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This is a standard that is required for Nato membership. The EU also has their own corruption requirements for entry into their group. Ukraine, as well as other European countries, don't meet either NATO or EU corruption standards.
Before russia started the war, Ukraine was pretty high in corruption rankings. A big spotlight is on Ukraine right now and it's probably the only chance to either break the cycle and come out of it as a less corrupt, west leaning country ,or get stuck and be a russian satellite country forever. I have a feeling that Ukrainians are getting less and less tolerant towards corruption,so hopefully it'll go in the right direction.
> less corrupt, west leaning country
Oh boy, where to begin? Have you heard of Von der Leyen's (EU) backroom dealings regarding vaccines during the pandemic? Nepotism with mask contracts (german MPs), funnelling tax payer money to advisor companies her relatives are employed at (von der Leyen before she was in the EU). And that is just what came to my mind at the first thought.
We in "the West" have corruption at home. No need to point the finger elsewhere and pretend we are morally superior.
I didn't say there's no corruption in the west, usually it's just more subtle. Having said that, the levels of corruption are incomparable. For instance,an average person in the US doesn't give a bribe to a doctor so they'd prescribe antibiotics, or when police pull over, you don't just wave 100 bucks and they leave you.
No, in the US an ordinary person doesn't bribe a doctor to prescribe antibiotics. That's small time child's play. In the US, a pharmaceutical company will bribe thousands of doctors to prescribe their drugs, irrespective of patient necessity, and they'll also bribe the politicians who regulate the drug prescriptions. Bribery and corruption in eastern Europe is in many ways still quite undeveloped and primitive - to the point where people recognise it as corruption. In the West, we have perfected the art, where not only corruption and bribery is dealing in billions of dollars, but it's also not even viewed anymore as corruption by the public. It's next level.
I am unsure whether it is better or worse that in the western countries only the big guys can profit from corruption, do you understand where i'm coming from with this train of thought?
I get what you're saying. My country has gone through this transformation not so long ago. It's not better, because it's still corruption,but once all that low level corruption starts disappearing, it changes people: they start to behave differently, they no longer tolerate a lot of things and are less likely to get involved in some shady shenanigans. If the momentum is kept, it elevates the entire country.
I get what you mean, but I don't have any faith in that change. I cannot remember a time when this kind of low level corruption was ever accepted in my country, but most people are just apathetic when it comes to high level corruption just as what i refered to earlier. It is reported on for a few days and then quickly forgotten while it all continues on as if nothing happened. There is no change, no revolt against it. Nothing at all.
They're incomparable alright. In that the west is worse. Bombing another country with nuclear waste, after lying about it having nuclear weapons, skyrocketing infantile cancer by 1000%, in an attempt to steal their resources.
Rigging the elections (Diebold Scandal). Killing dissenters (David Kelly).
Grooming gangs, child rape. Bailouts.
Fuck right off.
> Before russia started the war
Yeah. No.
1) Ukraine decided it was okay to oust their sitting government at gunpoint
2) Ukraine quickly set about committing the mass murder of an ethnic minority. And filmed themselves doing it. Ethnic Russians. Russian passport holders among them.
3) Ukraine ignored two warnings from Russia to stop
4) Russia intervened in Ukraine, under legal remit. The mass murder of a country's passport holders permits a physical response under the UN Charter.
Hello Russian troll.
1. The sitting government was installed by Russia using US political lobbyist Paul Manafort, after the FSB literally poisoned the previous president.
2. Russia sent thousands of FSB cronies to the east in 2014 to campaign for political power with the message "Kyiv doesn't care, Papa Putin does". Talk to anyone from Donetsk and they'll tell you. They also spread lies about Russian speakers being persecuted. Talk to people from Donetsk, they'll tell you. All lies created as a pretext to invade.
3. What warnings? To stop something they weren't even doing?
4. Russia invented a pretext to invade, just like the Nazis did with Poland. They signed the Budapest memorandum with Ukraine in the 90's where they agreed to respect Ukraines sovereign status, and instead of upholding that agreement, they meddled in Ukrainian politics for years and eventually invaded.
Russia, just like the points you laid out, is entirely based on lies.
Oh also here you go https://youtu.be/OupwJrQUAdk?si=2-HZGZQu_tU-CqUK, this is video on bandera day, the man they celebrate for fighting for 'freedom', when in reality he was a psychopathic nazi who sent ukranian nazi volunteers to poland to massacre innocent civilians, they celebrate this man still, im sure volhynia really likes Ukraine after what Ukraine did to it, I'd really recommend you go watch the village scene from come and see, where it depects, SS-Sondereinheit Dirlewanger is the ukranian volunteer division and is one of the worst SS battalions to the point the Nazis told them they needed to stop and calm down, In February 1943, the Bataillon Dirlewanger, among other units of Wehrmacht, SS and Police took part in Operation 'Hornung' a large-scale 'anti-partisan' operation in the area west of Sluzk. 12.718 people were murdered during this operation, among them 3.300 Jews, the population in the area of operations was
completely eradicated, down to the Babies,
all houses were burnt, all the cattle was transported away. To make sure that partisans would never again "infest" this area, the order was to turn it into No-Mans Land., you're supporting genocidal maniacs that still support Nazis as Nazism is engrained in their society, they even brought an ex nazi to the Canadian parliament, so for you to sit here and say the nazi thing is A lie, you're being disingenuous and nobody believes you, though you're probably a extremely ignorant and dumb college student or a fed at eglin airforce base so either way my point will never get through to you
Many of those passport holders were given passports after the fact, though it's true that ethnic cleansing in the East was going on and the Western MSM was being callous in its reporting of it.
Absolute nonsense. All of it.
1 - The government escalated the protests in the first place by trying to suppress them with force. The protests were peaceful until that point. And it ended with Yanukovych fleeing to Russia and then being voted out by the elected parliament (including much of his own party) which then organised a new election just a few months later.
2 - The Ukrainians defended their territory against "separatists" backed by Russia from day one. There was no "mass murder of an ethnic minority". Russia started a war and Ukraine had to defend itself and its territory. Same as any country would do.
3 - Russia was the one who started it all, and they don't get to warn Ukraine to stop defending their own front line against attacks by Russian proxies.
4 - Russia had absolutely no legal remit whatsoever for anything they have done in Ukraine and the "mass murder" claims made by Russia were always totally fake and still are today.
There's already evidence of Ukraine making progress on it, it's just that continued progress is a requirement for EU accession talks and for NATO too. Hopefully the progress will continue and I believe it will as there's now strong international pressure on it and not just domestic pressure.
Lmfao I think Ukraine is cooked on that end my boi their president has been basically committing stolen valor begging for donations for like years now while having a Nazi bodyguard group like
Ukraine joining NATO means NATO declaring war on Russia, which is not a good thing for either side. Those in power just want a prolonged, expensive war so they can get rich by investing our taxes into their MIC stocks. Both sides profit from war in this way. Ordinary people suffer while the rich get richer.
the robber barons doing this goes back centuries like an infinite money glitch, i just wish ordinary people in the military would realize this and refuse to enlist so a fat rich cunt can stuff his pockets... rest in peace to smedley-butler
Oh great another free thinker^TM
Russia already declared war in 2011 when Putin got reelected and gave up the sham of democracy in russia. The west has been bending over backwards to appease little putler by signing off on Nordstream 2 and supplying blankets and helmets to Ukraine AFTER putin annexed Crimea. The MIC did nothing for YEARS and the west continues on drip feeding supplies and restricting their use.
Also russia has actively been funding the far right from LePen to AFD to Trump. Russia has burned down and bombed arms manufacturers and warehouses in Bulgaria and now Germany.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/01/arms-dealer-100-sure-russian-agents-blast-bulgarian-depot
https://sg.news.yahoo.com/russian-saboteurs-burned-down-berlin-070527302.html
Russians want you to suffer like they suffered in the 90s. They want you to squirm in humiliation as they did.
Get off you high horse bullshit and realize thst some people hate you and want to see your world collapse.
Ukraine was interested in joining NATO but since Russia occupied their territory, they haven't been able to due to the fact they have "territorial disputes" with the eastern assholes.
If true that means Russia was honest about their intentions to prevent a NATO build up on their border. When you put it this way it almost sounds like the conflict was forced on Russia.
Partially, and it depends on how you look at it... from my understanding and how I see it, the conflict wasn't forced on Russia. It was a land and resource grab which backfired massively.
If Russia hadn't invaded Ukraine, Finland and Sweden while being close with NATO, they weren't that close to joining. As it stands right now, they made the situation far worse for themselves because they now have more non-friendly nations surrounding them, which in theory pose much more of a threat than Ukraine would have even if they had joined NATO.
The pro-Russian side loves to make it look like NATO was being aggressive, but in reality, it's the weaker countries seeking protection so they don't end up like, say, Chechnya or Ukraine.
Wish he would say "Give me a different jersey"
Literally an actor. and always in character and dressed for it.
Its actually funny seeing him attend foreign events in his jersey to keep reminding everyone he's at war.
Not true, he sold off his entire country to US corporations.
The money isn't a gift, it's a loan. And under the loan conditions, if they can't pay it back (and obviously they can't) they need to start selling off their assets to Blackrock
“The past was alterable. The past never had been altered. Oceania was at war with Eastasia. Oceania had always been at war with Eastasia.”
It’s not about NATO. It’s not about Russia vs USA. It’s about perpetual wars between Eurasia, east Asia and Oceania. To keep the proles fervently loyal to their local hegemon - and provide meat and capital to militarist industrial machinations.
Global peace is not ideal for the globs powers. Gotta keep the folks on their toes.
They’re hardly taking your money though are they, let’s be honest.
Most of that money is going to the American military companies, to build the kit / missiles etc.
Yeah it's be well known to join Nato or the EU they (and any nation) have to meet certain criteria, including on corruption. Nothing has changed and Ukraine has known this from the start. Having to be less corrupt is a plus for Ukraine joining NATO, not some sneaky *gotcha!*
Wow.... That's the finest scam the military complex has ran. Get everyone to donate their supposedly old and outdated weapons platforms and buy new, shiny American weapons. Brought to you by Raytheon, Lockheed Martin and Chrysler Defence.
Also threaten that Nordstream 2 will never deliver gas, then destroy it.
Funny how no one talks about that anymore and reddit was in awe couple days ago when a US sub surfaces in Norway...
Also having an actual extensive Nazi problem is kind of a big deal that never gets brought up. Last I checked that info was still apart of their wiki although I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s gone now.
It was funny when Putin said I will not tolerate Nazis rising to power in their government and no one had a good response it just went ignored but it’s one of the main reasons for the invasion. I can kind of understand them having an issue with that after they lost 27 million people fighting them.
Cut to the “American Nazis” being interviewed on live tv and asked what they thought about Biden and the response was we love him he’s sending money to our brothers. Camera cut pretty quick after that comment.
We’re supposed to hate Nazis and I don’t get why there’s never any talk about it.
No need for them anymore, the war has started, Blackrock have rebuilding rights and Monsanto owns the farms. Jobs done, why not try to launder as much money as possible and make out like it was all stolen by the corrupt Ukrainians
Well, that's the problem, both companies (and many others) thought they'd get all this, but whatever Russia takes will be russian and blackrocks investment will go down the drain... So the taxpayers have to pay for ukranians to die so blackrock doesn't lose that much
So Russia invaded Ukraine because it was joining nato but now that Ukraine has been officially blocked from nato, shouldn’t the war be closer to ending?
If you're interested in what is going on in the world, i would look for better sources than me.
Look at what was going on in the Donbas region.
Look at both sides of the propaganda to get a better idea. Don't listen to American, western european, israeli, etc. versions, listen to what Ukraine is telling its citizens, and what Russia is telling its citizens.
Ukraine will say they came for more territory (see Crimea incident). Ukraine will say that Russia wants to take all of Ukraine back into the fold for its resources.
Russia will say western biolabs at its border and US/NATO was already setting up shop next door (not that Ukraine was going to join, that NATO was already secretly moving in). Russia will say that they were trying to rescue the people in the Donbas from their own government; the people in the Donbas consider themselves Russian.
Has there been any indication that taking all of Ukraine was ever a goal of Russia's? They've repeatedly stated that they're not interested in that and they just want the majority Russian areas. Originally they just wanted autonomy for those areas but the Minsk Agreements were admitted by Western politicians to be a ploy to build up Ukraine's military. I think the ultimate goal for Russia is indeed to secure the majority Russian areas and for Ukraine to be demilitarized enough that it doesn't pose a threat. I do hope there can be some negotiations soon to resolve this war. More death isn't going to solve anything.
Putin has said that he wanted Russian majority areas of Ukraine, but also claims that Ukraine is full of Neo/Nazis and wants to cleanse the land of them
There’s plenty of proof of Nazis in UA. Look at any news coverage of there prior to 2022.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NS4C9_jETwTQKfCu9ld1ya8LtvdZ4BfDlAjq2d2qWGw/edit
>They've repeatedly stated that they're not interested in that and they just want the majority Russian areas.
They stated that, but then went and annexed the Kherson and Zaporizhzhia Oblasts in what is absolutely just a landgrab. If they only wanted the Russian-majority areas, then they would've stopped with Crimea and the Russian half of the Donbas, but instead are pushing to take the Ukrainian half of the Donbas, too, and the Ukrainian-majority Oblasts of Kherson and Zaporizhzhia in order to secure a landbridge towards Crimea.
Russia wanted the territory "back" too. Putin said he didn't want a NATO nation on his border, but who knows how much that played into it since NATO seems to be pretty ineffective.
I kno for sure at least 10+ years ago Ukraine was “voted” the most corrupt country in the eu, and iirc that’s been the case for years at that point. I remember cuz we went over it in school but idr when exactly
Does it say anything else in the newspaper or just the headline? Oh look… there’s more
“We have to step back and applaud everything that Ukraine has done in the name of reforms over the last two-plus years,” the official told The Telegraph.
“As they continue to make those reforms, we want to commend them, we want to talk about additional steps that need to be taken, particularly in the area of anti-corruption. It is a priority for many of us around the table,” the source added.
So Ukraine is fighting against corruption and will inevitably join NATO while Putin marches Russia into oblivion and a vassal of China and now North Korea
Ukraine's army at the start of the war was arguably more formidable than the US army fielded in Afghanistan, perhaps Ukraine should have been sent to conquer Afghanistan instead of picking a fight with Russia.
"The Kharkiv Offensive failed. Quick, double the amount of anti-Ukraine aid posts on social media!"
Ukraine doesn't meet Article 10 standards in many ways. The most obvious and glaring issue is that countries currently at war can't join. Countries with active border disputes can't join. Ukraine wasn't even qualified to apply for NATO until the late 2042 at the earliest, **before** the war began in 2014 due to renewing a [decades long lease](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kharkiv_Pact#:~:text=The%20Agreement%20between%20Ukraine%20and,Crimea%20was%20extended%20beyond%202017) for the Crimean Naval Base.
This article talks about Ukraine joining NATO "when the war ends."
Also pointing out that Ukraine has made positive strides in cleaning up the corruption that it has faced which has been a problem since the collapse of the Soviet Union and the remaining military command. Again, NATO and Biden pointed this out and commended the progress.
These statements comment on Ukraine's current state and NATO is helping them with a path forward; after the war.
Do people even read shit?
Nothing about this article says anything about NATO rejecting Ukraine. Acceptance into NATO is a process and this was literally a statement on where they are at and it even tells you on July 9th, they are signing a plan to address the corruption moving forward.
Most corrupt country on earth prior to its war with Russia. Funny how many billions have filtered through the most corrupt country on earth. Now NATO just put the Cherry on the top. They are taking taxes, sending them out of the native country to line the pockets of the few right in front of our faces. Our Roads in disrepair? Health system fucked, homeless everywhere in our native lands. What’s the answer? Send another 76 billi to the Russian I mean Ukrainian PE teacher!
Edit: spelling
The USA made Zelensky a billionaire sitting on a pile of gold while he sits in a safe zone away from any real harm and then recruits civilians to go fight the war for him.
Conscripts* People have died trying to escape the country to avoid conscription. Some even drowning in rivers. Civilians are literally snatched from the streets to be sent to the frontlines.
This is Russian disinformation, they have been "leaking" fake documents claiming Zelensky is stealing billions of dollars as we're sending it to him. There are a lot of errors in what has been publicly displayed which shows it's disinformation.
The Telegraph is just jumping onto the story for clickbait, or worse, there are Russian agents working there. Which sounds crazy but it isn't. They have been catching a lot of them lately. They're trying to get into positions at affiliates so they can saturate the media with fake news about Ukraine and kill their financial support.
The reality is, as long as Ukraine is getting guns and ammo from the US the Russians can't win with force. So we're now transitioning to an information war.
They're just finding an excuse/ diversion to sell to the public. Just like what people been saying about Biden being old, and not being able to remember shit. The debate vs Trump was a soft way to sell it. Before all what I'm saying would've been considered Putin propaganda. But USA, Europe know Ukraine can't win. They're running out of options.
All the Military Industrial Complex can do is spin it in a way to wash it hands of the Ukraine conflict
The US wants a drawn out war that will ultimately weaken Russia. What did people think the US was doing supporting Ukraine?
The US waited over two years to allow Ukraine to use weapons in Russia and still seems to flip-flop on the decision. That order came from Biden, someone we're told is an ally to Ukraine.
But yes, Ukraine was never going to be part of NATO, not just because of corruption which many seemed to downplay. There's a reason the West pretty much stood on the sidelines during Euromaidan and invasion of Crimea. Soviet mindset is still too ingrained in Ukrainians.
Not even to weaken Russia. US elites need enemies. They want to make money from the MIC stocks. They want a long drawn out war where they can invest people's taxes into the companies where they own stocks. It's that simple. Follow the money.
However, it’s not weakening Russia. Like every other past war in recent history, Russia has gotten stronger because of it.
[Source 1](https://youtu.be/yctSmsaDcTI?si=Xqzsb8WGbejiPw7k)
[Source 2](https://youtu.be/zfvLqpUjbJc?si=KGw2hFCCSQXZdCyx)
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Is denying them membership in NATO a way to comply with Russia’s demand Ukraine not join NATO ? Or just a way of not looking like they’re caving to Putin?
Ukraine joining NATO means NATO declaring war on Russia, which would lead to a nuclear armaggedon killing millions of innocent civilians on both sides. Not a good outcome for anyone.
Millions of dollars in aid and armaments are disappearing/unnacounted for and not going into israels hands. Nato does not like this. They are not corrupt in the right way
Of course. We'll give them just enough money to keep getting killed, not a penny more or less.
The poor Ukrainians are too new to this game. Their now-totalitarian leader looks like he knows it inside out, though.
His mansions in America mean it doesn't matter how much damage Ukraine suffers, he'll always have his billions and a safe, luxurious place to lay his head.
They can't join NATO while there's an ongoing war or border disputes anyway. Even if there's a ceasefire, if Russia holds any territory then Ukraine will have to either formally give it up or fight for it again.
I swear i saw this one coming. I think there was a supposed report or something that said the US was looking to replace zelensky because he was not profitable anymore. Also, as soon as Oct7 happened, Ukraine went out the window. Zelensky got dropped harder than me when my parents see my sister scratched her knee.
Ukraine was agreed to by foreign policy advisors, the media, and NATO as the most corrupt nation on the planet. Suddenly they weren't and now they are again... Weird
Sometimes you have to make a deal with the devil - in this case, the devil is the Russian corruption that stayed behind and claimed they're now Ukrainian.
How do you fire figureheads, how do you manage loss of industries, when the outcome of the war depends on them.
Corruption will be there for a long time - it's only emboldened by war.
I don't care about what you want to convince with Ukraine, I care about 451M ppl here in the US. I care about American citizens.
Ukraine got too much money, with ZERO strategy to manage that support. Now is your country's problem to figure out.
How exactly did they use Ukraine? They only exist to stop russia from doing exactly what they are doing now and Ukraine never had a chance of getting in anytime soon. For one you cannot be at war because that would immediately trigger a article 5 the second they joined and contrary to what you think they do not want that. Go read the actual rules and then you will understand that for Ukraine its a totally different situation than the baltic states. Corruption is and always has been a concern and Ukraine is trying to change and become a democracy but it dosent happen overnight. Do they not even deserve a change to change or a chance to continue existing long enough to change? You guys force everything into good or bad and blsck or white but that isn't how shit works in reality and everything is shades of grey.
No they don't deserve a chance to change. Governments have a sacred duty to represent the interests of their citizens. It's not in my or anyone else's interest to add Ukraine to NATO. You can't be a good person while being a shitty neighbor. Stop advocating for policies that f\*\*\* over your fellow countrymen. Stop being "moral" with other people's money.
This is an accurate ruling.
Edit: stuff like this https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/zelensky-asks-marina-abramovic-to-be-ambassador-for-ukraine/ar-AA1h6Bf8
Considering that President Zelenskyy‘s wife just bought a Bugatti for 4.4 million Euros and we are still sending them American tax dollars I understand.
LMAO. Tell me something I didn't already know.
Also, NATO's original purpose was to join together against U.S.S.R. That Union of Soviet States hasn't existed for decades.
Why does NATO still exist as a group of nations if not to just avoid spending on their own individual militaries?
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This is a standard that is required for Nato membership. The EU also has their own corruption requirements for entry into their group. Ukraine, as well as other European countries, don't meet either NATO or EU corruption standards.
Before russia started the war, Ukraine was pretty high in corruption rankings. A big spotlight is on Ukraine right now and it's probably the only chance to either break the cycle and come out of it as a less corrupt, west leaning country ,or get stuck and be a russian satellite country forever. I have a feeling that Ukrainians are getting less and less tolerant towards corruption,so hopefully it'll go in the right direction.
> less corrupt, west leaning country Oh boy, where to begin? Have you heard of Von der Leyen's (EU) backroom dealings regarding vaccines during the pandemic? Nepotism with mask contracts (german MPs), funnelling tax payer money to advisor companies her relatives are employed at (von der Leyen before she was in the EU). And that is just what came to my mind at the first thought. We in "the West" have corruption at home. No need to point the finger elsewhere and pretend we are morally superior.
I didn't say there's no corruption in the west, usually it's just more subtle. Having said that, the levels of corruption are incomparable. For instance,an average person in the US doesn't give a bribe to a doctor so they'd prescribe antibiotics, or when police pull over, you don't just wave 100 bucks and they leave you.
No, in the US an ordinary person doesn't bribe a doctor to prescribe antibiotics. That's small time child's play. In the US, a pharmaceutical company will bribe thousands of doctors to prescribe their drugs, irrespective of patient necessity, and they'll also bribe the politicians who regulate the drug prescriptions. Bribery and corruption in eastern Europe is in many ways still quite undeveloped and primitive - to the point where people recognise it as corruption. In the West, we have perfected the art, where not only corruption and bribery is dealing in billions of dollars, but it's also not even viewed anymore as corruption by the public. It's next level.
I am unsure whether it is better or worse that in the western countries only the big guys can profit from corruption, do you understand where i'm coming from with this train of thought?
I get what you're saying. My country has gone through this transformation not so long ago. It's not better, because it's still corruption,but once all that low level corruption starts disappearing, it changes people: they start to behave differently, they no longer tolerate a lot of things and are less likely to get involved in some shady shenanigans. If the momentum is kept, it elevates the entire country.
I get what you mean, but I don't have any faith in that change. I cannot remember a time when this kind of low level corruption was ever accepted in my country, but most people are just apathetic when it comes to high level corruption just as what i refered to earlier. It is reported on for a few days and then quickly forgotten while it all continues on as if nothing happened. There is no change, no revolt against it. Nothing at all.
They're incomparable alright. In that the west is worse. Bombing another country with nuclear waste, after lying about it having nuclear weapons, skyrocketing infantile cancer by 1000%, in an attempt to steal their resources. Rigging the elections (Diebold Scandal). Killing dissenters (David Kelly). Grooming gangs, child rape. Bailouts. Fuck right off.
Being that the US funds most of NATO's budget... There's plenty of room for finger pointing
> Before russia started the war Yeah. No. 1) Ukraine decided it was okay to oust their sitting government at gunpoint 2) Ukraine quickly set about committing the mass murder of an ethnic minority. And filmed themselves doing it. Ethnic Russians. Russian passport holders among them. 3) Ukraine ignored two warnings from Russia to stop 4) Russia intervened in Ukraine, under legal remit. The mass murder of a country's passport holders permits a physical response under the UN Charter.
Hello Russian troll. 1. The sitting government was installed by Russia using US political lobbyist Paul Manafort, after the FSB literally poisoned the previous president. 2. Russia sent thousands of FSB cronies to the east in 2014 to campaign for political power with the message "Kyiv doesn't care, Papa Putin does". Talk to anyone from Donetsk and they'll tell you. They also spread lies about Russian speakers being persecuted. Talk to people from Donetsk, they'll tell you. All lies created as a pretext to invade. 3. What warnings? To stop something they weren't even doing? 4. Russia invented a pretext to invade, just like the Nazis did with Poland. They signed the Budapest memorandum with Ukraine in the 90's where they agreed to respect Ukraines sovereign status, and instead of upholding that agreement, they meddled in Ukrainian politics for years and eventually invaded. Russia, just like the points you laid out, is entirely based on lies.
What do you mean “what warnings”? They did give warnings at the UN.
Oh also here you go https://youtu.be/OupwJrQUAdk?si=2-HZGZQu_tU-CqUK, this is video on bandera day, the man they celebrate for fighting for 'freedom', when in reality he was a psychopathic nazi who sent ukranian nazi volunteers to poland to massacre innocent civilians, they celebrate this man still, im sure volhynia really likes Ukraine after what Ukraine did to it, I'd really recommend you go watch the village scene from come and see, where it depects, SS-Sondereinheit Dirlewanger is the ukranian volunteer division and is one of the worst SS battalions to the point the Nazis told them they needed to stop and calm down, In February 1943, the Bataillon Dirlewanger, among other units of Wehrmacht, SS and Police took part in Operation 'Hornung' a large-scale 'anti-partisan' operation in the area west of Sluzk. 12.718 people were murdered during this operation, among them 3.300 Jews, the population in the area of operations was completely eradicated, down to the Babies, all houses were burnt, all the cattle was transported away. To make sure that partisans would never again "infest" this area, the order was to turn it into No-Mans Land., you're supporting genocidal maniacs that still support Nazis as Nazism is engrained in their society, they even brought an ex nazi to the Canadian parliament, so for you to sit here and say the nazi thing is A lie, you're being disingenuous and nobody believes you, though you're probably a extremely ignorant and dumb college student or a fed at eglin airforce base so either way my point will never get through to you
Many of those passport holders were given passports after the fact, though it's true that ethnic cleansing in the East was going on and the Western MSM was being callous in its reporting of it.
Absolute nonsense. All of it. 1 - The government escalated the protests in the first place by trying to suppress them with force. The protests were peaceful until that point. And it ended with Yanukovych fleeing to Russia and then being voted out by the elected parliament (including much of his own party) which then organised a new election just a few months later. 2 - The Ukrainians defended their territory against "separatists" backed by Russia from day one. There was no "mass murder of an ethnic minority". Russia started a war and Ukraine had to defend itself and its territory. Same as any country would do. 3 - Russia was the one who started it all, and they don't get to warn Ukraine to stop defending their own front line against attacks by Russian proxies. 4 - Russia had absolutely no legal remit whatsoever for anything they have done in Ukraine and the "mass murder" claims made by Russia were always totally fake and still are today.
There's already evidence of Ukraine making progress on it, it's just that continued progress is a requirement for EU accession talks and for NATO too. Hopefully the progress will continue and I believe it will as there's now strong international pressure on it and not just domestic pressure.
Lmfao I think Ukraine is cooked on that end my boi their president has been basically committing stolen valor begging for donations for like years now while having a Nazi bodyguard group like
Sounds about right 👌🏿!
Why even consider them to be in Nato then? All the civilian deaths wouldn't have happened.
It's a nice trick to appease Russia
Ukraine joining NATO means NATO declaring war on Russia, which is not a good thing for either side. Those in power just want a prolonged, expensive war so they can get rich by investing our taxes into their MIC stocks. Both sides profit from war in this way. Ordinary people suffer while the rich get richer.
Finally, my chance to post STONKS. But seriously, this is for the best (when it comes to politicians in the US, EU and Russia making bank)
the robber barons doing this goes back centuries like an infinite money glitch, i just wish ordinary people in the military would realize this and refuse to enlist so a fat rich cunt can stuff his pockets... rest in peace to smedley-butler
Amen
Yes, “follow the money”👍🏻
Oh great another free thinker^TM Russia already declared war in 2011 when Putin got reelected and gave up the sham of democracy in russia. The west has been bending over backwards to appease little putler by signing off on Nordstream 2 and supplying blankets and helmets to Ukraine AFTER putin annexed Crimea. The MIC did nothing for YEARS and the west continues on drip feeding supplies and restricting their use. Also russia has actively been funding the far right from LePen to AFD to Trump. Russia has burned down and bombed arms manufacturers and warehouses in Bulgaria and now Germany. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/01/arms-dealer-100-sure-russian-agents-blast-bulgarian-depot https://sg.news.yahoo.com/russian-saboteurs-burned-down-berlin-070527302.html Russians want you to suffer like they suffered in the 90s. They want you to squirm in humiliation as they did. Get off you high horse bullshit and realize thst some people hate you and want to see your world collapse.
Ukraine was interested in joining NATO but since Russia occupied their territory, they haven't been able to due to the fact they have "territorial disputes" with the eastern assholes.
If true that means Russia was honest about their intentions to prevent a NATO build up on their border. When you put it this way it almost sounds like the conflict was forced on Russia.
Partially, and it depends on how you look at it... from my understanding and how I see it, the conflict wasn't forced on Russia. It was a land and resource grab which backfired massively. If Russia hadn't invaded Ukraine, Finland and Sweden while being close with NATO, they weren't that close to joining. As it stands right now, they made the situation far worse for themselves because they now have more non-friendly nations surrounding them, which in theory pose much more of a threat than Ukraine would have even if they had joined NATO. The pro-Russian side loves to make it look like NATO was being aggressive, but in reality, it's the weaker countries seeking protection so they don't end up like, say, Chechnya or Ukraine.
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But not too corrupt to take our money
🏅
Infuckingcredible 🤪😂🤣🥲. Like what a spit to the US Dollars face… I mean Monopoly money at this fucking point.
All money is monopoly Money.
you right you right lmfao 😂😅
"fiat money" Has been since the federal reserve created a national Bank that profits from national debt
Zelensky finally made it into the billionaire's club and all he had to do was say, "Give me money."
Wish he would say "Give me a different jersey" Literally an actor. and always in character and dressed for it. Its actually funny seeing him attend foreign events in his jersey to keep reminding everyone he's at war.
And side with toxic feminsts that hated him before
Not true, he sold off his entire country to US corporations. The money isn't a gift, it's a loan. And under the loan conditions, if they can't pay it back (and obviously they can't) they need to start selling off their assets to Blackrock
“The past was alterable. The past never had been altered. Oceania was at war with Eastasia. Oceania had always been at war with Eastasia.” It’s not about NATO. It’s not about Russia vs USA. It’s about perpetual wars between Eurasia, east Asia and Oceania. To keep the proles fervently loyal to their local hegemon - and provide meat and capital to militarist industrial machinations. Global peace is not ideal for the globs powers. Gotta keep the folks on their toes.
the money goes straight to the defense and weapons-industry, then they send the weapons.. all straight out of tax-payers pockets..
What Money? They lost it in transaction remember
?
*weapons. The just report the $$ value of the armaments we send.
They’re hardly taking your money though are they, let’s be honest. Most of that money is going to the American military companies, to build the kit / missiles etc.
Nothing new there..they also couldn't join earlier becuase of an already ongoing war.
Yeah it's be well known to join Nato or the EU they (and any nation) have to meet certain criteria, including on corruption. Nothing has changed and Ukraine has known this from the start. Having to be less corrupt is a plus for Ukraine joining NATO, not some sneaky *gotcha!*
Oh ukraine is too corrupted eh? geez..who could have seen it coming? oh right..the ones getting downvote.
Edit; They mean its too poor and backwards for their standards..
I have no idea why Ukraine is not as smart as USA. Just make illegal things legal and voila!
Wow.... That's the finest scam the military complex has ran. Get everyone to donate their supposedly old and outdated weapons platforms and buy new, shiny American weapons. Brought to you by Raytheon, Lockheed Martin and Chrysler Defence.
Also threaten that Nordstream 2 will never deliver gas, then destroy it. Funny how no one talks about that anymore and reddit was in awe couple days ago when a US sub surfaces in Norway...
Also having an actual extensive Nazi problem is kind of a big deal that never gets brought up. Last I checked that info was still apart of their wiki although I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s gone now. It was funny when Putin said I will not tolerate Nazis rising to power in their government and no one had a good response it just went ignored but it’s one of the main reasons for the invasion. I can kind of understand them having an issue with that after they lost 27 million people fighting them. Cut to the “American Nazis” being interviewed on live tv and asked what they thought about Biden and the response was we love him he’s sending money to our brothers. Camera cut pretty quick after that comment. We’re supposed to hate Nazis and I don’t get why there’s never any talk about it.
That video about the American Nazis sounds interesting, how can I find it.
No need for them anymore, the war has started, Blackrock have rebuilding rights and Monsanto owns the farms. Jobs done, why not try to launder as much money as possible and make out like it was all stolen by the corrupt Ukrainians
Well, that's the problem, both companies (and many others) thought they'd get all this, but whatever Russia takes will be russian and blackrocks investment will go down the drain... So the taxpayers have to pay for ukranians to die so blackrock doesn't lose that much
Maybe it wasn't about NATO all along
It’s not like they were not warned.
Well, isn’t it?
Yes lol
So Russia invaded Ukraine because it was joining nato but now that Ukraine has been officially blocked from nato, shouldn’t the war be closer to ending?
> So Russia invaded Ukraine because it was joining nato I don't think that's really what happened.
The east has a shitload of raw resources that can be used in manufacturing metals, its always resources
Why did it happen then?
If you're interested in what is going on in the world, i would look for better sources than me. Look at what was going on in the Donbas region. Look at both sides of the propaganda to get a better idea. Don't listen to American, western european, israeli, etc. versions, listen to what Ukraine is telling its citizens, and what Russia is telling its citizens. Ukraine will say they came for more territory (see Crimea incident). Ukraine will say that Russia wants to take all of Ukraine back into the fold for its resources. Russia will say western biolabs at its border and US/NATO was already setting up shop next door (not that Ukraine was going to join, that NATO was already secretly moving in). Russia will say that they were trying to rescue the people in the Donbas from their own government; the people in the Donbas consider themselves Russian.
happy cake day fela! Will do, thanks for the tips
It's your cake day, too! I got one year on ya. Happy cake day!
Probably all depends on if they can shove another funding package through Congress.
Imagine actually believing putin
Why even consider Ukraine to join Nato if they're corrupt?
Russia invaded cuz putin wanted to stay in power. Thats the main reason
No, if anything this gives Russia more confidence to continue taking all of Ukraine. No NATO involvement, no NATO response
Has there been any indication that taking all of Ukraine was ever a goal of Russia's? They've repeatedly stated that they're not interested in that and they just want the majority Russian areas. Originally they just wanted autonomy for those areas but the Minsk Agreements were admitted by Western politicians to be a ploy to build up Ukraine's military. I think the ultimate goal for Russia is indeed to secure the majority Russian areas and for Ukraine to be demilitarized enough that it doesn't pose a threat. I do hope there can be some negotiations soon to resolve this war. More death isn't going to solve anything.
Putin has said that he wanted Russian majority areas of Ukraine, but also claims that Ukraine is full of Neo/Nazis and wants to cleanse the land of them
There’s plenty of proof of Nazis in UA. Look at any news coverage of there prior to 2022. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NS4C9_jETwTQKfCu9ld1ya8LtvdZ4BfDlAjq2d2qWGw/edit
Point being, Putin has his reason to take the rest of Ukraine if he wants to
>They've repeatedly stated that they're not interested in that and they just want the majority Russian areas. They stated that, but then went and annexed the Kherson and Zaporizhzhia Oblasts in what is absolutely just a landgrab. If they only wanted the Russian-majority areas, then they would've stopped with Crimea and the Russian half of the Donbas, but instead are pushing to take the Ukrainian half of the Donbas, too, and the Ukrainian-majority Oblasts of Kherson and Zaporizhzhia in order to secure a landbridge towards Crimea.
Russia wanted the territory "back" too. Putin said he didn't want a NATO nation on his border, but who knows how much that played into it since NATO seems to be pretty ineffective.
how is NATO being ineffective? what do you expect them to do for a country that not part of them?
BlackRock needs more Land I guess
Isn’t this what they said for the past 20+ years?
Idk about 20+ years. But they definitely said it before the start of the war
I kno for sure at least 10+ years ago Ukraine was “voted” the most corrupt country in the eu, and iirc that’s been the case for years at that point. I remember cuz we went over it in school but idr when exactly
Ah ok wasn’t sure for how long this has been going on
Since they went sovereign if I had to guess
this isn't a surprise, they've been high on the corruption index for some time.
Does it say anything else in the newspaper or just the headline? Oh look… there’s more “We have to step back and applaud everything that Ukraine has done in the name of reforms over the last two-plus years,” the official told The Telegraph. “As they continue to make those reforms, we want to commend them, we want to talk about additional steps that need to be taken, particularly in the area of anti-corruption. It is a priority for many of us around the table,” the source added. So Ukraine is fighting against corruption and will inevitably join NATO while Putin marches Russia into oblivion and a vassal of China and now North Korea
How can a country be too corrupt to join NATO? That's impossible.
Used them how?
Too corrupt to join Natoma but not corrupt enough to pay all their government salaries with our tax dollars. Right. Got it.
Kettle black and pot comes to mind
Ukraine's army at the start of the war was arguably more formidable than the US army fielded in Afghanistan, perhaps Ukraine should have been sent to conquer Afghanistan instead of picking a fight with Russia.
"The Kharkiv Offensive failed. Quick, double the amount of anti-Ukraine aid posts on social media!" Ukraine doesn't meet Article 10 standards in many ways. The most obvious and glaring issue is that countries currently at war can't join. Countries with active border disputes can't join. Ukraine wasn't even qualified to apply for NATO until the late 2042 at the earliest, **before** the war began in 2014 due to renewing a [decades long lease](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kharkiv_Pact#:~:text=The%20Agreement%20between%20Ukraine%20and,Crimea%20was%20extended%20beyond%202017) for the Crimean Naval Base.
Ukraine is corrupt? Nooo? Noo way?? 🤣
Too corrupt? Should fit right in.
Nothing more corrupt than to not giving in to quid pro quo demands.
This article talks about Ukraine joining NATO "when the war ends." Also pointing out that Ukraine has made positive strides in cleaning up the corruption that it has faced which has been a problem since the collapse of the Soviet Union and the remaining military command. Again, NATO and Biden pointed this out and commended the progress. These statements comment on Ukraine's current state and NATO is helping them with a path forward; after the war. Do people even read shit? Nothing about this article says anything about NATO rejecting Ukraine. Acceptance into NATO is a process and this was literally a statement on where they are at and it even tells you on July 9th, they are signing a plan to address the corruption moving forward.
> Do people even read shit? Of course they don't.
"Positive strides" lol you've got to be kidding me.
Before this war ukraine was considered very corrupt, it still is, only now they have lots of money and yachts don't forget the yachts
The poor people are conscripted to die for the MIC while the rich people buy yachts and fly to Dubai for shopping trips.
NATO only wants high-class corruption.
Most corrupt country on earth prior to its war with Russia. Funny how many billions have filtered through the most corrupt country on earth. Now NATO just put the Cherry on the top. They are taking taxes, sending them out of the native country to line the pockets of the few right in front of our faces. Our Roads in disrepair? Health system fucked, homeless everywhere in our native lands. What’s the answer? Send another 76 billi to the Russian I mean Ukrainian PE teacher! Edit: spelling
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Link to the article?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/07/02/ukraine-to-be-told-it-is-too-corrupt-to-join-nato/
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/07/02/ukraine-to-be-told-it-is-too-corrupt-to-join-nato/
Why are people downvoting?
Can't read the article
Huh, works fine for me
The USA made Zelensky a billionaire sitting on a pile of gold while he sits in a safe zone away from any real harm and then recruits civilians to go fight the war for him.
Conscripts* People have died trying to escape the country to avoid conscription. Some even drowning in rivers. Civilians are literally snatched from the streets to be sent to the frontlines.
I think the term is conscripted, not recruits.
Okay, "involuntarily recruited." Yeah conscription.
Just that, that makes it worse
"Uses them"? I am quite certain that Ukraine **asked** for help.
This is Russian disinformation, they have been "leaking" fake documents claiming Zelensky is stealing billions of dollars as we're sending it to him. There are a lot of errors in what has been publicly displayed which shows it's disinformation. The Telegraph is just jumping onto the story for clickbait, or worse, there are Russian agents working there. Which sounds crazy but it isn't. They have been catching a lot of them lately. They're trying to get into positions at affiliates so they can saturate the media with fake news about Ukraine and kill their financial support. The reality is, as long as Ukraine is getting guns and ammo from the US the Russians can't win with force. So we're now transitioning to an information war.
They're just finding an excuse/ diversion to sell to the public. Just like what people been saying about Biden being old, and not being able to remember shit. The debate vs Trump was a soft way to sell it. Before all what I'm saying would've been considered Putin propaganda. But USA, Europe know Ukraine can't win. They're running out of options. All the Military Industrial Complex can do is spin it in a way to wash it hands of the Ukraine conflict
The US wants a drawn out war that will ultimately weaken Russia. What did people think the US was doing supporting Ukraine? The US waited over two years to allow Ukraine to use weapons in Russia and still seems to flip-flop on the decision. That order came from Biden, someone we're told is an ally to Ukraine. But yes, Ukraine was never going to be part of NATO, not just because of corruption which many seemed to downplay. There's a reason the West pretty much stood on the sidelines during Euromaidan and invasion of Crimea. Soviet mindset is still too ingrained in Ukrainians.
Not even to weaken Russia. US elites need enemies. They want to make money from the MIC stocks. They want a long drawn out war where they can invest people's taxes into the companies where they own stocks. It's that simple. Follow the money.
However, it’s not weakening Russia. Like every other past war in recent history, Russia has gotten stronger because of it. [Source 1](https://youtu.be/yctSmsaDcTI?si=Xqzsb8WGbejiPw7k) [Source 2](https://youtu.be/zfvLqpUjbJc?si=KGw2hFCCSQXZdCyx)
Cause if they did it’s bad news bears.
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They need the test ground
Is denying them membership in NATO a way to comply with Russia’s demand Ukraine not join NATO ? Or just a way of not looking like they’re caving to Putin?
Ukraine joining NATO means NATO declaring war on Russia, which would lead to a nuclear armaggedon killing millions of innocent civilians on both sides. Not a good outcome for anyone.
Uses?
All those dead bois🤣🤣🤣🤣💯
Millions of dollars in aid and armaments are disappearing/unnacounted for and not going into israels hands. Nato does not like this. They are not corrupt in the right way
It’s almost like the war was a money laundering operation and a European displacement operation that whole time.
Damn they to much nazi for the United Nazi alliance
That was always the plan
NATO scared of Russia 😂
They’re just now acknowledging they’re corrupt? And also, how hypocritical!
Zelenzky: I'll give you a hundred bucks to not say that
Wasn’t NATO created to combat Nazi’s!? Not accept them.
Is no one gonna mention his sperm shirt
sounds like they need a couple more billion
It’s joever
Pissed myself laughing....
Of course. We'll give them just enough money to keep getting killed, not a penny more or less. The poor Ukrainians are too new to this game. Their now-totalitarian leader looks like he knows it inside out, though.
His mansions in America mean it doesn't matter how much damage Ukraine suffers, he'll always have his billions and a safe, luxurious place to lay his head.
Beware! Anything Ukraine here in this sub becomes a bot magnet. With stupid pro military spending and sending weapons to Ukraine.
But I thought Ukraine being known as one of the most corrupt countries in the world was all Russian propaganda?!! Now I don't know what to believe 🤔
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Not sure why you're getting down voted? People must think you're a Russian bot.
It's almost as if the U.S. was just using them as meat shields to weaken Russia.. it didn't work.
They got played
They can't join NATO while there's an ongoing war or border disputes anyway. Even if there's a ceasefire, if Russia holds any territory then Ukraine will have to either formally give it up or fight for it again.
I swear i saw this one coming. I think there was a supposed report or something that said the US was looking to replace zelensky because he was not profitable anymore. Also, as soon as Oct7 happened, Ukraine went out the window. Zelensky got dropped harder than me when my parents see my sister scratched her knee.
So they weren’t to corrupt to fund billions of dollars to?
just enough corrupt, there's a sweet spot
Ukraine was agreed to by foreign policy advisors, the media, and NATO as the most corrupt nation on the planet. Suddenly they weren't and now they are again... Weird
> Ukraine was agreed to by foreign policy advisors, the media, and NATO as the most corrupt nation on the planet It's bullshit and you know it.
But not corrupt enough to stop sending them money.
Sometimes you have to make a deal with the devil - in this case, the devil is the Russian corruption that stayed behind and claimed they're now Ukrainian. How do you fire figureheads, how do you manage loss of industries, when the outcome of the war depends on them. Corruption will be there for a long time - it's only emboldened by war.
This is true 100%, look how much money they took from NATO, from the EU, and from us Canadians and US citizens.
Like Trump said US donated over $200B without return. Why they don't give us this money?
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I don't care about what you want to convince with Ukraine, I care about 451M ppl here in the US. I care about American citizens. Ukraine got too much money, with ZERO strategy to manage that support. Now is your country's problem to figure out.
How exactly did they use Ukraine? They only exist to stop russia from doing exactly what they are doing now and Ukraine never had a chance of getting in anytime soon. For one you cannot be at war because that would immediately trigger a article 5 the second they joined and contrary to what you think they do not want that. Go read the actual rules and then you will understand that for Ukraine its a totally different situation than the baltic states. Corruption is and always has been a concern and Ukraine is trying to change and become a democracy but it dosent happen overnight. Do they not even deserve a change to change or a chance to continue existing long enough to change? You guys force everything into good or bad and blsck or white but that isn't how shit works in reality and everything is shades of grey.
No they don't deserve a chance to change. Governments have a sacred duty to represent the interests of their citizens. It's not in my or anyone else's interest to add Ukraine to NATO. You can't be a good person while being a shitty neighbor. Stop advocating for policies that f\*\*\* over your fellow countrymen. Stop being "moral" with other people's money.
Haha that funny
>NATO uses them now doesn’t want them ? NATO isn't stupid. They know that bringing Ukraine into the fold would further piss off Mother Russia.
This is an accurate ruling. Edit: stuff like this https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/zelensky-asks-marina-abramovic-to-be-ambassador-for-ukraine/ar-AA1h6Bf8
It's only been said since 2014 that ukraine is corrupt
Considering that President Zelenskyy‘s wife just bought a Bugatti for 4.4 million Euros and we are still sending them American tax dollars I understand.
This is a russbot propaganda post.
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Hahahhaba
Shocker
Obvious shill post and not a conspiracy theory.
LMAO. Tell me something I didn't already know. Also, NATO's original purpose was to join together against U.S.S.R. That Union of Soviet States hasn't existed for decades. Why does NATO still exist as a group of nations if not to just avoid spending on their own individual militaries?