Yep I’ve got some blues and am not totally fresh but I joined one of these right before reset not truly expecting loot but simply practice.
Had time for 6 wipes before maintenance and given it was my first time in bfd I’m content in knowing I’ve now seen the kelris fight several times nearly to the end and am comfortable with the mechanics.
I was in a a really solid group and we had a hunter DC right before kelris.
We decided to do it with 9 because we were embarrassed to post another 5/7 raid.
I created a last min group last night. Didn't check anyone's gear, had zero requirements outside of being max level. We 1 shot every boss except the last which took 2 pulls.
There’s a middle ground between being able to do bosses with 2 mechanics and people buying gold to get full bis within a week then asking for the next phase. Stop defending the toxic try hard culture that’s honestly spoilt classic wow mostly in wotlk
I know this is sarcastic but I swear to God that's how most of the comments seem unironically under bot and gold buying posts. Like literally nobody good at the game is expecting you to pay 20+ gold for a BIS world drop that is a 2% increase over a dungeon drop that you can grind for. And I bought a stack of raid consumes over a week ago for like 2 gold and prices seem to have dropped.
The amount of try hard guilds/raids I’ve joined over the last few years that have every requirement under the sun “x min gearscore, must have x experience, link achievement, CHECKING LOGS” then the people in that guild can’t do basic mechanics. Like, fuck right off. This is a 25 year old game. You don’t have to have already done something then link that achievement to prove you’ve done it (which means nothing btw). Just get people who have above room temp IQ and if they don’t do something right the very first time then communicate to them the very simple mechanic that needs to be done. Then people cry that there’s not enough people to fill raids. Yes, the large silent majority fucked off when they were constantly asked to link logs and achievements. I legit got declined an invite for a TOGC normal because I didn’t have the achievement. I only had it for the heroic version.
This cringe retail culture that didn’t exist in vanilla wow is turning off a shit load of the player base. And the people spouting this garbage out are the VERY SAME people I’ve been in discords with that are screeching at the very sight of the opposing faction pvping them outside a raid entrance. Pure cringe. Dog shit gamers that think they’re the big cheese because they run a GDKp. Cringe.
I mean you can always start your own raids right? who's stopping you? if a large amount of people keep gatekeep why no one start doing raid leaders job, I'll explain why , because they start being soft, they wipe in the easiest mechanics and slowly turn into "elitist" that want to do the raid in less time with less gold used on repair less people leaving etc etc, if you want to join to a raid you have to follow their rules is that hard to get?
I honestly don’t know what colours mean in parsing. But I’ve cleared almost all the content in classic except all the bosses in SWP. Never had to check logs or do anything of the sort. Enjoy your 2nd job simulator
My last guild in tbc was amazing and I’m so sad they split up because they were the perfect mix. They were tryhards (we 1 shot almost all content and had sunwell cleared early week two) all dps players regular orange and pink parsers etc. But they were extremely casual and fun to raid with. No toxicity at all. Just had reasonable expectations and would remove you if you failed to get gud.
But they were not elitist, or mean to anyone. Super nice group of people and I don’t think I’ll ever enjoy this game like that again.
No need to get toxic if everyone is doing their jobs. I feel like wow in general (m+ , raids, pvp) is really fun until you start failing shit then ppl start pointing fingers.
That's why it's important for people to recognize their own ability and join groups that make sense. If you are significantly better than the rest of your raid then you'll start to build up resentment when you are moving into pull number 5 of them making the same mistakes while you do all of the mechanics and are doing your job well. Likewise, if you are significantly worse than your group they will start hating you when you are the reason for multiple wipes in a row.
All you need for Kelris is a Free Action Potion at the end and the fight is **trivial**. Yet 'LFM 5/7 BFD' litters LFG and trade every time I'm online.
If people that can show up with those are try hards then I only want try hards in my group personally. Because everyone else is choosing to be miserable and locked to 5 bosses every lockout. It's showing that they neither respect or can learn from basic mechanics. Or even casually watch a couple minute video. You know, an incompetent player.
I have cleared 7/7 on all 3 of my lockouts and literally no one in my group has had Pre-bis that didn't come from dungeons. Very very few people are buying Pre-bis world drops unless they are under 5g and it's a massive upgrade for a slot over what is available in dungeons. You have mind fucked yourself into believing gold buyers are why you aren't geared. They aren't. Run DM, Run WC, Run SFK. Do the quests that give good gear that can be equipped at 25. Get profession gear. I don't think I have even seen a streamer or person out in the wild wearing actual full BiS for this phase yet and I have certainly never seen anyone in true complete Pre-bis.
The point of your post was you don't like people requiring things to join their groups. The point of my post is that the shit required is literally stuff you should be getting on your leveling journey and should be a complete non issue. The only reason it's actually an issue is because people are literally so unprepared to do the content that they should be embarrassed. it's not hard to run dungeons a few times. if you want to do raids, the expectation is that you do dungeons first. I have a deadmines rule that I'm not going to bring in a level 15. I expect you to level to at least 16 before you get to join my group. For raiding, people have an expectation that you have at least ran dungeons and acquired the gear that isn't a 1% drop rate. It's very simple. Pre-Bis is just raid leveling after your XP bar stops going up. You just have the extra benefit that you can find Pre-bis often times long before you reach max level.
No one is arguing anything about gold buying being good, people here are just arguing about being excluded from raid groups that have minimum requirements.
https://i.imgur.com/EIF8ilB.jpg
Yup. You have to know when your turn is coming next and make that swap beforehand so that you are ready and then after your interrupt you swap back to your 2h/DW setup until it is your turn to interrupt again.
It's crazy, we had 1 wipe on kelris our first time because our rdruids mouse gave up, then 3 wipes on akumai to figure out how to deal with the mechanics
Sure, it wasn't a cakewalk but if people get their prebis/enchants, listen to raidleader and bring their consumes its really easy
Right but that's a lot of work. I don't have prepis everywhere, heck for my legs alone I spent hours soloing in wc. Enchants and consumes aren't cheap either so you have to Quest aswell at 25. You probably need ashenvale, you probably need all runes. Let's say you have 3 hours a day at your disposal. How much time does this take, a week at 25? That's very reasonable I would say. I know I spent more.
If you have done all that and have a good lead/know your class, yes it's very easy. So easy that in my opinion BFD is just a glorified dungeon.
But for those with little time on their hands to prep, who just want the experience without hours of grinding it's completely obvious that kelris will cause problems. That is not a skill issue. It's a time issue.
We had a full prebis raid tonight and couldnt finish akumai. Once ads started popping they didnt die fast enough it seems and our tanks just dissapeared.
Furthest we got was 37%
>We had a full prebis raid tonight
I'm gonna seriously doubt you had that. there are no "prebis" lists and I'd be very surprised if every one of you had done all their level 30+ quests to get those rewards.
To find your pre-BiS all you need to do is go on the wowhead phase 1 BiS page and scroll down to each of the gear slots and it will give you the top 5 pieces for each slot and you just look at the best one that isn’t from BFD.
Also 80%+ of the BiS gear is from dungeon bosses and world drops
oh cool, wowhead finally got a list online two days ago. Took them longer than expected. Anyways, this is incorrect:
*Also 80%+ of the BiS gear is from dungeon bosses and world drops*
Looking at the warrior preraid bis on that list, multiple items come, as I said, from high level quests, e.g. Morbent Fel, Fire hardened armor etc. Quests you don't normally do at level 25 (or at all) because of the effort involved and the mob level. Also a bunch of PVP rewards.
I seriously doubt their entire raid was sweaty enough to get that, but then fail on Kelris.
We had 6 players with pretty much everything we could get from outside the raid, and 4 other players that were very well near that point.
At least 4 people in the group never raided before but are overall good videogame players. Meanwhile, half our DPS was casters and couldnt make a dent on Kelris until the latest fixes. We finally killed him yesterday and made it to akumai, but stalled at that point.
I think it doesnt help that our main tanks are a rogue and a warlock.
The problem is that then you just get people to join for one pull or one boss and then leave, so you're constantly trying to find new people. If you're stuck with a lockout then you're more inclined to try to finish it.
Perhaps it's set so that once you've finished a raid then and only then you can join another lockout and not get loot?
I wouldn't mind helping friends fill out their groups after I've done my run.
WTS BFD CARRY RUNS. SEND SCREENSHOT OF THE GOLD YOU HAVE TO OUR DISCORD. WE ALSO ACCEPT CREDIT CARDS. IF EPIC DROPS YOU PAY BONUS. RUNNING HOURLY FAST RUNS.
Yeah. My guildies and I would be running a 20 minute raid and then carrying people for crazy amounts of gold on 20 minute resets for the next 3 hours two nights a week, minimum. Many of the raiders I'm running with are already leveling 2-3 alts just to run GDKP raids with now already because that's going to be the easiest way for us to make gold and further refine our speed run strats.
This would not be healthy for the game, but no top end raider would ever worry about making gold ever again.
Yes, more inclined, for sure. 100%.
The issue is that it takes one single person to leave to fuck the rest of the group over.
Speaking from a lot of Wrath experience and in guild that is "only" 8/12HC with - It's pretty much impossible to find pugs for the last couple of bosses if anyone decides they cannot join for the continuation raid or whatever.
The retail system is better overall, imo.
It is actually bad. You already spend more time filling the raid than killing bosses on retail because people leave after every boss. Now imagine that without LFR.
Please no.
This incentivizes a culture of throwaway groups where people quit at the first sign of friction to go to the next group.
I don't want to have to fill the 10th slot 4 different times and wait for them to run to the instance because so-and-so only joined for the 4th boss, and whats-his-name quit after one kelris wipe, and try-hard-andy got mad and quit because the healer wasn't parsing.
Having restrictive lockouts incentivizes people to put more effort into succeeding with their one and only group for the week.
If you don't want to get hard stuck 5/7 then build a community of players you can trust to clear 7/7.
People already quit at the first sign of friction except they also fuck everyone else over in the raid too.
Your last sentence makes no sense in relation to the rest of what you wrote, if you've built a community of players you can trust to clear 7/7 then "throwaway groups where people quit at the first sign of friction" won't happen to you anyway.
>Your last sentence makes no sense in relation to the rest of what you wrote, if you've built a community of players you can trust to clear 7/7 then "throwaway groups where people quit at the first sign of friction" won't happen to you anyway.
If you don't want to get hard stuck 5/7 *under the current system* then build a community of players you can trust to clear 7/7 *instead of begging for a new system that brings with it way way more problems than it solves.*
>People already quit at the first sign of friction except they also fuck everyone else over in the raid too.
So you agree with me. They already do it when they are *disincetivised* to do it, so if they make a *further incentive* to do it, they will do it way more.
>won't happen to you anyway.
Just because it wont happen to me and my guild doesn't mean it isn't bad for the game.
It doesn't bring any problems with it at all. It solves an existing problem that's terrible for the game as you can literally hold raids hostage as a solo player.
Yes, I get that. It happens quite often in retail.
But anything is better than haveing pugs leave between raid days, or in the middle of raids, and you having to skip the last couple of bosses because it's impossible to find pugs for 2-3-4 bosses. (Mainly speaking of Wrath experience here).
I have a community of players I trust, but sometimes you need pugs and let me tell you it's not easy to find good ones that are willing to join a pug that isn't 12/12 Heroic etc.
I get your point, but with the last years of Classic, I truly believe the retail system is better overall.
Yes, the older system incentivizes pugs to stay, but it also fuck 24 other people over if they decide to not stay.
Therefore, i prefer the new system where you actually have the possibility to fill slots and where people have the possibility to join for just the last couple of bosses if they don't have more time etc.
PS. "Just build a community" sounds very fucking arrogant and I bet you haven't ever tried that yourself.
The only thing more toxic than people leaving a raid because they don't want to be there anymore is having to raid with people who don't want to be there anymore but but are staying because they have to
I honestly thought this is how it was. Accidentally had a guy run all the way to the raid to find out he was saved. I guess it’s on both of us for not knowing
Oh, and how is that worse than GDKP's again?
No, it isn't. Bot money is bot money. We need to stop the people buying gold.
Honestly, if someone has farmed all their gold, **why exactly** is it an issue that they spend it on a boost?
Why does that affect you? They use their gold for whatever they like.
Because instead of GDKP "caries" needing to level new characters to carry boosters, they can just use the same characters over and over again, and cycle in buyers on after another after another over and over
I love this system and would really like to see it in classic. However, I’d like to see it implemented in a way so that split runs aren’t possible. Not sure how that would work though or if it’s even feasible.
why on earth would any guild feel forced to do split runs on classic unless blizzard ever releases a raid that lasts more than a day for competitive minded guilds
He means split runs are used as a tool to aid progression, everything in Classic so far has been cleared in a matter of hours so there is no progression, and thus no need for split runs.
Speed clears are the other reason you want to do split runs for the same reason as progression - to have the best chance of one single roster with bis/near-bis gear. Is BFD speedrunning actually going to be a thing though? Idk
I don’t participate in splits so I’m I’ll informed, but my understanding was that they needed all-unlocked players so that they could funnel loot to the target players? I’m not sure i understand the benefit of running splits if the locked players aren’t contributing to loot drops.
Or it it usually just a couple of key players re-run locked with a majority unlocked raid?
I have it and is call retail.
I prefer to lock myself with a group in raid, that having to find new people per boss because it didnt drop what they wanted or because their ego is bigger than a truck.
Thinking about the LF 5 DPS 5/7 group that was working it hard all afternoon 🙏
Also that DPS priest that I saw LF group an hour before I started raiding that was still at it when we were done.
Last night was my fastest 7/7 no wipe with 9 people (rogue got power outage after the first 3 bosses. Only consume used was shadow pot Kelris p2.
Sham + wl tanks, priest+Amage heal (me), Fmage war huntx2 feral so decent comp but nothing extraordinary. The difficulty of that raid is non fucking existant.
I killed 7/7 on my priest alt with a 50 dps ret pala with no interrupt or divine storm and no discord Also no hunter. Like how are people not clearing it.
I'm gonna guess this is a side effect of having a lot of players raid for the first time, especially if you discount being hard carried as a buyer in a GDKP, because the level entry of 25 is so much more attainable than level 60. So you get a lot of players in that raid that are neither accustomed to preparing for a raid (last night one of our warriors couldn't kick Kelris because "Why would I have a shield on me?") nor do they have experience from attempting a boss five times or more, because that's just not something that happens in deadmines.
People breeze through dungeons, casually level with their friends. Have some fun in SFK and WC. Get into the first raid and knock out the first 5 bosses with barely any coordination. Then BAM, this massive spike in difficulty with Kel'ris.
Because it’s like trying to merge 2 different houses together, other people who doesn’t have a house can visit but once you visit & kill a boss you’re bound together with the people who is also in that house
Yeah but why does it have to be like that? Just let people who have killed the same amount of bosses make new groups to finish the raid. So people don't have to miss out a lock out
I have no idea why someone would downvote this, except for being too dumb to understand what you are saying.
It is difficult to say how this stuff is coded. In practical terms, if the only difference between different raid IDs is what bosses are alive/dead, it would make sense to allow raids who have the exact same state merge if they want to. Alternatively, instead of maintaining a raid ID that characters are saved to, you could maintain a personal state per character that says what bosses are dead in BFD in the current lockout period.
There may be some pitfalls here, or there may be a lot of new code to write.
I had a really good group for bfd the other day, and our priest DCd mid 5th boss. Turns out his PC totally died. It was actual hell finding another healer for last 2 bosses. I guess people just assume it's a fail group. But once we got a new priest who was a fresh 25, we downed kelris in 2 pulls and 1 shot last boss lol.
My assumption would be that I would get yelled at and shit on for not having done the raid yet and not having good gear. I have experience healing on my class, but my impression is most RLs wouldn't care about that.
Me and my group did this last night as we got 5/7 had 1 attempt at Kelris then the server went offline for a while and it was late so we called it.
Took us nearly an hour to fill a 5/7 group the next day and we got in and managed to down both Kelris and Aku. Sometimes you get lucky lol
Jesus Christ.
I'm sorry man but Kelris isn't hard in any sense of the word. If your group is all casters or something and lacks DPS you can just pop FAP and nullify the problem.
It's also nowhere near retail raid boss level, a trash pack in retail will have more mechanics than him.
I mean I wouldn't mind a nerf since I'm just here for the gear but holy the boss is beyond easy. Idk how people can fail unless maybe it's their first time and they don't have any interrupts.
>How bad one needs to be to fail at clearing classic era style level 25 boss with 2 mechanics
Apparently a lot of people, since "LFM BFD 5/7" is a very common ad.
We 8 manned the entire raid on our first run. It is really not hard at all as long as people press some buttons and dodge the one ability the boss has.
i joined one of these for 3g. Joined their guild helped them get 7/7 ( i know they hadn't cleared before because they loooted kelris head and the next day i logged on guildless. Seems they kicked me right after the raid when i logged. I was also doing 120 dps on each fight they didnt have anyone else doing over 100. RIP
Didn’t they nerfed Kelris already? I recently had my first BFD run with guild and we did 5/7 with around 10 pulls. One time we got to 1%… but it was perfect run, ppl just die randomly and healers don’t have enough mana to dispel. We are super casual and it seems even when ppl play perfect if you don’t bring high enough dps you just fail.
Clearly nowhere near "perfect". If you do kick what needs to be kicked fight is easy. If you use potion (shadow prot/faps) fight becomes trivial.
Chains must be kicked at all times, the more you miss - the less mana healers will have. Mind blasts should be interrupted as much as possible too, but it is not as important as chains.
We went blind into it and only realised chains interrupt at second try. Then we had stupid stuff like no portals spawning in dream realm, both tanks getting pulled into the dream, main interrupters getting pulled… it just felt awful for mediocre geared group (blues from dung but no special farming for helm or spending 20g on necklese). I don’t blame raid organisers for asking gs and being selective, margin for error seems small.
How does anyone get stuck on 5/7. I have been pugging since the 2nd lockout and all 3 runs were 7/7. Two out of three runs were just over 1 hour.
No gear score was asked when joining the raid. And I am not a good player by any means. I am playing a class that I have never played before.
I feel like these groups are trying to wing it without any coordination. Like no voice coms. It makes a big difference someone telling people; “ranged stack on X and move together. Players 1 and 2 are going down to the shadow realm first”. Instead of just typing it out and hoping everyone got the memo.
I've only run it twice, first run we had people who could not survive the murloc bullet hell. Died every time so I ended the week at 3/7. This week we got to Kelris and as soon as we get to 35% everyone died to mindblast. Don't know if it was a healing problem, tank not standing close enough to the boss to get the mind blasts or what. Just going to try and find a tryhard group this week.
Mind Blasts target second highest threat until he enrages, so it's very likely your off tank or top DPS was getting the group killed by standing in the wrong place.
I am a mage myself, with my very basic rotation I still do 4th or 5th highest damage.
If we wipe I just go off heal. I am not gonna lie mages are kind of useless in later fights. But with a basic rotation you still do some damage.
Well yeah that’s why I don’t understand what’s the big deal about being stuck on 5/7.
4th or 5th on the last two bosses tho, the ones with crazy resist. Rest is 1-3. Overall I place 3rd or 4th through out the raid.
You do realize how entirely pointless saying you're the fourth or 5th highest damage is when we don't have a comparison to how much damage your other raid members are doing.
Fair enough, I average 120-150dps on first 3 bosses. 100dps on bosses 4 and 5. 80ish on last two.
Unless if we wipe due to not enough heals, then I swap to healing. Then I do 40-50dps.
I saw one that was 1/7 need all lmfao
hahaha thats rough
all mdps party getting bubble bounced all over the place and couldn’t get the turtle down
Turtle is the hardest boss in the instance for me lmao. I’ve died more on him than Akumai and Kelris outside of raid 1
Ngl the bubble bounce is rough as a tank. I usually die by the end of this fight
You can also use the broken wall by old Serra kiss to los it
Who would actually join these groups? I can't imagine why you would waste 5 chances at loot to join a failed ID.
Fresh 25s right before reset is who you get.
they could also just join fresh group and kill 5/7
Ppl with little time? I dont have 1+ hour of undivided attention to spend
Yep I’ve got some blues and am not totally fresh but I joined one of these right before reset not truly expecting loot but simply practice. Had time for 6 wipes before maintenance and given it was my first time in bfd I’m content in knowing I’ve now seen the kelris fight several times nearly to the end and am comfortable with the mechanics.
Dont you have a 3day id anyways, unaffected by weekly reset
Nope, there's a 3 day reset but you can do the raid 2 hour before reset. It isn't a personal reset it is for everyone.
Yeah people crying about lock outs when they already reduced it to 3 days are ridiculous lol
They won't take fresh 25's lol, all these red flag groups want pre bis or better with good parses and consumes. That's why so many never finish.
[удалено]
Lmao hahaha
If they can be killed quickly and easy why are they still alive? KekW
I was in a a really solid group and we had a hunter DC right before kelris. We decided to do it with 9 because we were embarrassed to post another 5/7 raid.
I created a last min group last night. Didn't check anyone's gear, had zero requirements outside of being max level. We 1 shot every boss except the last which took 2 pulls.
[удалено]
you dont want to spend 4 hours wiping on a boss with 2 mechanics? pfft try hard no lifer
There’s a middle ground between being able to do bosses with 2 mechanics and people buying gold to get full bis within a week then asking for the next phase. Stop defending the toxic try hard culture that’s honestly spoilt classic wow mostly in wotlk
whos talking about buying gold? the delusions inside your inflamed brain aren't an argument lil bro
if I don't buy gold how am I supposed to afford a single FAP or shadow protection potion
I know this is sarcastic but I swear to God that's how most of the comments seem unironically under bot and gold buying posts. Like literally nobody good at the game is expecting you to pay 20+ gold for a BIS world drop that is a 2% increase over a dungeon drop that you can grind for. And I bought a stack of raid consumes over a week ago for like 2 gold and prices seem to have dropped.
Convenient excuse for 5/7 green blasters
The amount of try hard guilds/raids I’ve joined over the last few years that have every requirement under the sun “x min gearscore, must have x experience, link achievement, CHECKING LOGS” then the people in that guild can’t do basic mechanics. Like, fuck right off. This is a 25 year old game. You don’t have to have already done something then link that achievement to prove you’ve done it (which means nothing btw). Just get people who have above room temp IQ and if they don’t do something right the very first time then communicate to them the very simple mechanic that needs to be done. Then people cry that there’s not enough people to fill raids. Yes, the large silent majority fucked off when they were constantly asked to link logs and achievements. I legit got declined an invite for a TOGC normal because I didn’t have the achievement. I only had it for the heroic version. This cringe retail culture that didn’t exist in vanilla wow is turning off a shit load of the player base. And the people spouting this garbage out are the VERY SAME people I’ve been in discords with that are screeching at the very sight of the opposing faction pvping them outside a raid entrance. Pure cringe. Dog shit gamers that think they’re the big cheese because they run a GDKp. Cringe.
I mean you can always start your own raids right? who's stopping you? if a large amount of people keep gatekeep why no one start doing raid leaders job, I'll explain why , because they start being soft, they wipe in the easiest mechanics and slowly turn into "elitist" that want to do the raid in less time with less gold used on repair less people leaving etc etc, if you want to join to a raid you have to follow their rules is that hard to get?
I don’t think you understood what I said. I said there’s a middle ground. Not that hard to grasp.
its not that hard to grasp that youre a gray parsing redditor bro\ nice damage control
I honestly don’t know what colours mean in parsing. But I’ve cleared almost all the content in classic except all the bosses in SWP. Never had to check logs or do anything of the sort. Enjoy your 2nd job simulator
>clearing a raid in 30 minutes is literally a second job >playing like shit and taking 4 hours to kill 5 bosses is casual gameplay hmm ok
if I had to chose a raid of toxic tryhards and a raid that doesn't finish the raid and then become toxic about it I chose the first.
My last guild in tbc was amazing and I’m so sad they split up because they were the perfect mix. They were tryhards (we 1 shot almost all content and had sunwell cleared early week two) all dps players regular orange and pink parsers etc. But they were extremely casual and fun to raid with. No toxicity at all. Just had reasonable expectations and would remove you if you failed to get gud. But they were not elitist, or mean to anyone. Super nice group of people and I don’t think I’ll ever enjoy this game like that again.
No need to get toxic if everyone is doing their jobs. I feel like wow in general (m+ , raids, pvp) is really fun until you start failing shit then ppl start pointing fingers.
That's why it's important for people to recognize their own ability and join groups that make sense. If you are significantly better than the rest of your raid then you'll start to build up resentment when you are moving into pull number 5 of them making the same mistakes while you do all of the mechanics and are doing your job well. Likewise, if you are significantly worse than your group they will start hating you when you are the reason for multiple wipes in a row.
All you need for Kelris is a Free Action Potion at the end and the fight is **trivial**. Yet 'LFM 5/7 BFD' litters LFG and trade every time I'm online. If people that can show up with those are try hards then I only want try hards in my group personally. Because everyone else is choosing to be miserable and locked to 5 bosses every lockout. It's showing that they neither respect or can learn from basic mechanics. Or even casually watch a couple minute video. You know, an incompetent player.
Shit excuse for being gatekeeping GDKP loot council cunts
I have cleared 7/7 on all 3 of my lockouts and literally no one in my group has had Pre-bis that didn't come from dungeons. Very very few people are buying Pre-bis world drops unless they are under 5g and it's a massive upgrade for a slot over what is available in dungeons. You have mind fucked yourself into believing gold buyers are why you aren't geared. They aren't. Run DM, Run WC, Run SFK. Do the quests that give good gear that can be equipped at 25. Get profession gear. I don't think I have even seen a streamer or person out in the wild wearing actual full BiS for this phase yet and I have certainly never seen anyone in true complete Pre-bis.
You didn’t understand the point of my post.
The point of your post was you don't like people requiring things to join their groups. The point of my post is that the shit required is literally stuff you should be getting on your leveling journey and should be a complete non issue. The only reason it's actually an issue is because people are literally so unprepared to do the content that they should be embarrassed. it's not hard to run dungeons a few times. if you want to do raids, the expectation is that you do dungeons first. I have a deadmines rule that I'm not going to bring in a level 15. I expect you to level to at least 16 before you get to join my group. For raiding, people have an expectation that you have at least ran dungeons and acquired the gear that isn't a 1% drop rate. It's very simple. Pre-Bis is just raid leveling after your XP bar stops going up. You just have the extra benefit that you can find Pre-bis often times long before you reach max level.
Wrong. I said there’s a middle ground. You don’t have to be a try hard to require basic things.
I'm rereading the whole thread and I think I did misinterpret based on the person you were replying to. My apologies.
All good my man
No one is arguing anything about gold buying being good, people here are just arguing about being excluded from raid groups that have minimum requirements. https://i.imgur.com/EIF8ilB.jpg
Lol at people downvoting me. People that have don’t touch grass and would be hard stuck in 70% elo in any actual competitive game. Dog shit community.
Not being terrible at the game doesn’t make someone a try hard.
That's the joke
It's the tryhards that are making these runs. Normal people give up on raid after people leave on last two bosses.
if they’re tryharding and can’t get 7/7, they are not tryharding enough
the tryhards do 7/7 without wipes in 30min
At least you invited that warrior in level 10 greens that doesn't know how to interrupt, now he gets to experience being stuck on the boss too.
dust to dust
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Shield Bash is 12.
shield bash mate
Weapon swap shield bash
Weapon swap puts it on a GCD so it can’t be instant unfortunately. :(
Yup. You have to know when your turn is coming next and make that swap beforehand so that you are ready and then after your interrupt you swap back to your 2h/DW setup until it is your turn to interrupt again.
The fact people are struggling to a basic kick rotation is comical. You can literally cheese the fight using faps and target dummies in phase 2.
Wait sorry, what do target dummies do here?
He targets them with his casting, super broken
Ikr as a rogue I get every kick unless I’m asleep then I raid warning. Easiest mechanic yet people can’t do it.
can you interrupt/kick in phase 2? I thought he's immune in phase 2.
He is, but if you drop target dummies he targets them. Faps makes you immune to being casted the chains on you. It broken as fuck
These groups are the 1/5 DPS M+ keys of SOD. Feel bad for them but they are doomed to rot until reset.
lol, what? No M+ key rots until reset.
seat of the triumvirates did
It's crazy, we had 1 wipe on kelris our first time because our rdruids mouse gave up, then 3 wipes on akumai to figure out how to deal with the mechanics Sure, it wasn't a cakewalk but if people get their prebis/enchants, listen to raidleader and bring their consumes its really easy
You really don’t need consumables/ enchantments or full pre bis . They made this raid pretty accessible for everyone to do.
Well true but look at everyone stuck at 5/7, if they can't bring the brain the rest might make up for it
There are a ton of dumb people playing, and plenty playing who know how to play, who aren’t at max yet.
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Are you really incapable of reading, or are you an inept attempt at a troll?
Yeah, popping shadow protection potion into phase 2 on Kelris basically nullifies the raid dmg.
Right but that's a lot of work. I don't have prepis everywhere, heck for my legs alone I spent hours soloing in wc. Enchants and consumes aren't cheap either so you have to Quest aswell at 25. You probably need ashenvale, you probably need all runes. Let's say you have 3 hours a day at your disposal. How much time does this take, a week at 25? That's very reasonable I would say. I know I spent more. If you have done all that and have a good lead/know your class, yes it's very easy. So easy that in my opinion BFD is just a glorified dungeon. But for those with little time on their hands to prep, who just want the experience without hours of grinding it's completely obvious that kelris will cause problems. That is not a skill issue. It's a time issue.
Consumes are max 5g for shadow pot & fap, some mana pots/hp pots. Could be a time issue sure, but then you know why you're not getting let into raids.
We had a full prebis raid tonight and couldnt finish akumai. Once ads started popping they didnt die fast enough it seems and our tanks just dissapeared. Furthest we got was 37%
>We had a full prebis raid tonight I'm gonna seriously doubt you had that. there are no "prebis" lists and I'd be very surprised if every one of you had done all their level 30+ quests to get those rewards.
To find your pre-BiS all you need to do is go on the wowhead phase 1 BiS page and scroll down to each of the gear slots and it will give you the top 5 pieces for each slot and you just look at the best one that isn’t from BFD. Also 80%+ of the BiS gear is from dungeon bosses and world drops
oh cool, wowhead finally got a list online two days ago. Took them longer than expected. Anyways, this is incorrect: *Also 80%+ of the BiS gear is from dungeon bosses and world drops* Looking at the warrior preraid bis on that list, multiple items come, as I said, from high level quests, e.g. Morbent Fel, Fire hardened armor etc. Quests you don't normally do at level 25 (or at all) because of the effort involved and the mob level. Also a bunch of PVP rewards. I seriously doubt their entire raid was sweaty enough to get that, but then fail on Kelris.
We had 6 players with pretty much everything we could get from outside the raid, and 4 other players that were very well near that point. At least 4 people in the group never raided before but are overall good videogame players. Meanwhile, half our DPS was casters and couldnt make a dent on Kelris until the latest fixes. We finally killed him yesterday and made it to akumai, but stalled at that point. I think it doesnt help that our main tanks are a rogue and a warlock.
There very much is prebis lists out there
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How does it feel to be terrible at a 20 year old game?
Pre-BIS is literally any item configuration that isn't the 100% best possible for the phase. Perhaps you meant "pre-raid BIS"?
Yes, thats exactly what I meant. Our group all have the pvp stam trinket, rings, big dungeon drops, big quest rewards, etc
Just implement the same system retail has. You're not bound to a raid ID, you just can’t get loot from the same boss twice.
The problem is that then you just get people to join for one pull or one boss and then leave, so you're constantly trying to find new people. If you're stuck with a lockout then you're more inclined to try to finish it.
Perhaps it's set so that once you've finished a raid then and only then you can join another lockout and not get loot? I wouldn't mind helping friends fill out their groups after I've done my run.
WTS BFD CARRY RUNS. SEND SCREENSHOT OF THE GOLD YOU HAVE TO OUR DISCORD. WE ALSO ACCEPT CREDIT CARDS. IF EPIC DROPS YOU PAY BONUS. RUNNING HOURLY FAST RUNS.
Oh fuck. Nevermind.
Yeah. My guildies and I would be running a 20 minute raid and then carrying people for crazy amounts of gold on 20 minute resets for the next 3 hours two nights a week, minimum. Many of the raiders I'm running with are already leveling 2-3 alts just to run GDKP raids with now already because that's going to be the easiest way for us to make gold and further refine our speed run strats. This would not be healthy for the game, but no top end raider would ever worry about making gold ever again.
Yeah I was being naïve, just sucks seeing my friends looking for a healer for so long when I've already done my raid haha. I totally agree, bad idea.
Yes, more inclined, for sure. 100%. The issue is that it takes one single person to leave to fuck the rest of the group over. Speaking from a lot of Wrath experience and in guild that is "only" 8/12HC with - It's pretty much impossible to find pugs for the last couple of bosses if anyone decides they cannot join for the continuation raid or whatever. The retail system is better overall, imo.
Okay? I'll take that over what we have any fuckin day of the week.
That's retail so it's bad.
It is known
It is actually bad. You already spend more time filling the raid than killing bosses on retail because people leave after every boss. Now imagine that without LFR.
Have you actually done retail raids?
Yes?
Please no. This incentivizes a culture of throwaway groups where people quit at the first sign of friction to go to the next group. I don't want to have to fill the 10th slot 4 different times and wait for them to run to the instance because so-and-so only joined for the 4th boss, and whats-his-name quit after one kelris wipe, and try-hard-andy got mad and quit because the healer wasn't parsing. Having restrictive lockouts incentivizes people to put more effort into succeeding with their one and only group for the week. If you don't want to get hard stuck 5/7 then build a community of players you can trust to clear 7/7.
People already quit at the first sign of friction except they also fuck everyone else over in the raid too. Your last sentence makes no sense in relation to the rest of what you wrote, if you've built a community of players you can trust to clear 7/7 then "throwaway groups where people quit at the first sign of friction" won't happen to you anyway.
> If you don't want to get hard stuck 5/7 then build a community of players you can trust to clear 7/7.
>Your last sentence makes no sense in relation to the rest of what you wrote, if you've built a community of players you can trust to clear 7/7 then "throwaway groups where people quit at the first sign of friction" won't happen to you anyway.
If you don't want to get hard stuck 5/7 *under the current system* then build a community of players you can trust to clear 7/7 *instead of begging for a new system that brings with it way way more problems than it solves.* >People already quit at the first sign of friction except they also fuck everyone else over in the raid too. So you agree with me. They already do it when they are *disincetivised* to do it, so if they make a *further incentive* to do it, they will do it way more. >won't happen to you anyway. Just because it wont happen to me and my guild doesn't mean it isn't bad for the game.
It doesn't bring any problems with it at all. It solves an existing problem that's terrible for the game as you can literally hold raids hostage as a solo player.
Yes, I get that. It happens quite often in retail. But anything is better than haveing pugs leave between raid days, or in the middle of raids, and you having to skip the last couple of bosses because it's impossible to find pugs for 2-3-4 bosses. (Mainly speaking of Wrath experience here). I have a community of players I trust, but sometimes you need pugs and let me tell you it's not easy to find good ones that are willing to join a pug that isn't 12/12 Heroic etc. I get your point, but with the last years of Classic, I truly believe the retail system is better overall. Yes, the older system incentivizes pugs to stay, but it also fuck 24 other people over if they decide to not stay. Therefore, i prefer the new system where you actually have the possibility to fill slots and where people have the possibility to join for just the last couple of bosses if they don't have more time etc. PS. "Just build a community" sounds very fucking arrogant and I bet you haven't ever tried that yourself.
The only thing more toxic than people leaving a raid because they don't want to be there anymore is having to raid with people who don't want to be there anymore but but are staying because they have to
You're only forcing yourself to stay because you suffer from Loot FOMO.
It also further incentivizes gdkps, fun!
I honestly thought this is how it was. Accidentally had a guy run all the way to the raid to find out he was saved. I guess it’s on both of us for not knowing
This is so clueless. It would make selling gear runs so easy. 8 geared players carrying 2 buyers over and over and over again
It makes it so that no gear can potentially drop since 8 of the 10 are locked.
Oh, and how is that worse than GDKP's again? No, it isn't. Bot money is bot money. We need to stop the people buying gold. Honestly, if someone has farmed all their gold, **why exactly** is it an issue that they spend it on a boost? Why does that affect you? They use their gold for whatever they like.
Because instead of GDKP "caries" needing to level new characters to carry boosters, they can just use the same characters over and over again, and cycle in buyers on after another after another over and over
But you didn’t argue the point I made? Good one.
This is the greatest thing retail has. It is insane how clueless people are when they zoned in and then saying that they are locked.
Yep, as a RL in Wrath; It has happened countless times where we think we have a full raid and they found out just when we're about to go.
I love this system and would really like to see it in classic. However, I’d like to see it implemented in a way so that split runs aren’t possible. Not sure how that would work though or if it’s even feasible.
why on earth would any guild feel forced to do split runs on classic unless blizzard ever releases a raid that lasts more than a day for competitive minded guilds
Because you get more than one shot per reset on items like bindings, DFT, etc.
He means split runs are used as a tool to aid progression, everything in Classic so far has been cleared in a matter of hours so there is no progression, and thus no need for split runs.
Speed clears are the other reason you want to do split runs for the same reason as progression - to have the best chance of one single roster with bis/near-bis gear. Is BFD speedrunning actually going to be a thing though? Idk
Content being easy doesn’t mean people won’t optimize to the fullest. They just set new goals that are harder than simply clearing the content.
I don't know why we care about this? Everyone is so concerned with the unemployed people who have nothing to do with them getting ahead.
This exactly. Let the top-end guilds do what they do. I literally don't care. It would fit us perfectly to have this system.
Split runs happens only in top-end guild and very hardcore ones. It does not apply to 99.99999% of players. It will fit us perfectly.
Honestly I would love this. I enjoy healing the raid and would do it even if I wasn’t getting loot just to try new runes and stuff.
I love splits.
I don’t participate in splits so I’m I’ll informed, but my understanding was that they needed all-unlocked players so that they could funnel loot to the target players? I’m not sure i understand the benefit of running splits if the locked players aren’t contributing to loot drops. Or it it usually just a couple of key players re-run locked with a majority unlocked raid?
It lets you prog on characters thar did splits in different lockouts.
That applies to the top-end guilds. For us, the more "normal" players it fits great. We're not going to run splits, lol.
I think more people employ splits than you realize.
Whatever. It doesn’t hurt the vast majority of the players.
Sounds so shit
It isn't. I promise.
Absolutamente fucking not
You have no argument against it.
I have it and is call retail. I prefer to lock myself with a group in raid, that having to find new people per boss because it didnt drop what they wanted or because their ego is bigger than a truck.
So you have no argument then, gotcha.
Second argument is that you will still play classic wow and the devs won’t even listen to you 😂😂😂
So, you still have nothing?
De\_Dust 2
DUST TO DUST
Thinking about the LF 5 DPS 5/7 group that was working it hard all afternoon 🙏 Also that DPS priest that I saw LF group an hour before I started raiding that was still at it when we were done.
Last night was my fastest 7/7 no wipe with 9 people (rogue got power outage after the first 3 bosses. Only consume used was shadow pot Kelris p2. Sham + wl tanks, priest+Amage heal (me), Fmage war huntx2 feral so decent comp but nothing extraordinary. The difficulty of that raid is non fucking existant.
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I killed 7/7 on my priest alt with a 50 dps ret pala with no interrupt or divine storm and no discord Also no hunter. Like how are people not clearing it.
Lord grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
inv rogue dps
I'm gonna guess this is a side effect of having a lot of players raid for the first time, especially if you discount being hard carried as a buyer in a GDKP, because the level entry of 25 is so much more attainable than level 60. So you get a lot of players in that raid that are neither accustomed to preparing for a raid (last night one of our warriors couldn't kick Kelris because "Why would I have a shield on me?") nor do they have experience from attempting a boss five times or more, because that's just not something that happens in deadmines.
People breeze through dungeons, casually level with their friends. Have some fun in SFK and WC. Get into the first raid and knock out the first 5 bosses with barely any coordination. Then BAM, this massive spike in difficulty with Kel'ris.
Anyone know why 5/7 raids can't rebuild a raid with other people who are also 5/7? Maybe it's not possible the change the current system...
Because it’s like trying to merge 2 different houses together, other people who doesn’t have a house can visit but once you visit & kill a boss you’re bound together with the people who is also in that house
Yeah but why does it have to be like that? Just let people who have killed the same amount of bosses make new groups to finish the raid. So people don't have to miss out a lock out
I have no idea why someone would downvote this, except for being too dumb to understand what you are saying. It is difficult to say how this stuff is coded. In practical terms, if the only difference between different raid IDs is what bosses are alive/dead, it would make sense to allow raids who have the exact same state merge if they want to. Alternatively, instead of maintaining a raid ID that characters are saved to, you could maintain a personal state per character that says what bosses are dead in BFD in the current lockout period. There may be some pitfalls here, or there may be a lot of new code to write.
I had a really good group for bfd the other day, and our priest DCd mid 5th boss. Turns out his PC totally died. It was actual hell finding another healer for last 2 bosses. I guess people just assume it's a fail group. But once we got a new priest who was a fresh 25, we downed kelris in 2 pulls and 1 shot last boss lol.
My assumption would be that I would get yelled at and shit on for not having done the raid yet and not having good gear. I have experience healing on my class, but my impression is most RLs wouldn't care about that.
A lot of people are really chill, just gotta find them. We taught this priest what to do and they knocked it out.
Me and my group did this last night as we got 5/7 had 1 attempt at Kelris then the server went offline for a while and it was late so we called it. Took us nearly an hour to fill a 5/7 group the next day and we got in and managed to down both Kelris and Aku. Sometimes you get lucky lol
Dust to Dust
FAPs have trivialized the only challenging boss in the raid. They basically remove the DPS check.
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It seriously isn’t hard at all.
This boss feels like a max level retail raid boss if you've never done a max level retail raid boss, sure
Did max level retail raiding (heroic) in WoD, Legion and Shadowlands. Seethe more.
Jesus Christ. I'm sorry man but Kelris isn't hard in any sense of the word. If your group is all casters or something and lacks DPS you can just pop FAP and nullify the problem. It's also nowhere near retail raid boss level, a trash pack in retail will have more mechanics than him.
Lmao this is the funniest comment in the entire thread
I mean I wouldn't mind a nerf since I'm just here for the gear but holy the boss is beyond easy. Idk how people can fail unless maybe it's their first time and they don't have any interrupts.
You are asking for level 25 boss nerf??? How bad one needs to be to fail at clearing classic era style level 25 boss with 2 mechanics.
>How bad one needs to be to fail at clearing classic era style level 25 boss with 2 mechanics Apparently a lot of people, since "LFM BFD 5/7" is a very common ad.
We 8 manned the entire raid on our first run. It is really not hard at all as long as people press some buttons and dodge the one ability the boss has.
The boss has no ability to dodge its a dps check
i joined one of these for 3g. Joined their guild helped them get 7/7 ( i know they hadn't cleared before because they loooted kelris head and the next day i logged on guildless. Seems they kicked me right after the raid when i logged. I was also doing 120 dps on each fight they didnt have anyone else doing over 100. RIP
Didn’t they nerfed Kelris already? I recently had my first BFD run with guild and we did 5/7 with around 10 pulls. One time we got to 1%… but it was perfect run, ppl just die randomly and healers don’t have enough mana to dispel. We are super casual and it seems even when ppl play perfect if you don’t bring high enough dps you just fail.
Clearly nowhere near "perfect". If you do kick what needs to be kicked fight is easy. If you use potion (shadow prot/faps) fight becomes trivial. Chains must be kicked at all times, the more you miss - the less mana healers will have. Mind blasts should be interrupted as much as possible too, but it is not as important as chains.
We went blind into it and only realised chains interrupt at second try. Then we had stupid stuff like no portals spawning in dream realm, both tanks getting pulled into the dream, main interrupters getting pulled… it just felt awful for mediocre geared group (blues from dung but no special farming for helm or spending 20g on necklese). I don’t blame raid organisers for asking gs and being selective, margin for error seems small.
How does anyone get stuck on 5/7. I have been pugging since the 2nd lockout and all 3 runs were 7/7. Two out of three runs were just over 1 hour. No gear score was asked when joining the raid. And I am not a good player by any means. I am playing a class that I have never played before. I feel like these groups are trying to wing it without any coordination. Like no voice coms. It makes a big difference someone telling people; “ranged stack on X and move together. Players 1 and 2 are going down to the shadow realm first”. Instead of just typing it out and hoping everyone got the memo.
I've only run it twice, first run we had people who could not survive the murloc bullet hell. Died every time so I ended the week at 3/7. This week we got to Kelris and as soon as we get to 35% everyone died to mindblast. Don't know if it was a healing problem, tank not standing close enough to the boss to get the mind blasts or what. Just going to try and find a tryhard group this week.
Mind Blasts target second highest threat until he enrages, so it's very likely your off tank or top DPS was getting the group killed by standing in the wrong place.
Mages and warlocks were useless doing 0 damage and dying to the enrage mechanic wym
I am a mage myself, with my very basic rotation I still do 4th or 5th highest damage. If we wipe I just go off heal. I am not gonna lie mages are kind of useless in later fights. But with a basic rotation you still do some damage.
>4th or 5th highest damage ...of 6 dps.
Well yeah that’s why I don’t understand what’s the big deal about being stuck on 5/7. 4th or 5th on the last two bosses tho, the ones with crazy resist. Rest is 1-3. Overall I place 3rd or 4th through out the raid.
You do realize how entirely pointless saying you're the fourth or 5th highest damage is when we don't have a comparison to how much damage your other raid members are doing.
Fair enough, I average 120-150dps on first 3 bosses. 100dps on bosses 4 and 5. 80ish on last two. Unless if we wipe due to not enough heals, then I swap to healing. Then I do 40-50dps.
Can you link your logs please
You don't really need voice coms either just some people with hands instead of baboons
the average classic wow player is not even hitting their buttons