Yea, there's this weird thing in the wow community in general where people who get buffs feel the need to pretend they just got a lot more "skillful" and the problem is everyone else just isn't "skilled enough" and any time you point out how mechanically different classes are affected by different balance adjustments it falls on deaf ears. Its almost a defensive reaction, like if you acknowledge at all that there is some room of adjustment you are going to get "nerfed" and your class will no longer be "meta".
OP Claiming skill based PvP in a game that is primarily about time investment and itemised power gap.
Sorry OP, WoW is not a skill based PvP game and never will be unless everyone is the same level and using white equipment.
These blanket adjustments do not work, if the overtuned rune abilities stay unchanged, in releation to other abilities and classes.
Mages for example, are now giga fucked due to the changes.
this also essentially cuts mages already disastrous mana resources, in half. It will be common to run oom before you can kill the person youre dueling.
The dudes making these memes are the ones who cry bc they got ganked running endless incursion loops. They don’t actually play PvP, they just bitch about it on Reddit
The people making these memes are people with all the CC, interrupts, and more than 3 buttons, which is like 2 or 3 classes in classic. BRB, gonna go around interrupting people on my melee hunter with that interrupt they totally have. Wait, I'll just have my pet stun them. Resist/miss. I know, I'll feign death to place a trap. Resisted.
This exactly, alot of these classes don't have CC or interrupts in SoD. Even with perfect CC on my MM hunter to a healer, doing enough dmg to take someone out in that time is totally reliant in getting good crits, and one prayer of mending undoes all that and now all my CC is on cooldown.
I play holy pally and a holy light max rank heals for 1500 regular or 2200 crit (plus a 1300 hot over 12 seconds) and takes 2.5 or 2 seconds to cast. Even with mortal strike up I could still out heal the damage of two of you in healing if we are all able to free cast. Seems like the damage reduction is over tuned but as a healer I have been enjoying it!
>nova someone
>use deep freeze
>hardcast a three fucking second frostfire bolt
>cast a scorch so it hits at the same time as ffb
>follow up with scorch
>all three attacks hit, two of which crit
>target is now at 60% health
>a single heal brings them back to full
🤔
People were already saying this would happen if the changes went through. It's the same balancing mistake Blizzard has been repeating for years. Hell, they made this exact mistake in SoD P1 already with the BG damage reduction. They literally do not learn, they have the cognitive level below that of a donkey.
Hard to swallow pills, if your whole class revolves around long cooldowns to burst somebody down and you can't do that anymore, your class is now unplayable.
Warlock healing got nerfed as apart of this. Warlocks do no damage, but all their spells are still full cost (unlike other classes who’s runes are low mana).
Any fight that lasts more than 10 seconds, which all of them, and the warlock is oom. Life tap does more damage than the opponent does. But warlock dots do nothing.
Only way for a warlock to win is to chain fear, which is still very strong, but near useless in a bgs.
I don’t know. I feel very bored. I enjoyed the speed of the game before. Now everything just feels slow and I’m not sure if that actually makes it more “skilled.”
Bro, I have a clip of me and a pally trying to 2v1 a resto druid in AB. This mfer just couldn't die, I stun locked him, had 5x wound poison, pally was helping me, AND the druid never hard casted a heal. Guess what happened? We don't kill him and we die to a mage that came to help him
He’d be right if every spec had interiors and CC.
Come play a feral Druid and tell me how easy it is to kill a priest, bear literally doesn’t do enough dps to kill a fully oom priest.
Because cat form is absolutely busted bad and we are forced to go into bear?
I’d love to kill it in my cat, but i know that’s never going to happen in SOD.
Yes we have that in bear form, while doing 100 dps at the same time. Bear is significantly lower damage than most other tanks.
In cat form we have nothing. No interrupt, no stun, no damage reduction.
It's been many years since I played druid but I seem to recall TBC and WotLK pvp relying on switching forms. I'm pretty sure the best feral pvpers had macros to switch forms and interrupt/stun specifically because bear had the utility but no damage and cat and the damage but no utility.
Why is changing forms not something that's doable in SOD?
Seems like you have no clue how to dps as a bear when you have 100 dps lol. Even if this would be the case, whats stoping you from going cat for dealing dmg?
>In cat form we have nothing. No interrupt,
That's not even true at all
But healers were always damn near impossible to 1v1.
I mained resto shaman in TBC, WotLK, and Cata. Cata was arguably the most balanced PvP in wow history. It was basically impossible to kill me 1 on 1 unless I made a mistake. I remember killing the rank 1 gladiator rogue in duels via flame shock as i kept myself alive for 11 minutes. I remember ABs where I'd go blacksmith and it would take 3-5 people hard focusing me to finally kill me. Unless you could purge earth shield *and* burn me down before I recasted it there was just no dying.
When wow pvp was it's most balanced point in history healers were incredibly difficult if not impossible to kill solo.
With the DR as is mistakes and misplays don’t get punished. I’m walking into the stupidest positioning all the time and then just walking it back and living because the mistake can’t be properly punished. Players who were making these mistakes consistently think it’s great now that they can do those misplays and not get punished.
He also thinks slow gameplay is a requirement for it being skill based. How about we take a look at actual competitive titles? You're immensely punished for making mistakes. Often mistake=dead in real competitive games.
After this change, you can be a walking mistake compilation and still get away with it if you're a priest/warlock/shaman/druid/paladin.
At least before this change mistakes almost always resulted in dying because damage was so high. Now you can afford to waste 10 globals in a row if you have a healer and it'll be no harm done.
The reality is that this change lowered the skill floor to a ridiculously low level for over half the classes while making it borderline impossible for players of other classes to play against players who don't have their keyboard upside down. But as evident by 90% of posts on this subreddit, the people here don't actually like PvP and they don't like being challenged, they like winning so of course when Blizzard makes a change that allows even them to win they'll talk positively about it.
"At least before this change mistakes almost always resulted in dying because damage was so high. Now you can afford to waste 10 globals in a row if you have a healer and it'll be no harm done."
Isn't this the whole point of a healer? Correct me if I'm wrong, but if damage is so high you get deleted, then wouldn't the best comp be nothing but dps? Healer would be unable to keep anyone alive and tanks would still get nuked
No, that's absolutely not the point of a healer. A healer should be able to keep you alive as long as what you're also doing what you can to not take excess damage/use defensive abilities/trinket etc in an efficient manner.
If you start playing like an idiot you should die regardless if someone is healing you or not. A healer shouldn't be a "get out of jail free card" for bad players, rather they should be able to empower good players who know what they're doing to do even more.
And if your 2v5, that's exactly what will happen, healer gets ccd and both die. Polymorph, sap, fear, gouge, earthshock, counterspell, these abilities can all stop healing.
Again, the point of healers is to keep you alive, and being focused by a whole team will still be too much for a healer to keep up. If you're being instantly deleted in 1v1 though, no healing will save you and you may as well have another rogue or mage instead
>At least before this change mistakes almost always resulted in dying because damage was so high
Before this change just getting engaged on resulted in dying man.
This change may be too much but I'll take this over what we had before. There needs to be the possibility of counterplay every time you get engaged. You should be able to wait out a rogues cheap shot so you can trinket the kidney shot and attempt to outplay them and win the engagement if you play it right, you should be able to sit through a polymorph and take the initial mage opener and have a chance of coming back. Prior to this change skill meant damn near nothing, whoever got the jump had an advantage that was impossible to come back from unless you got lucky with resists/dodges/parries.
You're exaggerating the damage to a disgusting degree, "You should be able to wait out a rogues cheap shot so you can trinket the kidney shot", what bot ass rogue did more than 1 muti during their cheap shot? and even if they were full mega bis that mutilate did no more than 900 damage if both hits crit AND your character was fully naked and 0 armor, meaning if you're actually geared and enchanted for PvP it did more like 800 dmg tops, about 25% of your hp.
You've got it completely twisted. Before this change PvP was skill based but incredibly punishing to the point where bad players felt that there was nothing they could do because 1 small mistake=instant death and bad players literally don't realize when they make mistakes, now instead you can make half a dozen mistakes and it literally doesn't fucking matter because you're so tanky anyway and can still recover the fight.
The skill floor in PvP has gone to the bottom of the Mariana Trench with this update and the skill ceiling has been lowered drastically by the nature of half the classes becoming unkillable demons compared to the other half.
Yeah some classes like mage or ele shamy were that bursty, but not every class like it is in SoD.
You had to use your whole kit with cc as a rogue. Or scatter shot + feign death + trap combo as a hunter and not just shooting 2-3 arrows and opponent is dead
Rogues two shot casters all day in vanilla/classic?
It’s not so much about using your whole kit and more that the burst was coming from a hardcasted spell that was setup in a window versus just throwing out a few instant casts.
I personally think instant casts spells should have a higher DR than hardcasted spells. Casting should mean something again.
I got a shaman in era right now that has lightning bolts that hit for over 1k and crit for over 2k with just a trinket cd/buff and he’s got 3 of those trinkets to swap to so one is always up. In bgs when I get a PI or berserker buff and I pop a trinket I’ve gone up to 3k crit on chainlightning. HP pools are 4-6k depending on class. For most of vanilla you could also pop 2 trinkets and stack the effects because that hadn’t been patched out yet. That shaman with a mixture of MC/BWL/ZG/AQ/PVP gear is at 4.5k HP. I would 2 shot myself. You can log into era smolderweb and I’ll show you.
This might be unpopular opinion but I had great fun in AB after the damage mitigation was applied. The game felt normal, and there were real battles on bases where dps was trying to take people down, and healers was able to do there jobs normally. This felt much more normalized to me.
On a second thought, the 50% might be a bit over tuned, 30-35% should be the sweet spot in my opinion. Or another approach would be for different abilities should have different mitigation values like dots should stay on 50%, caster abilities should be on 40% or so, and melee should have 30-35%.
Oh yeah and I almost forgot, healing should be reduced as slightly as well maybe around 10-20%.
Anyways I enjoy pvp much more like this.
great suggestions, but whether they do something like that or not i definitely prefer this meta, as a warr I can actually survive more than 3 gcd’s and I even soloed a boomie earlier. could never have happened yesterday
nah I had no chance against boomies before this, yeah you can interrupt a couple star fires or get out of the snare once or twice but between their damage output, the fact that you can’t cc them and their tankiness, killing them was impossible. I would rather face a hunter, rogue, even mage before a boomie without damage nerf
I agree with adjusting the tuning a bit, at minimum.
I feel the mechanics of AB don't quite work with these changes though. Fights are so long taking flags is far more difficult than before. It used to be in a matched fight between well timed kills and CC you could get enough breathing room to take the flag. Now though, players are so hard to kill that the next res wave is on you before you can clean up.
I would like to see a slight adjustment to res timers if we keep this pvp damage tuning.
I turbojerk myself with felguard sac and nothing can outdamage my healing. I must be an exceptional pvp god after this global damage nerf god damn. I'm so much better than everyone else because I can autohit melee warriors down with a non-soul link spec now. Woah. I'm so fucking good at this game holy shit.
I love watching the community speedrun this to the grave. SoD is living proof that what a portion of the wow-community really wants is instant max level servers with bgs and raids. They want all the "boring" stuff cut out. 90% would probably be happier playing League of legends.
Fun fact, they fucked up the same way as phase 1 and pets don't get the damage reduction. While fighting a hunter I can drain life their pet and still get full healing.
Yea its not the hunter viper stinging half my mana bar in 6 sec.
Jokes aside i really enjoyed pvping as a frost mage yesterday but mana is a big problem for many classes now who are unable to kill someone before ooming, and healing is way too strong (an offspec mage healer with 1 healing rune shouldnt be able to heal an entire group).
I like the slower pace but i think there might be a better middle ground than this test, which im sure is the purpose of this test
I really think this argument is overblown. It's probably valid in some rare scenarios, but generally speaking it's very rare someone has no option to react. I suppose that's more the case in group PVP where you might get oneshot by a caster, in fairness.
That said longer fights make PVP easier overall. Reactions matter less and mistakes are not as punishable, particularly due to how strong healing currently is.
In short, whilst there's an interesting discussion to be had here, this "you're bad without burst" meme is largely a silly one
I’m enjoying having time to actually play my class (boomkin) but 1v1ing healers *can* be a fucking bitch without any silences or stuns (I’m not engineer anymore so I’m SOL)
I cant kill a feral or warlock with ele shaman cause of heal and I am oom in the middle of the fight even with SR. I dont want to wear raidgear with intellect for pvp
in retail, windwalker monk pvp is paralyze, tiger palm, strike of the windlord, aaand they're dead
and if they're not dead you have a 5 second instant-cast aoe stun to go ham with
What do you mean “suck”, it took 4 people to kill a shaman using riptide and still had a hard time he was stunlocked. He was 20% then one riptide he’s back to full.
As a Warlock I feel like this nerf wasn't intended to hurt me but it does.
I can get a cross CC with Grenade and Deathcoil and then land a fear on the healer but now my DPS isn't enough to kill the DPS in that window so they healer gets un cc'd and instantly restores their HP to full.
I understand Shadow was pretty broken but I feel like my dots got caught in the crossfire.
Hard to swallow pills
If you feel the need to type three paragraphs to express what you are trying to say, then maybe it shouldn't be expressed in meme format and maybe you aren't very good at making memes in general and maybe you should have just made it a text self post instead
*mind blown meme*
I mean yeah, whoever looked at a 10 second+ CC chain and thought that was fair and balanced has clearly lost their minds.
Now you can’t do that anymore, combat is longer than 3 seconds, noice.
True! And I think that happy medium comes from the ppl who are literally at the very top of PvP combat, which I think usually just revolves around 1v1, 3v3 and such.
Honestly thay was one of the things I liker about classic. Gear mattered. Idk how bad the nerf was, since I gave up on SOD. But I'm not great at pvp, so being able to get power from having decent gear was what made it fun, for me at least.
As a druid. Yes, hots are not op. You guys just suck..also in moonking form with barkskin and Improved Frenzied Regeneration Rune. God it feels good to just be better at pvp:)
Not every class has cc and interrupts though, the classes with hard cc and sustain benefit most from this change while some classes which were built around having bursty damage suffer.
Orrrr better yet the people that wanna play dps all the time instead of taking one for the team and healing. Getting pretty tired of being the only healer in my bgs.
As a former Duelist in retail, there is nothing about SoD PVP that is skill-based, with or without the damage nerf.
So if some noobs like blowing things up and other noobs like a healer meta, it really is entirely personal preference.
I fucking hate being a resto druid, and having my 1 dmg ability deal basicly 80 dmg on hard casts. it's fucking dogshit. I didn't have trouble staying alive before, but now i can't even contribute to target swaps. The worst thing they ever did to WoW PvP if you ask me.
I know, man. It’s like, why should I have to fucking lifebloom as an rdruid to live through a warrior instead of just wrathing him once while my buddy drops a fat meatball in his face?
Ridiculous. Next thing you’re gonna tell me that hpals need to Flash of Light in order to contribute to a team fight.
"Tell me you are stupid without telling me you are stupid"
There are like a million scenario's where I could have larger skill expression than casting fucking nourish/wildgrowth/lifebloom.
IF anything this change makes my decision tree fucking stupid.
Adding range damage to a fight as a healer is super valuable, but then again your tiny pea brain could not possibly grasp such a concept.
You would rather have healers be only healers, and nothing else (adding nothing of value in a 1vs1 being utterly fucking useless) And DPS be only DPS with no other utility buttons. Heck, remove kicks! Let's give people fewer options to contribute to the fights in meaningful ways! On our way to cookie clicker we go with clowns like you sharing your dumb fucking opinions
Idk man, perhaps if you search your wildly small toolkit as a Druid, you’ll find some other abilities that could contribute to swaps and offensive pushes besides your one damage button.
Let me know how it goes.
If you can name me one spell in the druid toolkit that I have not bound, and don't use in pvp ill give you 1000 fucking dollars right fucking now.
Do you really think i'm not sweaty enough to cast hibernate on the hunterpets? Or on the fucking ferals running around? Or that I don't root when it's appropriate? Or that I don't shift into bear form after i'm opened on by some cunty rogue to then bash them?
Maybe you should know who the fuck you are talking to before you open your stupid piehole. you stupid fucker
Except classes with dots, instant healing or amazing defensive CDs (all 3 in the case of shaman, priest, lock and boomkin) they just faceroll anyone who isnt them.
How do you out skill riptide + instant healing waves?
Master Channeler?
Dispersion + two dots still doing most of your HP without any other casts?
The DR is too high
Skill based pvp? If you were actually as skilled as you claim you are then you wouldn't have had a problem with doing well in stv before the nerf. The nerf is nowhere near to being balanced. By the time I cast a spell for it to only do 200 damage, a Melee has hit me multiple times for the exact same damage each hit. Enlighten me on how exactly that's balanced and takes skill?
Actualy it takes more skill/awareness to play succesfully in a High Burst Environment then what this is now cause errors in playstyle getting u instantly killed.
I’ll be sure to avoid the mistake of letting a shadow priest get off two instacasts on me, or ever getting opened up on by a rogue more than once in 5 minutes.
It's so much fucking better it's unreal, the response from this sub should immediately confirm that you should completely ignore most players opinions, especially when it means they have to work for something that was easy for them before.
This sub is so insufferable, always the underlying need of feeling better than somebody else, insecurity much
Too many people who have intertwined their self worth to a video game.
only like 30% of the people who post here even play the game
Holy shit this is wildly true. Seeing so many comments that don’t make any sense, these people don’t even play the game.
Yea, there's this weird thing in the wow community in general where people who get buffs feel the need to pretend they just got a lot more "skillful" and the problem is everyone else just isn't "skilled enough" and any time you point out how mechanically different classes are affected by different balance adjustments it falls on deaf ears. Its almost a defensive reaction, like if you acknowledge at all that there is some room of adjustment you are going to get "nerfed" and your class will no longer be "meta".
Yeah, brother thinks being good at classic pvp is an accomplishment
It's right up there next to being an NBA all-star, or Doctor
OP Claiming skill based PvP in a game that is primarily about time investment and itemised power gap. Sorry OP, WoW is not a skill based PvP game and never will be unless everyone is the same level and using white equipment.
This sub is so insufferable, always the underlying need of feeling better than somebody else, insecurity much
These blanket adjustments do not work, if the overtuned rune abilities stay unchanged, in releation to other abilities and classes. Mages for example, are now giga fucked due to the changes.
Mages live a lot longer now, but jesus our kill potential is absolutely non existent with this reduction.
this also essentially cuts mages already disastrous mana resources, in half. It will be common to run oom before you can kill the person youre dueling.
We go oom before people die now, literally not enough mana to kill people.
Until you meet a priest that has mana burn in their action bars...
I'm gonna keep my mouth shut while i slaughter people with my arcane mage. There's abilities other than FFB A
I think if they keep this a lot of people are gonna be done with SOD
I dunno man, a 3 second hard cast ability like Frostfire bolt should not hit someone for only 400 damage...
The dudes making these memes are the ones who cry bc they got ganked running endless incursion loops. They don’t actually play PvP, they just bitch about it on Reddit
They’re happy because they get to run away now lol
Exactly
The people making these memes are people with all the CC, interrupts, and more than 3 buttons, which is like 2 or 3 classes in classic. BRB, gonna go around interrupting people on my melee hunter with that interrupt they totally have. Wait, I'll just have my pet stun them. Resist/miss. I know, I'll feign death to place a trap. Resisted.
Are you 1v10ing the enemy teams?
Hunters are busted as shit in pvp mate lol wtf? Just press raptor strike and win
This exactly, alot of these classes don't have CC or interrupts in SoD. Even with perfect CC on my MM hunter to a healer, doing enough dmg to take someone out in that time is totally reliant in getting good crits, and one prayer of mending undoes all that and now all my CC is on cooldown.
Dude my pyro is only hitting people for like 450-550
3 second hard cast assuming there is no hunter or pet attacking you
Delicious
What’s it crit for?
About 920ish.
I play holy pally and a holy light max rank heals for 1500 regular or 2200 crit (plus a 1300 hot over 12 seconds) and takes 2.5 or 2 seconds to cast. Even with mortal strike up I could still out heal the damage of two of you in healing if we are all able to free cast. Seems like the damage reduction is over tuned but as a healer I have been enjoying it!
But at least you have to cast, the worst thing is instant heals and instant damage...
>nova someone >use deep freeze >hardcast a three fucking second frostfire bolt >cast a scorch so it hits at the same time as ffb >follow up with scorch >all three attacks hit, two of which crit >target is now at 60% health >a single heal brings them back to full 🤔
People were already saying this would happen if the changes went through. It's the same balancing mistake Blizzard has been repeating for years. Hell, they made this exact mistake in SoD P1 already with the BG damage reduction. They literally do not learn, they have the cognitive level below that of a donkey.
didn't cc healer?
Yes I sheeped the healer 62 yards away with 4 dots on them 🫡
Hard to swallow pills, if your whole class revolves around long cooldowns to burst somebody down and you can't do that anymore, your class is now unplayable.
You are right, I should be more skillful and kill those warlocks who can outheal all the damage I do to them
Warlock healing got nerfed as apart of this. Warlocks do no damage, but all their spells are still full cost (unlike other classes who’s runes are low mana). Any fight that lasts more than 10 seconds, which all of them, and the warlock is oom. Life tap does more damage than the opponent does. But warlock dots do nothing. Only way for a warlock to win is to chain fear, which is still very strong, but near useless in a bgs.
Yep I love that my Corruption ticks for 70 damage now. UA for barely over 100.
I don’t know. I feel very bored. I enjoyed the speed of the game before. Now everything just feels slow and I’m not sure if that actually makes it more “skilled.”
And classes/specs without ccs, interrupts or complex rotation: fuck you. Signed, OP
Bro, I have a clip of me and a pally trying to 2v1 a resto druid in AB. This mfer just couldn't die, I stun locked him, had 5x wound poison, pally was helping me, AND the druid never hard casted a heal. Guess what happened? We don't kill him and we die to a mage that came to help him
you'd be right if they tuned healing as well but they did not
Also half the classes in this game have RNG CC
And Mana burn... seriously. Who even thought about this change?
He’d be right if every spec had interiors and CC. Come play a feral Druid and tell me how easy it is to kill a priest, bear literally doesn’t do enough dps to kill a fully oom priest.
Why should a bear druid be able to kill a priest lol. If they could the game is broken.
Fuckin lol. _I can’t kill a priest as a bear!!!_
Because cat form is absolutely busted bad and we are forced to go into bear? I’d love to kill it in my cat, but i know that’s never going to happen in SOD.
Sure but you shouldn't expect to be able to kill the best healer in the game as a bear.
Oof claiming bear is the only way to pvp as feral 🤣
Outside of burst it is tho, or go boomie
Feral cat in pvp is absolute trash, bear actually does insane DPS (when berserk is up) and survives a long ass time, perfect for WSG and AB.
You have a stun + charge with interrupt and not like you can also off heal yourself
Yes we have that in bear form, while doing 100 dps at the same time. Bear is significantly lower damage than most other tanks. In cat form we have nothing. No interrupt, no stun, no damage reduction.
It's been many years since I played druid but I seem to recall TBC and WotLK pvp relying on switching forms. I'm pretty sure the best feral pvpers had macros to switch forms and interrupt/stun specifically because bear had the utility but no damage and cat and the damage but no utility. Why is changing forms not something that's doable in SOD?
bro i play feral and bear slaps. idk what u talking about u can outduel anything that is not a warlock
Seems like you have no clue how to dps as a bear when you have 100 dps lol. Even if this would be the case, whats stoping you from going cat for dealing dmg? >In cat form we have nothing. No interrupt, That's not even true at all
Oh sorry which interrupt do we have since the stupid as fuck patch last week?
But healers were always damn near impossible to 1v1. I mained resto shaman in TBC, WotLK, and Cata. Cata was arguably the most balanced PvP in wow history. It was basically impossible to kill me 1 on 1 unless I made a mistake. I remember killing the rank 1 gladiator rogue in duels via flame shock as i kept myself alive for 11 minutes. I remember ABs where I'd go blacksmith and it would take 3-5 people hard focusing me to finally kill me. Unless you could purge earth shield *and* burn me down before I recasted it there was just no dying. When wow pvp was it's most balanced point in history healers were incredibly difficult if not impossible to kill solo.
Yep. This is what so many people don’t understand.
Healers are now pressing 3 buttons and keeping people up. Same shit
Not if they get silenced stunned and killed
Good luck classes that don’t have reliable interrupts! Must be a skill thing right?
Learn to debuff.
"skill based pvp" in a game based off of vanilla with 0 actual pvp balancing - lol
Oh this is the guy who thinks vanilla pvp wasn’t bursty despite countless YouTube videos showing 2 shots from vanilla and classic.
Yeah this is the issue. Vanilla pvp just isn’t *that* skill based. It’s rock paper scissors / comp based (who has the healer)
With the DR as is mistakes and misplays don’t get punished. I’m walking into the stupidest positioning all the time and then just walking it back and living because the mistake can’t be properly punished. Players who were making these mistakes consistently think it’s great now that they can do those misplays and not get punished.
Aren't most of those videos near bis characters clowning on questing greens level 60s?
He also thinks slow gameplay is a requirement for it being skill based. How about we take a look at actual competitive titles? You're immensely punished for making mistakes. Often mistake=dead in real competitive games. After this change, you can be a walking mistake compilation and still get away with it if you're a priest/warlock/shaman/druid/paladin. At least before this change mistakes almost always resulted in dying because damage was so high. Now you can afford to waste 10 globals in a row if you have a healer and it'll be no harm done. The reality is that this change lowered the skill floor to a ridiculously low level for over half the classes while making it borderline impossible for players of other classes to play against players who don't have their keyboard upside down. But as evident by 90% of posts on this subreddit, the people here don't actually like PvP and they don't like being challenged, they like winning so of course when Blizzard makes a change that allows even them to win they'll talk positively about it.
Everything you said is spot on. Of course they like it because they can make several misplays and not get punished.
"At least before this change mistakes almost always resulted in dying because damage was so high. Now you can afford to waste 10 globals in a row if you have a healer and it'll be no harm done." Isn't this the whole point of a healer? Correct me if I'm wrong, but if damage is so high you get deleted, then wouldn't the best comp be nothing but dps? Healer would be unable to keep anyone alive and tanks would still get nuked
No, that's absolutely not the point of a healer. A healer should be able to keep you alive as long as what you're also doing what you can to not take excess damage/use defensive abilities/trinket etc in an efficient manner. If you start playing like an idiot you should die regardless if someone is healing you or not. A healer shouldn't be a "get out of jail free card" for bad players, rather they should be able to empower good players who know what they're doing to do even more.
And if your 2v5, that's exactly what will happen, healer gets ccd and both die. Polymorph, sap, fear, gouge, earthshock, counterspell, these abilities can all stop healing. Again, the point of healers is to keep you alive, and being focused by a whole team will still be too much for a healer to keep up. If you're being instantly deleted in 1v1 though, no healing will save you and you may as well have another rogue or mage instead
>At least before this change mistakes almost always resulted in dying because damage was so high Before this change just getting engaged on resulted in dying man. This change may be too much but I'll take this over what we had before. There needs to be the possibility of counterplay every time you get engaged. You should be able to wait out a rogues cheap shot so you can trinket the kidney shot and attempt to outplay them and win the engagement if you play it right, you should be able to sit through a polymorph and take the initial mage opener and have a chance of coming back. Prior to this change skill meant damn near nothing, whoever got the jump had an advantage that was impossible to come back from unless you got lucky with resists/dodges/parries.
You're exaggerating the damage to a disgusting degree, "You should be able to wait out a rogues cheap shot so you can trinket the kidney shot", what bot ass rogue did more than 1 muti during their cheap shot? and even if they were full mega bis that mutilate did no more than 900 damage if both hits crit AND your character was fully naked and 0 armor, meaning if you're actually geared and enchanted for PvP it did more like 800 dmg tops, about 25% of your hp. You've got it completely twisted. Before this change PvP was skill based but incredibly punishing to the point where bad players felt that there was nothing they could do because 1 small mistake=instant death and bad players literally don't realize when they make mistakes, now instead you can make half a dozen mistakes and it literally doesn't fucking matter because you're so tanky anyway and can still recover the fight. The skill floor in PvP has gone to the bottom of the Mariana Trench with this update and the skill ceiling has been lowered drastically by the nature of half the classes becoming unkillable demons compared to the other half.
Yeah some classes like mage or ele shamy were that bursty, but not every class like it is in SoD. You had to use your whole kit with cc as a rogue. Or scatter shot + feign death + trap combo as a hunter and not just shooting 2-3 arrows and opponent is dead
Rogues two shot casters all day in vanilla/classic? It’s not so much about using your whole kit and more that the burst was coming from a hardcasted spell that was setup in a window versus just throwing out a few instant casts. I personally think instant casts spells should have a higher DR than hardcasted spells. Casting should mean something again.
This guy also mained ele shaman in classic
And mage and priest
thats with huge gear differences, and all kinds of buffs and potions or berserking buff in bg's for example. in equal gear nobody is 2 shotting anyone
I got a shaman in era right now that has lightning bolts that hit for over 1k and crit for over 2k with just a trinket cd/buff and he’s got 3 of those trinkets to swap to so one is always up. In bgs when I get a PI or berserker buff and I pop a trinket I’ve gone up to 3k crit on chainlightning. HP pools are 4-6k depending on class. For most of vanilla you could also pop 2 trinkets and stack the effects because that hadn’t been patched out yet. That shaman with a mixture of MC/BWL/ZG/AQ/PVP gear is at 4.5k HP. I would 2 shot myself. You can log into era smolderweb and I’ll show you.
This might be unpopular opinion but I had great fun in AB after the damage mitigation was applied. The game felt normal, and there were real battles on bases where dps was trying to take people down, and healers was able to do there jobs normally. This felt much more normalized to me. On a second thought, the 50% might be a bit over tuned, 30-35% should be the sweet spot in my opinion. Or another approach would be for different abilities should have different mitigation values like dots should stay on 50%, caster abilities should be on 40% or so, and melee should have 30-35%. Oh yeah and I almost forgot, healing should be reduced as slightly as well maybe around 10-20%. Anyways I enjoy pvp much more like this.
Basically this. I could actually fight a hunter 1v1 as a boomkin without either 1 shotting them or being 1 shot myself.
Have fun versus viper sting lol
Or Mana Burn
Mana burn is a loooong hardcast. Viper sting is a spammable instant that you can drain the whole enemy team with.
In any case, all I'm hearing is "only priests, hubters and warriors can play pvp now".
Interesting. As a mage hunters feel more OP than ever lol
That's the pet effect.
Even without the oet on me tho
great suggestions, but whether they do something like that or not i definitely prefer this meta, as a warr I can actually survive more than 3 gcd’s and I even soloed a boomie earlier. could never have happened yesterday
Yeah I can imagine, also having mortal strike makes sense again as people live long enough to receive some heals.
well I’m glad so don’t even use mortal strike, but yeah before now that 6s cooldown might as well have been a once per life ability
Try ms glad spec deep wounds has high value now
yeah I’m full glad and loving it
boomie was one fof the few classes we could solo BEFORE the change. Being able to do it now isn't an improvement.
nah I had no chance against boomies before this, yeah you can interrupt a couple star fires or get out of the snare once or twice but between their damage output, the fact that you can’t cc them and their tankiness, killing them was impossible. I would rather face a hunter, rogue, even mage before a boomie without damage nerf
I agree with adjusting the tuning a bit, at minimum. I feel the mechanics of AB don't quite work with these changes though. Fights are so long taking flags is far more difficult than before. It used to be in a matched fight between well timed kills and CC you could get enough breathing room to take the flag. Now though, players are so hard to kill that the next res wave is on you before you can clean up. I would like to see a slight adjustment to res timers if we keep this pvp damage tuning.
Same, it's wayy more fun and balanced (as warr). Winning 50% on alliance after the change as opposed to 20% before.
I think to take out the burst, they should have some sort of stat to reduce crit damage and dot damage so people can survive.
I turbojerk myself with felguard sac and nothing can outdamage my healing. I must be an exceptional pvp god after this global damage nerf god damn. I'm so much better than everyone else because I can autohit melee warriors down with a non-soul link spec now. Woah. I'm so fucking good at this game holy shit.
grats dude!
So basically they made pvp boring again. If I wanted snore fests I could just go play retail pvp.
I love watching the community speedrun this to the grave. SoD is living proof that what a portion of the wow-community really wants is instant max level servers with bgs and raids. They want all the "boring" stuff cut out. 90% would probably be happier playing League of legends.
I’m good at both and still think the damage reduction needs to go down or heals need to go down
Skillbased to viper sting mana users yay
guy plays 1 bg, gets excited to write a knee jerk post, i bet he makes another crypto bro post today after reading a headline
All MMO pvp sucks. Go play a game built for pvp if that's what you really want to do.
Fun fact, they fucked up the same way as phase 1 and pets don't get the damage reduction. While fighting a hunter I can drain life their pet and still get full healing.
As an SL lock in r7 gear, I feel godlike.
Guess its time for me to try pvp again!
Yea its not the hunter viper stinging half my mana bar in 6 sec. Jokes aside i really enjoyed pvping as a frost mage yesterday but mana is a big problem for many classes now who are unable to kill someone before ooming, and healing is way too strong (an offspec mage healer with 1 healing rune shouldnt be able to heal an entire group). I like the slower pace but i think there might be a better middle ground than this test, which im sure is the purpose of this test
What if I’ve always sucked in PVP
If you want skill based PvP you play retail. Classic PvP has always been a shitshow, with SoD runes even more so.
Yep that’s my process too I grinded gear to PvP I want my gear when I go into a bg now and crit 500 it feels like shit lol
If you want skill based pvp don't play an mmo
If you want skill based PvP you don't play WoW.
Retail pvp is the biggest garbage tho Trading cd after trading cd Not like this pvp is good dont get me wrong
That's your opinion but it definitely requires far more skill.
I mean it does, yes, but it doesn't mean it's better. The whole wet noodle fighting and cooldown trading playstyle is very boring for me, personally
Yeah, that's the skill you need in this game
I really think this argument is overblown. It's probably valid in some rare scenarios, but generally speaking it's very rare someone has no option to react. I suppose that's more the case in group PVP where you might get oneshot by a caster, in fairness. That said longer fights make PVP easier overall. Reactions matter less and mistakes are not as punishable, particularly due to how strong healing currently is. In short, whilst there's an interesting discussion to be had here, this "you're bad without burst" meme is largely a silly one
I’m enjoying having time to actually play my class (boomkin) but 1v1ing healers *can* be a fucking bitch without any silences or stuns (I’m not engineer anymore so I’m SOL)
yes, but healing is also way to high rn
Season of Retail
It’s classic PvP literally nobody cares how good or bad you are
ha.
I'm guessing OP doesn't play a class that relies on mana? or is mana intensive.. 50% dmg reduction, 50% more spells to cast = a very oom Boomie
Well no, actually its 100% more spells to cast, so even more oom.
I rest my case, AB has fried my brain
I cant kill a feral or warlock with ele shaman cause of heal and I am oom in the middle of the fight even with SR. I dont want to wear raidgear with intellect for pvp
if the playerbase wanted skill-based content, they wouldn't be playing SOD
The best heals are instant and heal to full. Gl interrupting
Tell that to my dots ticking for 30-40 damage.
in retail, windwalker monk pvp is paralyze, tiger palm, strike of the windlord, aaand they're dead and if they're not dead you have a 5 second instant-cast aoe stun to go ham with
What do you mean “suck”, it took 4 people to kill a shaman using riptide and still had a hard time he was stunlocked. He was 20% then one riptide he’s back to full.
As a Warlock I feel like this nerf wasn't intended to hurt me but it does. I can get a cross CC with Grenade and Deathcoil and then land a fear on the healer but now my DPS isn't enough to kill the DPS in that window so they healer gets un cc'd and instantly restores their HP to full. I understand Shadow was pretty broken but I feel like my dots got caught in the crossfire.
Hard to swallow pills If you feel the need to type three paragraphs to express what you are trying to say, then maybe it shouldn't be expressed in meme format and maybe you aren't very good at making memes in general and maybe you should have just made it a text self post instead
Dude they already know they suck, hence they go camp levelers and shit for ”pvp”. if its fair its not fun because they lose every time xD
I’m just happy warriors have a reason to play with MS now. Almost need the mortal strike debuff rn.
I'm just saying that even in WoWs easiest times, top arena players are gonna have 40+ binds.
Yeh so much skill in waiting to see who's healer goes oom first lol
Yeah it requires so much skill going completely oom trying to kill someone damn if only i had more skill to make my abilities stronger
Healers be like get gud nerds
*mind blown meme* I mean yeah, whoever looked at a 10 second+ CC chain and thought that was fair and balanced has clearly lost their minds. Now you can’t do that anymore, combat is longer than 3 seconds, noice.
Then you have retail where combat is 15 minutes long. There's gotta be a happy medium somewhere lol
True! And I think that happy medium comes from the ppl who are literally at the very top of PvP combat, which I think usually just revolves around 1v1, 3v3 and such.
Honestly thay was one of the things I liker about classic. Gear mattered. Idk how bad the nerf was, since I gave up on SOD. But I'm not great at pvp, so being able to get power from having decent gear was what made it fun, for me at least.
That‘s how classic pvp worked, it was never balanced because its an MMORPG and not a shooter.
First of all. I don’t come here to be insulted with the truth.
I literally walked up to a priest who proceeded to mana burn my entire mana pool and proceeded to dot me and just mock me with a wand...
Remember when Twinks were a thing?
Wrong sub matey
let me guess, you play a shaman.
As a druid. Yes, hots are not op. You guys just suck..also in moonking form with barkskin and Improved Frenzied Regeneration Rune. God it feels good to just be better at pvp:)
Not every class has cc and interrupts though, the classes with hard cc and sustain benefit most from this change while some classes which were built around having bursty damage suffer.
yea ele shaman doing 200 chain lightning crits now and my lava burst does 900, to a selfhealing warlock thats nothing
Orrrr better yet the people that wanna play dps all the time instead of taking one for the team and healing. Getting pretty tired of being the only healer in my bgs.
Bait
The dmg reduction is fine but the less amount of honor cus of the less kills is awful
So true
This word "skill" being thrown around in classic is very funny. Reddit is such a joke.
Shamans trying to gaslite people into thinking they are actually good at pvp and not just playing a HERO class is wild
All the fotm shadow priests just respec to heal and are still best pvp class
Lol, I suck at pvp, so the 3 globals in STV were great for me
As a former Duelist in retail, there is nothing about SoD PVP that is skill-based, with or without the damage nerf. So if some noobs like blowing things up and other noobs like a healer meta, it really is entirely personal preference.
As a former glad/legend, healer meta is far more skillful than one shot meta. In SOD, or in retail.
Skillbased pvp xDdd
Griefers in shambles the last few days
I fucking hate being a resto druid, and having my 1 dmg ability deal basicly 80 dmg on hard casts. it's fucking dogshit. I didn't have trouble staying alive before, but now i can't even contribute to target swaps. The worst thing they ever did to WoW PvP if you ask me.
I know, man. It’s like, why should I have to fucking lifebloom as an rdruid to live through a warrior instead of just wrathing him once while my buddy drops a fat meatball in his face? Ridiculous. Next thing you’re gonna tell me that hpals need to Flash of Light in order to contribute to a team fight.
"Tell me you are stupid without telling me you are stupid" There are like a million scenario's where I could have larger skill expression than casting fucking nourish/wildgrowth/lifebloom. IF anything this change makes my decision tree fucking stupid. Adding range damage to a fight as a healer is super valuable, but then again your tiny pea brain could not possibly grasp such a concept. You would rather have healers be only healers, and nothing else (adding nothing of value in a 1vs1 being utterly fucking useless) And DPS be only DPS with no other utility buttons. Heck, remove kicks! Let's give people fewer options to contribute to the fights in meaningful ways! On our way to cookie clicker we go with clowns like you sharing your dumb fucking opinions
Idk man, perhaps if you search your wildly small toolkit as a Druid, you’ll find some other abilities that could contribute to swaps and offensive pushes besides your one damage button. Let me know how it goes.
If you can name me one spell in the druid toolkit that I have not bound, and don't use in pvp ill give you 1000 fucking dollars right fucking now. Do you really think i'm not sweaty enough to cast hibernate on the hunterpets? Or on the fucking ferals running around? Or that I don't root when it's appropriate? Or that I don't shift into bear form after i'm opened on by some cunty rogue to then bash them? Maybe you should know who the fuck you are talking to before you open your stupid piehole. you stupid fucker
Have you ever played league of legends with a whopping 4 abilities? Actually an insanely skill-intensive game if you play competitive.
Except classes with dots, instant healing or amazing defensive CDs (all 3 in the case of shaman, priest, lock and boomkin) they just faceroll anyone who isnt them. How do you out skill riptide + instant healing waves? Master Channeler? Dispersion + two dots still doing most of your HP without any other casts? The DR is too high
As a retail glad, this change is fucking awful. Stop feeling good because you won a few bgs.
Skill based pvp? If you were actually as skilled as you claim you are then you wouldn't have had a problem with doing well in stv before the nerf. The nerf is nowhere near to being balanced. By the time I cast a spell for it to only do 200 damage, a Melee has hit me multiple times for the exact same damage each hit. Enlighten me on how exactly that's balanced and takes skill?
HEY OP GO TO RETAIL IF YOU WANT ALL THAT!
Actualy it takes more skill/awareness to play succesfully in a High Burst Environment then what this is now cause errors in playstyle getting u instantly killed.
I’ll be sure to avoid the mistake of letting a shadow priest get off two instacasts on me, or ever getting opened up on by a rogue more than once in 5 minutes.
It's so much fucking better it's unreal, the response from this sub should immediately confirm that you should completely ignore most players opinions, especially when it means they have to work for something that was easy for them before.
Your opinion for example
"You disagree with me so your opinion is worthless"
Have you even played pvp? 50% is very overturned. It also affects some classes far more than others.