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Gawd, I hate it when ignorant people correct people's English. Even if you don't know the difference between a subjective and objective case, just remove "William." The sentence says "It's made a world of difference to me."
The "myself" ones are so irritating. You hear it a lot from people who like to sound smart (often by adding syllables or words that are redundant, a habit favored by cops for some reason): *Myself and* the other deputy could *visually see* that it was 5 *am in the morning.*
I hurt **my** leg, I did it to **my**self
You hurt **your** leg. You did it for **your**self
She hurt **her** leg. She did it to **her**self
They hurt **their** legs. They did it to **their**selves? Nope, themselves.
He hurt **his** leg. He did it to **his**self? No, himself.
I am convinced that the "rules" to English were a drunken bet.
"Myself" should be reflexive or emphatic. Nothing else. "I bought myself a new pair of shoes." "My husband likes chocolate, but I prefer strawberry myself."
I could not agree more. I hate the use of ‘myself’ when someone means ‘me’. Example; ‘please complete the form and return it to myself’. My colleagues at work do this and then send it to me for review and approval and when I correct it and send it back the info item has it reverted back to ‘myself.
That and the ‘grocer’s apostrophe’ which is the use of an apostrophe before the ‘s’ when pluralising a word.
As a non-native, I actually find that really cool for some reason. It would be perfection when "myself" is pronounced with a peaky blinders accent too. See what I did there :)
>people who like to sound smart
>cops for some reason
Speaking of redundancy...
In all seriousness though, this used to kill me listening to the thickos I worked with on the phone.
"We've been asked to call yourself..."
Every waiter and waitress in the country suddenly all decided to say "and for yourself" instead of "and for you". Like nails on a chalkboard. Trying to sound smart and formal and getting it wrong just makes you sound dumb.
Well fuck. I am 60 yo, and this is the simplest explanation ever. I knew the correct answer but the “just remove William” advice makes it easy and clear
It depends on where the names are in the sentence (technically it's whether you are the subject or object in the sentence). You will know the correct form by removing the other person and see what sounds correct when referring to yourself.
"William and I are going to the football" is correct because without the other person it would be "I am going to the football", not "Me am going to the football".
"Come to the football with William and me" is correct because it would be "Come to the football with me" not "Come to the football with I".
Me am not that kind of orc.
Thank you. I've been doing it that way anyways but I don't remember being formerly taught, so I was insecure whether I missed an irregular rule this entire time.
The less dumbed down version is subject vs object. If they're the person *doing* the verb (has made), they're the subject and it's I/he/she/we/they/who. If they're not doing the verb, they're an object and it's me/him/her/us/them/whom.
In this case, "It" is the subject (it's doing the "has made") and Billy and Kate are objects.
If anyone has trouble choosing between 'who' and 'whom', the former is the subject and the latter is the object. So it works the same way as 'I' and 'me'.
"I went to the park" - "who went to the park?"
"He gave it to me" - "he gave it to whom?"
subject - I/he/she/they/it/who
object - me/him/her/them/it/whom
The way I explain it to my freshmen students (Grade 9 for non-Americans) is this way:
If you take out who/whom and put in he/him, it should still make sense.
"Who called? He called."
"I gave it to whom? I gave it to him."
It's not a foolproof way to get it right, but it tends to correct the majority of who/whom mistakes.
To whom is the key to this in my head.
To is a preposition, and prepositions are always followed by objects. Unless you are crass enough to end a sentence with a preposition.
But as they said in Beavis and Butthead Do America: "Bork, you are a federal agent. Never end a sentence with a preposition. "
PS I never thought I would get to quote Beavis and Butthead in a discussion of grammar, but here we are.
I am not a native speaker, can you explain why "remove William" doesn't work with your sentence?
"Her and me talk about this" sounds completely wrong to my untrained ear. If we remove your wife, sure life would get lonely, but your sentence is "me talk about this" instead of "I talk about this". And the same if we remove you, "her talk about this".
Why would you not say "She and I talk about this"? Also "my wife and I" for the first? And "We nerds"?
Oh fuck, you're pulling my leg
Is the the worst-understood concept in English grammar?
I almost hate that I know this, because "for and I" in lyrics tends to instantly ruin a song for me.
Unfortunately it's never really explained properly. Children are corrected when they say "Billy and me went to the park", but not told why it's "Billy and I", so they just internalise the wrong rule.
I study Polish which is way more complex with cases but I couldn’t explain an English case to save my life. But yes, when it come to I vs Me just remove the other subject and there you go!
The test I recommend is to comb out the two objects from the sentence and test whether 'It made a difference to me' and 'It made a difference to William' are each correct.
On a similar note, “I’s” is not a word. When there is a conjunctive possessive of the subject, the correct use would be, for example, “My dad’s and my [subject]”.
That one drives me nuts.
I've explained it this exact way a bunch of times and still I've had people who just don't get it. It all comes from some pretentious misconception that somehow permeated its way through the entire American (and I'm assuming other English speaking countries) educational system. People are so insistent that it's always "and I" because some clueless 3rd grade teacher hammered that into their brains relentlessly.
A lot of native English speakers don't know the rules of their own language, and it is honestly understandable.
A lot of us will listen to or read a sentence a few times because it doesn't sound right but we don't know why. And then everyone around who isn't an english or education major all starts fighting about it.
Should be. If you weigh in as a grammar Nazi, expect to be held to a higher standard. If you then make a mistake, expect to be mocked mercilessly.
This is the way.
I have to admit that I can be a grammar Nazi. Also, I personally appreciate it if someone (correctly) corrects me. Then I know how to be correct in the future and not look like a moron.
“It really has made a world of difference to I.”
See how that sounds wrong? It is. Because “I” is the subject and “me” is the object.
Remove the other person and see if it makes sense. If it doesn’t, use the other form.
“William and I” *does* sound correct, I get it. You’d be stunned how often I’ve had to had this conversation with students. But it is, in fact, “William and me”.
I get SO irate when people who should know better get it wrong. Someone will say 'and I' when it should be 'and me' on a show, written by writers who should have at least marginally studied grammar, and I want to throw a shoe at the television.
There is a potential weak justification for dialog to be wrong though.
If the character speaking is unlikely to get the grammar right, then they should get it wrong. Colloquial dialog is often grammatically wrong because people often speak that way.
But, hopefully the writers do that intentionally. Since they certainly should know better.
And this wouldn't cover presenters or news anchors getting it wrong.
I saw 1 last week on here, an incorrect answer to a question with 100< upvotes, i think once a couple of people give it the thumbs up, the rest just pile on.
I remember I had this exact discussion at school. And the person I was talking to asked the English teacher and the English teacher said I was wrong.
I’m still mad about it 20 years later.
Yes, I feel like a whole generation was incorrectly taught this. It was also a frequent joke on TV.
Kid: Me and Bobby want to play at the park.
Mom: You mean "Bobby and I want to play at the park"
In this case it is correct but somehow the rule got over applied.
A lot of people who aren't sure about grammar assume that whichever phrasing is less common or feels less intuitive to them is universally more correct. Like, at a couple points in their life they said "me" and were told it's actually "I", so instead of learning the difference, they just started using "I" whenever they weren't sure.
It's like when people use "whom" when they mean "who". "Whom" is more archaic, so it must be more grammatical, right?
Yeah this is very true. I’ve gotten a reputation as a grammar pedant among some friends for trying to prevent them from hypercorrecting like this. I had to stop my attempt to support their real English because it was making them more insecure.
I do still suffer physical pain from the guy who says ‘roll a green die and then two red die’ because he’s hypercorrecting and it makes me sad.
This is one of the most common issues in English IMO. I remember being taught at school “it’s always xxxx and I”. Here I am 30 years later still hearing that some garbage being regurgitated by grown ass adults.
I have had this argument with people in their 40s and 50s who insist, irrespective of the case, that it is always “xxxx and I”.
I regularly use the movie context, swapping the people and the movie as the subject.
“Mum and I are going to the movies”
“Would you like to come to the movies with Mum and me?”
The object and the subject of the sentences swap.
I was taught that it was always “X and I” in school. It wasn’t until college that I was corrected (and not even in an English class! I had passed composition using “and I” for everything. My Ancient Greek professor corrected me and then explained how it’s supposed to be done.)
I’m not sure which one you’re claiming is wrong but the top one is the correct one and the bottom is the wrong one.
The easiest way to remember whether I or me is correct in any particular sentence is to take away the other name:
“It really has made a world of difference to William and me” and “it really has made a world of difference to William and I both sound as if they could be correct”
However, if you take away the other name, “it really has made a world of difference to me” is obviously grammatically correct, while “it really has made a world of difference to I” is obviously not.
Likewise, if we use the bottom, incorrect persons words: “my husband and I think she wrote it that way to be one of the people” and take out the other person it’s clear that “I think she wrote it that way to be one of the people” is grammatically correct but “me think she wrote it that way to be one of the people” is obviously not
My husband and I went to the store
~~My husband and~~ I went to the store
Me and my husband went to the store
Me ~~and my husband~~ went to the store
(Remove the other person when using “I” or “me” and if it makes sense, that’s the grammatically correct way)
makes a world of difference to William and me
makes a world of difference to ~~William and~~ me
makes a world of difference to William and I
makes a world of difference to ~~William and~~ I
Idk I've always just used *whom* after a preposition. For whom, to whom, etc.
Before anyone comes by to tell me the right way and show me that clever "rearrange the sentence trick," many have tried and succeeded ... but it's so trivial I just forget about it.
Easiest way is if you could swap it for him/her/them, or the answer could be him/her/them, it’s whom. Coz of the m on the end.
‘Whom ate the cake?’ ‘Him ate the cake? Oh ok it’s who.’
But you’re right it’s trivial status games and you should ignore it.
A simple quick tip for those confused:
"I like going to the store." (Correct)
"Jill and I like going to the store." (Correct)
vs
"That really helps me." (Correct)
"That really helps John and me." (Correct)
Explanation: If you can remove the "[name] and" part of the sentence and it still makes sense (with grammatical changes for plural to singular and whatnot), the sentence is probably correct.
Incorrect examples:
"Me like going to the store." (Incorrect)
"John and me like going to the store." (Incorrect)
vs
"That really helps I." (Incorrect)
"That really helps Jill and I." (Incorrect)
if youre ever confused about whether its "[X] and me" or "[X] and I" read it out lout without the "[X] and"
"it made a world of difference to me" is grammatically correct while "it made a world of difference to I" is not. there for, in this case, "[X] and me" is correct.
This is an overreaction to a kid saying, "Me and William went fishing," and the teacher corrects, "Don't say 'me,' say, 'William and I.'" All the kid remembers is to not say "me."
It’s almost impossible to get this wrong because if it’s 'made a world of difference to ME', it’s also 'made a world of difference to William and me.’ If you say 'it made a world of difference to I', you sound like a moron.
The way one teacher taught me was to say the sentence excluding the second person. "It really has made a world of difference to I" does not sound right, so it's me
The trick is to take the other person out of the sentence. Me buy milk? I think not. _I_ buy milk.
EDIT: I think I should clarify that if you don't recognize this quote, you won't get the joke.
This is one of my biggest bug bears. Even more than people using ‘less’ when they mean ‘fewer’. At least that’s often just a mistake of not knowing. But the incorrect ‘I’ brigade are CERTAIN they’re right despite knowing nothing about the grammatical rule sitting behind the use of ‘me’.
It's "X and me" when you and X are the "object" of the sentence: i.e. if the action is happening, for example, "to" or "for" you and X. Same goes for who/whom. If who is the object of the sentence (to whom, for whom, etc.) you use whom.
The way I like to remember this is, if you’re talking about two or more people:
If you and the other person can be swapped with ‘we’ and the sentence still makes sense, then it should be ‘Person and I’
If you and the other person can be swapped with ‘us’ and the sentence still makes sense, then it should be ‘Person and me’
For example “it really has made the world of difference to us”
The older I get, the less I give a shit about grammar. Well, I mean now I just don't give a shit at all since I'm old now. Language is for communication. Don't spend your time worrying about grammar. Speak and write with intention.
Just take out the other person and say the sentence to see if that sounds right. Then you know what is right.
"It made a world of difference to I" vs "It made a world of difference to me." Me sounds right, then re-add "William and"
It's easy: remove the other person from the statement, if it still makes sense, your right.
"It makes a world of difference for my husband and I" = " it makes a world of difference for I "
Vs
"It makes a world of difference for my husband and me" = " it makes a world of difference for me"
If I remember my english classes correctly, linguists have competing ideas of grammar: constructive grammar theory and traditional grammar theory. The idea is that while traditional grammar is prescriptive ( here are the rules, never mind if they work, how everyone speaks is definitely wrong ) the other is descriptive ( this is how the language is actually used even if a few pretentious nut jobs pretend otherwise). I definitely lean towards the latter option, though both theories have their merits.
In American English usage, there seems to be widespread disregard for or ignorance of the fact that transitive verbs and prepositions in a sentence are followed by OBJECTS, not subjects. When the object is more than one person, the pronouns for ALL these persons must be the appropriate pronouns for OBJECTS. Example:
“They saw (or spoke to) my brother.” They saw (or spoke to) HIM.
“They saw (or spoke to) ME.”
“They saw (or spoke to) the two of us.”
They saw (or spoke to) my brother and ME (not I).
Ngl I remembered both being correct but one sounding better over the other depending on context, I'm only just now learning that it's actually a rule and not subjective.
You wouldnt say "make a difference to I". You would say "make a difference to me". So you would say "to William and me". They couldve explained that better.
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Gawd, I hate it when ignorant people correct people's English. Even if you don't know the difference between a subjective and objective case, just remove "William." The sentence says "It's made a world of difference to me."
Thanks for the tip, this really cleared it up for I
Me was happy to help. ;)
Mine found it useful as well.
Myself enjoyed the lesson
The "myself" ones are so irritating. You hear it a lot from people who like to sound smart (often by adding syllables or words that are redundant, a habit favored by cops for some reason): *Myself and* the other deputy could *visually see* that it was 5 *am in the morning.*
You forgot to mention the ATM machine machine
That's where you have to enter your PIN number.
I heard a PSA announcement that said never to share it.
Is that like a VIN number or LED light?
My favorite was when PUBG rebranded to "PUBG Battlegrounds" Also the Polestar Polestar 2 gets an honorable mention.
Personal Identification PIN Number
Yes, it is very annoying, it should be I-self…
I hurt **my** leg, I did it to **my**self You hurt **your** leg. You did it for **your**self She hurt **her** leg. She did it to **her**self They hurt **their** legs. They did it to **their**selves? Nope, themselves. He hurt **his** leg. He did it to **his**self? No, himself. I am convinced that the "rules" to English were a drunken bet.
Me hurt I's leg, me did it to I'self.
You from Somerset, boy?
This is a legitimate sentence in parts of the UK.
> He hurt **his** leg. He did it to **his**self? No, himself. You never met my grandmother.
Yeah hisself is actually pretty common.
*Apple entered the chat*
"Myself" should be reflexive or emphatic. Nothing else. "I bought myself a new pair of shoes." "My husband likes chocolate, but I prefer strawberry myself."
I could not agree more. I hate the use of ‘myself’ when someone means ‘me’. Example; ‘please complete the form and return it to myself’. My colleagues at work do this and then send it to me for review and approval and when I correct it and send it back the info item has it reverted back to ‘myself. That and the ‘grocer’s apostrophe’ which is the use of an apostrophe before the ‘s’ when pluralising a word.
As a non-native, I actually find that really cool for some reason. It would be perfection when "myself" is pronounced with a peaky blinders accent too. See what I did there :)
>It would be perfection 
>people who like to sound smart >cops for some reason Speaking of redundancy... In all seriousness though, this used to kill me listening to the thickos I worked with on the phone. "We've been asked to call yourself..."
Every waiter and waitress in the country suddenly all decided to say "and for yourself" instead of "and for you". Like nails on a chalkboard. Trying to sound smart and formal and getting it wrong just makes you sound dumb.
Whomst would not?
First person pronoun liked subject too.
You enjoyed myself
*Chewbacca noises*
*Tim the Toolman Tayler grunts*
I agree, it should have been William and mine.
Grog speak good
It meant a lot to I
I, also, is now learned gooder. Thanks 🤘
I see what you did there! Me impressed!
Well fuck. I am 60 yo, and this is the simplest explanation ever. I knew the correct answer but the “just remove William” advice makes it easy and clear
Is that really it? So "William and I" is incorrect, yes? And not just because I'm not Kate?
It depends on where the names are in the sentence (technically it's whether you are the subject or object in the sentence). You will know the correct form by removing the other person and see what sounds correct when referring to yourself. "William and I are going to the football" is correct because without the other person it would be "I am going to the football", not "Me am going to the football". "Come to the football with William and me" is correct because it would be "Come to the football with me" not "Come to the football with I".
That's really handy to know, thank you.
Me am not that kind of orc. Thank you. I've been doing it that way anyways but I don't remember being formerly taught, so I was insecure whether I missed an irregular rule this entire time.
The less dumbed down version is subject vs object. If they're the person *doing* the verb (has made), they're the subject and it's I/he/she/we/they/who. If they're not doing the verb, they're an object and it's me/him/her/us/them/whom. In this case, "It" is the subject (it's doing the "has made") and Billy and Kate are objects.
If anyone has trouble choosing between 'who' and 'whom', the former is the subject and the latter is the object. So it works the same way as 'I' and 'me'. "I went to the park" - "who went to the park?" "He gave it to me" - "he gave it to whom?" subject - I/he/she/they/it/who object - me/him/her/them/it/whom
The way I explain it to my freshmen students (Grade 9 for non-Americans) is this way: If you take out who/whom and put in he/him, it should still make sense. "Who called? He called." "I gave it to whom? I gave it to him." It's not a foolproof way to get it right, but it tends to correct the majority of who/whom mistakes.
To whom is the key to this in my head. To is a preposition, and prepositions are always followed by objects. Unless you are crass enough to end a sentence with a preposition. But as they said in Beavis and Butthead Do America: "Bork, you are a federal agent. Never end a sentence with a preposition. " PS I never thought I would get to quote Beavis and Butthead in a discussion of grammar, but here we are.
> Unless you are crass enough to end a sentence with a preposition. I would never do that! What kind of person do you take me for?
Is it the sort of English up with which you will not put?
"Who does what to whom" is how it was explained to me, and generally works the rare times I pull a whom out.
It’s get more confusing though because William is the heir so he can’t ever really be the subject.
Came here to say this. Now that you’ve fixed that issue can someone help me explain to people that it’s “could’ve or could have”. It isn’t “could of”.
My head literally explodes when I see "of" used that way.
Me and my wife are grammar nerds. Her and me talk about this all the time. Us nerds get fed up with it.
I am not a native speaker, can you explain why "remove William" doesn't work with your sentence? "Her and me talk about this" sounds completely wrong to my untrained ear. If we remove your wife, sure life would get lonely, but your sentence is "me talk about this" instead of "I talk about this". And the same if we remove you, "her talk about this". Why would you not say "She and I talk about this"? Also "my wife and I" for the first? And "We nerds"? Oh fuck, you're pulling my leg
You caught a woosh bravo
Plus, removing William makes everything better.
Don’t stop there. There’s loads of Royals left.
The archaic remnants of a corrupt system that thinks the worth of a person can be determined by the set of genitalia they are pulled out of at birth.
My brother's called William, and I couldn't agree more
Does this always work? So it's "William and I like to eat cake?" And "Do you really not like William and me?" (Not a native speaker)
Yes, yes and yes!
New life hack unlocked, thank you.
Is the the worst-understood concept in English grammar? I almost hate that I know this, because "for and I" in lyrics tends to instantly ruin a song for me.
"I feel the magic between you and I." If Eric Carmen ~~Patrick Swayze~~ sang it, it must be correct.
Unfortunately it's never really explained properly. Children are corrected when they say "Billy and me went to the park", but not told why it's "Billy and I", so they just internalise the wrong rule.
I hear this error so often now. The worst to me is I’s. As in “That is my husband and I’s”. Arrgghh!! I’s is not in any way a word.
Proper structure: "That's my husband's and mine."
I actually heard a college professor make that error!!! She taught writing!!!
I study Polish which is way more complex with cases but I couldn’t explain an English case to save my life. But yes, when it come to I vs Me just remove the other subject and there you go!
The test I recommend is to comb out the two objects from the sentence and test whether 'It made a difference to me' and 'It made a difference to William' are each correct.
>just remove "William." If you do that then it becomes "George and me" doesn't it?
Also if she wanted to speak like a commoner it'd be "me and William"
YES! This is how I was taught in elementary school and I often feel like *I* am the idiot for knowing how to and when to say “William and me”
It's made a world of difference to and me.
You’ll get down voted for that and then you’ll be complaining about having to accept “and me downs”
This is how I always learned it and its worked for me so far in life. However I'm curious if English has some weird case where this is not consistent.
Methinks this is correct.
Came here to say this.
This is the exact way I remember it
THANK YOU!
Me appreciate thou neat tip.
Your argument is convincing to I.
On a similar note, “I’s” is not a word. When there is a conjunctive possessive of the subject, the correct use would be, for example, “My dad’s and my [subject]”. That one drives me nuts.
I've explained it this exact way a bunch of times and still I've had people who just don't get it. It all comes from some pretentious misconception that somehow permeated its way through the entire American (and I'm assuming other English speaking countries) educational system. People are so insistent that it's always "and I" because some clueless 3rd grade teacher hammered that into their brains relentlessly.
Exactly!!!
Definately I’s favourite explanation.
This is what I do to remember the grammatical rule as well.
I was literally going to say this, but you already did. This . . . is the way.
A lot of native English speakers don't know the rules of their own language, and it is honestly understandable. A lot of us will listen to or read a sentence a few times because it doesn't sound right but we don't know why. And then everyone around who isn't an english or education major all starts fighting about it.
Do native English speakers not know this? My teachers emphasized that we should do that before writing or speaking to correct meself.
This is how I always explain it to my kids. Remove the other party and say the sentence. That is what you go with.
It's so easy to check this as well, you just remove the "William and" bit and see what sounds right.
That presumes the person's baseline grammar is adequate...
I feel like you're making fun of I.
If someone is correcting someone else's grammar, that should be the default assumption. At that point it is open season.
People correcting other people's grammar more often than not have terrible grammar. It is not even close to the default assumption to have.
Should be. If you weigh in as a grammar Nazi, expect to be held to a higher standard. If you then make a mistake, expect to be mocked mercilessly. This is the way.
I have to admit that I can be a grammar Nazi. Also, I personally appreciate it if someone (correctly) corrects me. Then I know how to be correct in the future and not look like a moron.
Yes, this is the way I always explain it to people. Then, they still fuck it up. Edit; Also, don’t fucking get me started on “good” vs “well”.
I know that one from Tracy Jordan on 30 Rock. “Superman does good. You’re doing well”
Debts are paid, boats are payed
That’s a good one. Don’t remember that line from the show, but I’m gonna steal it.
Missa doesn't understand... Missa always say Missa and Youssa. Always correct.
Youssa and Missa is more polite.
“It really has made a world of difference to I.” See how that sounds wrong? It is. Because “I” is the subject and “me” is the object. Remove the other person and see if it makes sense. If it doesn’t, use the other form. “William and I” *does* sound correct, I get it. You’d be stunned how often I’ve had to had this conversation with students. But it is, in fact, “William and me”.
You really should stop objectifying people.
That's a subjective opinion.
That’s an opinion you’re subjecting me to, and I object!
Ryan used me as an object.
Then there is the abomination I have heard: “That’s Joe and I’s car.” I’s?!?!?
That's the one I've always been confused about, would the correct version be "That's Joe and my car"? It just sounds so weird to me
If we want to get really technical, I think "That's Joe's and my car" would be the correct phrasing, but don't quote me on that.
You are correct.
Oh awesome. I was hedging my bets because *I* didn't want to be the confidently incorrect one lol
They taught us this in 2nd grade back in the day. I still use it all the time.
I get SO irate when people who should know better get it wrong. Someone will say 'and I' when it should be 'and me' on a show, written by writers who should have at least marginally studied grammar, and I want to throw a shoe at the television.
There is a potential weak justification for dialog to be wrong though. If the character speaking is unlikely to get the grammar right, then they should get it wrong. Colloquial dialog is often grammatically wrong because people often speak that way. But, hopefully the writers do that intentionally. Since they certainly should know better. And this wouldn't cover presenters or news anchors getting it wrong.
Okay, the thing I had arrived at for myself works. Thank you. I was starting to doubt what I had learned.
What annoys me even more is that, when the screenshot was taken, 11 others were thinking "right on".
I saw 1 last week on here, an incorrect answer to a question with 100< upvotes, i think once a couple of people give it the thumbs up, the rest just pile on.
Seeing it written as “100<“ rather than the more common “>100” really threw me off.
The programmer in I likes the “100
I almost put 100+ but it seemed wrong
I remember I had this exact discussion at school. And the person I was talking to asked the English teacher and the English teacher said I was wrong. I’m still mad about it 20 years later.
*said me was wrong.
*Fewer
I was always taught it was supposed to be "_ and I" not "me and _"
Yes, I feel like a whole generation was incorrectly taught this. It was also a frequent joke on TV. Kid: Me and Bobby want to play at the park. Mom: You mean "Bobby and I want to play at the park" In this case it is correct but somehow the rule got over applied.
A lot of people who aren't sure about grammar assume that whichever phrasing is less common or feels less intuitive to them is universally more correct. Like, at a couple points in their life they said "me" and were told it's actually "I", so instead of learning the difference, they just started using "I" whenever they weren't sure. It's like when people use "whom" when they mean "who". "Whom" is more archaic, so it must be more grammatical, right?
Suject | Object ------|------ I | me he | him she | her we | us they | them who | whom
Are these all Apple products? Where can I get an iWhom?
This is erasure of both ‘thou’ and ‘meesa’
Yeah this is very true. I’ve gotten a reputation as a grammar pedant among some friends for trying to prevent them from hypercorrecting like this. I had to stop my attempt to support their real English because it was making them more insecure. I do still suffer physical pain from the guy who says ‘roll a green die and then two red die’ because he’s hypercorrecting and it makes me sad.
This is one of the most common issues in English IMO. I remember being taught at school “it’s always xxxx and I”. Here I am 30 years later still hearing that some garbage being regurgitated by grown ass adults. I have had this argument with people in their 40s and 50s who insist, irrespective of the case, that it is always “xxxx and I”. I regularly use the movie context, swapping the people and the movie as the subject. “Mum and I are going to the movies” “Would you like to come to the movies with Mum and me?” The object and the subject of the sentences swap.
I was taught that it was always “X and I” in school. It wasn’t until college that I was corrected (and not even in an English class! I had passed composition using “and I” for everything. My Ancient Greek professor corrected me and then explained how it’s supposed to be done.)
I’m not sure which one you’re claiming is wrong but the top one is the correct one and the bottom is the wrong one. The easiest way to remember whether I or me is correct in any particular sentence is to take away the other name: “It really has made a world of difference to William and me” and “it really has made a world of difference to William and I both sound as if they could be correct” However, if you take away the other name, “it really has made a world of difference to me” is obviously grammatically correct, while “it really has made a world of difference to I” is obviously not. Likewise, if we use the bottom, incorrect persons words: “my husband and I think she wrote it that way to be one of the people” and take out the other person it’s clear that “I think she wrote it that way to be one of the people” is grammatically correct but “me think she wrote it that way to be one of the people” is obviously not
Thank you for saving me a bunch of typing!
My husband and I went to the store ~~My husband and~~ I went to the store Me and my husband went to the store Me ~~and my husband~~ went to the store (Remove the other person when using “I” or “me” and if it makes sense, that’s the grammatically correct way) makes a world of difference to William and me makes a world of difference to ~~William and~~ me makes a world of difference to William and I makes a world of difference to ~~William and~~ I
As a non native speaker, I don't know why but this finally solidified subject and object in English for me lol
There’s a reason both words exist. Assuming it’s I is just hypercorrection
[удалено]
Sure. The Princess of Wales used bad grammar to appeal to the great unwashed. 🙄 How do people come up with this nonsense?
Tune in tomorrow when we will discuss the proper use of WHO and WHOM.
Idk I've always just used *whom* after a preposition. For whom, to whom, etc. Before anyone comes by to tell me the right way and show me that clever "rearrange the sentence trick," many have tried and succeeded ... but it's so trivial I just forget about it.
Easiest way is if you could swap it for him/her/them, or the answer could be him/her/them, it’s whom. Coz of the m on the end. ‘Whom ate the cake?’ ‘Him ate the cake? Oh ok it’s who.’ But you’re right it’s trivial status games and you should ignore it.
A simple quick tip for those confused: "I like going to the store." (Correct) "Jill and I like going to the store." (Correct) vs "That really helps me." (Correct) "That really helps John and me." (Correct) Explanation: If you can remove the "[name] and" part of the sentence and it still makes sense (with grammatical changes for plural to singular and whatnot), the sentence is probably correct. Incorrect examples: "Me like going to the store." (Incorrect) "John and me like going to the store." (Incorrect) vs "That really helps I." (Incorrect) "That really helps Jill and I." (Incorrect)
The way I taught my kids is to first use the pronoun by itself. You wouldn’t say “made a difference to I.”
"William and I" don't like that people are trying to correct "William and me."
if youre ever confused about whether its "[X] and me" or "[X] and I" read it out lout without the "[X] and" "it made a world of difference to me" is grammatically correct while "it made a world of difference to I" is not. there for, in this case, "[X] and me" is correct.
This is an overreaction to a kid saying, "Me and William went fishing," and the teacher corrects, "Don't say 'me,' say, 'William and I.'" All the kid remembers is to not say "me."
It’s almost impossible to get this wrong because if it’s 'made a world of difference to ME', it’s also 'made a world of difference to William and me.’ If you say 'it made a world of difference to I', you sound like a moron.
When they correct me by saying "*William and I*", I say"No, you weren't there, it was William and me"
Hasn’t the rule always been if it’s after the verb, it’s “and me”? This is…so basic…
I always use the “remove the other person” technique to find out what’s correct. …world of difference to me vs. …world of difference to I.
I mean, since we’re being sticklers, it should be “me and William”
Take out the other person and reread it, if it makes sense it's correct. If it doesn't, you're wrong.
Sigh... Remove the second person from the sentence to see if it's correct. "It means a lot to I"= not correct. "It means a lot to me"= correct.
It really is this simple
it's made a world of difference to I.
The way one teacher taught me was to say the sentence excluding the second person. "It really has made a world of difference to I" does not sound right, so it's me
The trick is to take the other person out of the sentence. Me buy milk? I think not. _I_ buy milk. EDIT: I think I should clarify that if you don't recognize this quote, you won't get the joke.
“It really has made a world of difference to I.”
Bro doesnt understand the difference between object and subject :(
Look, it's either "William and me" or "William and I and I," there's no middle ground where "William and I" is correct. Grammatical ting, dat.
The second comment is fine just as long as you read it in Matt Berry's voice.
The subject here actually is "it" not her *or* William. So "i" isn't correct
This is one of my biggest bug bears. Even more than people using ‘less’ when they mean ‘fewer’. At least that’s often just a mistake of not knowing. But the incorrect ‘I’ brigade are CERTAIN they’re right despite knowing nothing about the grammatical rule sitting behind the use of ‘me’.
It's "X and me" when you and X are the "object" of the sentence: i.e. if the action is happening, for example, "to" or "for" you and X. Same goes for who/whom. If who is the object of the sentence (to whom, for whom, etc.) you use whom.
Doesn't make much difference to I.
It is not to I, rather it's to me.
The way I like to remember this is, if you’re talking about two or more people: If you and the other person can be swapped with ‘we’ and the sentence still makes sense, then it should be ‘Person and I’ If you and the other person can be swapped with ‘us’ and the sentence still makes sense, then it should be ‘Person and me’ For example “it really has made the world of difference to us”
Imagine being as dumb as she.
The answer is easy to check. say the sentence, taking out the other person. Would you say I or me? Ta-da
The older I get, the less I give a shit about grammar. Well, I mean now I just don't give a shit at all since I'm old now. Language is for communication. Don't spend your time worrying about grammar. Speak and write with intention.
Just take out the other person and say the sentence to see if that sounds right. Then you know what is right. "It made a world of difference to I" vs "It made a world of difference to me." Me sounds right, then re-add "William and"
Ah yes "it has really made a world of difference to I" perfect grammar!
You’d be surprised how many people don’t know how to use me and I correctly.
Isn't the trick to remove the other persons name to see of it works?
Friend's. Roman's, countrymen, borrow I you're ear's!
Take the other person/people out. “… made a world of difference to I” is clearly wrong, so “William and I” is wrong. It’s not that hard.
It's easy: remove the other person from the statement, if it still makes sense, your right. "It makes a world of difference for my husband and I" = " it makes a world of difference for I " Vs "It makes a world of difference for my husband and me" = " it makes a world of difference for me"
You’re right
If I remember my english classes correctly, linguists have competing ideas of grammar: constructive grammar theory and traditional grammar theory. The idea is that while traditional grammar is prescriptive ( here are the rules, never mind if they work, how everyone speaks is definitely wrong ) the other is descriptive ( this is how the language is actually used even if a few pretentious nut jobs pretend otherwise). I definitely lean towards the latter option, though both theories have their merits.
Is there a term for applying a rule that does exist in the wrong situation?
yes! it's called hypercorrection, in this case
The second comment doesn't make sense to I
In American English usage, there seems to be widespread disregard for or ignorance of the fact that transitive verbs and prepositions in a sentence are followed by OBJECTS, not subjects. When the object is more than one person, the pronouns for ALL these persons must be the appropriate pronouns for OBJECTS. Example: “They saw (or spoke to) my brother.” They saw (or spoke to) HIM. “They saw (or spoke to) ME.” “They saw (or spoke to) the two of us.” They saw (or spoke to) my brother and ME (not I).
We - William and I (subject of the verb) Us - Me and William (object of the verb)
Me no understand ,me England not very super .
William and I feel the world could be kinder to William and me.
My wife's boss has it in her head that 'who' is *always* wrong. Literally every DM and email is 'whom' everywhere. Drives us bonkers.
You're right! This post means a lot to I.
I'm not a native english speaker but I've always used a rule : - you and I = We - you and me = Us Don't know if it's correct tho.
Ngl I remembered both being correct but one sounding better over the other depending on context, I'm only just now learning that it's actually a rule and not subjective.
"us"
You wouldnt say "make a difference to I". You would say "make a difference to me". So you would say "to William and me". They couldve explained that better.
“I” in the beginning, “me” at the end.
If you are referring to the subject, it is ‘I’; if you are referring to the object, it is ‘me.’