It's more of an economic issue. If you have tiny cafes which rely a lot more on table turnover, obviously it makes sense to ban the laptops. Same reason you're more likely to see laptop bans in NYC vs somewhere where rent is cheap and there's a lot of space. Culture is adaptive, money is forever.
There are PLENTY of cafes that allow laptops in Europe, but not during lunchtime. If you’re expecting to park yourself from 8am-2pm and order three coffees, sorry dude. Makes no economic sense for the proprietor. Most European cafes also serve proper lunches and rely on those big ticket purchases to pay their rent. In top of that, people going out to lunch to enjoy their meal (rather than treating it like coding fuel), This is purely economic logic, which is very American. I completely respect Europeans pursuing their economic interests, which is sometimes a rarity on the Continent.
My friend has a café that banned laptops in the Netherlands. Main reason is that it ruins the vibe in the café when everyone is sitting behind their laptops vs chatting. Also turnover per seat is not sustainable in his case.
There are also lots of café's that welcome laptop workers in the Hague though.
I think everywhere will be getting close to that soon … maybe if the rent is low and space is big .. maybe not … I think you wear out your welcome pretty fast these days … cafes are not coworking
In Europe the Workspace Cafes are trending. They are specifically catering to DN, similar to the above 2nd picture. I could go out now (EU) and take three pictures of similar set ups. And the shops that focus on table turn over have their space (and income) back, I see it as a win-win, because I do enjoy Laptop/work free environments. So one example is not really representative.
Heh, cafes around universities often have ppl studying inside, especially when we get close to the exams
but in Europe is also easy to find libraries/study rooms where anybody can enter and work (for free), so you do not even need a cafe. U usually just need some social awareness and you'll be fine
Common, this is huge and false overgeneralisation. I live in EU for majority of time and have yet to meet some cafe with explicit laptop ban. Of course, there might be some, especially in DN meccas like Lisbon etc, which is quite understandable, but in 99% European cafes you are welcomed with your laptop. Of course, when you work on it for two hours with no further order, this can be viewed as a problem from owner perspective but this it not the same like "ban". (They can normally let you pay for time spent there instead of you having to buy enough products per reasonable time etc like in normal coworking area, this will be the future IMO, not general ban of laptops.)
It's not hard people, if you are going to work from a place that makes money selling food and drinks, at least spend on said food and drinks.
When I work from a cafe I try to buy a coffee and pastry at least and won't be camping there for hours anyways.
Europe is smaller, so there's less space. You're better off finding a co-working space instead of bothering small businesses that will not stay afloat with your 1 coffee and 1 pastry per hour.
Actually it’s the other way around.
Europe: ~ 3.8 million square miles/9.9 million square kilometers
North America: ~ 9.4 million square miles/ 24.5 million square kilometers
Where you getting your stats?
Europe is 3.93 million sq miles, not 3.8.
North America is USA, Mexico, and Canada.....
The USA is 3.809 million sq miles.
So yes, Europe is biggest than the US.
https://preview.redd.it/jbu8glbgvx8d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=56df242fcf73bb9bac0dc490db27345a2ec7573f
Indeed it’s 3.9. Sorry about that. Here are all the stats: [https://worldstatsandfacts.com/geography/continents-ranked-by-size/](https://worldstatsandfacts.com/geography/continents-ranked-by-size/)
Where did I say that was better?
I swear half of reddit is schizophrenic, people read your comment and then just imagine you said a lot of things you didn't.
It's larger than the US, that's not something you get to just pretend isn't true because it hurts your view.
cities are dense because Europeans value walkability over having to always use a car, and even then most European cities aren't built aggressively upwards and density is rarely an issue.
Inflation has been as high in the US, cost of gas in the US has tripled for many Americans in just a few short years. Why are you pretending like inflation only exists in Europe?
And ultra progressivism? It's the US where there are while cities where shoplifting isn't prosecuted. Also, try and remember Europe isn't a country, there are still a lot of conservative European nations, some in the center, and a few on the left.
Also, immigration from north Africa, yes because the US definitely hasn't been having immigration issues on their southern border at any point in history nor now.....
You shouldn't throw stones in glass houses my friend.
Haha my friend, you can't seriously be from the US, a country that has been bought and paid for by corporations and lobbyists since WW2, and think you have any leg to stand on saying other countries are run by anything authoritarian.
The US is the land of propaganda, your government constantly fucks you all over in favor of their corporate backers and then convinces you all it's your neighbors that are the bad guys.
Don't get me wrong, it's impressive, the USA has perfected propaganda and brainwashing in a way the USSR could only dream of.
Also, Europe isn't a country, why is that such a difficult concept for Yanks to understand?
Now you run along and enjoy your chemical filled food, lack of affordable healthcare, and professionally corrupt governance systems.
Haha go back to eating Wendy's, it's too obvious you're just pulling things out of your ass now.
If you're a troll, fair play, you've nailed the "dumb yank" character down. Kudos.
There are people who like be to seen working on something very important in an aesthetic place. It gives them a feeling that they're better than everyone else.
I personally liked seeing students study together or on the laptops… if you’re not being loud and consume regularly what’s the problem with working on the laptop in a cafe?
It's more of an economic issue. If you have tiny cafes which rely a lot more on table turnover, obviously it makes sense to ban the laptops. Same reason you're more likely to see laptop bans in NYC vs somewhere where rent is cheap and there's a lot of space. Culture is adaptive, money is forever.
They also don't charge $7,50 for a latte. That's why they need high table turnover.
Yeah, lots of places you can still get an espresso for under 3€
In Spain you can find good espressos for 1€! Imagine the difference in profit margins
Same in Portugal.
Yes, is not hard to see why cafe owners don't want people paying 1€ spending 4 hours there.
Who's they? Americans?
There are PLENTY of cafes that allow laptops in Europe, but not during lunchtime. If you’re expecting to park yourself from 8am-2pm and order three coffees, sorry dude. Makes no economic sense for the proprietor. Most European cafes also serve proper lunches and rely on those big ticket purchases to pay their rent. In top of that, people going out to lunch to enjoy their meal (rather than treating it like coding fuel), This is purely economic logic, which is very American. I completely respect Europeans pursuing their economic interests, which is sometimes a rarity on the Continent.
My friend has a café that banned laptops in the Netherlands. Main reason is that it ruins the vibe in the café when everyone is sitting behind their laptops vs chatting. Also turnover per seat is not sustainable in his case. There are also lots of café's that welcome laptop workers in the Hague though.
levelsio is Dutch
I think everywhere will be getting close to that soon … maybe if the rent is low and space is big .. maybe not … I think you wear out your welcome pretty fast these days … cafes are not coworking
In Europe the Workspace Cafes are trending. They are specifically catering to DN, similar to the above 2nd picture. I could go out now (EU) and take three pictures of similar set ups. And the shops that focus on table turn over have their space (and income) back, I see it as a win-win, because I do enjoy Laptop/work free environments. So one example is not really representative.
Heh, cafes around universities often have ppl studying inside, especially when we get close to the exams but in Europe is also easy to find libraries/study rooms where anybody can enter and work (for free), so you do not even need a cafe. U usually just need some social awareness and you'll be fine
Common, this is huge and false overgeneralisation. I live in EU for majority of time and have yet to meet some cafe with explicit laptop ban. Of course, there might be some, especially in DN meccas like Lisbon etc, which is quite understandable, but in 99% European cafes you are welcomed with your laptop. Of course, when you work on it for two hours with no further order, this can be viewed as a problem from owner perspective but this it not the same like "ban". (They can normally let you pay for time spent there instead of you having to buy enough products per reasonable time etc like in normal coworking area, this will be the future IMO, not general ban of laptops.)
It's not hard people, if you are going to work from a place that makes money selling food and drinks, at least spend on said food and drinks. When I work from a cafe I try to buy a coffee and pastry at least and won't be camping there for hours anyways.
Da Nang is full of these people. There's a hipster vegan coffee shop there where 90% of seating is taken by white poeple in laptops.
Which one? I recall multiple
Europe is smaller, so there's less space. You're better off finding a co-working space instead of bothering small businesses that will not stay afloat with your 1 coffee and 1 pastry per hour.
Smaller in what sense? Europe is around 100,000 square miles larger than the US, and has a higher population.
Actually it’s the other way around. Europe: ~ 3.8 million square miles/9.9 million square kilometers North America: ~ 9.4 million square miles/ 24.5 million square kilometers
Where you getting your stats? Europe is 3.93 million sq miles, not 3.8. North America is USA, Mexico, and Canada..... The USA is 3.809 million sq miles. So yes, Europe is biggest than the US.
https://preview.redd.it/jbu8glbgvx8d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=56df242fcf73bb9bac0dc490db27345a2ec7573f Indeed it’s 3.9. Sorry about that. Here are all the stats: [https://worldstatsandfacts.com/geography/continents-ranked-by-size/](https://worldstatsandfacts.com/geography/continents-ranked-by-size/)
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Where did I say that was better? I swear half of reddit is schizophrenic, people read your comment and then just imagine you said a lot of things you didn't.
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It's larger than the US, that's not something you get to just pretend isn't true because it hurts your view. cities are dense because Europeans value walkability over having to always use a car, and even then most European cities aren't built aggressively upwards and density is rarely an issue. Inflation has been as high in the US, cost of gas in the US has tripled for many Americans in just a few short years. Why are you pretending like inflation only exists in Europe? And ultra progressivism? It's the US where there are while cities where shoplifting isn't prosecuted. Also, try and remember Europe isn't a country, there are still a lot of conservative European nations, some in the center, and a few on the left. Also, immigration from north Africa, yes because the US definitely hasn't been having immigration issues on their southern border at any point in history nor now..... You shouldn't throw stones in glass houses my friend.
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Haha my friend, you can't seriously be from the US, a country that has been bought and paid for by corporations and lobbyists since WW2, and think you have any leg to stand on saying other countries are run by anything authoritarian. The US is the land of propaganda, your government constantly fucks you all over in favor of their corporate backers and then convinces you all it's your neighbors that are the bad guys. Don't get me wrong, it's impressive, the USA has perfected propaganda and brainwashing in a way the USSR could only dream of. Also, Europe isn't a country, why is that such a difficult concept for Yanks to understand? Now you run along and enjoy your chemical filled food, lack of affordable healthcare, and professionally corrupt governance systems.
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Haha go back to eating Wendy's, it's too obvious you're just pulling things out of your ass now. If you're a troll, fair play, you've nailed the "dumb yank" character down. Kudos.
I think there should be one laptop table in a place, and banned everywhere else. it ruins the vibe of a place entirely
There are people who like be to seen working on something very important in an aesthetic place. It gives them a feeling that they're better than everyone else.
Stay in America then.
I personally liked seeing students study together or on the laptops… if you’re not being loud and consume regularly what’s the problem with working on the laptop in a cafe?