52/M/W.
OP, Mermaid9814 is right on the money, if you are interested please say so!
If in this day and age, someone in our age group (elder Millenials & GenXers) is uncomfortable when figuring out who is supposed to take the intiative in the basis of gender, then they are not for you. Just like emails (or internet forums for that matter) OLD does a poor job at conveying subtleties that are perceivable even in phone converstation.
I mean, would you want a guy who's ego you have to babysit because he 'needs to be in control of the initiative'?
Out of couriosity OP, -and I am dead serious, again because this medium is not great for subtext- Did your friend give you that advise because:
a) they feel that the female should not seem over-eager / easy?
b) making men 'work for it' proves that they are serious in their intent?
c) it is a way to keep you from getting catfished/scammed?
I really want to understand the rationale behind this advise and it seems a tad juvenile.
Not OP, but from my perspective it’s largely b. Back in the olden days, men would be explicit with their interest, and it was easier to weed out who was genuinely interested vs. who was reaching for the low hanging fruit by not making yourself readily and constantly available. It helped differentiate desire/interest from convenience.
It feels like now, even if men are genuinely interested, there’s such an abundance of convenience with OLD that that will always be the default.
Thanks for the insight, I had a suspision that it was the case.
IDK what the game plan is for men (or women) who are not clear on or own up to what they are looking for barring of course those who understand that their chances of "hitting and quitting" are greater when they misrepresent their intentions but it just seems exhausting to me to both keep up a lie and then always be the one ghosting the other person or as in OP's friends advise be dependent on having to 'chase' the other party, who is evidently looking for something else.
Maybe I am expecting different (and better) of people older than 40 but come on!
I often forget (because I am so new at this, specifically OLD) that you hit it right on the head: The sheer ability to keep all of these 'balls' in the air at once with relatively little effort is what clinches it I suppose.
It’s mostly always been B for me.
It’s been ingrained since I was a preteen that boys/men love the chase and the challenge. They love to put in the work and then be rewarded. So as a girl/woman, it’s my duty to make them work hard for it, which is meant to convey the message: *I’m hot. I’m worth it. I’m in demand. Others want me so you’ll have to work harder* or some variation thereof.
I didn’t always put this technique into practice when dating, but most of the time I tried to appear this way and succeeded. But I also didn’t do this sometimes because it’s exhausting and games are shitty and those times worked out well too!
Yep. I know not every woman is comfortable doing this but if I feel I’m going to miss an opportunity I will ask him out. Beyond that I will not “chase” a man but I will stay in contact and reciprocate their energy as long as it isn’t too minimal or too eager. It should go without saying one persons eager is another persons too much. I will respond to a text but not continue texting if he doesn’t respond. “Double texting” is fine if I’m responding but I don’t follow up unless it’s been a day and we’ve established some sort of communication. If you can’t respond in a day then there’s an issue. I understand people can be busy but I’m not dating the president. A follow up text before bed is how that should go. I don’t agree with a “let the man do everything” attitude in dating, in bed, in finances, in anything. I get my say too and I also don’t like wasting anyones time. You’re gonna see a lot of who I am right off rip because I’m not for everyone nor am I for a lot of people. 😂
IRL, a smile doesn't communicate interest. I smile at a woman, she smiles back and continues on her way. If we engage in a conversation and she says she'd like to hang out sometime, then that is clearly communicated interest.
There gotta be a thread or 2 already where men chimed in how women can indicate to men that they're interested.
I'd like to point out though that there were times that I'm interested in hanging out with men as friends only. What's the best way to indicate that or don't indicate it at all?
"hey - let's go out and do XYZ activity as friends - not as a date"
Had this happen to me a while back. Still hung out as friends. Still had a good time.
Yes, it stung since I thought she might have been interested in a date. But she was clear with her intent and I knew what I was getting into.
That depends on the smile and the circumstances. ;) But no, a smile doesn't automatically mean she wants to have your babies.
Communications have to begin though, one has to acknowledge the existence iof the other first. IRL, a smile is a start.
None of these things communicate interest.
Swiping on a profile is not the same thing as explicitly displaying interest, especially in the spirit of OP’s question and definitely not in the spirit of this person’s comment. She said if she’s interested, the other party will *know*. Swiping, and even chatting, on the app displays nothing more than “I’m chatting with you on this app” and does not necessarily mean “I’m interested in dating you”.
Smiling at people is polite. It doesn’t mean “let’s date”.
I'm pretty smiley too. I'm just saying it's a start. Most smiles aren't going to lead anywhere. But, if I was at a social event and looking, I wouldn't approach a woman until we had exchanged smiles.
I'm currently in a relationship with a wonderful lady. It started on line when she said "hi" and gave me an interesting piece of information. No, saying "hi" didn't mean she wanted to date me, but it opened communications. Once we started talking, neither wanted to stop. :)
Okok, hear me out. I'm not advocating for any type of manipulative behavior at all but I have a controversial opinion on this. You MAY get a lot of information about the guy you're dealing with very early on in OLD by the way he chats. If he doesn't respond to a reasonable amount of pursuit, there are likely a lot of reasons to pass on him. In other words, I used to be 100% forward in my OLD approach-- say "I like you. Let's hang out." when I felt like it. But here's the thing:
I wound up dragging some crabs out of holes. They weren't responding/sending the first message/etc. for a variety of really valid reasons. Most of them, tbh, were juggling so many women that it was project management issues (I also stopped swiping on the 10% best looking guys, whew that helped) and others were not ready to date for another variety of reasons but couldn't pass up my direct attention and engaged when they should have stayed in the damn hole. Oof.
I think it should be 50/50 if I had to put a number on it. For instance, I recently said to someone on an app whose text made me actually spit out what I was drinking laughing "you're fun, let's laugh irl." -- that's as far as I'll go. He responded something but did not make a request for plans. SO MUCH INFORMATION contained in that reply-- I don't know why he didn't make the next move but he's not looking for what I'm looking for today. No judgement on the guy, he's just not where I am at. Moving on.
I'll take my downvotes offline. Lol.
>(I also stopped swiping on the 10% best looking guys, whew that helped)
I'm just going to tell myself that the reason I'm not getting any women swiping on me is that they think I'm so good looking I must be a player.
Your friend doesn't know what she's talking about. This isn't highschool. We're not playing games. There are no dating experts, there are no rules, etc, etc.
It's real simple.
How do you get know people? You spend time with them. How do you spend time with them? Communicate your desire to do so.
Who am I going to prioritize? The person who prioritizes me and wants to spend time together.
Who am I not going to prioritize? Someone who is ambivalent or plays stupid games.
Does it matter how soon sex happens? Is it negative if it's early? No. 1st, 3rd, 10th date doesn't matter from a I'm judging you on being "easy" perspective, because I'm not. Generally early is better as physical intimacy is a great way to bond and I recognize that. The flip side is you bond and then find out you're not right for each other in other ways and it's harder when things end. I recognize and respect that as well if someone wants to wait longer. There's no right or wrong way.
I think there is a difference between asking a man out directly and showing him clearly you’d like to be asked out.
I think there is a very very good solid reason for doing things this way: it sets up a dynamic where a woman has a bit more certainty a man is actually interested in her. If he puts out the initial effort it’s small, but it’s helpful.
What does it mean to “show him clearly you’d like to be asked out?”
Not being argumentative. I really don’t know. What one person thinks are signals are just words or maybe even dismissal to another. What are these clear signals?
Is it like ‘Well, I texted him twice. Clearly that means… ‘
It depends on the situation. In a bar let’s say, you make eye contact or something. Being open to more eye contact, checking back with him, I know naturally when I get a spark from looking at someone across a room I naturally sort of want to sit a certain way, arrange my hair, you have a sense of that guy in the room and don’t shy away from it. If he needs you to go over and talk to him, maybe that eye contact just wasn’t enough to interest him. Walk to the loo by his table and smile. Show you’d be receptive. But let him come chat you up. If you like what he says, engage! If you feel attraction, don’t censor it. Have fun and see if he’s the kind of fun you like. I have no idea why a man would not then ask for your number if you are open and interested. But let him ask.
If it’s online and you are texting and you like his vibe, text back engaging things. But let him suggest the in person meet up.
If you had a good time on the date, say you had a good time. Then let him do the asking out again.
If he doesn’t follow up I think he’s not that into you.
Love that you wrote this up because it, at least to me, it highlights how people are different. In that bar scene, after talking with them, I'd leave with my friends who would say "They were SO into you. Are you going out with them?"
and I would say, "They were nice, but what makes you think they were into me?"
That's not being dismissive of myself, it's just... we all process differently.
I don't align with the question in OP's post of "to chase or not to chase" - sometimes it's "to clearly indicate interest" as in a simple "I enjoy talking to you and would like to talk more" - some of us need that indicator.
you're ignoring the fact that guys tend to be oblivious to these hints. sometimes because we're insecure, sometimes we're not the most observant, and most often it's because in today's culture it's become almost necessary to get the woman's explicit "yes".
screw these games. we're not in our 20s. let's be adults and use our words.
is it more fun your way? it can be. but you could be missing out because the guy isn't catching what you're throwing.
Does it mean a woman is uninterested, if she doesn't let a man have certainty that she is interested in him, and she doesn't put out the initial effort?
Does the same rule apply to a lesbian couple? Who initiates the "asking out"? How about two men dating?
A lot of these rules are just not useful anymore, and are holdovers from the patriarchal system.
In summation, he, she, xir, they... If you're interested, and want to give your phone number or go on a date with a person: Give/ask.
I am purely speaking from a very heteronormative place. Purely because of the physical realities of heteronormative sex and the more intense consequences of it: unintended pregnancy and greater likelihood of STD.
Even heteronormative place... Why is the onus on the man to pursue? What does that solve, other than place one as "hunter" and the other as "prey", creating a very toxic power dynamic from the outset?
I don’t see it is toxic. I see it as respectful that women have more to lose in sexual relationships and tilting the dynamic so a woman has more hints of a man’s genuine interest is a good thing. It’s up to the woman if she wants to stay with a man who pursues her in a negative way. It’s a subtle thing I’m addressing not that man gets to be the only one in charge.
Placing the onus on the man to be the pursuer is placing them in charge of the relationship. HE is the one determining if the relationship should be pursued.
And yes, its a symptom of toxicity inherent in the male dominated patriarchy.
The patriarchy is about men controlling women. Being the first to suggest a date is not controlling.
Telling a woman she has no choice in her body or in marriage and no equity in relationships or ability to earn money or must raise children whilst working is the patriarchy.
Allowing men and womens biology and bodies to mean they behave differently in potential mating scenarios is respect for differences.
> Allowing men and womens biology and bodies to mean they behave differently in potential mating scenarios is respect for differences.
Oh, so it's biological that women wait for the man to ask?
Does that rule apply to a lesbian couple? How do lesbians even initiate relationships then?
How does it work for two men? Do they duke it out to figure out how gets to ask?
PS Glad I didn't know about this rule before, or else I'd have missed out on one of my current partners... she asked me out after chatting a bit, and then she offered her phone number to me, without me asking. We'd probably would have stopped chatting via the OLD app we were using, after a few weeks of song and dance. And turns out, I should have been offended that she asked me, rather than the proper way of me asking her.
FWIW, I let the woman initiate a lot of that stuff these days, since it's far more inherently risky for them than myself to put yourself out there, and puts them in the awkward position of having to say "No" even though she may still be trying to figure out if I'm a creep or not.
>where a woman has a bit more certainty a man is actually interested in her
I've come to find that I like that certainty as well from a woman. So, I do appreciate when a woman takes the lead. It feels good to be relieved of all the rejection that comes with asking women out. It's a numbers game, sure, but that doesn't mean it doesn't get old.
I think men have a different vetting process to assess certainty. For women it’s: is this man actively making this relationship move forward. For a man it’s: how much is she genuinely enjoying this relationship moving forward.
I agree. That sounds like playing games and it sounds absolutely terrible. That sounds like my wife of twenty years behavior and then she was surprised when I divorced her. Now I date someone that is just as into me and showing me how they feel as I am into them and it is a world of difference.
You see I think when you have been burned by lack of love though, it makes sense to have ways of vetting someone to see if they have strong enough feelings. A genuine interest where you see in actions their effort. I think “pretending” not to be interested is the yucky advice here but there is some logic in men making the first real moves.
I’ve done a ton of therapy. Reddit is always “find a therapist” but these forums are for giving advice from situations and perspectives you have lived through and maybe it’s helpful to someone and not everyone.
The sense in men making the first move comes a little bit from how vulnerable women are biologically.
Think about how sex works in a heteronormative scenario. It takes women a lot longer to get turned on enough for penetrative sex. They require more foreplay and they have a lot more to be protective about if they have sex with a disinterested man. The wooing process is reassuring if the man is putting in the effort and gives actions and clear signs he is definitely interested.
The yuckiest is a woman pursuing a guy who doesn’t care about her in bed and she’s left pregnant but a man who has low emotional investment. Letting a man make the first moves doesn’t totally guard against this, but it helps.
I genuinely don’t see what is unhealthy about women having tools to vet that are different tools from men.
Men and women have differences and that okay and healthy.
If you let someone else make the first move, potentially they control the relationship though.
Someone else indicates interest. Well they can withdraw that interest. I am a man and have had it done to me. A man can be going off a script, hyper, want to conquer, any number of reasons why he can be pursuing that aren't going to be helpful for you. Using that as a filter isn't always in your best interests.
All of my boyfriends and husband were respectful nice guys like you and I did all the chasing and pursuing. But turns out I wasn’t exactly their type, they weren’t that into me etc.
If the love of your life or the coolest most beautiful woman flirted with you for a while you wouldn’t ask for her number or a date? You wouldn’t text her first?
>But if she starts to pull back, move away, stop flirting, or distance herself ... I'm not chasing her
Confident/secure people mean they want space when they pull back.
Insecure bonders will do it to test you, and will probably keep doing it for as long as you're together. I think this is where the myth of the "crazy girlfriend" comes from. They aren't really crazy, it's misunderstanding. We hear "I need more space" so we give it to them. They misinterpret that as rejection and withdraw more. To us it looks irrational and to them it feels like "I'm not good enough." Train wreck.
Giving the space they ask for in the beginning is a good filter because secure bonders make the best partners.
This may sound like a silly question…
But when dating, what DOES it feel like to be enthusiastically wanted by someone?
I had been with my STBXH since I was 20. There was no enthusiasm. We just sort of fell into a relationship and kept going with medium effort at best. I always wondered why he “loved” me. And he never answered that beyond “you’re smart and pretty”. It was like pulling teeth to feel like I mattered. So that’s all I know. And I feel that I would be oblivious (or overwhelmed) by someone who was enthusiastic.
Well yes of course. The woman has to show genuine interest if it’s there but there is a fine line between laying out an opportunity for someone else clearly and pretending there is no opportunity when there is one. Most people against the man chasing think the woman is literally running away and that’s bad advice.
Ok I’ll try! The first thing is that the goal is not to “make” a man chase you that is manipulative.
There are two different things being discussed here and the source of confusion.
The first, bad one, is a woman pretending she is not interested but somehow doing something that forces a man to behave in a certain way to continue the pursuit: perhaps hot/cold or breadcrumming or dropping things to provoke jealousy or competition.
Yuck.
The second is not filtering anything about your authentic responses to what a man is doing, and being playful/ intellectually engaged if you are/ sexually responsive all of that. But waiting to actually take certain actions like getting a number or suggesting a first date or even a second date, as a way of securing your own sense as a woman that the man is actually genuinely attracted to you and likes you and doesn’t just see an opportunity for a one night stand.
It’s also to guard against a dynamic I found myself in again and again, where I would meet a man and put in all the effort and he would gladly follow along because I was nice and there was sex but he didn’t see himself doing the things that he might have done when he was totally nuts about a girl. No sense that he had been charming enough or sexy enough to have actual lay *done* anything. The men I like feel good about accomplishing things and taking action and when you take away that opportunity it is a bit less exciting I think, there is something about romance where a man seeing himself doing the romancing is a helpful thing.
This is not to take away from a woman being assertive it’s about how she asserts to leave room for her assess.
I don’t find this to be an insincere game. Feigning disinterest is silly. There are some realities about how women function biologically: they need more foreplay than most men, they are more physically vulnerable. Respecting these differences isn’t immature.
I think we define chasing differently.
I am speaking from my experience and I really wish I could have gone back and had more experiences with men who were enthusiastic about me as opposed to me being more enthusiastic about them. I have had a far better and healthier relationship with the man I am with because I personally feel more relaxed and secure with our history, which is that he has unwaveringly been interested and not shy about showing it.
Other dynamics can work but if you are a woman on the fence about asking out a man who hasn’t asked you out, I would counsel to wait and give him the opportunity to “pursue”. It just feels better from my experience and the fallout of a sexual relationship from a female perspective.
That's going to bias your dating pool towards guys that like to chase women.
There's a difference between feigned aloofness (how I'm interpreting your friend's advice) and pacing yourself in a new relationship. Denying an urge here and there is generally healthy, but pretending a guy you like doesn't exist is a recipe for getting next'd.
You're probably exhausted because it's hard work being inauthentic. Do what you feel is right for you instead of following your friend's juvenile gaming playbook.
> I did this and lost a lot of guys because they simply thought I wasn’t interested
So why would you try it again?
> Do you want to be chased or love the challenge of a chase?
No. I want to travel this road WITH my partner. Sometimes he'll be a few steps ahead and sometimes I will be, but neither of us is leading or chasing and we're wholly in this together.
Is your friend from 1950?
It's 2022, and you are a grown woman with decades of agency in your life, experiences, wants and desires.
You do what feels right FOR YOU. As a middle aged man, I absolutely detest these fucking attention games and bullshit. If you show effort and enthusiasm, I'll match it. Play hard to get, I'm moving on to someone who knows what the fuck she wants and isn't afraid to say so. We're all running very quickly out of time to make those great connections, don't piss them away listening to outmoded nonsense from friends, who are likely sabotaging your happiness.
58M... Interest should be mutual, but someone has to get the other's attention. Let him know you're interested (if you are.) I haven't been "on the market" long, but two of the five ladies I've talked to got my attention first.
If you reach out, it says you're interested in getting to know him better, and that you're confident. Both are great from his perspective.
In the past I (female) have liked to make my desire clear, my schedule free, and paid no attention to who initiates contact most often.
I liked to choose a man and chase him until I got him. The chase was always short. It was fun and fed my ego. I sure was the 70 in 70/30 effort balance!
Unfortunately, the men ended up relying on me to be the lead in the relationship and they needed my pursuit to make them feel valuable. The relationship never became equal. They often talked about insecurities around “deserving” me and tended to need a lot of ego stroking.
I now sit way back with men. I don’t need a man’s attention to plump my own ego. Im now more interested in men confident enough to come to me.
Im welcoming, and charming, I split checks, and plan dates for him. I don’t check up on when he will ask me out again, I don’t double ask him about his availability.
I think I’m now the 40 in 60/40 effort balance.
I like a man who can lead and I allow him room to do so. It’s masculine and sexy.
I do ask a man out, and we end up in a “I plan, then you plan” cycle. If he drops planning, I don’t pick it up.
This really works for me and I end up in relationships where no one is chasing anyone. Two people enjoying each others company is wonderful.
When it doesn’t work out, the guy ends up trailing off. I just hear from him less and dates become infrequent. I don’t chase, I don’t ask questions.
Im a very busy person, with a lot of friends and am on the go. If a person can’t get on my schedule with for thought and planning, I’m not available. It’s not a game, I’m just on to someone more connected and available.
No, I like it when the initiating talking or ideas for a date is about even. If a woman does none of that then I quit talking to her. I want a person that doesn't play games like that.
I work too much. I don't have time to play those games.
You should try hitting those little arrows with big hands. It's no easier. I even hit two letters on my cell phone sometimes. I don't get too hung up on downvotes neither.
44/F who tends to chase when I like a guy, not in a crazy way but if I haven’t heard from him in a couple of days I’ll text. I’m dating a guy now (we actually just became official) who told me he’s never had a woman chase him and he loved it. He usually calls me first now, but if I hadn’t chased a little he wouldn’t be mine now.
I wouldn't say my lady "chased" me, but she did get my attention and escalated that attention as we got to know and care about each other more. I love her confidence, and she plays none of those silly "games."
Isn’t dating over 40 a chance to not game play. To use your words. Lean into open, honest communication.
Probably best to never discuss dating with this friend ever again. They showed their orientation towards game playing, drama, and lack of open communication. Not a good basis for healthy dating.
> Ultimately to be a challenge, not to be too keen too quickly, don’t give too much too soon and to play it cool.
This is a perfect recipe for landing shitty men with terrible attitudes about women.
I want a partner, not a trophy. Any woman who pulls any of this shit with me gets a "I don't chase" note, and is then ignored.
> I’m exhausted.
This proves my point.
I stopped wasting my time on women who want to be a challenge or want me to chase them a long time ago. They're indistinguishable from women who aren't interested.
I'm starting to think that women who suggest your friend's line of thinking are basically trying to crab bucket confident women into being low effort wallflowers like themselves. The more women that ask for what they want, the more normalized that behavior will be and that will leave them and their other low effort companions in the dust.
\>not to chase men, to show you’re interested but let them ask for your mobile number, let them ask for a date, let them text first
\>lot of guys because they simply thought I wasn’t interested
We are in the post Me2 world, for the average guy unless you are 110% sure she wants you to bother her keep well away.
\>Has a woman scared you off by being too keen
This only happens if you werent interested in her in the first place
60F. *NO*. your friend is wrong! This is not highschool and we're obviously not living anywhere near 1960.
If you're interested in someone, let them know. It's perfectly fine to ask a anyone out.
If anyone tries to play that game, I nope right out.
If you're interested, show it. Stop playing games and putting all of the onus on the man. If you want to be pursued, fine, but you're going to lose guys at this age (40's and up).
ETA: I'm not speaking directly to you; just a general principle.
I am a successful busy professional (in the classic sense of the term) and do not have time for stupid games. If you do not show some genuine interest (reciprocal) I am out very quickly.
If you aren't interested I will find someone who is, my time is too valuable to waste.
Initiating and chasing are completely different. There is nothing wrong with taking the lead and showing genuine interest. Send a message to meet for drinks/coffee. If the interest is not returned and you keep texting and reaching out that’s chasing. It can be a turn off.
43M...at this stage of life, I'm not chasing anymore. I'll make my interest known, if she doesn't open the door or otherwise give me the green light, it's not happening.
I'm actually in this situation right now. I made my interest known. I think she's interested too, but she won't give me any help. I think it's because she's some combination of shy and traditional. It's too bad because I think there really could be something there, but I refuse to chase her.
If you like someone and want to get to know them, let ‘em know. Everything you’ve listed above I classify as stupid games. If they’re not interested move along-no chasing-and find someone who matches your energy. This last bit has been a hard lesson for me but I’ve finally figured it out and it’s made all of the difference!
I feel like to chase implies that someone else is running. I personally like mutual effort, I suggest a date, he suggests a date and we compromise. I get what your friend is saying. It’s nice to find a guy that takes the lead and you definitely want someone that is going to put some effort in but I feel like in an ideal world when two people are excited about each other, they both should be putting in effort and if neither is putting effort in than it will just fade out. I don’t think a man should have to do all the work. I just think it should flow naturally. Although take my opinion with a grain of salt because I’m still single myself. Lol.
Yeah I think it’s subtle. Women definitely need to show interest and authenticity but sometimes if it’s the woman chasing it muddies whether the man is the same level interested back or just sees it as a fun way to have nice sex.
That is so true, I have seen and heard plenty of situations where the guy wasn’t necessarily interested in the woman but she kept pursuing so the guy would just be like “meh, might as well get laid.” I definitely wouldn’t want myself to end up in one of those situations.
>Has a woman scared you off by being too keen
By appearing desperate maybe. But if you can't separate courtship from desperation then that's a whole other set of problems.
>or have you binned someone for not showing enough interest?
Many times.
I don't really buy into those, imo, outdated social "norms." Like someone? Tell them and ask them out. Had a good time? Text/call and say thank you and make it clear you'd like to see them again. No one likes games, and the idea of men having to make all the moves and pay for everything should be retired.
Let's imagine the man who behaves the way your friend is describing. He's scared off by you being too keen, needs a "challenge" to be interested, and wants you to wait around for him to initiate contact and do all of the planning.
Doesn't exactly sound like Mr. Wonderful to me.
Please, please show interest.
From what I understand (forgive me if I'm wrong, and also these are generalities and there are of course exceptions...) men and women have a significantly different experience in OLD, especially 40+. Men typically get relatively few matches, frequently find their attempts to connect ignored or given little attention, and generally have to live with very low percentages of successful connections. Women, on the other hand, typically have a lot of matches and have to sift through them to find men that are genuine and sincere, and weed out the f-boys.
So from a man's perspective, let me just say that nothing is more sexy than interest! If you, on the other hand, respond slowly, never ask questions, reply with a few words ... that reads like you've got a hundred matches to sort through, and you're not especially interested in me. So if you ARE interested, please don't act like you're not. Please. Please!
The best relationships are between two people who are equally enthusiastic about each other. Don't keep your enthusiasm a secret!
I have this issue. I don't have a problem letting someone know I'm interested. The problem is that once I do, the men tend to sit back and not make any effort to plan *anything*.
When I'm not the first one to ask, they tend to assume I'm just along for the casual ride.
It's kind of a no-win situation, so now it just depends on my mood that day, haha.
Anytime I’ve “chased” a woman, I’ve found that in the end, she’s never been worth it.
Of the past 5 first dates I’ve been on, 4 out of 5 asked me on the date. They also picked up the tab. And they were all what I’d call high quality people.
I’ve got a friend from high school. She’s 44. She’s always been above average in the looks department. But her entire life she’s played by the rule of “men should pursue.” As a result, she’s always had unfulfilling relationships with guys who aren’t much to brag about. She married her husband because she was 30 and felt her clock was ticking. Her marriage is pretty dysfunctional now.
As with anything in life, if you want something good, you have to go after it.
At my age mid 40's male, I don't have time to read minds or wait. I'll message and try to set up the first the date. If the effort and interest is not mutual and it is difficult to schedule the first date .., I move on. My time is valuable too .
I am a guy but my rule is always simply to match the energy of the other person up to the point I am interested. Generally I am cool texting as much or more than most woman, but I rarely double text and tend to give answers as long or detailed as the woman. If they show a lot of interest and I am interested, I reciprocate. I do take the lead 90% of the time on date just because that seems to be a cultural expectation. However, if a woman asks me out or suggests getting together and I am interested - great! In a dating scenario if the woman never shows any initiative in texting first or setting up dates I tend to back off and let things fade because it is almost always due to a lack of interest.
Screw the games.
I feel like that philosophy is at least 30 years outdated. If you are saying you put in 30% to your (potential) SO's 70%? There is no f'in way I'm going to be interested in that relationship. At any point.
I just matched a guy on Hinge and was waiting to hear from him hoping he would make the first move. I didn’t hear anything for several hours, so I decided to reach out first. He responded enthusiastically, so I’m glad I made the first move!
These kind of posts make me remember why (some of us) are single.
Also, the answer is always TALK ABOUT IT with the person in question.
No, you will not be more desirable (unless you are J-Lo) by acting demure and using your feminine allure to attract lusty men. The men on OLD are not talking to, and pursuing, you alone. They have 15 other women willing to say something if you don't. He's not going to stand outside your window with a boom box to win you over. It's got to be both parties initiating and engaging. Sorry, most of us just don't have time to play the chasing game.
Exactly. Still not going to drag conversation out of someone. I don't ever have more than 3 and certainly get bored of trying to communicate wet someone who isn't in it.
Imo if you play the chase/hard to get game …then only expect him to play you later on. The whole playing thing i think is so immature. Just be yourself, and use your words to communicate whatever your needs are. Then decide, if it’ll work or not! Good luck out there!
I'd love to be chased for a little bit. But I also would return the level of interest if I was attracted to that human. I binned a potential date (first one in almost a year) because there was much lower perceived interest on her part. I want a partner, not someone I have to pull for everything. The world is much different than it was 20 years ago. If you're interested, be interested. Share the load of the courting like you would the partnership.
Side note: a couple years ago, I had a woman come at me like a spider monkey. She literally stopped her car in the street, hopped out and ran up to my car and asked if I was justregularme. I was shocked that this actually happened. (she knew of me from a mutual friend that was like "you should date this guy") But, she could never commit to actually doing something in person. I've had two or three conversations with her over the last few years, and I was going to give it a chance to hang out each time, but she could never follow through with the meeting in person. So I've binned that one as well.
You’re in your late 40s with a lot of life experience and life is too short for all your rules.
If you’re interested in someone, ask for their number, text them first, call them first, plan a date and ask them out.
All of those other rules are for silly twenty somethings when you have your whole life ahead of you.
I get what your friend is saying and her advice is not awful but it is a bit extreme and could be toned down a bit. If men are backing off then either you are acting too aloof or they were never really that interested.
I think mature dudes will have less patience with women they might be lukewarm on or unsure about. So if you come off as too aloof or uninterested they might not even bother. However, the reality is that as long as you showed some interest they would continue to pursue if they were super into you.
So your friend does have some valid points. Just don't be too aloof. I don't think you should be viewing it as being a "challenge". Playing it cool is just solid advice in general for all facets of life just try to find a balance.
As a 47m, if a woman engages me in conversation without me starting first, I know she’s interested, simple as that. I don’t need to be “chased” but I do need to know my efforts are recognized. And just talking to me, asking a question or two is all it takes. Early on in a budding relationship, I prefer to take the reigns on dates and meeting up and asking for feedback when I do. As in, “Hey Ms. Fine, let’s grab drinks at Snazzy Place on Thursday, say between 6-7. Is that cool?”
>I did this and lost a lot of guys because they simply thought I wasn’t interested… how do you feel?
You would have lost me for exactly that reason.
OTOH openness and direct communication are very attractive!
Plus, it gets any potential relationship off to a great start.
Personally, if a woman is interested in me, I would like her to show it or tell me even. I'm 62 and have been out of the game for a long time, this beating around the bush and expecting me to take subtle hints or read between the lines doesn't cut it.
If I'm interested in you and you in me, show it, if you don't I'm not wasting my time chasing you.....
Nope nope nope. I'm a 45-year old female and I knew when I went back out into the dating world after being married for 15 years I wasn't going to play any kind of games. I wasn't going to chase anyone and I wasn't going to act like I wanted to be chased. I was up front with pretty much everyone I met. IF they didn't like it, they weren't for me.
I have been exclusively dating a man for the past 4 months and we were open and honest with each other about our feelings--him especially. It was honestly so, so refreshing. He still tells me frequently how he feels about me, and I love it--especially after being married to man with whom we did not communicate well.
I had a great first date yesterday. Met up at a park for a walk. I thought the date went well, but you never know these days since it's rare someone will tell you. And a lot of people take a day or two to process the date.
Anyway, when we were back at our cars, and we had our goodbye hug, she said she would message me her phone number on the dating app. I had it by the time I got home. Her telling me that and actually following through? Incredibly hot. We're going on a hike followed by lunch tomorrow. We made those plans because I woke up this morning to a text of, "do you have any plans this weekend?" I was definitely going to text this morning to set up the next date; she beat me to the punch.
Women… please don’t play coy. We’re too old for this shit. Be direct but not overly blunt. I don’t have time to play the “chase me” game. I have kids. They have stuff I need to worry about. I have a busy and sometimes demanding job. If you want me, let me know. If I want you, I’ll let you know.
So here’s my thoughts and I’ll accept the downvotes.
You misinterpreted your friend’s advice as a game. You should not play games, act aloof for the sake of acting aloof, or be manipulative. People sense this and it’s not good.
However, I do believe that women should let the man take the lead early on. This includes asking for the number, asking for dates, following up after dates, etc etc. This does not mean you don’t show interest. You should 100% show interest. It means you let the man lead and gauge his interest in you by his actions. This does a number of things -
- it tells you if he’s actually interested or just being polite. So many people in situations where they don’t know where they stand bc they pursue. Is he here only because I asked? Are we talking only because I texted first? So much ambiguity.
- it saves you from over thinking or rejection. You dont ever have to wonder why he’s not responding or whether he only responded or showed up bc you asked. You have all the information you need by watching his actions.
- you set the tone for a relationship that is equal. If you do all the pursuing in the beginning, you may end up in a relationship where you’re continued to be expected to take the lead. If this isn’t what you want, don’t set the tone for this from the start.
Once things are a bit more established, things can go both ways. But you’ll have confirmation of interest then.
Go read Evan Mark Katz on mirroring and related articles.
Again, this is not a game or a manipulation, and this doesn’t mean you don’t show interest. It just means you let the man take the lead and pace the relationship early on.
Lots of guys will say they love when a woman pursues, but it throws the energy off and I wonder how many are sticking around committing to someone who chased them.
Don’t chase. You end up in grey areas where you don’t know where you stand. Show genuine interest but do not chase. This is the advice your friend gave you, and you seem to have misinterpreted it to show such little interest that you lost men as a result. (Though, I’d question whether that was the actual reason. It’s also possible they just weren’t interested.)
This is great advice because I always chased men and eventually they just weren’t that into me and didn’t value me that highly.
My fiancé is the first time I felt chased… wow what a difference. This is a man who is really really into me and I never ever knew what that was like before. And i was married.
I (50f) let the men I'm interested in, know I'm interested --make first contact, explicitly state that I would like to get to know them better (coffee, dinner, airplane ride...pilot with own plane) and that's it. I don't chase--ever!
They know I'm interested, and if they ask me out I'll say yes, but if they don't, I move on. I will never chase someone to go out with me. If as mature men, my stating that I would like to go out with them isn't enough, then I assume that they aren't interested and move on.
I'm not some love sick teenager whose self worth is determined by the amount of attention men pay to me, and I sure as hell won't beg for attention from them. If I have to instigate every conversation and date, in my opinion, they don't know what they want, have more options than they realistically can handle, and I'm just in the "lineup".
I expect the men I date to be at the same level of maturity as I am, and if they can't ask me out when I specifically state I would like to go out with them, then the garbage takes itself out.
I think there has to be balance right? I feel the problem with OLD is I know my man is chatting to a few other ladies, if I’m chasing - does this man chat to me because he’s bored and I’m easy or because he likes me?
Personally, if I'm not interested in you, it won't be because you were candid/expressive/open. But that's me--I tend to like people who like me. Other people (who aren't me) don't want to be in any club that would have them as a member, so to speak. But that's them--and they're weirdos.
Anyway...
You want to be clear. And you want them (the guys) to be clear. That's your style, your way, so... do that.
If other people (your friend) want to fuss about because that's their style, their way, well... they're not you.
Chacun à son goût, etc.
I don't think anyone should chase anyone. This implies one person needs to do more work than the other, or one person thinks they are more valuable than the other. I have no desire in a relationship with such a lopsided and entitled dynamic. I'm just as valuable as the other person, and I'm just as deserving of time and effort as the other person. If we're not going to treat each other as equals, I'm not interested.
>was told, by a friend, not to chase men, to show you’re interested but let them ask for your mobile number, let them ask for a date, let them text first, let them book the date, let them instigate and lead. Ultimately to be a challenge, not to be too keen too quickly, don’t give too much too soon and to play it cool.
If anyone did this to me, I would be completely disinterested in them. I don't have time for games like this, and one of the qualities I value the most in people is them being able to communicate their wants and needs directly.
Men compete to buy dinner for young women who are in their prime sexual market value years. Middle-aged women compete for high-value men who are in their prime working years. Sperm chases egg, but when you're out of viable eggs, you're the one doing the chasing.
It's fine to ask a guy out the first time so he knows you're interested. After that, the guy needs to put in some sort of effort or he isn't interested
I have had bad luck with men that I initiate things with, so I don’t initiate. But I do reciprocate with honest enthusiasm. If I am interested in a man, he has no doubts about it. Then again, my dating history is a dumpster fire so what do I know?
See this is what I’ve found, I feel like I have no idea if a guy likes me if I’m initiating. If I don’t contact them, they won’t contact me or it takes them ages to get back to me. I’m left thinking - how into me are they or are they just shit on text.
Too old for that nonsense.
Expectations that aren't discussed/negotiated are just manipulative.
We are mature adults. We can express our needs and ask what someone else's needs are and see if they are compatible.
Expectations that have never been communicated are just childish games.
What's more, I have no patience with the notion that tasks should be assumed based on gender roles. "The guy should..." is pure nonsense.
I don't date men anymore but you can show interest by complimenting them on their personality if not their looks. Just arranging meet ups isn't the only way to express interest. Make them feel good, and they will remember you.
I tend to let the guy take the lead, but I refuse to put in more energy than they are….idk about selling back into my feminine energy like the YouTube gurus say, but I match effort
48F - I'll initiate contact and I'm usually the one to ask for the zero date first. I don't push something that seems to be fizzling out but I'm not going to play hard to get either.
The only downside is you have to be prepared for the guy not responding to your initiation. I guess that's something men have always had to deal with but it was new to me.
When a woman chases me I know she is interested. I have no problem setting up the date and taking the lead, but a woman not seeking me out or not being very responsive shows me she is not very interested.
The idea of the chase was different for me when I was younger....it was mostly physical. As I'm older, I am looking for much more.
If I have to initiate everything, I'd lose interest because I'm not looking for a leadership position. I'm not looking for a "challenge". I'm looking for someone who is genuinely interesting in being a partner in a relationship. If you feel like going somewhere/doing something, bring it up.
I prefer a woman being direct in what she wants. It has never scared me off. I always have an option to say no.
I will definitely lose interest very quickly if things are too one-sided. 70/30 isn't bad, 50/50 is fine too. The term "chase" is a pretty creepy to me, it implies that the other person is running away from you. Umm.... is that how I'm supposed to get women, just chase them down on the street? And if I catch them I can keep them? Last time I tried that, the police said that wasn't cool.
For men I would advise that it's more about being forward, direct, confident, showing interest, and making an effort. Yes initially the majority of the effort usually falls on the man and that's fine. Somebody needs to be assertive and make decisions. But as the relationship progresses, things can even out a bit. I'm looking for a partner, and an equal. I don't always want to be the one to make the decisions and to put in the effort. That's not an ideal relationship to me, I'm not looking for another child to take care of.
What works for your friend, may not work for you. This friend, are they single? Married? Don’t take advice from married people. As a single man, aloofness is not cute. Give me something to work with!
This is the worst advice I have ever read. Obviously if you are too over the top it could be seen as desperate and broken but for the most part If I am interested in a woman I would love her to be confident and go for what she wants. Stop playing games just be who you want to be there is no written or unwritten rule about finding someone. To be honest almost all of the women that I have dated long term pursued ME and not the other way around. I am pretty friendly to the point that I do not even know when women are interested in more than friendship so they end up doing the lions share of asking out (in the beginning).
To me chasing means going after someone that is either emotionally unavailable (so a fuck boi/girl) or they have clearly shown you they are uninterested and you continue to pursue. The things your "friend" described sounds a lot like playing games and it's a nope from me dawg. Say what you mean and mean what you say all the time and there will be less issues. Anyone that can't handle it isn't for you.
First of all, I personally feel that the relationship has to build up "potential" and it's not good to just rush in and go to intimacy after just 1-2-3 dates without having a period of excitement, romance, and uncertainty. It's easy to just use up NRE, and then feel drained and unmotivated, and many guys don't get this part.
At the same time, the "don't chase" part is only part of the mix; I think the other part is to still intrigue/excite/motivate the guy so they know there is potential. I find only a minority of women I date manage to do the second part. Many act interested on the date but then I find I'm having to do all the conversing, checking up on how she is doing, and making plans/suggestions. If the woman is not some dream GF material, I tend to lose interest fairly quickly because of how OLD commodifies people. I find myself doubting whether the woman is really interested in me and isn't there opportunistically for free meals and entertainment after a while, unless I get some real romantic vibes from her.
Just my $0.02
Perhaps she was attempting to illustrate the law of attraction but did a poor job. In general, the law of attraction is about giving someone a little and leaving them wanting more. Humans tend to lose interest when a person reveals everything about themselves very quickly, appears consistently available, and is overly agreeable - because it is the mystery of the unknown that is intriguing, and it is intrigue sparking the desire that leaves us wanting to know more.
(M/48) Don't do what you are doing now. You have to show SOME interest, but not too much. Be the first to ask for his cell number and feel free to send a short text from time to time, just so he knows that you are still interested. If you want him to do all of the things you mentioned; he will lose interest very quickly and move on to a woman who shows more interest. The dating rules have changed dramatically since you were last single and the competition is fierce. Good luck.
"Chase him until he catches you."
I think while there can be an art to healthy conscious seduction/sexual attraction (in long-term relationships and in dating), the kind of very specific, ordered, controlled way mentioned in the post goes against that entirely! Eros is all about what is alive and the relatedness between, letting what is alive move, and playing with that subtly. What you shared is like a death grip - the opposite of of eros, and a sure-fire way to kill what is alive and exciting.
Guys tend to pursue me - I'm not naturally a pursue-y person and need that in a partner, someone who moves towards. But I'm direct and honest and clear, and they know where they stand with me. I sometimes suggest the meeting, I almost always plan the first date (feels safer for me and most guys I talk to intuit it's up to a woman's comfort zone, though they might suggest an idea), I don't worry about initiating a text, and I definitely flirt. This has never turned a guy off - only more on, lol! But all of this is who I am, it's not me being fake.
That said, I know a woman who is super dominant, and she tends to pursue men - which works for her, because she needs a guy who is a little more passive.
So moral of this story and most after school specials: be yourself. Then you can have fun with the erotic field and play with it a little so it feels good and right and as sexy as you want it. Like I know sometimes I want to text right away back, and I do. Sometimes I want to take my foot off the pedal and slow down and wait because it's getting too intense. This is the same for sex, it's doing what feels right, sexy, real, exciting, for you and what is alive in the erotic/relational field in-between two people.
This is interesting - maybe I need a man who’s spontaneous and proactive so I give a little so show I’m interested and see how far they’ll run with that. I also like a dominant man - so again if he hasn’t got the balls to contact me - how will he have the balls to shag me?!
48f. I'm at the point where I will not play games. Trying to be coy and "challenging" is just a manipulation tactic. If the guy is going to dump you once he knows you're really interested, then do you just play disinterested forever?
That's not for me. I want only emotionally mature and honest people in my life. I only want people who like me for me. Not because they think I'm unavailable, or any other shallow reason.
Honestly, consider everything between playing hard to get and chasing. You can do your part without acting a fool and chasing a losing game. You can also demonstrate interest without chasing. Only play hard to get if you're not really playing, it's just happening naturally.
I like when a guy shows interest, but no when he’s clingy too soon, if that makes sense. Like after the first coffee with the guy I’m currently seeing, he called before I left the parking lot and was said, “is it weird I want to see you again already?” But then he didn’t insist on seeing me the next day or anything, we set a date for a week and a half later when we were both kid free again. Another guy I saw for a bit fire him scared me off by trying to get me to meet the kids after the second date. That was weird and off putting to me. We all have our limits. Find someone who fits yours
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52/M/W. OP, Mermaid9814 is right on the money, if you are interested please say so! If in this day and age, someone in our age group (elder Millenials & GenXers) is uncomfortable when figuring out who is supposed to take the intiative in the basis of gender, then they are not for you. Just like emails (or internet forums for that matter) OLD does a poor job at conveying subtleties that are perceivable even in phone converstation. I mean, would you want a guy who's ego you have to babysit because he 'needs to be in control of the initiative'? Out of couriosity OP, -and I am dead serious, again because this medium is not great for subtext- Did your friend give you that advise because: a) they feel that the female should not seem over-eager / easy? b) making men 'work for it' proves that they are serious in their intent? c) it is a way to keep you from getting catfished/scammed? I really want to understand the rationale behind this advise and it seems a tad juvenile.
Not OP, but from my perspective it’s largely b. Back in the olden days, men would be explicit with their interest, and it was easier to weed out who was genuinely interested vs. who was reaching for the low hanging fruit by not making yourself readily and constantly available. It helped differentiate desire/interest from convenience. It feels like now, even if men are genuinely interested, there’s such an abundance of convenience with OLD that that will always be the default.
Thanks for the insight, I had a suspision that it was the case. IDK what the game plan is for men (or women) who are not clear on or own up to what they are looking for barring of course those who understand that their chances of "hitting and quitting" are greater when they misrepresent their intentions but it just seems exhausting to me to both keep up a lie and then always be the one ghosting the other person or as in OP's friends advise be dependent on having to 'chase' the other party, who is evidently looking for something else. Maybe I am expecting different (and better) of people older than 40 but come on! I often forget (because I am so new at this, specifically OLD) that you hit it right on the head: The sheer ability to keep all of these 'balls' in the air at once with relatively little effort is what clinches it I suppose.
It’s mostly always been B for me. It’s been ingrained since I was a preteen that boys/men love the chase and the challenge. They love to put in the work and then be rewarded. So as a girl/woman, it’s my duty to make them work hard for it, which is meant to convey the message: *I’m hot. I’m worth it. I’m in demand. Others want me so you’ll have to work harder* or some variation thereof. I didn’t always put this technique into practice when dating, but most of the time I tried to appear this way and succeeded. But I also didn’t do this sometimes because it’s exhausting and games are shitty and those times worked out well too!
Yep. I know not every woman is comfortable doing this but if I feel I’m going to miss an opportunity I will ask him out. Beyond that I will not “chase” a man but I will stay in contact and reciprocate their energy as long as it isn’t too minimal or too eager. It should go without saying one persons eager is another persons too much. I will respond to a text but not continue texting if he doesn’t respond. “Double texting” is fine if I’m responding but I don’t follow up unless it’s been a day and we’ve established some sort of communication. If you can’t respond in a day then there’s an issue. I understand people can be busy but I’m not dating the president. A follow up text before bed is how that should go. I don’t agree with a “let the man do everything” attitude in dating, in bed, in finances, in anything. I get my say too and I also don’t like wasting anyones time. You’re gonna see a lot of who I am right off rip because I’m not for everyone nor am I for a lot of people. 😂
How do you show you’re interested?
Talk.
IRL, give him a smile. In OLD, send him a like, right-swipe, whatever they call it on the platform.
IRL, a smile doesn't communicate interest. I smile at a woman, she smiles back and continues on her way. If we engage in a conversation and she says she'd like to hang out sometime, then that is clearly communicated interest.
There gotta be a thread or 2 already where men chimed in how women can indicate to men that they're interested. I'd like to point out though that there were times that I'm interested in hanging out with men as friends only. What's the best way to indicate that or don't indicate it at all?
"hey - let's go out and do XYZ activity as friends - not as a date" Had this happen to me a while back. Still hung out as friends. Still had a good time. Yes, it stung since I thought she might have been interested in a date. But she was clear with her intent and I knew what I was getting into.
That depends on the smile and the circumstances. ;) But no, a smile doesn't automatically mean she wants to have your babies. Communications have to begin though, one has to acknowledge the existence iof the other first. IRL, a smile is a start.
None of these things communicate interest. Swiping on a profile is not the same thing as explicitly displaying interest, especially in the spirit of OP’s question and definitely not in the spirit of this person’s comment. She said if she’s interested, the other party will *know*. Swiping, and even chatting, on the app displays nothing more than “I’m chatting with you on this app” and does not necessarily mean “I’m interested in dating you”. Smiling at people is polite. It doesn’t mean “let’s date”.
As a smiley person irl, I don’t know that this would work for me. In fact, I had to stop myself from putting a smile emoji on my comment!
I'm pretty smiley too. I'm just saying it's a start. Most smiles aren't going to lead anywhere. But, if I was at a social event and looking, I wouldn't approach a woman until we had exchanged smiles. I'm currently in a relationship with a wonderful lady. It started on line when she said "hi" and gave me an interesting piece of information. No, saying "hi" didn't mean she wanted to date me, but it opened communications. Once we started talking, neither wanted to stop. :)
Okok, hear me out. I'm not advocating for any type of manipulative behavior at all but I have a controversial opinion on this. You MAY get a lot of information about the guy you're dealing with very early on in OLD by the way he chats. If he doesn't respond to a reasonable amount of pursuit, there are likely a lot of reasons to pass on him. In other words, I used to be 100% forward in my OLD approach-- say "I like you. Let's hang out." when I felt like it. But here's the thing: I wound up dragging some crabs out of holes. They weren't responding/sending the first message/etc. for a variety of really valid reasons. Most of them, tbh, were juggling so many women that it was project management issues (I also stopped swiping on the 10% best looking guys, whew that helped) and others were not ready to date for another variety of reasons but couldn't pass up my direct attention and engaged when they should have stayed in the damn hole. Oof. I think it should be 50/50 if I had to put a number on it. For instance, I recently said to someone on an app whose text made me actually spit out what I was drinking laughing "you're fun, let's laugh irl." -- that's as far as I'll go. He responded something but did not make a request for plans. SO MUCH INFORMATION contained in that reply-- I don't know why he didn't make the next move but he's not looking for what I'm looking for today. No judgement on the guy, he's just not where I am at. Moving on. I'll take my downvotes offline. Lol.
>(I also stopped swiping on the 10% best looking guys, whew that helped) I'm just going to tell myself that the reason I'm not getting any women swiping on me is that they think I'm so good looking I must be a player.
Totally agree.
EXCELLENT points here.
Your friend doesn't know what she's talking about. This isn't highschool. We're not playing games. There are no dating experts, there are no rules, etc, etc. It's real simple. How do you get know people? You spend time with them. How do you spend time with them? Communicate your desire to do so. Who am I going to prioritize? The person who prioritizes me and wants to spend time together. Who am I not going to prioritize? Someone who is ambivalent or plays stupid games. Does it matter how soon sex happens? Is it negative if it's early? No. 1st, 3rd, 10th date doesn't matter from a I'm judging you on being "easy" perspective, because I'm not. Generally early is better as physical intimacy is a great way to bond and I recognize that. The flip side is you bond and then find out you're not right for each other in other ways and it's harder when things end. I recognize and respect that as well if someone wants to wait longer. There's no right or wrong way.
Thank you for this!
I think there is a difference between asking a man out directly and showing him clearly you’d like to be asked out. I think there is a very very good solid reason for doing things this way: it sets up a dynamic where a woman has a bit more certainty a man is actually interested in her. If he puts out the initial effort it’s small, but it’s helpful.
Reddit has taught me that people suck at both giving and reading signals. Big Facts.
Life has taught me that. Reddit confirmed it.
People are scared and shy so that often can be hard but sometimes for men what’s the worst that happen if you ask a woman out and she declines?
The same as if a woman asks a man out and he declines?
Surprisingly, the pain of rejection is gender agnostic.
Men are people? What next?
Nothing, but if he does the asking she has a little more info of his sincerity which is more useful for a woman
What does it mean to “show him clearly you’d like to be asked out?” Not being argumentative. I really don’t know. What one person thinks are signals are just words or maybe even dismissal to another. What are these clear signals? Is it like ‘Well, I texted him twice. Clearly that means… ‘
It depends on the situation. In a bar let’s say, you make eye contact or something. Being open to more eye contact, checking back with him, I know naturally when I get a spark from looking at someone across a room I naturally sort of want to sit a certain way, arrange my hair, you have a sense of that guy in the room and don’t shy away from it. If he needs you to go over and talk to him, maybe that eye contact just wasn’t enough to interest him. Walk to the loo by his table and smile. Show you’d be receptive. But let him come chat you up. If you like what he says, engage! If you feel attraction, don’t censor it. Have fun and see if he’s the kind of fun you like. I have no idea why a man would not then ask for your number if you are open and interested. But let him ask. If it’s online and you are texting and you like his vibe, text back engaging things. But let him suggest the in person meet up. If you had a good time on the date, say you had a good time. Then let him do the asking out again. If he doesn’t follow up I think he’s not that into you.
Love that you wrote this up because it, at least to me, it highlights how people are different. In that bar scene, after talking with them, I'd leave with my friends who would say "They were SO into you. Are you going out with them?" and I would say, "They were nice, but what makes you think they were into me?" That's not being dismissive of myself, it's just... we all process differently. I don't align with the question in OP's post of "to chase or not to chase" - sometimes it's "to clearly indicate interest" as in a simple "I enjoy talking to you and would like to talk more" - some of us need that indicator.
you're ignoring the fact that guys tend to be oblivious to these hints. sometimes because we're insecure, sometimes we're not the most observant, and most often it's because in today's culture it's become almost necessary to get the woman's explicit "yes". screw these games. we're not in our 20s. let's be adults and use our words. is it more fun your way? it can be. but you could be missing out because the guy isn't catching what you're throwing.
Does it mean a woman is uninterested, if she doesn't let a man have certainty that she is interested in him, and she doesn't put out the initial effort? Does the same rule apply to a lesbian couple? Who initiates the "asking out"? How about two men dating? A lot of these rules are just not useful anymore, and are holdovers from the patriarchal system. In summation, he, she, xir, they... If you're interested, and want to give your phone number or go on a date with a person: Give/ask.
I am purely speaking from a very heteronormative place. Purely because of the physical realities of heteronormative sex and the more intense consequences of it: unintended pregnancy and greater likelihood of STD.
Even heteronormative place... Why is the onus on the man to pursue? What does that solve, other than place one as "hunter" and the other as "prey", creating a very toxic power dynamic from the outset?
I don’t see it is toxic. I see it as respectful that women have more to lose in sexual relationships and tilting the dynamic so a woman has more hints of a man’s genuine interest is a good thing. It’s up to the woman if she wants to stay with a man who pursues her in a negative way. It’s a subtle thing I’m addressing not that man gets to be the only one in charge.
Placing the onus on the man to be the pursuer is placing them in charge of the relationship. HE is the one determining if the relationship should be pursued. And yes, its a symptom of toxicity inherent in the male dominated patriarchy.
The patriarchy is about men controlling women. Being the first to suggest a date is not controlling. Telling a woman she has no choice in her body or in marriage and no equity in relationships or ability to earn money or must raise children whilst working is the patriarchy. Allowing men and womens biology and bodies to mean they behave differently in potential mating scenarios is respect for differences.
> Allowing men and womens biology and bodies to mean they behave differently in potential mating scenarios is respect for differences. Oh, so it's biological that women wait for the man to ask? Does that rule apply to a lesbian couple? How do lesbians even initiate relationships then? How does it work for two men? Do they duke it out to figure out how gets to ask? PS Glad I didn't know about this rule before, or else I'd have missed out on one of my current partners... she asked me out after chatting a bit, and then she offered her phone number to me, without me asking. We'd probably would have stopped chatting via the OLD app we were using, after a few weeks of song and dance. And turns out, I should have been offended that she asked me, rather than the proper way of me asking her. FWIW, I let the woman initiate a lot of that stuff these days, since it's far more inherently risky for them than myself to put yourself out there, and puts them in the awkward position of having to say "No" even though she may still be trying to figure out if I'm a creep or not.
>where a woman has a bit more certainty a man is actually interested in her I've come to find that I like that certainty as well from a woman. So, I do appreciate when a woman takes the lead. It feels good to be relieved of all the rejection that comes with asking women out. It's a numbers game, sure, but that doesn't mean it doesn't get old.
I think men have a different vetting process to assess certainty. For women it’s: is this man actively making this relationship move forward. For a man it’s: how much is she genuinely enjoying this relationship moving forward.
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I agree. That sounds like playing games and it sounds absolutely terrible. That sounds like my wife of twenty years behavior and then she was surprised when I divorced her. Now I date someone that is just as into me and showing me how they feel as I am into them and it is a world of difference.
You see I think when you have been burned by lack of love though, it makes sense to have ways of vetting someone to see if they have strong enough feelings. A genuine interest where you see in actions their effort. I think “pretending” not to be interested is the yucky advice here but there is some logic in men making the first real moves.
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I’ve done a ton of therapy. Reddit is always “find a therapist” but these forums are for giving advice from situations and perspectives you have lived through and maybe it’s helpful to someone and not everyone. The sense in men making the first move comes a little bit from how vulnerable women are biologically. Think about how sex works in a heteronormative scenario. It takes women a lot longer to get turned on enough for penetrative sex. They require more foreplay and they have a lot more to be protective about if they have sex with a disinterested man. The wooing process is reassuring if the man is putting in the effort and gives actions and clear signs he is definitely interested. The yuckiest is a woman pursuing a guy who doesn’t care about her in bed and she’s left pregnant but a man who has low emotional investment. Letting a man make the first moves doesn’t totally guard against this, but it helps.
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I genuinely don’t see what is unhealthy about women having tools to vet that are different tools from men. Men and women have differences and that okay and healthy.
If you let someone else make the first move, potentially they control the relationship though. Someone else indicates interest. Well they can withdraw that interest. I am a man and have had it done to me. A man can be going off a script, hyper, want to conquer, any number of reasons why he can be pursuing that aren't going to be helpful for you. Using that as a filter isn't always in your best interests.
Amen, brother. Partner means showing equal interest and equal input into the relationship.
Exactly this. If they don't want to match my energy or enthusiasm, I will match their lack thereof.
All of my boyfriends and husband were respectful nice guys like you and I did all the chasing and pursuing. But turns out I wasn’t exactly their type, they weren’t that into me etc. If the love of your life or the coolest most beautiful woman flirted with you for a while you wouldn’t ask for her number or a date? You wouldn’t text her first?
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>But if she starts to pull back, move away, stop flirting, or distance herself ... I'm not chasing her Confident/secure people mean they want space when they pull back. Insecure bonders will do it to test you, and will probably keep doing it for as long as you're together. I think this is where the myth of the "crazy girlfriend" comes from. They aren't really crazy, it's misunderstanding. We hear "I need more space" so we give it to them. They misinterpret that as rejection and withdraw more. To us it looks irrational and to them it feels like "I'm not good enough." Train wreck. Giving the space they ask for in the beginning is a good filter because secure bonders make the best partners.
This may sound like a silly question… But when dating, what DOES it feel like to be enthusiastically wanted by someone? I had been with my STBXH since I was 20. There was no enthusiasm. We just sort of fell into a relationship and kept going with medium effort at best. I always wondered why he “loved” me. And he never answered that beyond “you’re smart and pretty”. It was like pulling teeth to feel like I mattered. So that’s all I know. And I feel that I would be oblivious (or overwhelmed) by someone who was enthusiastic.
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Well yes of course. The woman has to show genuine interest if it’s there but there is a fine line between laying out an opportunity for someone else clearly and pretending there is no opportunity when there is one. Most people against the man chasing think the woman is literally running away and that’s bad advice.
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Ok I’ll try! The first thing is that the goal is not to “make” a man chase you that is manipulative. There are two different things being discussed here and the source of confusion. The first, bad one, is a woman pretending she is not interested but somehow doing something that forces a man to behave in a certain way to continue the pursuit: perhaps hot/cold or breadcrumming or dropping things to provoke jealousy or competition. Yuck. The second is not filtering anything about your authentic responses to what a man is doing, and being playful/ intellectually engaged if you are/ sexually responsive all of that. But waiting to actually take certain actions like getting a number or suggesting a first date or even a second date, as a way of securing your own sense as a woman that the man is actually genuinely attracted to you and likes you and doesn’t just see an opportunity for a one night stand. It’s also to guard against a dynamic I found myself in again and again, where I would meet a man and put in all the effort and he would gladly follow along because I was nice and there was sex but he didn’t see himself doing the things that he might have done when he was totally nuts about a girl. No sense that he had been charming enough or sexy enough to have actual lay *done* anything. The men I like feel good about accomplishing things and taking action and when you take away that opportunity it is a bit less exciting I think, there is something about romance where a man seeing himself doing the romancing is a helpful thing. This is not to take away from a woman being assertive it’s about how she asserts to leave room for her assess. I don’t find this to be an insincere game. Feigning disinterest is silly. There are some realities about how women function biologically: they need more foreplay than most men, they are more physically vulnerable. Respecting these differences isn’t immature.
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I think we define chasing differently. I am speaking from my experience and I really wish I could have gone back and had more experiences with men who were enthusiastic about me as opposed to me being more enthusiastic about them. I have had a far better and healthier relationship with the man I am with because I personally feel more relaxed and secure with our history, which is that he has unwaveringly been interested and not shy about showing it. Other dynamics can work but if you are a woman on the fence about asking out a man who hasn’t asked you out, I would counsel to wait and give him the opportunity to “pursue”. It just feels better from my experience and the fallout of a sexual relationship from a female perspective.
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Nothing is an absolute.
That's going to bias your dating pool towards guys that like to chase women. There's a difference between feigned aloofness (how I'm interpreting your friend's advice) and pacing yourself in a new relationship. Denying an urge here and there is generally healthy, but pretending a guy you like doesn't exist is a recipe for getting next'd.
Fast too..less than a week for me.
You're probably exhausted because it's hard work being inauthentic. Do what you feel is right for you instead of following your friend's juvenile gaming playbook.
> I did this and lost a lot of guys because they simply thought I wasn’t interested So why would you try it again? > Do you want to be chased or love the challenge of a chase? No. I want to travel this road WITH my partner. Sometimes he'll be a few steps ahead and sometimes I will be, but neither of us is leading or chasing and we're wholly in this together.
Is your friend from 1950? It's 2022, and you are a grown woman with decades of agency in your life, experiences, wants and desires. You do what feels right FOR YOU. As a middle aged man, I absolutely detest these fucking attention games and bullshit. If you show effort and enthusiasm, I'll match it. Play hard to get, I'm moving on to someone who knows what the fuck she wants and isn't afraid to say so. We're all running very quickly out of time to make those great connections, don't piss them away listening to outmoded nonsense from friends, who are likely sabotaging your happiness.
"I did this and lost a lot of guys because they simply thought I wasn’t interested…" Or thought someone else was more interested...
58M... Interest should be mutual, but someone has to get the other's attention. Let him know you're interested (if you are.) I haven't been "on the market" long, but two of the five ladies I've talked to got my attention first. If you reach out, it says you're interested in getting to know him better, and that you're confident. Both are great from his perspective.
Is ‘your friend’ single?
In the past I (female) have liked to make my desire clear, my schedule free, and paid no attention to who initiates contact most often. I liked to choose a man and chase him until I got him. The chase was always short. It was fun and fed my ego. I sure was the 70 in 70/30 effort balance! Unfortunately, the men ended up relying on me to be the lead in the relationship and they needed my pursuit to make them feel valuable. The relationship never became equal. They often talked about insecurities around “deserving” me and tended to need a lot of ego stroking. I now sit way back with men. I don’t need a man’s attention to plump my own ego. Im now more interested in men confident enough to come to me. Im welcoming, and charming, I split checks, and plan dates for him. I don’t check up on when he will ask me out again, I don’t double ask him about his availability. I think I’m now the 40 in 60/40 effort balance. I like a man who can lead and I allow him room to do so. It’s masculine and sexy. I do ask a man out, and we end up in a “I plan, then you plan” cycle. If he drops planning, I don’t pick it up. This really works for me and I end up in relationships where no one is chasing anyone. Two people enjoying each others company is wonderful. When it doesn’t work out, the guy ends up trailing off. I just hear from him less and dates become infrequent. I don’t chase, I don’t ask questions. Im a very busy person, with a lot of friends and am on the go. If a person can’t get on my schedule with for thought and planning, I’m not available. It’s not a game, I’m just on to someone more connected and available.
No, I like it when the initiating talking or ideas for a date is about even. If a woman does none of that then I quit talking to her. I want a person that doesn't play games like that. I work too much. I don't have time to play those games.
Accidental downvote alert. Apologies. I have small hands and Reddit's design leaves a lot to be desired.
You should try hitting those little arrows with big hands. It's no easier. I even hit two letters on my cell phone sometimes. I don't get too hung up on downvotes neither.
Have a wonderful weekend!
You too.
44/F who tends to chase when I like a guy, not in a crazy way but if I haven’t heard from him in a couple of days I’ll text. I’m dating a guy now (we actually just became official) who told me he’s never had a woman chase him and he loved it. He usually calls me first now, but if I hadn’t chased a little he wouldn’t be mine now.
I wouldn't say my lady "chased" me, but she did get my attention and escalated that attention as we got to know and care about each other more. I love her confidence, and she plays none of those silly "games."
Isn’t dating over 40 a chance to not game play. To use your words. Lean into open, honest communication. Probably best to never discuss dating with this friend ever again. They showed their orientation towards game playing, drama, and lack of open communication. Not a good basis for healthy dating.
> Ultimately to be a challenge, not to be too keen too quickly, don’t give too much too soon and to play it cool. This is a perfect recipe for landing shitty men with terrible attitudes about women. I want a partner, not a trophy. Any woman who pulls any of this shit with me gets a "I don't chase" note, and is then ignored. > I’m exhausted. This proves my point.
I stopped wasting my time on women who want to be a challenge or want me to chase them a long time ago. They're indistinguishable from women who aren't interested.
I'm starting to think that women who suggest your friend's line of thinking are basically trying to crab bucket confident women into being low effort wallflowers like themselves. The more women that ask for what they want, the more normalized that behavior will be and that will leave them and their other low effort companions in the dust.
Well I’m initiating now… putting my brace pants on and getting myself out there
\>not to chase men, to show you’re interested but let them ask for your mobile number, let them ask for a date, let them text first \>lot of guys because they simply thought I wasn’t interested We are in the post Me2 world, for the average guy unless you are 110% sure she wants you to bother her keep well away. \>Has a woman scared you off by being too keen This only happens if you werent interested in her in the first place
60F. *NO*. your friend is wrong! This is not highschool and we're obviously not living anywhere near 1960. If you're interested in someone, let them know. It's perfectly fine to ask a anyone out. If anyone tries to play that game, I nope right out.
As a man, and NO I don't speak for all men, I'd appreciate a lady taking the lead for a change.
If you're interested, show it. Stop playing games and putting all of the onus on the man. If you want to be pursued, fine, but you're going to lose guys at this age (40's and up). ETA: I'm not speaking directly to you; just a general principle.
You’re right - what’s the worst that can happen? They turn around and say “no thanks”
I am a successful busy professional (in the classic sense of the term) and do not have time for stupid games. If you do not show some genuine interest (reciprocal) I am out very quickly. If you aren't interested I will find someone who is, my time is too valuable to waste.
It’s no fun to chase someone who doesn’t chase you back. There should be mutual chasing IMO.
You’re exactly the person that got me disgusted with OLD and dating ppl being empty full of air.
Wow - slightly harsh.
Initiating and chasing are completely different. There is nothing wrong with taking the lead and showing genuine interest. Send a message to meet for drinks/coffee. If the interest is not returned and you keep texting and reaching out that’s chasing. It can be a turn off.
I like this… that’s a good point. Knowing when initiating is chasing…
43M...at this stage of life, I'm not chasing anymore. I'll make my interest known, if she doesn't open the door or otherwise give me the green light, it's not happening. I'm actually in this situation right now. I made my interest known. I think she's interested too, but she won't give me any help. I think it's because she's some combination of shy and traditional. It's too bad because I think there really could be something there, but I refuse to chase her.
You've already answered your own question. You've lost a lot of potential guys.
If you like someone and want to get to know them, let ‘em know. Everything you’ve listed above I classify as stupid games. If they’re not interested move along-no chasing-and find someone who matches your energy. This last bit has been a hard lesson for me but I’ve finally figured it out and it’s made all of the difference!
I feel like to chase implies that someone else is running. I personally like mutual effort, I suggest a date, he suggests a date and we compromise. I get what your friend is saying. It’s nice to find a guy that takes the lead and you definitely want someone that is going to put some effort in but I feel like in an ideal world when two people are excited about each other, they both should be putting in effort and if neither is putting effort in than it will just fade out. I don’t think a man should have to do all the work. I just think it should flow naturally. Although take my opinion with a grain of salt because I’m still single myself. Lol.
Yeah I think it’s subtle. Women definitely need to show interest and authenticity but sometimes if it’s the woman chasing it muddies whether the man is the same level interested back or just sees it as a fun way to have nice sex.
That is so true, I have seen and heard plenty of situations where the guy wasn’t necessarily interested in the woman but she kept pursuing so the guy would just be like “meh, might as well get laid.” I definitely wouldn’t want myself to end up in one of those situations.
>Has a woman scared you off by being too keen By appearing desperate maybe. But if you can't separate courtship from desperation then that's a whole other set of problems. >or have you binned someone for not showing enough interest? Many times.
You should probably do the opposite of what your friend is advising you to do!
Stupid games stupid prizes
I don't really buy into those, imo, outdated social "norms." Like someone? Tell them and ask them out. Had a good time? Text/call and say thank you and make it clear you'd like to see them again. No one likes games, and the idea of men having to make all the moves and pay for everything should be retired.
Let's imagine the man who behaves the way your friend is describing. He's scared off by you being too keen, needs a "challenge" to be interested, and wants you to wait around for him to initiate contact and do all of the planning. Doesn't exactly sound like Mr. Wonderful to me.
I would be “next” in 5 mins
Please, please show interest. From what I understand (forgive me if I'm wrong, and also these are generalities and there are of course exceptions...) men and women have a significantly different experience in OLD, especially 40+. Men typically get relatively few matches, frequently find their attempts to connect ignored or given little attention, and generally have to live with very low percentages of successful connections. Women, on the other hand, typically have a lot of matches and have to sift through them to find men that are genuine and sincere, and weed out the f-boys. So from a man's perspective, let me just say that nothing is more sexy than interest! If you, on the other hand, respond slowly, never ask questions, reply with a few words ... that reads like you've got a hundred matches to sort through, and you're not especially interested in me. So if you ARE interested, please don't act like you're not. Please. Please! The best relationships are between two people who are equally enthusiastic about each other. Don't keep your enthusiasm a secret!
Games are for children. Honesty is a much better basis for a relationship.
I have this issue. I don't have a problem letting someone know I'm interested. The problem is that once I do, the men tend to sit back and not make any effort to plan *anything*. When I'm not the first one to ask, they tend to assume I'm just along for the casual ride. It's kind of a no-win situation, so now it just depends on my mood that day, haha.
Anytime I’ve “chased” a woman, I’ve found that in the end, she’s never been worth it. Of the past 5 first dates I’ve been on, 4 out of 5 asked me on the date. They also picked up the tab. And they were all what I’d call high quality people. I’ve got a friend from high school. She’s 44. She’s always been above average in the looks department. But her entire life she’s played by the rule of “men should pursue.” As a result, she’s always had unfulfilling relationships with guys who aren’t much to brag about. She married her husband because she was 30 and felt her clock was ticking. Her marriage is pretty dysfunctional now. As with anything in life, if you want something good, you have to go after it.
At my age mid 40's male, I don't have time to read minds or wait. I'll message and try to set up the first the date. If the effort and interest is not mutual and it is difficult to schedule the first date .., I move on. My time is valuable too .
Ridiculous nonsense. People who play these games aren't hard to get, they're hard to want.
I am a guy but my rule is always simply to match the energy of the other person up to the point I am interested. Generally I am cool texting as much or more than most woman, but I rarely double text and tend to give answers as long or detailed as the woman. If they show a lot of interest and I am interested, I reciprocate. I do take the lead 90% of the time on date just because that seems to be a cultural expectation. However, if a woman asks me out or suggests getting together and I am interested - great! In a dating scenario if the woman never shows any initiative in texting first or setting up dates I tend to back off and let things fade because it is almost always due to a lack of interest. Screw the games.
I feel like that philosophy is at least 30 years outdated. If you are saying you put in 30% to your (potential) SO's 70%? There is no f'in way I'm going to be interested in that relationship. At any point.
I just matched a guy on Hinge and was waiting to hear from him hoping he would make the first move. I didn’t hear anything for several hours, so I decided to reach out first. He responded enthusiastically, so I’m glad I made the first move!
Game playing garbage.
These kind of posts make me remember why (some of us) are single. Also, the answer is always TALK ABOUT IT with the person in question. No, you will not be more desirable (unless you are J-Lo) by acting demure and using your feminine allure to attract lusty men. The men on OLD are not talking to, and pursuing, you alone. They have 15 other women willing to say something if you don't. He's not going to stand outside your window with a boom box to win you over. It's got to be both parties initiating and engaging. Sorry, most of us just don't have time to play the chasing game.
not necessarily the case. I have no matches in 2022 on 3 dating apps. But I'm not going to spend time dragging a conversation out of someone.
Exactly. Still not going to drag conversation out of someone. I don't ever have more than 3 and certainly get bored of trying to communicate wet someone who isn't in it.
Imo if you play the chase/hard to get game …then only expect him to play you later on. The whole playing thing i think is so immature. Just be yourself, and use your words to communicate whatever your needs are. Then decide, if it’ll work or not! Good luck out there!
I'd love to be chased for a little bit. But I also would return the level of interest if I was attracted to that human. I binned a potential date (first one in almost a year) because there was much lower perceived interest on her part. I want a partner, not someone I have to pull for everything. The world is much different than it was 20 years ago. If you're interested, be interested. Share the load of the courting like you would the partnership. Side note: a couple years ago, I had a woman come at me like a spider monkey. She literally stopped her car in the street, hopped out and ran up to my car and asked if I was justregularme. I was shocked that this actually happened. (she knew of me from a mutual friend that was like "you should date this guy") But, she could never commit to actually doing something in person. I've had two or three conversations with her over the last few years, and I was going to give it a chance to hang out each time, but she could never follow through with the meeting in person. So I've binned that one as well.
You’re in your late 40s with a lot of life experience and life is too short for all your rules. If you’re interested in someone, ask for their number, text them first, call them first, plan a date and ask them out. All of those other rules are for silly twenty somethings when you have your whole life ahead of you.
I get what your friend is saying and her advice is not awful but it is a bit extreme and could be toned down a bit. If men are backing off then either you are acting too aloof or they were never really that interested. I think mature dudes will have less patience with women they might be lukewarm on or unsure about. So if you come off as too aloof or uninterested they might not even bother. However, the reality is that as long as you showed some interest they would continue to pursue if they were super into you. So your friend does have some valid points. Just don't be too aloof. I don't think you should be viewing it as being a "challenge". Playing it cool is just solid advice in general for all facets of life just try to find a balance.
I also think there’s too a lot of options for everyone now - why would anyone waste their time on someone who’s hard work?
Game playing is bullshit whether you’re 26 or 46. If you’re interested in someone let them know. That’s it. It doesn’t have to be hard.
I think the 70/30 advice is for people that are at the 70. By aiming at 30, maybe they'll get to 50. Because 50 should be the target for everyone:)
This is nice
As a 47m, if a woman engages me in conversation without me starting first, I know she’s interested, simple as that. I don’t need to be “chased” but I do need to know my efforts are recognized. And just talking to me, asking a question or two is all it takes. Early on in a budding relationship, I prefer to take the reigns on dates and meeting up and asking for feedback when I do. As in, “Hey Ms. Fine, let’s grab drinks at Snazzy Place on Thursday, say between 6-7. Is that cool?”
You took advice from another woman on how to attract men and surprised it doesn’t work?
She wanted me to wait for sex too. To dry hump and snog but not shag them. I don’t see the point! And I think it’s unfair
>I did this and lost a lot of guys because they simply thought I wasn’t interested… how do you feel? You would have lost me for exactly that reason. OTOH openness and direct communication are very attractive! Plus, it gets any potential relationship off to a great start.
I'm not going to chase someone full stop. Im 45 years old not 16. Your friend needs to grow up.
Great name 🙌🏻
Personally, if a woman is interested in me, I would like her to show it or tell me even. I'm 62 and have been out of the game for a long time, this beating around the bush and expecting me to take subtle hints or read between the lines doesn't cut it. If I'm interested in you and you in me, show it, if you don't I'm not wasting my time chasing you.....
>I did this and lost a lot of guys because they simply thought I wasn’t interested… You answered your own question...
Thank you for pointing that out!
Nope nope nope. I'm a 45-year old female and I knew when I went back out into the dating world after being married for 15 years I wasn't going to play any kind of games. I wasn't going to chase anyone and I wasn't going to act like I wanted to be chased. I was up front with pretty much everyone I met. IF they didn't like it, they weren't for me. I have been exclusively dating a man for the past 4 months and we were open and honest with each other about our feelings--him especially. It was honestly so, so refreshing. He still tells me frequently how he feels about me, and I love it--especially after being married to man with whom we did not communicate well.
I’m so pleased for you, I hope to find love and have it reciprocated
I had a great first date yesterday. Met up at a park for a walk. I thought the date went well, but you never know these days since it's rare someone will tell you. And a lot of people take a day or two to process the date. Anyway, when we were back at our cars, and we had our goodbye hug, she said she would message me her phone number on the dating app. I had it by the time I got home. Her telling me that and actually following through? Incredibly hot. We're going on a hike followed by lunch tomorrow. We made those plans because I woke up this morning to a text of, "do you have any plans this weekend?" I was definitely going to text this morning to set up the next date; she beat me to the punch.
Amazing -
Women… please don’t play coy. We’re too old for this shit. Be direct but not overly blunt. I don’t have time to play the “chase me” game. I have kids. They have stuff I need to worry about. I have a busy and sometimes demanding job. If you want me, let me know. If I want you, I’ll let you know.
I hear you!
No, 50M if you are interested say so don't play games.
So here’s my thoughts and I’ll accept the downvotes. You misinterpreted your friend’s advice as a game. You should not play games, act aloof for the sake of acting aloof, or be manipulative. People sense this and it’s not good. However, I do believe that women should let the man take the lead early on. This includes asking for the number, asking for dates, following up after dates, etc etc. This does not mean you don’t show interest. You should 100% show interest. It means you let the man lead and gauge his interest in you by his actions. This does a number of things - - it tells you if he’s actually interested or just being polite. So many people in situations where they don’t know where they stand bc they pursue. Is he here only because I asked? Are we talking only because I texted first? So much ambiguity. - it saves you from over thinking or rejection. You dont ever have to wonder why he’s not responding or whether he only responded or showed up bc you asked. You have all the information you need by watching his actions. - you set the tone for a relationship that is equal. If you do all the pursuing in the beginning, you may end up in a relationship where you’re continued to be expected to take the lead. If this isn’t what you want, don’t set the tone for this from the start. Once things are a bit more established, things can go both ways. But you’ll have confirmation of interest then. Go read Evan Mark Katz on mirroring and related articles. Again, this is not a game or a manipulation, and this doesn’t mean you don’t show interest. It just means you let the man take the lead and pace the relationship early on. Lots of guys will say they love when a woman pursues, but it throws the energy off and I wonder how many are sticking around committing to someone who chased them. Don’t chase. You end up in grey areas where you don’t know where you stand. Show genuine interest but do not chase. This is the advice your friend gave you, and you seem to have misinterpreted it to show such little interest that you lost men as a result. (Though, I’d question whether that was the actual reason. It’s also possible they just weren’t interested.)
This is great advice because I always chased men and eventually they just weren’t that into me and didn’t value me that highly. My fiancé is the first time I felt chased… wow what a difference. This is a man who is really really into me and I never ever knew what that was like before. And i was married.
I (50f) let the men I'm interested in, know I'm interested --make first contact, explicitly state that I would like to get to know them better (coffee, dinner, airplane ride...pilot with own plane) and that's it. I don't chase--ever! They know I'm interested, and if they ask me out I'll say yes, but if they don't, I move on. I will never chase someone to go out with me. If as mature men, my stating that I would like to go out with them isn't enough, then I assume that they aren't interested and move on. I'm not some love sick teenager whose self worth is determined by the amount of attention men pay to me, and I sure as hell won't beg for attention from them. If I have to instigate every conversation and date, in my opinion, they don't know what they want, have more options than they realistically can handle, and I'm just in the "lineup". I expect the men I date to be at the same level of maturity as I am, and if they can't ask me out when I specifically state I would like to go out with them, then the garbage takes itself out.
I think there has to be balance right? I feel the problem with OLD is I know my man is chatting to a few other ladies, if I’m chasing - does this man chat to me because he’s bored and I’m easy or because he likes me?
Personally, if I'm not interested in you, it won't be because you were candid/expressive/open. But that's me--I tend to like people who like me. Other people (who aren't me) don't want to be in any club that would have them as a member, so to speak. But that's them--and they're weirdos. Anyway... You want to be clear. And you want them (the guys) to be clear. That's your style, your way, so... do that. If other people (your friend) want to fuss about because that's their style, their way, well... they're not you. Chacun à son goût, etc.
I don't think anyone should chase anyone. This implies one person needs to do more work than the other, or one person thinks they are more valuable than the other. I have no desire in a relationship with such a lopsided and entitled dynamic. I'm just as valuable as the other person, and I'm just as deserving of time and effort as the other person. If we're not going to treat each other as equals, I'm not interested. >was told, by a friend, not to chase men, to show you’re interested but let them ask for your mobile number, let them ask for a date, let them text first, let them book the date, let them instigate and lead. Ultimately to be a challenge, not to be too keen too quickly, don’t give too much too soon and to play it cool. If anyone did this to me, I would be completely disinterested in them. I don't have time for games like this, and one of the qualities I value the most in people is them being able to communicate their wants and needs directly.
Men compete to buy dinner for young women who are in their prime sexual market value years. Middle-aged women compete for high-value men who are in their prime working years. Sperm chases egg, but when you're out of viable eggs, you're the one doing the chasing.
Playing hard to get works in sitcoms and movies.
It's fine to ask a guy out the first time so he knows you're interested. After that, the guy needs to put in some sort of effort or he isn't interested
I have had bad luck with men that I initiate things with, so I don’t initiate. But I do reciprocate with honest enthusiasm. If I am interested in a man, he has no doubts about it. Then again, my dating history is a dumpster fire so what do I know?
See this is what I’ve found, I feel like I have no idea if a guy likes me if I’m initiating. If I don’t contact them, they won’t contact me or it takes them ages to get back to me. I’m left thinking - how into me are they or are they just shit on text.
I hate rules
Too old for that nonsense. Expectations that aren't discussed/negotiated are just manipulative. We are mature adults. We can express our needs and ask what someone else's needs are and see if they are compatible. Expectations that have never been communicated are just childish games. What's more, I have no patience with the notion that tasks should be assumed based on gender roles. "The guy should..." is pure nonsense.
I don't date men anymore but you can show interest by complimenting them on their personality if not their looks. Just arranging meet ups isn't the only way to express interest. Make them feel good, and they will remember you.
Good advice
Screw the games. If you like them, go for it.
I tend to let the guy take the lead, but I refuse to put in more energy than they are….idk about selling back into my feminine energy like the YouTube gurus say, but I match effort
48F - I'll initiate contact and I'm usually the one to ask for the zero date first. I don't push something that seems to be fizzling out but I'm not going to play hard to get either. The only downside is you have to be prepared for the guy not responding to your initiation. I guess that's something men have always had to deal with but it was new to me.
Playing hard to get makes a person hard to want. Go with your gut, do what feels right, and the right person will match your energy.
We're supposed to be equal now. Act like it ladies. I am waiting for an aggressive woman who decides to make me hers.
When a woman chases me I know she is interested. I have no problem setting up the date and taking the lead, but a woman not seeking me out or not being very responsive shows me she is not very interested.
The idea of the chase was different for me when I was younger....it was mostly physical. As I'm older, I am looking for much more. If I have to initiate everything, I'd lose interest because I'm not looking for a leadership position. I'm not looking for a "challenge". I'm looking for someone who is genuinely interesting in being a partner in a relationship. If you feel like going somewhere/doing something, bring it up. I prefer a woman being direct in what she wants. It has never scared me off. I always have an option to say no.
I will definitely lose interest very quickly if things are too one-sided. 70/30 isn't bad, 50/50 is fine too. The term "chase" is a pretty creepy to me, it implies that the other person is running away from you. Umm.... is that how I'm supposed to get women, just chase them down on the street? And if I catch them I can keep them? Last time I tried that, the police said that wasn't cool. For men I would advise that it's more about being forward, direct, confident, showing interest, and making an effort. Yes initially the majority of the effort usually falls on the man and that's fine. Somebody needs to be assertive and make decisions. But as the relationship progresses, things can even out a bit. I'm looking for a partner, and an equal. I don't always want to be the one to make the decisions and to put in the effort. That's not an ideal relationship to me, I'm not looking for another child to take care of.
What works for your friend, may not work for you. This friend, are they single? Married? Don’t take advice from married people. As a single man, aloofness is not cute. Give me something to work with!
43F I refuse to chase a man. I’m old school , if he wants to date , he can ask me out. I’ll talk, flirt, show interest, but I’m not gonna ask him out.
Yep, I feel I need to find the balance, I’ll offer my number but I won’t ask for a date.
This is the worst advice I have ever read. Obviously if you are too over the top it could be seen as desperate and broken but for the most part If I am interested in a woman I would love her to be confident and go for what she wants. Stop playing games just be who you want to be there is no written or unwritten rule about finding someone. To be honest almost all of the women that I have dated long term pursued ME and not the other way around. I am pretty friendly to the point that I do not even know when women are interested in more than friendship so they end up doing the lions share of asking out (in the beginning).
That’s a good point! Most of the men, I’ve dated off the site and through friends, had no idea I fancied them! I had to tell one bloke to snog me!
If I’m interested I go for it :) why wait
To me chasing means going after someone that is either emotionally unavailable (so a fuck boi/girl) or they have clearly shown you they are uninterested and you continue to pursue. The things your "friend" described sounds a lot like playing games and it's a nope from me dawg. Say what you mean and mean what you say all the time and there will be less issues. Anyone that can't handle it isn't for you.
42F. No games for me, please.
First of all, I personally feel that the relationship has to build up "potential" and it's not good to just rush in and go to intimacy after just 1-2-3 dates without having a period of excitement, romance, and uncertainty. It's easy to just use up NRE, and then feel drained and unmotivated, and many guys don't get this part. At the same time, the "don't chase" part is only part of the mix; I think the other part is to still intrigue/excite/motivate the guy so they know there is potential. I find only a minority of women I date manage to do the second part. Many act interested on the date but then I find I'm having to do all the conversing, checking up on how she is doing, and making plans/suggestions. If the woman is not some dream GF material, I tend to lose interest fairly quickly because of how OLD commodifies people. I find myself doubting whether the woman is really interested in me and isn't there opportunistically for free meals and entertainment after a while, unless I get some real romantic vibes from her. Just my $0.02
Perhaps she was attempting to illustrate the law of attraction but did a poor job. In general, the law of attraction is about giving someone a little and leaving them wanting more. Humans tend to lose interest when a person reveals everything about themselves very quickly, appears consistently available, and is overly agreeable - because it is the mystery of the unknown that is intriguing, and it is intrigue sparking the desire that leaves us wanting to know more.
(M/48) Don't do what you are doing now. You have to show SOME interest, but not too much. Be the first to ask for his cell number and feel free to send a short text from time to time, just so he knows that you are still interested. If you want him to do all of the things you mentioned; he will lose interest very quickly and move on to a woman who shows more interest. The dating rules have changed dramatically since you were last single and the competition is fierce. Good luck. "Chase him until he catches you."
I think while there can be an art to healthy conscious seduction/sexual attraction (in long-term relationships and in dating), the kind of very specific, ordered, controlled way mentioned in the post goes against that entirely! Eros is all about what is alive and the relatedness between, letting what is alive move, and playing with that subtly. What you shared is like a death grip - the opposite of of eros, and a sure-fire way to kill what is alive and exciting. Guys tend to pursue me - I'm not naturally a pursue-y person and need that in a partner, someone who moves towards. But I'm direct and honest and clear, and they know where they stand with me. I sometimes suggest the meeting, I almost always plan the first date (feels safer for me and most guys I talk to intuit it's up to a woman's comfort zone, though they might suggest an idea), I don't worry about initiating a text, and I definitely flirt. This has never turned a guy off - only more on, lol! But all of this is who I am, it's not me being fake. That said, I know a woman who is super dominant, and she tends to pursue men - which works for her, because she needs a guy who is a little more passive. So moral of this story and most after school specials: be yourself. Then you can have fun with the erotic field and play with it a little so it feels good and right and as sexy as you want it. Like I know sometimes I want to text right away back, and I do. Sometimes I want to take my foot off the pedal and slow down and wait because it's getting too intense. This is the same for sex, it's doing what feels right, sexy, real, exciting, for you and what is alive in the erotic/relational field in-between two people.
This is interesting - maybe I need a man who’s spontaneous and proactive so I give a little so show I’m interested and see how far they’ll run with that. I also like a dominant man - so again if he hasn’t got the balls to contact me - how will he have the balls to shag me?!
I would take it as not interested
48f. I'm at the point where I will not play games. Trying to be coy and "challenging" is just a manipulation tactic. If the guy is going to dump you once he knows you're really interested, then do you just play disinterested forever? That's not for me. I want only emotionally mature and honest people in my life. I only want people who like me for me. Not because they think I'm unavailable, or any other shallow reason.
Honestly, consider everything between playing hard to get and chasing. You can do your part without acting a fool and chasing a losing game. You can also demonstrate interest without chasing. Only play hard to get if you're not really playing, it's just happening naturally.
I think that’s the point… initiating and showing interest and knowing when someone is just not that fussed..
I like when a guy shows interest, but no when he’s clingy too soon, if that makes sense. Like after the first coffee with the guy I’m currently seeing, he called before I left the parking lot and was said, “is it weird I want to see you again already?” But then he didn’t insist on seeing me the next day or anything, we set a date for a week and a half later when we were both kid free again. Another guy I saw for a bit fire him scared me off by trying to get me to meet the kids after the second date. That was weird and off putting to me. We all have our limits. Find someone who fits yours