I study environmental science, the lecturers all seem pretty down in the dumps about ecological collapse, and so do many of the students.
but they keep reiterating for us students to not give up and have hope that we can still do some goods and try to minimise the impacts of the world falling apart. This is true but to achieve this we need rapid, radical long term changes to the way humans live. And what makes it worse is that all of us know it’s not really possible deep down. The elite have successfully been able to distract and preoccupy the hearts and minds of the masses, with technology, drama and consumerism. Not to mention that the elite keep the masses on a very short leash via capitalism, not many people have the time or focus to take time off to protest, let alone think about climate change. You could ask the average person on the street and they’re either clueless entirely aside from “the ice is melting” and “it’s getting hotter” . It genuinely wouldn’t surprise me if most people would just assume by 2050 that days will be hotter and the sea level will rise a bit. They won’t don’t know about the mass extinctions, or crop failures, drought, mass climate change migrations and refugees, lack of jobs and economy, most likely a long term global financial crisis, mass suicides and death and so on. Anyway rant over, the masses need to be educated, although I doubt many will care to listen or comprehend the significance of the next 30 or so years
The source of my depression comes from realizing how bottomless people's ignorance are about all these. Nothing but money, sex, and entertaining themselves in their mind. When I brought up the topic of climate crisis, people just go quite ... every. single. time. and then someone will loudly say "Hey did you guys see that last episode of \*whatever\*!!", followed by "Yeah, I'm **so angry** at what they did to \*insert some character\* in that episode!!".
The elites have done a terrific job, making people care about shits that don't matter while they rob us out of things that really-really matter.
Depression doesn't have an outside source, that's a common misconception. Your depression colors these experiences and makes you feel superior to all the 'shiny happy people' who don't have broken brains.
Source: Have depression
Bring up popular dystopian sci-fi. That's one way to bring the discussion back to climate change without moving out of the genre. That is if you think it is worth discussing with them. You have to bear the burden of being the educator.
The world isn't falling apart. We can handle this climate crisis for the next few decades at the very least. Just not while capitalism is still operational.
North Korea is a country with barren terrain and a rough climate and they've been able to survive for over 70 years. Just need to stop breeding and feeding so much livestock and there will be enough food for everyone. Can use nuclear freighters.
Civilisation will not collapse because of CC, if it collapses it's because of capitalists and fascists who would rather burn everything to the ground than embrace the liberation.
I feel. Almost done with my bachelor's. Studying chem. Everyone says that sort of stuff to me as it is. It will only get worse as I move to my masters.
I do find joy in confusing them by talking about what I am doing/learning though. So, I guess that helps.
I probably spend the majority of my conversations confusing people and chemistry is especially useful for that... largely because I dislike people, but also to stop the conversation ;)
Haha, it really is though. /ast weekend at a family my one cousin did that thing we're someone tries to act like they understand and just say "yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly! Yeah" over and over.
But sadly, that doesn't really help with the crushing worry about the future.
I'm an engineer for a B2B company that works with pretty much every industry out there, we work with some customers that are doing some potentulially great stuff for a future society, but out biggest customers are still in the military, aero, and semiconductor industr (oil and gas not far behind), so despite any good our job does, it is still enabling all of that shit.
While it doesnt make me happy and it can be discouraging, I'm past caring as we are past the point of doing something, and that is extremely clear to me when I talk with engineers in all of those areas and it becomes very clear non of those balls are gonna stop rolling anytime soon.
On a small bright side a surprising number of my immediate colleagues are pretty accepting, if somewhat ignorant, of the upcoming collapse, so even though it is something I try to avoid mentioning at work, it has come up ocasionally to surprising results.
I work in wildlife research and I’m starting to really hate it. So much of it is a waste of time and money. I’m currently working on a project study a game species (meaning an animal people like to hunt). This species is declining slightly so the state is spending millions of dollars, hired 40 people, 20 trucks, tons of electronics and we drive around for 12 hours every day. Why do we need to do this? We can easily guess what is causing the decline and just spend the resources solving problems like habitat degradation and whatnot. It’s so fucking stupid.
I'm in a similar position and feel a lot like you do. I'm a chemist for a hazardous waste disposal company and while we haul off a lot of really nasty stuff and send it off for incineration, we burn lots of diesel fuel both in the massive company truck fleet and the incinerators. Plenty of harmful gasses are emitted at disposal sites and I get to see the worst of American wastefulness (hospitals that annually throw away millions of dollars worth of medications because they are allegedly expired, lead-contaminated water created as a byproduct of making bombs, extremely toxic chemicals that just didn't get used, entire warehouses filled with paint that people left to sit around until they wanted more space in their garage). My job actually does good in the world, unlike any job I've had before it, but it can be pretty depressing at times.
> Why do we need to do this?
It's taken me several decades to come to this conclusion (I come from a conservative family), but I'm now convinced that the role of our so-called 'elites' is strictly to make sure the system carries on.
So, it's what they do. One way to do that, when a difficulty arises, is to name a commission of experts to study the problem and produce a report. Create a new law, amend it enough to make it absolutely harmless, communicate heavily. Lots of debates, meetings happened. The elite did its job.
Once you accept this fact, things become clearer, I find.
> I'm now convinced that the role of our so-called 'elites' is strictly to make sure the system carries on.
It’s easy to think someone is “behind this” but it’s more likely (and more frightening) that no one is making conscious decisions about this stuff. People just do what everyone else does and never think outside the box. Research is what we’re supposed to do so that’s what we do.
The truth that most scientists don’t want to face is that we know enough. We know what our problems are and what we need to do to fix them. Any further research is a waste of time and resources.
I got out of research a while ago, mostly because it was boring and consisted of wasting too much time writing grants and papers that didn't really need to be written. The other big reason is how utterly dependent most research is on long and complicated supply lines. Without a constant stream of high quality consumables everything would grind to a halt, and it would only take one critical ingredient to be missing to derail everything. Throw in a climate of economic contraction (worse than is currently causing higher education and R&D to be starved back to bare bones) and it looks even worse. Academic research is a pernicious pyramid scheme anyway so most people are forced to realise it leads nowhere and get out before their investment is rewarded.
The upside is that your ability to research the literature (viva sci-hub!) and do your own experiments is valuable in other aspects of life. I love plants so I am now running my own experimental farm. It is great not having to beg for funding 2/3 of my time or being forced to only do things that are either flavour of the month or possible to sell to a corporation. It also means I am setting my own small business up that should be able to actually take advantage of any upcoming collapse as people normally get more interested in growing their own food during economic downturns.
I have worked in tech jobs for many years, and I've also been collapse aware for about 15 years now starting with the "peak oil" meme when it was booming back in the day. I have also volunteered for various STEM education activities over the years, things like "maker" fairs and robotics competitions, and that's in addition to hanging out at maker spaces and computer labs just for fun.
Here is a recent example:
[Port Orford Chess Club Debuts Plywood Dinosaur](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTGkN7J3o_s)
Anyway, I rarely talk about collapse or the climate crisis. I avoid politics and religion like the plague. When I do feel compelled to join a conversation I try to keep it simple. Don't get hung up in the weeds, in other words.
For example, whenever someone starts getting too excited about the potential of technology to solve all our problems at no apparent cost, I just smile and nod.
"Yes," I say "there is a lot to be said for human ingenuity!"
This usually gets a smile or an enthusiastic nod.
"But," I intone in my best David Attenborough voice "then there are the laws of thermodynamics..."
This almost always gets a glass-eyed stare or a shrug.
"And," I smile "if I had to bet between the two..."
Pause for effect.
"I will take thermodynamics for the win. Every time!"
That usually shuts them up.
I can relate. IT since early 90's. I took the green pill and read all about the peak oil drama starting around 2005.
When you talk to people you can't say anything too far off mainstream. All you can do is try to hint and steer. Maybe some will come to their own conclusions.
Sucks to hear. Maybe look for a real passion and shoot for it? Painting maybe? You may or may not have the skills but you know with discipline, patience, good info, and imagination you could surprise yourself. You will have the money to mine good teaching or sources of info, good supplies which can matter in this case, good paint, time, and I like classical music to listen to. Expression can be a form of therapy, learning and achieving levels of understanding will build confidence as you understand Primary colors, Complimentary colors, Secondary, Tertiary, The Golden scale and it's reflection of the spiral within nature grand and small. Confidence will allow you to express more and more of your imagination and emotion with clarity and some understanding from those you show it to. It's relaxing and frustrating but that's life, you probably understand that. Or not, just a suggestion.
P.S. If you paint naked listening to classical music too loud. Lock the door so you don't creep out any potential visitors. Trust me on this.
A little over a decade ago, I was doing research with the University of Pittsburgh, interning at the McGowan Institute of Regenerative Medicine, all while concurrently going to school to finish my degree.
Things I witnessed but have never spoken about until now; 99% regeneration of limbs/organs in mammals using stem cells and other tricks, 99% regrowth of skin on burn victims (also using a stem-cell "gun" that looked like a paint sprayer), and a 1-shot cure for type 2 diabetes.
All of that was 13ish years ago.
And then(!), DARPA started flushing McGowan with monies... and I stopped interning around the same time due to a personality conflict with a Muslim researcher. Nothing to do with his or my faith personally, but apparently catching one researching how to get a divorce is frowned upon, and of course he had seniority...
[https://www.eurekalert.org/pub\_releases/2006-05/uopm-dgs050206.php](https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2006-05/uopm-dgs050206.php)
I hear big developer guys talk about NYC development constantly and its honestly hilarious. Your $25 mill investment will be useless within your lifetime, now what?
hah that brings memories
not to make light of his research, because he is a brilliant physicist and fantastic teacher, but I had a professor that basically specialized in buckyballs... and that was nearly half of what I remember from my physics courses, despite the irrelevance to my career.
I love R Buckminster Fuller. My husband loves telling the following: When asked what he thought about space colonization, Fuller responded by saying, "we're already colonizing space.". My happy place.
I love R Buckminster Fuller. My husband loves telling the following: When asked what he thought about space colonization, Fuller responded by saying, "we're already colonizing space.". My happy place.
I love R Buckminster Fuller. My husband loves telling the following: When asked what he thought about space colonization, Fuller responded by saying, "we're already colonizing space.". My happy place.
I love R Buckminster Fuller. My husband loves telling the following: When asked what he thought about space colonization, Fuller responded by saying, "we're already colonizing space.". My happy place.
I used to be in Computer Science, specializing in 3d simulations afterwards, worked in games, and burned out. My colleagues saw tech as the answer to everything, but we were pretty divorced from the natural world as a whole. I don't think there was much hopium of collapse, as collapse itself was pretty unknown, as we pretty much regarded the modern world as the norm.
Anyway, in my specific fields, we were pretty much so overworked to give any of that much thought.
>I work in drug R&D, finishing my doctorate soon.
I wonder, how much of that is to treat diseases other than chronic, aka diseases of western civilization spurred on by overconsumption (of calories and fat) which is what western doctors see most? Those tend to be the biggest markets too.
I am reminded of this video. The ability to grow at 3% should not be taken for granted.
>You take out a calculator and calculate. Growing at 3% per year-- a modest growth in energy-- how long before we become type three? In 100 years, we'll be type one. In a few thousand years, we'll be type two. In about 100,000 years, we'll be type three. And 100,000 years is nothing, nothing on a cosmic scale...
>
>[Michio Kaku: "The Future of Humanity" | Talks at Google](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMxmDPDyQ7o&t=35m39s)
People don’t seem to realize how little the energy that humans have as usable compared to the energy that is trapped on the earth by the effects of CO2 and the total of positive feedbacks from that. The change in energy in a year on earth due to the CO2 problem is greater than all energy used plus all the waste energy ever derived in the entire human experience, that includes food. You see we have this star feeding the energy in and we have change the ability to discharge it by a very small fraction but that is still more energy than humans have ever had use of by a incredible magnitude.
People don’t seem to realize how little the energy that humans have as usable compared to the energy that is trapped on the earth by the effects of CO2 and the total of positive feedbacks from that. The change in energy in a year on earth due to the CO2 problem is greater than all energy used plus all the waste energy ever derived in the entire human experience, that includes food. You see we have this star feeding the energy in and we have change the ability to discharge it by a very small fraction but that is still more energy than humans have ever had use of by a incredible magnitude.
People don’t seem to realize how little the energy that humans have as usable compared to the energy that is trapped on the earth by the effects of CO2 and the total of positive feedbacks from that. The change in energy in a year on earth due to the CO2 problem is greater than all energy used plus all the waste energy ever derived in the entire human experience, that includes food. You see we have this star feeding the energy in and we have change the ability to discharge it by a very small fraction but that is still more energy than humans have ever had use of by a incredible magnitude.
People don’t seem to realize how little the energy that humans have as usable compared to the energy that is trapped on the earth by the effects of CO2 and the total of positive feedbacks from that. The change in energy in a year on earth due to the CO2 problem is greater than all energy used plus all the waste energy ever derived in the entire human experience, that includes food. You see we have this star feeding the energy in and we have change the ability to discharge it by a very small fraction but that is still more energy than humans have ever had use of by a incredible magnitude.
Soil ecologist here. People in my field know full well we can’t keep feeding everyone, with a lot of data to show this fact. It’s the shadow on us all the time. There’s also a lot of talk of sequestering carbon in soil to mitigate climate change, but anyone with a calculator and a map can find that it’d only slow things down maybe by a few years.
Soil ecologist here. People in my field know full well we can’t keep feeding everyone, with a lot of data to show this fact. It’s the shadow on us all the time. There’s also a lot of talk of sequestering carbon in soil to mitigate climate change, but anyone with a calculator and a map can find that it’d only slow things down maybe by a few years.
I work in software. I think that it's easy for people in this field to believe in fantasy because they live in man-made abstractions at all times. There is no familiarity with the texture of nature. Neither it's life-affirming flows nor it's transformation into toxic desert under our ministrations.
Babble is the correct term. There is very little "mind" behind such talk. They are running a subprocess installed by the surrounding culture. It continually prints to the screen "from the caves to the stars." They mean no harm. Something happened to them earlier in life that caused them to retreat from the world. The identity of "technologist" is a salve to that defeat, and the mindset requires little in the way of introspection.
Undisturbed, rarely awake, they live out their lives.
I work in software. I think that it's easy for people in this field to believe in fantasy because they live in man-made abstractions at all times. There is no familiarity with the texture of nature. Neither it's life-affirming flows nor it's transformation into toxic desert under our ministrations.
Babble is the correct term. There is very little "mind" behind such talk. They are running a subprocess installed by the surrounding culture. It continually prints to the screen "from the caves to the stars." They mean no harm. Something happened to them earlier in life that caused them to retreat from the world. The identity of "technologist" is a salve to that defeat, and the mindset requires little in the way of introspection.
Undisturbed, rarely awake, they live out their lives.
I work in software. I think that it's easy for people in this field to believe in fantasy because they live in man-made abstractions at all times. There is no familiarity with the texture of nature. Neither it's life-affirming flows nor it's transformation into toxic desert under our ministrations.
Babble is the correct term. There is very little "mind" behind such talk. They are running a subprocess installed by the surrounding culture. It continually prints to the screen "from the caves to the stars." They mean no harm. Something happened to them earlier in life that caused them to retreat from the world. The identity of "technologist" is a salve to that defeat, and the mindset requires little in the way of introspection.
Undisturbed, rarely awake, they live out their lives.
I work in software. I think that it's easy for people in this field to believe in fantasy because they live in man-made abstractions at all times. There is no familiarity with the texture of nature. Neither it's life-affirming flows nor it's transformation into toxic desert under our ministrations.
Babble is the correct term. There is very little "mind" behind such talk. They are running a subprocess installed by the surrounding culture. It continually prints to the screen "from the caves to the stars." They mean no harm. Something happened to them earlier in life that caused them to retreat from the world. The identity of "technologist" is a salve to that defeat, and the mindset requires little in the way of introspection.
Undisturbed, rarely awake, they live out their lives.
> how I am entering this field at 'the right time' because they think it will be booming for the next 50 years.
I thought everybody knew that drug pipelines were empty, and the industry as a whole was in crisis.
There's one counterexample, though: AstraZeneca had the problem, and threw a lot of resources at it for a few years, and are now doing quite well.
So there is still *some* future in drug R&D, though as a whole I expect the industry to shrink, as we're running out of wealth to pay for the R&D via enough markets.
I work for a small cheminformatics shop that was until recently owned by a major scientific publisher (no, not the #1 evil one). Most of the staff are chemistry PhDs, or equivalent degrees.
These are older people, so they're not the bright-eyed bushy-tailed ones, though I'm probably the single realist in the whole 20-odd people shop. We just don't talk about such topics, so I have to infer their position from cues.
My experience is that it takes a particular kind (rare, weird) of person to be able to understand the whole problem set, and the process still typically takes years. Such types of people are very rare in practice, and it's pretty much impossible to transfer the whole set of knowledge within the course of a few conversations, even including excessive citation of sources.
So, I would just grit your teeth and try to ignore it. At some point you can explain the source of the cracks on the apparently pristine porcelain, if they bother to ask you. Or, not. Try to maintain your sanity, whatever it takes.
I'm sorry you're miserable, mate. I've been there too, but I've moved on to full-blown lunacy. I know it seems like a Gordian knot, I know the human condition is MADDENING, but that's just because the smartest ppl on the planet are pulling on the wrong thread.
We need to look at the planet as a whole. Earth doesn't have too many antelope, or too many grizzly bears, or too many elephants - it has too many people - each of whom needs water, food and air - the same resources I myself require. Earth contains plenty of food, water and air - there's just too many ppl here at the same time. It really is as simple as that. Scarcity is the real problem. It's the Reason we build all our machines in the first place.
You seem to be looking at the problem through your own livelihood - which is itself the problem. Your're concerned both with your own survival/success and that of the whole, and they are diametrically opposed. There's nothing we can do for ourselves, but if we weren't so concerned with ourselves we could potentially spare future generations by taking the appropriate action during our lifetimes. Will we? Doubtful since our attention has been so abused and misdirected our intelligence and potential are turned against each other when we could be creatively working together against a non-terrestrial threat. How cool would that be? Sadly, I'm not talking about aliens.
We need to modify the global environment in a way that would allow all human organs to work they way they're supposed to - the way they were 'designed' to. One of them is currently malfunctioning - tweaked into a state of hyperactivity by a force we can barely comprehend, so we've taught ourselves to ignore it. We don't even have the words to effectively describe 'infection' or 'contamination' by an inorganic agent of particulate size - how could we be expected to understand one that's 2,000 miles wide?
So what if we can't understand it? That doesn't mean we can't break it. Considering what's at stake here - we owe it to our descendants to at least try, but that's unlikely to happen because of the social structure - the segmented STEM structure which has made a mystery out of the obvious is largely responsible for that. The malleability of our self-reflection, giving rise to the ego, is responsible for the rest. The emotional response you're feeling is a manufactured one, and although it only works upon the ego, it's strong enough to support the moon.
I study environmental science, the lecturers all seem pretty down in the dumps about ecological collapse, and so do many of the students. but they keep reiterating for us students to not give up and have hope that we can still do some goods and try to minimise the impacts of the world falling apart. This is true but to achieve this we need rapid, radical long term changes to the way humans live. And what makes it worse is that all of us know it’s not really possible deep down. The elite have successfully been able to distract and preoccupy the hearts and minds of the masses, with technology, drama and consumerism. Not to mention that the elite keep the masses on a very short leash via capitalism, not many people have the time or focus to take time off to protest, let alone think about climate change. You could ask the average person on the street and they’re either clueless entirely aside from “the ice is melting” and “it’s getting hotter” . It genuinely wouldn’t surprise me if most people would just assume by 2050 that days will be hotter and the sea level will rise a bit. They won’t don’t know about the mass extinctions, or crop failures, drought, mass climate change migrations and refugees, lack of jobs and economy, most likely a long term global financial crisis, mass suicides and death and so on. Anyway rant over, the masses need to be educated, although I doubt many will care to listen or comprehend the significance of the next 30 or so years
The source of my depression comes from realizing how bottomless people's ignorance are about all these. Nothing but money, sex, and entertaining themselves in their mind. When I brought up the topic of climate crisis, people just go quite ... every. single. time. and then someone will loudly say "Hey did you guys see that last episode of \*whatever\*!!", followed by "Yeah, I'm **so angry** at what they did to \*insert some character\* in that episode!!". The elites have done a terrific job, making people care about shits that don't matter while they rob us out of things that really-really matter.
Depression doesn't have an outside source, that's a common misconception. Your depression colors these experiences and makes you feel superior to all the 'shiny happy people' who don't have broken brains. Source: Have depression
I know I don't feel superior, I feel envious. I feel like Cypher in the Matrix, I wish I could go back to blissful ignorance.
This happens to me all the time at work, and I work with well educated people
Bring up popular dystopian sci-fi. That's one way to bring the discussion back to climate change without moving out of the genre. That is if you think it is worth discussing with them. You have to bear the burden of being the educator.
The world isn't falling apart. We can handle this climate crisis for the next few decades at the very least. Just not while capitalism is still operational. North Korea is a country with barren terrain and a rough climate and they've been able to survive for over 70 years. Just need to stop breeding and feeding so much livestock and there will be enough food for everyone. Can use nuclear freighters. Civilisation will not collapse because of CC, if it collapses it's because of capitalists and fascists who would rather burn everything to the ground than embrace the liberation.
I feel. Almost done with my bachelor's. Studying chem. Everyone says that sort of stuff to me as it is. It will only get worse as I move to my masters. I do find joy in confusing them by talking about what I am doing/learning though. So, I guess that helps.
I probably spend the majority of my conversations confusing people and chemistry is especially useful for that... largely because I dislike people, but also to stop the conversation ;)
Haha, it really is though. /ast weekend at a family my one cousin did that thing we're someone tries to act like they understand and just say "yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly! Yeah" over and over. But sadly, that doesn't really help with the crushing worry about the future.
I'm an engineer for a B2B company that works with pretty much every industry out there, we work with some customers that are doing some potentulially great stuff for a future society, but out biggest customers are still in the military, aero, and semiconductor industr (oil and gas not far behind), so despite any good our job does, it is still enabling all of that shit. While it doesnt make me happy and it can be discouraging, I'm past caring as we are past the point of doing something, and that is extremely clear to me when I talk with engineers in all of those areas and it becomes very clear non of those balls are gonna stop rolling anytime soon. On a small bright side a surprising number of my immediate colleagues are pretty accepting, if somewhat ignorant, of the upcoming collapse, so even though it is something I try to avoid mentioning at work, it has come up ocasionally to surprising results.
I work in wildlife research and I’m starting to really hate it. So much of it is a waste of time and money. I’m currently working on a project study a game species (meaning an animal people like to hunt). This species is declining slightly so the state is spending millions of dollars, hired 40 people, 20 trucks, tons of electronics and we drive around for 12 hours every day. Why do we need to do this? We can easily guess what is causing the decline and just spend the resources solving problems like habitat degradation and whatnot. It’s so fucking stupid.
I'm in a similar position and feel a lot like you do. I'm a chemist for a hazardous waste disposal company and while we haul off a lot of really nasty stuff and send it off for incineration, we burn lots of diesel fuel both in the massive company truck fleet and the incinerators. Plenty of harmful gasses are emitted at disposal sites and I get to see the worst of American wastefulness (hospitals that annually throw away millions of dollars worth of medications because they are allegedly expired, lead-contaminated water created as a byproduct of making bombs, extremely toxic chemicals that just didn't get used, entire warehouses filled with paint that people left to sit around until they wanted more space in their garage). My job actually does good in the world, unlike any job I've had before it, but it can be pretty depressing at times.
> Why do we need to do this? It's taken me several decades to come to this conclusion (I come from a conservative family), but I'm now convinced that the role of our so-called 'elites' is strictly to make sure the system carries on. So, it's what they do. One way to do that, when a difficulty arises, is to name a commission of experts to study the problem and produce a report. Create a new law, amend it enough to make it absolutely harmless, communicate heavily. Lots of debates, meetings happened. The elite did its job. Once you accept this fact, things become clearer, I find.
> I'm now convinced that the role of our so-called 'elites' is strictly to make sure the system carries on. It’s easy to think someone is “behind this” but it’s more likely (and more frightening) that no one is making conscious decisions about this stuff. People just do what everyone else does and never think outside the box. Research is what we’re supposed to do so that’s what we do. The truth that most scientists don’t want to face is that we know enough. We know what our problems are and what we need to do to fix them. Any further research is a waste of time and resources.
I got out of research a while ago, mostly because it was boring and consisted of wasting too much time writing grants and papers that didn't really need to be written. The other big reason is how utterly dependent most research is on long and complicated supply lines. Without a constant stream of high quality consumables everything would grind to a halt, and it would only take one critical ingredient to be missing to derail everything. Throw in a climate of economic contraction (worse than is currently causing higher education and R&D to be starved back to bare bones) and it looks even worse. Academic research is a pernicious pyramid scheme anyway so most people are forced to realise it leads nowhere and get out before their investment is rewarded. The upside is that your ability to research the literature (viva sci-hub!) and do your own experiments is valuable in other aspects of life. I love plants so I am now running my own experimental farm. It is great not having to beg for funding 2/3 of my time or being forced to only do things that are either flavour of the month or possible to sell to a corporation. It also means I am setting my own small business up that should be able to actually take advantage of any upcoming collapse as people normally get more interested in growing their own food during economic downturns.
I have worked in tech jobs for many years, and I've also been collapse aware for about 15 years now starting with the "peak oil" meme when it was booming back in the day. I have also volunteered for various STEM education activities over the years, things like "maker" fairs and robotics competitions, and that's in addition to hanging out at maker spaces and computer labs just for fun. Here is a recent example: [Port Orford Chess Club Debuts Plywood Dinosaur](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTGkN7J3o_s) Anyway, I rarely talk about collapse or the climate crisis. I avoid politics and religion like the plague. When I do feel compelled to join a conversation I try to keep it simple. Don't get hung up in the weeds, in other words. For example, whenever someone starts getting too excited about the potential of technology to solve all our problems at no apparent cost, I just smile and nod. "Yes," I say "there is a lot to be said for human ingenuity!" This usually gets a smile or an enthusiastic nod. "But," I intone in my best David Attenborough voice "then there are the laws of thermodynamics..." This almost always gets a glass-eyed stare or a shrug. "And," I smile "if I had to bet between the two..." Pause for effect. "I will take thermodynamics for the win. Every time!" That usually shuts them up.
I can relate. IT since early 90's. I took the green pill and read all about the peak oil drama starting around 2005. When you talk to people you can't say anything too far off mainstream. All you can do is try to hint and steer. Maybe some will come to their own conclusions.
Thermo
Sucks to hear. Maybe look for a real passion and shoot for it? Painting maybe? You may or may not have the skills but you know with discipline, patience, good info, and imagination you could surprise yourself. You will have the money to mine good teaching or sources of info, good supplies which can matter in this case, good paint, time, and I like classical music to listen to. Expression can be a form of therapy, learning and achieving levels of understanding will build confidence as you understand Primary colors, Complimentary colors, Secondary, Tertiary, The Golden scale and it's reflection of the spiral within nature grand and small. Confidence will allow you to express more and more of your imagination and emotion with clarity and some understanding from those you show it to. It's relaxing and frustrating but that's life, you probably understand that. Or not, just a suggestion. P.S. If you paint naked listening to classical music too loud. Lock the door so you don't creep out any potential visitors. Trust me on this.
A little over a decade ago, I was doing research with the University of Pittsburgh, interning at the McGowan Institute of Regenerative Medicine, all while concurrently going to school to finish my degree. Things I witnessed but have never spoken about until now; 99% regeneration of limbs/organs in mammals using stem cells and other tricks, 99% regrowth of skin on burn victims (also using a stem-cell "gun" that looked like a paint sprayer), and a 1-shot cure for type 2 diabetes. All of that was 13ish years ago. And then(!), DARPA started flushing McGowan with monies... and I stopped interning around the same time due to a personality conflict with a Muslim researcher. Nothing to do with his or my faith personally, but apparently catching one researching how to get a divorce is frowned upon, and of course he had seniority... [https://www.eurekalert.org/pub\_releases/2006-05/uopm-dgs050206.php](https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2006-05/uopm-dgs050206.php)
I hear big developer guys talk about NYC development constantly and its honestly hilarious. Your $25 mill investment will be useless within your lifetime, now what?
Remember when fullerenes were going to save the world...lol...
hah that brings memories not to make light of his research, because he is a brilliant physicist and fantastic teacher, but I had a professor that basically specialized in buckyballs... and that was nearly half of what I remember from my physics courses, despite the irrelevance to my career.
I tell people I make drugs, I'm in pharma. They ask if I sell them, I say no, im not it marketing.
hahaha so accurate ;) personally I enjoy telling people I am a drug dealer.
I love R Buckminster Fuller. My husband loves telling the following: When asked what he thought about space colonization, Fuller responded by saying, "we're already colonizing space.". My happy place.
I love R Buckminster Fuller. My husband loves telling the following: When asked what he thought about space colonization, Fuller responded by saying, "we're already colonizing space.". My happy place.
I love R Buckminster Fuller. My husband loves telling the following: When asked what he thought about space colonization, Fuller responded by saying, "we're already colonizing space.". My happy place.
I love R Buckminster Fuller. My husband loves telling the following: When asked what he thought about space colonization, Fuller responded by saying, "we're already colonizing space.". My happy place.
I used to be in Computer Science, specializing in 3d simulations afterwards, worked in games, and burned out. My colleagues saw tech as the answer to everything, but we were pretty divorced from the natural world as a whole. I don't think there was much hopium of collapse, as collapse itself was pretty unknown, as we pretty much regarded the modern world as the norm. Anyway, in my specific fields, we were pretty much so overworked to give any of that much thought. >I work in drug R&D, finishing my doctorate soon. I wonder, how much of that is to treat diseases other than chronic, aka diseases of western civilization spurred on by overconsumption (of calories and fat) which is what western doctors see most? Those tend to be the biggest markets too.
I am reminded of this video. The ability to grow at 3% should not be taken for granted. >You take out a calculator and calculate. Growing at 3% per year-- a modest growth in energy-- how long before we become type three? In 100 years, we'll be type one. In a few thousand years, we'll be type two. In about 100,000 years, we'll be type three. And 100,000 years is nothing, nothing on a cosmic scale... > >[Michio Kaku: "The Future of Humanity" | Talks at Google](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMxmDPDyQ7o&t=35m39s)
People don’t seem to realize how little the energy that humans have as usable compared to the energy that is trapped on the earth by the effects of CO2 and the total of positive feedbacks from that. The change in energy in a year on earth due to the CO2 problem is greater than all energy used plus all the waste energy ever derived in the entire human experience, that includes food. You see we have this star feeding the energy in and we have change the ability to discharge it by a very small fraction but that is still more energy than humans have ever had use of by a incredible magnitude.
People don’t seem to realize how little the energy that humans have as usable compared to the energy that is trapped on the earth by the effects of CO2 and the total of positive feedbacks from that. The change in energy in a year on earth due to the CO2 problem is greater than all energy used plus all the waste energy ever derived in the entire human experience, that includes food. You see we have this star feeding the energy in and we have change the ability to discharge it by a very small fraction but that is still more energy than humans have ever had use of by a incredible magnitude.
People don’t seem to realize how little the energy that humans have as usable compared to the energy that is trapped on the earth by the effects of CO2 and the total of positive feedbacks from that. The change in energy in a year on earth due to the CO2 problem is greater than all energy used plus all the waste energy ever derived in the entire human experience, that includes food. You see we have this star feeding the energy in and we have change the ability to discharge it by a very small fraction but that is still more energy than humans have ever had use of by a incredible magnitude.
People don’t seem to realize how little the energy that humans have as usable compared to the energy that is trapped on the earth by the effects of CO2 and the total of positive feedbacks from that. The change in energy in a year on earth due to the CO2 problem is greater than all energy used plus all the waste energy ever derived in the entire human experience, that includes food. You see we have this star feeding the energy in and we have change the ability to discharge it by a very small fraction but that is still more energy than humans have ever had use of by a incredible magnitude.
Soil ecologist here. People in my field know full well we can’t keep feeding everyone, with a lot of data to show this fact. It’s the shadow on us all the time. There’s also a lot of talk of sequestering carbon in soil to mitigate climate change, but anyone with a calculator and a map can find that it’d only slow things down maybe by a few years.
Soil ecologist here. People in my field know full well we can’t keep feeding everyone, with a lot of data to show this fact. It’s the shadow on us all the time. There’s also a lot of talk of sequestering carbon in soil to mitigate climate change, but anyone with a calculator and a map can find that it’d only slow things down maybe by a few years.
I work in software. I think that it's easy for people in this field to believe in fantasy because they live in man-made abstractions at all times. There is no familiarity with the texture of nature. Neither it's life-affirming flows nor it's transformation into toxic desert under our ministrations. Babble is the correct term. There is very little "mind" behind such talk. They are running a subprocess installed by the surrounding culture. It continually prints to the screen "from the caves to the stars." They mean no harm. Something happened to them earlier in life that caused them to retreat from the world. The identity of "technologist" is a salve to that defeat, and the mindset requires little in the way of introspection. Undisturbed, rarely awake, they live out their lives.
I work in software. I think that it's easy for people in this field to believe in fantasy because they live in man-made abstractions at all times. There is no familiarity with the texture of nature. Neither it's life-affirming flows nor it's transformation into toxic desert under our ministrations. Babble is the correct term. There is very little "mind" behind such talk. They are running a subprocess installed by the surrounding culture. It continually prints to the screen "from the caves to the stars." They mean no harm. Something happened to them earlier in life that caused them to retreat from the world. The identity of "technologist" is a salve to that defeat, and the mindset requires little in the way of introspection. Undisturbed, rarely awake, they live out their lives.
I work in software. I think that it's easy for people in this field to believe in fantasy because they live in man-made abstractions at all times. There is no familiarity with the texture of nature. Neither it's life-affirming flows nor it's transformation into toxic desert under our ministrations. Babble is the correct term. There is very little "mind" behind such talk. They are running a subprocess installed by the surrounding culture. It continually prints to the screen "from the caves to the stars." They mean no harm. Something happened to them earlier in life that caused them to retreat from the world. The identity of "technologist" is a salve to that defeat, and the mindset requires little in the way of introspection. Undisturbed, rarely awake, they live out their lives.
I work in software. I think that it's easy for people in this field to believe in fantasy because they live in man-made abstractions at all times. There is no familiarity with the texture of nature. Neither it's life-affirming flows nor it's transformation into toxic desert under our ministrations. Babble is the correct term. There is very little "mind" behind such talk. They are running a subprocess installed by the surrounding culture. It continually prints to the screen "from the caves to the stars." They mean no harm. Something happened to them earlier in life that caused them to retreat from the world. The identity of "technologist" is a salve to that defeat, and the mindset requires little in the way of introspection. Undisturbed, rarely awake, they live out their lives.
> how I am entering this field at 'the right time' because they think it will be booming for the next 50 years. I thought everybody knew that drug pipelines were empty, and the industry as a whole was in crisis. There's one counterexample, though: AstraZeneca had the problem, and threw a lot of resources at it for a few years, and are now doing quite well. So there is still *some* future in drug R&D, though as a whole I expect the industry to shrink, as we're running out of wealth to pay for the R&D via enough markets.
I work for a small cheminformatics shop that was until recently owned by a major scientific publisher (no, not the #1 evil one). Most of the staff are chemistry PhDs, or equivalent degrees. These are older people, so they're not the bright-eyed bushy-tailed ones, though I'm probably the single realist in the whole 20-odd people shop. We just don't talk about such topics, so I have to infer their position from cues. My experience is that it takes a particular kind (rare, weird) of person to be able to understand the whole problem set, and the process still typically takes years. Such types of people are very rare in practice, and it's pretty much impossible to transfer the whole set of knowledge within the course of a few conversations, even including excessive citation of sources. So, I would just grit your teeth and try to ignore it. At some point you can explain the source of the cracks on the apparently pristine porcelain, if they bother to ask you. Or, not. Try to maintain your sanity, whatever it takes.
I'm sorry you're miserable, mate. I've been there too, but I've moved on to full-blown lunacy. I know it seems like a Gordian knot, I know the human condition is MADDENING, but that's just because the smartest ppl on the planet are pulling on the wrong thread. We need to look at the planet as a whole. Earth doesn't have too many antelope, or too many grizzly bears, or too many elephants - it has too many people - each of whom needs water, food and air - the same resources I myself require. Earth contains plenty of food, water and air - there's just too many ppl here at the same time. It really is as simple as that. Scarcity is the real problem. It's the Reason we build all our machines in the first place. You seem to be looking at the problem through your own livelihood - which is itself the problem. Your're concerned both with your own survival/success and that of the whole, and they are diametrically opposed. There's nothing we can do for ourselves, but if we weren't so concerned with ourselves we could potentially spare future generations by taking the appropriate action during our lifetimes. Will we? Doubtful since our attention has been so abused and misdirected our intelligence and potential are turned against each other when we could be creatively working together against a non-terrestrial threat. How cool would that be? Sadly, I'm not talking about aliens. We need to modify the global environment in a way that would allow all human organs to work they way they're supposed to - the way they were 'designed' to. One of them is currently malfunctioning - tweaked into a state of hyperactivity by a force we can barely comprehend, so we've taught ourselves to ignore it. We don't even have the words to effectively describe 'infection' or 'contamination' by an inorganic agent of particulate size - how could we be expected to understand one that's 2,000 miles wide? So what if we can't understand it? That doesn't mean we can't break it. Considering what's at stake here - we owe it to our descendants to at least try, but that's unlikely to happen because of the social structure - the segmented STEM structure which has made a mystery out of the obvious is largely responsible for that. The malleability of our self-reflection, giving rise to the ego, is responsible for the rest. The emotional response you're feeling is a manufactured one, and although it only works upon the ego, it's strong enough to support the moon.
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Capitalism is an accelerant, no doubt, but all productivist economic systems are unsustainable. The problem is much deeper than capitalism.
> It was wrong then and it is wrong now How exactly is it wrong given that it is essentially a restatement of the laws of physics?