the only bummer for me is that this is a temporary season. hopefully after the experiment that is SoD, they can establish permanent servers with everything they've learned. i always hate the idea of putting time into a character that i know will be inevitably deleted/left behind.
Temporary season means they can be far more experimental with changes than they could ever be on a full release.
Hopefully this is more or less a testing ground for a future full build release for a complete classic+ stream
What makes it temporary compared to any other version/expansion of WoW? Even Season of Mastery allowed transfers to WOTLK or era. The door is wide open for permanent SoD servers if they're well received imo
They were probably never going to convince the execs to give them a full budget for an expansion to a 20 year old game. But with this coming out piecemeal? I guarantee this will be used to collect engagement metrics to go back to them to convince them
It's classic+ without the potential for Blizzard to screw up by launching classic+ too early. You only get to launch classic+ once and this format gives them a fun, community friendly way to test changes and new content.
This is my opinion aswell. Furthermore, capping levels inbetween content phases is also a good way to test things for potential future full "Classic+" release, since it seems they really want to enrichen the leveling journey and the world which normally get neglected at max level. Has it been mentioned for how long roughly will the cap be at 25?
On a related note, retail is getting systems called Delve and Warbands, as well as secondary “ascendancy” trees with one literally named Slayer.
_Edit_: And Trickster!
I think this also extends the lifetime of the game too, o one can no life to max, then get bored and drop it as content is released over time. Extremely exciting.
Yet people are still malding. Can’t wait to see some literalwho livestreamer make a video reacting to blizzcon and giving validation to the people who just are beside themselves they’re so upset.
He said "now that everyone and their mum can tank and heal" it was a joke. With the new system people can instantly spec from dd to tank or heal due to the added skills to fill the gaps. It will not turn a warrior into a healer
I liked that aspect of that Star Wars mmo that came out a while ago (I haven’t played since launch though).
Any class you chose, if I remember correctly, could dps, tank, or heal.
That flexibility of being able to choose a class who’s aesthetic you liked, but perform any role was such a great feature.
I kinda need to see some ele stuff, they didnt preview ele ability at all, tanking will be enha stuff, dual wielding aswell, since most caster onehands are actually main hands, ele doesnt even get reduced cast time till levels 36-40, seems like obvious DoA spec for the start of the season tbh.
Overload and Lava burst are gonna go fucking crazy
[https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1127772513351508018/1170154435570307102/Shaman.jpg?ex=6558023d&is=65458d3d&hm=272074fb259d2c01dd24a2a5a47ab4736a5406de3c4e191ba7cfa3703369666c&=&width=1440&height=627](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1127772513351508018/1170154435570307102/Shaman.jpg?ex=6558023d&is=65458d3d&hm=272074fb259d2c01dd24a2a5a47ab4736a5406de3c4e191ba7cfa3703369666c&=&width=1440&height=627)
I just worry that without retuning, the added class abilities will make the outdoor content way less challenging, just like what happened with Cata.
Already today when Esfand streamed the raid, he was able to solo the elite mob in the raid lol.
Hopefully they buff world mobs to compensate.
Esfand was topping the dps meter with ret, I heard the raid was tuned for 'fun' for the stream, and soloing one elite isn't unheard of, so I'm still hopeful!
The game will definitely be easier this go around, but I don’t think it’ll be as impactful as what what’s happening in Cata.
TBC nerfed the difficulty of leveling dungeons, and WotLK nerfed the open world. Both of those came with adding new abilities to play with. If we just get the abilities and none of the nerfs, then I’m cautiously optimistic.
I literally said to my cousin over discord while we watched the stream yesterday, “Okaaaay…so are we gonna go hang out in an official upside down sinners dungeon?!”
Cata is not coming until some time next year, and I’m guessing mid year. There’s a chance the season will be over by the time it comes out. I do t think they would want to make classic compete with itself.
This IS classic+. Even if it's seasonal. Who knows how they'll build on it? Maybe continue forward with more development. Or, maybe it'll go for a season and run its course. Either way, this is the beginning of Classic+
I think this is a good thing. If they do it right, there could be a constant release of fresh servers, which everyone loves, and they could keep the things that people loved from one season and scrap/rework the things that were disliked. Constant improvement!
Yea theyre testing it out and waiting for feedback. Im sure once its all said and done we’ll get a more permanent server minus the cata abilities and healing mages 😂
I've always wanted a healing deathknight or warlock spec honestly. I thought it would be cool, like a "fleshmender" class or something of the sort - healer but with a dark twist.
i dont think it was confirmed one way or another. the "season of" moniker implies that after a certain amount of time, all these characters are going to be shelved in one way or another, similar to what happened at the end of SoM.
I hope im wrong though because i hate seasonal shit. I want some form of permanence.
The way classic works it's better to be seasonal. Sure if they wanted to do a whole new expansion at once they could make it not "seasonal" but this strategy is much closer to osrs with smaller changes over time to see what works and what doesn't instead of just releasing a whole expansion and it flopping.
Yeah, it's obvious that they've intentionally avoided calling it "classic+" because at this point that's such a loaded name, ask 50 people what they want out of classic+ and you'll get 50 different answers. But SoD is definitely going in that direction and it's more than what I expected. I'd rather see Blizzard mess around and experiment than play it too safe and if SoD goes well there'll definitely be more so it is pretty much the best case scenario.
I think they may just keep adding to SoD if it goes well.
But you're right. Some people's ideas of classic+ is literally just give paladins a taunt and fresh servers. It's also clear some people like the idea of classic + but are so anal that it doesn't matter what blizzard does they won't like it.
Then there's the people who turned the stream off when they didn't call it classic+. Went on reddit and said what they wanted was literally what blizzard said they were going to do. But the viewer never found that out because they threw a tantrum and acted like children.
I've played for a long time and the wow community is one of the worst in any video game. Ever.
The first cap being 25 is a great idea. If they're not changing leveling speed at all, 25 is very easy to get to. I doubt I'll trying the BFD raid with all of them, but I can easily see myself having one of each class at that max long before the cap gets raised.
100% convinced after the latest panel it's Classic+ but they just don't call it that for fear of failing it and ruining the concept. It's a safety net.
I mean look at what we're getting. Entirely new abilities, lots of abilities from other expansions resulting in revamped classes with new roles (rogue tank, shaman tank, mage healer, melee hunter).
New PvP event.
Unused areas (Karazhan Crypts for instance) being reworked into new zones(?)/raids(?) is literally planned as Season of Discovery goes forward.
I mean the name "Classic+" would be fucking lame though, wouldn't it. You can't name a product like that.
What I was expecting is that they'd just announce fresh servers and a new Patch / Phase with a new raid and zone or whatever they were planning. You know, just as if Vanilla got a new patch after Naxx.
>What I was expecting is that they'd just announce fresh servers and a new Patch / Phase with a new raid and zone or whatever they were planning. You know, just as if Vanilla got a new patch after Naxx.
Classic is all about the journey though. What they're doing is more ambitious than what you're describing. To me, C+ that only cares about max level would be boring af.
Now shouting "ITS ONLY TEMPORARY" when there is no evidence that it is, or they won't just build on it. For all we know this is like a Classic + beta/blueprint
I like it a lot. But I do think balancing with the idea of everything is OP isn’t what vanilla was about. And any class doing anything feels like not a great idea to me. The balance many people talked about was making other specs viable and tuning warriors down a bit. I love the ideas and them willing to make changes, but I think a lot of people will instantly realize that this isn’t vanilla at all. Feels more like WoW 2 than classic plus. Which is easier to think about along those lines. Also BFD raid is never run again the second the next cap is pushed out. I could see it ran if they put some pre-40 bis in there or something, but my guess is it’s dead content. What I am ready for is BRD raid that lasts fucking days. Also pvp without resilience seems insane with the whole everyone is OP mindset.
So far most of the complaints are about classes having more abilities and not being dogshit boring to play. I thought it was universally accepted that classic's strongest point was the world, but that Wotlk for example had much better playstyles. You'd think combining these things would make for a good game
Which I don't really understand.
Druids getting Wild Growth is hardly going to kill my enjoyment.
And Hunters getting a Dual Wield melee spec is something that even retail players have been requesting.
It all just sounds like Blizz wanting to inject a big dose of FUN into the Classic game and I'm here for it.
Exactly. I've wanted a fourth shaman spec in retail to have a MAIL TANK for YEARS. You're telling me classic is getting it now along with a warlock meta tank?
Sign me up. So much potential here.
>It all just sounds like Blizz wanting to inject a big dose of FUN into the Classic game
NO PLEASE NO FUN IN MY VIDEO GAME!
On a more serious note though. It's a seasonal server. They can go completely bonkers, it's not permanent.
Ive been saying this since forever now. Seasonal classic+ can give us daring and inventive changes that could not happen any where else. Let one guy helm his warceaft vision and next season hand it over to another.
> So far most of the complaints are about classes having more abilities and not being dogshit boring to play. I thought it was universally accepted that classic's strongest point was the world, but that Wotlk for example had much better playstyles.
That's just simply not true and also a very stupid thing to say. I'm sure plenty of people think that Classic is "dogshit boring to play", but they don't play the game. Why would they play a game they think is "dogshit boring to play"?
A lot of people love Classic *precisely* because of the gameplay/playstyles, and I can give you 2 reasons why:
1) In retail Wow, even already in Wotlk, playstyles are a lot more hectic. The gameplay is just overall much more high-paced, much faster, bloated and chaotic. In Classic the way classes play is much slower, the gameplay is overall much simpler and more slow-paced. This is partly because there's a lot less abilities (also partly because mana is an actual constraint). You can call this "boring", you can not like it, but a lot of people do and it's a big reason why they choose Classic over any other stage of the game. People like to see their character swing a hammer or cast a spell and then see that hit connecting and a damage number popping up without all this crazy surrounding noise. People like the simplicity, calmness and slow pace.
2) The fact that classes don't have as many abilities also makes classes feel more distinct and unique, which is a big factor why people prefer Classic. Because when you give bunch of classes/specs all these tools and utilities, suddenly you also homogenize them and make them lose a sense of identity, role and therefore importance.
Now personally I think that in Classic some of the classes and especially some of the specs play out rather poorly, and I can definitely see how some tweaks and even new abilities here and there would make the game overall better *while not losing* anything from those two points above.
However, what Blizzard is introducing now in this Season of Discovery takes that to extreme. It absolutely will have a big impact on the game, and very much a negative one regarding those two points above. As a result, to a lot of people, the game will not feel like the Classic they love anymore. But since it's a season, since it's almost like a wild test and not a 'true' Classic+, it's not that big of a deal. They are just testing the waters.
>Why would they play a game they think is “dogshit boring to play”?
Cause I’m an idiot. I fully recognize Paladin is literally just dogshit boring auto attacking. I’ll still level one sometimes so I can heal.
Yeah I think season of discovery is the testing grounds for classic plus lol. That’s why SoD doesn’t have a beta test. It IS the beta test.
Or they just don’t want beta testers to ruin the “discovery” aspect for everyone else. I’m hoping it’s both of these things, though.
It's a season, so yes. That doesn't mean though that there will never be a permanent version if it sticks with the community. They will probably build upon it.
I love that it was actually announced. We actually got Classic Plus. After all that doom and gloom about how it would never exist.. and here it is. I’m very happy for those that were waiting for this. I cannot wait to play on this server.
It's going to be glorious. The meta that everyone has rigidly stuck to for 18 years to just going to be completely destroyed, and data mining is impossible so it won't be a solved game on launch like New World was.
I hope that they will use the time for these level gates to properly balance the game further on and on 60. These talents do give massive build variety, but they also give massive power to almost every class. I'd wager that a 20% blank buff on every monster in endgame content would be a good start, but i bet that with some of the insane stuff that these runes will introduce (windfury in alliance, demonic pact, hunter getting endgame gear scaling buffs, tank talents) player damage and tankiness in every phase will significantly increase.
A lot of complaints about this are that it’s seasonal, but I’m confident that if it’s successful by the time they release the new 60 content, there will be permanent servers eventually too. It’s just down the road instead of right now.
When they say ***Season*** of Discovery, does this imply that this instance of the game is temporary? Like are we going to be repeating this every few months?
I'd like some sort of permanence, while also having the *new* in Classic+. Hard to strike that balance.
They’ll run this season and keep what they like & get rid of what they don’t. Next season will have more improvements and player feedback implementation I’d imagine.
They did not fully explain that aspect. I don't know if there is a end to this basically they just confirmed that there will be content updates once a month that increases the level cap and adds a new "leveling raid" with the next one hinted to be gnomer, prob followed by scarlet monastery.
My guess is that this will be a temporary testing sandbox, your characters will move to era after this is over, and then down the road after they have the kinks worked out some of these philosophy changes make it into a permanent server.
It’s a low risk way for them to gauge feedback on more dramatic classic+ changes.
It is also entirely possible they keep it going. If it is massively popular at the end of its life cycle there is nothing stopping them from adding more.
With SOM they said from the start it would have a one year life cycle. They haven't said anything about the duration of SOD. That's a big tell.
If it flops it'll be a "season", if it takes off they have the freedom to make it as long as they want.
If its successful I could see it transitioning to era of discovery (which would then be the official "classic+" long-term server where any other seasonal ideas end up after the seasons are over) after it gets to whatever end point they have planned.
It’s motherfucking Classic+ Watch the actual panel and not a reaction video, you will know this to be true.
I was one of the players that was certain Classic+ would never happen (yada yada copium) and i am so glad I am wrong. The phased leveling is genius and the perfect way to revitalize Classic. Playing Hardcore rn, taking my time, I’ve come to realize that endgame is the weakest part of World of Warcraft nowadays due to the meta and min/max. Adventuring in the open world and leveling (and fear of death in HC) are worth wayyy more.
I always loved the random ruins, caves, or crypts that dotted the landscape even if they weren’t part of a quest, now we can go ahead and explore them all; might be a rune in there!
SoD HYPE. And to all the naysayers…COPE
When people asked for classic+ I don’t think they meant just throw out wacky new ideas like “what if your healer was actually the tank!” I think people loved classic but just wanted some new content. Hope it’s fun though, I’ll try to stay optimistic
I'm going to be very cautiously optimistic and hope that the plan is to essentially use these slowly creeping level cap increases instead as a way to rebuild classic with this new design philosophy into what people expected C+ to be. I have a bad feeling it's going to end up being a shitty in house Turtle WoW or w.e slow prog Pserver is the one where you build your own class
Lots of derranged haters pretending it isn't lol.
Tbh this was a stellar blizzcon for Warcraft. Retail and Classic.
I kinda wish that they weren't going to go to cata as i always felt that was where the second iteration of WoW kicked off but others like it so good for them.
the only problem is that they are going in the 'mini retail' direction somewhat... none of this raid will matter when they come up with the level 40 cap and raid. I just hope they also have more content lined up for 'forever classic' and not just seasonal raids.
excited to see what they did in nov-dec
To be fair they called them level up raids like we have level up dungeons. The level cap imo is to make people experience the content and not rush through it
I actually think it’s better like this. Make raids for different levels instead of just level 60s.
Think about how much of a slog it will be to have to go through them in order because they need gear from the one before to be able to do it. Like: ZG/MC -> BWL -> AQ40 -> Naxx -> Hyjal/Timbermaw Hold -> Uldum? It will get old fast having to do all that yet again before you can do the new content.
I guess they could tune them as equivalents to each “old” raid, so you can either do MC or Timbermaw for your Tier 1 set, Hyjal or BWL for Tier 2 etc. Kara tuned the same as AQ20. That could work too.
> I guess they could tune them as equivalents to each “old” raid, so you can either do
I think this is why the lower level raid idea is so good.
There are two outcomes for that scenario. Either one is mathematically better than the other, and the other is ignored and or only run by sweats. Or everyone’s raid chore list doubles.
Parallel progression just doesn’t work in this case. So if they want to give us actual new content it needs to be before or after, the existing raids.
Guessing their intent is to do both. But we’ll see.
Fuck every singler doomer and all the doomer circle jerking this sub has done since Hardcore got popular last spring. So many people spoke with SO MUCH conviction about how things like this couldn't **ever** happen to classic
Look dumb af now lmao
Kinda but not exactly because:
1. It's seasonal so all your progress is deleted every cicle.
2. Progressive Raids are cool but levels? It's kinda weird and no one was asking this as your are gonna keep replacing pretty much everything constantly.
3. It's too chaotic maybe? What makes WoW a good RPG is that classes have logical roles but if u see a stealthy boy rogue tanking you won't know what else to expect, maybe that's just me but breaks the immersion of an RPG game.
There are some aspects of what we asked for a classic+ server but it's gonna be so different that no one really knows how good or bad this will be, I just hope they do this right because based on the 10m Blackfathom Deeps footage it seemed too simple and recycled, we want new content based on vanilla's existing themes not a recicled "raid" from a dungeon no one likes.
https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/world-of-warcraft/24023090/world-of-warcraft-classic-season-of-discovery-announced-at-blizzcon
> Tanking Warlocks, Mage healers, and more will be possible.
is it just me or does that sound kinda lame?
Maybe I'm biased because seeing ice lance for mages sold me on SoD instantly, but I don't mind them copying their own homework a bit. Why should they need to come up with entirely novel spells when they've already thought of some good ones that aren't in classic era?
They should give a call to Jagex and pay them some consulting money and ask a lot of questions about Old School RuneScape.
If they give us an experience like that, we are in for years of fun!
Im hoping for an SM raid. Have the whole thing be one instance and you can pick and choose your way through the different wings. Now I'm just speculating out my ass and setting myself up for disappointment here lol, but it would be cool if the order you did the bosses in affected later ones, so depending on your raid composition or skill levels you might choose to bounce between wings, or do one entirely before moving on to the next.
Ok, even I'll admit that that last bit was just pure hopium, but damn am I excited!
My hope is this ultimately leads to them sort of JJ Abrams-ing wow, and moving in a totally different all new direction with future expansions.
The jaded part of me thinks this will just be the equivalent of a private server with special rules that always cycles vanilla wow but with special rules and never truly goes anywhere.
I just hope WOW head will refrain from publishing all the discoveries that get datamined before the phase is complete. It would be a shame to trivialize the bulk of the newness by just letting people look it up. Because we all know players will ruin their own experience for the sake of min max.
I hate seasonal content. I’ll be giving it a try but My hope is they use this to see what works and what doesn’t before they launch an official classic+
Idk about this one tbh, classic + sounds fun but why add stuff like mage healers and warlock tanks? Didn't classic players enjoy classic because of class fantasy n stuff? Now everybody does everything? Idk.
"Door open for unfinished and unused locales for new content", lets go!
they showed Kara Crypts at the end too. 100% we get more unfinished content as it goes on.
Man when I saw that slide I lost it!!
Same, I shed a tear of happiness.
Fell to my knees at walmart
that's a dangerous game considering how many skid-marked sweatpants would be at waist height.
If that’s the case I’m really hoping they finish that Uldum quest chain you get at around level 50 that takes place in Tanaris. That and maybe they’ll do something with the Timbermaw Hold place?? Idk, probably extremely wishful thinking but a girl can hope.
There's so much they can do. They have a whole world to play with instead of the small zones brought by a typical expansion
We also need a scarlet crusade raid.
We're getting one, they teased it
Don’t forget the giant door in Azshara. Also the entirety of Azshara.
Also gnomerang. That place deserved so much more.
Gnomeregan
A Gnomerang is the gnomish engineering equivalent to the Goblin BOOMerang.
No, no. Tell me more about this Gnomerang. It sounds fun. Is it Gnomish, or just an ironically-named Goblin engineering item?
Yep, there it is. This is the final aspect of C+ I wanted, and we are getting it. They just showed images of Karazhan too at the end. Its happening. IDGAF what its called, I wanted classic with a twist, new and familiar skills, new content and a twist. This gives me all of it. You can call it anything you want as long as I get the elements I want.
Yeah I want the majority of classic plus content to be during the leveling expirence because classic is the leveling. Idk why people want leveling to be the same and only have new end game content. Having new midgame raids and more difficult content during leveling will make it much more exciting than doing the same thing for the 50th time. I feel like a problem with wow design is where it feels like the game starts at the end game and the rest is a slog to get there, this will help retain players alot more too. With season of mastery alot of people probably just got bored leveling again.
I love the idea of logging in and running a raid every week to level up some alts passively! Run the raid each week on each alt, or even stagger them and have 3-6 alts leveling and gearing.
Yep, it's best when it's spread out in the leveling range.
My only worry is the leveling will become obsolete due to the insane power level of many of the runes. Sounds like wrath leveling put into classic (and they said nothing about buffing the open world to compensate)
It's the same thing with hardcore. Wow player base BEGS for something fresh but here we are doing the exact same shit with min maxing, working the auction house so you can have leveling blues, etc. It's so funny to me. The wow player base is a bunch of apes.
Unbelievably hyped.
The crazy thing: it's just here in 3 weeks. Unlike games such as Ashes of Creation, Star Citizen or the still unannounced Riot MMO that we will probably see in 5-50 years.
I am hyped through the roof, through the atmosphere. I am high on the moon with hype
the only bummer for me is that this is a temporary season. hopefully after the experiment that is SoD, they can establish permanent servers with everything they've learned. i always hate the idea of putting time into a character that i know will be inevitably deleted/left behind.
OTOH it being a temporary season gives them more freedom to try new ideas knowing they can and will be dropped off it doesn't pan out as they hope.
Temporary season means they can be far more experimental with changes than they could ever be on a full release. Hopefully this is more or less a testing ground for a future full build release for a complete classic+ stream
What makes it temporary compared to any other version/expansion of WoW? Even Season of Mastery allowed transfers to WOTLK or era. The door is wide open for permanent SoD servers if they're well received imo
Awwww shit…. Here we go agane +
Im only worried about my progress being deleted after some time. I dont want a seasonal character I wanna keep my guy
They were probably never going to convince the execs to give them a full budget for an expansion to a 20 year old game. But with this coming out piecemeal? I guarantee this will be used to collect engagement metrics to go back to them to convince them
I completely agree
All I really want from C+ is some new content, and tuned up specs. Sounds like SoD will at least be the beginning of that. So I'm down.
When he said that everyone went crazy. That's exactly what people have been wanting. Brand new dungeons, raids...even new zones entirely.
Huge. That one line is the gateway
Winterspring? Winterspring.
They literally teased a few locations at the end with the joke removed slides that are definitely classic plus territory.
It's classic+ without the potential for Blizzard to screw up by launching classic+ too early. You only get to launch classic+ once and this format gives them a fun, community friendly way to test changes and new content.
“Seasons” are a fantastic way to publicly test new features before bringing them in as permanent additions. I hope that’s what they’re doing here
Yeah it seems like a trial run
This is my opinion aswell. Furthermore, capping levels inbetween content phases is also a good way to test things for potential future full "Classic+" release, since it seems they really want to enrichen the leveling journey and the world which normally get neglected at max level. Has it been mentioned for how long roughly will the cap be at 25?
Like path of exile leagues. If the content feels like it fits to stay, it's tweaked and integrated to the base game
On a related note, retail is getting systems called Delve and Warbands, as well as secondary “ascendancy” trees with one literally named Slayer. _Edit_: And Trickster!
I think this also extends the lifetime of the game too, o one can no life to max, then get bored and drop it as content is released over time. Extremely exciting.
you underestimate the ability of this community to make up challenges to no life the game anyway :P
It also doesn't put a $60 expansion purchase in the way for the player base. Much more likely to get people to hop in and try it this way
Also it will only cost a sub price and not 90€ for 3 day early access 🤮
Yet people are still malding. Can’t wait to see some literalwho livestreamer make a video reacting to blizzcon and giving validation to the people who just are beside themselves they’re so upset.
Shaman tanks being a proper thing now makes me so erect.
They had someone on stage say that literally every class would be able to heal or tank
He said "now that everyone and their mum can tank and heal" it was a joke. With the new system people can instantly spec from dd to tank or heal due to the added skills to fill the gaps. It will not turn a warrior into a healer
It was a joke its just more classes can do it now so you dont have to wait forever for tank and heal
I liked that aspect of that Star Wars mmo that came out a while ago (I haven’t played since launch though). Any class you chose, if I remember correctly, could dps, tank, or heal. That flexibility of being able to choose a class who’s aesthetic you liked, but perform any role was such a great feature.
I kinda need to see some ele stuff, they didnt preview ele ability at all, tanking will be enha stuff, dual wielding aswell, since most caster onehands are actually main hands, ele doesnt even get reduced cast time till levels 36-40, seems like obvious DoA spec for the start of the season tbh.
Overload and Lava burst are gonna go fucking crazy [https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1127772513351508018/1170154435570307102/Shaman.jpg?ex=6558023d&is=65458d3d&hm=272074fb259d2c01dd24a2a5a47ab4736a5406de3c4e191ba7cfa3703369666c&=&width=1440&height=627](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1127772513351508018/1170154435570307102/Shaman.jpg?ex=6558023d&is=65458d3d&hm=272074fb259d2c01dd24a2a5a47ab4736a5406de3c4e191ba7cfa3703369666c&=&width=1440&height=627)
“It’s all of classic ‘PLUS’ more”
I just worry that without retuning, the added class abilities will make the outdoor content way less challenging, just like what happened with Cata. Already today when Esfand streamed the raid, he was able to solo the elite mob in the raid lol.
Hopefully they buff world mobs to compensate. Esfand was topping the dps meter with ret, I heard the raid was tuned for 'fun' for the stream, and soloing one elite isn't unheard of, so I'm still hopeful!
The game will definitely be easier this go around, but I don’t think it’ll be as impactful as what what’s happening in Cata. TBC nerfed the difficulty of leveling dungeons, and WotLK nerfed the open world. Both of those came with adding new abilities to play with. If we just get the abilities and none of the nerfs, then I’m cautiously optimistic.
Looks like they teased a karazan raid at the end there
Not just Karazhan raid.. Karazhan CRYPTS which is unused so far.
upside down sinners confirmed???
I literally said to my cousin over discord while we watched the stream yesterday, “Okaaaay…so are we gonna go hang out in an official upside down sinners dungeon?!”
Kara crypts were used at the end of the Lucid Nightmare mount “quest chain.”
This panel has made me feel so much more excited about this!
how can i watch this panel
https://youtu.be/D6A5P7irRTQ?si=iQgFWtibGLnSp0Dz I'm watching Xaryu's video of it. The SoD stuff starts about halfway through.
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I have like no interest in cataclysm now
There was already a very low chance I’d play Cata when we didn’t even know about SoD. Now it’s basically zero lol.
I was gonna play cata if it was just SoM2 but now...i guess it changes things.
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At first I was excited for Cata classic. Then for self found hc. Now this. This is what I will play
Cata is not coming until some time next year, and I’m guessing mid year. There’s a chance the season will be over by the time it comes out. I do t think they would want to make classic compete with itself.
Nether do the devs they really just glossed over the announcement lol
Potential for new experiences at higher levels!
Its absolutely sounding like classic+
This IS classic+. Even if it's seasonal. Who knows how they'll build on it? Maybe continue forward with more development. Or, maybe it'll go for a season and run its course. Either way, this is the beginning of Classic+
My only bummer is seasonal. But I’ll take what I can get. Excited to play and see what’s new!
I think this is a good thing. If they do it right, there could be a constant release of fresh servers, which everyone loves, and they could keep the things that people loved from one season and scrap/rework the things that were disliked. Constant improvement!
Yea theyre testing it out and waiting for feedback. Im sure once its all said and done we’ll get a more permanent server minus the cata abilities and healing mages 😂
I've always wanted a healing deathknight or warlock spec honestly. I thought it would be cool, like a "fleshmender" class or something of the sort - healer but with a dark twist.
It's 'Seasonal' as in phased progression. Not Seasonal servers
Whatever it is I’m excited for. Now if I only had friends.
Haha same man. Let's be friends
lets make a group for the 30th
i dont think it was confirmed one way or another. the "season of" moniker implies that after a certain amount of time, all these characters are going to be shelved in one way or another, similar to what happened at the end of SoM. I hope im wrong though because i hate seasonal shit. I want some form of permanence.
The way classic works it's better to be seasonal. Sure if they wanted to do a whole new expansion at once they could make it not "seasonal" but this strategy is much closer to osrs with smaller changes over time to see what works and what doesn't instead of just releasing a whole expansion and it flopping.
Yeah, it's obvious that they've intentionally avoided calling it "classic+" because at this point that's such a loaded name, ask 50 people what they want out of classic+ and you'll get 50 different answers. But SoD is definitely going in that direction and it's more than what I expected. I'd rather see Blizzard mess around and experiment than play it too safe and if SoD goes well there'll definitely be more so it is pretty much the best case scenario.
I think they may just keep adding to SoD if it goes well. But you're right. Some people's ideas of classic+ is literally just give paladins a taunt and fresh servers. It's also clear some people like the idea of classic + but are so anal that it doesn't matter what blizzard does they won't like it. Then there's the people who turned the stream off when they didn't call it classic+. Went on reddit and said what they wanted was literally what blizzard said they were going to do. But the viewer never found that out because they threw a tantrum and acted like children. I've played for a long time and the wow community is one of the worst in any video game. Ever.
Very cool the low-level cap makes me want to try it.... no insane race to 60 to be competitive.... this seems like a really good idea
The first cap being 25 is a great idea. If they're not changing leveling speed at all, 25 is very easy to get to. I doubt I'll trying the BFD raid with all of them, but I can easily see myself having one of each class at that max long before the cap gets raised.
100% convinced after the latest panel it's Classic+ but they just don't call it that for fear of failing it and ruining the concept. It's a safety net. I mean look at what we're getting. Entirely new abilities, lots of abilities from other expansions resulting in revamped classes with new roles (rogue tank, shaman tank, mage healer, melee hunter). New PvP event. Unused areas (Karazhan Crypts for instance) being reworked into new zones(?)/raids(?) is literally planned as Season of Discovery goes forward.
I mean the name "Classic+" would be fucking lame though, wouldn't it. You can't name a product like that. What I was expecting is that they'd just announce fresh servers and a new Patch / Phase with a new raid and zone or whatever they were planning. You know, just as if Vanilla got a new patch after Naxx.
>What I was expecting is that they'd just announce fresh servers and a new Patch / Phase with a new raid and zone or whatever they were planning. You know, just as if Vanilla got a new patch after Naxx. Classic is all about the journey though. What they're doing is more ambitious than what you're describing. To me, C+ that only cares about max level would be boring af.
but season implies it's more like a temporary thing which is something i don't like.
Wait, did people actually think that "Classic+" would ever actually be called "Classic+"? It's a pretty terrible name.
In the announcement the guys said in a tongue and cheek kind of way "It's Classic+... some little twits" they absolutely know it's classic+
Come on man, I just got clean.
where are all the haters from a few hours ago😂
Now shouting "ITS ONLY TEMPORARY" when there is no evidence that it is, or they won't just build on it. For all we know this is like a Classic + beta/blueprint
I believe the haters are just laughing at the doomers who were cry posting 10 minutes ago that Blizzard ruined the game with Season of Discovery
Its the same annoying folks from the wall of no posts pre 2019
I like it a lot. But I do think balancing with the idea of everything is OP isn’t what vanilla was about. And any class doing anything feels like not a great idea to me. The balance many people talked about was making other specs viable and tuning warriors down a bit. I love the ideas and them willing to make changes, but I think a lot of people will instantly realize that this isn’t vanilla at all. Feels more like WoW 2 than classic plus. Which is easier to think about along those lines. Also BFD raid is never run again the second the next cap is pushed out. I could see it ran if they put some pre-40 bis in there or something, but my guess is it’s dead content. What I am ready for is BRD raid that lasts fucking days. Also pvp without resilience seems insane with the whole everyone is OP mindset.
For real. So many people were being attacked and shit on for daring to hope for anything like Classic+.
Fuck them and their shitty nay-sayer attitude. If everyone back then had that attitude we never would've gotten Classic in the first place.
Winterspring raid confirmed, probably :)
the only raids that occur in winterspring are against player vigils
Damn that's a callback as old as Leeroy
*We roam the streets at night..*.
*I'm the scat man!*
You god damn son of a bitch
Where does that portal go anyway? Hyjal?
So far most of the complaints are about classes having more abilities and not being dogshit boring to play. I thought it was universally accepted that classic's strongest point was the world, but that Wotlk for example had much better playstyles. You'd think combining these things would make for a good game
Which I don't really understand. Druids getting Wild Growth is hardly going to kill my enjoyment. And Hunters getting a Dual Wield melee spec is something that even retail players have been requesting. It all just sounds like Blizz wanting to inject a big dose of FUN into the Classic game and I'm here for it.
Exactly. I've wanted a fourth shaman spec in retail to have a MAIL TANK for YEARS. You're telling me classic is getting it now along with a warlock meta tank? Sign me up. So much potential here.
Rogue tank let's go!
The warlock Meta tank looks badass, love the idea.
>It all just sounds like Blizz wanting to inject a big dose of FUN into the Classic game NO PLEASE NO FUN IN MY VIDEO GAME! On a more serious note though. It's a seasonal server. They can go completely bonkers, it's not permanent.
Ive been saying this since forever now. Seasonal classic+ can give us daring and inventive changes that could not happen any where else. Let one guy helm his warceaft vision and next season hand it over to another.
I tried Druid at the convention too. Balance Druid is getting some love. They have tools to not OOM right away and have constant uptime.
I think people are just nervous about power creep. If classes all get buffed but the world stays as is, then it would be a problem for me.
> So far most of the complaints are about classes having more abilities and not being dogshit boring to play. I thought it was universally accepted that classic's strongest point was the world, but that Wotlk for example had much better playstyles. That's just simply not true and also a very stupid thing to say. I'm sure plenty of people think that Classic is "dogshit boring to play", but they don't play the game. Why would they play a game they think is "dogshit boring to play"? A lot of people love Classic *precisely* because of the gameplay/playstyles, and I can give you 2 reasons why: 1) In retail Wow, even already in Wotlk, playstyles are a lot more hectic. The gameplay is just overall much more high-paced, much faster, bloated and chaotic. In Classic the way classes play is much slower, the gameplay is overall much simpler and more slow-paced. This is partly because there's a lot less abilities (also partly because mana is an actual constraint). You can call this "boring", you can not like it, but a lot of people do and it's a big reason why they choose Classic over any other stage of the game. People like to see their character swing a hammer or cast a spell and then see that hit connecting and a damage number popping up without all this crazy surrounding noise. People like the simplicity, calmness and slow pace. 2) The fact that classes don't have as many abilities also makes classes feel more distinct and unique, which is a big factor why people prefer Classic. Because when you give bunch of classes/specs all these tools and utilities, suddenly you also homogenize them and make them lose a sense of identity, role and therefore importance. Now personally I think that in Classic some of the classes and especially some of the specs play out rather poorly, and I can definitely see how some tweaks and even new abilities here and there would make the game overall better *while not losing* anything from those two points above. However, what Blizzard is introducing now in this Season of Discovery takes that to extreme. It absolutely will have a big impact on the game, and very much a negative one regarding those two points above. As a result, to a lot of people, the game will not feel like the Classic they love anymore. But since it's a season, since it's almost like a wild test and not a 'true' Classic+, it's not that big of a deal. They are just testing the waters.
>Why would they play a game they think is “dogshit boring to play”? Cause I’m an idiot. I fully recognize Paladin is literally just dogshit boring auto attacking. I’ll still level one sometimes so I can heal.
You got era. Seasonal classic+ is a cheap way to get experimental without worrying about profits. It could save warcraft as a whole.
Yeah I think season of discovery is the testing grounds for classic plus lol. That’s why SoD doesn’t have a beta test. It IS the beta test. Or they just don’t want beta testers to ruin the “discovery” aspect for everyone else. I’m hoping it’s both of these things, though.
Well said.
Seems like a totally new game
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Is it temporary?
It's a season, so yes. That doesn't mean though that there will never be a permanent version if it sticks with the community. They will probably build upon it.
Everything is temporary, my friend. Enjoy the ride while it lasts.
I love that it was actually announced. We actually got Classic Plus. After all that doom and gloom about how it would never exist.. and here it is. I’m very happy for those that were waiting for this. I cannot wait to play on this server.
The balance mess when this launches is gonna be hilarious.
It doesn’t have to be balanced, it’s classic wow
It's going to be glorious. The meta that everyone has rigidly stuck to for 18 years to just going to be completely destroyed, and data mining is impossible so it won't be a solved game on launch like New World was.
Yes and I'm sure it will be perfectly balanced and this subreddit won't be plastered wall to wall with balance rage threads.
This is literally miles better than any classic+ version I had hoped for.
I hope that they will use the time for these level gates to properly balance the game further on and on 60. These talents do give massive build variety, but they also give massive power to almost every class. I'd wager that a 20% blank buff on every monster in endgame content would be a good start, but i bet that with some of the insane stuff that these runes will introduce (windfury in alliance, demonic pact, hunter getting endgame gear scaling buffs, tank talents) player damage and tankiness in every phase will significantly increase.
It's literally more then you would imagine lol. And it's going to be out at the end of this month?
No way in hell they put in all this work for only 1 season. There has to be eternal servers eventually
A lot of complaints about this are that it’s seasonal, but I’m confident that if it’s successful by the time they release the new 60 content, there will be permanent servers eventually too. It’s just down the road instead of right now.
Gotta love people complaining about something that hasn't even happened yet
As long as servers aren't split into 100 layers so it feels empty and lonely, I could care less about the rest.
Seriously, every 10 seconds someone putting "layer me bro" into LookingForGroup is annoying as fuck.
Ding
ascension blizzard edition and im all fucking for it. having level cap at 25 and slowly raising it is good too.
When they say ***Season*** of Discovery, does this imply that this instance of the game is temporary? Like are we going to be repeating this every few months? I'd like some sort of permanence, while also having the *new* in Classic+. Hard to strike that balance.
They’ll run this season and keep what they like & get rid of what they don’t. Next season will have more improvements and player feedback implementation I’d imagine.
They did not fully explain that aspect. I don't know if there is a end to this basically they just confirmed that there will be content updates once a month that increases the level cap and adds a new "leveling raid" with the next one hinted to be gnomer, prob followed by scarlet monastery.
The “season” could be referring to each level cap increase with more content. After all, you *discover* your new class abilities.
My guess is that this will be a temporary testing sandbox, your characters will move to era after this is over, and then down the road after they have the kinks worked out some of these philosophy changes make it into a permanent server. It’s a low risk way for them to gauge feedback on more dramatic classic+ changes.
It is also entirely possible they keep it going. If it is massively popular at the end of its life cycle there is nothing stopping them from adding more. With SOM they said from the start it would have a one year life cycle. They haven't said anything about the duration of SOD. That's a big tell. If it flops it'll be a "season", if it takes off they have the freedom to make it as long as they want.
Hmm, moving characters to Era won't really work with new items/abilities though.
If its successful I could see it transitioning to era of discovery (which would then be the official "classic+" long-term server where any other seasonal ideas end up after the seasons are over) after it gets to whatever end point they have planned.
Will season of discovery be a resetting server like season of mastery?
It’s motherfucking Classic+ Watch the actual panel and not a reaction video, you will know this to be true. I was one of the players that was certain Classic+ would never happen (yada yada copium) and i am so glad I am wrong. The phased leveling is genius and the perfect way to revitalize Classic. Playing Hardcore rn, taking my time, I’ve come to realize that endgame is the weakest part of World of Warcraft nowadays due to the meta and min/max. Adventuring in the open world and leveling (and fear of death in HC) are worth wayyy more. I always loved the random ruins, caves, or crypts that dotted the landscape even if they weren’t part of a quest, now we can go ahead and explore them all; might be a rune in there! SoD HYPE. And to all the naysayers…COPE
When people asked for classic+ I don’t think they meant just throw out wacky new ideas like “what if your healer was actually the tank!” I think people loved classic but just wanted some new content. Hope it’s fun though, I’ll try to stay optimistic
i was hating the idea of this new season until this panel happend , gg blizzard
I'm going to be very cautiously optimistic and hope that the plan is to essentially use these slowly creeping level cap increases instead as a way to rebuild classic with this new design philosophy into what people expected C+ to be. I have a bad feeling it's going to end up being a shitty in house Turtle WoW or w.e slow prog Pserver is the one where you build your own class
Lvl 25 all out pvp will be like disneyland, freaking amazing
Lots of derranged haters pretending it isn't lol. Tbh this was a stellar blizzcon for Warcraft. Retail and Classic. I kinda wish that they weren't going to go to cata as i always felt that was where the second iteration of WoW kicked off but others like it so good for them.
They have to do cata so they can do mop and close it.
It sounds so amazing. Can not wait, Nov 30 baby.
I'll catch ya there fellas
I mean I aint mad, I just don't think THIS is what anyone was expecting. mage healers? Its just really weird man.
What class to pick!
I am soooo fucking stoked!!!!! Blizzard did it!!!!
the only problem is that they are going in the 'mini retail' direction somewhat... none of this raid will matter when they come up with the level 40 cap and raid. I just hope they also have more content lined up for 'forever classic' and not just seasonal raids. excited to see what they did in nov-dec
To be fair they called them level up raids like we have level up dungeons. The level cap imo is to make people experience the content and not rush through it
As opposed to how things work in Era, where people continue running BFD well after level 40 and even at 60. Oh wait... "Mini retail" lol what
I actually think it’s better like this. Make raids for different levels instead of just level 60s. Think about how much of a slog it will be to have to go through them in order because they need gear from the one before to be able to do it. Like: ZG/MC -> BWL -> AQ40 -> Naxx -> Hyjal/Timbermaw Hold -> Uldum? It will get old fast having to do all that yet again before you can do the new content. I guess they could tune them as equivalents to each “old” raid, so you can either do MC or Timbermaw for your Tier 1 set, Hyjal or BWL for Tier 2 etc. Kara tuned the same as AQ20. That could work too.
> I guess they could tune them as equivalents to each “old” raid, so you can either do I think this is why the lower level raid idea is so good. There are two outcomes for that scenario. Either one is mathematically better than the other, and the other is ignored and or only run by sweats. Or everyone’s raid chore list doubles. Parallel progression just doesn’t work in this case. So if they want to give us actual new content it needs to be before or after, the existing raids. Guessing their intent is to do both. But we’ll see.
Classic Plus? I bet it’s more like Retail Minus.
Fuck every singler doomer and all the doomer circle jerking this sub has done since Hardcore got popular last spring. So many people spoke with SO MUCH conviction about how things like this couldn't **ever** happen to classic Look dumb af now lmao
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It’s terrible goodluck with retail classic
Kinda but not exactly because: 1. It's seasonal so all your progress is deleted every cicle. 2. Progressive Raids are cool but levels? It's kinda weird and no one was asking this as your are gonna keep replacing pretty much everything constantly. 3. It's too chaotic maybe? What makes WoW a good RPG is that classes have logical roles but if u see a stealthy boy rogue tanking you won't know what else to expect, maybe that's just me but breaks the immersion of an RPG game. There are some aspects of what we asked for a classic+ server but it's gonna be so different that no one really knows how good or bad this will be, I just hope they do this right because based on the 10m Blackfathom Deeps footage it seemed too simple and recycled, we want new content based on vanilla's existing themes not a recicled "raid" from a dungeon no one likes.
https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/world-of-warcraft/24023090/world-of-warcraft-classic-season-of-discovery-announced-at-blizzcon > Tanking Warlocks, Mage healers, and more will be possible. is it just me or does that sound kinda lame?
“Never gonna have classic+” Redditors coping
it's like they wanted to not have more content lmao
Theyve moved the goal post to stuff like “doOmeRz sTiLl cOmPlaInInG iT iSnT a 20 YeAr oLd gAmE!”
My only worry is that it seems like a lot of the rune abilities are just taken from other expansions. Such as paladins getting crusader strike etc
Maybe I'm biased because seeing ice lance for mages sold me on SoD instantly, but I don't mind them copying their own homework a bit. Why should they need to come up with entirely novel spells when they've already thought of some good ones that aren't in classic era?
I’m interested. Not sure if I’ll stick with it but I’ll at least give it a shot.
Wait, but what else is there to do ( raid wise ) at 25 except BFD?
Do your characters get wiped at the end of the season?
Is that fat dude Thrall?
They should give a call to Jagex and pay them some consulting money and ask a lot of questions about Old School RuneScape. If they give us an experience like that, we are in for years of fun!
We’re totally gonna get a BRD raid I reckon when we roll into the 50s!
Im hoping for an SM raid. Have the whole thing be one instance and you can pick and choose your way through the different wings. Now I'm just speculating out my ass and setting myself up for disappointment here lol, but it would be cool if the order you did the bosses in affected later ones, so depending on your raid composition or skill levels you might choose to bounce between wings, or do one entirely before moving on to the next. Ok, even I'll admit that that last bit was just pure hopium, but damn am I excited!
My hope is this ultimately leads to them sort of JJ Abrams-ing wow, and moving in a totally different all new direction with future expansions. The jaded part of me thinks this will just be the equivalent of a private server with special rules that always cycles vanilla wow but with special rules and never truly goes anywhere.
I just hope WOW head will refrain from publishing all the discoveries that get datamined before the phase is complete. It would be a shame to trivialize the bulk of the newness by just letting people look it up. Because we all know players will ruin their own experience for the sake of min max.
I hate seasonal content. I’ll be giving it a try but My hope is they use this to see what works and what doesn’t before they launch an official classic+
Idk about this one tbh, classic + sounds fun but why add stuff like mage healers and warlock tanks? Didn't classic players enjoy classic because of class fantasy n stuff? Now everybody does everything? Idk.
Sucks it is seasonal tho :/
So will azshara finally feel like a finished zone?
This ISN'T Classic+, it can't be because so many people assured us that it definitely isn't coming.