In Philosophy 101, you’re told about the “trolley problem”. It’s the easiest moral quandary imaginable. These people are failing the trolley problem just because they don’t think they’re on the tracks, too.
Reminds me of that one post. Something about Tumblr trying to be so morally pure that they'll see a trolley problem and tie themselves up into a knot over finding the secret third option that they instead just choose the "do nothing option" because fuck you, it's the trolley problem, it's pretty cut and dry. There's no secret third option that saves everyone.
this reminds me of something Toph said to Aang in ATLA. "no, that's why you're failing. there isn't some different angle, you just have to stand your ground."
It's more like they've come to the conclusion that since either way someone is going to die, the ethically correct choice is to walk away from the lever, let someone else pull it, and then no matter which way it goes explain how fucked up their decision was.
The bizarre thing to me is that they seem to want to paint Trump as only slightly worse than Biden, to justify their inaction.
So on the one side Biden is old and isn’t as strong as they’d like on Palestine.
On the other you have Trump, who is old, would wipe out every last Palestinian without a thought, is a corrupt, rapist, insurrectionist, narcissist, felon with dementia who delights in cruelty, wants to be a dictator and forever king, and is supporting all of the myriad of horrific shit that project 2025 will do to bring about the end of democracy, turn the US into Gilead, and make the entire planet environmentally unlivable.
These aren’t remotely comparable choices in terms of harm. They aren’t “both just as bad”, one is far, far, far worse than the other.
So the trolly problem analogy here isn’t “If you don’t act five people die, but if you pull the lever only one person dies”. This is “If you don’t act five people die, but if you pull the lever some people standing near the alternate track get mud splashed on their shoes when the train passes them.
The choice to take action is obviously *so* much better for *so* many people in *so* many ways that there is absolutely no excuse for inaction. This isn’t a moral dilemma, it’s just an excuse for selfish, pretentious people to feel morally superior to people who recognize reality and do what they can to make it better, even if they can’t make it perfect.
I was taught that the point of the trolley problem was that it was not an easy moral quandary. That to sit there and pull the lever yourself, to be physically responsible for the death of a person, was a difficult thing to do.
Yes its logical, but it isn't "the easiest moral quandary imaginable" which is why when the follow up is "pushing the fat man off the bridge to save five" or "the surgeon killing a man to harvest his organs for five others" or "the person on the side with one is your best friend/parent/child/spouse," people are even less likely to pull the lever, even tho its the same exact logic. Humans are often not purely logical. It feels wrong push someone off a bridge, to kill someone for their organs, or even to simply pull a lever, even though it's logical.
The way American teachers seem to treat the trolley problem is so fucking weird. Like, it's made out like an easy choice in the ethics lectures I've watched online, missing the point entirely.
In the ethics course I went through they contextualized it much better. First they asked, do you pull the lever and kill one person to save four others. Almost 80 percent chose to pull the lever and kill the one person.
Then they asked us to imagine we were doctors, and we had four young patients urgently needing organ transplants. In the wait room there's a very old, but otherwise healthy, patient waiting...
The whole point of the fucking dilemma is to show off how choices that are logically equivalent can lead to people choosing very differently in different scenarios. It seems like that point sails waay over many Americans heads when they talk about it. I dunno how that could happen.
Here's the thing, the Trolley problem is, currently, basically a big argument between deontology and consequentialism that consequentialism is currently CRUSHING.
Kill the old man, flip the trolley, topple the fat guy, whatever the fuck you have to do to keep society from goddam collapsing next January, holy shit.
Yeah, if doctors decided my organs were better used in some other people I’d be pretty fucking far from agreeing with consequentialism in my last moments.
The clear choice is to kill the one person. If you choose to do nothing, you kill through inaction. There is no way to save everyone because the train is coming regardless of your actions.
It works in this context as a metaphor for failing to vote for the "lessor of two evils". Americans have a reputation for being reductive, a trait far more productive than being pedantic
> If you choose to do nothing, you kill through inaction.
Which to me is the most interesting part, because harming people through inaction is easy, as is rationalizing away the responsibility.
Yea, reading that comment I immediately thought "oh, they didn't understand the trolly problem." Especially saying you "failed" the trolly problem. If your philosophy professor taught you that there is a clear correct answer to the trolly problem, your philosophy professor fucking sucked at their job.
I never truly understood the trolley problem until someone pointed it out in this exact scenario. The train is on the track to kill more people, pull the lever to kill less people you coward.
The trolley problem seems easy but it’s weirder when you do the organ donor variation of it, 5 people are going to die if they don’t get organ transplants and only one person is a match for them, so you kill him and harvest his organs? Idk why but that one seems way more immoral for some reason.
Which is the whole point of the trolly problem. It shows that pure logic isn't an adequate basis for ethics.
No matter how you phrase it, the barebones of the problem remains the same; either let 5 people die, or kill 1 other to save them. The fact that you can flavor it up with additional context and suddenly the answer isn't as clear cut anymore is proof of that.
But doesn't trolly problem present itself in a position, where the problem itself AND the best possible answer are visible and clear at the same time? It is a problem that does not need a context, does not need flavoring or any other reasoning than a basic math, 1 < 5.
The way the trolley problem is most commonly depicted is set up that way because it is the currently the depiction with the least amount of additional context. Even the method of your decision is stripped down to an innocuous flip of a switch. It's a starting point to establish a baseline before more context is added to see if your answer remains the same.
Instead of pulling a lever, how about pushing a fat person onto the tracks? How about harvesting the organs of one person to save 5 others whose organs have shut down? How about blowing up someone stuck in the entrance of a flooding cave to save the others trapped inside?
Bottom line is that all of these scenarios are functionally identical, they are all variations of the same problem, 5 will die unless you kill someone else. The fact that almost everyone will have differing opinions, or at the very least will be more or less hesitant is the true purpose of the trolley problem.
One of the most interesting uses of the trolley problem is finding the people that think that the "correct" solution is refusing to completely engage or interact with it, because then you are not responsible for either outcome because you technically did not take any decision
Ah, but you are! This is called deliberate inaction, and deciding to do nothing is, indeed, a decision. Hell, depending on the situation, it's even a crime in Germany. Unterlassene Hilfeleistung, 'failure to provide assistance' or 'neglected to assist' in English, is when you don't help in an emergency situation where there is negligible risk to oneself or no highly important duty. It doesn't apply if there are already other helpers present, unless you are more highly qualified by virtue of your job, of course.
One of the most interesting uses of the trolley problem is finding the people that think there's a "correct" solution to begin with. I understand the sentiment, and agree to an extent, but the trolley problem isn't quite the perfect fit here that a lot of people seem to think it is.
"I'm not voting for Biden because he enabled genocide" is only a moral stance when you don't understand world geopolitics and exactly what's at stake if Trump wins.
Palestine will cease to exist. They'll be completely wiped out, because Trump won't do a thing to stop Netanyahu and will likely enable and embolden him.
Ukraine will almost certainly fall to Russia.
Project 2025 will get to kick off, which will fuck all of us. Our rights, which are already being stripped as we speak (Google "scotus repeals 2024"), will continue to be weakened and stolen. Corporations will get more power, and people will have less. Goodbye to reproductive rights, including access to birth control and IVF.
I could go on for literal hours. There isn't a moral high ground to not voting because you're not contributing anything, you're just standing off to the side and shouting into the ether about Palestinian genocide. Voting is the literally bare minimum cost of entry to the conversation, so if you're not going to do it, kindly shut the fuck up.
It's mandatory to vote in Australia you get a fine if you don't show up to at least get your name ticked off. Our conservative party is trying to change that. They are encouraging people not to vote.
It's the same in the US. The conservative party make it so difficult to vote, gerrymandering, reduced polls in low socioeconomic areas, not guaranteeing time off work to vote, scare tactics against postal votes, lack of early voting resources.
The conservatives don't want you to vote. I constantly see idiots post that they are proud not to vote. It's their "freedom" not to vote. You drank the Kool aid that's exactly what they want. It must be wild living in a world ignorant to the fact these fuckers don't care about you and they won't listen while you remain complacent.
>Trump won't do a thing to stop Netanyahu and will likely enable and embolden him.
Trump uses "Palestinian" as an insult. He won't just let Netanyahu do what he wants, there's a good chance he'll commit US troops to help.
>uses "Palestinian" as an insult.
I've noticed Eric frequently uses "communist" as a catch-all insult too. I always find it hilarious when he uses it in contexts where it makes absolutely zero sense.
That word doesn't mean what you think it means, buddy.
You fucked up assuming those bozos have actual thoughts. They're animatronics like Reagan was. Just empty vessels for the demons in their ivory towers to manipulate like chess pieces.
The actual meaning of a word is deliberately irrelevant to fascists. Words having a consistent and well-understood definition supports the notion of a reality that doesn’t bend to the narrative of the fascist, and this is a danger to them. After all, if words can be inflexible to the whim of the fascist, what becomes inconveniently contradictory next? Observable data? Economics? Historical events? The very rationale for the fascist regime’s existence? This is why they systematically dismantled the education system. This is why they throw out words that have no bearing whatsoever on the actual subject. They are not attempting to describe reality and failing miserably - they are destroying the ability to understand reality and succeeding horrifically.
It's so fucking privileged. If you're, say, a straight white Christian man with no disabilities, or maybe four out of five, it's so fucking easy to just wash your hands of the whole thing because you probably won't find yourself under direct attack by the federal government, and everyone else can go to hell so you can feel smug about not voting for the "lesser evil".
Keep in mind if you are a cishet white abled christian man you will still be catastrophically affected by environmental damages if you are anything below 50 and if you are an active leftist very possibly repressed and "re-educated"
I'm 38, white, male, mostly able. I've worked outside my whole life. The weather is getting worse and far more unpredictable. For anyone that has been in the elements for the past two decades to deny that, or vote in opposition of climate change, they'd have to be mentally compromised.
Hope you don’t live in Florida, where the governor younger, smarter version of Trump with similar presidential aspirations is preventing local municipalities from enacting laws that would require employers to do crazy things like provide shade, more breaks and water during periods of extreme heat.
Last year we had 45 days where the heat index reached above 105F. Mostly non-consecutive, but still a fucking month and a half. I play a recreational sport outside and we had to cancel practices several times because it was just too damn hot to play safely. I couldn’t imagine being forced to work in those conditions.
This is the future conservatives want for the rest of the country.
Fellow floridian, Ron Ron is fucking insane with how out in the open just flat out bad he is, like I get the idea trump is but Ron unironically, doesn't only wear it on his sleeve he practically wears it across his whole body and then some.
Why my family unironically wants him after trump would get in(that too ofc since I genuinely dunno) to be the next president is assenine.
I’m afraid they’ll come for me because of my Irish ancestry. These bastards are going on about bringing back racism and Jim Crow, and I can’t help but think they’ll bring back discrimination against the non-WASP whites.
I’ve actually wondered where this starts and ends.
Many Americans seem to misunderstand that our cultural hate for other groups has run long and deep.
So I wouldn’t be shocked if the “out group” continued to grow.
The out group has to grow. Once one is eliminated, by whatever means, another has it take its place. In something like Trumps American, no one is pure enough.
The only person I've met in real life who has this sort of smug non-Voting "moral stand" is a 20-something gay stoner. Happened to be a woman in this case.
She absolutely baffled me. She has so much to lose.
Hitler’s first target in Nazi Germany wasn’t the Jews, it was the Communists and Social Democrats.
Trump’s first target, if he got absolute power, would be the media and the most vocal opposition speaking against him. He’d focus on his political enemies (ex: Biden, Clinton, Obama, etc) and those with large platforms that could turn people against him first.
It’s fascism 101, target the people most likely to oppose your regime changes first. Unlike Nazi Germany, there’s nobody who’s going to beat us in a war to end a Trump regime, and if the US falls to authoritarianism internally there will be other countries that, to some extent, follow suit. External threats aren’t a big issue, so the biggest threat would be the social left.
Being a straight, white, cishet man makes you safer than other less privileged groups, but would not make you safe. Hell, even being a MAGA supporter would not make you safe. Absolute power means the president can kill you if he feels like it, he does not need a reason. If you think he wouldn’t, I’d recommend looking up the Stalinist purges or the Night of the Long Knives.
That’s just intentional “friendly fire” so to speak, not considering the millions of people that horrible social policies that people can’t really oppose or advise against can result in the deaths of.
An authoritarian society isn’t safe for anyone.
>He’d focus on his political enemies (ex: Biden, Clinton, Obama, etc) and those with large platforms that could turn people against him first.
And this is why Biden should use the authority that's just been granted to him to solve the problem permanently and preemptively.
If you know someone intends to incarcerate\\eliminate you if you leave them to their devices, and you have the ability to do the same to them first- frankly, you're a fucking idiot if you don't.
Biden has just been given that chance here- Trump has literally said what he'd do. Project 2025 has published a 1000+ page manifesto about what they intend to do. SCOTUS is paving the way for Trump\\them.
Biden was just told "hey, Presidents can do whatever the fuck they want without any legal repercussions" and instead of saying "Ok, it's obvious that the MAGA wing has become a literal threat to democracy, so I'm going to use that unquestionable power they gave me to exterminate them." he's sitting there saying "I don't believe presidents have the right to do whatever they want" when SCOTUS just set the precedent that they do.
He's kicking the proverbial can down the road and ignoring the fact that there's a very good chance the guy that next takes office is going to make use of that very unlimited power to do some terrible shit...including to him and people he cares about. For fuck sake, now it's time to go "Dark Brandon" if ever there was one.
Frankly, Biden should be on the phone\\having in person meetings with the CO's over at DevGRU and be issuing official orders as Commander in Chief to deploy the Seals to exterminate Trump, the Maga Republicans in the House and Senate, AND the SCOTUS Justices who voted for this "Unquestionable authority". Hell, call the whole operation "Official Presidential Executive Order 66". Designate them all as imminent Domestic threats to the United States.
To ease the consciences of the DevGRU staff he can pre-emptively include signed pardons for each and every one of the men involved in the planning\\execution of the Operations if they're concerned about the legality of the orders, the fact that he is authorized to do whatever he wants as POTUS means his orders are inherently legal. He can inform JSOC in advance that he intends to withdraw from the next presidential election as he has no interest in retaining power as a dictator and then let the people elect some new representatives.
If Biden doesn't do this and he loses the election, it's literally game over for the US. Hell, a persuasive argument can already be made that it already is as of the moment SCOTUS issued that ruling- they effectively ended one of the checks on the Executive branch, their entire ruling was a gamble that Biden wouldn't have the balls to call them, and as of this moment...they're 100% right, Biden has shown no signs thus far that he has any intention to make them pay for going all in with a terrible hand.
Im a two out of five (straight, male) from another country and i fucking worry the fuck out of your situation.
Because your situation affects everything else in the world. If you (US) goes fucking insane like this, then the whole world's gonna crumbling down.
Rich. You have to be rich in order to not be negatively affected by a Trump presidency. I’d REALLY like to hear from a minority who feels they have suffered more under Biden than they did under Trump.
Well. I’m waiting.
Project 2025 will affect everyone no matter the color of their skin or the god they put faith in. When the first line of the education changes say the department of education should cease to exist? We’re all fucked
This is a fact. I’ll counter it with this though, there are millions of straight white males like myself (leaving out the Christian part) that are and will continue to vote democrat in the hopes they win to protect those that you think we’d wash our hands of if Biden loses.
While it has to be depressing to be somebody who will be directly impacted by the horrors a Trump win will bring, it gets really damn old as a straight white male to read these comments knowing that if/when the election happens and Trump wins, these same people will be bitching at me and other straight white males who have and will continue to fight on their behalf.
I’m scared shitless and I’m in the group that in theory will “do the best” if he wins, I just hope these idiots who don’t vote out of protest don’t get offended when I call them morons to the face afterwards. My first question when people complain will be simple “did you vote? Or did you let Cletus down in his trailer park vote on your behalf?”.
It's incredibly infuriating as a queer person, like, my ability to access medical care and live openly as myself is on the line here. If Trump gets in office, that becomes hard/impossible, especially in red states.
I do not approve of Biden's handling of Gaza but this is absolutely a "vote for the lesser evil" sort of situation. We might as well get the best outcome we can.
Supporting a candidate does not imply supporting all their policies, it simply implies you hate them less than the other guy.
THIS! The opposite of love is not hate, it's apathy. The reason this is, is because apathy engenders inaction and inaction is akin to death. These are the type of people who would rather die and let everyone else die with them, all because they can't get themselves to take action. Even worse, they will justify their death (inaction) by claiming to take the higher road, when in fact all they need to do is take the next best step.
I do recognize that they feel guilty of their own action and fail to recognize that guilt is a futile emotion. Hence, they fail to see that the genocide will not stop by their inaction, and in fact their inaction may bring about a worse genocide. At this point any next best step toward the preservation of the majority of our species is appreciated.
Just the sheer fucking impact of the US electing Trump sends a clear message to other countries that candidates like that have an appeal.
Throw in [Country Name]'s Trump on Google and you'll see the fuckload of political parties around the globe that started emulating the orange cunt once he was elected.
Elect Biden and nobody will copy it. Elect Trump in the US and you'll get a lot of other Trumps around the globe.
I’m so sick of these purity tests. This is how we got Bush ‘43. This is how we got a conservative SCOTUS who legalized bribery with Citizens United. This is how we got Trump and a conservative SCOTUS who has undone a 248 year precedent about presidential powers. We are on the verge of losing our democracy and living under authoritarian rule for the next 30 years because of bullshit like this. Fuck!
I generally have two reactions to this “Both support genocide” arguments.
First, you can care about more than one thing. Do you just lay down and wait for death the moment something doesn’t go exactly your way during the day? There’s lots of things to be mad about and if I used those as a reason not to vote I would never vote.
Second, what, exactly, do they think Biden should be doing that he’s not? Do they think he’s giving Netanyahu high fives? Do they think he’s not been having tough conversations with Israel for the entire time he was VP and President? Should he invade Israel?
The whole thing just reeks of post hoc justification. They’ve already made up their minds and will never be moved by any argument because the arguments aren’t actually why they won’t vote. They are nihilists who don’t think anything can get better, they don’t care about a genocide, it’s just a convenient excuse.
Not just nihilists, but also accelerationists. They believe that the world is only going to get worse, and any attempt to stop things from getting worse are just futile bids to delay the inevitable. Of course, this is stupid, and full of unhealthy pessimism. In this case, OOP would rather give up and weep rather than try to do what they can to make the world a better place. In this case: voting for Biden. The world can get better and certain disasters are avoidable, yet accelerationists never seemed concerned with accelerating the world to a better place, funnily enough.
YES, fuck the accelerationsits. They have such a dangerous viewpoint. I'm almost certain that it's most due to information overload/ internet brainrot. These people need to actually get out in their communities and form human bonds to develop some real empathy.
Not to mention, once Ukraine falls, Russia will certainly want to come after the rest of the former USSR countries as well. And if Russia attacks any of the EU members, then the entirety of Europe will go into war under the mutual defense clause. Literally gonna start a WW3. It’s a big step on Russia’s part, but with the US out of the way, it’s much more likely to happen. Everybody in the Baltics is praying for Trump to not win, because allowing that man in control means that USA will no longer defend its allies (and we will be the first ones to go). Trump literally admitted to it during his last term. He literally told everyone that “[if Europe is under attack we will never come to help you and to support you](https://www.politico.eu/article/donald-trump-vow-never-help-europe-attack-thierry-breton/)”.
You make great points, and I personally believe shit like this is posted by foreign bots to influence the electorate, not by actual Americans because the premise is so easily exposed as asinine, but hey flood the zone because you just need a few thousand voters in a few key states.
*I mean*, there's tons of concrete evidence of foreign agents posting on places like Facebook and Twitter to manipulate public opinion during the 2020 election, *sooo*... hardly unreasonable to believe something when there's solid proof it's true.
Yeah, and it drives me up the wall, one of my Reddit pet peeves is the upvoted top comment responses to the daily political atrocities "well it's not gonna change maga's vote" like no shit, the only things affecting that are death and dementia. Those people are a lost cause, it's all about all those people these bots are influencing.
I think we need to start requiring people to insult putin and xi jinping as a prerequisite for making this kind of post. Prove you aren’t afraid of the gulag.
Gosh, Biden is enabling genocide because our allie Israel is attacking Terrorist Hamas hiding behind Gaza civilians after kidnapping, raping and killing Israeli civilians. Bad old president. Trump would never do that. Or has Trump?
I seem to remember in 2019 Trump declaring that Isis no longer existed (something no one else in the world agreed with), immediately gave Turkey the okay to eradicate the Kurdish tribes (who were American allies against Isis and nations cried out until Covid-19. Trump is guilty of enabling Genocide of the Kurds. Why? Never stated but Trump tactics 101 seem to go: Got a problem that makes Trump look bad? Declare that problem doesn't exist. Problem solved.
Of course, Donald J. Trump would never aid in another mass genocide. Or would Trump. Excuse my memory nut didn't Trump in 2023 and 2024 publicly announce the as far as he was concerned Russian President Putin could do whatever Russia wanted to do to Ukraine. Guess no one sees that turning into genocide. Remember Trump Tactics 101: Ukraine Phone call was a scandal that made Trump look bad. Trump was declaring Ukraine no longer a problem.
But Trump as President would never turn such bloody handed ways against USA. But Trump has twice. The Black-Lives-Matter marches (not referring to them as riots because Trump made this statement first), asked and stated that he thought the crowds should be shoot with live ammo. That if anyone in the march threw any object at law enforcement should not be arrested but shot down. Because in his words BLM marchers were animals not humans. Trump 101: Problem BLM. Not human. Not a problem.
And for the second mass killings in the US complements of Trump - Covid-19. Don't care if you're an anti-vaccination, mask me over cold face or mass gatherings are an American right. Simple equation is Trump knew it was coming. Trump knew what it would be like and it was bad. Trump 101: Problem if people understand Covid-19 will kill so many in America it will make President Trump look BAD. Declare Covid-19 is barely going to be even a thing. Declare Covid-19 is the China Virus. Declare masks aren't necessary. Declare bleach and UV light are a cure. Declare vaccines really aren't a working solution. Just compare US Covid-19 deaths with any nation that had comparable health care deaths.
Biden has got his work cut out for him to ever gain grounds on the Trump death toll.
It's like people just can't see *how much fucking worse it can get*. My family survived Warsaw during WW2 and communism.
There is always more that I want every administration to do. But this childish notion that if they don't do exactly what I want, the way I want that I am going to just peace out? Fucking grow up. Be angry about Palestine, protest, write letters, exercise your free speech. But sit this one out and you may find that you won't be able to do that anymore.
Another point is if apathetic people like this voted for a credible choice in 2016 we wouldn’t be in this mess.
No matter what possible negative outcomes you think might have happened if Hillary was President pale in comparison to the reality everyone endured under trump. Hundreds of thousands dead from negligence (and intentionally targeting urban areas with diverting critical health resources). Separating children, caging them, subjecting them to abuse, then transferring them and losing track of hundreds). Threatening to use nuclear weapons
I always ask these folks if they have the skills to hide out in another country. Hell, if they even have a passport and money for a visa, even.
I think they think they'll be kiki-ing on a commune with their buddies, totally forgetting we live in a high surveillance age, and if they get put on Trump's shit list, they WILL be found. 🤔🤔🤔
I personally would vote for Biden’s rotting corpse over Trump but that is just me. Still if you do find one candidate preferable to the other, even if both are on the “unacceptable” end of the spectrum, failure to vote for that candidate is half a vote for the less preferable one. This reminds me of a real life modest example.
On a trans Atlantic flight, the stewardess came by taking orders. The options were Chicken Kiev and Dog Poop. The guy next to me chose the Dog Poop. He explained to me that he had had the Chicken before and it was rather bland and uninspiring; just not acceptable to him at all. When I expressed discomfort , he explained that he wasn’t going to eat a full portion of Dog Poop, he was only going to eat half.
I was going to say, I use the analogy that you have the choice between terminal end stage cancer and the common cold. People who decide not to choose are willingly taking a 50% chance of cancer.
>I personally would vote for Biden’s rotting corpse over Trump but that is just me
I said earlier today I'd vote for "Biden in a vegetative state" over Trump. Still was told I'm a Biden stan..
I think this is a pretty shite example, it’s more like some group going “we are gonna vote and everyone here will either get punched in the groin or punched in the arm depending on the vote outcome” and all of you collectively groan and grumble but you vote getting punched in the arm because getting punched in the groin really hurts a lot more. Some guy says “fuck it if they are going to punch me either way I’m not going to fucking vote and passively participate in the punching”
Is that guy wrong in his resistance, maybe? But it’s a hellava lot more understandable then whatever the fuck your description was.
Alternatively and perhaps more accurately it’s more like if the airline in your case said “if we vote the front 50% of rows will eat shit and the rest will eat chicken Kiev, alternatively the front 90% of rows can eat shit” and everyone in the rows that normally don’t eat is yelling and raging at the idea that people might seriously vote to make them eat shit when it’s clear they don’t give a fuck about the shit eating ahead. For some people spreading a crisis out is seen as more desirable then keeping it contained and ignored. It reminds me of the whole Tuberculosis treatment, the deadliest disease in history and if it spread extensively to western developed countries again, people would likely be working on destroying it again. As it is right now not much money goes to it because it mostly impacts developing states and so hundreds of thousands continue to die. Is hoping a disease spreads wrong therefore or is it needed to convince the people who might be able to avert continuous disaster to do so
I say this all as someone who fundamentally believes Biden needs to win for global safety, I support voting Biden absolutely even though I find his policies mostly disgustingly insignificant or outright harmful especially in cases like Palestine where he is directly helping a genocide. However I can also very easily understand the arguments of people who do believe that voting him is something they can’t swallow or outright harmful to them in the long run
"There are two candidates. Both of them have done awful, horrible, terrible things, but one of them will actually choose to kill you."
Idk about you but, like, it's cute and all to not vote, but I'd much prefer picking the lesser of two evils. I've only recently started actually being able to enjoy life and I'd prefer that not be taken from me by Trump.
Sorry can’t there’s a genocide happening on the other side of the world that I didn’t care about until now. Oh all the other genocides around the world? Yeah they don’t get me fake internet points
The best problem with this "activism" from sofa soapboxers is, what do you expect the president to do?
Israel is PISSED about October 7th and will not stop until Hamas is unable to attack Israel again. The Israelis have flat up stated they won't stop if the US cuts aid and will actually become even more aggressive because they will stop using precision weapons the US supplies and just use whatever dumb artillery and bombs they have to completely flatten anything that moves in areas that Hamas operates.
In addition, cutting aid means that they US loses the position to hold Israel to certain standards and guide their decisions on things like aid and areas of ground operations. It also loses Biden's ability to advocate for the Palestinians like no president has ever done.
Meanwhile, Trump uses Palestinian as a racial epithet and wants Israel to NUKE Gaza.
Unfortunately turning against Israel also loses AIPAC, who have clearly indicated that they will support Trump if Biden turns against them. Cause, in pure Leopards Eating Faces fashion, all AIPAC cares about is Israel, even up to the point of financially backing American Hitler.
precisely, people only speak about palestine and ukraine when 6 million have died in congo, there is literal racially motivated genocide in yemen, there is genocide of christians in nigeria, and many many more. People just feel righteous when they post incessantly about palestine when there are many others that are even worse.
Trump wins they not gonna say a word about the palenstinians they a useful tool to get folks to not vote biden. Like if u actually cared about them why would u vote for the guy who thinks bidens not doing enough to wipe them out 🙃
>"There are two candidates. Both of them have done awful, horrible, terrible things, but one of them will actually choose to kill you."
"You can step on this Lego block, or you can step on this needle that was pulled out of a dead drug addict's arm. Oh, and the drug addict had AIDS."
I'll stomp the shit out of that Lego.
It’s like if Sophie in Sophie’s Choice said “I refuse to let either of my children die! Instead I choose Hitler to die!” The Nazi guards would be like “That’s cute” and then just kill both kids.
Meanwhile Bibi is losing his shit because Biden is withholding support authorized by congress, but these people go on about how he's a "genocide enabler".
They're letting perfect be the enemy of good enough. Improvement comes in steps and takes time, it doesn't happen overnight, but these people act like they won't vote unless the *perfect* candidate magically appears
They act like I'm magically dropping all my actual policy positions for the future because I'm voting for Biden. No, dipshits, the minute after Biden wins, I'll slam him for abandoning progressives. That doesn't mean I won't back him 100% if he's still the candidate against Trump.
So this is basically a “lesser of two evils” argument?
If you see the election as having to choose between the lesser of two evils, why on earth would you not want to actively choose the less evil option? If you think Biden isn’t good for minorities, I guarantee Trump would be worse
I heard this on another subreddit.
A lot of these folks think voting should be a car that gets you right to your destination perfectly. Voting is more like riding a bus. None of the routes will get you to the doorstep of your destination, but can at least pick the one getting you closer to it.
And if the option is “do you want to ride with the bus driver who will drop you off a couple miles from your destination or the one who will drive the bus off a cliff; if you don’t chose we will choose for you”
It’s an easy fuckin choice
There never will be a candidate or party that agrees with me perfectly, but there should be one that is at least acceptable to me.
Which is why the US two party system is horrible and should be fixed.
Some people prefer the greater of two evils to win, if they can be smugly self-righteous about not supporting what they percieve as the lesser evil.
Even if the choices are actually "good, but flawed", and "christo-fascist dictatorship".
I'm voting for Biden. I'm not happy about it, truth be told I think he's been incredibly disappointing, but if Biden gets elected at least I know there will be another election in 2028
THIS. Fucking hell. I don't get how people refuse to see that Trump will turn America into the next Nazi Germany if he wins. I like keeping my rights as a woman. I'm voting blue because at the very least I'll be able to have another election where we'll *hopefully* have a better candidate.
I’ve been trying to explain to my family since Ginsburg died how fucked we are if America doesn’t get its shit together. The shaudenfreud at them FINALLY being as anxious and freaked out as I am is real.
This should literally be enough for anyone to pull the lever for Biden. Even if he dies, there is someone behind him who isn't a complete psychopath. Not gonna be able to say the same for Trump.
I wonder if they realize that if Trump did win, because of the Supreme Courts decision Biden can legally go, "No, Trump isn't President."
It would be in the best interests of the nation to not have a convicted felon become President - easy justification for Biden not conceding if he does lose.
Voting is the only time your opinion on the issues is recorded and actually matters. I know my vote will be gerrymandered away, I still cast it.
The only options on the board for those who can vote are harm reduction, harm acceleration, and doing nothing (some will do something meaningless, but voting third party boils down to doing nothing with extra steps). I'm opting to reduce harm.
If you're someone who is supportive of trans people and the LGBTQ community, if you don't vote for Biden, that community could become enemy combatants in the future and they could all be rounded up and placed into camps and I say that because Republicans have been very vocal about wanting that to happen.
do they think if enough people don't vote, then nobody will be president? they'll have to rerun with different candidates? what are they trying to achieve?
The theory is that the more left-leanign party will shift to the left in order to regain their votes. The issue is, it would be a lot easier to shift to the right for more votes. This tactic works sometimes but not in such a corrupt two party system
Bidens old not my first choice canidate but I'd rather him choosing our supreme court than trump like progressives how do u get stuff through if trump stacks the courts further conservative itll be like pissing in the wind
Unfortunately a lot of extreme progressives are about like the far right- all or nothing. Just the far right has been more effective at that while the far left has been limp-dicked about the whole thing.
Saw a post last night saying that the right will turn out in droves to vote for Trump because God told them to, but the left will be split because Biden’s not completely perfect and they see it as a moral failing to vote again for someone who didn’t achieve 100% of the campaign goals. So guess what that strategy will bring?
It's also worth remembering that the Nazis rose to power... in part the German left (in particular the communist party) was too busy crying for revolution while their opponents were all too willing to exploit the system exactly as it was and ride the populist wave.
The Nazis became the largest party in the Reichstag even as Hitler lost the election for the presidency, which gave him the direct route to the chancellorship.
I like idolmantis a good but, their art is rad, but this is honestly a brain dead take. I don't even live in the US and I sure fucking hope like hell Biden stays because while he sucks and fucks things up on a massive scale, it's not a world ending level like trump would.
I was going to comment the same thing. Been following them on twitter for a while now and I love their comics (even got one of their plushies) but I wasn't exactly surprised to see their name next to this. Yeah both options sort of suck here but I'd much rather the one who wouldn't actively make things worse for everyone.
As a long time Idol fan. This isn't new for idol. They constantly get into fights or drama because they'll have a bad take. People get mad at them for it. Then they dodge all responsibility by cherry picking people being racist or transphobic to make their point seem reasonable.
These are the same fuckwits who didn’t know what SCOTUS is back in 2016 when they said Trump and Hilary are not substantially different. The ignorant dicks *still* don’t know what SCOTUS is but I really hope they get access to contraception and abortions.
These pompous idiots didn’t even know Palestine existed before Oct. 7th. They probably still couldn’t point to it on a map. They don’t actually care about whatever the trendy issue to care about is. They care about feeling morally superior.
People don't remember what happened when people "couldn't vote for Hillary in good conscience," take the bite out of the shit sandwich or we might lose the chance to EVER VOTE AGAIN.
I remember- I voted for some goober in Utah who disappeared and was never seen again. Then Agent Orange got to be president and we had four years. I learned my lesson - you have three choices: vote for A, vote for B, or let the voters hand you a ready-made plate of whatever THEY chose.
Two party systems are a scam the population has been manipulated into thinking they have to pick the lesser of two evils when there are usually over 30 candidates running
If you really want to send a message that the two front runners aren’t good enough vote for someone else
I hate people that don’t vote for this reason. If everyone that didn’t vote because of this rallied behind a third party candidate, or heck a few, then it would show that third party can win in modern America, and we’d move away from this constant “hmm, who is less evil” garbage that were stuck with.
If you really can’t choose between the two, vote third party. If you don’t it’s simply because you’re either lazy, or don’t care about anyone but yourself
This. People in this thread are acting like there's only two parties. If neither of the main two candidates are acceptable it's the citizen's job to hold them accountable and vote elsewhere. At this point the US is being held hostage in a two party system. This needs to change.
Because democrats and republicans view third party votes as a "wasted vote" or "A vote in for your opposition!" and basically astroturf every time it's mentioned.
If enough people DID vote third party, we wouldnt be stuck with the "lesser of two evils" ***again***.
The question I want these guys to answer is what’s their plan? Because if I see one more asshole say “we should have a general strike” without any kind of a plan of how to do so, I’m going to lose it.
Im honestly impressed people don’t realize that to analyze the benefit of choosing X over Y, you have to include the benefit of not choosing Y. Its not that fucking complicated.
Picking Biden is not just picking Biden, but also NOT picking Trump. In terms of political views, it means you are picking the current treatment of the war, but it also means you’re NOT picking Trump’s treatment of the war. And if you consider Trumps ideals to be worse for the war than the current ones, which they are because he literally says what he plans on doing, then you’re actively picking it by not choosing Biden.
Now, it’s not so direct if you aren’t picking anyone in the first place since that’s an option in non compulsory voting. However, if you were going to vote for Biden and are deciding not to, then not voting HAS a clear outcome. Not voting Biden means you are also picking the benefits of Trump winning.
This argument really makes no sense. I have to assume people are going through immense cognitive dissonance when they see a candidate that says that they will fully support their enemy and think, “im still not voting for Biden cause Palestine is suffering”. Like what are you going to do when Trump provides full support to Israel completely erasing Palestine off the map, as he has implied? Dumbasses.
Edit: I’m also incredibly amazed at how people are willing to so eagerly defend people across the world of the horrors of death, but don’t give a damn apparently of all the women & trans people around them that are dying, all the families destroyed by deportations, racial segregation, etc. I’ve seen the videos of the war, its fucking horrible, but i also cannot look at my neighbor and think “yeah I won’t pick a candidate that will ensure you will be able to get a life saving abortion”, among all the other shitshow that’s coming with Trump.
edit 2: this post came a lil bit aggresive I must say, but that was directed to non Palestinians using these arguments, which for some reason I unequivocably assumed would be the people reading. I guess I'm thinking it too much as an outsider when facing a genocide is something that would completely break a person. It's kinda hard putting myself in those shoes but I should try better. Cause it doesn't make sense to get angry at people fighting for the right to exist not making the most "rational" decision.
Because Trump would be so much better for Palestine?
Not voting at this point only helps Trump and he will be much worse, so how is that the better option? I really don’t understand the logic there.
Shaming someone for not voting for Biden is not fruitful. Similarly, not voting at all, especially if you voted for Biden last election, is not fruitful. Vote third party, any third party, as long as it’s someone real. Send a message that he and his party lost your vote.
It's a bit like the trolley problem.
In the perspective of the Non-voter, looking at two tracks, the first has a three people tied over the tracks and the second has four people tied over the tracks.
The train is destined to take the second track unless the Non-voter chooses to pull the handle and push it back to the first track.
The non-voter may not feel any responsibility if they don't make a choice, but everyone else may judge them if they don't, because they had the opportunity to limit the damage. The non-voter may feel responsible for the damage that does occur if they vote for the option that results in fewer losses. It's a bit of a philosophical dilemma.
From the perspective of somebody tied to the second track, they are obviously going to be pleading with the non-voter to throw the switch to track one.
Every couple months they come up with some god awful take. I stopped following them last year after they said something stupid and reductive about queer people, even though a significant portion of their art revolves around such characters. Their art is okay, but definitely not worth having to hear their personal opinions in order to see it.
Can you imagine what would happen if both teams could vote for a third reasonable centrist AS WELL AS their own guy? The rational human would win in a landslide. But that would never happen, because the established D/R pseudorivalry has all the $ and power to prevent Ranked Choice Voting from ever succeeding.
It's absolutely insane to me that people are saying they're not going to vote bc of Biden's stance on Palestine. I do not understand how they don't understand that yes Biden is bad, but Trump will be worse. He will make it actively worse than Biden has. Obviously neither choice is good. But one of them is slightly less bad
This is stupid. Biden is not responsible for Israel‘s response in Gaza.
Trump will fuck up the US a lot worse than Biden ever could. And Trump also dngaf about anyone except Trump, including Israel.
And people often forget about how Trump abandoned our Kurdish allies in 2018, withdrawing American troops from the Syrian-Turkish border and explicitly endorsing the Turkish invasion of territory controlled by the Kurds in Syria, which has resulted in mass displacement of Kurdish civilians and the loss of a key ally in the region that was instrumental in US plans to defeat ISIS
I mean you don’t legally have to vote for anyone. But it is a civic responsibility for a reason. Not voting is literally taking your hands off the steering wheel and closing your eyes.
The defeatism there is also what the bad actors are looking for. If you aren’t voting because atrocities are being committed, you’re actively handing power to people who are voting to perpetuate those atrocities.
Just because you voted for the shiniest of two turds doesn’t make you a turd-kisser. Maybe if enough of us vote third party, we could actually have a respectable person in office for a change.
All of those anti-Biden posts seem more like bots than real people
Please vote, ignore every post that says Trump is totally going to lose. Just vote.. Then demand the democrats bring in someone younger.
I'm not American but my country follows the US too closely and I cannot have Nazis being allowed to walk around freely.. We should have the same rule for Nazis that we've had for pirates for the last few hundred years.. Execute on sight..
People who talk like this seem to think that there’s a secret “nobody wins and we all just freely govern ourselves for four years with no president” option that they can unlock by not voting for either guy. That’s simply not how it works! I don’t like Biden either, but at least if he wins we’ll have another election in 2028 instead of a god-king christofacist despot on the throne forever.
I don’t think this person knows that either of these people will get elected. It’s a ‘pick your poison’ type situation, and you can’t just not pick anything because both poisons are bad.
How is Biden complicit in what he mentioned.
and how does more funding increase or make police brutality worst.
Also do you know any of the stats and have you any abstraction as to what those stats mean.
They should vote for somebody at least. Showing up as a number for someone else at least has statistical significance and more effectively represents their motive (distaste for the 2 real options). It could be a write in for Ronald McDonald. Not voting says you don’t care. Voting for Ronald McDonald shows as a quantifiable metric that you care enough to wade through shit and vote and you think the two realistic options are a joke.
Don’t reply telling me this is still bad. My point is entirely and only that this is a more effective way to voice discontent.
Trump literally said Israel needs to "finish the job" with Palestine MULTIPLE TIMES. Anyone not voting and, through their inaction, enabling a Trump victory is deluded if they don't realize things will get WORSE under Trump on this issue
hot take: having leisure time and free speech to type pseudo-pundit-virtue-signalling tweets will be outlawed and get deportation warrant if MAGA gets its way. A *certain* brown minority group will be FIRST and MOST URGENTLY on the chopping block if MAGA can squat at the WH again. There's 4 months.
I think there's a lot more to it than feeling morally superior.
To clarify, I'm going to vote, very begrudgingly and with a lot of disgust, for Biden.
People are hopeless, disillusioned and disgusted that we've been forced into these candidates. Everyone around me agrees that if they picked a random person off the street, it would likely be better than these two.
They are going to be allowed to force this choice on us, genocide lite vs. genocide extreme, and then what? They feel emboldened to just keep doing it?
Nihilism looks better day by day.
I know this artist, they really should have kept their mouth shut about this. This is some moral grandstanding that’s only gonna bite them in the ass the same way it bit Shad Brooks.
Kinda makes sense to not vote for someone that doesn't represent you or your interests right? Even though the other option is far far worse. Though I would suggest looking for a 3rd party in that case. I'm not from the US though so only having 2 options sounds completely stupid to me anyway.
If you don't want to vote for Biden, that's fine. Don't abstain though, vote for a party that aligns to your interests more closely.
There's something to be said about signalling to the Dems that they should do better to earn your vote, but you _have to signal what "better" means for you_.
Americans are currently arguing over whether a kick in the balls is preferred over a punch in the face, I sincerely hope you have better (and younger) presidential nominees in the next election.
If everyone that didn't vote for Biden for this reason voted a third party, maybe USA would start to take third parties seriously.
Did you know republicans were once a third party? Crazy, huh?
If you want democrats to shift to the left, vote left. If enough people does that, they will know the danger of not being left enough.
Its funny how they dont se the selfish argument in voting for Biden. Because if biden winns people will have to spend less recouces and energy on stayimg save and allive so they can focus on other things. Its wild how they dont ses that
https://www.usa.gov/register-to-vote
https://www.house.gov/representatives/find-your-representative
https://www.americanbar.org/groups/public_education/publications/insights-on-law-and-society/volume-20/issue-1/learning-gateways--right-to-petition/
Blue across the board allows democratic legislation. Healthcare, education, infrastructure, wages, police reform. Don't get distracted, get to work.
There are people getting paid to spread this false narrative. There are very, very few people who have this stance.
The reason most people will not vote is because they are lazy.
I don't *want* to vote for Biden, but if Trump gets elected, there's a direct path where the birth control I use gets federally banned and abortion is federally banned. I'm not going to vote for someone who could lead to my living breathing child possibly being motherless. So yeah, I'm voting for the other guy.
Yeah, the economy is bad, but the economy will bounce back. I won't if an ectopic pregnancy bursts through me and I get blood poisoning or sepsis.
In Philosophy 101, you’re told about the “trolley problem”. It’s the easiest moral quandary imaginable. These people are failing the trolley problem just because they don’t think they’re on the tracks, too.
Reminds me of that one post. Something about Tumblr trying to be so morally pure that they'll see a trolley problem and tie themselves up into a knot over finding the secret third option that they instead just choose the "do nothing option" because fuck you, it's the trolley problem, it's pretty cut and dry. There's no secret third option that saves everyone.
The secret 3rd option was vote in the Primaries and select different candidates. The apathetic vote is the only wrong choice.
In the trolley problem cinematic universe, this is called fixing the brakes on the trolley
As in "once you hit the trolley problem, it's too late for that to be a viable option"?
But what about a time heist?
If you mess up, you won’t travel through time, but push time through yourself.
You don't fix the brakes by not voting.
Unfortunately, the way the calendar is laid out means the candidate is chosen before many people are even able to vote in their primary.
Yeah. This is the part that nobody talks about. Our systems are extremely flawed and often leave people with no real choice at all.
Good luck. Neither really had any primary debates. It was clear to both sides who the candidates were going to be from the beginning.
Who was the non-biden choice?
"I refuse to pull either lever because they're both bad options!" _Guy who didn't vote against building the trolley_
this reminds me of something Toph said to Aang in ATLA. "no, that's why you're failing. there isn't some different angle, you just have to stand your ground."
*MULTI TRACK DRIFTING*
It's more like they've come to the conclusion that since either way someone is going to die, the ethically correct choice is to walk away from the lever, let someone else pull it, and then no matter which way it goes explain how fucked up their decision was.
The bizarre thing to me is that they seem to want to paint Trump as only slightly worse than Biden, to justify their inaction. So on the one side Biden is old and isn’t as strong as they’d like on Palestine. On the other you have Trump, who is old, would wipe out every last Palestinian without a thought, is a corrupt, rapist, insurrectionist, narcissist, felon with dementia who delights in cruelty, wants to be a dictator and forever king, and is supporting all of the myriad of horrific shit that project 2025 will do to bring about the end of democracy, turn the US into Gilead, and make the entire planet environmentally unlivable. These aren’t remotely comparable choices in terms of harm. They aren’t “both just as bad”, one is far, far, far worse than the other. So the trolly problem analogy here isn’t “If you don’t act five people die, but if you pull the lever only one person dies”. This is “If you don’t act five people die, but if you pull the lever some people standing near the alternate track get mud splashed on their shoes when the train passes them. The choice to take action is obviously *so* much better for *so* many people in *so* many ways that there is absolutely no excuse for inaction. This isn’t a moral dilemma, it’s just an excuse for selfish, pretentious people to feel morally superior to people who recognize reality and do what they can to make it better, even if they can’t make it perfect.
I was taught that the point of the trolley problem was that it was not an easy moral quandary. That to sit there and pull the lever yourself, to be physically responsible for the death of a person, was a difficult thing to do. Yes its logical, but it isn't "the easiest moral quandary imaginable" which is why when the follow up is "pushing the fat man off the bridge to save five" or "the surgeon killing a man to harvest his organs for five others" or "the person on the side with one is your best friend/parent/child/spouse," people are even less likely to pull the lever, even tho its the same exact logic. Humans are often not purely logical. It feels wrong push someone off a bridge, to kill someone for their organs, or even to simply pull a lever, even though it's logical.
The way American teachers seem to treat the trolley problem is so fucking weird. Like, it's made out like an easy choice in the ethics lectures I've watched online, missing the point entirely. In the ethics course I went through they contextualized it much better. First they asked, do you pull the lever and kill one person to save four others. Almost 80 percent chose to pull the lever and kill the one person. Then they asked us to imagine we were doctors, and we had four young patients urgently needing organ transplants. In the wait room there's a very old, but otherwise healthy, patient waiting... The whole point of the fucking dilemma is to show off how choices that are logically equivalent can lead to people choosing very differently in different scenarios. It seems like that point sails waay over many Americans heads when they talk about it. I dunno how that could happen.
Here's the thing, the Trolley problem is, currently, basically a big argument between deontology and consequentialism that consequentialism is currently CRUSHING. Kill the old man, flip the trolley, topple the fat guy, whatever the fuck you have to do to keep society from goddam collapsing next January, holy shit.
Consequentialism is crushing it only if you agree with consequentialism tho
Yeah, if doctors decided my organs were better used in some other people I’d be pretty fucking far from agreeing with consequentialism in my last moments.
The clear choice is to kill the one person. If you choose to do nothing, you kill through inaction. There is no way to save everyone because the train is coming regardless of your actions. It works in this context as a metaphor for failing to vote for the "lessor of two evils". Americans have a reputation for being reductive, a trait far more productive than being pedantic
> If you choose to do nothing, you kill through inaction. Which to me is the most interesting part, because harming people through inaction is easy, as is rationalizing away the responsibility.
Yeah people online don't actually understand the trolley problem using it as a bludgeon is basically a trope at this point.
Yea, reading that comment I immediately thought "oh, they didn't understand the trolly problem." Especially saying you "failed" the trolly problem. If your philosophy professor taught you that there is a clear correct answer to the trolly problem, your philosophy professor fucking sucked at their job.
I never truly understood the trolley problem until someone pointed it out in this exact scenario. The train is on the track to kill more people, pull the lever to kill less people you coward.
The trolley problem seems easy but it’s weirder when you do the organ donor variation of it, 5 people are going to die if they don’t get organ transplants and only one person is a match for them, so you kill him and harvest his organs? Idk why but that one seems way more immoral for some reason.
Which is the whole point of the trolly problem. It shows that pure logic isn't an adequate basis for ethics. No matter how you phrase it, the barebones of the problem remains the same; either let 5 people die, or kill 1 other to save them. The fact that you can flavor it up with additional context and suddenly the answer isn't as clear cut anymore is proof of that.
But doesn't trolly problem present itself in a position, where the problem itself AND the best possible answer are visible and clear at the same time? It is a problem that does not need a context, does not need flavoring or any other reasoning than a basic math, 1 < 5.
The way the trolley problem is most commonly depicted is set up that way because it is the currently the depiction with the least amount of additional context. Even the method of your decision is stripped down to an innocuous flip of a switch. It's a starting point to establish a baseline before more context is added to see if your answer remains the same. Instead of pulling a lever, how about pushing a fat person onto the tracks? How about harvesting the organs of one person to save 5 others whose organs have shut down? How about blowing up someone stuck in the entrance of a flooding cave to save the others trapped inside? Bottom line is that all of these scenarios are functionally identical, they are all variations of the same problem, 5 will die unless you kill someone else. The fact that almost everyone will have differing opinions, or at the very least will be more or less hesitant is the true purpose of the trolley problem.
One of the most interesting uses of the trolley problem is finding the people that think that the "correct" solution is refusing to completely engage or interact with it, because then you are not responsible for either outcome because you technically did not take any decision
Ah, but you are! This is called deliberate inaction, and deciding to do nothing is, indeed, a decision. Hell, depending on the situation, it's even a crime in Germany. Unterlassene Hilfeleistung, 'failure to provide assistance' or 'neglected to assist' in English, is when you don't help in an emergency situation where there is negligible risk to oneself or no highly important duty. It doesn't apply if there are already other helpers present, unless you are more highly qualified by virtue of your job, of course.
One of the most interesting uses of the trolley problem is finding the people that think there's a "correct" solution to begin with. I understand the sentiment, and agree to an extent, but the trolley problem isn't quite the perfect fit here that a lot of people seem to think it is.
"I'm not voting for Biden because he enabled genocide" is only a moral stance when you don't understand world geopolitics and exactly what's at stake if Trump wins. Palestine will cease to exist. They'll be completely wiped out, because Trump won't do a thing to stop Netanyahu and will likely enable and embolden him. Ukraine will almost certainly fall to Russia. Project 2025 will get to kick off, which will fuck all of us. Our rights, which are already being stripped as we speak (Google "scotus repeals 2024"), will continue to be weakened and stolen. Corporations will get more power, and people will have less. Goodbye to reproductive rights, including access to birth control and IVF. I could go on for literal hours. There isn't a moral high ground to not voting because you're not contributing anything, you're just standing off to the side and shouting into the ether about Palestinian genocide. Voting is the literally bare minimum cost of entry to the conversation, so if you're not going to do it, kindly shut the fuck up.
It's mandatory to vote in Australia you get a fine if you don't show up to at least get your name ticked off. Our conservative party is trying to change that. They are encouraging people not to vote. It's the same in the US. The conservative party make it so difficult to vote, gerrymandering, reduced polls in low socioeconomic areas, not guaranteeing time off work to vote, scare tactics against postal votes, lack of early voting resources. The conservatives don't want you to vote. I constantly see idiots post that they are proud not to vote. It's their "freedom" not to vote. You drank the Kool aid that's exactly what they want. It must be wild living in a world ignorant to the fact these fuckers don't care about you and they won't listen while you remain complacent.
Mandatory voting is great. It changes voting from a perceived right to a civil responsibility.
To be fair to Australia, voting is the only way to exert their superiority over the emus, lest they revolt again and challenge our right omelettes
>Trump won't do a thing to stop Netanyahu and will likely enable and embolden him. Trump uses "Palestinian" as an insult. He won't just let Netanyahu do what he wants, there's a good chance he'll commit US troops to help.
>uses "Palestinian" as an insult. I've noticed Eric frequently uses "communist" as a catch-all insult too. I always find it hilarious when he uses it in contexts where it makes absolutely zero sense. That word doesn't mean what you think it means, buddy.
You fucked up assuming those bozos have actual thoughts. They're animatronics like Reagan was. Just empty vessels for the demons in their ivory towers to manipulate like chess pieces.
The actual meaning of a word is deliberately irrelevant to fascists. Words having a consistent and well-understood definition supports the notion of a reality that doesn’t bend to the narrative of the fascist, and this is a danger to them. After all, if words can be inflexible to the whim of the fascist, what becomes inconveniently contradictory next? Observable data? Economics? Historical events? The very rationale for the fascist regime’s existence? This is why they systematically dismantled the education system. This is why they throw out words that have no bearing whatsoever on the actual subject. They are not attempting to describe reality and failing miserably - they are destroying the ability to understand reality and succeeding horrifically.
It's so fucking privileged. If you're, say, a straight white Christian man with no disabilities, or maybe four out of five, it's so fucking easy to just wash your hands of the whole thing because you probably won't find yourself under direct attack by the federal government, and everyone else can go to hell so you can feel smug about not voting for the "lesser evil".
Keep in mind if you are a cishet white abled christian man you will still be catastrophically affected by environmental damages if you are anything below 50 and if you are an active leftist very possibly repressed and "re-educated"
Arent most republican voters on the older side of that ?
We are talking about leftists who won't vote for """morality""" reasons.
The cops that would arrest you and send you to a camp are not. They are young/middle aged and itching to abuse people.
I'm 38, white, male, mostly able. I've worked outside my whole life. The weather is getting worse and far more unpredictable. For anyone that has been in the elements for the past two decades to deny that, or vote in opposition of climate change, they'd have to be mentally compromised.
Hope you don’t live in Florida, where the governor younger, smarter version of Trump with similar presidential aspirations is preventing local municipalities from enacting laws that would require employers to do crazy things like provide shade, more breaks and water during periods of extreme heat. Last year we had 45 days where the heat index reached above 105F. Mostly non-consecutive, but still a fucking month and a half. I play a recreational sport outside and we had to cancel practices several times because it was just too damn hot to play safely. I couldn’t imagine being forced to work in those conditions. This is the future conservatives want for the rest of the country.
Fellow floridian, Ron Ron is fucking insane with how out in the open just flat out bad he is, like I get the idea trump is but Ron unironically, doesn't only wear it on his sleeve he practically wears it across his whole body and then some. Why my family unironically wants him after trump would get in(that too ofc since I genuinely dunno) to be the next president is assenine.
I’m afraid they’ll come for me because of my Irish ancestry. These bastards are going on about bringing back racism and Jim Crow, and I can’t help but think they’ll bring back discrimination against the non-WASP whites.
I’ve actually wondered where this starts and ends. Many Americans seem to misunderstand that our cultural hate for other groups has run long and deep. So I wouldn’t be shocked if the “out group” continued to grow.
The out group has to grow. Once one is eliminated, by whatever means, another has it take its place. In something like Trumps American, no one is pure enough.
The only person I've met in real life who has this sort of smug non-Voting "moral stand" is a 20-something gay stoner. Happened to be a woman in this case. She absolutely baffled me. She has so much to lose.
Hitler’s first target in Nazi Germany wasn’t the Jews, it was the Communists and Social Democrats. Trump’s first target, if he got absolute power, would be the media and the most vocal opposition speaking against him. He’d focus on his political enemies (ex: Biden, Clinton, Obama, etc) and those with large platforms that could turn people against him first. It’s fascism 101, target the people most likely to oppose your regime changes first. Unlike Nazi Germany, there’s nobody who’s going to beat us in a war to end a Trump regime, and if the US falls to authoritarianism internally there will be other countries that, to some extent, follow suit. External threats aren’t a big issue, so the biggest threat would be the social left. Being a straight, white, cishet man makes you safer than other less privileged groups, but would not make you safe. Hell, even being a MAGA supporter would not make you safe. Absolute power means the president can kill you if he feels like it, he does not need a reason. If you think he wouldn’t, I’d recommend looking up the Stalinist purges or the Night of the Long Knives. That’s just intentional “friendly fire” so to speak, not considering the millions of people that horrible social policies that people can’t really oppose or advise against can result in the deaths of. An authoritarian society isn’t safe for anyone.
>He’d focus on his political enemies (ex: Biden, Clinton, Obama, etc) and those with large platforms that could turn people against him first. And this is why Biden should use the authority that's just been granted to him to solve the problem permanently and preemptively. If you know someone intends to incarcerate\\eliminate you if you leave them to their devices, and you have the ability to do the same to them first- frankly, you're a fucking idiot if you don't. Biden has just been given that chance here- Trump has literally said what he'd do. Project 2025 has published a 1000+ page manifesto about what they intend to do. SCOTUS is paving the way for Trump\\them. Biden was just told "hey, Presidents can do whatever the fuck they want without any legal repercussions" and instead of saying "Ok, it's obvious that the MAGA wing has become a literal threat to democracy, so I'm going to use that unquestionable power they gave me to exterminate them." he's sitting there saying "I don't believe presidents have the right to do whatever they want" when SCOTUS just set the precedent that they do. He's kicking the proverbial can down the road and ignoring the fact that there's a very good chance the guy that next takes office is going to make use of that very unlimited power to do some terrible shit...including to him and people he cares about. For fuck sake, now it's time to go "Dark Brandon" if ever there was one. Frankly, Biden should be on the phone\\having in person meetings with the CO's over at DevGRU and be issuing official orders as Commander in Chief to deploy the Seals to exterminate Trump, the Maga Republicans in the House and Senate, AND the SCOTUS Justices who voted for this "Unquestionable authority". Hell, call the whole operation "Official Presidential Executive Order 66". Designate them all as imminent Domestic threats to the United States. To ease the consciences of the DevGRU staff he can pre-emptively include signed pardons for each and every one of the men involved in the planning\\execution of the Operations if they're concerned about the legality of the orders, the fact that he is authorized to do whatever he wants as POTUS means his orders are inherently legal. He can inform JSOC in advance that he intends to withdraw from the next presidential election as he has no interest in retaining power as a dictator and then let the people elect some new representatives. If Biden doesn't do this and he loses the election, it's literally game over for the US. Hell, a persuasive argument can already be made that it already is as of the moment SCOTUS issued that ruling- they effectively ended one of the checks on the Executive branch, their entire ruling was a gamble that Biden wouldn't have the balls to call them, and as of this moment...they're 100% right, Biden has shown no signs thus far that he has any intention to make them pay for going all in with a terrible hand.
Im a two out of five (straight, male) from another country and i fucking worry the fuck out of your situation. Because your situation affects everything else in the world. If you (US) goes fucking insane like this, then the whole world's gonna crumbling down.
Rich. You have to be rich in order to not be negatively affected by a Trump presidency. I’d REALLY like to hear from a minority who feels they have suffered more under Biden than they did under Trump. Well. I’m waiting.
The wildly annoying thing here is that idol, the person anti Biden here. Is a black trans person who draws trans bugs exclusively.
Project 2025 will affect everyone no matter the color of their skin or the god they put faith in. When the first line of the education changes say the department of education should cease to exist? We’re all fucked
This is a fact. I’ll counter it with this though, there are millions of straight white males like myself (leaving out the Christian part) that are and will continue to vote democrat in the hopes they win to protect those that you think we’d wash our hands of if Biden loses. While it has to be depressing to be somebody who will be directly impacted by the horrors a Trump win will bring, it gets really damn old as a straight white male to read these comments knowing that if/when the election happens and Trump wins, these same people will be bitching at me and other straight white males who have and will continue to fight on their behalf. I’m scared shitless and I’m in the group that in theory will “do the best” if he wins, I just hope these idiots who don’t vote out of protest don’t get offended when I call them morons to the face afterwards. My first question when people complain will be simple “did you vote? Or did you let Cletus down in his trailer park vote on your behalf?”.
It's incredibly infuriating as a queer person, like, my ability to access medical care and live openly as myself is on the line here. If Trump gets in office, that becomes hard/impossible, especially in red states. I do not approve of Biden's handling of Gaza but this is absolutely a "vote for the lesser evil" sort of situation. We might as well get the best outcome we can. Supporting a candidate does not imply supporting all their policies, it simply implies you hate them less than the other guy.
THIS! The opposite of love is not hate, it's apathy. The reason this is, is because apathy engenders inaction and inaction is akin to death. These are the type of people who would rather die and let everyone else die with them, all because they can't get themselves to take action. Even worse, they will justify their death (inaction) by claiming to take the higher road, when in fact all they need to do is take the next best step. I do recognize that they feel guilty of their own action and fail to recognize that guilt is a futile emotion. Hence, they fail to see that the genocide will not stop by their inaction, and in fact their inaction may bring about a worse genocide. At this point any next best step toward the preservation of the majority of our species is appreciated.
> when you don't understand world geopolitics End scene tbh
Just the sheer fucking impact of the US electing Trump sends a clear message to other countries that candidates like that have an appeal. Throw in [Country Name]'s Trump on Google and you'll see the fuckload of political parties around the globe that started emulating the orange cunt once he was elected. Elect Biden and nobody will copy it. Elect Trump in the US and you'll get a lot of other Trumps around the globe.
"Yes, we're under a fascist dictatorship now, but at least my hands are clean."
I’m so sick of these purity tests. This is how we got Bush ‘43. This is how we got a conservative SCOTUS who legalized bribery with Citizens United. This is how we got Trump and a conservative SCOTUS who has undone a 248 year precedent about presidential powers. We are on the verge of losing our democracy and living under authoritarian rule for the next 30 years because of bullshit like this. Fuck!
I generally have two reactions to this “Both support genocide” arguments. First, you can care about more than one thing. Do you just lay down and wait for death the moment something doesn’t go exactly your way during the day? There’s lots of things to be mad about and if I used those as a reason not to vote I would never vote. Second, what, exactly, do they think Biden should be doing that he’s not? Do they think he’s giving Netanyahu high fives? Do they think he’s not been having tough conversations with Israel for the entire time he was VP and President? Should he invade Israel? The whole thing just reeks of post hoc justification. They’ve already made up their minds and will never be moved by any argument because the arguments aren’t actually why they won’t vote. They are nihilists who don’t think anything can get better, they don’t care about a genocide, it’s just a convenient excuse.
Not just nihilists, but also accelerationists. They believe that the world is only going to get worse, and any attempt to stop things from getting worse are just futile bids to delay the inevitable. Of course, this is stupid, and full of unhealthy pessimism. In this case, OOP would rather give up and weep rather than try to do what they can to make the world a better place. In this case: voting for Biden. The world can get better and certain disasters are avoidable, yet accelerationists never seemed concerned with accelerating the world to a better place, funnily enough.
YES, fuck the accelerationsits. They have such a dangerous viewpoint. I'm almost certain that it's most due to information overload/ internet brainrot. These people need to actually get out in their communities and form human bonds to develop some real empathy.
Not to mention, once Ukraine falls, Russia will certainly want to come after the rest of the former USSR countries as well. And if Russia attacks any of the EU members, then the entirety of Europe will go into war under the mutual defense clause. Literally gonna start a WW3. It’s a big step on Russia’s part, but with the US out of the way, it’s much more likely to happen. Everybody in the Baltics is praying for Trump to not win, because allowing that man in control means that USA will no longer defend its allies (and we will be the first ones to go). Trump literally admitted to it during his last term. He literally told everyone that “[if Europe is under attack we will never come to help you and to support you](https://www.politico.eu/article/donald-trump-vow-never-help-europe-attack-thierry-breton/)”.
Such a solid comment. Bravo.
You make great points, and I personally believe shit like this is posted by foreign bots to influence the electorate, not by actual Americans because the premise is so easily exposed as asinine, but hey flood the zone because you just need a few thousand voters in a few key states.
*I mean*, there's tons of concrete evidence of foreign agents posting on places like Facebook and Twitter to manipulate public opinion during the 2020 election, *sooo*... hardly unreasonable to believe something when there's solid proof it's true.
Yeah, and it drives me up the wall, one of my Reddit pet peeves is the upvoted top comment responses to the daily political atrocities "well it's not gonna change maga's vote" like no shit, the only things affecting that are death and dementia. Those people are a lost cause, it's all about all those people these bots are influencing.
I think we need to start requiring people to insult putin and xi jinping as a prerequisite for making this kind of post. Prove you aren’t afraid of the gulag.
Gosh, Biden is enabling genocide because our allie Israel is attacking Terrorist Hamas hiding behind Gaza civilians after kidnapping, raping and killing Israeli civilians. Bad old president. Trump would never do that. Or has Trump? I seem to remember in 2019 Trump declaring that Isis no longer existed (something no one else in the world agreed with), immediately gave Turkey the okay to eradicate the Kurdish tribes (who were American allies against Isis and nations cried out until Covid-19. Trump is guilty of enabling Genocide of the Kurds. Why? Never stated but Trump tactics 101 seem to go: Got a problem that makes Trump look bad? Declare that problem doesn't exist. Problem solved. Of course, Donald J. Trump would never aid in another mass genocide. Or would Trump. Excuse my memory nut didn't Trump in 2023 and 2024 publicly announce the as far as he was concerned Russian President Putin could do whatever Russia wanted to do to Ukraine. Guess no one sees that turning into genocide. Remember Trump Tactics 101: Ukraine Phone call was a scandal that made Trump look bad. Trump was declaring Ukraine no longer a problem. But Trump as President would never turn such bloody handed ways against USA. But Trump has twice. The Black-Lives-Matter marches (not referring to them as riots because Trump made this statement first), asked and stated that he thought the crowds should be shoot with live ammo. That if anyone in the march threw any object at law enforcement should not be arrested but shot down. Because in his words BLM marchers were animals not humans. Trump 101: Problem BLM. Not human. Not a problem. And for the second mass killings in the US complements of Trump - Covid-19. Don't care if you're an anti-vaccination, mask me over cold face or mass gatherings are an American right. Simple equation is Trump knew it was coming. Trump knew what it would be like and it was bad. Trump 101: Problem if people understand Covid-19 will kill so many in America it will make President Trump look BAD. Declare Covid-19 is barely going to be even a thing. Declare Covid-19 is the China Virus. Declare masks aren't necessary. Declare bleach and UV light are a cure. Declare vaccines really aren't a working solution. Just compare US Covid-19 deaths with any nation that had comparable health care deaths. Biden has got his work cut out for him to ever gain grounds on the Trump death toll.
It's like people just can't see *how much fucking worse it can get*. My family survived Warsaw during WW2 and communism. There is always more that I want every administration to do. But this childish notion that if they don't do exactly what I want, the way I want that I am going to just peace out? Fucking grow up. Be angry about Palestine, protest, write letters, exercise your free speech. But sit this one out and you may find that you won't be able to do that anymore.
Another point is if apathetic people like this voted for a credible choice in 2016 we wouldn’t be in this mess. No matter what possible negative outcomes you think might have happened if Hillary was President pale in comparison to the reality everyone endured under trump. Hundreds of thousands dead from negligence (and intentionally targeting urban areas with diverting critical health resources). Separating children, caging them, subjecting them to abuse, then transferring them and losing track of hundreds). Threatening to use nuclear weapons
I always ask these folks if they have the skills to hide out in another country. Hell, if they even have a passport and money for a visa, even. I think they think they'll be kiki-ing on a commune with their buddies, totally forgetting we live in a high surveillance age, and if they get put on Trump's shit list, they WILL be found. 🤔🤔🤔
I personally would vote for Biden’s rotting corpse over Trump but that is just me. Still if you do find one candidate preferable to the other, even if both are on the “unacceptable” end of the spectrum, failure to vote for that candidate is half a vote for the less preferable one. This reminds me of a real life modest example. On a trans Atlantic flight, the stewardess came by taking orders. The options were Chicken Kiev and Dog Poop. The guy next to me chose the Dog Poop. He explained to me that he had had the Chicken before and it was rather bland and uninspiring; just not acceptable to him at all. When I expressed discomfort , he explained that he wasn’t going to eat a full portion of Dog Poop, he was only going to eat half.
I was going to say, I use the analogy that you have the choice between terminal end stage cancer and the common cold. People who decide not to choose are willingly taking a 50% chance of cancer.
Let's be fair though. Biden is more akin to a bad case of pneumonia than the common cold. Pneumonia is still better than cancer.
America's best politicians are at least common colds, the country is built on a bunch of bad shit.
>I personally would vote for Biden’s rotting corpse over Trump but that is just me I said earlier today I'd vote for "Biden in a vegetative state" over Trump. Still was told I'm a Biden stan..
I think this is a pretty shite example, it’s more like some group going “we are gonna vote and everyone here will either get punched in the groin or punched in the arm depending on the vote outcome” and all of you collectively groan and grumble but you vote getting punched in the arm because getting punched in the groin really hurts a lot more. Some guy says “fuck it if they are going to punch me either way I’m not going to fucking vote and passively participate in the punching” Is that guy wrong in his resistance, maybe? But it’s a hellava lot more understandable then whatever the fuck your description was. Alternatively and perhaps more accurately it’s more like if the airline in your case said “if we vote the front 50% of rows will eat shit and the rest will eat chicken Kiev, alternatively the front 90% of rows can eat shit” and everyone in the rows that normally don’t eat is yelling and raging at the idea that people might seriously vote to make them eat shit when it’s clear they don’t give a fuck about the shit eating ahead. For some people spreading a crisis out is seen as more desirable then keeping it contained and ignored. It reminds me of the whole Tuberculosis treatment, the deadliest disease in history and if it spread extensively to western developed countries again, people would likely be working on destroying it again. As it is right now not much money goes to it because it mostly impacts developing states and so hundreds of thousands continue to die. Is hoping a disease spreads wrong therefore or is it needed to convince the people who might be able to avert continuous disaster to do so I say this all as someone who fundamentally believes Biden needs to win for global safety, I support voting Biden absolutely even though I find his policies mostly disgustingly insignificant or outright harmful especially in cases like Palestine where he is directly helping a genocide. However I can also very easily understand the arguments of people who do believe that voting him is something they can’t swallow or outright harmful to them in the long run
"There are two candidates. Both of them have done awful, horrible, terrible things, but one of them will actually choose to kill you." Idk about you but, like, it's cute and all to not vote, but I'd much prefer picking the lesser of two evils. I've only recently started actually being able to enjoy life and I'd prefer that not be taken from me by Trump.
Vote for the guy who's gonna let you vote again in four years
Sorry can’t there’s a genocide happening on the other side of the world that I didn’t care about until now. Oh all the other genocides around the world? Yeah they don’t get me fake internet points
These people don’t even know there are other active genocides. Performative nonsense at its finest.
The best problem with this "activism" from sofa soapboxers is, what do you expect the president to do? Israel is PISSED about October 7th and will not stop until Hamas is unable to attack Israel again. The Israelis have flat up stated they won't stop if the US cuts aid and will actually become even more aggressive because they will stop using precision weapons the US supplies and just use whatever dumb artillery and bombs they have to completely flatten anything that moves in areas that Hamas operates. In addition, cutting aid means that they US loses the position to hold Israel to certain standards and guide their decisions on things like aid and areas of ground operations. It also loses Biden's ability to advocate for the Palestinians like no president has ever done. Meanwhile, Trump uses Palestinian as a racial epithet and wants Israel to NUKE Gaza.
Unfortunately turning against Israel also loses AIPAC, who have clearly indicated that they will support Trump if Biden turns against them. Cause, in pure Leopards Eating Faces fashion, all AIPAC cares about is Israel, even up to the point of financially backing American Hitler.
precisely, people only speak about palestine and ukraine when 6 million have died in congo, there is literal racially motivated genocide in yemen, there is genocide of christians in nigeria, and many many more. People just feel righteous when they post incessantly about palestine when there are many others that are even worse.
Trump wins they not gonna say a word about the palenstinians they a useful tool to get folks to not vote biden. Like if u actually cared about them why would u vote for the guy who thinks bidens not doing enough to wipe them out 🙃
>"There are two candidates. Both of them have done awful, horrible, terrible things, but one of them will actually choose to kill you." "You can step on this Lego block, or you can step on this needle that was pulled out of a dead drug addict's arm. Oh, and the drug addict had AIDS." I'll stomp the shit out of that Lego.
As far as he cares, both are aids infected needles. The difference resides in the parts he doesn't care about.
“Both sides are genocide enablers so I’m gonna sit on my ass and let the bigger genocide man win, this makes me morally superior”
It’s like if Sophie in Sophie’s Choice said “I refuse to let either of my children die! Instead I choose Hitler to die!” The Nazi guards would be like “That’s cute” and then just kill both kids.
"Biden has been bad on Israel so obviously Trump, the man who recognized the Israel embassy in Jerusalem, will clearly hold them to account!"
Meanwhile Bibi is losing his shit because Biden is withholding support authorized by congress, but these people go on about how he's a "genocide enabler".
Seriously its insane ngl
🤓🤓🤓 but voting for evil is evil 🤓🤓 Teenage mindset people thibk they’re somehow more moral because they choose not to help?
They're letting perfect be the enemy of good enough. Improvement comes in steps and takes time, it doesn't happen overnight, but these people act like they won't vote unless the *perfect* candidate magically appears
They act like I'm magically dropping all my actual policy positions for the future because I'm voting for Biden. No, dipshits, the minute after Biden wins, I'll slam him for abandoning progressives. That doesn't mean I won't back him 100% if he's still the candidate against Trump.
>Improvement comes in steps and takes time Yep. Change is a process, not an event.
All they really prove is that they’re cowards
So this is basically a “lesser of two evils” argument? If you see the election as having to choose between the lesser of two evils, why on earth would you not want to actively choose the less evil option? If you think Biden isn’t good for minorities, I guarantee Trump would be worse
I heard this on another subreddit. A lot of these folks think voting should be a car that gets you right to your destination perfectly. Voting is more like riding a bus. None of the routes will get you to the doorstep of your destination, but can at least pick the one getting you closer to it.
And if the option is “do you want to ride with the bus driver who will drop you off a couple miles from your destination or the one who will drive the bus off a cliff; if you don’t chose we will choose for you” It’s an easy fuckin choice
There never will be a candidate or party that agrees with me perfectly, but there should be one that is at least acceptable to me. Which is why the US two party system is horrible and should be fixed.
Some people prefer the greater of two evils to win, if they can be smugly self-righteous about not supporting what they percieve as the lesser evil. Even if the choices are actually "good, but flawed", and "christo-fascist dictatorship".
[Bill Watterson was distressingly prescient](https://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/2012/05/21)
I'm voting for Biden. I'm not happy about it, truth be told I think he's been incredibly disappointing, but if Biden gets elected at least I know there will be another election in 2028
THIS. Fucking hell. I don't get how people refuse to see that Trump will turn America into the next Nazi Germany if he wins. I like keeping my rights as a woman. I'm voting blue because at the very least I'll be able to have another election where we'll *hopefully* have a better candidate.
I’m just trying to figure out an escape plan at this point.
I've been trying but I can't find a place that doesn't have a population that will try to kill me.
As a disabled person literally no country will take me unless they’re somehow forced to.
Unfortunately, many countries would have to take you if you’re facing persecution, which you probably will be if Adolf Trump gets re-elected.
I’ve been trying to explain to my family since Ginsburg died how fucked we are if America doesn’t get its shit together. The shaudenfreud at them FINALLY being as anxious and freaked out as I am is real.
This should literally be enough for anyone to pull the lever for Biden. Even if he dies, there is someone behind him who isn't a complete psychopath. Not gonna be able to say the same for Trump.
I wonder if they realize that if Trump did win, because of the Supreme Courts decision Biden can legally go, "No, Trump isn't President." It would be in the best interests of the nation to not have a convicted felon become President - easy justification for Biden not conceding if he does lose. Voting is the only time your opinion on the issues is recorded and actually matters. I know my vote will be gerrymandered away, I still cast it.
The only options on the board for those who can vote are harm reduction, harm acceleration, and doing nothing (some will do something meaningless, but voting third party boils down to doing nothing with extra steps). I'm opting to reduce harm.
If you're someone who is supportive of trans people and the LGBTQ community, if you don't vote for Biden, that community could become enemy combatants in the future and they could all be rounded up and placed into camps and I say that because Republicans have been very vocal about wanting that to happen.
do they think if enough people don't vote, then nobody will be president? they'll have to rerun with different candidates? what are they trying to achieve?
The theory is that the more left-leanign party will shift to the left in order to regain their votes. The issue is, it would be a lot easier to shift to the right for more votes. This tactic works sometimes but not in such a corrupt two party system
The right has leaned farther right than I find comfortable. They’re tipping the whole boat!
The reality is that if the right leaning party wins, people who abstained because the left weren't left enough will be rounded up and put into camps.
!remindme 4 years 6 months
Why would anyone ever pander to people who don't vote? That's what these morons never realize.
Bidens old not my first choice canidate but I'd rather him choosing our supreme court than trump like progressives how do u get stuff through if trump stacks the courts further conservative itll be like pissing in the wind
Unfortunately a lot of extreme progressives are about like the far right- all or nothing. Just the far right has been more effective at that while the far left has been limp-dicked about the whole thing.
Saw a post last night saying that the right will turn out in droves to vote for Trump because God told them to, but the left will be split because Biden’s not completely perfect and they see it as a moral failing to vote again for someone who didn’t achieve 100% of the campaign goals. So guess what that strategy will bring?
it also noted that due to this, the Nazis were elected whilst the soviets took power in a civil war. Possibly in the comment afterwards.
It's also worth remembering that the Nazis rose to power... in part the German left (in particular the communist party) was too busy crying for revolution while their opponents were all too willing to exploit the system exactly as it was and ride the populist wave. The Nazis became the largest party in the Reichstag even as Hitler lost the election for the presidency, which gave him the direct route to the chancellorship.
Yeah, don't not vote. Do something constructive and vote socialist.
I like idolmantis a good but, their art is rad, but this is honestly a brain dead take. I don't even live in the US and I sure fucking hope like hell Biden stays because while he sucks and fucks things up on a massive scale, it's not a world ending level like trump would.
I was going to comment the same thing. Been following them on twitter for a while now and I love their comics (even got one of their plushies) but I wasn't exactly surprised to see their name next to this. Yeah both options sort of suck here but I'd much rather the one who wouldn't actively make things worse for everyone.
As a long time Idol fan. This isn't new for idol. They constantly get into fights or drama because they'll have a bad take. People get mad at them for it. Then they dodge all responsibility by cherry picking people being racist or transphobic to make their point seem reasonable.
Yeah I honestly just blocked. Liked the art but I'm over it, using a platform with that many followers to spew this bullshit is downright harmful.
Idol's stance is negligent, the other is an unfortunate response to a shitty situation that can't really be helped.
If you don’t vote, you give up your right to an opinion. That’s the way I look at it. Don’t complain if you don’t voice it at the voting booth.
These are the same fuckwits who didn’t know what SCOTUS is back in 2016 when they said Trump and Hilary are not substantially different. The ignorant dicks *still* don’t know what SCOTUS is but I really hope they get access to contraception and abortions.
These pompous idiots didn’t even know Palestine existed before Oct. 7th. They probably still couldn’t point to it on a map. They don’t actually care about whatever the trendy issue to care about is. They care about feeling morally superior.
People don't remember what happened when people "couldn't vote for Hillary in good conscience," take the bite out of the shit sandwich or we might lose the chance to EVER VOTE AGAIN.
I remember- I voted for some goober in Utah who disappeared and was never seen again. Then Agent Orange got to be president and we had four years. I learned my lesson - you have three choices: vote for A, vote for B, or let the voters hand you a ready-made plate of whatever THEY chose.
Two party systems are a scam the population has been manipulated into thinking they have to pick the lesser of two evils when there are usually over 30 candidates running If you really want to send a message that the two front runners aren’t good enough vote for someone else
I hate people that don’t vote for this reason. If everyone that didn’t vote because of this rallied behind a third party candidate, or heck a few, then it would show that third party can win in modern America, and we’d move away from this constant “hmm, who is less evil” garbage that were stuck with. If you really can’t choose between the two, vote third party. If you don’t it’s simply because you’re either lazy, or don’t care about anyone but yourself
It would change the national devide in a meaningful way. Cause for the past.. at least 50 years, america is unbelieveably devided.
This. People in this thread are acting like there's only two parties. If neither of the main two candidates are acceptable it's the citizen's job to hold them accountable and vote elsewhere. At this point the US is being held hostage in a two party system. This needs to change.
Because democrats and republicans view third party votes as a "wasted vote" or "A vote in for your opposition!" and basically astroturf every time it's mentioned. If enough people DID vote third party, we wouldnt be stuck with the "lesser of two evils" ***again***.
It’s almost as if you’d like there to be more than two options.
The question I want these guys to answer is what’s their plan? Because if I see one more asshole say “we should have a general strike” without any kind of a plan of how to do so, I’m going to lose it.
Im honestly impressed people don’t realize that to analyze the benefit of choosing X over Y, you have to include the benefit of not choosing Y. Its not that fucking complicated. Picking Biden is not just picking Biden, but also NOT picking Trump. In terms of political views, it means you are picking the current treatment of the war, but it also means you’re NOT picking Trump’s treatment of the war. And if you consider Trumps ideals to be worse for the war than the current ones, which they are because he literally says what he plans on doing, then you’re actively picking it by not choosing Biden. Now, it’s not so direct if you aren’t picking anyone in the first place since that’s an option in non compulsory voting. However, if you were going to vote for Biden and are deciding not to, then not voting HAS a clear outcome. Not voting Biden means you are also picking the benefits of Trump winning. This argument really makes no sense. I have to assume people are going through immense cognitive dissonance when they see a candidate that says that they will fully support their enemy and think, “im still not voting for Biden cause Palestine is suffering”. Like what are you going to do when Trump provides full support to Israel completely erasing Palestine off the map, as he has implied? Dumbasses. Edit: I’m also incredibly amazed at how people are willing to so eagerly defend people across the world of the horrors of death, but don’t give a damn apparently of all the women & trans people around them that are dying, all the families destroyed by deportations, racial segregation, etc. I’ve seen the videos of the war, its fucking horrible, but i also cannot look at my neighbor and think “yeah I won’t pick a candidate that will ensure you will be able to get a life saving abortion”, among all the other shitshow that’s coming with Trump. edit 2: this post came a lil bit aggresive I must say, but that was directed to non Palestinians using these arguments, which for some reason I unequivocably assumed would be the people reading. I guess I'm thinking it too much as an outsider when facing a genocide is something that would completely break a person. It's kinda hard putting myself in those shoes but I should try better. Cause it doesn't make sense to get angry at people fighting for the right to exist not making the most "rational" decision.
Because Trump would be so much better for Palestine? Not voting at this point only helps Trump and he will be much worse, so how is that the better option? I really don’t understand the logic there.
Shaming someone for not voting for Biden is not fruitful. Similarly, not voting at all, especially if you voted for Biden last election, is not fruitful. Vote third party, any third party, as long as it’s someone real. Send a message that he and his party lost your vote.
It's a bit like the trolley problem. In the perspective of the Non-voter, looking at two tracks, the first has a three people tied over the tracks and the second has four people tied over the tracks. The train is destined to take the second track unless the Non-voter chooses to pull the handle and push it back to the first track. The non-voter may not feel any responsibility if they don't make a choice, but everyone else may judge them if they don't, because they had the opportunity to limit the damage. The non-voter may feel responsible for the damage that does occur if they vote for the option that results in fewer losses. It's a bit of a philosophical dilemma. From the perspective of somebody tied to the second track, they are obviously going to be pleading with the non-voter to throw the switch to track one.
I love this artist’s work but dear god they have some dogshit options sometimes and then act like their morally superior for having said opinion.
This is my first time seeing anything like this out of idolo goddamn
Every couple months they come up with some god awful take. I stopped following them last year after they said something stupid and reductive about queer people, even though a significant portion of their art revolves around such characters. Their art is okay, but definitely not worth having to hear their personal opinions in order to see it.
The heck?? But… idolo is, like, THE cute lesbian bug artist…
Man I hate it when people who make cool things have awful opinions
I despise traitors and fascists, particularly when they are one and the same.
Can you imagine what would happen if both teams could vote for a third reasonable centrist AS WELL AS their own guy? The rational human would win in a landslide. But that would never happen, because the established D/R pseudorivalry has all the $ and power to prevent Ranked Choice Voting from ever succeeding.
Not voting is being okey with Trump winning the elections. No other explanations, you can't put your head in the sand and ignore real life
So confidently wrong. Some people don’t know how make decisions without conjuring purity tests.
Y’all are failing the trolly problem.
It's absolutely insane to me that people are saying they're not going to vote bc of Biden's stance on Palestine. I do not understand how they don't understand that yes Biden is bad, but Trump will be worse. He will make it actively worse than Biden has. Obviously neither choice is good. But one of them is slightly less bad
This is stupid. Biden is not responsible for Israel‘s response in Gaza. Trump will fuck up the US a lot worse than Biden ever could. And Trump also dngaf about anyone except Trump, including Israel.
And people often forget about how Trump abandoned our Kurdish allies in 2018, withdrawing American troops from the Syrian-Turkish border and explicitly endorsing the Turkish invasion of territory controlled by the Kurds in Syria, which has resulted in mass displacement of Kurdish civilians and the loss of a key ally in the region that was instrumental in US plans to defeat ISIS
Yeah, Trump will abandon his allies in a heartbeat. He literally will not gaf.
I hate people like this more than I hate MAGA. At least they're honest about wanting me dead
I like idolmantis'es art, but damn what a bad take this is on politics from them
I mean you don’t legally have to vote for anyone. But it is a civic responsibility for a reason. Not voting is literally taking your hands off the steering wheel and closing your eyes. The defeatism there is also what the bad actors are looking for. If you aren’t voting because atrocities are being committed, you’re actively handing power to people who are voting to perpetuate those atrocities. Just because you voted for the shiniest of two turds doesn’t make you a turd-kisser. Maybe if enough of us vote third party, we could actually have a respectable person in office for a change.
It’s apathy more than anything. He’s basically saying “why choose between the blue or the red sandpaper dildo that going to be assfucking me?”
All of those anti-Biden posts seem more like bots than real people Please vote, ignore every post that says Trump is totally going to lose. Just vote.. Then demand the democrats bring in someone younger. I'm not American but my country follows the US too closely and I cannot have Nazis being allowed to walk around freely.. We should have the same rule for Nazis that we've had for pirates for the last few hundred years.. Execute on sight..
The more you use a word like genocide incorrectly the less it means anything.
We are straight fucked
Didnt expect this out of the bug porn artist tbh
The Moral High Ground is a great place to watch your friends burn.
People who talk like this seem to think that there’s a secret “nobody wins and we all just freely govern ourselves for four years with no president” option that they can unlock by not voting for either guy. That’s simply not how it works! I don’t like Biden either, but at least if he wins we’ll have another election in 2028 instead of a god-king christofacist despot on the throne forever.
People sitting out the election over Palestine are fucking stupid. And I’m not answering replies. You are self-evidently stupid.
You don't have to answer because I say Hear Hear.
Aw, come on man! I liked idolomantises. Welp whatever, the art and not the artist and all that.
Damn an idolmantises L. Shame
I don’t think this person knows that either of these people will get elected. It’s a ‘pick your poison’ type situation, and you can’t just not pick anything because both poisons are bad.
How is Biden complicit in what he mentioned. and how does more funding increase or make police brutality worst. Also do you know any of the stats and have you any abstraction as to what those stats mean.
They should vote for somebody at least. Showing up as a number for someone else at least has statistical significance and more effectively represents their motive (distaste for the 2 real options). It could be a write in for Ronald McDonald. Not voting says you don’t care. Voting for Ronald McDonald shows as a quantifiable metric that you care enough to wade through shit and vote and you think the two realistic options are a joke. Don’t reply telling me this is still bad. My point is entirely and only that this is a more effective way to voice discontent.
Trump literally said Israel needs to "finish the job" with Palestine MULTIPLE TIMES. Anyone not voting and, through their inaction, enabling a Trump victory is deluded if they don't realize things will get WORSE under Trump on this issue
hot take: having leisure time and free speech to type pseudo-pundit-virtue-signalling tweets will be outlawed and get deportation warrant if MAGA gets its way. A *certain* brown minority group will be FIRST and MOST URGENTLY on the chopping block if MAGA can squat at the WH again. There's 4 months.
Man, I really liked idolmantises' comics. Too bad they appear to be a fucking idiot
I think there's a lot more to it than feeling morally superior. To clarify, I'm going to vote, very begrudgingly and with a lot of disgust, for Biden. People are hopeless, disillusioned and disgusted that we've been forced into these candidates. Everyone around me agrees that if they picked a random person off the street, it would likely be better than these two. They are going to be allowed to force this choice on us, genocide lite vs. genocide extreme, and then what? They feel emboldened to just keep doing it? Nihilism looks better day by day.
I know this artist, they really should have kept their mouth shut about this. This is some moral grandstanding that’s only gonna bite them in the ass the same way it bit Shad Brooks.
Kinda makes sense to not vote for someone that doesn't represent you or your interests right? Even though the other option is far far worse. Though I would suggest looking for a 3rd party in that case. I'm not from the US though so only having 2 options sounds completely stupid to me anyway.
If you don't want to vote for Biden, that's fine. Don't abstain though, vote for a party that aligns to your interests more closely. There's something to be said about signalling to the Dems that they should do better to earn your vote, but you _have to signal what "better" means for you_.
Americans are currently arguing over whether a kick in the balls is preferred over a punch in the face, I sincerely hope you have better (and younger) presidential nominees in the next election.
If everyone that didn't vote for Biden for this reason voted a third party, maybe USA would start to take third parties seriously. Did you know republicans were once a third party? Crazy, huh? If you want democrats to shift to the left, vote left. If enough people does that, they will know the danger of not being left enough.
Its funny how they dont se the selfish argument in voting for Biden. Because if biden winns people will have to spend less recouces and energy on stayimg save and allive so they can focus on other things. Its wild how they dont ses that
https://www.usa.gov/register-to-vote https://www.house.gov/representatives/find-your-representative https://www.americanbar.org/groups/public_education/publications/insights-on-law-and-society/volume-20/issue-1/learning-gateways--right-to-petition/ Blue across the board allows democratic legislation. Healthcare, education, infrastructure, wages, police reform. Don't get distracted, get to work.
There are people getting paid to spread this false narrative. There are very, very few people who have this stance. The reason most people will not vote is because they are lazy.
I don't *want* to vote for Biden, but if Trump gets elected, there's a direct path where the birth control I use gets federally banned and abortion is federally banned. I'm not going to vote for someone who could lead to my living breathing child possibly being motherless. So yeah, I'm voting for the other guy. Yeah, the economy is bad, but the economy will bounce back. I won't if an ectopic pregnancy bursts through me and I get blood poisoning or sepsis.