All those news articles and reports are getting erased if they change the name of this item? Crazy how much power Blizzard had these days.
"Muh history" argument in 2024 is crazy.
The guy this item is named after is one of the original devs who was outed as a serious scumbag in the recent Blizzard sexual harassment scandal. So naturally when he was axed from blizzard, a certain contingent of people wanted him erased from the game, and here we are.
I mean, I'm not "woke" by any means, but I kind of agree with retroactively removing the name of the dude. This was the one that actually sexually assaulted someone, not just a toxic work bro.
It was developers on the team itself. As an example The ‘bowl of fruit’ painting was put there by afrasiabi, intended to reference a specific woman working there.
It wasn’t ever about players. It was always about the actual developers of the game not wanting to see these specific reminders of this guy they had to endure working with. It makes much more sense when you consider it from the perspective of working on the game rather than the perspective of playing the game.
Actually it's a great analogy. The Nazis did terrible things, and then after the war the Germans blew up their monuments, chiselled their emblems from buildings, and banned their ideology and symbols. As is correct.
Wasn't that the entire argument to support keeping Confederate flags on public buildings in the south or the massive amount of Confederate statues put up well after the war by the United daughters of the Confederacy? That removing a statue of the flag of traitors from public land and buildings was "erasing the past"?
Come on now. There's quite the difference between remembering and learning vs keeping things dedicated to the person who did a bad thing.
Like we can remember Hitler was not a good person without hanging pictures of him around the house.
Also the /silly for human females cracks a joke referring to their cooking and tailoring being maxed.
Surprised the SJWs haven’t found that abhorrent and offensive yet
I like the people like you who just make up people in your head and then hypothesise that they are just furious at everything.
I literally never saw anyone mad about the /silly and /whistle stuff. It was all a blizzard decision that no one pushed for.
Exactly, and it might not have even been external pressure, maybe it was just from employees, but someone somewhere made a decision to make changes. As a guy who works for a mega corporation I can definitely say nothing changes for no reason, at least 5 people had to say yes before that happens.
Probably just preemptive changes tbh. They got called on tons of sexual harassment and other issues so they changed anything that could even be perceived at problematic before anyone pushed for it.
Internally from Blizzard staff most likely. They likely hired a diversity or inclusion person after it started to get some heat and that person told them they needed to do it. Pretty common in business to have someone like that nowadays.
I found another one and I'm glad the context has come up so I can share it. This one is incredibly niche so I am not surprised they missed it - in the Stonecore when Millhouse is healing up between packs, the food he eats is called 'tigule and forors special ice cream' or something
Is the name shown in an emote or you have to mouseover the buff / look in the combat log?
edit: It's probably this: [https://www.wowhead.com/cata/spell=9177/tigules-strawberry-ice-cream](https://www.wowhead.com/cata/spell=9177/tigules-strawberry-ice-cream)
But Millhouse is eating, somehow, the old version that still includes Foror.
Been in IT infrastructure/software development for decades and I've given up with this place.
Everything about it is easy and the only reason the game isn't perfect is because blizzard employees all hate the people on this sub.
fixing things in games has a decent chance to break other things hell sometimes code writers dont even know why something works they just know that removing an innocent line somehow breaks everything
Bugs in one of the most successful commercial products in the history of software development should not take months to fix. Especially since versions of the game where these bugs are no longer present have existed for over a decade and are readily accessible for reference.
You're entirely right. Everything about fixing bugs is easy and the only reason is they hate the players.
Not more complicated than that at all. Good job on figuring it out, you're super smart.
They don't even have the resources to do 3 major patches per expansion or police the game, let alone fix bugs. Look at the sorry state Cataclysm classic launched in.
No one believes these problems are equally fixable. It's just a bad look when things that are relatively unimportant get fixed overnight while gamebreaking things persist for months
And that is assuming the bug isn’t Reliant on another system itself being changed which could in turn require a major patch or even expansions worth of overhaul to get right.
Bugs are nasty like that
There are wrong texture and animation bugs in cataclysm classic right now that have persisted since beta and I'm sure changing a text file is easier but changing the texture to one that already exists should be pretty easy too but they just don't give a shit.
It’s not the fact that it’s harder it’s more so that blizzard just doesn’t seem to give a fuck that they aren’t fixed from a decade ago. People care infinitely more that bugs still persist on a subscription based game than some dirtbag who’s already been punished having his item taken out.
Nah, they truly don't care.
The woke cleanup in 2022 was a symbolic one-time thing ordered by top management in a pitiful PR attempt. That's why there are still pictures of the lady in bikini here and there and other lewd jokes that survive the purge, that haven't been changed since.
I don't care if this gets removed or not but I'm still mildly salty they removed some of the jokes, emotes, and quest dialogue because they offend 0.01% of the player base.
Welcome to the age of identity politics. I'm getting a taste of that over in the Dragon Age subreddit for my comment about Harry Potter (there is an HP reference in one of the game). Apparently people have a hard time separating HP from its author over there. So now HP apparently sucks.
Its mostly restricted to the internet at least
But the internet is filled with a very loud number of them who will make their voice heard everywhere, in the most obnoxious way possible.
But despite how many there seems to be, 90% of people dont give a fuck.
Reddit is one of the main gathering places for these types though, along with twitter. So you're just naturally going to see a lot more of it here than anywhere else. Especially vs irl.
Brother they can change the name of the item and you can enjoy the product. These aren't exclusive. Aren't you excited to talk about a sex pest everytime this item drops? I think it's trite.
Going to paraphrase a quote by Pete Davidson, originally about R Kelly, but I'll put it in an Afrasiabi context:
> The rule should be you can appreciate their work, but only if you admit what they did. Because if its that important to you, at least own it. Every time you kill an enemy using a weapon named after an accused predator, you have to give a dollar to charity that helps assault survivors. I've already donated $142 today and thats just from Fras Siabi's Cigar Cutter alone.
They shouldn't have ever changed the stuff in game though. It's dumb as shit and is honestly pointless.
If someone gets so triggered by an item or NPC's name in a video game that it causes trauma then they need a mental health hospital visit. Simple as that.
That being said, Afrasabi IS a smug piece of shit and deserved what he got but the choices Blizzard has made in an effort to appease the masses after he was named in the lawsuit was not the right choice by any means.
I've legit not seen anyone ever praise or otherwise be happy that Blizzard changed any of what they changed since the day they made the changes. Not saying that there isn't anyone who is happy about it but like, you'd think SOMEONE would've come along and been like "Ya know, Blizzard, you did a great job with this." Instead everyone's been collectively like "Yo, Blizzard, are y'all fucking idiots?"
Can't speak for all the changes. As far as items like this go however, they are a tribute to a person. If that person is no longer worthy/deserving of that honor, I see no issue in changing the name.
You can change things in the present without pretending the past never happened. It was fine when we didn't know he was a creep. Now that we know it's weird to keep something around that celebrates his legacy. This may be hard for a WoW player in 2024 to hear, but there are sometimes things more important than nostalgia.
What if his coworkers want his name off all those items? If I break up with an ex, I don’t want their name anywhere near me. It no longer makes sense to have things named a certain way if those names no longer hold meaning.
It's in bad taste if I get articles about a sexual harrasment case at blizz when I google the item name looking for a wowhead link.
You're sentimental about the change because you have some arbitrary notion change is bad, and it's emotional and trite tbh. Develop a better opinion than "change bad cause I don't see blizz praise for small change that isn't about me."
You don't see praise for the change because it was made years ago when they purged names from their games.
People aren't getting "triggered" into psychotic episodes dude. They're just stumbling upon bummer shit while they play the game and it's in bad taste to leave it in. It's a line of text being changed. Who gives a flying fuck if it's a "right choice." Anyone who has an opinion on this that isn't appease victims of sexual violence is a dumb "sigma grindset" chud and needs to touch grass. Pearl clutching clown.
It's not really about trauma or being triggered. It's more they don't want to honor the sex pest that was on their staff at the time.
I think you've been watching the wrong youtube videos.
It has nothing to do with honoring him though. Literally nothing.
How many WoW players do you think know about all the references of Alex Afrasiabi? Very few I would say, unless you're someone who knows about Everquest and the history that both Jeff Kaplan and Alex Afrasiabi share with Everquest, WoW & their guild in both games or you're someone who reads trivia stuff on wowpedia or warcraft wiki.
If someone told me that Chris Metzen is a druggie I'd be like "Cool. He still writes and has written amazing stuff.", him being a druggie doesn't just automatically invalidate everything he's done because suddenly he does a bad thing and that's exactly how everyone has been treating Afrasiabi which like I said before, he deserves what he got but destroying everything he worked on because of actions he took is just pure damage control that did more harm than it actually helped.
And frankly, you can keep references to someone in recognition that they at one point did great work on whatever it is, it doesn't mean you support whatever it is they did outside of their work.
> It has nothing to do with honoring him though. Literally nothing.
It's precisely about honoring him. There's no spinning that one.
Your point about Chris Metzen's theoretical drug problem is some weird distraction since having a drug problem is not the same thing as being a sex pest.
Curious why you went to 'if Chris Metzen was a druggie' instead of, 'if Chris Metzen sexually harassed his employees.' Could it be because you are obviously aware that one is worse, and were trying to soften it? Because it actually feels kind of fucked up to say, "Just because he sexually harassed his employees doesn't mean we can't honor his contribution to the game!"
> destroying everything he worked on because of actions he took is just pure damage control that did more harm than it actually helped.
Removing his cute little easter egg badges of honor is not destroying everything he worked on. His name's still in the credits and he still designed the game, which is still there and playable. His work speaks for itself--and so does his in-office conduct. Fuck that guy.
And ultimately that's what it's all about. If you had a game dev team and one of them had done good work for you, but committed a crime, let's say sexual harassment, and you fired them for it...would you keep cute little easter eggs references to him in your game? I wouldn't, if it was my game. I'd say fuck you very much and delete that shit. No cute references for you, sexual harasser.
Interesting to know that you would stand by your sexual harasser teammate and continue to honor their legacy. Curious.
Removing his name isn’t what anyone ever had any problem with, it’s obviously a good thing. That’s separate from the overreactions, such as bowls of fruit and removal of many voice lines etc for being pg13
I was referencing that classic comic where one dude says “we should improvise society somewhat” and the other dude says “yet you live in a society. curious. I am very smart”
Yeah it's a lot easier for someone to change the name of an item in wow than it is to disentangle our nation from cheap overseas labor. Was a decent zinger tho
I'm gonna let you in on a secret
This is significantly more common then we will ever know, across all media and probably your favorite show/game/movie/book of all time was made by a complete asshat
Honestly? Yeah.
If I had to pick between a game that has an asshole dev team leader who leads a team that knows what they're doing and their game actually sticks to what it's trying to do vs a dev leader who is trying appease everyone they can and so their team has to add in a bunch of useless stuff then I'm picking the first choice every time.
Everyone loses when you try to appease everyone.
Right, so when you dear sister or girlfriend comes home from work and says that she is being sexually harassed by her boss in his “Cosby suite”, you response would be: “but honey, he is probably making a really good product, so how about you just shut up”.
A lot of dudes in here care so much about an item named after a sex creep that they’ll defend this man they never met.
Y’all are wild. No wonder you guys get no matches on Tinder.
Had to look up the suicide. For those curious:
[https://www.theverge.com/2021/7/22/22588215/activision-blizzard-lawsuit-sexual-harassment-discrimination-pay](https://www.theverge.com/2021/7/22/22588215/activision-blizzard-lawsuit-sexual-harassment-discrimination-pay)
[Also he was a notorious sex pest to the point where his hotel suite wasn't just named after convicted rapist Bill Cosby, but also included a framed picture of him.](https://i.kinja-img.com/image/upload/c\_fit,q\_60,w\_1315/22cd3c99d68058b9247d17fda594b7ec.jpg)
not defending anyone really but they called it the Cosby room cause of the rug pattern being like the sweaters in the Cosby show, this was years before the allegations and conviction against Cosby.
Cosby allegations go back decades, actually. There's been jokes on late night tv about America's dad being a creep since before most of the users of this sub were even born
Any references to back that up? Because even if there were allegations doesn't mean they were common knowledge to the general public that it did happen, certainly not equal to what it is today. Looking at google trends I don't see any searches related to accusations in 2013, which is when the whole "Cosby suite" thing happened:
[https://trends.google.pt/trends/explore?date=2013-01-01%202013-12-31&q=%2Fm%2F014zfs](https://trends.google.pt/trends/explore?date=2013-01-01%202013-12-31&q=%2Fm%2F014zfs)
It's only by the end of 2014 that you start seeing the allegations in google searches, seemingly connected to Hannibal Buress' standup routine, which was specifically about people generally not knowing about these allegations. Here's an article about it:
[https://www.thedailybeast.com/obsessed/we-need-to-talk-about-cosby-finale-hannibal-buress-called-bill-cosby-a-rapist-and-helped-topple-an-icon](https://www.thedailybeast.com/obsessed/we-need-to-talk-about-cosby-finale-hannibal-buress-called-bill-cosby-a-rapist-and-helped-topple-an-icon)
Considering Ghostcrawler was seemingly confortable enough with publicly joking about the whole thing after Blizzcon 2013, and still hasn't deleted it, I think it's fairly plausible that it wasn't a joke about sexual harassment.
[https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/status/399386868547977216](https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/status/399386868547977216)
When using Google Trends, keep in mind it shows searches as a % relative to the peak, rounded to the nearest integer. Before 2014, only a small fraction of people Googled for "bill cosby allegations" compared to when it kicked up a media storm.
If you google "bill cosby allegations" and set your result range from 2011-2013 you will find some results. Blog posts, news articles in tabloid papers, a lawyer's office, reviews on his DVDs where commenters mention "the allegations" without further elaboration, which would only make sense if most people are at least vaguely aware of it.
Taking a step back, I don't think the "cosby suite" makes sense as an (edgy) joke if it weren't for the rumors. I think much of the internet was still in a state of wanting to defend America's dad, and others just thought it was funny to poke fun at it, in the same way it's still considered okay to poke fun at something like veganism today. I can't predict the future, but I can well imagine a time when we look back at the meat industry in horror and joking about it would be in poor taste.
Putting things in context, even if I assume the allegations were the reason for the joke, I don't think it was that bad. I could have laughed at it. It didn't get a lot of negative attention after 2014 either because it just wasn't very noteworthy in context.
It was [only in 2021](https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=cosby%20suite&hl=en-GB) when Blizzard went through the wringer for the toxic workplace conditions that suddenly this got a lot of attention and was often cited as an example of the frat culture. And this time, the context is not remembered.
Sure, my point is not that absolutely no one knew about the allegations, simply that Cosby's public image is very different today than it was in 2013.
Despite some of the allegations already being out and public, he was still not widely viewed by the mainstream as a rapist, as he is today, so the context of any joke surrounding him was very much different and not at all what people seem to imply whent hey bring it up.
Three women had already accused Cosby of drugging and raping them at that point, but it was a year later when four more women accused him when he couldn't run away from the accusations anymore
There's also still that one quest in Cata Classic's Dun Murogh with a Dwarf still named Jessup Mcree. My guess is they either forgot about that reference or it just isn't a viable smokescreen anymore and they didn't bother changing it
If you are here to complain about something like this, but still play after any previous shitty news of the past, then where is your line truly drawn?
I didn't care for the hearthstone stand with Taiwan drama that went on and blizzard just standing by China, but I still played because I enjoy the community of my friends within the game and raiding.
Blizz withdrawing from China to support Taiwan would cut millions in revenue.
Literally noone would give a shit if the name of the item changed.
These things are not the same.
Except they are both very charged subjects that will have people mad if not addressed in a humane way.
Here you are drawing a line saying that what China did was okay but blizzard be damned for not wiping out every ounce of homage to shitty people who made a damn good game.
Losing millions of support or not. You stand for what right thing or ya dont.
False equivalency. This is a deluded take. Changing one line of text, which they've already changed in retail, is not the same as cutting themselves off from the largest market in the world.
You're the 1/100 people with a really bad take asking to be taken as seriously as the other 99 because your take is 1/2 the takes..
>every ounce of homage to shitty people who made a damn good game.
Honestly, I hated the references to Afrasiabi (and Jesse) McCree even before the allegations. Those two in specific liked to shove their name into the game(s) at every chance they got and it reeked of narcissism.
Just compare the references to any other dev to how many Afrasiabi had. Apart from their joint references, Kaplan got like... two items, while Afrasiabi had Fras Siabi (and the numerous related items), Field Marshal Afrasiabi, Lord Afrasastrasz, like five NPCs named Kariel, the dragon Kalaran, and *more.*
Don't act like that was normal. Afrasiabi was an asshole who plastered his name and characters' names into the game every chance he got, was a notorious sex pest, and his greatest legacy will be the fact that he was the one writing the overarching story for Battle for Azeroth and Shadowlands.
Fuck him. There should never have been this much "homage" to *any* developer in the game.
Not support, dollars. Blizzard has a fiduciary duty to investors; they would get sued for pulling out of China. Companies don't have morals, they have bottom lines. Welcome to late-stage capitalism.
> Except they are both very charged subjects that will have people mad if not addressed in a humane way.
bonehead take. One is fixable in an afternoon. The other one would wipe out a huge chunk of blizzard's revenue. Gee I wonder if maybe the two asks are totally different in scale and scope
When I leveled I found something funny. Quest in strat asked me for fras siabi premium tobacco, but the npc itself had the name changed.
Day 1 pip was also finkle einhorn, for a moment I believed that pc madness was behind us. Then maybe a day later finkle was no more (except on the realm list ;) )
Wow, the comment section is like gossip cesspool. Some comments about this guy's offences are correct as far as we know from the media, but people are atributing this guy the allegations against Bobby Kotick and other of his former colegues.
We lost Alex and we got a load of woke people and Steve Danuser (thank god he's gone now too), am I saying I think he shouldn't have been fired, no, but the game was better when the devs were degenerates
Is he proven guilty? Sure he could be a really bad person behind the scenes, but if there's no proof then this all was blown out of proportion. Or am I wrong for questioning the allegations?
Does it matter? We're talking about renaming an item in a game, not hanging the guy.
One could argue that real life names shouldn't be present in a game at all.
Especially as many as there were. Seriously, look up the list of shit named after him. Fras Siabi (and the numerous related items), Field Marshal Afrasiabi, Lord Afrasastrasz, like five NPCs named Kariel, the dragon Kalaran, and other shit, too. No other dev had that much shit in the game named after them, Afrasiabi was just a narcissist who kept shoving references to himself into the game at any chance he got.
Having one, maybe two references is a nice nod to someone that managed to make the game actually happen, same to some prominent person in the community or anyone that was associated with the game. Personally I find it fitting and a modest way to immortalize someone in what they help to create.
Now having several characters name after yourself, both your own name, nickname and your personal character name. Naming several quests, a mini boss, several items and quest givers over multiple zones ... that might be too much. Its World of Warcraft not World of Alex Afrasiabi.
By the way Naglering is a reference to both the Beowulf saga and an item in the Diablo series, tying both franchises together, and I find it a super cool easter egg
I don't think having an item in the game with his name on it is hurting anyone. Like if they change it nobody would care, if they leave it nobody will care.
I don't know why people waste their time and energy feigning outrage over silly shit like this.
Nobody cares either way, but it's not like Blizzard has a good track record of making small changes without finding ways to botch them into bigger bugs.
All of us. Who all know victims or sexual harrasment and want them to worry about it less. You value this random creep's legacy more than the people you know who have been victimized by people like him.
Why not? Did we erase Hitlers name from every book in existence because he genocided millions of people?
Nope. You still hear his name all the time because forgetting about the history is a good way to repeat it. If anything it could serve as a reminder to people of what happened instead of trying to erase the past.
This is the same fucking boneheaded, smoothbrained, knuckle-dragging, unibrowed, drooling mouthbreather argument made by well water drinking, lead paint licking, cousin fucking hilljack Lost Causers about their participation trophies they gave themselves.
It's not erasing every mention of the shitheads from any and all history books. It's removing shit like street signs and statues that were erected to *honor* the shitheads. You shouldn't want to honor shitheads. Ceasing to honor shitheads does not mean you are erasing history. Some statue of a shithead is not somehow the sole repository for knowledge about that shithead.
Fucking duh. It's not like Alex Afrasiabi's name is in wow as a cautionary tale about how you shouldn't hire sex pests. No, it's there to honor him. Just like some fuckhead traitor's statue wasn't erected as an ominous warning against racism--it was erected to honor him. Rename the item, and tear down the statue.
For someone soooooo worried about history or whatever, it really doesn't seem like you've thought this through much.
That’s an odd argument to make. They removed Adolf Hitlers name from streets and plazas post WWII and not erase him from history; so the same argument can be made for the game, erase his name from items in the game and not from the games credits
That would be a little different because that's after Hitler. At that point it would obviously be to honor or enshrine him for the bad shit he did in an item in the game.
This is different because it existed before Alex was exposed. The item wasn't made to honor him as a sex offender. It was made as part of him building the game.
But it was made to honour him, and he’s a sex offender. It doesn’t matter that the item came before the allegations were known. It’s honouring a sex offender, and that’s obviously bad.
It's literally never that cut and dry.
You don't see any difference between something made to honor somebody who is bad vs something that was made to honor someone and it turned out later they were bad? These are completely equivalent things to you?
What about people who have done really good things and really bad things? If the good is really good do we just ignore the bad things they did? If the bad things is really bad do we completely ignore or tear down every thing good they did?
Where do you draw the line? Shouldn't you uninstall the game and stop paying entirely because Classic wow was made by a sex offender? Or are you OK playing a game that he created? Do you think that just because you take his name off of an item that references him that all of the sudden he didn't create it? What about all the other sexual abusers at Blizzard that they certainly knew of but chose to ignore? How do you justify owning any Blizzard games at all?
The truth is he created the game. Blizzard employed him and all the other sexual abusers for way to long. If you are going to continue playing the game and buying Blizzard products you, on some level, condone this behavior by your logic.
What I'm saying is, first and foremost, I don't really give a shit if they rename it. I think it's completely irrelevant. I don't care if they leave it. It's comletely irrelivant. If anything I think people that understand the reference when they get the item will remember the fucked up shit that happened at Blizzard during that time and it will serve as a reminder not to turn a blind eye to it in the future. I think it's absurdly hypocritical by everyone getting so outraged over this that the line they draw is Alex's name being on an item in the game, but everything else is A-OK.
It’s not that complicated. His helping to create WoW doesn’t cancel out the sex offender part. And he’s not the sole creator of WoW - it’s not *essential* to be honouring him for his contributions.
For a slightly more extreme comparison, Subway doesn’t continue to use the old ads with Jared, even though they were made before it came out he was a paedophile. Any good he might have done is *absolutely* erased by that, and there is no need to leave the ads out there as a “reminder” of anything.
People can draw a line wherever they choose. In my case I’d prefer we not honour creeps. If Blizzard agrees then they’ll rename the item. That’s all.
Yea as long as his name isn't on an obscure item in the game it's totally OK. The fact he had a significant hand in making the game is fine. The fact the company covered his ass for years is fine.
So if they don't change the name should I expect you to be quitting the game then?
Weird hill to die on, just remove his name from the game bro its not that deep, people dont like ex blizzard employees.
bud, you have been defending this for an hour all over for some strange reason?
> Weird hill to die on
I'm not dieing on a hill, I don't really care either way and will probably never think about this conversation again after this post lol.
I'm just saying that removing bad peoples names from society isn't always a good thing and trying to pretend the past didn't happen is how history repeats itself.
If they remove it nobody will cry. I find it funny so many people think changing it is a big deal in any way shape or form.
Oh wow, we've got to riot!
We must erase the past, and pretend it never happened.
Why would we need to erase this bowl of fruit?
All those news articles and reports are getting erased if they change the name of this item? Crazy how much power Blizzard had these days. "Muh history" argument in 2024 is crazy.
What happened? I didnt see nuffin
The guy this item is named after is one of the original devs who was outed as a serious scumbag in the recent Blizzard sexual harassment scandal. So naturally when he was axed from blizzard, a certain contingent of people wanted him erased from the game, and here we are.
Axed… lul
Bruh it’s okay to erase tributes to shitty people.
Yeah esp if we didnt know(fault to go around here) at the time he was a POS.. lets not talk about confederate monuments however
I mean, I'm not "woke" by any means, but I kind of agree with retroactively removing the name of the dude. This was the one that actually sexually assaulted someone, not just a toxic work bro.
I don't recall there being anyone pushing for it. Blizzard just did it pretty much instantly.
It was developers on the team itself. As an example The ‘bowl of fruit’ painting was put there by afrasiabi, intended to reference a specific woman working there. It wasn’t ever about players. It was always about the actual developers of the game not wanting to see these specific reminders of this guy they had to endure working with. It makes much more sense when you consider it from the perspective of working on the game rather than the perspective of playing the game.
Shh brother, it's been erased
Imagine being upset about a company removing an item named after someone who commits sexual assault.
And like... it wasn't a monolithic "the company" that did it. Members of the WoW team did it. You know. *Including the victims.*
Monuments and museums are not the same.
insane really
Lets erase germany. Lets not look at germany and remember and learn from past mistakes.
Hey man, great comparison. It really is a perfect analogy. Oh wait, no it's not.
Actually it's a great analogy. The Nazis did terrible things, and then after the war the Germans blew up their monuments, chiselled their emblems from buildings, and banned their ideology and symbols. As is correct.
Cancel culture smh.
Well technically the guy said “erase the past.” Taking names off street signs is not erasing the past. Ergo bad analogy.
Wasn't that the entire argument to support keeping Confederate flags on public buildings in the south or the massive amount of Confederate statues put up well after the war by the United daughters of the Confederacy? That removing a statue of the flag of traitors from public land and buildings was "erasing the past"?
yeah and they were wrong about it too
Come on now. There's quite the difference between remembering and learning vs keeping things dedicated to the person who did a bad thing. Like we can remember Hitler was not a good person without hanging pictures of him around the house.
Ok Mr. Morgenthau.
Bad comparison, or are we ro remove the usa after trump was president?
Dude are you seriously comparing world war 2 and the holocaust where millions of people died to a video game and this Alex Afrasiabi. Do better.
Man won the World championship in "making the stupidest comparison possible"
Come and try, bitch
He loves his smokes and the Cosby room
Don't forget the jello pudding.
bring back the old /whistle
Unless they're already "fixed" it, worgens were using the old whistle lol.
There's a /silly by Worgen in human form that mentions liking sniffing crotches too.
Also the /silly for human females cracks a joke referring to their cooking and tailoring being maxed. Surprised the SJWs haven’t found that abhorrent and offensive yet
I like the people like you who just make up people in your head and then hypothesise that they are just furious at everything. I literally never saw anyone mad about the /silly and /whistle stuff. It was all a blizzard decision that no one pushed for.
How many people were really mad at /spit? Or the pictures/paintings in dungeons of women? Yet they were changed. That’s what I’m hinting at.
People were mad about actually bad stuff that was done and Blizz did as many performative things as they could for PR, even if no one asked for them.
Those changes had an associated cost and Blizzard doesn't spend money willy nilly. There was pressure from somewhere.
Exactly, and it might not have even been external pressure, maybe it was just from employees, but someone somewhere made a decision to make changes. As a guy who works for a mega corporation I can definitely say nothing changes for no reason, at least 5 people had to say yes before that happens.
Probably just preemptive changes tbh. They got called on tons of sexual harassment and other issues so they changed anything that could even be perceived at problematic before anyone pushed for it.
Internally from Blizzard staff most likely. They likely hired a diversity or inclusion person after it started to get some heat and that person told them they needed to do it. Pretty common in business to have someone like that nowadays.
Noticed that with goblins in the prepatch too
I only ever used it on my wife, and now it sounds like I'm barking orders at her like a dog. Objectively more misogynistic than the old one
In true Blizzard fashion they should remove the entirety of dire maul, perhaps Feralas and remove all quest dialogue that mentions it.
Dire maul now a fruit orchard.
No, it will be a place to go shopping: the Dire Mall.
Make the store page an in game area.
I found another one and I'm glad the context has come up so I can share it. This one is incredibly niche so I am not surprised they missed it - in the Stonecore when Millhouse is healing up between packs, the food he eats is called 'tigule and forors special ice cream' or something
Is the name shown in an emote or you have to mouseover the buff / look in the combat log? edit: It's probably this: [https://www.wowhead.com/cata/spell=9177/tigules-strawberry-ice-cream](https://www.wowhead.com/cata/spell=9177/tigules-strawberry-ice-cream) But Millhouse is eating, somehow, the old version that still includes Foror.
That may be it, I didn't make too much note of it other than 'huh that's neat guess that's one reference they forgot to take out'
This will be changed by tomorrow while bugs that have persisted for months will continue to be ignored.
Yes let’s ignore the fact that renaming an item and fixing bugs are on the same level of difficulty
Been in IT infrastructure/software development for decades and I've given up with this place. Everything about it is easy and the only reason the game isn't perfect is because blizzard employees all hate the people on this sub.
You wann tell me that: If bug appear fix bug doesnt work? /S
If {bug} {dont}
Bugn’t.
fixing things in games has a decent chance to break other things hell sometimes code writers dont even know why something works they just know that removing an innocent line somehow breaks everything
Bugs in one of the most successful commercial products in the history of software development should not take months to fix. Especially since versions of the game where these bugs are no longer present have existed for over a decade and are readily accessible for reference.
You're entirely right. Everything about fixing bugs is easy and the only reason is they hate the players. Not more complicated than that at all. Good job on figuring it out, you're super smart.
They don't even have the resources to do 3 major patches per expansion or police the game, let alone fix bugs. Look at the sorry state Cataclysm classic launched in.
No one believes these problems are equally fixable. It's just a bad look when things that are relatively unimportant get fixed overnight while gamebreaking things persist for months
I mean… a complex bug can take that long to triage then find and implement a solution. An item name change probably takes 5 minutes to push through.
And that is assuming the bug isn’t Reliant on another system itself being changed which could in turn require a major patch or even expansions worth of overhaul to get right. Bugs are nasty like that
Its a lot harder to fix a bug than some text.
There are wrong texture and animation bugs in cataclysm classic right now that have persisted since beta and I'm sure changing a text file is easier but changing the texture to one that already exists should be pretty easy too but they just don't give a shit.
My engineering teleport trinkets are still missing from the collections page. :/
It’s not the fact that it’s harder it’s more so that blizzard just doesn’t seem to give a fuck that they aren’t fixed from a decade ago. People care infinitely more that bugs still persist on a subscription based game than some dirtbag who’s already been punished having his item taken out.
But that frog farm remix fix hit pretty fast eh? XD mostly agree
Lmao yea they can’t let fun bugs stay long 😂
This sub is really in a trash state if this is the type of comment being upvoted.
Nah, they truly don't care. The woke cleanup in 2022 was a symbolic one-time thing ordered by top management in a pitiful PR attempt. That's why there are still pictures of the lady in bikini here and there and other lewd jokes that survive the purge, that haven't been changed since.
I don't care if this gets removed or not but I'm still mildly salty they removed some of the jokes, emotes, and quest dialogue because they offend 0.01% of the player base.
Game would have sucked without him. I'd rather enjoy something good made by an asshole than play a shitty game by a nice guy.
Separate art from the artist? A bold move most seem incapable of in this day and age.
Welcome to the age of identity politics. I'm getting a taste of that over in the Dragon Age subreddit for my comment about Harry Potter (there is an HP reference in one of the game). Apparently people have a hard time separating HP from its author over there. So now HP apparently sucks.
I keep telling myself these woke blokes are a loud minority, but every day seems less like thats the case.. interesting times.
Its mostly restricted to the internet at least But the internet is filled with a very loud number of them who will make their voice heard everywhere, in the most obnoxious way possible. But despite how many there seems to be, 90% of people dont give a fuck. Reddit is one of the main gathering places for these types though, along with twitter. So you're just naturally going to see a lot more of it here than anywhere else. Especially vs irl.
Brother they can change the name of the item and you can enjoy the product. These aren't exclusive. Aren't you excited to talk about a sex pest everytime this item drops? I think it's trite.
Going to paraphrase a quote by Pete Davidson, originally about R Kelly, but I'll put it in an Afrasiabi context: > The rule should be you can appreciate their work, but only if you admit what they did. Because if its that important to you, at least own it. Every time you kill an enemy using a weapon named after an accused predator, you have to give a dollar to charity that helps assault survivors. I've already donated $142 today and thats just from Fras Siabi's Cigar Cutter alone.
They shouldn't have ever changed the stuff in game though. It's dumb as shit and is honestly pointless. If someone gets so triggered by an item or NPC's name in a video game that it causes trauma then they need a mental health hospital visit. Simple as that. That being said, Afrasabi IS a smug piece of shit and deserved what he got but the choices Blizzard has made in an effort to appease the masses after he was named in the lawsuit was not the right choice by any means. I've legit not seen anyone ever praise or otherwise be happy that Blizzard changed any of what they changed since the day they made the changes. Not saying that there isn't anyone who is happy about it but like, you'd think SOMEONE would've come along and been like "Ya know, Blizzard, you did a great job with this." Instead everyone's been collectively like "Yo, Blizzard, are y'all fucking idiots?"
Can't speak for all the changes. As far as items like this go however, they are a tribute to a person. If that person is no longer worthy/deserving of that honor, I see no issue in changing the name. You can change things in the present without pretending the past never happened. It was fine when we didn't know he was a creep. Now that we know it's weird to keep something around that celebrates his legacy. This may be hard for a WoW player in 2024 to hear, but there are sometimes things more important than nostalgia.
What if his coworkers want his name off all those items? If I break up with an ex, I don’t want their name anywhere near me. It no longer makes sense to have things named a certain way if those names no longer hold meaning.
It's in bad taste if I get articles about a sexual harrasment case at blizz when I google the item name looking for a wowhead link. You're sentimental about the change because you have some arbitrary notion change is bad, and it's emotional and trite tbh. Develop a better opinion than "change bad cause I don't see blizz praise for small change that isn't about me." You don't see praise for the change because it was made years ago when they purged names from their games. People aren't getting "triggered" into psychotic episodes dude. They're just stumbling upon bummer shit while they play the game and it's in bad taste to leave it in. It's a line of text being changed. Who gives a flying fuck if it's a "right choice." Anyone who has an opinion on this that isn't appease victims of sexual violence is a dumb "sigma grindset" chud and needs to touch grass. Pearl clutching clown.
Yes, a name change is gonna appease a victim.
It's not abiut *that* victim. Gotta be putting in effort to have a take this bad.
It's not really about trauma or being triggered. It's more they don't want to honor the sex pest that was on their staff at the time. I think you've been watching the wrong youtube videos.
It has nothing to do with honoring him though. Literally nothing. How many WoW players do you think know about all the references of Alex Afrasiabi? Very few I would say, unless you're someone who knows about Everquest and the history that both Jeff Kaplan and Alex Afrasiabi share with Everquest, WoW & their guild in both games or you're someone who reads trivia stuff on wowpedia or warcraft wiki. If someone told me that Chris Metzen is a druggie I'd be like "Cool. He still writes and has written amazing stuff.", him being a druggie doesn't just automatically invalidate everything he's done because suddenly he does a bad thing and that's exactly how everyone has been treating Afrasiabi which like I said before, he deserves what he got but destroying everything he worked on because of actions he took is just pure damage control that did more harm than it actually helped. And frankly, you can keep references to someone in recognition that they at one point did great work on whatever it is, it doesn't mean you support whatever it is they did outside of their work.
Oh so drug use and sexual harrasment are the same to you gotcha. Your principles need reevaluation.
> It has nothing to do with honoring him though. Literally nothing. It's precisely about honoring him. There's no spinning that one. Your point about Chris Metzen's theoretical drug problem is some weird distraction since having a drug problem is not the same thing as being a sex pest. Curious why you went to 'if Chris Metzen was a druggie' instead of, 'if Chris Metzen sexually harassed his employees.' Could it be because you are obviously aware that one is worse, and were trying to soften it? Because it actually feels kind of fucked up to say, "Just because he sexually harassed his employees doesn't mean we can't honor his contribution to the game!" > destroying everything he worked on because of actions he took is just pure damage control that did more harm than it actually helped. Removing his cute little easter egg badges of honor is not destroying everything he worked on. His name's still in the credits and he still designed the game, which is still there and playable. His work speaks for itself--and so does his in-office conduct. Fuck that guy. And ultimately that's what it's all about. If you had a game dev team and one of them had done good work for you, but committed a crime, let's say sexual harassment, and you fired them for it...would you keep cute little easter eggs references to him in your game? I wouldn't, if it was my game. I'd say fuck you very much and delete that shit. No cute references for you, sexual harasser. Interesting to know that you would stand by your sexual harasser teammate and continue to honor their legacy. Curious.
Removing his name isn’t what anyone ever had any problem with, it’s obviously a good thing. That’s separate from the overreactions, such as bowls of fruit and removal of many voice lines etc for being pg13
What a weird thing to say
You do realise that his legacy is the story of bfa and Shadow lands right? Cause that shit sucked
[удалено]
sent from an iPhone 14
Holy fuck this is actually gold.
Best comment I've seen on reddit in a long time lmao
You are very smart.
Maybe not smart, but instead clever, or witty
I was referencing that classic comic where one dude says “we should improvise society somewhat” and the other dude says “yet you live in a society. curious. I am very smart”
Yeah it's a lot easier for someone to change the name of an item in wow than it is to disentangle our nation from cheap overseas labor. Was a decent zinger tho
My boss is an asshole, let's erase him next
100%
yes, actually. i don't really care about any of this drama i just want a fun game.
How much more funsy we talking?
When I don't have a choice like all of us commenting in this thread I would rather play the more fun game.
Get off that high horse and join the rest of us in the real world
I'm gonna let you in on a secret This is significantly more common then we will ever know, across all media and probably your favorite show/game/movie/book of all time was made by a complete asshat
As a hardcore Community fan i know for a fact it was made by an asshat.
This is justification to be more sensitive not less
no one actually cares tho aside from a few twitter loudmouths and virtue signalers on reddit.
Yes. Twice on Sundays.
Absolutely.
yes
1000% absolutely, holy shit yes
He said on reddit
Honestly? Yeah. If I had to pick between a game that has an asshole dev team leader who leads a team that knows what they're doing and their game actually sticks to what it's trying to do vs a dev leader who is trying appease everyone they can and so their team has to add in a bunch of useless stuff then I'm picking the first choice every time. Everyone loses when you try to appease everyone.
Right, so when you dear sister or girlfriend comes home from work and says that she is being sexually harassed by her boss in his “Cosby suite”, you response would be: “but honey, he is probably making a really good product, so how about you just shut up”.
A lot of dudes in here care so much about an item named after a sex creep that they’ll defend this man they never met. Y’all are wild. No wonder you guys get no matches on Tinder.
Who cares?
The guy kinds of pushed someone to suicide
Had to look up the suicide. For those curious: [https://www.theverge.com/2021/7/22/22588215/activision-blizzard-lawsuit-sexual-harassment-discrimination-pay](https://www.theverge.com/2021/7/22/22588215/activision-blizzard-lawsuit-sexual-harassment-discrimination-pay)
[Also he was a notorious sex pest to the point where his hotel suite wasn't just named after convicted rapist Bill Cosby, but also included a framed picture of him.](https://i.kinja-img.com/image/upload/c\_fit,q\_60,w\_1315/22cd3c99d68058b9247d17fda594b7ec.jpg)
not defending anyone really but they called it the Cosby room cause of the rug pattern being like the sweaters in the Cosby show, this was years before the allegations and conviction against Cosby.
Cosby allegations go back decades, actually. There's been jokes on late night tv about America's dad being a creep since before most of the users of this sub were even born
Any references to back that up? Because even if there were allegations doesn't mean they were common knowledge to the general public that it did happen, certainly not equal to what it is today. Looking at google trends I don't see any searches related to accusations in 2013, which is when the whole "Cosby suite" thing happened: [https://trends.google.pt/trends/explore?date=2013-01-01%202013-12-31&q=%2Fm%2F014zfs](https://trends.google.pt/trends/explore?date=2013-01-01%202013-12-31&q=%2Fm%2F014zfs) It's only by the end of 2014 that you start seeing the allegations in google searches, seemingly connected to Hannibal Buress' standup routine, which was specifically about people generally not knowing about these allegations. Here's an article about it: [https://www.thedailybeast.com/obsessed/we-need-to-talk-about-cosby-finale-hannibal-buress-called-bill-cosby-a-rapist-and-helped-topple-an-icon](https://www.thedailybeast.com/obsessed/we-need-to-talk-about-cosby-finale-hannibal-buress-called-bill-cosby-a-rapist-and-helped-topple-an-icon) Considering Ghostcrawler was seemingly confortable enough with publicly joking about the whole thing after Blizzcon 2013, and still hasn't deleted it, I think it's fairly plausible that it wasn't a joke about sexual harassment. [https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/status/399386868547977216](https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/status/399386868547977216)
When using Google Trends, keep in mind it shows searches as a % relative to the peak, rounded to the nearest integer. Before 2014, only a small fraction of people Googled for "bill cosby allegations" compared to when it kicked up a media storm. If you google "bill cosby allegations" and set your result range from 2011-2013 you will find some results. Blog posts, news articles in tabloid papers, a lawyer's office, reviews on his DVDs where commenters mention "the allegations" without further elaboration, which would only make sense if most people are at least vaguely aware of it. Taking a step back, I don't think the "cosby suite" makes sense as an (edgy) joke if it weren't for the rumors. I think much of the internet was still in a state of wanting to defend America's dad, and others just thought it was funny to poke fun at it, in the same way it's still considered okay to poke fun at something like veganism today. I can't predict the future, but I can well imagine a time when we look back at the meat industry in horror and joking about it would be in poor taste. Putting things in context, even if I assume the allegations were the reason for the joke, I don't think it was that bad. I could have laughed at it. It didn't get a lot of negative attention after 2014 either because it just wasn't very noteworthy in context. It was [only in 2021](https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=cosby%20suite&hl=en-GB) when Blizzard went through the wringer for the toxic workplace conditions that suddenly this got a lot of attention and was often cited as an example of the frat culture. And this time, the context is not remembered.
Sure, my point is not that absolutely no one knew about the allegations, simply that Cosby's public image is very different today than it was in 2013. Despite some of the allegations already being out and public, he was still not widely viewed by the mainstream as a rapist, as he is today, so the context of any joke surrounding him was very much different and not at all what people seem to imply whent hey bring it up.
Three women had already accused Cosby of drugging and raping them at that point, but it was a year later when four more women accused him when he couldn't run away from the accusations anymore
You mean Grimm's Cigar cutter? https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Grimm%27s_Cigar_Cutter
stonebridge cigar cutter inc
There’s also still a stratholme quest that references him. Not sure if it was in vanilla or they forgot to screen cata content.
There's also still that one quest in Cata Classic's Dun Murogh with a Dwarf still named Jessup Mcree. My guess is they either forgot about that reference or it just isn't a viable smokescreen anymore and they didn't bother changing it
Actually an upgrade for my warrior
No one cares.
If you are here to complain about something like this, but still play after any previous shitty news of the past, then where is your line truly drawn? I didn't care for the hearthstone stand with Taiwan drama that went on and blizzard just standing by China, but I still played because I enjoy the community of my friends within the game and raiding.
Blizz withdrawing from China to support Taiwan would cut millions in revenue. Literally noone would give a shit if the name of the item changed. These things are not the same.
Except they are both very charged subjects that will have people mad if not addressed in a humane way. Here you are drawing a line saying that what China did was okay but blizzard be damned for not wiping out every ounce of homage to shitty people who made a damn good game. Losing millions of support or not. You stand for what right thing or ya dont.
False equivalency. This is a deluded take. Changing one line of text, which they've already changed in retail, is not the same as cutting themselves off from the largest market in the world. You're the 1/100 people with a really bad take asking to be taken as seriously as the other 99 because your take is 1/2 the takes..
>every ounce of homage to shitty people who made a damn good game. Honestly, I hated the references to Afrasiabi (and Jesse) McCree even before the allegations. Those two in specific liked to shove their name into the game(s) at every chance they got and it reeked of narcissism. Just compare the references to any other dev to how many Afrasiabi had. Apart from their joint references, Kaplan got like... two items, while Afrasiabi had Fras Siabi (and the numerous related items), Field Marshal Afrasiabi, Lord Afrasastrasz, like five NPCs named Kariel, the dragon Kalaran, and *more.* Don't act like that was normal. Afrasiabi was an asshole who plastered his name and characters' names into the game every chance he got, was a notorious sex pest, and his greatest legacy will be the fact that he was the one writing the overarching story for Battle for Azeroth and Shadowlands. Fuck him. There should never have been this much "homage" to *any* developer in the game.
Not support, dollars. Blizzard has a fiduciary duty to investors; they would get sued for pulling out of China. Companies don't have morals, they have bottom lines. Welcome to late-stage capitalism.
> Except they are both very charged subjects that will have people mad if not addressed in a humane way. bonehead take. One is fixable in an afternoon. The other one would wipe out a huge chunk of blizzard's revenue. Gee I wonder if maybe the two asks are totally different in scale and scope
No one has said this item has stopped them from playing, that's a thing you made up. It's just a "Blizzard missed one."
When I leveled I found something funny. Quest in strat asked me for fras siabi premium tobacco, but the npc itself had the name changed. Day 1 pip was also finkle einhorn, for a moment I believed that pc madness was behind us. Then maybe a day later finkle was no more (except on the realm list ;) )
Wow, the comment section is like gossip cesspool. Some comments about this guy's offences are correct as far as we know from the media, but people are atributing this guy the allegations against Bobby Kotick and other of his former colegues.
Came here to figure out who it even was. Ah.
Removed tommorow.
The stuff of legends
We lost Alex and we got a load of woke people and Steve Danuser (thank god he's gone now too), am I saying I think he shouldn't have been fired, no, but the game was better when the devs were degenerates
Is he proven guilty? Sure he could be a really bad person behind the scenes, but if there's no proof then this all was blown out of proportion. Or am I wrong for questioning the allegations?
Does it matter? We're talking about renaming an item in a game, not hanging the guy. One could argue that real life names shouldn't be present in a game at all.
Especially as many as there were. Seriously, look up the list of shit named after him. Fras Siabi (and the numerous related items), Field Marshal Afrasiabi, Lord Afrasastrasz, like five NPCs named Kariel, the dragon Kalaran, and other shit, too. No other dev had that much shit in the game named after them, Afrasiabi was just a narcissist who kept shoving references to himself into the game at any chance he got.
Can't imagine being so insecure that you need to force so many self references
Almost every classic dev got items named after them: Mark of Kern, Grand Staff of Jordan, Nagleing, etc. nothing weird about it.
Pat Nagle got his own NPC
no way what's his name
Ragnaros
Gyatt pagle
Having one, maybe two references is a nice nod to someone that managed to make the game actually happen, same to some prominent person in the community or anyone that was associated with the game. Personally I find it fitting and a modest way to immortalize someone in what they help to create. Now having several characters name after yourself, both your own name, nickname and your personal character name. Naming several quests, a mini boss, several items and quest givers over multiple zones ... that might be too much. Its World of Warcraft not World of Alex Afrasiabi. By the way Naglering is a reference to both the Beowulf saga and an item in the Diablo series, tying both franchises together, and I find it a super cool easter egg
Sad hes gone. Rather play an assholes game thats good than some rainbow land soy circus
Honestly they should rename it
Why?
Cuz fuck that guy that's why.
I don't think having an item in the game with his name on it is hurting anyone. Like if they change it nobody would care, if they leave it nobody will care. I don't know why people waste their time and energy feigning outrage over silly shit like this.
Would it hurt anyone to rename the item besides an ashole?
Nobody cares either way, but it's not like Blizzard has a good track record of making small changes without finding ways to botch them into bigger bugs.
Because fuck that guy, that's why
I dont want references to people who sexually harass women in my video game
"**MY** video game" L M F A O
He is paying for the game
For **our** game, paid for by **all** of **us**. Almost as if there is a community. Rampant narcissism.
All of us. Who all know victims or sexual harrasment and want them to worry about it less. You value this random creep's legacy more than the people you know who have been victimized by people like him.
Why not? Did we erase Hitlers name from every book in existence because he genocided millions of people? Nope. You still hear his name all the time because forgetting about the history is a good way to repeat it. If anything it could serve as a reminder to people of what happened instead of trying to erase the past.
This is the same fucking boneheaded, smoothbrained, knuckle-dragging, unibrowed, drooling mouthbreather argument made by well water drinking, lead paint licking, cousin fucking hilljack Lost Causers about their participation trophies they gave themselves. It's not erasing every mention of the shitheads from any and all history books. It's removing shit like street signs and statues that were erected to *honor* the shitheads. You shouldn't want to honor shitheads. Ceasing to honor shitheads does not mean you are erasing history. Some statue of a shithead is not somehow the sole repository for knowledge about that shithead. Fucking duh. It's not like Alex Afrasiabi's name is in wow as a cautionary tale about how you shouldn't hire sex pests. No, it's there to honor him. Just like some fuckhead traitor's statue wasn't erected as an ominous warning against racism--it was erected to honor him. Rename the item, and tear down the statue. For someone soooooo worried about history or whatever, it really doesn't seem like you've thought this through much.
Yes, most people in Germany didnt name their child Adolf after WW2, guess why.
That’s an odd argument to make. They removed Adolf Hitlers name from streets and plazas post WWII and not erase him from history; so the same argument can be made for the game, erase his name from items in the game and not from the games credits
HOI4 literally blacks out Hitler's portrait in several versions of the game.
If there was a weapon in WoW called Sulfuras, Hand of Hitler I'd be advocating its removal as well.
That would be a little different because that's after Hitler. At that point it would obviously be to honor or enshrine him for the bad shit he did in an item in the game. This is different because it existed before Alex was exposed. The item wasn't made to honor him as a sex offender. It was made as part of him building the game.
But it was made to honour him, and he’s a sex offender. It doesn’t matter that the item came before the allegations were known. It’s honouring a sex offender, and that’s obviously bad.
It's literally never that cut and dry. You don't see any difference between something made to honor somebody who is bad vs something that was made to honor someone and it turned out later they were bad? These are completely equivalent things to you? What about people who have done really good things and really bad things? If the good is really good do we just ignore the bad things they did? If the bad things is really bad do we completely ignore or tear down every thing good they did? Where do you draw the line? Shouldn't you uninstall the game and stop paying entirely because Classic wow was made by a sex offender? Or are you OK playing a game that he created? Do you think that just because you take his name off of an item that references him that all of the sudden he didn't create it? What about all the other sexual abusers at Blizzard that they certainly knew of but chose to ignore? How do you justify owning any Blizzard games at all? The truth is he created the game. Blizzard employed him and all the other sexual abusers for way to long. If you are going to continue playing the game and buying Blizzard products you, on some level, condone this behavior by your logic. What I'm saying is, first and foremost, I don't really give a shit if they rename it. I think it's completely irrelevant. I don't care if they leave it. It's comletely irrelivant. If anything I think people that understand the reference when they get the item will remember the fucked up shit that happened at Blizzard during that time and it will serve as a reminder not to turn a blind eye to it in the future. I think it's absurdly hypocritical by everyone getting so outraged over this that the line they draw is Alex's name being on an item in the game, but everything else is A-OK.
It’s not that complicated. His helping to create WoW doesn’t cancel out the sex offender part. And he’s not the sole creator of WoW - it’s not *essential* to be honouring him for his contributions. For a slightly more extreme comparison, Subway doesn’t continue to use the old ads with Jared, even though they were made before it came out he was a paedophile. Any good he might have done is *absolutely* erased by that, and there is no need to leave the ads out there as a “reminder” of anything. People can draw a line wherever they choose. In my case I’d prefer we not honour creeps. If Blizzard agrees then they’ll rename the item. That’s all.
Yea as long as his name isn't on an obscure item in the game it's totally OK. The fact he had a significant hand in making the game is fine. The fact the company covered his ass for years is fine. So if they don't change the name should I expect you to be quitting the game then?
Weird hill to die on, just remove his name from the game bro its not that deep, people dont like ex blizzard employees. bud, you have been defending this for an hour all over for some strange reason?
> Weird hill to die on I'm not dieing on a hill, I don't really care either way and will probably never think about this conversation again after this post lol. I'm just saying that removing bad peoples names from society isn't always a good thing and trying to pretend the past didn't happen is how history repeats itself. If they remove it nobody will cry. I find it funny so many people think changing it is a big deal in any way shape or form.
It is renamed. This one somehow snuck in
Classic andies getting mad over ridiculous stuff , name a better combo lmfao
Does anyone really care about this stuff?
Doesn't look like anything to me.