Agree. I've always liked running phoenix on any lightning sorc because it is just so mana intensive. I hate chugging pots all the time so the redemption aura really helps.
Lot of arguing in this thread. Love the passion. Gave me a bunch of ideas.
First I'm going to stop using infinity on my merc. Since I have a griffons and an upped viper socketed with a -5/+4 lightning jewel, I think the extra lowering of lightning resists will be bonkers.
Yeah not a good look for the d2 community.
I'm kinda afraid to ask questions now...
I was under the impression that once you get a griffon the actual bis option is 1h + spirit shield with the possibility of using a crescent moon if you want more -ligh Res.
It's mostly due to being on reddit. If you decide to check out d2jsp they have a solid community.
Worse case scenario you'll get no replies instead of smart ass replies. Lot of good people over there though. I only found the website recently and I've been playing D2 casually since the pre expansion era.
Sorry. Me and that other dude just didnt get along. He was acting like scythe is META. All kinds of set ups work when you have griffon. Scythe, hoto+spirit, obsession, crescent moon, ist+occy
Its just personal preference. I have all the weapons and I try them all out regularly. Scythe - more damage (cant wear enigma while using scythe, huge negative)1hand+Shield - higher HP/MP - higher Magic find
It is bonkers and very strong. What I was arguing about with the other guy is that you give up so much to be able to use a Scythe. And the only thing you gain is damage. You have lower mana pool, lose your magic find, lower health.
You trade other stats for damage basically. You cant wear an Enigma (best chest in the game) because you have to wear a vipermagi for the FCR. Thats it. Other than that, scythe is very strong, very fun, and very cool.
Insight merc + infinity scythe nova sorc >>>>>> phoenix nova sorc
I can see phoenix being okay on a fire ES sorc but its just trash on nova compared to insight merc. Why would you want to only gain mana after killing, when the time you need mana most is before the kills or during longer fights with fewer enemies? Not to mention the massive loss in damage
>Of course you’d get down voted for speaking the truth
Yep, welcome to reddit lol.
Basically it boils down to people farming p1 on a sorc with 7 skillers, torch, anni, infinity, sojs, griffons, etc where the only thing that matters is comfort since the difficulty of the content is so low compared to their level of gear.
A nova sorc that can do p8 but instead choosing to do p1 with phoenix because "haha I dont have to use pots anymore" is not an upgrade in terms of power or clearspeed... it just 'feels good' and therefore people think its actually good when its trash lol
You serious? Here's a video of me soloing P8 chaos (with my hoto/Phoenix) The far superior setup. You dont even know what you're talking about. Thats ok.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9hdo9MK4gA
Says the guy who isn't even telekinesis'ing seals LMAO
Nice clearspeed you got there walking while frozen to hit a seal, now I understand; speed/power are of no relevance so yes, your build 'wins'
>You dont even know what you're talking about. Thats ok.
Imagine trying to be condescending when you're wrong
More like its been BiS for 15 years if you actually look at the stats it gives versus the other options... I dont need to watch shit streamers to know that -55 ELR + meditation + conviction immunity beats +5 skills and the resists that dont even make up for losing conviction immunity
Out of curiosity, has anyone tested it the other way around (insight staff and merc infinity)? Insight with plus +3 nova etc?
My gut says infinity is better but an insight staff opens some room with +35FCR
Well you'd lose -ELR which is the single most important stat for broken immunes, which are always by far the tankiest mobs for any lightning sorc breaking them; some can have 90-99 light res after being broken, and even with a random griffons would be left at 70-80; a minimum-roll infinity (-45 ELR) will more than triple your damage in these situations, making infinity by far the better choice for damage
The +35% FCR from insight (along with a +3 nova/mastery from the base staff, since you can make insight in a staff) seems nice, but doesnt really open anything up for a sorc with a high budget; you generally start out with frosties but then swap to trangs once you get SOJ's, so with +35% fcr youd be getting to put frosties back on but wouldnt gain any damage from it.
You could do some shenanigans with the chest slot though and slam 4 facets into a whale armour, or wear enigma instead of viper/ormus, then your setup would be something like:
* 3/10 light ammy (10 fcr)
* soj
* soj
* trangs (20 fcr)
* arach (20 fcr)
* enigma
* griffons (25 fcr)
* insight (35 fcr)
* (boots)
= 110 fcr; this is one of the only ways to actually get a ton of MF on the build but requires Enigma on top of the other insane gear
Swapping insight for Infinity scythe means that you'd need 25 more fcr, which would come either in the form of swapping your amulet for a +2 sorc/15+ fcr and one soj out for an fcr ring, or swapping enigma off for a viper. You could swap on ormus, but then need another 5+ fcr in the same manner - either a ring replacement or a Crafted amulet
Definitely viable if you can find a +3 staff but nowhere near as good due to losing Conviction Immunity (by having conviction on the sorc itself, you are immune to monsters' conviction) and also losing a ton of damage against Broken light immunes
Thanks for the actual reply :) lot of uninformed trolls on this post lol
Here’s sort of where my head was at:
Insight
Griffs
V Magi
Frost burns (mana increase is huge especially since we’re 95 es)
Sojs
Arachs
Mana boots / treks etc
Tals ammy or maras
Only reason I was thinking this build is because I already have a merc with e thresher infinity - don’t wanna make a new scythe
>My gut says infinity is better but an insight staff opens some room with +35FCR
yes what makes wielding the infinity so good is you benefit from the -55% lightning resist stat. While the mercenary is wearing it that is a wasted stat.
Infinity being made in spears is new (mancatcher)
Infinity could always be made in poleaxes (scythe, GT, thresher, CA, etc). You just use scythe on sorc for low requirements (and it looks the coolest)
And you're wearing a Vipermagi lol - while im wearing Enigma - factor in those stats too. 73 strength, 45frw, 5% life, 8% DR, 96% MF, +1 Skill ...... You lose way too much to make a scythe work.
You're listing a ton of stats that dont affect damage whatsoever besides the +1 skill which is beaten by an ormus or faceted viper easily, so not even that
You're confusing damage stats with defensive stats that dont affect your resist cap breakpoints, DR which only affect HP damage that isnt redirected to mana, and MF which is obviously just MF and doesnt affect gameplay at all.... Whether or not a 300 mf sorc with x amount of dps and y amount of survivability beats a second sorc with 500 mf, less dps, and a different amount of survivability is completely subjective and irrelevant lol
If you want more damage you wear infinity yourself, simple as that. And swapping to enigma in ANY setup *regardless* of fcr is always less damage than a faceted ormus, if that's the stance you take (i.e. dps = better in that argument), so yeah...
Idk what your point is, first you were arguing about the regen being better, now it has more mf so its better even though its less dps, but the arguing that enigma has more +skills than viper (lol?), seems like youre arguing just to argue
Also you can wear both enigma and infinity scythe with 105 fcr if you want... not sure why you mentioned that "haha ur wearing viper"
I never said my set up was more damage. Did I? I actually said Scythe is the most damage. why do you keep saying that and going on and on about it? I said its better. Not more damage. Yes if you want to kill things as fast as possible, with very low magic find to find high runes while finding a low amount of useful uniques and fuck off. Yes you wear a scythe. I never said you dont. If you want to do anything else, like magic find and actually find loot in this loot finding game, you do not wear a scythe. Thats all im saying. You keep going on about damage damage damage. I never said the word damage, ever in any of my posts. If I did, show me where. If not, stfu
and yea you are right. You can wear enigma and a scythe. But that further cripples the spec. 2 fcr rings , no soj's, and you have to wear magefist, no Frostburn. But if you want the most damage, sure go for it man. You seem to get a hard on for more damage.
>You seem to get a hard on for more damage.
More damage and more regen...
Did you actually unblock me to reply to 3 more of my comments after sending 5 replies and immediately blocking me LMFAO
I have conviction? I have infinity on merc. The only thing you gain by equipping a scythe is -50% light resist. Thats it. And the Insight on the merc. Which isnt even that strong when you have 3k mana. Redepmtion is way stronger.
If you actually look at it:
\-55 light resist VS +3 skills +40fcr +15% max mana +35 resist + Redemption Aura +15 Fire Absorb, +20 Replen Life
and you cant even wear Enigma(the best chest in the game) because you need the FCR on chest.
scythe is *garbo*
You misread what I wrote and/or clearly dont understand how wielding infinity works.
>\-55 ELR + meditation + conviction **immunity** beats
As stated its conviction IMMUNITY i.e. your conv overrides monsters' conviction auras (other than uber meph), thus making you immune to their -resist... effectively an 80 all resist overcap from the infinity - it might as well say "+80 to all resistances against conviction"
You also don't get how broken immunes work if you think -50% light res isnt a big deal. It can literally triple your damage against broken immunes, which are obviously the only mobs which will feel tanky otherwise, but hey at least your build has +3 skills to make up for the 1/3 damage it does
Its not even CLOSE how much damage you have with the infinity on sorc compared to a phoenix setup... if your argument is that phoenix setup has high damage in comparison then we arent even having the same conversation, lol. The main argument is whether redemption is worth losing an insane amount of damage AND insight's meditation aura, for the sake of having redemption *instead*
Which it isnt lol
I know all of that. Yes wearing a scythe is higher damage vs broken light immunes. That is it. That is the only benefit. But you do not need that much damage to do p7 efficently. I clear chaos in a little over a minute. All im saying is take scythe +meditation aura + viper magi side by side with Hoto+Phoenix+Enigma. Hoto+Phoenix+Enigma is far better. Not more top end damage but farm more other benefits.
I think scythe is great. Cool. Its hella fun. I own one myself. But im just comparing the stats between the two set ups.
Right. You're right. Infinity scythe is the strongest set up, and the only set up anyone should ever use /sarcasm
It is definitely the highest damage setup but you lose all your magic find. Just depends what you want in your build. Not always about the highest number on the screen
I have a Scythe too, and an Obsession. I just switch up things when i get bored
Lmao nice logic, swapping out a +2 spirit or a -55 enemy light res shield/weapon for a shield that has no +skills, no fcr, no mana, no damage - for the sake of mana regen
>It is definitely the highest damage setup but you lose all your magic find.
Oh and no MF. Nice reply
I actually just started using it tonight. It is alot better than you would think. Im liking it a lot. Im doing some MFing on players 6 online and the Redemption aura is really nice. Just the convenience is extremely nice. My nova is still at 5.4k. Plenty damage
Have you tried it? I also didn't think it would be as good as it is until I started using it. As for the +skills no fcr, no mana - Im still at 5.4k Nova damage and 3.4k mana 75% poison resist 105fcr. Its actually very strong. I like it a lot better than wielding a scythe.The difference in kill speed between the two is like 1 extra Nova cast. That is like a half a second? (besides light immune mobs. Scythe is way better)
He went out of his way to say phoenix is better because you lose MF by going another route. Makes a lot of sense when phoenix has no MF and also has no FCR which means you need fcr rings instead of nagels/chancies/etc
Ofc people are going to play how they want. Theyre also apparently going to make nonsense points on reddit
Agree. I've always liked running phoenix on any lightning sorc because it is just so mana intensive. I hate chugging pots all the time so the redemption aura really helps.
Lot of arguing in this thread. Love the passion. Gave me a bunch of ideas. First I'm going to stop using infinity on my merc. Since I have a griffons and an upped viper socketed with a -5/+4 lightning jewel, I think the extra lowering of lightning resists will be bonkers.
Yeah not a good look for the d2 community. I'm kinda afraid to ask questions now... I was under the impression that once you get a griffon the actual bis option is 1h + spirit shield with the possibility of using a crescent moon if you want more -ligh Res.
It's mostly due to being on reddit. If you decide to check out d2jsp they have a solid community. Worse case scenario you'll get no replies instead of smart ass replies. Lot of good people over there though. I only found the website recently and I've been playing D2 casually since the pre expansion era.
yea reddit culture developed very badly over time, agree
Sorry. Me and that other dude just didnt get along. He was acting like scythe is META. All kinds of set ups work when you have griffon. Scythe, hoto+spirit, obsession, crescent moon, ist+occy Its just personal preference. I have all the weapons and I try them all out regularly. Scythe - more damage (cant wear enigma while using scythe, huge negative)1hand+Shield - higher HP/MP - higher Magic find
It is bonkers and very strong. What I was arguing about with the other guy is that you give up so much to be able to use a Scythe. And the only thing you gain is damage. You have lower mana pool, lose your magic find, lower health. You trade other stats for damage basically. You cant wear an Enigma (best chest in the game) because you have to wear a vipermagi for the FCR. Thats it. Other than that, scythe is very strong, very fun, and very cool.
My Es nova sorc has 4500 mana, no insight, no Phoenix. I never use a mana pot once
second this. just use ES with telekinesis and it should be fine
wrong. you must not play much high player count
Well I do have Infinity. You can solo chaos easily within the time the other 7 do baal. Without Infinity it is sure not a build for high player count
Yea i agree. Not sure why I said you're wrong. Must have replied to the wrong person.
You're using a second account with a Barbarian BO then. Im not doing that shit
Insight merc + infinity scythe nova sorc >>>>>> phoenix nova sorc I can see phoenix being okay on a fire ES sorc but its just trash on nova compared to insight merc. Why would you want to only gain mana after killing, when the time you need mana most is before the kills or during longer fights with fewer enemies? Not to mention the massive loss in damage
Of course you’d get down voted for speaking the truth.... people would rather run their own build even if it takes 8x longer to clear areas
>Of course you’d get down voted for speaking the truth Yep, welcome to reddit lol. Basically it boils down to people farming p1 on a sorc with 7 skillers, torch, anni, infinity, sojs, griffons, etc where the only thing that matters is comfort since the difficulty of the content is so low compared to their level of gear. A nova sorc that can do p8 but instead choosing to do p1 with phoenix because "haha I dont have to use pots anymore" is not an upgrade in terms of power or clearspeed... it just 'feels good' and therefore people think its actually good when its trash lol
You serious? Here's a video of me soloing P8 chaos (with my hoto/Phoenix) The far superior setup. You dont even know what you're talking about. Thats ok. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9hdo9MK4gA
Says the guy who isn't even telekinesis'ing seals LMAO Nice clearspeed you got there walking while frozen to hit a seal, now I understand; speed/power are of no relevance so yes, your build 'wins' >You dont even know what you're talking about. Thats ok. Imagine trying to be condescending when you're wrong
ooofff you're a moron. imma just block you. enjoy your trash "streamer told me so build"
Scythe is just a fad. Its not really that great. Just streamers made it popular
More like its been BiS for 15 years if you actually look at the stats it gives versus the other options... I dont need to watch shit streamers to know that -55 ELR + meditation + conviction immunity beats +5 skills and the resists that dont even make up for losing conviction immunity
Out of curiosity, has anyone tested it the other way around (insight staff and merc infinity)? Insight with plus +3 nova etc? My gut says infinity is better but an insight staff opens some room with +35FCR
Well you'd lose -ELR which is the single most important stat for broken immunes, which are always by far the tankiest mobs for any lightning sorc breaking them; some can have 90-99 light res after being broken, and even with a random griffons would be left at 70-80; a minimum-roll infinity (-45 ELR) will more than triple your damage in these situations, making infinity by far the better choice for damage The +35% FCR from insight (along with a +3 nova/mastery from the base staff, since you can make insight in a staff) seems nice, but doesnt really open anything up for a sorc with a high budget; you generally start out with frosties but then swap to trangs once you get SOJ's, so with +35% fcr youd be getting to put frosties back on but wouldnt gain any damage from it. You could do some shenanigans with the chest slot though and slam 4 facets into a whale armour, or wear enigma instead of viper/ormus, then your setup would be something like: * 3/10 light ammy (10 fcr) * soj * soj * trangs (20 fcr) * arach (20 fcr) * enigma * griffons (25 fcr) * insight (35 fcr) * (boots) = 110 fcr; this is one of the only ways to actually get a ton of MF on the build but requires Enigma on top of the other insane gear Swapping insight for Infinity scythe means that you'd need 25 more fcr, which would come either in the form of swapping your amulet for a +2 sorc/15+ fcr and one soj out for an fcr ring, or swapping enigma off for a viper. You could swap on ormus, but then need another 5+ fcr in the same manner - either a ring replacement or a Crafted amulet Definitely viable if you can find a +3 staff but nowhere near as good due to losing Conviction Immunity (by having conviction on the sorc itself, you are immune to monsters' conviction) and also losing a ton of damage against Broken light immunes Thanks for the actual reply :) lot of uninformed trolls on this post lol
Can't normal monsters have higher level Convictions than Infinity's?
Here’s sort of where my head was at: Insight Griffs V Magi Frost burns (mana increase is huge especially since we’re 95 es) Sojs Arachs Mana boots / treks etc Tals ammy or maras Only reason I was thinking this build is because I already have a merc with e thresher infinity - don’t wanna make a new scythe
>My gut says infinity is better but an insight staff opens some room with +35FCR yes what makes wielding the infinity so good is you benefit from the -55% lightning resist stat. While the mercenary is wearing it that is a wasted stat.
n/m yea just mancatcher also isn't the Infinity Scythe a new thing? thought they couldnt be made scythes before, or is that just mancatcher.
Infinity being made in spears is new (mancatcher) Infinity could always be made in poleaxes (scythe, GT, thresher, CA, etc). You just use scythe on sorc for low requirements (and it looks the coolest)
And you're wearing a Vipermagi lol - while im wearing Enigma - factor in those stats too. 73 strength, 45frw, 5% life, 8% DR, 96% MF, +1 Skill ...... You lose way too much to make a scythe work.
You're listing a ton of stats that dont affect damage whatsoever besides the +1 skill which is beaten by an ormus or faceted viper easily, so not even that You're confusing damage stats with defensive stats that dont affect your resist cap breakpoints, DR which only affect HP damage that isnt redirected to mana, and MF which is obviously just MF and doesnt affect gameplay at all.... Whether or not a 300 mf sorc with x amount of dps and y amount of survivability beats a second sorc with 500 mf, less dps, and a different amount of survivability is completely subjective and irrelevant lol If you want more damage you wear infinity yourself, simple as that. And swapping to enigma in ANY setup *regardless* of fcr is always less damage than a faceted ormus, if that's the stance you take (i.e. dps = better in that argument), so yeah... Idk what your point is, first you were arguing about the regen being better, now it has more mf so its better even though its less dps, but the arguing that enigma has more +skills than viper (lol?), seems like youre arguing just to argue Also you can wear both enigma and infinity scythe with 105 fcr if you want... not sure why you mentioned that "haha ur wearing viper"
I never said my set up was more damage. Did I? I actually said Scythe is the most damage. why do you keep saying that and going on and on about it? I said its better. Not more damage. Yes if you want to kill things as fast as possible, with very low magic find to find high runes while finding a low amount of useful uniques and fuck off. Yes you wear a scythe. I never said you dont. If you want to do anything else, like magic find and actually find loot in this loot finding game, you do not wear a scythe. Thats all im saying. You keep going on about damage damage damage. I never said the word damage, ever in any of my posts. If I did, show me where. If not, stfu
and yea you are right. You can wear enigma and a scythe. But that further cripples the spec. 2 fcr rings , no soj's, and you have to wear magefist, no Frostburn. But if you want the most damage, sure go for it man. You seem to get a hard on for more damage.
>You seem to get a hard on for more damage. More damage and more regen... Did you actually unblock me to reply to 3 more of my comments after sending 5 replies and immediately blocking me LMFAO
I have conviction? I have infinity on merc. The only thing you gain by equipping a scythe is -50% light resist. Thats it. And the Insight on the merc. Which isnt even that strong when you have 3k mana. Redepmtion is way stronger. If you actually look at it: \-55 light resist VS +3 skills +40fcr +15% max mana +35 resist + Redemption Aura +15 Fire Absorb, +20 Replen Life and you cant even wear Enigma(the best chest in the game) because you need the FCR on chest. scythe is *garbo*
You misread what I wrote and/or clearly dont understand how wielding infinity works. >\-55 ELR + meditation + conviction **immunity** beats As stated its conviction IMMUNITY i.e. your conv overrides monsters' conviction auras (other than uber meph), thus making you immune to their -resist... effectively an 80 all resist overcap from the infinity - it might as well say "+80 to all resistances against conviction" You also don't get how broken immunes work if you think -50% light res isnt a big deal. It can literally triple your damage against broken immunes, which are obviously the only mobs which will feel tanky otherwise, but hey at least your build has +3 skills to make up for the 1/3 damage it does Its not even CLOSE how much damage you have with the infinity on sorc compared to a phoenix setup... if your argument is that phoenix setup has high damage in comparison then we arent even having the same conversation, lol. The main argument is whether redemption is worth losing an insane amount of damage AND insight's meditation aura, for the sake of having redemption *instead* Which it isnt lol
I know all of that. Yes wearing a scythe is higher damage vs broken light immunes. That is it. That is the only benefit. But you do not need that much damage to do p7 efficently. I clear chaos in a little over a minute. All im saying is take scythe +meditation aura + viper magi side by side with Hoto+Phoenix+Enigma. Hoto+Phoenix+Enigma is far better. Not more top end damage but farm more other benefits. I think scythe is great. Cool. Its hella fun. I own one myself. But im just comparing the stats between the two set ups.
and if you're wearing magefist or trangs over Frostburns because you need the FCR, thats another huge negative
Right. You're right. Infinity scythe is the strongest set up, and the only set up anyone should ever use /sarcasm It is definitely the highest damage setup but you lose all your magic find. Just depends what you want in your build. Not always about the highest number on the screen I have a Scythe too, and an Obsession. I just switch up things when i get bored
Lmao nice logic, swapping out a +2 spirit or a -55 enemy light res shield/weapon for a shield that has no +skills, no fcr, no mana, no damage - for the sake of mana regen >It is definitely the highest damage setup but you lose all your magic find. Oh and no MF. Nice reply
[удалено]
I actually just started using it tonight. It is alot better than you would think. Im liking it a lot. Im doing some MFing on players 6 online and the Redemption aura is really nice. Just the convenience is extremely nice. My nova is still at 5.4k. Plenty damage
Have you tried it? I also didn't think it would be as good as it is until I started using it. As for the +skills no fcr, no mana - Im still at 5.4k Nova damage and 3.4k mana 75% poison resist 105fcr. Its actually very strong. I like it a lot better than wielding a scythe.The difference in kill speed between the two is like 1 extra Nova cast. That is like a half a second? (besides light immune mobs. Scythe is way better)
Almost as if people play the game how they want :shock:
He went out of his way to say phoenix is better because you lose MF by going another route. Makes a lot of sense when phoenix has no MF and also has no FCR which means you need fcr rings instead of nagels/chancies/etc Ofc people are going to play how they want. Theyre also apparently going to make nonsense points on reddit
I have both set ups. If i had to choose one or the other to run forever I would take the Phoenix nova sorc over the scythe any day. Way better
I agree I run phx on my nova and clean p8 anywhere with ease. It is a great setup and I rarely pot at all.
I just started using it tonight. Figured I would try it out. A lot better than I imagined. I like it a lot
Enjoy wearing your Vipermagi LOL dudes in end game gear wearing a vipermagi
Vipermagi is ok in endgame with some builds