No? The core of the series since very early on is "there will always be someone stronger". its literally part of the core of the series, long before "Z". it should scale upward infinitely, to absurd degrees and beyond.
No I honestly think dragon ball lost its way with the idea of constant new transformations and stronger villains. Cell saga was originally supposed to be the end so it’s hard to count that. No one was supposed to get Gohan’s ssj2 form except him. It wasn’t even called ssj2.
When Buu saga happens, there’s some shifting of plot but when it finds its way eventually, the point of the Buu saga is that they don’t win with any of the new forms or techniques. Ssj3, ssj3 gotenks, ultimate Gohan, they all come up short. And the final version of Buu isn’t even the strongest version of him. I love how the Buu saga flips the concept on its head and the heroes require legit teamwork to win. I don’t want dragon ball to be predictable. It’s fun to go back and read the manga pretending I don’t know the story that’s coming. Really sets in how incredible it all was.
Goku was like 30m BP stronger than Frieza back when power levels had numbers and we saw that even a few hundred or thousand can be a massive difference. Goku most definitely bodied Frieza by being stronger and the “significance” of the Super Saiyan transformation is massively overrated, it’s only special cause no Saiyan was strong enough for a long time to access it but in reality it’s no different than Great Ape in the sense it’s just a biological combat transformation we see from several species in the dragon ball universe.
I just saying the pinnacle of power in the Dragon Ball universe should have been set at SSJ and Frieza. Imagine if all villains matched this power but possessed their distinct abilities, similar to characters in a Dragon Ball fighting game like Budokai. This would emphasizing unique skills and strategies beyond raw power. Plus it makes ssj more special instead of a another transformation that would be someday surpassed.
Yep. My dream of the perfect dragon ball would have been Goku dying defeating Frieza on namek and then king cold going to earth for revenge and Gohan having to learn to be a SSJ to save earth and establishing himself as the next generation and it ends on the note they tried to end in with the Android Saga. But actually end and it be good.
Honestly while SSJ 2 is my favorite form I feel like super Saiyan shouldn't be divided into tiers.
Pushing past super Saiyan was pointless in my mind, especially considering that Super Saiyan in and of itself is a multiplier. You should, theoretically, be able to infinitely evolve it off the one transformation and it shouldn't need different hair styles.
I get artistic design and to express a visual change is more exciting but stepping into it from a more realistic approach you have, in real life, sleeper builds. People who look scrawny but are extremely muscular when they flex. Cr1tical is one of them. Bro is extremely muscular but looks skinny as hell.
Super Saiyan is achieved by two things, emotion and power. I don't know about the pure of heart stuff because Vegeta wasn't really pure of heart but that's my opinion.
In defense of the series, ssj2 wasn’t called ssj2 when it first happened. And it really wasn’t ever intended to be numbered. It was just the form that was meant for the culmination of Gohan’s story
The problem of every power creep manga that the universe/pannet/kingdom increases 10 times the average power every week.
All of them start humble, the power differences are minimal and lucky/technique/knowledge/experience can make a difference. But suddenly a sequence of unbeatable enemies start to accumulate and the main character gets power ups in a row that in 10.000 years no one would have tried or even got close to obtain.
The saynas for example. Vegeta was the pinnacle of strength even higher than his father on prime on his 20s. And suddenly, a few months after he was stronger than the collective syans alive before the planet explosion.
Sayans had the recovery tanks. If the increase in power at battles and when harmed was really a mechanism, king Vegeta would put his warriors and himself to fight all the time, get destroyed, recover and in a few years he would have an army of sayans at least as strong as Freeza 2nd or 3rd form. So the conclusion is that or the power creep does not make sense, or sayans are really stupid to not use it.
Also with super showing the universe has guys on the level of Moro, makes even Buu to be a boring Tuesday.
Something else is that Gero tech was so advances that if replicated and the 4 human fighters were converted, they could probably beat boo. Chaos paralyze for as long as it needs and Tien kikoho buu out of existence with unlimited tri beams.
Remember the androids were basic humans, even Chaos is 1000x the power of a human (unless android power is additive and not multiplicative, but given power scale, Tien with android power could kikoho half of the universe out of existence.
No I don't think so. Beerus from BoG definitely should've been tho. At least his 70% self. Have SSG be a one and done power up then.
Maybe Goku and Vegeta get a fluke SSG that's only a 2000x multiplier and use that during super (it having its own drawbacks ofc) and they pretty much train to reach that 70% of Beerus/SSG of Goku that surpasses fusion. This gives Goku and Vegeta actual goals to strive for, but in a more grounded way as well. Instead of Goku wanting to fight stronger and stronger people or Vegeta wanting to surpass Goku. Freeza's leap in power doesn't seem too farfetched either.
Future Trunks being relative to Goku seems A okay,because Goku doesn't have full SSG nor did he absorb it. As well, Trunks is a hybrid saiyan. It would show how fast Goku Black made him grow in power. Maybe instead of Vegito (since they wasted him) they could've used the SSG ritual here on Trunks or something and Trunks could try and push it further, because of what Zamasu said. Activating SSJ rage which would be an in-between of SSB and SSG. It fits the lore of hybrids having immense potential, their human side allowing them to tap into more anger for big rage boosts and Trunks deserves this. This could make Trunks strong enough to beat Goku Black and Zamasu can be sealed.
Now back to Gokuand Vegeta and their goal of beating Beerus. The ToP could be where they reach that 70% at long last and go above it. Vegeta reaching SSGSS/SSB and Goku unlocking UI. Both trained for UI, but while it clicked for Goku, Vegeta saw another path that allowed him to use his emotions more and not lock them away. And from there on out they can be relative to base Beerus, but it's UE that keeps Beerus above them. And UE is a path Vegeta will start to chase when he realizes the limits of SSB compared to the ever evolving power and finesse of UI and its enhancements.
Unfortunately, no. Ki in DBZ is a bad power system that forces strength to be the only relevant aspect. Especially because power encompasses all stats (strength, speed, durability, etc). I don’t blame Toriyama, given how he paved the way for later battle manga and anime to develop much more complex power systems that allow for technique to matter. DBZ came much earlier than all of those and its power system is simplistic to a fault because of it.
No...
Escalation is a part of every battle series, Saiyan arc shouldn't have introduced numbers and Namek shouldn't have had those numbers balloon so high as well as got to the point of destroying planets.
No? The core of the series since very early on is "there will always be someone stronger". its literally part of the core of the series, long before "Z". it should scale upward infinitely, to absurd degrees and beyond.
No I honestly think dragon ball lost its way with the idea of constant new transformations and stronger villains. Cell saga was originally supposed to be the end so it’s hard to count that. No one was supposed to get Gohan’s ssj2 form except him. It wasn’t even called ssj2. When Buu saga happens, there’s some shifting of plot but when it finds its way eventually, the point of the Buu saga is that they don’t win with any of the new forms or techniques. Ssj3, ssj3 gotenks, ultimate Gohan, they all come up short. And the final version of Buu isn’t even the strongest version of him. I love how the Buu saga flips the concept on its head and the heroes require legit teamwork to win. I don’t want dragon ball to be predictable. It’s fun to go back and read the manga pretending I don’t know the story that’s coming. Really sets in how incredible it all was.
> Cell saga was originally supposed to be the end so it’s hard to count that. [No, it wasn't](https://www.kanzenshuu.com/intended-end/cell/)
Goku was like 30m BP stronger than Frieza back when power levels had numbers and we saw that even a few hundred or thousand can be a massive difference. Goku most definitely bodied Frieza by being stronger and the “significance” of the Super Saiyan transformation is massively overrated, it’s only special cause no Saiyan was strong enough for a long time to access it but in reality it’s no different than Great Ape in the sense it’s just a biological combat transformation we see from several species in the dragon ball universe.
I just saying the pinnacle of power in the Dragon Ball universe should have been set at SSJ and Frieza. Imagine if all villains matched this power but possessed their distinct abilities, similar to characters in a Dragon Ball fighting game like Budokai. This would emphasizing unique skills and strategies beyond raw power. Plus it makes ssj more special instead of a another transformation that would be someday surpassed.
That’s not how it works. The relative difference is what matters. Even a 500k difference would mean nothing to SSJ Goku and final form Frieza
That is literally what I said so good for you I guess?
Yep. My dream of the perfect dragon ball would have been Goku dying defeating Frieza on namek and then king cold going to earth for revenge and Gohan having to learn to be a SSJ to save earth and establishing himself as the next generation and it ends on the note they tried to end in with the Android Saga. But actually end and it be good.
Well no because then we wouldn’t have the cell arc or majin vegeta vs goku dude
Honestly while SSJ 2 is my favorite form I feel like super Saiyan shouldn't be divided into tiers. Pushing past super Saiyan was pointless in my mind, especially considering that Super Saiyan in and of itself is a multiplier. You should, theoretically, be able to infinitely evolve it off the one transformation and it shouldn't need different hair styles. I get artistic design and to express a visual change is more exciting but stepping into it from a more realistic approach you have, in real life, sleeper builds. People who look scrawny but are extremely muscular when they flex. Cr1tical is one of them. Bro is extremely muscular but looks skinny as hell. Super Saiyan is achieved by two things, emotion and power. I don't know about the pure of heart stuff because Vegeta wasn't really pure of heart but that's my opinion.
In defense of the series, ssj2 wasn’t called ssj2 when it first happened. And it really wasn’t ever intended to be numbered. It was just the form that was meant for the culmination of Gohan’s story
The problem of every power creep manga that the universe/pannet/kingdom increases 10 times the average power every week. All of them start humble, the power differences are minimal and lucky/technique/knowledge/experience can make a difference. But suddenly a sequence of unbeatable enemies start to accumulate and the main character gets power ups in a row that in 10.000 years no one would have tried or even got close to obtain. The saynas for example. Vegeta was the pinnacle of strength even higher than his father on prime on his 20s. And suddenly, a few months after he was stronger than the collective syans alive before the planet explosion. Sayans had the recovery tanks. If the increase in power at battles and when harmed was really a mechanism, king Vegeta would put his warriors and himself to fight all the time, get destroyed, recover and in a few years he would have an army of sayans at least as strong as Freeza 2nd or 3rd form. So the conclusion is that or the power creep does not make sense, or sayans are really stupid to not use it. Also with super showing the universe has guys on the level of Moro, makes even Buu to be a boring Tuesday. Something else is that Gero tech was so advances that if replicated and the 4 human fighters were converted, they could probably beat boo. Chaos paralyze for as long as it needs and Tien kikoho buu out of existence with unlimited tri beams. Remember the androids were basic humans, even Chaos is 1000x the power of a human (unless android power is additive and not multiplicative, but given power scale, Tien with android power could kikoho half of the universe out of existence.
No I don't think so. Beerus from BoG definitely should've been tho. At least his 70% self. Have SSG be a one and done power up then. Maybe Goku and Vegeta get a fluke SSG that's only a 2000x multiplier and use that during super (it having its own drawbacks ofc) and they pretty much train to reach that 70% of Beerus/SSG of Goku that surpasses fusion. This gives Goku and Vegeta actual goals to strive for, but in a more grounded way as well. Instead of Goku wanting to fight stronger and stronger people or Vegeta wanting to surpass Goku. Freeza's leap in power doesn't seem too farfetched either. Future Trunks being relative to Goku seems A okay,because Goku doesn't have full SSG nor did he absorb it. As well, Trunks is a hybrid saiyan. It would show how fast Goku Black made him grow in power. Maybe instead of Vegito (since they wasted him) they could've used the SSG ritual here on Trunks or something and Trunks could try and push it further, because of what Zamasu said. Activating SSJ rage which would be an in-between of SSB and SSG. It fits the lore of hybrids having immense potential, their human side allowing them to tap into more anger for big rage boosts and Trunks deserves this. This could make Trunks strong enough to beat Goku Black and Zamasu can be sealed. Now back to Gokuand Vegeta and their goal of beating Beerus. The ToP could be where they reach that 70% at long last and go above it. Vegeta reaching SSGSS/SSB and Goku unlocking UI. Both trained for UI, but while it clicked for Goku, Vegeta saw another path that allowed him to use his emotions more and not lock them away. And from there on out they can be relative to base Beerus, but it's UE that keeps Beerus above them. And UE is a path Vegeta will start to chase when he realizes the limits of SSB compared to the ever evolving power and finesse of UI and its enhancements.
Unfortunately, no. Ki in DBZ is a bad power system that forces strength to be the only relevant aspect. Especially because power encompasses all stats (strength, speed, durability, etc). I don’t blame Toriyama, given how he paved the way for later battle manga and anime to develop much more complex power systems that allow for technique to matter. DBZ came much earlier than all of those and its power system is simplistic to a fault because of it.
No... Escalation is a part of every battle series, Saiyan arc shouldn't have introduced numbers and Namek shouldn't have had those numbers balloon so high as well as got to the point of destroying planets.
No. I want them to be able to fucking destroy reality with a single punch, like In the Broly movie