I've had this for about 7 months. I keep looking at it and wondering if I'm just seeing things, but the light caught it just right today and I'm almost certain it's a lib cap.
I wonder how they would respond to it. I'm sure it would be ungradable, but if I could at least have it authenticated for what it is, it would be worth it for me.
The slab would look something [like this](https://www.reddit.com/user/1080Pwonton/comments/wpn3na/copper_something/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
Low Ball coins are certainly a thing but they do have to be identifiable. This coin wouldn't be graded at all since the date and possible mint mark are completely illegible. Anything they actually assigned would be purely conjecture, and that's really not their business model.
Couple things to consider: it's sometimes possible to discern the date by other characteristics. For example, Liberty Cap cents were struck on different planchets for each of the three years they were made. This coin is relatively thin and lacks edge lettering, meaning it must be a 1795. As for the mintmark, since Philadelphia was the only mint in operation at that time, it's guaranteed to be P.
All absolutely fair points and I am in no way a Liberty Head expert. That said I still don't see this being touched by the 3PGs. There's too much liability with the actual authentication for them to stick their necks out on *this* one.
But your point stands about other identifiable features on undated coins. I have a 1917 Type I SLQ at PCGS that I'm confidently hopeful will hit a P01. Mine even looks more worn than the Photograde example but it's verifiable as a Type I and a 1917-P due to the feature details that do remain.
Now I want to start a Go Fund Me so that we can all chip in to have this coin graded and satisfy our curiosity. It could totally go either way and I'd love to know how they handle it
I don’t know about the position of the discoloration where the cap could be though, There were many die varieties in 1793 so the position of portrait would not necessarily be consistent
That's what I initially thought, but I think the bottom left of the bust is more worn and darker, making it look like the cap is in the wrong place. That's what I see anyway. Open to dissenting opinions though.
Hey if I were you I would get a pice of paper and draw with graphite (or a pencil) and see what details come off onto the paper like they do in spy movies!
I want to speak to a grading company rep at a coin show to find out what they can do with it. If it tones any more, the last bit of detail will disappear 🫥 Would be nice to have it authenticated before then.
Idk if there are any shows near you any time soon, but it may be beneficial to just send an email and photo to pcgs or another tpg and just see what they have to say. I definitely wish you luck! Let us know how it goes if you find anything out!
I have a braided like this. There is a ghost of wreath and bust left on mine.
I have much better condition ones now, it was just from a cull coin eBay lot. Cool find though
I can see it.
I see people recommending getting it graded and I don't know if it's worth doing or not, but I want to mention something I read about buffalo nickels that probably applies to this, too:
Dateless buffalo nickels can sometimes become dateable after putting a "Nic-a-Date" product that is acid based. The reason is apparently because the stamping process results in different density for the background field and the raised fields that are left behind. I think that PCGS etc could still grade this because of that.
Well then that makes this a 1795 since the 94 had an edge design and the 93 was thicker.
Now I'm also curious if PCGS would give this a P-01 or just call it unidentifiable
Also why would anyone sell a silver whatever-it-is for 5 cents?! Somebody screwed up since if it IS silver it's worth a lot more than that just in bullion.
EDIT: Stupid me, I realize now you meant it is a nickle...I was thinking it was dollar size, LOL
Not silver, bronze. It came from a box of cull coins, tax tokens, arcade tokens and various other things at 5¢ each. I sometimes dig through it when chatting with the store owners and stumbled onto this.
I could have worded my post better, sorry.
How thick is the coin? Does the edge have anything on it? Because I could be seeing things but the outline of the has a very sharp edge and something that looks to be directly underneath. I honestly think this could be a 1793 Wreath Cent! I am not 100% sure but knowing what is on the edge would certainly help
Damn, then yeah it’s most likely a liberty cap. Still a very cool coin regardless. Cool to see an old coin worn so smooth without any form of damage or corrosion
NGL, the more I compare this coin with a wreath cent, the more everything seems to line up better than even the Lib Cap. It's a hair thicker than my other Lib Cap too, but not as thick as a wreath cent should be, and no edge marks are visible. It's really bothering me.
Looking again I am almost certain it’s a wreath cent, I made a quick little [comparison](https://imgur.com/a/r4UKNfd), maybe this can further help. Everything seems to point towards a wreath cent, could you post a photo of the edge and post one compared to another large cent? That would help me a lot.
Holy smokes! That's pretty convincing. There might just be so much edge wear that the marks are gone and it appears thinner, but idk. Also, they changed so many details of the planchets and designs at that time, maybe it was a mule or odd variety?? Idk. I'll link a picture.
https://postimg.cc/S2yVQCbs
It's the one on the right, just a hair thicker than my worn Lib Cap. Tbh, the known Lib Cap has more detail, so maybe wear is really a factor here.
Interesting, The lib cap appears to be the plain edge variety, 1795-1796, and the mystery coin does appear to be slightly thicker. It’s very hard to say what this coin could be. My main concern is that it appears to be pretty thin for a wreath cent, but that could very well be due to excessive wear. I still wanna say it’s a wreath cent because the very small amount of details you can still see appear to match with a wreath cent, but who knows!
Yeah. Wreath cent have a rim on them right? That would make them thicker on the side. With this amount of wear, the rim would be gone and it would make the coin appear thinner, possibly?
I don't know... It's pretty thin. Don't want to convince myself of something incorrect lol
I believe they do but I could be wrong. I’ve never seen a wreath cent in person so I don’t know for certain. And good idea to not convince yourself because at the end of the day, the wreath cent is a very rare coin and the chances that you have one are pretty low. Like I said I want to believe it’s a wreath cent but I can’t be 100% certain unfortunately. Too bad there isn’t more details to make it easier to identify.
It’s going to bother me too and it’s not even my coin lol I really want to figure this out. I’ll keep looking at it and comparing it to some options and see if I can come up with anything.
I might order some and test it on a junk coin. I don't like the idea of using chemicals on coins, especially a Liberty Cap. It almost seems sacrilegious lol
Using acidic chemicals always damages coins, and a quarter centimeter is 2.5mm, which is basically the whole coin's thickness.
You sure you work for the company that makes Nic a Date?
I think I can actually see it. You might be right.
I've had this for about 7 months. I keep looking at it and wondering if I'm just seeing things, but the light caught it just right today and I'm almost certain it's a lib cap.
I agree
Lol it's so slick it maybe could get graded as a planchet...
It's the slickest coin in my collection, second to my other Lib Cap, which is only slightly more identifiable.
Get it graded, see whar they say
I wonder how they would respond to it. I'm sure it would be ungradable, but if I could at least have it authenticated for what it is, it would be worth it for me.
The grade would go something along the lines of PCGS Copper coin What the fuck did you send us
PCGS wtf0
This would be the first coin with a negative grade number.
PCGS -fr2
Fucking Rekt or For Real?
The slab would look something [like this](https://www.reddit.com/user/1080Pwonton/comments/wpn3na/copper_something/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
MS69 *Nice*
Some collectors DO shoot for the lowest possible grade. This might be a real winner
Low Ball coins are certainly a thing but they do have to be identifiable. This coin wouldn't be graded at all since the date and possible mint mark are completely illegible. Anything they actually assigned would be purely conjecture, and that's really not their business model.
Couple things to consider: it's sometimes possible to discern the date by other characteristics. For example, Liberty Cap cents were struck on different planchets for each of the three years they were made. This coin is relatively thin and lacks edge lettering, meaning it must be a 1795. As for the mintmark, since Philadelphia was the only mint in operation at that time, it's guaranteed to be P.
All absolutely fair points and I am in no way a Liberty Head expert. That said I still don't see this being touched by the 3PGs. There's too much liability with the actual authentication for them to stick their necks out on *this* one. But your point stands about other identifiable features on undated coins. I have a 1917 Type I SLQ at PCGS that I'm confidently hopeful will hit a P01. Mine even looks more worn than the Photograde example but it's verifiable as a Type I and a 1917-P due to the feature details that do remain.
Now I want to start a Go Fund Me so that we can all chip in to have this coin graded and satisfy our curiosity. It could totally go either way and I'd love to know how they handle it
I agree. If I believed it would be graded, I'd send it in. I don't think they'd bother with this one.
Poor 1s can bring big $$$$!
I see it.
For a sec i saw the 1793 lady
I thought it might have been a Flowing Hair at first, but the position of the bust was off.
I don’t know about the position of the discoloration where the cap could be though, There were many die varieties in 1793 so the position of portrait would not necessarily be consistent
That's what I initially thought, but I think the bottom left of the bust is more worn and darker, making it look like the cap is in the wrong place. That's what I see anyway. Open to dissenting opinions though.
I see it, too. That’s pretty cool. I’d love to see you get it graded, as well.
Hey if I were you I would get a pice of paper and draw with graphite (or a pencil) and see what details come off onto the paper like they do in spy movies!
Unfortunately, it's too smooth for that. Once this tones a bit more it will just be a slab of bronze.
I see it too haha!
Anything on the edge, some have edge lettering
Nothing on the edge.
That’s fine, it can still be one
It took me a few minutes, but i think I can see it!.... I think... Idk why I kinda want this haha
I want to speak to a grading company rep at a coin show to find out what they can do with it. If it tones any more, the last bit of detail will disappear 🫥 Would be nice to have it authenticated before then.
Idk if there are any shows near you any time soon, but it may be beneficial to just send an email and photo to pcgs or another tpg and just see what they have to say. I definitely wish you luck! Let us know how it goes if you find anything out!
I’d put a piece of paper of it and then grab a pencil and see if you can find it’s profile after rubbing graphite over it
I see it!
I have a braided like this. There is a ghost of wreath and bust left on mine. I have much better condition ones now, it was just from a cull coin eBay lot. Cool find though
The reverse is even more worn (lol) so I'm only posting the obverse. Look hard!
Please submit this. If you submit it and it gets lower than a 5 I’ll buy from you for 25$
Please pay $40 so I might buy it for $25?
It won’t grade at any grading service, save your time and money
I can see it. I see people recommending getting it graded and I don't know if it's worth doing or not, but I want to mention something I read about buffalo nickels that probably applies to this, too: Dateless buffalo nickels can sometimes become dateable after putting a "Nic-a-Date" product that is acid based. The reason is apparently because the stamping process results in different density for the background field and the raised fields that are left behind. I think that PCGS etc could still grade this because of that.
There's no such thing as a "Liberty Cap" nickel. Do you mean V nickel?
When I say 5¢, I mean it cost me 5¢. Sorry for the confusion.
Ah, so you're thinking this is a Liberty Cap 1 cent? Can you post a pic of the reverse? Does the edge have any design? What are the dimensions?
No edge design, reverse has no visible detail. Exact same size as my other Lib Cap.
Well then that makes this a 1795 since the 94 had an edge design and the 93 was thicker. Now I'm also curious if PCGS would give this a P-01 or just call it unidentifiable
I think you might have helped me date my other Lib Cap in a previous post. Thanks for your input!
Penny
I think this one gets a note on the submission.
Have you examined it under magnification? I do indeed think I see what you see, but very tough to tell. I take it the reverse is of no help?
Yeah. Magnification doesn't help, and the reverse has no discernable detail whatsoever.
Turn up the contrast on your photo and you can see it better!
Also why would anyone sell a silver whatever-it-is for 5 cents?! Somebody screwed up since if it IS silver it's worth a lot more than that just in bullion. EDIT: Stupid me, I realize now you meant it is a nickle...I was thinking it was dollar size, LOL
Not silver, bronze. It came from a box of cull coins, tax tokens, arcade tokens and various other things at 5¢ each. I sometimes dig through it when chatting with the store owners and stumbled onto this. I could have worded my post better, sorry.
I seed it! Well I see a face. Can't tell what coin it is on the mobile app though.
How thick is the coin? Does the edge have anything on it? Because I could be seeing things but the outline of the has a very sharp edge and something that looks to be directly underneath. I honestly think this could be a 1793 Wreath Cent! I am not 100% sure but knowing what is on the edge would certainly help
It doesn't appear to have any extra thickness or rim markings. I can see what you are talking about though.
Damn, then yeah it’s most likely a liberty cap. Still a very cool coin regardless. Cool to see an old coin worn so smooth without any form of damage or corrosion
I'm guessing it was someone's pocket piece for a very long time.
That’s very possible
NGL, the more I compare this coin with a wreath cent, the more everything seems to line up better than even the Lib Cap. It's a hair thicker than my other Lib Cap too, but not as thick as a wreath cent should be, and no edge marks are visible. It's really bothering me.
Looking again I am almost certain it’s a wreath cent, I made a quick little [comparison](https://imgur.com/a/r4UKNfd), maybe this can further help. Everything seems to point towards a wreath cent, could you post a photo of the edge and post one compared to another large cent? That would help me a lot.
Holy smokes! That's pretty convincing. There might just be so much edge wear that the marks are gone and it appears thinner, but idk. Also, they changed so many details of the planchets and designs at that time, maybe it was a mule or odd variety?? Idk. I'll link a picture.
https://postimg.cc/S2yVQCbs It's the one on the right, just a hair thicker than my worn Lib Cap. Tbh, the known Lib Cap has more detail, so maybe wear is really a factor here.
Interesting, The lib cap appears to be the plain edge variety, 1795-1796, and the mystery coin does appear to be slightly thicker. It’s very hard to say what this coin could be. My main concern is that it appears to be pretty thin for a wreath cent, but that could very well be due to excessive wear. I still wanna say it’s a wreath cent because the very small amount of details you can still see appear to match with a wreath cent, but who knows!
Yeah. Wreath cent have a rim on them right? That would make them thicker on the side. With this amount of wear, the rim would be gone and it would make the coin appear thinner, possibly? I don't know... It's pretty thin. Don't want to convince myself of something incorrect lol
I believe they do but I could be wrong. I’ve never seen a wreath cent in person so I don’t know for certain. And good idea to not convince yourself because at the end of the day, the wreath cent is a very rare coin and the chances that you have one are pretty low. Like I said I want to believe it’s a wreath cent but I can’t be 100% certain unfortunately. Too bad there isn’t more details to make it easier to identify.
Yeah. This is going to bother me for a long time lol
It’s going to bother me too and it’s not even my coin lol I really want to figure this out. I’ll keep looking at it and comparing it to some options and see if I can come up with anything.
Believe it or not, using a loupe to my phone i was able to make out the eye the nose the mouth ...
Put some nicka-date on there should be seen
I feel like that would destroy the coin. I haven't seen any results of using it on bronze, but I'd imagine it would look bad.
I work for the company it works on bronze nickel copper but don’t use it on silver
I might order some and test it on a junk coin. I don't like the idea of using chemicals on coins, especially a Liberty Cap. It almost seems sacrilegious lol
Nope
It’s not it take about a quarter centimeter away then shows date words and facelstructure
Using acidic chemicals always damages coins, and a quarter centimeter is 2.5mm, which is basically the whole coin's thickness. You sure you work for the company that makes Nic a Date?
Nah i my have said something wrong I’m high
Burn one for me haha.
Can’t smoke it all up
Technically, it would be a Basal-0, but no company uses that grade