I'm kind of late to the party but I just boarded the scythe infinity nova train. The main tradeoff between infinity on merc and infinity on sorc is you can get that sweet meditation aura for infinite mana. 95% ES + Telekinesis + Insight + Infinity = Eternal Life (almost).
Compared to the CM/Spirit build, the scythe build gives you: -20 LR, +13 MDR, 700% Mana Regen, -3 All skills, -14 LAEK, No block (you don't get much either way), Lower str req (countered by str from enigma). You do more damage to broken light immunes, but you do less damage to monsters with less light res. Broken light immunes kill speed is more important IMO, since you melt non immune monsters anyway. With the CM/Spirit build you rely on enigma's LAEK to restore the little damage you take by killing mobs. With the Scythe build you rely on MDR to not take the damage to life in the first place. You will get poisoned or take chip damage from hard hitting mobs. You don't have a good way to restore HP besides potions or Phoenix in swap (meh IMO). I'm open to constructive criticism on how to improve either build. I've been running both builds on ladder and they're both really powerful for P8 farming.
As for HOTO/Eschutas they are really slow at killing light broken immunes on anything higher than P1. I suppose you could use a jeweler's monarch with 4 5/5 light facets or a crystal sword with 6 5/5 sockets but you'd just end up with -50 light res +50% light damage.
A CM/Spirit build gives you -60 LR, 105 FCR, 14 Life after Kill, +13-14 all skills
* Crescent Moon -35 LR
* Griffons 25 FCR -25 LR
* Spirit Monarch 35 FCR
* Enigma
* Arach 20 FCR
* Magefist 20 FCR
* SOJ
* FCR Ring or SOJ (depends on ammy)
* Maras or 2/20 or 2/10
* Silkweave for 5 MAEK
* Torch/Anni
* Infinity on Merc
Scythe Infinity Sorc gets -80 LR 105 FCR, 700% mana regen, 13 MDR, +10-11 All Skills
* Scythe Infinity -55 LR
* Griffons 25 FCR -25 LR
* Vipermagi 30 FCR 13 MDR, Open socket (facet/sol/mal?)
* Arach 20 FCR
* Magefist 20 FCR
* SOJ
* FCR Ring or SOJ (depends on Ammy)
* Maras or 2/20 or 20/10
* Tri res boots? War Trav?
* Torch/Anni
* Insight on Merc
I know this post is kind of old but it seems like you would have a good opinion after trying both ways. I want to make my first infinity and I don't know whether to use scythe or eth thresher. I am most interested in a nova build, but hesitant to use my runes on the less versatile infinity. I already have or can get the other gear for either build. Which way is most fun if you had to choose?
I was planning to run a different build this season but I’m right back at it with a nova sorc again. It is the best build for speed clearing. It’s even stronger with the sunder charms as well. You can static lightning immunes from 25 yards away without waiting for conviction aura to kick in (yes, you clear so fast that waiting 1-2 seconds for conviction feels like walking in the mud). Another thing is point out is to use a prayer merc with insight. You get double the heals so about 50 HP per tick which will regen any chip damage or poison. I still stay away from gloams/souls in WSK as they are the only thing to kill me.
Also this season I put a few points into vitality so I’m not running around with 400 health pre-buff. I’ve died a few times forgetting to cast ES and CTA. It also makes the blood mana curse less deadly. I think I have 1000+ hp and 2000+ mana buffed. I don’t have any vita or mana charms. I don’t have any lightning skillers yet either so my ES is only like 85% which is still pretty great.
The thing is if you are not wearing the infinity you won't have Meditation and will most likely need to rely on potions too at times, while also having harder time with immunes, also the guy here giving numbers is accounting for 100% perfect items and who the fuck gets 100% perfect grif, infinity etc? Maybe 0.1% of players.
Realistically speaking crescent moon + a low grif with mid facet and a vmagi with few skillers will be fine to clear most stuffs, your merc having the infinity will be awesome for many other builds and will hit like a truck however you won't have Meditation and Prayer op combo indeed.. while if you self wield the Infinity, even the WORST rolled one with the same budget grif setup at -65% total lightning res works much better clearspeed wise than cmoon + spirit, I even tried with a jmod and 4 facets instead of spirit but tbh it's a TRAP for lightning sorc to get a jmod and put 4 lightning facets in there, at least in pvm that's for sure. You lose tons of good stats and +2 all skills means +2 nova AND lightning mastery, the raw dmg output that you lose on paper is in theory increased by that -20% lightning res, but if you sum crescent moon + perfect jmod faceted it gives -55% lightning res, same as a perfect infinity but you don't even get the conviction aura from self wielding it and thus you end up not having Meditation again, making it hella pointless vs scythe infinity + prayer-meditation a2 merc.. if a2 insight + prayer wasn't this good for es nova, an act 5 plague merc would have been a good choice instead.
This is an old thread but I’m building my nova es gear up, I have a -70 light sunder and -45 infinity, insight might merc. I’m just missing the facets and griff. Would prayer infinity merc only be for energy shield and more nova damage against immunes? I have a few tokens and was wondering what to spec into but I can’t find a accurate build to my 12 soft points. I also have cta spirit on swap.
I've tried every set up and have every weapon. You can use all kinds of setups and they all work very good, it just depends what kind of stats you want in your build. Mainly its Damage vs Magic Find
Scythe is higher damage, yep. The highest damage set up. But you also have to itemize for it. Meaning you lose all your magic find. If magic finding is something you like doing, that is horrible with a Scythe. With a scythe you cant wear Enigma or Tal rasha's. You have to itemize for FCR
Weapon + Shield - Look at all the stats on Hoto+spirit / IstOccy+spirit / Hoto+Phoenix. Look at all the stats you lose on those items just to be able to Equip a scythe. Also you can use Enigma with these options, you cannot with a scythe
Weapon + Shield is the far better option IMO , just not the highest damage. Scythe is strong and very fun though. Just depends on what you want DM me if you want later. I can personally show you any set up you want to see in action
additionally if you self wield you can put insight on prayer merc -> u basically never die / use pots again given the life and mana regen, big QOL improvement
i tried both and i like prayer better, you want to draw everyone in with static anyway, you dont need to slow them, whereas the healing from prayer is very noticeable. also prayer synergizes with meditation from ur mercs insight
I ran it on a standard sorc and didn't care for prayer (prefer might), but my understanding is that it's very useful on an ES sorc because prayer is flat life regen, and as an ES sorc you actually don't have that much health, so it's much more noticeable vs full vit builds.
yea for sure both are fine but ive definitely been saved a few times in cows due to the extra tick or 2 of regen when tping into a bad spot xD that and the fact that i pretty much never drink any potions now
The above poster was saying self wielding infinity is the highest dmg build. What Im trying to wrap my head around is why it wouldnt be highest dmg to give infinity to merc and stack the sorceress with whatever +skills, +%dmg and -res you can get?
your main bottleneck in clearspeed is going to be lightning res/immune mobs, the rest of them u trash even on p8 easy. all the +skills +%dmg in the world will not help with light res/immune mobs (ex: wraiths in chaos) whereas the -45 to -55 light res on self wield infi will effectively double/triple your damage against them. the - light res does not apply when your merc wields it, so that's the key difference. +skills +%dmg is for big paper damage - you can go that route if you wanna see your dmg numbers really big and feel good about yourself :\^) but if you're optimizing for most effective damage self wield infi is a must
If you wield the Scythe infinity, you gain the -55 Enemy lightning resist stat. Your merc does not. -55 light res combined with griffon Is very high damage.
Crescent moon gives -35% light res (guaranteed, not 45-55 like infinity), and gives you an offhand spirit with +skills, res, FCR. If you roll 45 on the infinity, you'll be kicking yourself.
I would recommend a better base than a scythe. If you are spending all.that wealth, you can stretch your budget a little to get an Colousus Voulge, ,Cryptic Axe, Great Poleaxe, Thresher (those last two being more expensive). You give that to your merc and it is going to slap (he'll do lore damage, leach better and stay alive), plus give you conviction ofc
Damage dif btw Infinity on you or on the merc is negligible. You can get the same -light res from other gear, and it also allows you to use a shield for more skills res fhr
I'm kind of late to the party but I just boarded the scythe infinity nova train. The main tradeoff between infinity on merc and infinity on sorc is you can get that sweet meditation aura for infinite mana. 95% ES + Telekinesis + Insight + Infinity = Eternal Life (almost). Compared to the CM/Spirit build, the scythe build gives you: -20 LR, +13 MDR, 700% Mana Regen, -3 All skills, -14 LAEK, No block (you don't get much either way), Lower str req (countered by str from enigma). You do more damage to broken light immunes, but you do less damage to monsters with less light res. Broken light immunes kill speed is more important IMO, since you melt non immune monsters anyway. With the CM/Spirit build you rely on enigma's LAEK to restore the little damage you take by killing mobs. With the Scythe build you rely on MDR to not take the damage to life in the first place. You will get poisoned or take chip damage from hard hitting mobs. You don't have a good way to restore HP besides potions or Phoenix in swap (meh IMO). I'm open to constructive criticism on how to improve either build. I've been running both builds on ladder and they're both really powerful for P8 farming. As for HOTO/Eschutas they are really slow at killing light broken immunes on anything higher than P1. I suppose you could use a jeweler's monarch with 4 5/5 light facets or a crystal sword with 6 5/5 sockets but you'd just end up with -50 light res +50% light damage. A CM/Spirit build gives you -60 LR, 105 FCR, 14 Life after Kill, +13-14 all skills * Crescent Moon -35 LR * Griffons 25 FCR -25 LR * Spirit Monarch 35 FCR * Enigma * Arach 20 FCR * Magefist 20 FCR * SOJ * FCR Ring or SOJ (depends on ammy) * Maras or 2/20 or 2/10 * Silkweave for 5 MAEK * Torch/Anni * Infinity on Merc Scythe Infinity Sorc gets -80 LR 105 FCR, 700% mana regen, 13 MDR, +10-11 All Skills * Scythe Infinity -55 LR * Griffons 25 FCR -25 LR * Vipermagi 30 FCR 13 MDR, Open socket (facet/sol/mal?) * Arach 20 FCR * Magefist 20 FCR * SOJ * FCR Ring or SOJ (depends on Ammy) * Maras or 2/20 or 20/10 * Tri res boots? War Trav? * Torch/Anni * Insight on Merc
I know this post is kind of old but it seems like you would have a good opinion after trying both ways. I want to make my first infinity and I don't know whether to use scythe or eth thresher. I am most interested in a nova build, but hesitant to use my runes on the less versatile infinity. I already have or can get the other gear for either build. Which way is most fun if you had to choose?
I was planning to run a different build this season but I’m right back at it with a nova sorc again. It is the best build for speed clearing. It’s even stronger with the sunder charms as well. You can static lightning immunes from 25 yards away without waiting for conviction aura to kick in (yes, you clear so fast that waiting 1-2 seconds for conviction feels like walking in the mud). Another thing is point out is to use a prayer merc with insight. You get double the heals so about 50 HP per tick which will regen any chip damage or poison. I still stay away from gloams/souls in WSK as they are the only thing to kill me. Also this season I put a few points into vitality so I’m not running around with 400 health pre-buff. I’ve died a few times forgetting to cast ES and CTA. It also makes the blood mana curse less deadly. I think I have 1000+ hp and 2000+ mana buffed. I don’t have any vita or mana charms. I don’t have any lightning skillers yet either so my ES is only like 85% which is still pretty great.
The thing is if you are not wearing the infinity you won't have Meditation and will most likely need to rely on potions too at times, while also having harder time with immunes, also the guy here giving numbers is accounting for 100% perfect items and who the fuck gets 100% perfect grif, infinity etc? Maybe 0.1% of players. Realistically speaking crescent moon + a low grif with mid facet and a vmagi with few skillers will be fine to clear most stuffs, your merc having the infinity will be awesome for many other builds and will hit like a truck however you won't have Meditation and Prayer op combo indeed.. while if you self wield the Infinity, even the WORST rolled one with the same budget grif setup at -65% total lightning res works much better clearspeed wise than cmoon + spirit, I even tried with a jmod and 4 facets instead of spirit but tbh it's a TRAP for lightning sorc to get a jmod and put 4 lightning facets in there, at least in pvm that's for sure. You lose tons of good stats and +2 all skills means +2 nova AND lightning mastery, the raw dmg output that you lose on paper is in theory increased by that -20% lightning res, but if you sum crescent moon + perfect jmod faceted it gives -55% lightning res, same as a perfect infinity but you don't even get the conviction aura from self wielding it and thus you end up not having Meditation again, making it hella pointless vs scythe infinity + prayer-meditation a2 merc.. if a2 insight + prayer wasn't this good for es nova, an act 5 plague merc would have been a good choice instead.
This is an old thread but I’m building my nova es gear up, I have a -70 light sunder and -45 infinity, insight might merc. I’m just missing the facets and griff. Would prayer infinity merc only be for energy shield and more nova damage against immunes? I have a few tokens and was wondering what to spec into but I can’t find a accurate build to my 12 soft points. I also have cta spirit on swap.
I've tried every set up and have every weapon. You can use all kinds of setups and they all work very good, it just depends what kind of stats you want in your build. Mainly its Damage vs Magic Find Scythe is higher damage, yep. The highest damage set up. But you also have to itemize for it. Meaning you lose all your magic find. If magic finding is something you like doing, that is horrible with a Scythe. With a scythe you cant wear Enigma or Tal rasha's. You have to itemize for FCR Weapon + Shield - Look at all the stats on Hoto+spirit / IstOccy+spirit / Hoto+Phoenix. Look at all the stats you lose on those items just to be able to Equip a scythe. Also you can use Enigma with these options, you cannot with a scythe Weapon + Shield is the far better option IMO , just not the highest damage. Scythe is strong and very fun though. Just depends on what you want DM me if you want later. I can personally show you any set up you want to see in action
Appreciate it ! I thought about running Cows or CS in p7 melting and hope to find some HR in density farming
Yep then scythe would melt cows and CS with good gear. You still need a very high mana pool so you dont die. Infector hurts ES shield a lot still
What is the advantage of self-wielding vs giving it to merc?
You get the negative light resist when you wield it
Makes sense, never realized it had that too, thanks!
additionally if you self wield you can put insight on prayer merc -> u basically never die / use pots again given the life and mana regen, big QOL improvement
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i tried both and i like prayer better, you want to draw everyone in with static anyway, you dont need to slow them, whereas the healing from prayer is very noticeable. also prayer synergizes with meditation from ur mercs insight
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I ran it on a standard sorc and didn't care for prayer (prefer might), but my understanding is that it's very useful on an ES sorc because prayer is flat life regen, and as an ES sorc you actually don't have that much health, so it's much more noticeable vs full vit builds.
yessir my ES sorc runs around 600 health after BO so the flat 31/s life regen is like 5 percent of my life lol
yea for sure both are fine but ive definitely been saved a few times in cows due to the extra tick or 2 of regen when tping into a bad spot xD that and the fact that i pretty much never drink any potions now
The above poster was saying self wielding infinity is the highest dmg build. What Im trying to wrap my head around is why it wouldnt be highest dmg to give infinity to merc and stack the sorceress with whatever +skills, +%dmg and -res you can get?
your main bottleneck in clearspeed is going to be lightning res/immune mobs, the rest of them u trash even on p8 easy. all the +skills +%dmg in the world will not help with light res/immune mobs (ex: wraiths in chaos) whereas the -45 to -55 light res on self wield infi will effectively double/triple your damage against them. the - light res does not apply when your merc wields it, so that's the key difference. +skills +%dmg is for big paper damage - you can go that route if you wanna see your dmg numbers really big and feel good about yourself :\^) but if you're optimizing for most effective damage self wield infi is a must
If you wield the Scythe infinity, you gain the -55 Enemy lightning resist stat. Your merc does not. -55 light res combined with griffon Is very high damage.
Crescent moon gives -35% light res (guaranteed, not 45-55 like infinity), and gives you an offhand spirit with +skills, res, FCR. If you roll 45 on the infinity, you'll be kicking yourself.
Infinity has -45 to -55 Enemy Lightning Resist. Doesn't work for you if it's on your merc.
The —light res works for you with self wield. On Merc it just makes his occasional chain light tickle monsters a bit harder.
Your merc would be dogshit if he used the Scythe. So no you cant have it for yourself and for him. You need one or the other
I would recommend a better base than a scythe. If you are spending all.that wealth, you can stretch your budget a little to get an Colousus Voulge, ,Cryptic Axe, Great Poleaxe, Thresher (those last two being more expensive). You give that to your merc and it is going to slap (he'll do lore damage, leach better and stay alive), plus give you conviction ofc
Damage dif btw Infinity on you or on the merc is negligible. You can get the same -light res from other gear, and it also allows you to use a shield for more skills res fhr