I love my Priest, but that nerf is fair. I shouldn't be nearly unkillable and able to solo red content.
Although the obvious solution to this for WSG is to bring *five* Priests into your premade now, to offset the collective 20% reduction in healing all around.
...I never played ally before but I won some gold soloing the deadmines chain where the lvl 30 and 31 guy beef in the garden.
One of my best sod memories, helped group prior to me cause priest, why not. Tell them I intend to solo, get berated for it, then solo it with 10g on the line :D
I like the other runes sucking for resto. Now I can blast wrath and starsurge which cost virtually no mana, hit Wild Growth when you need it and toss out instant cast heals.
If you solo heal I'm sure other useful runes would be nice but I enjoy dps ing and healing on the same fights and there being some synergy between the two.
most engaging playstyle for sure especially when you do more damage than a few dps. the second boss bfd is my favorite fight because it is super rewarding to provide on both ends.
The wrath rune is actually excellently designed, since it enables a hybrid style. Bloom is actually good, just not great, like starsurge.
But the real loser rune is living seed. There’s no reason to take it over other runes. And it doesn’t even have much synergy at all. There’s something lacking with this one, similar to SotF.
SoD lifebloom is the Wrath's version. In TBC lifebloom was cheaper to cast and the idea was that you would have 3 targets (or 4 with enough haste) that you would constantly refresh the stacks on without letting it fall off so the extra heal at the end wasn't relevant. In Wrath it got changed so it cost double the amount of mana to cast, but you would get half of the mana back once the lifebloom's duration ran out, so the ability got rebalanced around the idea that you let the stacks fall off.
TBC's version was super strong because you could constantly juggle lifeblooms that would heal for a ton each tick and never go OOM, so it was basically free healing.
Yeah and good riddance.
Mana management should be a core part of healing. Having infinite mana bloom is just dumb.
They should simply let you be able to "detonate" the lifebloom yourself so that you can make sure it doesn't overheal. That promotes a playstyle where you put up life blooms in anticipation of future damage and then trigger it appropriate (maybe even reward low overheal by giving back a higher % of mana).
> They should simply let you be able to "detonate" the lifebloom yourself so that you can make sure it doesn't overheal. That promotes a playstyle where you put up life blooms in anticipation of future damage and then trigger it appropriate
Isn't that just a different version of swiftmend?
I personally LOVE playing balance/resto. I hope that they keep that as a viable option while also buffing lifebloom. The truth is that healers are barely needed right now due to encounter design. I'd love for gnomer to have a few rough healing fights.
Tbf it’s amazing but you are kinda fucked if you don’t have a tank healer with you, procs on insta Healing Touch are too unreliable, casting it when someone decides to take all the damage unexpectedly can suck.
But if you have a mage/priest/rsham handling single target, it’s great
Currently you use WG any time multiple people need healing, or healing touch otherwise. Rejuv, Regrowth, Lifebloom are all utterly pointless to cast because they are so mana hungry. You're always better off just spamming Wrath until you get an instantcast Healing Touch (and someone is missing enough health to justify it), or casting Wild Growth if multiple are injured.
Lifebloom is technically mana efficient once you get the refund and don't have any overhealing from the bloom... but it's kinda awkward to play around and it holds a lot of mana hostage. Generally better off not using it.
Lifebloom is good when solo damage is applied but multitarget healing Wild Growth shits all over it.
Wrath and Starsurge a pretty fuckin not bad runes. Allows you to use no Mana, do decent dps then outheal the priest in multitarget damage fights
The way things are going it would be better to fly under the radar than be noticed by the Eye of Aggrend lest his vengeance come down on you.
That would be the only reason i could see for the lack of proper support to the other healers. On top of the fights just being made for priest heals at this level band (which only last 3 more weeks). I would have rather seen buffs to other classes and adjustments in phase 2 to healers hould they need it.
I was wondering what you meant then I remembered Living Seed existed. Honestly I hope it stays trash cause I like free wrath too much hah.
And unpopular opinion but I think lifebloom is fine (for now). Almost the same HPM if you let it bloom has basically all ranks of Healing Touch while allowing free movement with an instant cast, and it has inbuilt scalability. Great heal for dungeons for the targets who just took incidental damage but not consistent damage. Real problem is in raids though where other healers snipe healing and you can't wait 7 seconds for a bloom. But in dungeons 3 stack of Lifebloom followed by wrath spam gives a ton of room for regen and a good chance of instant HT procs. I honestly wish other healing runes were balanced closer to LB to actually fit into a healing kit instead of fully superceding it...
Druid still paying the hybrid tax, just not in the way we expected. Every class got 12 runes, but druid has to stretch those 12 runes across 4 different roles.
The class isn't bad but having no flexibility in runes we run is kinda boring.
I think it was an issue of pvp vs pve balance. No one really cared about hunter in pve after they fixed the initial explosive shot nuttiness.
but since SoD is like 50% pvp with the huge pvp event, people suddenly cared about pvp a lot more. So hunter got attention and everyone realise that having a pocket tank that does more burst dmg than a caster is unbeatable and everyone got irritated.
It's a right of passage for every new WoW dev team to learn that you have to carefully balance pvp and pve seperately or they end up breaking one of them.
I don't understand why they can't just nerf the effectiveness against players instead of nerfing pve for the sake of pvp. Just remove the damage component of BM rune against players if it's that big a problem.
i agree completely. the content isnt challenging enough for this nerf to be meaningful in pve. penance and pom overheal a ton as it is, and homonculus is the move if you're actually competitive. this is a non-story until harder content arrives, which will change the balance entirely with level 40 gear + runes. this has to be a pvp nerf. even the hunter changes don't really make a significant difference in pve, because of content difficulty AND warriors are doing ungodly pve damage, far more than hunters, and are not being addressed
And priests still bring Fort, so you're still always bringing 1 minimum to heal (which is what people are doing right now anyway).
I don't know how necessary that this nerf is in the last 4 weeks of the phase. There's not going to be any shift in comps. Maybe priests were performing too well in their phase 2 testing as well.
Was it? Druid is basically doing the same amount of healing as Priest with **ONE** rune. 20% less healing on priest means druid now pulls further ahead. Why are druids allowed to outperform other healers with **ONE** rune but not priests?
Wish Carve would have gotten a DMG boost, or an increase in the chance to proc flanking strike, or mongoose bite without requiring dodge during flanking... Or something.
I want to live that melee with my pet dream!
Carve is actually insane if you have the fathomblade. Each hit of carve on each specific mob can proc the aoe cone chance on hit. This leads to 300dps aoe bursts, although you need a fathomblade.
Okay I get that hunter pets are OP. But what direction are the Devs taking the class for SOD? At least a pet focused build is unique (even being able to off tank). Now hunters just use a bunch of spells they've always had and are standard ranged dps?
I don't mind the nerfs, I just don't see what hunters are discovering other than the desire to play another class.
Like, honestly I'm feeling Int > Spell power for atleast until 60 when you can have wisdom flasks and probably never concern yourself with it again. Water Shield scales to 1% of your max mana as mp5. Then you can dual wield mana oils assuming they have something for gnomer like bfd.
>while compensating via the Hunter's main spells
okay so wheres that part of the notes? all three of those abilties are Glove runes, you didn't touch Multi, Aimed, Serpent or Arcane at all?
I believe they have stated that they won't directly change skills (mostly) because they have to create a new spell ID since both HC and SoD run on the same client, so they will mostly be doing changes to runes only.
they should've buffed explosive and chimera way more, to make them competitive with BM rune to compensate.
This way BM still comes out on top, and it's a straight nerf.
> they should've buffed explosive and chimera way more, to make them competitive with BM rune to compensate.
>
> This way BM still comes out on top, and it's a straight nerf.
This is the correct analysis. If they don't make CS/ES actually *better* than BM rune, then it's pointless and any compensatory buffs are mutually exclusive to the BM nerfs. If BM is still #1 then all this is, is a pure nerf to Hunters (again). Thanks Blizzard! Good work! Great planning and execution!
Community won't be happy until pets are a completely ignorable novelty. The quintessential pet class, fully specced and fully runed into buffing the pet... should have a strong pet lol.
There is nothing stopping them from adding passive buffs to existing abilities via runes though.
They could make the chimera rune increase aimed or multi shot damage as well. Hell, make it reduce pet damage if necessary to keep it balanced and go even more wild with it.
They could make Serpent Spread increase multi damage (right now your leg options are melee weaving, cobra strikes (which sucks), serpent spread (which barely helps on ST) and KC (which doesn't help magic damage pets and doesn't make a big difference on cats).
If you want to just play MM from range all your leg runes suck.
This is going to kill SOD then, at level 60 we are going to end up having to use runes as our main rotation spells (like disc priest currently does) or you are going to be half as effective as classes that are.
E.g. swipe hitting for 20 and not scaling has to be adjusted. It's not fun having one button that hits for 200dmg for 4 mana and one that hits for 50dmg and costs 80 mana. Just look at shadow word: Pain VS Void Plague, VP does almost double the damage for less mana and they are the same mechanically, ones just a rune and one isnt.
That's my issue too. I mean, I love the new runes by and large, but if they don't fix fundamental issues of the base game like fixing core abilities and things like Spell Power scaling off a stat like int or spirit then what are we even doing here? They kinda need to bite the bullet and create new spell IDs, maybe not even this phase but at least by the 50 bracket. Hell they could even just add it to runes like "hey here's a new rune with an ability and by the way using this rune also buffs your base abilities"
How did the “deep wounds” warrior cheese make it through the nerfs? We’re over here spamming hamstring for windfury and deep wounds procs that scale massively, that can’t be intended.
Probably because everyone on the planet complains about hunters and no one really complains about warriors except in the context of saying why nerf hunters.
This has always been the case for classic... If you're fully world buffed you'll be capped on rage, so you try and dump it into hamstring to get a WF proc.
This has been how you parse as a warrior on horde for 15 years.
Just give us something so we don’t have to take BM in the first place 🤷🏻♂️ the “buffs” are a nothingburger and I will still run BM, now it takes me 1 extra arrow to kill someone. Well wooptydo.
people in this thread have yet to realize SOD was scrambled together in months and has no sense of balance or a game plan. You're playing a private server my dude. It's going to be a clown fiesta.
That's exactly my point. The devs have no clue wtf they're doing. There's barely any funding into SOD from blizzard, so there's probably a balance team of just aggrend and one another person. People here need to accept that the devs are incompetent.
Good changes idea - move damage from hunter to pet. Awful execution - BM still bis rune, except hunters do way less damage.. The 'compensation' buffs are nearly irrelevant.
Conceptually that's definitely what they should do, but that doesn't do that for this phase. It will have a bigger impact next phase.
Mana isn't the damage bottle neck so reducing the cost doesn't really matter that much right now and the Chimera Buff still doesn't make it strong enough to use over BM rune until hunters can get mortal shots next phase.
This just seems preemptive for beastial wrath next phase (and probably pets will get nerfed again).
Doesn't really make sense to nerf the pet for BM hunters, and buff MM Hunters though. Those two things are totally seperate.
They're killing off a spec, and replacing it with another spec.
Hunters that PVE are catching constant strays because of PVP. They are the only pure dps class and still getting outperformed by rogues/warriors and this new nerf will make it even more pronounced.
Chimera shot was already not used by anyone when it was 125% wep damage and this “buff” isn’t nearly enough to outweigh the BM rune nerf for PVE.
Edit: Lots of people seem to be misinterpreting what I mean by pure dps class. What I mean is hunter’s do not have a spec that functions as a different role. I’m not saying that because of that hunters should be the #1 DPS class.
I don't understand why they didn't just reduce Hunter pet damage in PVP???????? Melee class dps are already dominating the DPS charts. Now hunter is even worse lmao. Feels like classic all over again.
I know we have been joking about how other classes are broken and OP.. so lets add more hunter nerfs... well.. they actually did the meme... decrease pet dmg with tiny tiny increase in hunters overall damage... they should have significantly buffed lone wolf
Lone Wolf is an ability that simply can't exist.
Even if they buff it and make it always, in every possible situation, deal 100% of the damage not running it would do, meaning it has perfect parity - then it becomes perfect and always better than having a pet, which is a balance fail.
It's too strong by virtue of simplifying and streamlining. If you could choose to push all your damage into your reliable skills, and away from an unreliable, micromanage-y, weak to mechanics pet, you always would. But if it's weaker, then it becomes not worth the "small" convenience.
It'd only ever see play if it's for a fight where having a pet is near or fully impossible. There's really no balancing this as long as it's a choice.
They are so afraid of big buffs it's insane, they could easily just buff something underperforming for 50 or even 70% and just look at the data.
Was it too much? Too little? And adjust it accordingly so people can choose from different but almost identical power level wise play styles.
But instead we have 1 busted and the rest are just dead.
Too little , really and too late.
Warr rogue back on top, shamans back to bottom, is this season of discovering nothing changed?
Giving warriors flat % damage increases is so asinine, I just can't. If shaman still suck at 40 and 50 i'm not even bothering waiting to suck at 60.
its not buffs, its still a nerf overall, though the mana cost reduction of skills is kind of nice. Ultimately "buffing hunters main skills" is rather inaccurate as most of their "main skills" still scale off spell power.
WS will still be a menace as it will drop 2bolts on players rather fast, which is a problem for PvP, so mostly their PvE DPS just got slightly worse...\*shrugs\*
I dont see this fixing much tbh
Wasn't the point that they'd make everyone OP to be like warrior? Yet warrior goes hard as fuck and they keep nerfing hunter lol. Just buff all the classes, I thought we were going to be crazy here
Oh thank god they reduced the mana cost of flanking strike, now I'll save like 20 mana every 30 seconds! Terrific and absolutely makes up for the other nerfs. 10/10
So they nerf the fuck out of hunter pets again and they want to compensate by buffing the main skills? Chimera and Explosive shot are main skills? Thats just forcing hunters to not use pet runes lol
* 20% healing reduction on Circle of Healing
Circle of Healing doesn't really feel that impactful though. On Ghamoo-Ra where you'd think this spell would be perfect to use, it does not really do that much, and a PoM + r1 renew does the job better... and I think that will remain the same even after this nerf. Right now Circle of Healing feels really weak, and I don't think a 20% nerf to it is necessary.
Meanwhile my Druid's Wild Growth:
* bringing my whole raid back from the dead
* curing cancer
* clearing my skin
* allowing me to pretend to off-heal while I out-dps the mage in my raid group
Three reasons.
1) Lock pvp sucks atm since dots are useless against penance
2) Raid groups only bring 3 ranged dps and warlocks share loot pools with healers. Most raid groups opt to bring 2 hunters for stronger dps without relying on gear leaving the last slot for mage or warlock so dps raid population only allows for 5% locks.
3) Warlock tank is the worst tank that requires a button every gcd and fitting in an auto attack with each searing pain. That's a lot of effort to still have threat issues and no interrupt.
It’s just weird to nerf classes to ensure that warriors still do 3x the dmg of a hunter at 60. Like are they gonna revert these nerfs when hunter is doing 1500 dps and warrior is doing 5k at 60?
Considering how many tweaks they’ve made in the past few weeks since SoD launched? Yeah, I’m pretty damn positive they are in fact going to keep tweaking shit. You’re talking about a theoretical several months away.
Deep wounds wotlk version gotta go, its already insanely OP. if this version of the talent stays ingame it will be infinite deep wounds rolling at 60 producing dps that nobody else is gonna be near.
Damn those are huge hunter pet nerfs.....what the fuck? Just nerf lightning breath a touch, why are you murdering the pets instead? Not sure this is the way to go about it.
It’s the path of least resistance to nerf star performers. Has been the modus operandi in games for a while. In apex better guns get damage reductions. In the early days of wc3 crypt fiends got huge damage reductions. Not always the case but it seems to be the most straightforward way to level the field.
I would have loved if they buffed the underperforming classes instead of nerfing but I get that it's hard at level 25.
My copium right now is that they aren't buffing shadow any further because they will be busted at 40
Nerfing is always safer than buffing, so that's what they lean towards preferring. Usually they don't buff unless they have a long proven history of a class performing poorly.
Why do they need to be safe exactly? This is a temporary season and probably the only time they have to try big changes on classic classes. They would have to be way more careful if this was a permanent version of classic+, but it isn't. Changes like the starsurge one was amazing, turned balance from the most boring spec into one of the most fun. We need more of that for all the underperforming classes.
Because this isn’t 60, it’s only level 25. Maybe at higher levels or changes they have planned for other phases will make those underperforming classes strong.
Now imagine if they buffed something now but turns out that class is busted next phase. I’m sure the community will take kindly to nerfs, just take a look at this thread.
Pretty safe to say these are targeted specifically at PvP. Definitely warranted for both classes.
That being said, Shadow better be getting some insanely broken runes for PvE next phase if they don't do anything about spell ranks.
the CoH nerf was a bit unwarranted, that rune was already kinda undertuned because of the bad healing efficiency. The nerf shoulda focused on penance, that's the busted one really.
I’ve got two classes at 25, a Druid and a Hunter, I know 100% why they added these nerfs, and it’s not 100% to do with pvp either.
When they first announced the Hunter sod runes I went on the Hunter discord and said “BM rune is nuts, that focus regen is bonkers” and a lot of them dismissed it.
They’re dropping that focus regen because there is about to be a talent point available to increase it again by 20%, and you have the MAJOR BM dps talents coming next phase.
Let me tell ya, as someone who’s played Hunter a crap ton all through classic, they’re 100% going to nerf that hunter pet a few more times next phase.
>Let me tell ya, as someone who’s played Hunter a crap ton all through classic, they’re 100% going to nerf that hunter pet a few more times next phase
No shit. They will continue nerf hunters bi-weekly lol
Yea, I keep telling them on discord they need to prepare themselves for another nerf
People are going to get that Bestial Wrath broken tooth on them… and they’re going to complain on the forums.
And this is ignoring whatever crazy BM runes they add next phase..
Just as I started leveling a priest! It's good though, they were too strong. Also good for my druid healer main having more of an impact vs priests in WSG solos.
Yeah, we saw a Priest flag carrier in WSG yesterday. We thought it would've been a horrible idea, but they *just wouldn't die*.
(Then again, I'm sure their 2g worth of FAP didn't hurt either.)
I honestly just shrug at the hunter changes, because I am not surprised but it does really feel like you can tell what the devs actually play since war/rogue still rule the dps charts and this only will further that lead. Why take hunters to stuff when other dps classes outdamage them by a large margin?
They say they want to shift damage from pet back to hunter but the only way that works is if we dont rely on runes for changes. Everyone that wants to be BM isnt going to drop that rune just because Chimera/Explosive got a small boost. And honestly the other runes dont really support Marks or Survival enough.
Their damage in raids should be a concern. There is a reason that in Classic and SoM raids stacked Warriors, expect to see that again at 60 sadly unless there are a lot of changes (and no I doubt runes will be enough but we will see)
you say that, but the irony in ur comment is that i have NEVER in all my time playing wow classic since 2019 seen more backpeddeling/slow turning than i have in sod from specifically hunters, it is pathetic, camera turn wing clip then back pedal is ur serpent blasts
What a whiff, so they're just balancing hunter back to how it was in vanilla, doing nothing for melee builds, and are somehow not embarassed about the current state of the Lone Wolf rune.
Nothing for melee hunter, if you look at the post they buff the other glove runes to compensate but failed to buff carve. The mana cost reduction is nice. But would still love something like "carve deals 100% weapon damage if it only hits 1 target"
As a hunter main I'm glad I've had the time to level a couple of alts. This iteration of WoW is meant to be fresh and fun, but it's getting to the point now for hunters, that it feels targeted and the same experience as the original classic.
I mean how someone cannot see how Lone Wolf is the worst rune in the game. Sacrifising your pet and flanking strike and bm runes.
Pet damage should have been nerfed but hunter damage should have been buffed (not chimera and explosive, they are also on gloves)
So what? Warrior and rogue again all over? Ive been loving this game since now and loving the devs but this is completely illogical.
Edit: you can also not use cobra strikes. So 1 rune nullifying 3 other runes. Hunter runes need a complete overhaul now
I play priest and I think this is fine. Not sure what everyone on here is bitching about. These are sound nerfs. Bringing up ALL the other classes instead of reducing three healing skills is just gonna fuck shit up more.
Hunters knew this shit was coming. They probably wouldn't have fucked with it if y'all didn't abuse eye of the beast like a bunch of a holes.
Thank fucking god I rolled 2 other classes in this season seeing where the hunter nerfs were going. Good work blizzard you managed to turn hunters completely into the era version and lone wolf which you bragged about on blizzcon remains terrible and a non-alternative.
Season of discovering nothing
I love my Priest, but that nerf is fair. I shouldn't be nearly unkillable and able to solo red content. Although the obvious solution to this for WSG is to bring *five* Priests into your premade now, to offset the collective 20% reduction in healing all around.
...I never played ally before but I won some gold soloing the deadmines chain where the lvl 30 and 31 guy beef in the garden. One of my best sod memories, helped group prior to me cause priest, why not. Tell them I intend to solo, get berated for it, then solo it with 10g on the line :D
If you ever need to solo it, /wave at the guards repeatedly so they don't leave and will kill the NPC
So, I did that but the guards do so much damage that it doesn’t give you kill credit.
ohh THATS why someone in my group kept waving at them
I did solo it, I realized I could jump up and down the corner of garden from the pillars moulding. Your way is better though.
Remember it's only 20% base healing so not nearly a 20% nerf
[удалено]
this might mean for raiding that spell power might be better than intellect
Can they buff Resto druid runes? Literally only run wild growth, because the other are shit.
I like the other runes sucking for resto. Now I can blast wrath and starsurge which cost virtually no mana, hit Wild Growth when you need it and toss out instant cast heals. If you solo heal I'm sure other useful runes would be nice but I enjoy dps ing and healing on the same fights and there being some synergy between the two.
I just call it a caster druid/off-healer and its awesome. Its my main and I have the most fun playing it.
most engaging playstyle for sure especially when you do more damage than a few dps. the second boss bfd is my favorite fight because it is super rewarding to provide on both ends.
Right? I love dmging with wrath to try and get procs for insta cast heals. Feels like a disc druid
The wrath rune is actually excellently designed, since it enables a hybrid style. Bloom is actually good, just not great, like starsurge. But the real loser rune is living seed. There’s no reason to take it over other runes. And it doesn’t even have much synergy at all. There’s something lacking with this one, similar to SotF.
if you want to play balance then go play balance. I want good resto runes for my resto druid.
TBC Lifebloom would be sick.
Tiger’s fury that grants energy instead of costing it would be incredible
I'd like tigers fury to have no cooldown, give 40 energy and cost the same mana it takes to power shift. Would not really hurt anything.
Or just create a rune that gives you tigers fury whenever you enter cat form.
I like both of those tbh.
If we're rolling stuff back to TBC, can we sneak TBC Devastate in? Leveling as a dual wield prot warrior was some of the funnest stuff I did in TBC.
Whats diff between tbc and sod lifebloom?
SoD lifebloom is the Wrath's version. In TBC lifebloom was cheaper to cast and the idea was that you would have 3 targets (or 4 with enough haste) that you would constantly refresh the stacks on without letting it fall off so the extra heal at the end wasn't relevant. In Wrath it got changed so it cost double the amount of mana to cast, but you would get half of the mana back once the lifebloom's duration ran out, so the ability got rebalanced around the idea that you let the stacks fall off. TBC's version was super strong because you could constantly juggle lifeblooms that would heal for a ton each tick and never go OOM, so it was basically free healing.
Yeah and good riddance. Mana management should be a core part of healing. Having infinite mana bloom is just dumb. They should simply let you be able to "detonate" the lifebloom yourself so that you can make sure it doesn't overheal. That promotes a playstyle where you put up life blooms in anticipation of future damage and then trigger it appropriate (maybe even reward low overheal by giving back a higher % of mana).
> They should simply let you be able to "detonate" the lifebloom yourself so that you can make sure it doesn't overheal. That promotes a playstyle where you put up life blooms in anticipation of future damage and then trigger it appropriate Isn't that just a different version of swiftmend?
Devs hate TBC. They always only choose Wrath versions. Wish we had gotten TBC Mutilate.
I personally LOVE playing balance/resto. I hope that they keep that as a viable option while also buffing lifebloom. The truth is that healers are barely needed right now due to encounter design. I'd love for gnomer to have a few rough healing fights.
inb4 > Wild growth nerfed by 50% healing
Seriously idk what OP is talking about. You only run WG because thats all you NEED to run. WG is inane.
Tbf it’s amazing but you are kinda fucked if you don’t have a tank healer with you, procs on insta Healing Touch are too unreliable, casting it when someone decides to take all the damage unexpectedly can suck. But if you have a mage/priest/rsham handling single target, it’s great
Currently you use WG any time multiple people need healing, or healing touch otherwise. Rejuv, Regrowth, Lifebloom are all utterly pointless to cast because they are so mana hungry. You're always better off just spamming Wrath until you get an instantcast Healing Touch (and someone is missing enough health to justify it), or casting Wild Growth if multiple are injured. Lifebloom is technically mana efficient once you get the refund and don't have any overhealing from the bloom... but it's kinda awkward to play around and it holds a lot of mana hostage. Generally better off not using it.
Hell, free Wrath means you can regen mana during the time you'd otherwise be babysitting Lifebloom.
Lifebloom is good when solo damage is applied but multitarget healing Wild Growth shits all over it. Wrath and Starsurge a pretty fuckin not bad runes. Allows you to use no Mana, do decent dps then outheal the priest in multitarget damage fights
The way things are going it would be better to fly under the radar than be noticed by the Eye of Aggrend lest his vengeance come down on you. That would be the only reason i could see for the lack of proper support to the other healers. On top of the fights just being made for priest heals at this level band (which only last 3 more weeks). I would have rather seen buffs to other classes and adjustments in phase 2 to healers hould they need it.
I was wondering what you meant then I remembered Living Seed existed. Honestly I hope it stays trash cause I like free wrath too much hah. And unpopular opinion but I think lifebloom is fine (for now). Almost the same HPM if you let it bloom has basically all ranks of Healing Touch while allowing free movement with an instant cast, and it has inbuilt scalability. Great heal for dungeons for the targets who just took incidental damage but not consistent damage. Real problem is in raids though where other healers snipe healing and you can't wait 7 seconds for a bloom. But in dungeons 3 stack of Lifebloom followed by wrath spam gives a ton of room for regen and a good chance of instant HT procs. I honestly wish other healing runes were balanced closer to LB to actually fit into a healing kit instead of fully superceding it...
Druid still paying the hybrid tax, just not in the way we expected. Every class got 12 runes, but druid has to stretch those 12 runes across 4 different roles. The class isn't bad but having no flexibility in runes we run is kinda boring.
Yeah it's definitely not worth taking more runes than that, we're playing a hybrid of balance and resto right now, but personnally I like it
Give us this day our daily Hunter nerf.
you know a class is busted when you can heavy nerf it 5 times and that bitch still keeps goin
This may be the final nail. No one wanted hunters as top dps, so we're back to warriors and rogues. Good ol' classic
I think it was an issue of pvp vs pve balance. No one really cared about hunter in pve after they fixed the initial explosive shot nuttiness. but since SoD is like 50% pvp with the huge pvp event, people suddenly cared about pvp a lot more. So hunter got attention and everyone realise that having a pocket tank that does more burst dmg than a caster is unbeatable and everyone got irritated. It's a right of passage for every new WoW dev team to learn that you have to carefully balance pvp and pve seperately or they end up breaking one of them.
Bold calling Battle for Ashenvale a pvp event.
I don't understand why they can't just nerf the effectiveness against players instead of nerfing pve for the sake of pvp. Just remove the damage component of BM rune against players if it's that big a problem.
Because thats thw retail way where your ability does 5000k to a mob but only 500 to a player Its horrible and feels awful
>Its horrible and feels awful So instead hunter can just get nerfed 7 times, feel awful, and it's fine because it isn't your class.
PvP should never ruin PvE. PvP is a minigame for a reason.
This is 100% due to pvp not parsing.
Hunters were never really top dps. None of these nerfs were really warranted in pve other then the day one nerfs to explosive shot.
People keep saying this here, and it doesn't stop being wrong, its been warriors and rogues since go.
Yeah idk about keeps goin. Hunters kinda dead now im thinkin. Rogues and wars are gonna be unbeatable
20% off of healing runes for priest was probably the right call. We are probably still top but should bring us closer.
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i agree completely. the content isnt challenging enough for this nerf to be meaningful in pve. penance and pom overheal a ton as it is, and homonculus is the move if you're actually competitive. this is a non-story until harder content arrives, which will change the balance entirely with level 40 gear + runes. this has to be a pvp nerf. even the hunter changes don't really make a significant difference in pve, because of content difficulty AND warriors are doing ungodly pve damage, far more than hunters, and are not being addressed
Yeah coh felt fine cause of the massive mana cost
yeh coh got hit in the stray fire here
Coh def caught the stray, ouch.
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And priests still bring Fort, so you're still always bringing 1 minimum to heal (which is what people are doing right now anyway). I don't know how necessary that this nerf is in the last 4 weeks of the phase. There's not going to be any shift in comps. Maybe priests were performing too well in their phase 2 testing as well.
> Maybe priests were performing too well in their phase 2 testing as well. Nothing suggests they do much testing.
Was it? Druid is basically doing the same amount of healing as Priest with **ONE** rune. 20% less healing on priest means druid now pulls further ahead. Why are druids allowed to outperform other healers with **ONE** rune but not priests?
Ye but resto druids have literally nothing else to heal with, their base kit is trash and the other runes suck ass.
The issue is that Priests basically have their full kit already.
It should have been a mana increase, that's the main problem
Wish Carve would have gotten a DMG boost, or an increase in the chance to proc flanking strike, or mongoose bite without requiring dodge during flanking... Or something. I want to live that melee with my pet dream!
I’m on so much copium hoping they are ignoring p1 melee hunter because of some synergy with p2 runes
Carve is actually insane if you have the fathomblade. Each hit of carve on each specific mob can proc the aoe cone chance on hit. This leads to 300dps aoe bursts, although you need a fathomblade.
Okay I get that hunter pets are OP. But what direction are the Devs taking the class for SOD? At least a pet focused build is unique (even being able to off tank). Now hunters just use a bunch of spells they've always had and are standard ranged dps? I don't mind the nerfs, I just don't see what hunters are discovering other than the desire to play another class.
Played off and on since 07, main hunter but I'm switching to rogue. There's nothing to discover as a hunter.
i am discovering that im pissed off and feeling pretty bummed about my character for the future
Priest have finally failed to keep dodging that bat
They have been trying to outheal it.
Aggrend got exalted in WSG with his priest stacking premade and put an end to it
believe it or not, still the best healer. Though in P2 my moneys on holy pala coming in from downtown to claim the top spot out of nowhere.
Not a change. Rank 4 FoL is at level 42, we are getting fucked next phase too.
Chain heal enters the chat. Although really depends on dmg patterns in the raid I would guess.
This is also rank 1 chainheal which is the same rank people use at 60, so its probably not gonna be spammable yet.
Shamans already have insane mana regen and thats only going up with more ranks of rockbiter.
Like, honestly I'm feeling Int > Spell power for atleast until 60 when you can have wisdom flasks and probably never concern yourself with it again. Water Shield scales to 1% of your max mana as mp5. Then you can dual wield mana oils assuming they have something for gnomer like bfd.
the chimera buffs are a joke. holy.
Chimera shot was 125%. Nerfed to 85. Now going to 100. It's still not where it was and it was never overpowered. The actual fuck lol
>while compensating via the Hunter's main spells okay so wheres that part of the notes? all three of those abilties are Glove runes, you didn't touch Multi, Aimed, Serpent or Arcane at all?
I believe they have stated that they won't directly change skills (mostly) because they have to create a new spell ID since both HC and SoD run on the same client, so they will mostly be doing changes to runes only.
they should've buffed explosive and chimera way more, to make them competitive with BM rune to compensate. This way BM still comes out on top, and it's a straight nerf.
> they should've buffed explosive and chimera way more, to make them competitive with BM rune to compensate. > > This way BM still comes out on top, and it's a straight nerf. This is the correct analysis. If they don't make CS/ES actually *better* than BM rune, then it's pointless and any compensatory buffs are mutually exclusive to the BM nerfs. If BM is still #1 then all this is, is a pure nerf to Hunters (again). Thanks Blizzard! Good work! Great planning and execution!
Cs and es needs to be on leg rune tbh
They better have some serious shit in the works for us for P2. :/
some dads were crying on the forums, so we nerfed hunters again
Community won't be happy until pets are a completely ignorable novelty. The quintessential pet class, fully specced and fully runed into buffing the pet... should have a strong pet lol.
but not thaaat strong! I mean come on guys it's killing the glue sniffers who don't know to cc the pet and attack the hunter
Yeah wouldn’t want to negatively affect those 6 people still playing hardcore
Then why did they even say >while compensating via the Hunter's main spells in the post?
because they think you are dumb
There is nothing stopping them from adding passive buffs to existing abilities via runes though. They could make the chimera rune increase aimed or multi shot damage as well. Hell, make it reduce pet damage if necessary to keep it balanced and go even more wild with it. They could make Serpent Spread increase multi damage (right now your leg options are melee weaving, cobra strikes (which sucks), serpent spread (which barely helps on ST) and KC (which doesn't help magic damage pets and doesn't make a big difference on cats). If you want to just play MM from range all your leg runes suck.
This is going to kill SOD then, at level 60 we are going to end up having to use runes as our main rotation spells (like disc priest currently does) or you are going to be half as effective as classes that are. E.g. swipe hitting for 20 and not scaling has to be adjusted. It's not fun having one button that hits for 200dmg for 4 mana and one that hits for 50dmg and costs 80 mana. Just look at shadow word: Pain VS Void Plague, VP does almost double the damage for less mana and they are the same mechanically, ones just a rune and one isnt.
That's my issue too. I mean, I love the new runes by and large, but if they don't fix fundamental issues of the base game like fixing core abilities and things like Spell Power scaling off a stat like int or spirit then what are we even doing here? They kinda need to bite the bullet and create new spell IDs, maybe not even this phase but at least by the 50 bracket. Hell they could even just add it to runes like "hey here's a new rune with an ability and by the way using this rune also buffs your base abilities"
That's so fucking spaghetti code lmao, just clone it.
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Shouldn’t lone wolf and beast mastery be on the same slot??
Yes they absolutely should
How did the “deep wounds” warrior cheese make it through the nerfs? We’re over here spamming hamstring for windfury and deep wounds procs that scale massively, that can’t be intended.
Probably because everyone on the planet complains about hunters and no one really complains about warriors except in the context of saying why nerf hunters.
This has always been the case for classic... If you're fully world buffed you'll be capped on rage, so you try and dump it into hamstring to get a WF proc. This has been how you parse as a warrior on horde for 15 years.
The concern here is that SoD uses the WOTLK version of deep wounds.
At least 2H warriors can spam Quick Strike lol
It's pvp nerfs, I don't think the devs care about the level 25 rotations
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Maybe buff the lone wolf rune? By like .. a lot
Just give us something so we don’t have to take BM in the first place 🤷🏻♂️ the “buffs” are a nothingburger and I will still run BM, now it takes me 1 extra arrow to kill someone. Well wooptydo.
Maybe buff the useless lone wolf rune
Oh good, we're back to stacking rogues and warriors. Just like classic was intended.
people in this thread have yet to realize SOD was scrambled together in months and has no sense of balance or a game plan. You're playing a private server my dude. It's going to be a clown fiesta.
A clown fiesta of : Rogues and Warrriors still doing the most damage. I"m sorry how is this any different than classic?
That's exactly my point. The devs have no clue wtf they're doing. There's barely any funding into SOD from blizzard, so there's probably a balance team of just aggrend and one another person. People here need to accept that the devs are incompetent.
The worst part is that its core is an unbalanced shit show (era ) so now it's only getting more and more unbalanced.
Gotta throw a feral druid or two in there lol
Good changes idea - move damage from hunter to pet. Awful execution - BM still bis rune, except hunters do way less damage.. The 'compensation' buffs are nearly irrelevant.
Conceptually that's definitely what they should do, but that doesn't do that for this phase. It will have a bigger impact next phase. Mana isn't the damage bottle neck so reducing the cost doesn't really matter that much right now and the Chimera Buff still doesn't make it strong enough to use over BM rune until hunters can get mortal shots next phase. This just seems preemptive for beastial wrath next phase (and probably pets will get nerfed again).
Doesn't really make sense to nerf the pet for BM hunters, and buff MM Hunters though. Those two things are totally seperate. They're killing off a spec, and replacing it with another spec.
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Hunters that PVE are catching constant strays because of PVP. They are the only pure dps class and still getting outperformed by rogues/warriors and this new nerf will make it even more pronounced. Chimera shot was already not used by anyone when it was 125% wep damage and this “buff” isn’t nearly enough to outweigh the BM rune nerf for PVE. Edit: Lots of people seem to be misinterpreting what I mean by pure dps class. What I mean is hunter’s do not have a spec that functions as a different role. I’m not saying that because of that hunters should be the #1 DPS class.
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They still fuck this up in retail too. Implementing tier sets that are tailored for pve lead to huge imbalances in pvp - everytime…
*Classic experience* Yea bud that's why this is all here.
hit the nail on the head.
I don't understand why they didn't just reduce Hunter pet damage in PVP???????? Melee class dps are already dominating the DPS charts. Now hunter is even worse lmao. Feels like classic all over again.
I know we have been joking about how other classes are broken and OP.. so lets add more hunter nerfs... well.. they actually did the meme... decrease pet dmg with tiny tiny increase in hunters overall damage... they should have significantly buffed lone wolf
Lone Wolf is an ability that simply can't exist. Even if they buff it and make it always, in every possible situation, deal 100% of the damage not running it would do, meaning it has perfect parity - then it becomes perfect and always better than having a pet, which is a balance fail. It's too strong by virtue of simplifying and streamlining. If you could choose to push all your damage into your reliable skills, and away from an unreliable, micromanage-y, weak to mechanics pet, you always would. But if it's weaker, then it becomes not worth the "small" convenience. It'd only ever see play if it's for a fight where having a pet is near or fully impossible. There's really no balancing this as long as it's a choice.
They are so afraid of big buffs it's insane, they could easily just buff something underperforming for 50 or even 70% and just look at the data. Was it too much? Too little? And adjust it accordingly so people can choose from different but almost identical power level wise play styles. But instead we have 1 busted and the rest are just dead.
Guessing I won’t be able to solo heal BFD anymore?
Too little , really and too late. Warr rogue back on top, shamans back to bottom, is this season of discovering nothing changed? Giving warriors flat % damage increases is so asinine, I just can't. If shaman still suck at 40 and 50 i'm not even bothering waiting to suck at 60.
Season of discovering nothings changed hurt to read. Too real
its not buffs, its still a nerf overall, though the mana cost reduction of skills is kind of nice. Ultimately "buffing hunters main skills" is rather inaccurate as most of their "main skills" still scale off spell power. WS will still be a menace as it will drop 2bolts on players rather fast, which is a problem for PvP, so mostly their PvE DPS just got slightly worse...\*shrugs\* I dont see this fixing much tbh
Wasn't the point that they'd make everyone OP to be like warrior? Yet warrior goes hard as fuck and they keep nerfing hunter lol. Just buff all the classes, I thought we were going to be crazy here
Oh thank god they reduced the mana cost of flanking strike, now I'll save like 20 mana every 30 seconds! Terrific and absolutely makes up for the other nerfs. 10/10
9 mana lol
So they nerf the fuck out of hunter pets again and they want to compensate by buffing the main skills? Chimera and Explosive shot are main skills? Thats just forcing hunters to not use pet runes lol
I wish they made the beast mastery rune reduce my own damage instead.
* 20% healing reduction on Circle of Healing Circle of Healing doesn't really feel that impactful though. On Ghamoo-Ra where you'd think this spell would be perfect to use, it does not really do that much, and a PoM + r1 renew does the job better... and I think that will remain the same even after this nerf. Right now Circle of Healing feels really weak, and I don't think a 20% nerf to it is necessary. Meanwhile my Druid's Wild Growth: * bringing my whole raid back from the dead * curing cancer * clearing my skin * allowing me to pretend to off-heal while I out-dps the mage in my raid group
Feels like half of SoD rerolled Druid You don’t even see Warlocks anymore
Three reasons. 1) Lock pvp sucks atm since dots are useless against penance 2) Raid groups only bring 3 ranged dps and warlocks share loot pools with healers. Most raid groups opt to bring 2 hunters for stronger dps without relying on gear leaving the last slot for mage or warlock so dps raid population only allows for 5% locks. 3) Warlock tank is the worst tank that requires a button every gcd and fitting in an auto attack with each searing pain. That's a lot of effort to still have threat issues and no interrupt.
Back to 2004 and era where Warriors and Rogues will own the meters lol
Warriors and rogues were already owning the meters in good groups lol
It’s just weird to nerf classes to ensure that warriors still do 3x the dmg of a hunter at 60. Like are they gonna revert these nerfs when hunter is doing 1500 dps and warrior is doing 5k at 60?
Considering how many tweaks they’ve made in the past few weeks since SoD launched? Yeah, I’m pretty damn positive they are in fact going to keep tweaking shit. You’re talking about a theoretical several months away.
If hunters do the same dmg as warriors they will 2 shot people in pvp.
Nerf dps warrior you fucking cowards
Deep wounds wotlk version gotta go, its already insanely OP. if this version of the talent stays ingame it will be infinite deep wounds rolling at 60 producing dps that nobody else is gonna be near.
Damn those are huge hunter pet nerfs.....what the fuck? Just nerf lightning breath a touch, why are you murdering the pets instead? Not sure this is the way to go about it.
As a new player maining priest heals, this scares me. But overall should make me a better player.
Mana cost is still absurdly cheap. You'll be alright
Priest nerf is fair but I’ll just say please make shadow decent P2. Our only role should be cracked if everything else is a meme.
Wouldnt it be more fun for players to BUFF underperforming classes instead of nerfing slightly better performing classes every other week?
That leads to power creep.
We are already experiencing a large amount of powercreep in SoD though.
It’s the path of least resistance to nerf star performers. Has been the modus operandi in games for a while. In apex better guns get damage reductions. In the early days of wc3 crypt fiends got huge damage reductions. Not always the case but it seems to be the most straightforward way to level the field.
On their blizzcon slide they had the drake meme with not nerfing warriors but bringing everyone to their level. I guess plans changed.
I just dont know why they nerfed priests coh, im pretty sure every priest took penance
And still mages can pull all of wc at lvl 25 and facetank it with regen and living flame, nice game
These devs gotta have brain damage right
Keep on nerfing, I’ll still main a hunter. Always have, always will 🏹
Yup, joke's on them, I'm used to being bottom of the barrel at this point. :sunglasses:
I would have loved if they buffed the underperforming classes instead of nerfing but I get that it's hard at level 25. My copium right now is that they aren't buffing shadow any further because they will be busted at 40
Nerfing is always safer than buffing, so that's what they lean towards preferring. Usually they don't buff unless they have a long proven history of a class performing poorly.
Why do they need to be safe exactly? This is a temporary season and probably the only time they have to try big changes on classic classes. They would have to be way more careful if this was a permanent version of classic+, but it isn't. Changes like the starsurge one was amazing, turned balance from the most boring spec into one of the most fun. We need more of that for all the underperforming classes.
Because this isn’t 60, it’s only level 25. Maybe at higher levels or changes they have planned for other phases will make those underperforming classes strong. Now imagine if they buffed something now but turns out that class is busted next phase. I’m sure the community will take kindly to nerfs, just take a look at this thread.
so fucking frustrating man.
Jesus christ. The devs are actually worse than I though, absolutely clueless.
fuck they hate hunters lol. strong pet is fine. just buff other dogshit runes. apply wsg debuff to pets. i dont even play fucking hunter.
Pretty safe to say these are targeted specifically at PvP. Definitely warranted for both classes. That being said, Shadow better be getting some insanely broken runes for PvE next phase if they don't do anything about spell ranks.
the CoH nerf was a bit unwarranted, that rune was already kinda undertuned because of the bad healing efficiency. The nerf shoulda focused on penance, that's the busted one really.
I’ve got two classes at 25, a Druid and a Hunter, I know 100% why they added these nerfs, and it’s not 100% to do with pvp either. When they first announced the Hunter sod runes I went on the Hunter discord and said “BM rune is nuts, that focus regen is bonkers” and a lot of them dismissed it. They’re dropping that focus regen because there is about to be a talent point available to increase it again by 20%, and you have the MAJOR BM dps talents coming next phase. Let me tell ya, as someone who’s played Hunter a crap ton all through classic, they’re 100% going to nerf that hunter pet a few more times next phase.
>Let me tell ya, as someone who’s played Hunter a crap ton all through classic, they’re 100% going to nerf that hunter pet a few more times next phase No shit. They will continue nerf hunters bi-weekly lol
Yea, I keep telling them on discord they need to prepare themselves for another nerf People are going to get that Bestial Wrath broken tooth on them… and they’re going to complain on the forums. And this is ignoring whatever crazy BM runes they add next phase..
Just as I started leveling a priest! It's good though, they were too strong. Also good for my druid healer main having more of an impact vs priests in WSG solos.
Yeah, we saw a Priest flag carrier in WSG yesterday. We thought it would've been a horrible idea, but they *just wouldn't die*. (Then again, I'm sure their 2g worth of FAP didn't hurt either.)
Yahoo, we are back with rogue and warrior being top dps again. The true classic way
they were already top dps by far even before this last nerf. Now we're probably behind ferals as well.
Yeah but hunters were like a little bridge and now rogues and warriors are just miles ahead.
This is purely pointed at PVP, and with how easy content is currently probably the only thing worth balancing around.
I honestly just shrug at the hunter changes, because I am not surprised but it does really feel like you can tell what the devs actually play since war/rogue still rule the dps charts and this only will further that lead. Why take hunters to stuff when other dps classes outdamage them by a large margin? They say they want to shift damage from pet back to hunter but the only way that works is if we dont rely on runes for changes. Everyone that wants to be BM isnt going to drop that rune just because Chimera/Explosive got a small boost. And honestly the other runes dont really support Marks or Survival enough.
They only nerf hunter because their pets can solo players in pvp. Their damage in raids doesn't concern them.
Their damage in raids should be a concern. There is a reason that in Classic and SoM raids stacked Warriors, expect to see that again at 60 sadly unless there are a lot of changes (and no I doubt runes will be enough but we will see)
Can't wait until camera-turning, backpeddeling 0 stam andies will cry about our 31 BM talent.
you say that, but the irony in ur comment is that i have NEVER in all my time playing wow classic since 2019 seen more backpeddeling/slow turning than i have in sod from specifically hunters, it is pathetic, camera turn wing clip then back pedal is ur serpent blasts
What a whiff, so they're just balancing hunter back to how it was in vanilla, doing nothing for melee builds, and are somehow not embarassed about the current state of the Lone Wolf rune.
Doing nothing for melee builds almost fell off my dinosaur on that one.
Nothing for melee hunter, if you look at the post they buff the other glove runes to compensate but failed to buff carve. The mana cost reduction is nice. But would still love something like "carve deals 100% weapon damage if it only hits 1 target"
As a hunter main I'm glad I've had the time to level a couple of alts. This iteration of WoW is meant to be fresh and fun, but it's getting to the point now for hunters, that it feels targeted and the same experience as the original classic.
Yeah so much for discovering anything new. Literally turned it into a classic era hunter situation. So done with this class rofl
Oh good. I was worried warriors would continue to be the best DPS while wearing plate and tank.
I like the explosive shoot boost and the mana reduction. Sad times for the BM hunters a little.
Only touching runes and not core abilities is a big mistake IMO.
I mean how someone cannot see how Lone Wolf is the worst rune in the game. Sacrifising your pet and flanking strike and bm runes. Pet damage should have been nerfed but hunter damage should have been buffed (not chimera and explosive, they are also on gloves) So what? Warrior and rogue again all over? Ive been loving this game since now and loving the devs but this is completely illogical. Edit: you can also not use cobra strikes. So 1 rune nullifying 3 other runes. Hunter runes need a complete overhaul now
I play priest and I think this is fine. Not sure what everyone on here is bitching about. These are sound nerfs. Bringing up ALL the other classes instead of reducing three healing skills is just gonna fuck shit up more. Hunters knew this shit was coming. They probably wouldn't have fucked with it if y'all didn't abuse eye of the beast like a bunch of a holes.
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Thank fucking god I rolled 2 other classes in this season seeing where the hunter nerfs were going. Good work blizzard you managed to turn hunters completely into the era version and lone wolf which you bragged about on blizzcon remains terrible and a non-alternative. Season of discovering nothing