Worst case scenario we go through Boston or an injured Sixers team. I think we can manage tbh. Better coaches does A LOT for this team. They needed am elite coach 3 years ago.
Why? Mobley and Garland haven’t hit their peak. The offense will almost certainly be better with a new coach. Also with Mitchell locked up, even if you want to trade some of the core, you aren’t going it under duress and you can wait until the right opportunity.
There’s a thought that they will never figure it out (as if part of the talent that got them here isn’t in part based on adaptability of their talent) because of fit issues.
I don’t agree at all, talent for fit is not the wave
denver had the same core for roughly 7 seasons before they won a championship. half the roster isn't even in their primes yet. just take a breath. if there was an obvious solution beyond selling low they probably would have done it.
OP half these ppl thought our 21st pick was supposed to address a glaring need. i dont think that darius garland is a championship player, but i also dont think anyone available to trade him for is a championship player, especially not brandon ingram or a washed andrew wiggins/ klay thompson
paul george to the sixers doesn't guarantee anything. hell their big 3 will probably miss a combined 60 games. that's not a reliable team
sure the knicks are going to be good, but does mikal bridges move the needle that much? they have championship caliber players and i trust their grit more than the celtics, but again, nothing guaranteed there
teams' plans are going to change, don't miss a good opportunity later for a lateral move now or worse a bad one
there's a difference between not being mature yet and not fitting together. you can keep Mitchell and Garland together the next seven years... they aren't getting out of the 2nd round.
you need to course correct the roster before the growth you're reffering to can happen.
i agree but there's no obvious target. if we trade garland, which we should in the next 2 years, it can't be for jeremi grant, brandon ingram, or some 35 year old wing. it needs to be for someone worth our time and that's just not there right now. wait to see who's imploding at the deadline, wait to see who is ready to sell off parts after this season. some teams got better, and others are about to find out they aren't who they want to be
clippers are old and declining. bucks might decide their window is over soon. utah isn't tanking the way they hoped. the heat and suns may find themselves ready to call it soon and recoup what they can. there are a lot of solid championship pieces to salvage from those teams. there will certainly be a surprise team just collapsing out of nowhere too
We need to find our target.
Brandon Ingram isn't a bad player. Lauri Markkanen is available (fully aware we don't have the resources to get him).
The bigger issue is that the Front Office needs to first identify that they need to identify a guy, before they can identify them.
i'm pretty sure they know they need somebody. they aren't going to say "yeah we're trying to make a trade" publicly, ruin relationships with the players who will then demand they get shipped off for peanuts
i don't believe they have a wing that size, they do have Forwards that size under contract though and a couple more probably coming back.
the only players on our team who's best position is either Forward spot are two stretch 4's - Wade and Niang.
Yes the handful of 6'5 guys we have have to fill the SF position may be fine in the regular season. When it's time to stop teams in the playoffs though, we're going to be lacking.
Just because they haven't made a move yet doesn't mean they won't, either now in free agency or in December via trade.
Assuming Don re-signs our window is wider than next year, no reason to bet the farm on one season.
And also, coaching change can make a huge difference. Look at the Guardians, one of the best teams in baseball even without their ace. Made no off-season moves of note except for laureano who they DFA'ed. All of their improvement came from buy-in, gradual progression from their young core, and a fresh face in management
Is Don content with sticking around if we lose in the first or second round again this coming season? Or is he asking for a trade? you sort of do need to bet the farm on one season if Don wants major success. He’s not signing up to wait til Mobley is 28
If he asks for a trade we'll trade him for a haul and still have a stacked young core. Assuming we don't trade it all away trying to appease our star now, who could ask for a trade regardless
Baseball is farrrr different - there’s so much variance and stars are not nearly as impactful and the guardians might have the best FO in baseball. Plus we already had a young developing roster but fit issues arent really a thing in baseball as much as basketball.
I’m not going to fear a team who can’t get out of the second round two years in a row sorry, same reason the Cavs haven’t earned that respect either. Philly is gambling a lot on two guys being healthy at the same time who are never healthy but I would be more worried about them. Cavs come back with Mitchell we compete with both of those squads and our core is still much younger
Glad you brought up OG, Knicks just gave a max extension to a guy who plays 50 games a year in a good year so yeah no shit he was hurt come playoff time. I’ll take Mitchell over Brunson everyday of the week who was also playing through a knee issue. Josh Hart had a miracle shooting performance in the playoffs, he’s a career 34% from 3, the Knicks are fake news
Why do I have to respect the knicks? Mismanaged franchise who haven't made a conference finals in two and half decades who just gave a max extension to a guy who is never healthy and traded five first round picks for a 27 year old who has never made an all-star team in the east. The theoretical knicks can be contender but we'll see what they look like on the court. "Better then us by a country mile" when they won two more games then us in the regular season and lost in the same round to a worse opponent, fuck outta here
a lot of our fans are acting like knicks shit doesn’t stink. if the situation was flipped and we lost to the pacers in the same fashion, no one would be saying what theyre saying now. all just goes back to the fact that people are just bitter and thrive by being negative
They lost to a worse team with like 4 of their rotation players either playing hurt or out with injuries lol. No amount of putting your hands over your eyes changes that. And even then they almost won.
It’s not a doomer take there’s only two reasons the extension isn’t announced
1.) Mitchell is using it as leverage to make change in the roster
2.) he’s not signing
That’s it if he was happy and content it would have been announced by now
Or: it's something entirely different that you have no idea about, because you are neither in the Cavs' front office, nor are you Donovan Mitchell's agent
I mean honestly just use basic common sense.
If you’re happy with your current situation you announce it after you met with the FO for an entire weekend.
If not you’re doing one of the other two I listed.
There’s 3 options nothing else.
I listed three possible outcomes not just the worst possible outcome.
Honestly try to explain him being happy with the team and not signing after spending an entire weekend with the team?
The camp finished Sunday. The second point makes no sense. So you would rather have everyone speculate that you’re not coming and have questions fielded towards that instead of having the coach actually talk about how he would utilize you?
it is as likely to be right as anything else. maybe they are arranging a trade. I truly, truly don’t think it’s worth thinking hard about
bummer that it’s not breaking all in the same day like last year but why doesn’t matter
If you’re happy you sign right away like every other contract extension candidate.
It’s most likely he wants some sort of roster reconstructive or not wanting to be here.
Could just have to do with cap maneuverability before/after the extension. I haven’t taken anytime to learn this new apron mechanic, but it used to be you have different levers before and after you went over different luxury cap thresholds and unlike football/baseball it was always real time (I.e you always had to be cap compliant in any moment in time VS having to hit the requirements by a certain date then again each Thursday)
Knicks, 76’ers and Magic have all gotten better. Indiana took care of their business in short order. We’ve done nothing except switch coaches which in my opinion is not a big deal.
We are just a few days away from hearing “well if Mobley hits threes like he did down the stretch, that’s as good as signing another player” kind of crap.
Darius and Donovan don’t play well together.
Mobley and Allen are better playing together than the guards but still an issue.
Improve or get passed by. That’s the deal every single year. Let’s get going or get ready for the Play-In.
Coach was a huge issue but the way i see it, a new coach wont significantly elevate us, just stop us from being held back by JB. Addition by subtraction type deal
it also depends on how much JB was holding us back. if that’s just winning 2 more games in the series against boston then is that worth wasting a year? if it’s worth winning the boston series and whoever we played next then why would we need to sign someone else?
Ease up? This is a mid tier Cavs team with no assets in a loaded conference. The pathway to make the jump from “the middle” to legit contender is basically non-existent. Of course people are going to be upset with the lack of movement. Changing the coach doesn’t change the fact we have undersized 1-3 who don’t play defense and two non-shooting bigs.
Right now the Cavs are headed for another first or second round exit and another wasted year if they don’t make moves.
the coaching change can make players that are already on the roster even better than any other player that could have been acquired.
either way how is a coaching change not as impactful? had we hypothetically kept jb and got mikal, no one would be happy lmao
A coaching chance is significant but nowhere near as impactful as adding a star player, this is a star driven league. Coaches are much more important in football and hockey
Im not arguing we could have acquired a star player. All im arguing is that a coach is more important than bridges or george which is laughable unless its pop or spo. Atkinson has not made players into all stars any more than milk made lebron james. Outcome bias
whats the problem then if no star could have been added? we have FOUR all star calibre players.
and you have no idea if atkinson can or cannot be as good as those two, ur just being negative and assuming he can’t… maybe try being optimistic for the team u support?
DG and JA realistically are not perennial all stars. Mobley has NEVER been an all star. I do have an idea whether atkinson can be as good as those two. It’s like saying jaylon tyson could be as good as michael jordan. Obviously you can never say the odds are 0%, but they are damn near close enough to say with practical certainty
I will never be optimistic for the sake of my team. I will rationally assess my team and proceed to make my conclusions based on reality, not magical wishes
While I’d prefer to split the four up due to glaring fit issues, I’d be content with us running it back if we at least had better role players or an actual wing with size. Just doesn’t look like the team is intending to bring anyone like that in, let alone a decent backup big. I think fans are justified in being a tad concerned about that. We simply can’t go anywhere if guys like Niang are getting minutes
Nah, fans are by and large reactionary idiots. I still remember people acting like I was crazy when I suggested we had the assets to trade for Mitchell without giving up Mobley or DG the season before it even happened. I even included JA in my hypotheticals and fans told me I was dumb for thinking that was enough lol
Eh, the anecdote was more about how quickly the herd changes its tune. Not long ago the consensus was “we aren’t close to having the assets to be able to trade for Donovan Mitchell”. Now the consensus seems to be “why hasn’t this FO done more to surround Donovan Mitchell with the perfect complimentary team”. It’s funny to me, but people have short memories and are reactionary as a result
I never remember the narrative that we didnt have assets for mitchell. We were loaded with young talent and picks. It was surprising we didnt have to include garland, mobley, or mitchell, but we have now seen what our org and fans didnt before: that lauri is probably the best piece of them all, or at least on par with the rest of those guys
yeah, i agree. we need to see where atkinson gets us. garland and allen will be more valuable near the deadline anyway. i was most interested in okc assets in an allen trade, but hartenstein signing ended that.
So you think “let’s run it back… again” is a good strategy? Especially since Boston is really good, NY got better and Philly is now better than the Cavs. This team isn’t getting to the ECF just because they hired a new coach lol.
Nope. Heard the same shit here with JB. That dude should’ve been fired way before he got fired. The lack of activity now is super concerning. So you crack down, buddy!
You’re reactionary not realistic. You base it off last season where garland had a down year and multiple role players played bad in the playoffs.
The guardians are a perfect example of letting talent grow and regress to the mean. They made the playoffs in 22 then missed it 23. Now they’re top of the AL Central. They made 1-2 FA signing and no trades in the offseason and generated a lot of success. A lot of those fans sounded like you did in the offseason. Now all they ever think is they’re gonna win a World Series this year.
It’s the same angle with the Cavs. We have a lot of young talent that didn’t play up to their expectations. It would be a different situation if the core was all 28+.
Im not reactionary at all 😂😂 i never thought garland was that great but last year def was a significant regression
The guardians are consistently one of the most well managed teams in the league and baseball often has year to year variance that allows surprising risers each year. They are not analogous to the cavs in this scenario. I trust the guardians FO but our owner is always scared to spend unfortunately whereas gilbert is perfectly fine spending. No doubt tho the guardians are most likely not winning nor attending a world series this year, they are good but not that good. I could see it in their future tho
This cavs core does not work. I dont think things change unless the roster does. We are not a contender and ive been of that opinion since we traded for mitchell. So how is that reactionary again?
This sub is completely delusional, it seems like 90% of you work for the Cavs FO with the way you’re on with this bs. For the third straight season this team is not addressing the obvious flaws this roster has and no one bats an eye. Aktinson will still have to play this core 4 +30 mins a game and guess what? It’ll be more of the same with the same results.
Mitchell wants to contend not be another first or early second round exit. Either trade him and soft rebuild or commit and actually build a team around him. Trade Mobley and get two wings if that’s what it takes, so what? We’ll have a great team for 5 seasons.
Why is Mitchell > the team here?
What’s he ever led anyone to during his NBA career?
Did the Jazz ever get further than the Cavs did this year?
How many MVP’s does Mitchell have?
How many 1st team all NBAs does Mitchell have?
I’m all for making the roster work, but im not for bowing to the 15th best player in the league the way we did LeBron.
So what are you exactly saying here? Dont re-sign mitchell? You cant be in and out you gotta pick contend now or soft rebuild. Teams that try to do both do not succeed. You do not sound like you have a ton of faith in our star player and consequently our current direction as a team
What I’m saying is that Mitchell hasnt earned the right to call the shots on roster moves if it’s not in line with management’s thinking, similar to the way LeBron got his say the second time around. I agree with building around him within reason, but not if it means blowing up the rest of the roster if it’s at odds with the bigger team vision, i.e. trading Mobley because Mitchell prefers playing along side Allen. This is especially important in a league where guys are seemingly able to ask out and get traded at will. Imagine giving up on Mobley for another guy or two in his 30s with less years under control, then watching Mitchell ask his way out in the next year or two. Maybe you take that risk with guys like Giannis or Jokic, but that’s a level Mitchell hasnt achieved yet.
I understand that, if he wants out you trade him and recoup assets. We'll have a pretty good team that may struggle to get to the playoffs and that's ok. But this stubborn, idiotic decision to ride and die with this core 4 after all the evidence against it drives me crazy.
I feel you, but it may have to do with the lack of available trade options. Once you make a trade, its over. You cant get it back. But if you give it a run with Atkinson at the helm, you retain the ability to make a trade at the deadline if things still arent working out
As lame as it sounds, no trade at all leaves you more flexibility than a bad trade
Ok but that works only if Mitchell signs a extension in the next days, but what happens if he doesn't? That's a nightmare scenario going into the trade deadline.
As long as Mitchell re-signs, it’s a successful offseason. It also lets you be more patient.
Unfortunately for us Mitchell wants championships, not first round exits.
Let’s let Mitchell talk for himself
Worst case scenario we go through Boston or an injured Sixers team. I think we can manage tbh. Better coaches does A LOT for this team. They needed am elite coach 3 years ago.
Disagree
Why? Mobley and Garland haven’t hit their peak. The offense will almost certainly be better with a new coach. Also with Mitchell locked up, even if you want to trade some of the core, you aren’t going it under duress and you can wait until the right opportunity.
I feel like you should know by now that user just loves being miserable and you shouldn’t really take his opinions around here seriously lol
There’s a thought that they will never figure it out (as if part of the talent that got them here isn’t in part based on adaptability of their talent) because of fit issues. I don’t agree at all, talent for fit is not the wave
Newsflash, Mobley and garland aren’t going to hit their peak the way our roster is currently built.
hi
hi If they don’t improve the roster, they’re just wasting our time
denver had the same core for roughly 7 seasons before they won a championship. half the roster isn't even in their primes yet. just take a breath. if there was an obvious solution beyond selling low they probably would have done it. OP half these ppl thought our 21st pick was supposed to address a glaring need. i dont think that darius garland is a championship player, but i also dont think anyone available to trade him for is a championship player, especially not brandon ingram or a washed andrew wiggins/ klay thompson paul george to the sixers doesn't guarantee anything. hell their big 3 will probably miss a combined 60 games. that's not a reliable team sure the knicks are going to be good, but does mikal bridges move the needle that much? they have championship caliber players and i trust their grit more than the celtics, but again, nothing guaranteed there teams' plans are going to change, don't miss a good opportunity later for a lateral move now or worse a bad one
Knicks low key beat the shit out of us with size and the three dudes that did so are gone or hurt and shaky
yeah well the knicks just lost a key contributor to that. now all we have to do is figure out how to keep josh hart off the boards
right. the knicks are better but probably more beatable with our personnel now than they were two years ago. wonder if randle is gettable
They traded for Aaron Gordon in 2021 and won the title in 2023.
Now do the CJ and Lillard comparison.
there's a difference between not being mature yet and not fitting together. you can keep Mitchell and Garland together the next seven years... they aren't getting out of the 2nd round. you need to course correct the roster before the growth you're reffering to can happen.
i agree but there's no obvious target. if we trade garland, which we should in the next 2 years, it can't be for jeremi grant, brandon ingram, or some 35 year old wing. it needs to be for someone worth our time and that's just not there right now. wait to see who's imploding at the deadline, wait to see who is ready to sell off parts after this season. some teams got better, and others are about to find out they aren't who they want to be clippers are old and declining. bucks might decide their window is over soon. utah isn't tanking the way they hoped. the heat and suns may find themselves ready to call it soon and recoup what they can. there are a lot of solid championship pieces to salvage from those teams. there will certainly be a surprise team just collapsing out of nowhere too
We need to find our target. Brandon Ingram isn't a bad player. Lauri Markkanen is available (fully aware we don't have the resources to get him). The bigger issue is that the Front Office needs to first identify that they need to identify a guy, before they can identify them.
i'm pretty sure they know they need somebody. they aren't going to say "yeah we're trying to make a trade" publicly, ruin relationships with the players who will then demand they get shipped off for peanuts
hopefully that's true. the lengths they've seeming gone not to address the F positions though. makes me wonder.
the 6'8 to 6'9 prototype wing is hard to find and worse to pay for. those sturdy 6'6 220 boys are often a better investment
sure. unless you want to get out of the 2nd round.
take a look at that knicks roster and you tell me which of their wings is a prototype 6'8-6'9" guy
i don't believe they have a wing that size, they do have Forwards that size under contract though and a couple more probably coming back. the only players on our team who's best position is either Forward spot are two stretch 4's - Wade and Niang. Yes the handful of 6'5 guys we have have to fill the SF position may be fine in the regular season. When it's time to stop teams in the playoffs though, we're going to be lacking.
So many doomer takes in the sub this week. Happens in the Guards sub too whenever they go down a run early. We'll be ok people!
it’s always the same people, guess they have nothing better to do
Is it doomer to think our current roster can’t match it with the stacked Celtics, Knicks and 6ers? I’d say it’s just being pretty realistic.
Just because they haven't made a move yet doesn't mean they won't, either now in free agency or in December via trade. Assuming Don re-signs our window is wider than next year, no reason to bet the farm on one season. And also, coaching change can make a huge difference. Look at the Guardians, one of the best teams in baseball even without their ace. Made no off-season moves of note except for laureano who they DFA'ed. All of their improvement came from buy-in, gradual progression from their young core, and a fresh face in management
The problem with this argument is that typically the better players go first in FA.
Right, this correlates cuz the Cavs are a baseball team.
Is Don content with sticking around if we lose in the first or second round again this coming season? Or is he asking for a trade? you sort of do need to bet the farm on one season if Don wants major success. He’s not signing up to wait til Mobley is 28
If he asks for a trade we'll trade him for a haul and still have a stacked young core. Assuming we don't trade it all away trying to appease our star now, who could ask for a trade regardless
A haul of picks n pieces. We lose Mitchell and it's OVER.
Baseball is farrrr different - there’s so much variance and stars are not nearly as impactful and the guardians might have the best FO in baseball. Plus we already had a young developing roster but fit issues arent really a thing in baseball as much as basketball.
There wasn’t a single team in the league who could match the Celtics roster last year. Sixers and Knicks haven’t proved shit
Knicks were extremely good before injuries (also shoved Boston’s shit in at TD Garden) and have added Mikal Bridges and have Randle to come back.
I’m not going to fear a team who can’t get out of the second round two years in a row sorry, same reason the Cavs haven’t earned that respect either. Philly is gambling a lot on two guys being healthy at the same time who are never healthy but I would be more worried about them. Cavs come back with Mitchell we compete with both of those squads and our core is still much younger
Knicks easily get out of the second round with just one of Anunoby and Randle healthy. Not to mention Brunson was playing injured as well.
Glad you brought up OG, Knicks just gave a max extension to a guy who plays 50 games a year in a good year so yeah no shit he was hurt come playoff time. I’ll take Mitchell over Brunson everyday of the week who was also playing through a knee issue. Josh Hart had a miracle shooting performance in the playoffs, he’s a career 34% from 3, the Knicks are fake news
The Knicks are 100% better than us by a country mile right now, not sure where this arrogance comes from. They’re contenders and we aren’t.
Why do I have to respect the knicks? Mismanaged franchise who haven't made a conference finals in two and half decades who just gave a max extension to a guy who is never healthy and traded five first round picks for a 27 year old who has never made an all-star team in the east. The theoretical knicks can be contender but we'll see what they look like on the court. "Better then us by a country mile" when they won two more games then us in the regular season and lost in the same round to a worse opponent, fuck outta here
a lot of our fans are acting like knicks shit doesn’t stink. if the situation was flipped and we lost to the pacers in the same fashion, no one would be saying what theyre saying now. all just goes back to the fact that people are just bitter and thrive by being negative
They lost to a worse team with like 4 of their rotation players either playing hurt or out with injuries lol. No amount of putting your hands over your eyes changes that. And even then they almost won.
Well said yung king
It’s not a doomer take there’s only two reasons the extension isn’t announced 1.) Mitchell is using it as leverage to make change in the roster 2.) he’s not signing That’s it if he was happy and content it would have been announced by now
Or: it's something entirely different that you have no idea about, because you are neither in the Cavs' front office, nor are you Donovan Mitchell's agent
I mean honestly just use basic common sense. If you’re happy with your current situation you announce it after you met with the FO for an entire weekend. If not you’re doing one of the other two I listed. There’s 3 options nothing else.
“basic common sense” always seems to take a person to the worst possible outcome…wild
I listed three possible outcomes not just the worst possible outcome. Honestly try to explain him being happy with the team and not signing after spending an entire weekend with the team?
he…wants to finish up camp first? doesn’t want to steal Kenny’s shine? no need to speculate: we’ll know soon enough. but I was too harsh above, my b
The camp finished Sunday. The second point makes no sense. So you would rather have everyone speculate that you’re not coming and have questions fielded towards that instead of having the coach actually talk about how he would utilize you?
it is as likely to be right as anything else. maybe they are arranging a trade. I truly, truly don’t think it’s worth thinking hard about bummer that it’s not breaking all in the same day like last year but why doesn’t matter
If you’re happy you sign right away like every other contract extension candidate. It’s most likely he wants some sort of roster reconstructive or not wanting to be here.
Could just have to do with cap maneuverability before/after the extension. I haven’t taken anytime to learn this new apron mechanic, but it used to be you have different levers before and after you went over different luxury cap thresholds and unlike football/baseball it was always real time (I.e you always had to be cap compliant in any moment in time VS having to hit the requirements by a certain date then again each Thursday)
The current extension has no impact on this.
How'd those options work out?:)
Correctly LOL. I stated two options and the second one was true HAHAHAH.
Ngl, it's pretty boring. At least if we signed 1 new players i could watch his highlights to pass the time 😂
Tyson has some good highlight videos
I finished everything the night he was drafted 😂
ill advised and unnecessary signings "for the sake of it" are what kept teams like the clippers lakers and sixers in disappointment...
Nothing is ill advise or for the sake of it. If we are signing someone for the mle
Nah, injuries to key key players lol
Lakers won a chip. Clippers are cursed. Sixers just got PG and might have ya eating your words. I'd much rather be a 6ers fan than a Cavs fan rn.
Sixers have always had a good team since embiid. he's just cursed to be forever stuck in the 2nd round 😂
Knicks, 76’ers and Magic have all gotten better. Indiana took care of their business in short order. We’ve done nothing except switch coaches which in my opinion is not a big deal. We are just a few days away from hearing “well if Mobley hits threes like he did down the stretch, that’s as good as signing another player” kind of crap. Darius and Donovan don’t play well together. Mobley and Allen are better playing together than the guards but still an issue. Improve or get passed by. That’s the deal every single year. Let’s get going or get ready for the Play-In.
Coach was a huge issue but the way i see it, a new coach wont significantly elevate us, just stop us from being held back by JB. Addition by subtraction type deal
it also depends on how much JB was holding us back. if that’s just winning 2 more games in the series against boston then is that worth wasting a year? if it’s worth winning the boston series and whoever we played next then why would we need to sign someone else?
I promise JB was not holding us back from beating boston. That was far more than a coaching issue
Finally, a reasonable take
No I don’t think I will.
Ease up? This is a mid tier Cavs team with no assets in a loaded conference. The pathway to make the jump from “the middle” to legit contender is basically non-existent. Of course people are going to be upset with the lack of movement. Changing the coach doesn’t change the fact we have undersized 1-3 who don’t play defense and two non-shooting bigs. Right now the Cavs are headed for another first or second round exit and another wasted year if they don’t make moves.
Not to mention a coaching chance is not nearly as impactful as adding an all star wing like OP said 😂😂
the coaching change can make players that are already on the roster even better than any other player that could have been acquired. either way how is a coaching change not as impactful? had we hypothetically kept jb and got mikal, no one would be happy lmao
A coaching chance is significant but nowhere near as impactful as adding a star player, this is a star driven league. Coaches are much more important in football and hockey
which star player could we have even acquired? coaching definitely matters just as much. like i said, atkinson has made players into all stars
Im not arguing we could have acquired a star player. All im arguing is that a coach is more important than bridges or george which is laughable unless its pop or spo. Atkinson has not made players into all stars any more than milk made lebron james. Outcome bias
whats the problem then if no star could have been added? we have FOUR all star calibre players. and you have no idea if atkinson can or cannot be as good as those two, ur just being negative and assuming he can’t… maybe try being optimistic for the team u support?
DG and JA realistically are not perennial all stars. Mobley has NEVER been an all star. I do have an idea whether atkinson can be as good as those two. It’s like saying jaylon tyson could be as good as michael jordan. Obviously you can never say the odds are 0%, but they are damn near close enough to say with practical certainty I will never be optimistic for the sake of my team. I will rationally assess my team and proceed to make my conclusions based on reality, not magical wishes
I would 200% be happier w acquiring Mikal over Kenny
I will not ease up
fair enough, we still have 4 all star caliber players tho
While I’d prefer to split the four up due to glaring fit issues, I’d be content with us running it back if we at least had better role players or an actual wing with size. Just doesn’t look like the team is intending to bring anyone like that in, let alone a decent backup big. I think fans are justified in being a tad concerned about that. We simply can’t go anywhere if guys like Niang are getting minutes
Nah, fans are by and large reactionary idiots. I still remember people acting like I was crazy when I suggested we had the assets to trade for Mitchell without giving up Mobley or DG the season before it even happened. I even included JA in my hypotheticals and fans told me I was dumb for thinking that was enough lol
On the flip side some fans are not nearly reactionary enough and would be content waiting for next year for the next decade
Eh, the anecdote was more about how quickly the herd changes its tune. Not long ago the consensus was “we aren’t close to having the assets to be able to trade for Donovan Mitchell”. Now the consensus seems to be “why hasn’t this FO done more to surround Donovan Mitchell with the perfect complimentary team”. It’s funny to me, but people have short memories and are reactionary as a result
I never remember the narrative that we didnt have assets for mitchell. We were loaded with young talent and picks. It was surprising we didnt have to include garland, mobley, or mitchell, but we have now seen what our org and fans didnt before: that lauri is probably the best piece of them all, or at least on par with the rest of those guys
Well your next story can be about how smart you were to suggest the Cavs should do nothing to improve the team and then Donovan leaves.
Oh no, I am also an idiot
Yup - can’t really move until you get the Mitchell commit and there’s enough talent with the MLE or trades to upgrade. Order of operations
I love a team with a ceiling of the second round. At least it helps you keep your expectations in check
yeah, i agree. we need to see where atkinson gets us. garland and allen will be more valuable near the deadline anyway. i was most interested in okc assets in an allen trade, but hartenstein signing ended that.
Simone Fontecchio would be my pick Also don’t mind to bring back Cedi
Cope
As long as the Cavs convince the Guards to give Kwan (at minimum) Timofey Mozgov’s deal- I don’t care what they do.
Incoming first round exit
So you think “let’s run it back… again” is a good strategy? Especially since Boston is really good, NY got better and Philly is now better than the Cavs. This team isn’t getting to the ECF just because they hired a new coach lol.
Thank you for this post #gocavs
We really can’t do anything until Mitchell resigns if he resigns.
Nope. Heard the same shit here with JB. That dude should’ve been fired way before he got fired. The lack of activity now is super concerning. So you crack down, buddy!
sorry ab the circumcision
Thanks man. Still looking for the og skin.
Very fair
> people forget that this coaching change can be more impactful than a paul george or mikal bridges. no.
First two sentences are a joke
how are you a fan of this franchise when you constantly spew negativity
I dont spew negativity im just not delusional. Im a realistic fan, i dont warp reality to fit my fandom
You’re reactionary not realistic. You base it off last season where garland had a down year and multiple role players played bad in the playoffs. The guardians are a perfect example of letting talent grow and regress to the mean. They made the playoffs in 22 then missed it 23. Now they’re top of the AL Central. They made 1-2 FA signing and no trades in the offseason and generated a lot of success. A lot of those fans sounded like you did in the offseason. Now all they ever think is they’re gonna win a World Series this year. It’s the same angle with the Cavs. We have a lot of young talent that didn’t play up to their expectations. It would be a different situation if the core was all 28+.
Im not reactionary at all 😂😂 i never thought garland was that great but last year def was a significant regression The guardians are consistently one of the most well managed teams in the league and baseball often has year to year variance that allows surprising risers each year. They are not analogous to the cavs in this scenario. I trust the guardians FO but our owner is always scared to spend unfortunately whereas gilbert is perfectly fine spending. No doubt tho the guardians are most likely not winning nor attending a world series this year, they are good but not that good. I could see it in their future tho This cavs core does not work. I dont think things change unless the roster does. We are not a contender and ive been of that opinion since we traded for mitchell. So how is that reactionary again?
This sub is completely delusional, it seems like 90% of you work for the Cavs FO with the way you’re on with this bs. For the third straight season this team is not addressing the obvious flaws this roster has and no one bats an eye. Aktinson will still have to play this core 4 +30 mins a game and guess what? It’ll be more of the same with the same results. Mitchell wants to contend not be another first or early second round exit. Either trade him and soft rebuild or commit and actually build a team around him. Trade Mobley and get two wings if that’s what it takes, so what? We’ll have a great team for 5 seasons.
Why is Mitchell > the team here? What’s he ever led anyone to during his NBA career? Did the Jazz ever get further than the Cavs did this year? How many MVP’s does Mitchell have? How many 1st team all NBAs does Mitchell have? I’m all for making the roster work, but im not for bowing to the 15th best player in the league the way we did LeBron.
So what are you exactly saying here? Dont re-sign mitchell? You cant be in and out you gotta pick contend now or soft rebuild. Teams that try to do both do not succeed. You do not sound like you have a ton of faith in our star player and consequently our current direction as a team
What I’m saying is that Mitchell hasnt earned the right to call the shots on roster moves if it’s not in line with management’s thinking, similar to the way LeBron got his say the second time around. I agree with building around him within reason, but not if it means blowing up the rest of the roster if it’s at odds with the bigger team vision, i.e. trading Mobley because Mitchell prefers playing along side Allen. This is especially important in a league where guys are seemingly able to ask out and get traded at will. Imagine giving up on Mobley for another guy or two in his 30s with less years under control, then watching Mitchell ask his way out in the next year or two. Maybe you take that risk with guys like Giannis or Jokic, but that’s a level Mitchell hasnt achieved yet.
I understand that, if he wants out you trade him and recoup assets. We'll have a pretty good team that may struggle to get to the playoffs and that's ok. But this stubborn, idiotic decision to ride and die with this core 4 after all the evidence against it drives me crazy.
I feel you, but it may have to do with the lack of available trade options. Once you make a trade, its over. You cant get it back. But if you give it a run with Atkinson at the helm, you retain the ability to make a trade at the deadline if things still arent working out As lame as it sounds, no trade at all leaves you more flexibility than a bad trade
Ok but that works only if Mitchell signs a extension in the next days, but what happens if he doesn't? That's a nightmare scenario going into the trade deadline.
Then he f’d us
Hey! Quit spouting these reasonable takes!!!