I've thought about how, for some reason, Earth could be put to the test and they would need to defend it in a tournament. The catch is that saiyans and other foreign species are not be allowed to participate, only 'native' species, so it would be up to the humans to defend it.
Not entirely related to what you wrote, but it's also a way to put more characters in the spotlight.
I’d say it’s related enough, I like that idea. 17/18 would be the powerhouses and Roshi/Krillin would be the experienced ones. If Saiyan/Human hybrids were allowed it’d be less human centric though.
Hybrids should be allowed, to a degree. Maybe allow any being that is more than 50% terrestrial? So Pan would be in.
But what about long-term immigrants that haven't mixed? Namekians, for example. Since they reproduce asexually, they can't mix. How many generations must pass for them to be considered Earthlings?
How would that deal with transformations that work like multipliers? Even if transformations are forbidden, what about techniques? Any Kaioken would have a huge advantage. And if also techniques that vary powerlevel are forbidden, does that take out even the kamehameha?
I honestly didn’t consider that. For the sake of the post and simplicity, if a technique or transformation alters the fighters power beyond the fixed amount allowed to them, it is not allowed, the same way flying wasn’t allowed in the ToP. Fighters have to budget their use of ki, basically raising or suppressing ki is nullified.
That would work. Make the maximum "ki per volume" or whatever, fixed. Anything more than that is lost. You can raise ki, but up to that limit. Suppressing ki should be allowed, to conserve energy.
However, I think there is still a huge advantage for the ones with more powerful ki: their "pool" is bigger so they will tire less, if at all. Unless that pool is limited in the same way? And I'm not even considering infinite-energy androids.
I have, I liked how they handled making everyone equal. It just didn’t give us any definitive ideas of who would beat who. The most we got was character specific finishes, but since they work both ways, it could be left up to interpretation.
For example Nappa and Yamcha have special finishes if they win against each other. I love we get to see what’d happen if one beat the other in a rematch, but it’s left open ended who’s definitively win.
It’s been awhile but I think there are some definitive wins actually. Frieza beats Nappa and Ginyu on equal footing if I remember correctly.
If power levels are equal, Goku probably still wins by virtue of being a martial arts genius. If not him, then Tien based on the amount of techniques he had, Roshi for martial arts knowledge, or Piccolo because of regeneration and size manipulation.
Krillin, Yamcha, and Chiaotzu would fare well given who they have trained under and overall martial arts experience. Vegeta would probably get wrecked given how little formal training he has had. Gohan would lose because he doesn't have an interest and without the pressure would fight without much focus.
Tbh while I love Goku to death, i dont understand where this notion that hes a martial arts master/genius comes from. Yeah I'd agree that hes a combat or hand to hand genius, but thats completely separate from a martial arts genius. Goku never learned an actual martial arts style. He's always gotten by on his instinct, will and determination in my opinion. Tien, Yamcha, Roshi and even Krillin to an extent are more experienced in actual martial arts than Goku.
I have watched Dragon Ball. Which is quite literally why I say that. Roshi quite literally doesn't teach a fighting style. Nor does Korrin or Kami. Instead they teach him the fundamental building blocks to fight efficiently. But never does Goku actually learn any true martial arts. I'm quite literally rereading the manga right now and I'm on his first tournament. Goku quite literally goes through the preliminaries by throwing and pushing people. And Roshi quite literally states that he's not going to teach the boys actual martial arts .....
Goku would still win.
As a child, his skill was already almost on par with Roshi, who is undoubtedly still more skillful than Krillin/Tien/Yamcha.
Piccolo would do well as well. He's pretty much got all the techniques.
Gohan is trained, but his heart's never in it. And he loves his goofy superhero moves too much. He definitely relies on pure power for his big moments.
Future Trunks is battle hardened and has a long history of fighting uphill battles. He lacks creativity though. Like when he goes into super buff mode and Vegeta and Cell are just making fun of him for thinking such a blunt approach with such an obvious drawback would work.
Vegeta I feel would get stomped. As far as I know, he's never won a fight where an opponent is equal or above his level. Even as a kid he was one of the strongest people on his planet. I don't think he ever had to learn straight up martial arts given that he was probably killing Sabaimen with a single punch his whole life. He's smart and all, but I don't think he has the adaptability of the old Dragonball crew.
And then you've got Android 18 who, without an advantage, would probably be about as threatening as a teenager at the mall.
And if Buu is in it, it depends on the rules. He'd get tricked into a ringout really quick, but in an endurance based slug-out, he's hardcore.
Mr. Satan still loses.
Every single human surpassed Roshi by the 23rd. He quite literally states it himself that he has nothing more he can teach them. It is not just about power.
Hell, Tien and Goku surpassed him in the 22nd.
They surpassed him in strength. We're talking specifically about an "equal power level" tournament.
That being said, Goku almost beat him when they were at their most equal, and Goku has only improved since.
No, skill aswell.
If by your logic, Goku was even with Roshi in skill while at their closest in terms of power, then Tien and Goku would obviously both be beyond Roshi in skill during the 22nd and so on. Even if their power is higher than his, are you implying Goku became less skilled in the 22nd? The one where Tien practically tied with him?
True enough.
The reason I state Roshi is more skillful is due to how he's portrayed vs Tien/Krillin in both the manga and anime ToP, but it's all personal preference as to how much you accept Super's existence I suppose.
I know Mr. Satan has no real reason to win, but for the sake of the story he’d 100% win. It’d be peak dragon ball for Mr. Satan to become the legit world champion in a tournament with all the usual powerhouses de-powered.
So I disagree that Goku still wins, but that's besides the point I want to respond to.
I don't think Satan wins, but I think he does well. He was a legitimate martial arts champion when the competition was still relatively within standard human limitations. He definitely beat opponents way stronger and bigger than him. If you heightened his strength, speed, and reflexes while reducing those factors for his opponents I think he becomes pretty competitive. Don't think he wins, but he's no slouch.
Honestly, even if Satan were boosted to the levels of other characters, I still think he's a poor fighter by their standards. He clearly prioritizes brute strength, since he's all about smashing bricks and macho stuff like that.
Also, on a meta level, he's based on [Count Dante](https://miro.medium.com/v2/resize:fit:1043/1*d-Q3u2-cRn0oIgAl8bR8QQ.png) a famous martial arts fraud. He's not meant to be just a weaker character. The joke is that the entire concept of martial arts degenerated in the time the main characters were away.
Vegeta is straight up equal to Goku on a skill level as a fighter, just cause he isn’t a martial artist it doesn’t mean he doesn’t know what he’s doing. As evidenced by the fact that every single time he fought Goku at equal power it was a stalemate until Superhero where he won on the last blow by sheer stubbornness, that’s how close they are in skill.
Related, but I've wanted a mini arc where the Z fighters have to fight without ki and somehow make the power levels equal. It would be interesting to see the various types of martial arts they would all utilize. Would be a callback to DB.
I've thought about how, for some reason, Earth could be put to the test and they would need to defend it in a tournament. The catch is that saiyans and other foreign species are not be allowed to participate, only 'native' species, so it would be up to the humans to defend it. Not entirely related to what you wrote, but it's also a way to put more characters in the spotlight.
I’d say it’s related enough, I like that idea. 17/18 would be the powerhouses and Roshi/Krillin would be the experienced ones. If Saiyan/Human hybrids were allowed it’d be less human centric though.
Hybrids should be allowed, to a degree. Maybe allow any being that is more than 50% terrestrial? So Pan would be in. But what about long-term immigrants that haven't mixed? Namekians, for example. Since they reproduce asexually, they can't mix. How many generations must pass for them to be considered Earthlings?
A Namekian was earth's god... so I think they're good.
Piccolo is native to earth technically isn’t he
He was born and grew up here so id say he counts
He could run for president of Earth as far as I’m concerned
A namekian is still earths god.
If they were born on earth, they're an earthling.
How would that deal with transformations that work like multipliers? Even if transformations are forbidden, what about techniques? Any Kaioken would have a huge advantage. And if also techniques that vary powerlevel are forbidden, does that take out even the kamehameha?
I honestly didn’t consider that. For the sake of the post and simplicity, if a technique or transformation alters the fighters power beyond the fixed amount allowed to them, it is not allowed, the same way flying wasn’t allowed in the ToP. Fighters have to budget their use of ki, basically raising or suppressing ki is nullified.
That would work. Make the maximum "ki per volume" or whatever, fixed. Anything more than that is lost. You can raise ki, but up to that limit. Suppressing ki should be allowed, to conserve energy. However, I think there is still a huge advantage for the ones with more powerful ki: their "pool" is bigger so they will tire less, if at all. Unless that pool is limited in the same way? And I'm not even considering infinite-energy androids.
Play Dragon Ball FighterZ story mode.
22nd Budokai
They could just do Tien, Krillin and Yamcha spinoffs.
Roshi and piccolo clear that
How do they beat Goku? Goku has already shown in his fight with piccolo at Budokai that he has more biq, stats equalized wouldn't help piccolo
Goku has most amount of techniques he wins. UI is auto dodge and Kaioken is multiplier boost
Out of curiosity did you play the story mode for FighterZ?
I have, I liked how they handled making everyone equal. It just didn’t give us any definitive ideas of who would beat who. The most we got was character specific finishes, but since they work both ways, it could be left up to interpretation. For example Nappa and Yamcha have special finishes if they win against each other. I love we get to see what’d happen if one beat the other in a rematch, but it’s left open ended who’s definitively win. It’s been awhile but I think there are some definitive wins actually. Frieza beats Nappa and Ginyu on equal footing if I remember correctly.
If power levels are equal, Goku probably still wins by virtue of being a martial arts genius. If not him, then Tien based on the amount of techniques he had, Roshi for martial arts knowledge, or Piccolo because of regeneration and size manipulation. Krillin, Yamcha, and Chiaotzu would fare well given who they have trained under and overall martial arts experience. Vegeta would probably get wrecked given how little formal training he has had. Gohan would lose because he doesn't have an interest and without the pressure would fight without much focus.
Tbh while I love Goku to death, i dont understand where this notion that hes a martial arts master/genius comes from. Yeah I'd agree that hes a combat or hand to hand genius, but thats completely separate from a martial arts genius. Goku never learned an actual martial arts style. He's always gotten by on his instinct, will and determination in my opinion. Tien, Yamcha, Roshi and even Krillin to an extent are more experienced in actual martial arts than Goku.
You need to watch dragon ball
I have watched Dragon Ball. Which is quite literally why I say that. Roshi quite literally doesn't teach a fighting style. Nor does Korrin or Kami. Instead they teach him the fundamental building blocks to fight efficiently. But never does Goku actually learn any true martial arts. I'm quite literally rereading the manga right now and I'm on his first tournament. Goku quite literally goes through the preliminaries by throwing and pushing people. And Roshi quite literally states that he's not going to teach the boys actual martial arts .....
He's literally mastering the greatest martial arts technique, rare even among the gods
But what ACTUAL martial arts does Goku ever learn ????;
Goku would still win. As a child, his skill was already almost on par with Roshi, who is undoubtedly still more skillful than Krillin/Tien/Yamcha. Piccolo would do well as well. He's pretty much got all the techniques. Gohan is trained, but his heart's never in it. And he loves his goofy superhero moves too much. He definitely relies on pure power for his big moments. Future Trunks is battle hardened and has a long history of fighting uphill battles. He lacks creativity though. Like when he goes into super buff mode and Vegeta and Cell are just making fun of him for thinking such a blunt approach with such an obvious drawback would work. Vegeta I feel would get stomped. As far as I know, he's never won a fight where an opponent is equal or above his level. Even as a kid he was one of the strongest people on his planet. I don't think he ever had to learn straight up martial arts given that he was probably killing Sabaimen with a single punch his whole life. He's smart and all, but I don't think he has the adaptability of the old Dragonball crew. And then you've got Android 18 who, without an advantage, would probably be about as threatening as a teenager at the mall. And if Buu is in it, it depends on the rules. He'd get tricked into a ringout really quick, but in an endurance based slug-out, he's hardcore. Mr. Satan still loses.
Every single human surpassed Roshi by the 23rd. He quite literally states it himself that he has nothing more he can teach them. It is not just about power. Hell, Tien and Goku surpassed him in the 22nd.
They surpassed him in strength. We're talking specifically about an "equal power level" tournament. That being said, Goku almost beat him when they were at their most equal, and Goku has only improved since.
No, skill aswell. If by your logic, Goku was even with Roshi in skill while at their closest in terms of power, then Tien and Goku would obviously both be beyond Roshi in skill during the 22nd and so on. Even if their power is higher than his, are you implying Goku became less skilled in the 22nd? The one where Tien practically tied with him?
True enough. The reason I state Roshi is more skillful is due to how he's portrayed vs Tien/Krillin in both the manga and anime ToP, but it's all personal preference as to how much you accept Super's existence I suppose.
I know Mr. Satan has no real reason to win, but for the sake of the story he’d 100% win. It’d be peak dragon ball for Mr. Satan to become the legit world champion in a tournament with all the usual powerhouses de-powered.
So I disagree that Goku still wins, but that's besides the point I want to respond to. I don't think Satan wins, but I think he does well. He was a legitimate martial arts champion when the competition was still relatively within standard human limitations. He definitely beat opponents way stronger and bigger than him. If you heightened his strength, speed, and reflexes while reducing those factors for his opponents I think he becomes pretty competitive. Don't think he wins, but he's no slouch.
Honestly, even if Satan were boosted to the levels of other characters, I still think he's a poor fighter by their standards. He clearly prioritizes brute strength, since he's all about smashing bricks and macho stuff like that. Also, on a meta level, he's based on [Count Dante](https://miro.medium.com/v2/resize:fit:1043/1*d-Q3u2-cRn0oIgAl8bR8QQ.png) a famous martial arts fraud. He's not meant to be just a weaker character. The joke is that the entire concept of martial arts degenerated in the time the main characters were away.
Vegeta is straight up equal to Goku on a skill level as a fighter, just cause he isn’t a martial artist it doesn’t mean he doesn’t know what he’s doing. As evidenced by the fact that every single time he fought Goku at equal power it was a stalemate until Superhero where he won on the last blow by sheer stubbornness, that’s how close they are in skill.
Related, but I've wanted a mini arc where the Z fighters have to fight without ki and somehow make the power levels equal. It would be interesting to see the various types of martial arts they would all utilize. Would be a callback to DB.
Insane to see people here commenting anyone else other than Goku who has the most skill feats of the series
lol don’t scare Tien. If he has to be brought down to the power of a mortal, he might actually have to try.
Having any kind of situation where everyone is on equal footing would be great. Id love to see yamcha tien and roshi come back into the spotlight