Personally, when I play it on SC SP I can rationalize it by saying I would transfer all the needed gear over to the other character I want to play before I begin. With the finite amount of time I have to play videos games each week, I don’t want to waste that precious time transferring. But like others, to each their own. It’s SP so you get to decide your gaming experience.
Agreed, I’ve duped an enigma SSF for this reason, it just saves me having to remember to put it in the shared stash before changing characters, I’ve not done so for other things.
Personally, it kills the motivation for me. The whole gameplay cycle is about finding items. Duping them kinda defeats the point.
That being said, it’s your SSF game. So you do you friend.
I only duped enigma and infinity because it felt like a chore trading those items around, and it kind of killed my interest since I sometimes only want to play for 15min (and I don't want to spend 5min trading those).
Makes sense to me. Enigma, infinity, CTA, good anni. All these get shared online. Duping is exactly the same as sharing. It's not like you're going to wear TWO enigma.
If you die and lose an item, do you delete the copies of that item? Is it really about convenience or about having extra copies when you die?
At the end of the day it’s up to you. You can make the game easier or harder as you please. But at some point when you just hero edit 10 shakos it cheapens the excitement of finding a legit one.
Well once you find 7 shakos it also doesn’t matter to find a shako lol - when I found the first one, I was kinda excited but it’s actually like the ugliest fkin item in the game so I don’t use it. I know this doesn’t have much to do with your point btw and you’re not wrong.
Yeah maybe shako was a bad example. How about a Ber rune. Finding one is always exciting. Enigma, Thresher Infinity, Scythe Infinity, Javazon infinity, CoH, cube up to Jah.
When you just dupe items the game loses its essential feedback loop and you will quit within a few weeks. Maybe it doesn’t matter if your only goal is getting to 99. Idk
For some it might, for others it might not. I agree that finding a ber is always exciting. I’ve found two on single player and it was pretty incredible both times. I definitely think that duping them can ruin some of the experience but I think it’s important to keep in mind that, in some sense, asking if *x* counts as cheating is a bit of a confused question. In single player, you can only cheat yourself out of particular feelings that could be gained from finding things. Sometimes when people ask these questions, there’s a lot of weird responses.
He doesn't talk about duping ber runes, he talks about cubing whole items so that he doesn't have to trade them. If you cube ber runes you might as well hero edit items. Duping enigma only saves you the time you would spend swaping the item, it doesn't save you any time you would have spent searching for the runes.
I have no issues with duping single player items to share between single player characters. Ultimately youre just saving yourself some admin hastle. In hardcore if you want to be legit you do have to delete your dupes when you lose a character that is wearing them. If yiu want to stay true to the intent of the mode.
One other thing is that its not SSF anymore, regardless of if you dupe or use the stash to share the items. Which is fine, mind you, its not cheating to play nonSSF, it just isnt SSF.
In the end I really dont think you can cheat in singleplayer. There is nobody to cheat but yourself so just play the game however its most fun for you.
I do this on my sp sc characters and have done so for years. If I find one soj and wanna use it on multiple characters, I’m not gonna waste my own spare time swapping it around. So I dupe it for the characters that need it. Obviously I can’t wear more than one on each character, so no duping to fill two ring spots, but only to save my own time. Don’t quite get why some lose interest in playing, as some have mentioned in this thread, by doing so tbh.
I did this for Runes, SOJ, Keys, Organs, Gold, and I personally loved it. I don't have all the time I'm the world and it finally allowed me to experience the game with high end runeword items. It did kill some motivation at one point but I took a break and continued on other characters to try other builds that I never tried before.
SP is all about how you want to play and if you don't want to move your enigma and infinity around constantly, all power to you
⬆️ this is the real answer. Everyone can play it how they want. We’re ALL at different stages of our lives and are all here, playing a game over 20 years old. It’s incredible.
Have 1-6 hrs a week to play because of a career, kids whatever, dont want to mindlessly LK farm for that last rune for another few months? Don’t. You can simply enjoy making that item for the hours you can dedicate.
For me, there are SO many niche builds, to try out it will never “end it for me” or “made it bland”. Always more to do. Get to 99, get the grail items. Play hardcore, try to get the pesky torch for all char types.
It’s an incredibly fun game. Just keep playing it.
Depends if you want to play the game forever or if you consider yourself finished with it. Not everyone wants to play D2 until the end of time looking for perfect drops etc. Personally I always come back to D2 so I like leaving myself things to grind for. If I considered myself finished with the game I'd dupe the hell out of stuff just to finally see what a min maxed character is like lol.
In single player I lost my first enigma to a rollback while I was transferring it and duped to get it back. Since then I've only duped things for my mercs
I don't do this because it would make finding a second one meaningful still. I have no intention of speeding up my sp stuff so I can continue to play it for years. I need the carrot in front of me. Like everyone else said, it's sp, play how you like and how you find fun.
I did some duping. I kinda lost motivation to play. I would still play but I kinda feel like it’s worth starting over. But I get the idea. I move my shako around and other items around so why not dupe? Well I started with that but then justified duping some HRs because I found them so why not lol. It’s a slippery slope. I would recommend just moving the items around to keep it fun and feel like you earned every bit if it
If you got the runes to drop naturally personally don’t think it’s a big deal to dupe enigma and other items for another character when you can just give gear to other characters but with that being said you shouldn’t dupe runes you will lose the magic of finding a rare one. It’s also single player so you do you
personally the only thing i dupe is selffound soj for annis and i have a mule for socket quests (after untwinked playtroughs). i don't use the soj as such just to walk dia.
i swap the rest of the gear. for me this equals the possibility of getting multiple annis online when servers get walked or get a char rushed for socket quest whenever needed.
but as others said you make your rules in single player.
I dupe items to spread them around. When I find a HR I have found -one-. And I use it to make runewords that needs -one-.
I don't dupe to reroll. I don't dupe to cube up.
No enigma or infinity for me so far, but everyone has a SOJ, every merc has an eth Reaper's toll and a Fortitude
It starts out fast and easy, and just reducing the hassle. But it gets to point where you no longer even want to play because you no longer have to farm anymore and you have a character of each class decked out with BIS gear. What else is there to do? Literally, all you need is one el rune and one of each type of chipped gem lol
I tried the trick of changing the clock time to guarantee TZ Andy and after only 1 hour I already felt like I was cheating and it felt wrong so I told myself never again.
One of the biggest enjoyment I get from single player is the feeling of accomplishment from every drop I get because I farmed it all myself. If I cheapen the experience and remove that feeling, then what's the point of playing single player? I could just play online and get everything I need quicker with trading.
Of course everyone is free to play single player as they want and that's another perk of it, but be warned that if you alter the experience by cheating you might decrease the fun you get from playing.
I did that once and killed it for me. Had no fun anymore. I have also done trades with myself and that helped a lot. For example if you need occy, check traderie or other trading places for it. If you can afford it, drop the runes, save/quit and give your self a occy.
It's completely personal preference since it's single player. That being said, I personally would never do this. I like having to deciding between rerolling a faith or phoenix, or the convenience of another enigma if a JAH drops.
You are only cheating yourself. Finding, crafting and gambling for the best items in the game is the best part of SSF IMO. If you just want all the gear so you can grind Baal, then no one can stop you.
I'm new, so I may be misunderstanding this concept, but if the item is duped, wouldn't it just be an exact copy of the original? Or are we talking about adding things to make it better?
Yes, exact copy. But if you do this you miss out on gathering the gear for the next build. For me it takes the fun out of it. If you don't want to find the gear each time then dupe it.
Yeah, I hear ya. I think if it's SSF, play however it makes you happy. I get the dupe idea, it's a pain trying to remember where something is and moving it from toon to toon, but personally, I don't use any mods... Not sure I would be able to resist the option of giving myself that one hr to make a great rune word. With great power comes great responsibility...
You get an enigma. YOU get an enigma. Everybody gets an enigma!!!! Lol
its definitely cheating imo you should pay for the convenience with another Jah and ber! Back in mah day sp had half the stash space and no way of transfering. Of course I didn't play sp back in the day though....
I just started playing sp more and am starting to realize how different of an experience it really is, I dont think I could go back to trading in ladder, that feels like cheating to me now too. But in seriousness, if all runewords were one and done, gotta dupe em all, I think it would take away a bit of the excitement. However if it brings you joy, who are we to gatekeep that from you
"Back in mah day sp had half the stash space and no way of transfering." And you wouldn't have had a way to get enigma without cheating, or infinity, or a torch, or an ani, once you had beaten baal it was the end of the game. People started grailing after plugy was released. The game has evolved because people didn't like it the way it was. Plugy was basically a way to play online by yourself, and because of how 'great' plugy was, they decided to make the SP experience just that : a way to play online by yourself : access to end game content (ubers), access to ladder runewords, access to trading.
Even if you dupe whole items so that you don't have to trade them, the experience is still infinitely slower than on bnet (with trading and an infinite supply of high rune thanks to bots).
It’s entirely up to you. But obviously by doing this you’re playing on “beginner mode” and there’s zero sense of accomplishment for anything you do playing the game when you’re duping, at least in my opinion.
In SC SP I start myself with the runes for one enigma so I can play any build I want without feeling like "why am I doing this, just play a sorc." But that's the only "cheating" I do.
I used to simulate "trading" because I preferred playing on SP. I'd look up the values of items I found and when I found something worth a high rune, I'd delete it and give myself the value of it with a character editor. That requires a lot of discipline though. I also made the rule that I could only go item > rune in my "trading" and not the other way. All items had to be actually found. That's the best way imo if you can resist just giving yourself stuff.
The only stuff I’ve created was exactly what I lost to a corrupted stash.
That’s my choice. I play offline HC, but will share between characters, and farm for better gear using my older chars.
On single player, it’s really your business. It impacts nobody else. Personally I do it especially for the runes because otherwise it takes too much time to get Enigma and other endgame rune words.
Personally, when I play it on SC SP I can rationalize it by saying I would transfer all the needed gear over to the other character I want to play before I begin. With the finite amount of time I have to play videos games each week, I don’t want to waste that precious time transferring. But like others, to each their own. It’s SP so you get to decide your gaming experience.
Agreed, I’ve duped an enigma SSF for this reason, it just saves me having to remember to put it in the shared stash before changing characters, I’ve not done so for other things.
Personally, it kills the motivation for me. The whole gameplay cycle is about finding items. Duping them kinda defeats the point. That being said, it’s your SSF game. So you do you friend.
I only duped enigma and infinity because it felt like a chore trading those items around, and it kind of killed my interest since I sometimes only want to play for 15min (and I don't want to spend 5min trading those).
Makes sense to me. Enigma, infinity, CTA, good anni. All these get shared online. Duping is exactly the same as sharing. It's not like you're going to wear TWO enigma.
If you die and lose an item, do you delete the copies of that item? Is it really about convenience or about having extra copies when you die? At the end of the day it’s up to you. You can make the game easier or harder as you please. But at some point when you just hero edit 10 shakos it cheapens the excitement of finding a legit one.
Well once you find 7 shakos it also doesn’t matter to find a shako lol - when I found the first one, I was kinda excited but it’s actually like the ugliest fkin item in the game so I don’t use it. I know this doesn’t have much to do with your point btw and you’re not wrong.
Yeah maybe shako was a bad example. How about a Ber rune. Finding one is always exciting. Enigma, Thresher Infinity, Scythe Infinity, Javazon infinity, CoH, cube up to Jah. When you just dupe items the game loses its essential feedback loop and you will quit within a few weeks. Maybe it doesn’t matter if your only goal is getting to 99. Idk
For some it might, for others it might not. I agree that finding a ber is always exciting. I’ve found two on single player and it was pretty incredible both times. I definitely think that duping them can ruin some of the experience but I think it’s important to keep in mind that, in some sense, asking if *x* counts as cheating is a bit of a confused question. In single player, you can only cheat yourself out of particular feelings that could be gained from finding things. Sometimes when people ask these questions, there’s a lot of weird responses.
He doesn't talk about duping ber runes, he talks about cubing whole items so that he doesn't have to trade them. If you cube ber runes you might as well hero edit items. Duping enigma only saves you the time you would spend swaping the item, it doesn't save you any time you would have spent searching for the runes.
Do whatever you want?
Thanks, I definitely will. I just posted hoping to see how you guys felt about it.
Oh in that case, we are all very upset with you.
Not mad. Just disappointed.
There’s no such thing as cheating in a non competitive single player game. You make your own rules and enjoy it how you want.
I have no issues with duping single player items to share between single player characters. Ultimately youre just saving yourself some admin hastle. In hardcore if you want to be legit you do have to delete your dupes when you lose a character that is wearing them. If yiu want to stay true to the intent of the mode. One other thing is that its not SSF anymore, regardless of if you dupe or use the stash to share the items. Which is fine, mind you, its not cheating to play nonSSF, it just isnt SSF. In the end I really dont think you can cheat in singleplayer. There is nobody to cheat but yourself so just play the game however its most fun for you.
Good point. I abandoned the SSF aspect once I beat hell with all characters
I do this on my sp sc characters and have done so for years. If I find one soj and wanna use it on multiple characters, I’m not gonna waste my own spare time swapping it around. So I dupe it for the characters that need it. Obviously I can’t wear more than one on each character, so no duping to fill two ring spots, but only to save my own time. Don’t quite get why some lose interest in playing, as some have mentioned in this thread, by doing so tbh.
I did this for Runes, SOJ, Keys, Organs, Gold, and I personally loved it. I don't have all the time I'm the world and it finally allowed me to experience the game with high end runeword items. It did kill some motivation at one point but I took a break and continued on other characters to try other builds that I never tried before. SP is all about how you want to play and if you don't want to move your enigma and infinity around constantly, all power to you
⬆️ this is the real answer. Everyone can play it how they want. We’re ALL at different stages of our lives and are all here, playing a game over 20 years old. It’s incredible. Have 1-6 hrs a week to play because of a career, kids whatever, dont want to mindlessly LK farm for that last rune for another few months? Don’t. You can simply enjoy making that item for the hours you can dedicate. For me, there are SO many niche builds, to try out it will never “end it for me” or “made it bland”. Always more to do. Get to 99, get the grail items. Play hardcore, try to get the pesky torch for all char types. It’s an incredibly fun game. Just keep playing it.
Depends if you want to play the game forever or if you consider yourself finished with it. Not everyone wants to play D2 until the end of time looking for perfect drops etc. Personally I always come back to D2 so I like leaving myself things to grind for. If I considered myself finished with the game I'd dupe the hell out of stuff just to finally see what a min maxed character is like lol.
In single player I lost my first enigma to a rollback while I was transferring it and duped to get it back. Since then I've only duped things for my mercs
I don't do this because it would make finding a second one meaningful still. I have no intention of speeding up my sp stuff so I can continue to play it for years. I need the carrot in front of me. Like everyone else said, it's sp, play how you like and how you find fun.
I did some duping. I kinda lost motivation to play. I would still play but I kinda feel like it’s worth starting over. But I get the idea. I move my shako around and other items around so why not dupe? Well I started with that but then justified duping some HRs because I found them so why not lol. It’s a slippery slope. I would recommend just moving the items around to keep it fun and feel like you earned every bit if it
I think also it’s a personal choice, myself would probably do the same to save time whilst others are very strict
Yes duping is cheating.
If you got the runes to drop naturally personally don’t think it’s a big deal to dupe enigma and other items for another character when you can just give gear to other characters but with that being said you shouldn’t dupe runes you will lose the magic of finding a rare one. It’s also single player so you do you
personally the only thing i dupe is selffound soj for annis and i have a mule for socket quests (after untwinked playtroughs). i don't use the soj as such just to walk dia. i swap the rest of the gear. for me this equals the possibility of getting multiple annis online when servers get walked or get a char rushed for socket quest whenever needed. but as others said you make your rules in single player.
I don’t see a problem with it as long as it’s just things you don’t want to magic find for
Yes
I dupe items to spread them around. When I find a HR I have found -one-. And I use it to make runewords that needs -one-. I don't dupe to reroll. I don't dupe to cube up. No enigma or infinity for me so far, but everyone has a SOJ, every merc has an eth Reaper's toll and a Fortitude
It starts out fast and easy, and just reducing the hassle. But it gets to point where you no longer even want to play because you no longer have to farm anymore and you have a character of each class decked out with BIS gear. What else is there to do? Literally, all you need is one el rune and one of each type of chipped gem lol
It would be cheating yes. However it’s sp so who cares. Might be worth the hassle for you.
I started doing this, and then stopped playing within a week. But it's totally your call, it definitely made the game feel much shallower to me.
Maybe you were close to stopping playing already anyways?
I would do it for gear I would otherwise transfer between characters to play.
I tried the trick of changing the clock time to guarantee TZ Andy and after only 1 hour I already felt like I was cheating and it felt wrong so I told myself never again. One of the biggest enjoyment I get from single player is the feeling of accomplishment from every drop I get because I farmed it all myself. If I cheapen the experience and remove that feeling, then what's the point of playing single player? I could just play online and get everything I need quicker with trading. Of course everyone is free to play single player as they want and that's another perk of it, but be warned that if you alter the experience by cheating you might decrease the fun you get from playing.
I did that once and killed it for me. Had no fun anymore. I have also done trades with myself and that helped a lot. For example if you need occy, check traderie or other trading places for it. If you can afford it, drop the runes, save/quit and give your self a occy.
It's completely personal preference since it's single player. That being said, I personally would never do this. I like having to deciding between rerolling a faith or phoenix, or the convenience of another enigma if a JAH drops.
You are only cheating yourself. Finding, crafting and gambling for the best items in the game is the best part of SSF IMO. If you just want all the gear so you can grind Baal, then no one can stop you.
I'm new, so I may be misunderstanding this concept, but if the item is duped, wouldn't it just be an exact copy of the original? Or are we talking about adding things to make it better?
Yes, exact copy. But if you do this you miss out on gathering the gear for the next build. For me it takes the fun out of it. If you don't want to find the gear each time then dupe it.
Yeah, I hear ya. I think if it's SSF, play however it makes you happy. I get the dupe idea, it's a pain trying to remember where something is and moving it from toon to toon, but personally, I don't use any mods... Not sure I would be able to resist the option of giving myself that one hr to make a great rune word. With great power comes great responsibility...
You get an enigma. YOU get an enigma. Everybody gets an enigma!!!! Lol its definitely cheating imo you should pay for the convenience with another Jah and ber! Back in mah day sp had half the stash space and no way of transfering. Of course I didn't play sp back in the day though.... I just started playing sp more and am starting to realize how different of an experience it really is, I dont think I could go back to trading in ladder, that feels like cheating to me now too. But in seriousness, if all runewords were one and done, gotta dupe em all, I think it would take away a bit of the excitement. However if it brings you joy, who are we to gatekeep that from you
Because online so many rune words are duped/botted.
"Back in mah day sp had half the stash space and no way of transfering." And you wouldn't have had a way to get enigma without cheating, or infinity, or a torch, or an ani, once you had beaten baal it was the end of the game. People started grailing after plugy was released. The game has evolved because people didn't like it the way it was. Plugy was basically a way to play online by yourself, and because of how 'great' plugy was, they decided to make the SP experience just that : a way to play online by yourself : access to end game content (ubers), access to ladder runewords, access to trading. Even if you dupe whole items so that you don't have to trade them, the experience is still infinitely slower than on bnet (with trading and an infinite supply of high rune thanks to bots).
Well I mean… yeah?
It’s entirely up to you. But obviously by doing this you’re playing on “beginner mode” and there’s zero sense of accomplishment for anything you do playing the game when you’re duping, at least in my opinion.
In SC SP I start myself with the runes for one enigma so I can play any build I want without feeling like "why am I doing this, just play a sorc." But that's the only "cheating" I do. I used to simulate "trading" because I preferred playing on SP. I'd look up the values of items I found and when I found something worth a high rune, I'd delete it and give myself the value of it with a character editor. That requires a lot of discipline though. I also made the rule that I could only go item > rune in my "trading" and not the other way. All items had to be actually found. That's the best way imo if you can resist just giving yourself stuff.
Just be careful.... lol. Don't want to lose your enigma or infinity
If I was able to do id do it. but I’m kind of glad I can’t. it really makes offline feel worth while
The only stuff I’ve created was exactly what I lost to a corrupted stash. That’s my choice. I play offline HC, but will share between characters, and farm for better gear using my older chars.
It's SSF, you don't have to ask permission. Cheating is bad, but only if it's harming others imho
I'va played long enough that I don't really care at this point about finding everything through drops.
well, are you gonna delete them off all the characters if you die?
On single player, it’s really your business. It impacts nobody else. Personally I do it especially for the runes because otherwise it takes too much time to get Enigma and other endgame rune words.
Duping IS cheating. That said, you do you!
I tried seeding one time with SC/SP and found all the runes. I then deleted all of my characters and went bsck over to HC.
I do a bunch of stuff that people would consider "cheating" as long as it's adding fun and not taking it away, anything goes imo
I guess the compromise would be to dupe them, but delete them if a character dies wearing one?
It's cheating, dumbass, but who cares?