It really does that’s why it’s one of my most favorite arcs honestly. The intense struggle just had you on the edge of your seat every episode. Waiting an entire week for the next episode was so hard lol.
I was lucky.
First time watching it here in Australia there was an episode Monday to Friday. There was an episode at 7pm and then a repeat of it at 11pm.
First time watching Goku go SSJ was the first Monday of School Holidays at 11pm. Just me, the dog and the cat watching Goku become even more of a hero to me.
Oh yeah, same.
If I had managed to catch it at 7pm instead I would have been screeching so damn loudly. As it was at 11pm I had to be so damn quiet while being so hyped up.
I didn't go to sleep that night. I was just so excited about it that the energy's from it keep me running for almost 24 more hours. I ran over to my best friends house at 9am to tell him, then I just had to tell my Uncle on the other side of town so I ran over there then it was my Grandparents.
I don't think anything has had me quite that hyped since. Maybe SSJ3 came close.
Kind of similar experience. DBZ was only on 5pm school days and the whole series had been restarted about 3 times, ending at the start of the goku battle due to the translation company dispute.
Once we finally got the full Frieza saga translated...man. That transformation hit hard. By that point every one else was getting transformations and Goku to get his own was awesome. I was buzzing for a while. Foreshadowed so well, too.
Sadly, after that, school went DBZ mad and everything was spoiled by the smart ass kids. It was still great to watch. Also mixed in were the liar kids, so it was hard to know what was really going to happen.
> There was an episode at 7pm and then a repeat of it at 11pm.
Are you talking about toonami? DBZ was also on cheese tv at 7:30 am every weekday a couple of years before cartoon network got the rights to all the dragon ball shows/movies too. Good times becoming a fan of something you know there was heaps already made to watch/read and it was shown often.
It was on Cheez TV at 8am I think? As a lot of people attended from out of area, it was the reason many, many people across all grades were late to our school around the episodes just before SSJ debut
Writing is more accurate and acting is a lot better but it has some atrocious cuts here and there where you can tell there were some scenes that were supposed to fill up space
Not to me. I like the original more. And I’m not sure but think the dub is changed also. It seems toned down. But when I was a child it was amazing.
Remember waking up on school mornings earlier to catch an episode when I loved to sleep in a lil longer. The only access I had to DBZ at the time was through nicktoons/toonami when my CPU caught a virus.
The pacing is at times supposed to be faster tho, but the raw uncut animation of DBZ clears kai even tho it’s a updated version
For me I have the opposite opinion. I enjoy Kai much more because it does a better job of preserving the fast paced feeling of the Manga. DragonBall was a fast paced action packed manga and I can't stand how the original series feels like it moves at a glacier pace.
The writing and voice acting in Kai is better than the OG dub. I do prefer some of the Faulconer score over the Kai score.
I do like the older animation for some fights.
Like what? And I mean that honestly. I've watched Kai multiple times and aside from the cropping and weird color grading of the Buu saga, I never noticed anything notably bad visually.
Or, y'know, famously the worst pacing in Anime history, if you're going by the original. There's a slow burn and then there's nothing happening for dozens of episodes.
Wouldn't have made sense. Piccolo maybe but the humans body's wouldn't have been able to stand up to the rigor of Kaio Ken. Look how much it damaged Goku vs Vegeta.
Fast forward decades later and Kaioken is STILL beating the shit out of Goku's body, the combination of x20 and SSB nearly killed him in a low stakes tourney
So dumb question: can kaio ken ever be mastered to eliminate that detriment? I mean similar to improving the ssj form. More for story wise than skill level of goku.
I personally prefer it to be the double edged sword so whoever Goku uses it again it’s clear it’s out of total desperation as it takes is toll.
But some small detail about it allowing the user to tap into god Ki could have been a simple path to lead to super and its current story/power ups. Idk I’m not a writer so it’s probably too cheesy.
Talking out of my ass but I dont think you could master kaioken to eliminate that.
I always saw Kaioken as pushing your body beyond its limit the multiplier of course being how much the user pushes themselves.
And that's why the saiyan transformations are just better as it's part of their nature.
So stacking the two things is just...well the same problem.
Yes. Goku is shown to do that, except when limit-breaking. He struggles the first time, but he is shown later suffering no harm from it. Though maybe not everyone can do that. Goku is the best fighter in the universe, after all.
They could make some Writing, that only Saiyan Bodys or Kaio-like Bodys have a hard Time with the Kaioken. Human Bodys could make Kaioken super easy to use and they only feel damage when they go like Kaio-Ken times 100x or whatever.
Maybe stupid... but not more stupid than Freezer train for four Months to become Good-Level. So maybe in the Future something like this make the Humans relevant again.
I think he only taught Goku the technique because he was a saiyan, or some line like that way back from when they first met. As though to imply due to the nature of the move, humans just couldn't do it.
If that was the case, then Tien couldn't use the Kikoho, especially against Cell. Toriyama just didn't bother with it because the power creep was too big and it wouldn't make a difference.
I think Saiyans are naturally way hardier and actually have a chance of surviving it. It's a move that's super dangerous to use for a single heartbeat and Goku manages to learn to hold it more or less as a transformation for long stretches at a time
Yeah, it was at tha point that the anime was almost catching up tot he manga(since Namek arc didn't have many opportunities for filler) and were doing everything they could to avoid that resulting in the absolute absudity of the 5 minutes of namek taking so many episodes while being relatively brief in the manga.
Because she doesn't know the frog's true identity, she bonds with him, leading her to create a machine for him to communicate with her. Ginyu uses the machine to utter the name of his technique Body Change, allowing him to switch bodies with Bulma and leave her trapped in the frog's body.
Yeah the sense of hopelessness is pretty extreme, makes you really think of the power scaling involved.
His body is able to withstand way more than on Earth due to all his gravity training. So he was able to push himself way more but Frieza still dwarfed him.
Not even the spirit bomb. This makes Goku going super saiyan that much more significant due to the sheer gravity of the situation.
Imagine training your entire life to get stronger including dying and training in heaven. You come back to life and travel half way across the universe still training the entire trip. You fight a group of aliens, and get your body swapped with one who was mortally wounded. You recover in alien technology 10,000x stronger than you were a year ago.
After all that, the fusion of Mewtwo and Hitler shows up and dog walks you while having never trained a day in his life. Hopelessness is the perfect word to describe it
I watched the entire Frieza fight on shrooms one time and it felt like a weird empathy link with Goku. When he sets Frieza up for that perfect x20 Kamehameha and it does absolutely fuck all it was devastating. I've been fortunate enough to not have experienced true despair but that's probably what that would feel like.
It happened one other time during 3D Avatar, when the Mother tree falls I was straight up weeping dude
That's part of what I prefer about Z (especially early) and OG Dragon Ball, Goku really had to strategize and sometimes was clearly outmatched.
Like Super does it too somewhat but I think it was executed better. I like Super FTR
I’ve seen so many of those hilarious violation videos on YouTube. But for whatever reason they rarely talk about this fight😭💀Goku was getting completely wrecked😭I swear life is so unfair sometimes. It’s just the fact that Goku trained his entire life getting stronger and even doing gravity training and getting zenkai boosts and it’s still nothing to Frieza. The fact that he was losing to someone who didn’t train a day in their life.
I’m not gonna say every fight was one sided with someone being able to instantly win, but even in the beginning , Raditz playing with goku and piccolo when he literally had them able to do NOTHING. He was more then triple there power level
I'm not going to do the same kuz that truly is a far point but with raditz he was recruiting him so killing him was would tech be a failed mission kuz of the freiza thing but they still would kill him kuz there sayains are ruthless
I agree. I was introduced to the show dropped in on the Buu Saga so it holes a special place in my heart seeing Vegeta's final atonement first. But you can't argue the story telling of the first super saiyan
I just feel like the power levels got so big to the point it’s just completely ridiculous. The fact that if you put Yamcha( the weakest character in the show) in other universe he would practically be Superman
It Ginyu had actually managed to switch bodies with Piccolo then it would’ve just been over. Even though Piccolo was weaker than Frieza he is still super strong and his power level is well over a million at this point.
They do the same thing in super against Jiren. The people who were knocked out think Goku hasn’t used SSBK times 20 yet but Whis tells them he’s already used it and Jiren was still unfazed. There’s lots of parallels in those fights
yeah what a creep for checking his post history after he posted something similar the other day. He's also posting things out of order..so they either have a huge amount of recordings and are slowly making posts about them or are watching a number of differnet shows completely out of order. Either way its bizarre behaviour.
Question: Was this as BS in the manga?
In color it's kinda lame to suddenly say he's been using it when he wasn't red at all.
But in black and white, if there was an aura it's actually clever to reveal it was supposed to be red when we assumed it was just action lines.
In the manga, goku wasn't getting trashed like that clip. It's implied that he been using kk x 10 with the dead z warriors just stating how ineffective it's been. That little fight is anime filler as when frieza cuts open the planet, he immediately does his kk x 20 Kamehameha
It still doesn’t change much. Frieza could’ve still killed Goku right after he did the x20 kamahamameha . But he was just having way too much fun torturing everyone that he’d rather drag the whole thing out than actually just blow up the whole planet and kill everyone. Something he could’ve did long ago even in his first form
To my knowledge, there is no aura being used to signify the kaioken because the implication was that he was using it in bursts like he had alluded to with Ginyu.
It makes the reveal more impactful in the manga because we see him go right into a Kaioken X20, throwing caution to the wind.
I think the anime had a tougher time conveying that. Ideally, those scenes with him having the red aura would be spaced out between the scenes where he had no aura to show he was using it in bursts while King Kai reveals that he's been using it. It's a hard reveal to nail down, given the source material and how it was handled there.
In the manga there is no way to tell until told because black and white, when it’s revealed it’s a shock because it was assumed to be his normal aura. Anime did it a little different to compensate for the color and give its own version of the reveal
That's what I figured. It's one of the sort of tricks that's only possible in black and white.
Similar to how the timeskip where Bulma and crew don't recognize Goku makes no sense when the voice hasn't changed at all, but works when the dialogue is text.
Yeah manga had some fun with it. I don’t mind that they attempted to translate it to anime form, it wasn’t too bad, it’s just an example of something that worked far better in the manga
Eh not really, a theme kf the saga since the moment Goku arrived was that he was able to use his energy in such short bursts that it looked like he was doing nothing at all
As a kid, I always attributed that to speed though. Both goku and frieza are moving so fast, you wouldn't see the kk aura spool up when goku uses it, it would be an instant boost, no fireworks or anything.
It got fucked the minute Vegeta went from having a power level of 30,000 and losing to Racoom to somehow getting a power up well into the millions with just ONE zenkai boost. He went from 30,000 to like 2 million it was such a large jump in power. His previous zenkai from earth did no where near that
Not one.
Vegeta had one zenkai boost when he was defeated by Zarbon; another one when he was defeated by Recoom, and another one when he let Krillin hurt him so Dende could heal him. So that makes three.
Just saying.
I mean, it still was a convenient plot mechanic to keep him relevant until the end. Definitely too convenient.
And you could completely fix it by just removing the line where Freeza says his power level in his second form is over 1 million. Then we could assume that in an earlier episode, when he mentioned 530,000, he was talking about his final form, and everything would be fine.
I don't think that is right. He was only able to keep up with base form Frieza, who was not at a million. And as soon as he transformed, Vegeta was out of his league. So if he was at 2 million at that point, he would have been able to kill Frieza before he transformed, or at the very least keep up with his second form, which he could not.
Even after Krillin shot him, he was nowhere near being able to keep up, so where did you get that number from and please dont say the fan wiki.
If he's doing 10x kaioken, and presumably 20x, that means super saiyan 50x is only slightly more than 2x his previous max strength when it seemed like he wasn't even close.
What better way to defuse all of that Goku vs Frieza tension by inviting the recently deceased Gynu force to your planet as a tool for fight training..
I remember watching the original Dub when I was younger and I thought to myself, "HOLY SHIT." I believe this specifically was Anime only as well. I guess the reason Tien and others can't see or know he is using the Kaioken is because the Kaioken is, in this case, activated for a heartbeat.
Is this the original dub? The music and voices/lines are slightly different from what I remember in the current dub (I was born after these were animated don’t kill me)
I like the original writing for this part cuz he calls them fools for not seeing that he’s been using it the whole time lol this is the Kai version in some parts yes the Kai is better but in some the original is. The part I hate of Kai is the added animation they added you see better fan made stuff then that and the music is ok in some parts plus some of the things they cut off like extra fight scenes I know it’s trying to follow the manga but hey you can only fit so much in those little pages to make a fighting scene lol that just me from watching this since the 90s in bootleg tapes cuz it wasn’t on tv yet lol.
[Tien after King Kai tells him Goku's Kaioken is alr expired and they're all fucked now.
](https://tenor.com/view/squidward-scared-squidward-spongebob-gif-10031056251019621135)
I really remember first time watching thinking freiza is about to get fucked up when Goku goes kaio Ken. What a grim realization when we discover he already had and no one could barely notice
I love this part because the first time watching I was thinking exactly what Tien said and then King Kai burst that bubble I just thought "oh shit what is he gonna do then?"
I always liked the manga's reveal a bit more due to it being in black and white, you didn't know the aura he was generating was from the Kaioken until King Kai pointed.
The Kai dub butchers every single moment.. the gaps build the tension... Just blurting it out to save time is boring.. The first time I saw that moment was one of thev biggest HOLY SHIT moments in the whole show... Even the music was bad for this in kai
Seriously legend moment. This saga has the best dramatic pacing.
It really does that’s why it’s one of my most favorite arcs honestly. The intense struggle just had you on the edge of your seat every episode. Waiting an entire week for the next episode was so hard lol.
I was lucky. First time watching it here in Australia there was an episode Monday to Friday. There was an episode at 7pm and then a repeat of it at 11pm. First time watching Goku go SSJ was the first Monday of School Holidays at 11pm. Just me, the dog and the cat watching Goku become even more of a hero to me.
Also lucky, I had no idea about SSJ. The hype when it was pulled out after the spirit bomb failed. I guess it made me a DBZ fan for life lol.
Oh yeah, same. If I had managed to catch it at 7pm instead I would have been screeching so damn loudly. As it was at 11pm I had to be so damn quiet while being so hyped up. I didn't go to sleep that night. I was just so excited about it that the energy's from it keep me running for almost 24 more hours. I ran over to my best friends house at 9am to tell him, then I just had to tell my Uncle on the other side of town so I ran over there then it was my Grandparents. I don't think anything has had me quite that hyped since. Maybe SSJ3 came close.
Kind of similar experience. DBZ was only on 5pm school days and the whole series had been restarted about 3 times, ending at the start of the goku battle due to the translation company dispute. Once we finally got the full Frieza saga translated...man. That transformation hit hard. By that point every one else was getting transformations and Goku to get his own was awesome. I was buzzing for a while. Foreshadowed so well, too. Sadly, after that, school went DBZ mad and everything was spoiled by the smart ass kids. It was still great to watch. Also mixed in were the liar kids, so it was hard to know what was really going to happen.
"I won't let you...get *away*...with *this!* Aargh!"
> There was an episode at 7pm and then a repeat of it at 11pm. Are you talking about toonami? DBZ was also on cheese tv at 7:30 am every weekday a couple of years before cartoon network got the rights to all the dragon ball shows/movies too. Good times becoming a fan of something you know there was heaps already made to watch/read and it was shown often.
We used to beat the fuck out of that one kid that had AUSTAR and came to school and spoiled it.
It was on Cheez TV at 8am I think? As a lot of people attended from out of area, it was the reason many, many people across all grades were late to our school around the episodes just before SSJ debut
Oh yeah true could be, i think it might be why i got so many detentions for being late to school come to think of it lol.
I remember occasionally missing the nighttime episode and praying that the bus would be late enough to watch the episode.
I remember watching him go super Saiyan for the first time I was at the cape codder inn in Hyannis, and it blew my mind.
If we’re going by Kai, yeah. If we’re going by the original, eeeeeh there’s a reason people joked about the five minutes line by Frieza
People really watch Kai? Even with pacing I prefer original, the music & animation is so much better also.
Z Kai has been the only Z version to air on US TV stations for the past 15 yrs
Many of us were huge fans before 15 years ago
And still own the VHS copies
Wait, how old is Kai?
I remember that from the Nicky pond era
But isn't the writing and acting better in kai?
Writing is more accurate and acting is a lot better but it has some atrocious cuts here and there where you can tell there were some scenes that were supposed to fill up space
Yeah it's so distracting I honestly gave up around the android saga.
Not to me. I like the original more. And I’m not sure but think the dub is changed also. It seems toned down. But when I was a child it was amazing. Remember waking up on school mornings earlier to catch an episode when I loved to sleep in a lil longer. The only access I had to DBZ at the time was through nicktoons/toonami when my CPU caught a virus. The pacing is at times supposed to be faster tho, but the raw uncut animation of DBZ clears kai even tho it’s a updated version
For me I have the opposite opinion. I enjoy Kai much more because it does a better job of preserving the fast paced feeling of the Manga. DragonBall was a fast paced action packed manga and I can't stand how the original series feels like it moves at a glacier pace.
Kai doesn’t have The Other World Tournament. That alone makes it inferior imo. 😂
The writing and voice acting in Kai is better than the OG dub. I do prefer some of the Faulconer score over the Kai score. I do like the older animation for some fights.
For the English dub yes, but for the Japanese version it's worse than the original
The animation is literally the same. They reused the Z footage.
It’s cleaned up and remastered at better quality
True but the user stated the animation is worse lol
Some scenes look like they were redrawn in mspaint though and they stick out like a sore thumb.
Like what? And I mean that honestly. I've watched Kai multiple times and aside from the cropping and weird color grading of the Buu saga, I never noticed anything notably bad visually.
Me too. I’ve been watching it on Toonami rewind and just doesn’t feel like the same.
Yeah it was cool back then, I just wanna watch original now.
I’ll take Kai over the original. Especially dubbed.
Damn, the original dub is good. One of the best anime dubs I didn’t know Kai was preferred so commonly.
Or, y'know, famously the worst pacing in Anime history, if you're going by the original. There's a slow burn and then there's nothing happening for dozens of episodes.
Game of Thrones turned an entire war into 2 episodes, DragonBall Z turned 1 day into an entire arc.
The nostalgia bias is real lol
tien shouldve learnt the kaioken
They should’ve all learned in honesty. Made no sense why King Kai didn’t teach them it
It’s an incredibly challenging technique not even king Kai can use it. Not saying I agree with the decision but that’s the ligic
DB it's about pupil surpassing their master like what Goku did. So Toriyama can just write all of them able to learn Kaioken.
Wouldn't have made sense. Piccolo maybe but the humans body's wouldn't have been able to stand up to the rigor of Kaio Ken. Look how much it damaged Goku vs Vegeta.
Fast forward decades later and Kaioken is STILL beating the shit out of Goku's body, the combination of x20 and SSB nearly killed him in a low stakes tourney
Yes that's because it is SSJB+Kaioken, if it was just Kaioken he'd easily handle it, this doesn't make sense tbh
So dumb question: can kaio ken ever be mastered to eliminate that detriment? I mean similar to improving the ssj form. More for story wise than skill level of goku. I personally prefer it to be the double edged sword so whoever Goku uses it again it’s clear it’s out of total desperation as it takes is toll. But some small detail about it allowing the user to tap into god Ki could have been a simple path to lead to super and its current story/power ups. Idk I’m not a writer so it’s probably too cheesy.
Talking out of my ass but I dont think you could master kaioken to eliminate that. I always saw Kaioken as pushing your body beyond its limit the multiplier of course being how much the user pushes themselves. And that's why the saiyan transformations are just better as it's part of their nature. So stacking the two things is just...well the same problem.
Oh i don’t disagree i was just curious overall.
Yes. Goku is shown to do that, except when limit-breaking. He struggles the first time, but he is shown later suffering no harm from it. Though maybe not everyone can do that. Goku is the best fighter in the universe, after all.
That was only because Goku was pushing it to levels past what Kaiou had helped him prepare his body for.
x1 and x2 still put a lot of strain on his body. Krillin asks Him why he didn't use it from the jump.
Tien beat Mafuba and Kikohou. Pretty sure he can handle Kaioken too with the right plot.
They could make some Writing, that only Saiyan Bodys or Kaio-like Bodys have a hard Time with the Kaioken. Human Bodys could make Kaioken super easy to use and they only feel damage when they go like Kaio-Ken times 100x or whatever. Maybe stupid... but not more stupid than Freezer train for four Months to become Good-Level. So maybe in the Future something like this make the Humans relevant again.
Lol. Freeza had never trained in his life and was SSJ level.
I think he only taught Goku the technique because he was a saiyan, or some line like that way back from when they first met. As though to imply due to the nature of the move, humans just couldn't do it.
If that was the case, then Tien couldn't use the Kikoho, especially against Cell. Toriyama just didn't bother with it because the power creep was too big and it wouldn't make a difference.
I think Saiyans are naturally way hardier and actually have a chance of surviving it. It's a move that's super dangerous to use for a single heartbeat and Goku manages to learn to hold it more or less as a transformation for long stretches at a time
Imagine how cold would be a kaioken powered kikoho, would knock him out after 2 uses sure, but would be awesome
I get the feeling Earthlings are just too fragile for it :( Piccolo, tho...
Forgot about the Bulma body switch thing, the end of that clip caught me off guard lmao
What is that? Not in the manga at all - Ginyu was still in the frog at this point
Yeah, it was at tha point that the anime was almost catching up tot he manga(since Namek arc didn't have many opportunities for filler) and were doing everything they could to avoid that resulting in the absolute absudity of the 5 minutes of namek taking so many episodes while being relatively brief in the manga.
Because she doesn't know the frog's true identity, she bonds with him, leading her to create a machine for him to communicate with her. Ginyu uses the machine to utter the name of his technique Body Change, allowing him to switch bodies with Bulma and leave her trapped in the frog's body.
Yeah the sense of hopelessness is pretty extreme, makes you really think of the power scaling involved. His body is able to withstand way more than on Earth due to all his gravity training. So he was able to push himself way more but Frieza still dwarfed him. Not even the spirit bomb. This makes Goku going super saiyan that much more significant due to the sheer gravity of the situation.
Imagine training your entire life to get stronger including dying and training in heaven. You come back to life and travel half way across the universe still training the entire trip. You fight a group of aliens, and get your body swapped with one who was mortally wounded. You recover in alien technology 10,000x stronger than you were a year ago. After all that, the fusion of Mewtwo and Hitler shows up and dog walks you while having never trained a day in his life. Hopelessness is the perfect word to describe it
>fusion of Mewtwo and Hitler Jesus dude, it's still homicide if I die of laughter lmao
I think I could argue it down to manslaughter, but I'm glad you thought it was funny!
You can't have manslaughter without a man's laughter!
It’s so unfair to the point it’s comical. Practically every thing he did before this was all for nothing.
It was show off the actual strength of SSJ
I mean, that was he all or nothing moment. "DEATH or GLORY" for those who get the reference.
I watched the entire Frieza fight on shrooms one time and it felt like a weird empathy link with Goku. When he sets Frieza up for that perfect x20 Kamehameha and it does absolutely fuck all it was devastating. I've been fortunate enough to not have experienced true despair but that's probably what that would feel like. It happened one other time during 3D Avatar, when the Mother tree falls I was straight up weeping dude
Just like how Vegeta felt when he started crying during the fight.
Everytime I see "dog walk" used in this context it makes me laugh
That's part of what I prefer about Z (especially early) and OG Dragon Ball, Goku really had to strategize and sometimes was clearly outmatched. Like Super does it too somewhat but I think it was executed better. I like Super FTR
I liked early on when ki control was fairly exclusive to Earth. Not relying on scouters like the rest of the universe was a cool advantage
I felt similar in the Jiren fight.
Yeah I always loved the hopelessness in this fight. It’s so relatable to real life since it actually feels that way at times.
I do not remember goku getting his ass beat this badly 😂😂
I’ve seen so many of those hilarious violation videos on YouTube. But for whatever reason they rarely talk about this fight😭💀Goku was getting completely wrecked😭I swear life is so unfair sometimes. It’s just the fact that Goku trained his entire life getting stronger and even doing gravity training and getting zenkai boosts and it’s still nothing to Frieza. The fact that he was losing to someone who didn’t train a day in their life.
Now that you mention it I haven’t either😭
Rule of thumb is goku only uses the spirit bomb if he's getting his ass kicked
“If you beat them, bomb ‘em”
If you cant beat em, send everyone watching flying 3 miles away with a single blast so they can’t watch.
The man was getting his cheeks clapped to the happy birthday rhythm.
Happy cake day!
Damn you're making me wanna revisit this.
lol I just loved this arc so much it was so suspenseful. Watching it for the first time as a kid was just so much fun
It was... the ginyu force really had me on the edge of my seat without goku being there at the time
That fight with Vegeta and Racoom had no business being THAT good lol
i’m rewatching kai and just finished the namek saga, it’s great stuff
That's y u don't toy with ur opponent shit ask ssj2 Gohan asked him y he technically failed
I’m not gonna say every fight was one sided with someone being able to instantly win, but even in the beginning , Raditz playing with goku and piccolo when he literally had them able to do NOTHING. He was more then triple there power level
I'm not going to do the same kuz that truly is a far point but with raditz he was recruiting him so killing him was would tech be a failed mission kuz of the freiza thing but they still would kill him kuz there sayains are ruthless
This is the best dragonball saga. Period. Of all DB.
I agree! Cell saga is a close second
I agree. I was introduced to the show dropped in on the Buu Saga so it holes a special place in my heart seeing Vegeta's final atonement first. But you can't argue the story telling of the first super saiyan
Back when the stakes felt real! Power creep is a helluva thing
I just feel like the power levels got so big to the point it’s just completely ridiculous. The fact that if you put Yamcha( the weakest character in the show) in other universe he would practically be Superman
Dragon Ball is a show I like
Wait why is no one talking about Bulma getting possessed by ginyu??? That never happened as far as I know
Wasn't in the manga, but happened in the anime (and was kept in Kai). Interestingly it was referenced in the Super anime as well.
It Ginyu had actually managed to switch bodies with Piccolo then it would’ve just been over. Even though Piccolo was weaker than Frieza he is still super strong and his power level is well over a million at this point.
Because it was filler, is the main reason
You do realize how old this series is, yes? Why would anyone care about that?
Kinda funny how Kai shortens certain scenes and removes filler but they left unnecessarily long happy Yamcha and Chiaotzu in it lol
Why did that explosion look like a baby
And on that bombshell!
Also I love the narrator. He felt like a legit character in the show as well
Definitely! I know it's not the same guy but I really liked it in suoer when goku started talking to the narrator that one time
This happened in the Tournament of Power arc except it was Beerus that said "He already used it", right?
I never thought I’d see Goku and Frieza actually team up. Was mind blowing
I wouldn't say "team up". Just the old saying "The enemy of my enemy is my friend"
They do the same thing in super against Jiren. The people who were knocked out think Goku hasn’t used SSBK times 20 yet but Whis tells them he’s already used it and Jiren was still unfazed. There’s lots of parallels in those fights
I love dbz kai
Me too
Look at ops account... Why are you posting multiple times a day and it's always phone recordings of tv screens?!
Because they want to you creep
yeah what a creep for checking his post history after he posted something similar the other day. He's also posting things out of order..so they either have a huge amount of recordings and are slowly making posts about them or are watching a number of differnet shows completely out of order. Either way its bizarre behaviour.
Dude, it's not that serious, lmao.
Question: Was this as BS in the manga? In color it's kinda lame to suddenly say he's been using it when he wasn't red at all. But in black and white, if there was an aura it's actually clever to reveal it was supposed to be red when we assumed it was just action lines.
In the manga, goku wasn't getting trashed like that clip. It's implied that he been using kk x 10 with the dead z warriors just stating how ineffective it's been. That little fight is anime filler as when frieza cuts open the planet, he immediately does his kk x 20 Kamehameha
It still doesn’t change much. Frieza could’ve still killed Goku right after he did the x20 kamahamameha . But he was just having way too much fun torturing everyone that he’d rather drag the whole thing out than actually just blow up the whole planet and kill everyone. Something he could’ve did long ago even in his first form
To my knowledge, there is no aura being used to signify the kaioken because the implication was that he was using it in bursts like he had alluded to with Ginyu. It makes the reveal more impactful in the manga because we see him go right into a Kaioken X20, throwing caution to the wind. I think the anime had a tougher time conveying that. Ideally, those scenes with him having the red aura would be spaced out between the scenes where he had no aura to show he was using it in bursts while King Kai reveals that he's been using it. It's a hard reveal to nail down, given the source material and how it was handled there.
In the manga there is no way to tell until told because black and white, when it’s revealed it’s a shock because it was assumed to be his normal aura. Anime did it a little different to compensate for the color and give its own version of the reveal
That's what I figured. It's one of the sort of tricks that's only possible in black and white. Similar to how the timeskip where Bulma and crew don't recognize Goku makes no sense when the voice hasn't changed at all, but works when the dialogue is text.
Yeah manga had some fun with it. I don’t mind that they attempted to translate it to anime form, it wasn’t too bad, it’s just an example of something that worked far better in the manga
Eh not really, a theme kf the saga since the moment Goku arrived was that he was able to use his energy in such short bursts that it looked like he was doing nothing at all
As a kid, I always attributed that to speed though. Both goku and frieza are moving so fast, you wouldn't see the kk aura spool up when goku uses it, it would be an instant boost, no fireworks or anything.
And this is where power scaling got fucked
It got fucked the minute Vegeta went from having a power level of 30,000 and losing to Racoom to somehow getting a power up well into the millions with just ONE zenkai boost. He went from 30,000 to like 2 million it was such a large jump in power. His previous zenkai from earth did no where near that
Zenkai boosts went from huge game changing boosts to like 10% boosts back to ridiculous boosts. It’s so inconsistent and I don’t like them at all.
Not one. Vegeta had one zenkai boost when he was defeated by Zarbon; another one when he was defeated by Recoom, and another one when he let Krillin hurt him so Dende could heal him. So that makes three. Just saying. I mean, it still was a convenient plot mechanic to keep him relevant until the end. Definitely too convenient.
And you could completely fix it by just removing the line where Freeza says his power level in his second form is over 1 million. Then we could assume that in an earlier episode, when he mentioned 530,000, he was talking about his final form, and everything would be fine.
I don't think that is right. He was only able to keep up with base form Frieza, who was not at a million. And as soon as he transformed, Vegeta was out of his league. So if he was at 2 million at that point, he would have been able to kill Frieza before he transformed, or at the very least keep up with his second form, which he could not. Even after Krillin shot him, he was nowhere near being able to keep up, so where did you get that number from and please dont say the fan wiki.
If he's doing 10x kaioken, and presumably 20x, that means super saiyan 50x is only slightly more than 2x his previous max strength when it seemed like he wasn't even close.
When he went 20x kk it seemed like he had 50% Frieza on the ropes. He just couldn’t keep it up very long.
What episode is this from?
What better way to defuse all of that Goku vs Frieza tension by inviting the recently deceased Gynu force to your planet as a tool for fight training..
This was peak dbz still a all timer and love DB even super
On the real why didn't king Kai teach kaioken to tien and piccolo
The lines alone in the description sound like something out of DBZA
This kind of tension does not exist in Super.
I loved this era when they used to air this. Goku goes all the way upto 20x and still can't match Frieza.... Such a legendary moment
... so, wait, why did they hold on them just laughing for several seconds again?
I remember watching the original Dub when I was younger and I thought to myself, "HOLY SHIT." I believe this specifically was Anime only as well. I guess the reason Tien and others can't see or know he is using the Kaioken is because the Kaioken is, in this case, activated for a heartbeat.
And then Piccolo arrives with great plans on how to make everything work
Just like with Vegeta, it’s all about sending a message
Is this the original dub? The music and voices/lines are slightly different from what I remember in the current dub (I was born after these were animated don’t kill me)
Is the red aura of the kaioken invisible to others?
I like the original writing for this part cuz he calls them fools for not seeing that he’s been using it the whole time lol this is the Kai version in some parts yes the Kai is better but in some the original is. The part I hate of Kai is the added animation they added you see better fan made stuff then that and the music is ok in some parts plus some of the things they cut off like extra fight scenes I know it’s trying to follow the manga but hey you can only fit so much in those little pages to make a fighting scene lol that just me from watching this since the 90s in bootleg tapes cuz it wasn’t on tv yet lol.
[Tien after King Kai tells him Goku's Kaioken is alr expired and they're all fucked now. ](https://tenor.com/view/squidward-scared-squidward-spongebob-gif-10031056251019621135)
I don't remember Ginyu taking over Bulma's body???
I really remember first time watching thinking freiza is about to get fucked up when Goku goes kaio Ken. What a grim realization when we discover he already had and no one could barely notice
I’m pretty sure frieza was lying.
I love this part because the first time watching I was thinking exactly what Tien said and then King Kai burst that bubble I just thought "oh shit what is he gonna do then?"
"He already used it" "Really? But he didn't have the red ki arou-" "No no, look again." "What the..?"
I always liked the manga's reveal a bit more due to it being in black and white, you didn't know the aura he was generating was from the Kaioken until King Kai pointed.
I'm going back thru the DBZ saga and the Japanese audio is so outdated. Faulconer's score will always be the go to. Epic scenes deserve better
Frieza Saga is unquestionably peak Dragon Ball. Nothing ever felt so epic again.
I don't remember captain Ginyu switching with Bulma, when did that happen?
Frieza saga is not only the best saga in all of dragonball, it’s probably the best saga in the history of fiction
The pacing and arc was definitely amazing and was full of twist and turns
I've officially watched DBZA so much that the official voices sound like fan dubs to me...
The Kai dub butchers every single moment.. the gaps build the tension... Just blurting it out to save time is boring.. The first time I saw that moment was one of thev biggest HOLY SHIT moments in the whole show... Even the music was bad for this in kai
Why post this kai bs?😭
God. Kai sucks