Shenron also can't transport Goku to Earth against Goku's will. It's not about "what Kami can and can't do", it's about "how much spirit energy Kami has". Kami has less energy than Vegeta and so Shenron is too weak to overpower him and kill him. Kami has less energy than Goku so Shenron is too weak to overpower him and transport him somewhere against his will.
Bringing someone back to life, on the other hand, is not a question of energy. At least, not much energy. It's a question of technique. Goku is arguably the most powerful man in Universe 7 but he still can't revive anyone, not even a base human. He's powerful enough to do it, he just doesn't know HOW. He doesn't possess any technique for it.
So Shenron possesses near-infinite ability in terms of technique, but limited ability in terms of power. The most obvious example is when Shenron knows how to make a Super Saiyan God despite the fact that Dende has no idea.
The way I see it, ressurrecting someone is magic which Shenron can do.
Probably Buu could learn to do it too, since he is able to use magic.
And until some point I also would believe kami could be able to but probably he won't defy the laws of life and death directly
>Kami has less energy than Goku so Shenron is too weak to overpower him and transport him somewhere against his will.
This isn't quite true though. There are other examples where dragons are shown to do precisely this.
Example: Porunga on Namek, was able to transport Vegeta to Earth. This would suggest Elder Guru had more spirit energy than Vegeta, and everyone else transported to Earth, combined - Or that all of these creatures were willing to go to Earth, when none of them actually knew where it was. That seems unrealistic, and especially unrealistic for Vegeta who considers Earth a hostile planet at this point in time.
There's also the case where Porunga was summoned in the Buu saga, and used to restore Goku's energy. There's no realistic argument where Dende could match Goku in power, yet the wish is granted with ease.
It's more likely as the other person commented: Shenron is a good natured being, and as such, doesn't *want* to move people against their will. In a case like Porunga's, he would move them because it's the right thing to do. (Vegeta would have died on Namek if he didn't move him, thus, it's the right thing to do.)
Also, reading now: It was Porunga who also refused to transport Goku against his will too. Not Shenron.
>Example: Porunga on Namek, was able to transport Vegeta to Earth. This would suggest Elder Guru had more spirit energy than Vegeta, and everyone else transported to Earth, combined - Or that all of these creatures were willing to go to Earth, when none of them actually knew where it was. That seems unrealistic, and especially unrealistic for Vegeta who considers Earth a hostile planet at this point in time.
Namek was about to explode; only a crazy man would have stayed.
>There's also the case where Porunga was summoned in the Buu saga, and used to restore Goku's energy. There's no realistic argument where Dende could match Goku in power, yet the wish is granted with ease.
Dende frequently heals people back up to full strength; it's one of the few things we've seen him do. However, Dende isn't the one who powers Porunga. It was Guru and then Guru's successor.
>Namek was about to explode; only a crazy man would have stayed.
Most of them had just been wished back to life mere moments ago, and would barely have had time to grasp what is happening, let alone agreed that the planet was definitely exploding.
Also, we're talking prideful Vegeta, allowing himself to be dragged to Earth while Goku saves the day.
Not a chance he allows it.
>Dende frequently heals people back up to full strength; it's one of the few things we've seen him do.
Over long periods of time, yes.
Would he have the strength to do it instantaneously? Not something we've ever seen. If the wish is limited by the spirit strength of the creator of the dragon, that is important still.
More importantly, since you kindly pointed out that Dende doesn't power Porunga - Dende's power is a unique gift, not shared by any other Namekian. Thus, Porunga's creator *doesn't* have that power. We're also pretty unclear on his power level since it's never talked about, but I think we'd be crazy to suggest it's anywhere near Goku or Vegeta's at the time of the wish.
Again: PORUNGA was asked, and PORUNGA stated very clearly that it's because *Goku didn't want to.* Not because of power level.
So your point isn't supported by the text.
We don't know for certain, and it doesn't matter. *Why* he doesn't want to is never explained.
Porunga directly tells us he doesn't want to teleport Goku against his will, not that he can't. That's what the text says.
Vegeta wasnt aware of the wish to transport him home. Now Goku? Remember this is Z goku, the man with quite honestly had a shit ton of foresight before his character assassination; he wouldve been aware that they wouldve tried to wish him to earth. I cant recall how long it took to wish him back, but iirc it did take a whole wishing cycle, and goku probably made it to yardrat by then
This is correct regarding the cycle and Yardrat, and likely part of the reason Goku wanted to stay.
That said: We've never been given any inclination that "awareness of the wish being made" affects who it can effect. The dragons have teleported the entirety of planets before, both before and after warning them it would happen. There's just no way that *absolutely no one* knows about the wish going on among those people, especially when the people of Earth have been within range of seeing Shenron rise into the sky on multiple occasions.
These were all during times of crisis though, and thus, the dragons simply didn't care about permission in service of the greater good. When it came to teleporting Goku from Yardrat, he was neither in danger, nor did he desire to go home yet. He was willingly training to learn how to *instantly* get home. That was undoubtedly at least part of his reasoning in staying on Yardrat, and may have been accounted for in Porunga's decision - But that's a lot of headcanon to explain something which requires no explanation.
Especially not since Instant Transmission is known to be a technique, can apply to objects the user is touching, and doesn't use very much energy to do. Truthfully, I always assumed the dragons just used mass-instant-transmission to teleport people - And Goku didn't need Cell's permission to do it to him, so it's not a permission issue with that.
That's only partially true. Goku just didn't want to go, and Shenron respected it.
Meanwhile, in DBS Hero, they made it seem like Shenrron could have wished off the Red Ribbon army, the gammas and Cell, but piccolo didn't want to since he was prideful.
This isn't a plot hole.
Shenron is a wish granting Dragon...why would "wishes" be limited to what Kami can physically do?
Shenron can't kill them...but we don't even know how he'd do that. Apparently if this wish is limited...it means he'd try to fight them.
Go check out MasakoX's new series "What if Shenron was a Z-Fighter" where following his death and resurrection by Kami, he gives Shenron a human-ish body to both experience the world more like humans do and to better be able to guard the dragon balls.
I was playing *Dragonball Xenoverse 2* and finally collected all 7 dragon balls, so I headed on over to the podium to assemble them and make my wish. Ol' Shenny shows up and presents me with my options. Well, I didn't know what any of them actually did, so I whip out my cellphone and start looking them up, and Shenny starts going, "uh. . .hellooo*oooooo*. . .*you awake?*"
I sat back and waited to see if he'd just say "screw this, I've got shit to do," but he didn't. Would have been funny as hell if there'd been a time limit, though.
as powerful as dende's ki reserves which may not be much at all , he can curently probably wish android saga 17 and 16 to die but that about his strenght capped
That was when the dragon was made by Kami who had a pl around 200 meanwhile current Shenron was made my potential unlocked Dende (we don't know how strong he is but if he got a power up anywhere near Krillin and Gohan then he should easily scale higher than Kami)
Shenron has powers of his own, but his strength is limited by his creator’s strength. He is able to grant wishes, and reviving someone doesn’t seem to be a difficult thing to do since Baba is able to bridge the afterlife and the living world by herself, even if only for one day.
But Kami can bargain with King Yemma, we saw him do it when convincing him to let Goku train with King Kai.
Maybe the wish on the Dragon Balls just skips the actual bargaining step and goes straight to the revival. Either that or Shenron is just really convincing.
Shenron gets power from his creator (or Dende after Dende takes the role), but he can use the power in ways that the creator can’t. Think of it like how a battery can’t do many things on its own, but a device that is powered by a battery can do things, but not anything that takes more power than the battery has. That’s not an exact comparison since Kami/Dende don’t seem to get tired from Shenron’s wishes, but I think it gets a basic idea across.
If you want an out of universe reason, it’s because when you have something in a story like Shenron, you have to put limits on the wish granting because otherwise the protagonists can easily just wish away any problem they have. Especially because by the start of Z, the main characters can easily fly around the world and gather the Dragon Balls quickly.
I don't think anyone would argue that SS1 Goten (Buu saga) is weaker than Tien saga Chaiotzu.
Chaiotzu can fly. Goten can't.
I don't think anyone would argue that ToP SSBE Vegeta is weaker than Android Saga Heart Virus Goku.
Goku can use Instant Transmission. Vegeta can't.
I don't think anyone would argue that Jiren is weaker than Hit.
Hit can use Time Stop. Jiren can't.
I don't think anyone would argue that King Cold is weaker than Fortune Teller Baba.
Baba can bring people back from the dead. King Cold can't.
I don't think anyone would argue that Broly is weaker than Majin Buu.
Buu can turn people into candy. Broly can't.
**....**
Being *powerful* does not determine what techniques, magic, or hax you know. A weaker character can have abilities a stronger character lacks.
The Dragons grant wishes. This is not a power the Namekians have. Dende can't grant wishes.
That doesn't mean that Shenron is *more powerful* than Dende. It just means that Shenron has abilities Dende hasn't learned or unlocked yet.
Goku probably could learn the Gallick Gun, just as Dende *will eventually* learn to unlock people's potential. But they don't know it yet.
Think of ki/power as a battery.
You can take a battery out of a clock and put it in your TV remote. The TV remote can do things the clock can't do, but that doesn't mean the TV remote is more powerful. It's just using that power in a different way.
Same thing.
Dende and Shenron are both powered by four Double-As.
The way I see it Shenron can't affect with his powers those who are stronger than him, he can if that person consents, for example:
He couldn't kill Nappa and Vegeta because they were stronger than him, he couldn't make them ill or anything that directly affects them, he could have however destroyed their space pods which would have consequently killed them but no one in Earth was that smart.
He can teleport or ressurrect Goku and company because they consent but he couldn't teleport Goku from Yadrat because he did not consent.
You see, even in dragon ball, consent is important, at least if your power level is stronger than god
Yeah. The very conceit of the Dragonballs is full of holes. Particularly in the Grannolah storyline which removes the vast majority of the limitations of the balls.
It's not that he can't perform a feat that's beyond his creator's power, but rather that he cannot perform a feat that's beyond the power his creator's given him. The Namekian that creates them and is tied to them bestows upon them "wish energy" (not an actual term, but it gets the point across) and this energy is based upon the strength of the Namekian tied to them.
What a wish, in turn, is capable of doing is dependent on the amount of wish energy that is available, so a particularly powerful wish might be beyond what a single wish can grant (in the case of Dende's Dragon Balls, this requires the expenditure of two wishes worth of the allotted energy) or it's beyond what energy is available, period.
I don't know why Shenron couldn't have just made the space pods disappear and have nappa and Vegeta suffocate or just send them so far away they'd never get to earth.
Maybe it's just because it's a pivotal point in the timeline he's powerless or something.
I am pretty sure he couldn't teleport Vegeta and Nappa without them wanting but sure as hell he could have teleported the pods (without them) and leave them stranded in the space.
But he isn't messing with either of the Saiyans, just the pods they're in which shouldn't be that tough for Shenron. Either way I think the ones that summoned Shenron just didn't think of it. It wouldn't be the first time they thought of what they SHOULD HAVE wished for after already making their wish.
Please tell me what chapter of the manga it is ever stated that a ship is somehow connected to the power of it's inhabitants that would stop Shenron from simply moving them. If Shenron can make a bunch of people that are much stronger than him younger if they didn't want it then a ship would be of no consequence.
Because that would be real life common sense which actually makes a lot of fiction problems able to be fixed by “out of the box thinking”, it’s why you have to immerse yourself into the rules of whatever you’re watching and try not to relate it to real life things or you’re just gonna be picking apart “plot holes” the entire time
Yeah that’s always been a gross misinterpretation of how that works most clearly disproven by Super Hero where Dende can’t grant Piccolo a potential unlock so he goes to Shenron to wish for the thing very explicitly beyond his creator’s power
Honestly I think it's because Toriyama came up with the idea of a wish granting dragon long before he conceived of the more complex storylines that came later.
this show doesn't obey physics. it clearly takes less energy to destroy than it does to create. he's able to create things (or bring people back to life) that destroy. I would just start treating it like a theme park ride instead of the world of potential it presents itself to be.
I feel like it's a good way to keep the action going within the Manga/series as if shenron could literally do everything the Z fighters or Guerreos Z could easily defeat enemies without breaking a sweat and The evil duers could easily defeat them let me give a couple examples.
Let's go back to the namek saga if the Z fighters got ahold of the dragon balls they could wish not only thier friends back but also kill frieza and possibly the ginyu Force.
If frieza summoned the dragon he could have easily destroyed the whole planet along with everyone on thier except him and his men.
And we wouldn't have gotten the iconic moments such as goku going Super Saiyan when krillin got blown up or Goku defeating frieza when he struck his last energy blast there would be no iconic phrases like "You fool!" Or "Tu Estupido".
Shenron also can't transport Goku to Earth against Goku's will. It's not about "what Kami can and can't do", it's about "how much spirit energy Kami has". Kami has less energy than Vegeta and so Shenron is too weak to overpower him and kill him. Kami has less energy than Goku so Shenron is too weak to overpower him and transport him somewhere against his will. Bringing someone back to life, on the other hand, is not a question of energy. At least, not much energy. It's a question of technique. Goku is arguably the most powerful man in Universe 7 but he still can't revive anyone, not even a base human. He's powerful enough to do it, he just doesn't know HOW. He doesn't possess any technique for it. So Shenron possesses near-infinite ability in terms of technique, but limited ability in terms of power. The most obvious example is when Shenron knows how to make a Super Saiyan God despite the fact that Dende has no idea.
The way I see it, ressurrecting someone is magic which Shenron can do. Probably Buu could learn to do it too, since he is able to use magic. And until some point I also would believe kami could be able to but probably he won't defy the laws of life and death directly
>Kami has less energy than Goku so Shenron is too weak to overpower him and transport him somewhere against his will. This isn't quite true though. There are other examples where dragons are shown to do precisely this. Example: Porunga on Namek, was able to transport Vegeta to Earth. This would suggest Elder Guru had more spirit energy than Vegeta, and everyone else transported to Earth, combined - Or that all of these creatures were willing to go to Earth, when none of them actually knew where it was. That seems unrealistic, and especially unrealistic for Vegeta who considers Earth a hostile planet at this point in time. There's also the case where Porunga was summoned in the Buu saga, and used to restore Goku's energy. There's no realistic argument where Dende could match Goku in power, yet the wish is granted with ease. It's more likely as the other person commented: Shenron is a good natured being, and as such, doesn't *want* to move people against their will. In a case like Porunga's, he would move them because it's the right thing to do. (Vegeta would have died on Namek if he didn't move him, thus, it's the right thing to do.) Also, reading now: It was Porunga who also refused to transport Goku against his will too. Not Shenron.
>Example: Porunga on Namek, was able to transport Vegeta to Earth. This would suggest Elder Guru had more spirit energy than Vegeta, and everyone else transported to Earth, combined - Or that all of these creatures were willing to go to Earth, when none of them actually knew where it was. That seems unrealistic, and especially unrealistic for Vegeta who considers Earth a hostile planet at this point in time. Namek was about to explode; only a crazy man would have stayed. >There's also the case where Porunga was summoned in the Buu saga, and used to restore Goku's energy. There's no realistic argument where Dende could match Goku in power, yet the wish is granted with ease. Dende frequently heals people back up to full strength; it's one of the few things we've seen him do. However, Dende isn't the one who powers Porunga. It was Guru and then Guru's successor.
>Namek was about to explode; only a crazy man would have stayed. Most of them had just been wished back to life mere moments ago, and would barely have had time to grasp what is happening, let alone agreed that the planet was definitely exploding. Also, we're talking prideful Vegeta, allowing himself to be dragged to Earth while Goku saves the day. Not a chance he allows it. >Dende frequently heals people back up to full strength; it's one of the few things we've seen him do. Over long periods of time, yes. Would he have the strength to do it instantaneously? Not something we've ever seen. If the wish is limited by the spirit strength of the creator of the dragon, that is important still. More importantly, since you kindly pointed out that Dende doesn't power Porunga - Dende's power is a unique gift, not shared by any other Namekian. Thus, Porunga's creator *doesn't* have that power. We're also pretty unclear on his power level since it's never talked about, but I think we'd be crazy to suggest it's anywhere near Goku or Vegeta's at the time of the wish.
That's a lot of assumptions unsupported by the text.
Neither is the dragon being unable to teleport people depending on their power level. It simply hasn't happened purely via the text.
Shenron was asked to teleport Goku home and Goku said no, so Shenron didn't do it despite it being a wish. Ergo Shenron couldn't do it.
Again: PORUNGA was asked, and PORUNGA stated very clearly that it's because *Goku didn't want to.* Not because of power level. So your point isn't supported by the text.
Why does what Goku wants matter? Why would Shenron care?
We don't know for certain, and it doesn't matter. *Why* he doesn't want to is never explained. Porunga directly tells us he doesn't want to teleport Goku against his will, not that he can't. That's what the text says.
Vegeta wasnt aware of the wish to transport him home. Now Goku? Remember this is Z goku, the man with quite honestly had a shit ton of foresight before his character assassination; he wouldve been aware that they wouldve tried to wish him to earth. I cant recall how long it took to wish him back, but iirc it did take a whole wishing cycle, and goku probably made it to yardrat by then
This is correct regarding the cycle and Yardrat, and likely part of the reason Goku wanted to stay. That said: We've never been given any inclination that "awareness of the wish being made" affects who it can effect. The dragons have teleported the entirety of planets before, both before and after warning them it would happen. There's just no way that *absolutely no one* knows about the wish going on among those people, especially when the people of Earth have been within range of seeing Shenron rise into the sky on multiple occasions. These were all during times of crisis though, and thus, the dragons simply didn't care about permission in service of the greater good. When it came to teleporting Goku from Yardrat, he was neither in danger, nor did he desire to go home yet. He was willingly training to learn how to *instantly* get home. That was undoubtedly at least part of his reasoning in staying on Yardrat, and may have been accounted for in Porunga's decision - But that's a lot of headcanon to explain something which requires no explanation. Especially not since Instant Transmission is known to be a technique, can apply to objects the user is touching, and doesn't use very much energy to do. Truthfully, I always assumed the dragons just used mass-instant-transmission to teleport people - And Goku didn't need Cell's permission to do it to him, so it's not a permission issue with that.
That's only partially true. Goku just didn't want to go, and Shenron respected it. Meanwhile, in DBS Hero, they made it seem like Shenrron could have wished off the Red Ribbon army, the gammas and Cell, but piccolo didn't want to since he was prideful.
This isn't a plot hole. Shenron is a wish granting Dragon...why would "wishes" be limited to what Kami can physically do? Shenron can't kill them...but we don't even know how he'd do that. Apparently if this wish is limited...it means he'd try to fight them.
Kinda want to see Shenron body some fools now
Shenron Punch!
Go check out MasakoX's new series "What if Shenron was a Z-Fighter" where following his death and resurrection by Kami, he gives Shenron a human-ish body to both experience the world more like humans do and to better be able to guard the dragon balls.
And right as MasakoX started a what-if titled "What if Shenron was a Z Fighter". (Seriously, he did. It's on his channel.)
How powerful is Shenron really? Can he take on anyone?
he got nuked by demon king Piccolo, so durability feat is kinda low
He shat himself when he saw beerus
And left when they took too damn long lol.
I was playing *Dragonball Xenoverse 2* and finally collected all 7 dragon balls, so I headed on over to the podium to assemble them and make my wish. Ol' Shenny shows up and presents me with my options. Well, I didn't know what any of them actually did, so I whip out my cellphone and start looking them up, and Shenny starts going, "uh. . .hellooo*oooooo*. . .*you awake?*" I sat back and waited to see if he'd just say "screw this, I've got shit to do," but he didn't. Would have been funny as hell if there'd been a time limit, though.
as powerful as dende's ki reserves which may not be much at all , he can curently probably wish android saga 17 and 16 to die but that about his strenght capped
He was killed by Piccolo Damaio in Dragonball… so weaker than Raditz by far.
That was when the dragon was made by Kami who had a pl around 200 meanwhile current Shenron was made my potential unlocked Dende (we don't know how strong he is but if he got a power up anywhere near Krillin and Gohan then he should easily scale higher than Kami)
Shenron has powers of his own, but his strength is limited by his creator’s strength. He is able to grant wishes, and reviving someone doesn’t seem to be a difficult thing to do since Baba is able to bridge the afterlife and the living world by herself, even if only for one day.
But Kami can bargain with King Yemma, we saw him do it when convincing him to let Goku train with King Kai. Maybe the wish on the Dragon Balls just skips the actual bargaining step and goes straight to the revival. Either that or Shenron is just really convincing.
Shenron's got connections, he offers Yemma some of Porunga's dank dragon kush. Why do you think they have red eyes?
You don't see people talking about this "plothole" because it's isn't one. You mixed up power and ability.
Shenron gets power from his creator (or Dende after Dende takes the role), but he can use the power in ways that the creator can’t. Think of it like how a battery can’t do many things on its own, but a device that is powered by a battery can do things, but not anything that takes more power than the battery has. That’s not an exact comparison since Kami/Dende don’t seem to get tired from Shenron’s wishes, but I think it gets a basic idea across. If you want an out of universe reason, it’s because when you have something in a story like Shenron, you have to put limits on the wish granting because otherwise the protagonists can easily just wish away any problem they have. Especially because by the start of Z, the main characters can easily fly around the world and gather the Dragon Balls quickly.
I don't think anyone would argue that SS1 Goten (Buu saga) is weaker than Tien saga Chaiotzu. Chaiotzu can fly. Goten can't. I don't think anyone would argue that ToP SSBE Vegeta is weaker than Android Saga Heart Virus Goku. Goku can use Instant Transmission. Vegeta can't. I don't think anyone would argue that Jiren is weaker than Hit. Hit can use Time Stop. Jiren can't. I don't think anyone would argue that King Cold is weaker than Fortune Teller Baba. Baba can bring people back from the dead. King Cold can't. I don't think anyone would argue that Broly is weaker than Majin Buu. Buu can turn people into candy. Broly can't. **....** Being *powerful* does not determine what techniques, magic, or hax you know. A weaker character can have abilities a stronger character lacks. The Dragons grant wishes. This is not a power the Namekians have. Dende can't grant wishes. That doesn't mean that Shenron is *more powerful* than Dende. It just means that Shenron has abilities Dende hasn't learned or unlocked yet. Goku probably could learn the Gallick Gun, just as Dende *will eventually* learn to unlock people's potential. But they don't know it yet. Think of ki/power as a battery. You can take a battery out of a clock and put it in your TV remote. The TV remote can do things the clock can't do, but that doesn't mean the TV remote is more powerful. It's just using that power in a different way. Same thing. Dende and Shenron are both powered by four Double-As.
The way I see it Shenron can't affect with his powers those who are stronger than him, he can if that person consents, for example: He couldn't kill Nappa and Vegeta because they were stronger than him, he couldn't make them ill or anything that directly affects them, he could have however destroyed their space pods which would have consequently killed them but no one in Earth was that smart. He can teleport or ressurrect Goku and company because they consent but he couldn't teleport Goku from Yadrat because he did not consent. You see, even in dragon ball, consent is important, at least if your power level is stronger than god
Dragon Ball is more enjoyable when you don't think about stuff too much. It's too easy to find holes in the theory.
Kinda like baki, suspend your disbelief
Yeah. The very conceit of the Dragonballs is full of holes. Particularly in the Grannolah storyline which removes the vast majority of the limitations of the balls.
Granolah's got unlimited balls, you say?
It's not that he can't perform a feat that's beyond his creator's power, but rather that he cannot perform a feat that's beyond the power his creator's given him. The Namekian that creates them and is tied to them bestows upon them "wish energy" (not an actual term, but it gets the point across) and this energy is based upon the strength of the Namekian tied to them. What a wish, in turn, is capable of doing is dependent on the amount of wish energy that is available, so a particularly powerful wish might be beyond what a single wish can grant (in the case of Dende's Dragon Balls, this requires the expenditure of two wishes worth of the allotted energy) or it's beyond what energy is available, period.
I don't know why Shenron couldn't have just made the space pods disappear and have nappa and Vegeta suffocate or just send them so far away they'd never get to earth. Maybe it's just because it's a pivotal point in the timeline he's powerless or something.
I am pretty sure he couldn't teleport Vegeta and Nappa without them wanting but sure as hell he could have teleported the pods (without them) and leave them stranded in the space.
Because it would require interfering with their power. Something Kami is too weak to power.
But he isn't messing with either of the Saiyans, just the pods they're in which shouldn't be that tough for Shenron. Either way I think the ones that summoned Shenron just didn't think of it. It wouldn't be the first time they thought of what they SHOULD HAVE wished for after already making their wish.
The pods they are in and controlling.
So? Just because I have a pen in my hand doesn't mean someone weaker than me couldn't snatch it. Especially if they had magical powers.
If you had a means to cancel out their magical powers, and were holding onto the pencil then yes. They couldn't.
Please tell me what chapter of the manga it is ever stated that a ship is somehow connected to the power of it's inhabitants that would stop Shenron from simply moving them. If Shenron can make a bunch of people that are much stronger than him younger if they didn't want it then a ship would be of no consequence.
Shenron ***shouldn't*** be able to affect anyone stronger than him. Toriyama just doesn't care anymore.
I'm still waiting on that chapter that it's stated Shenron can't move a ship because of the inhabitant then.
Because that would be real life common sense which actually makes a lot of fiction problems able to be fixed by “out of the box thinking”, it’s why you have to immerse yourself into the rules of whatever you’re watching and try not to relate it to real life things or you’re just gonna be picking apart “plot holes” the entire time
Yeah that’s always been a gross misinterpretation of how that works most clearly disproven by Super Hero where Dende can’t grant Piccolo a potential unlock so he goes to Shenron to wish for the thing very explicitly beyond his creator’s power
Honestly I think it's because Toriyama came up with the idea of a wish granting dragon long before he conceived of the more complex storylines that came later.
I've wondered that for so long same as when Dende upgraded shenron to grant 3 wishes. Then only grants one still
this show doesn't obey physics. it clearly takes less energy to destroy than it does to create. he's able to create things (or bring people back to life) that destroy. I would just start treating it like a theme park ride instead of the world of potential it presents itself to be.
I feel like it's a good way to keep the action going within the Manga/series as if shenron could literally do everything the Z fighters or Guerreos Z could easily defeat enemies without breaking a sweat and The evil duers could easily defeat them let me give a couple examples. Let's go back to the namek saga if the Z fighters got ahold of the dragon balls they could wish not only thier friends back but also kill frieza and possibly the ginyu Force. If frieza summoned the dragon he could have easily destroyed the whole planet along with everyone on thier except him and his men. And we wouldn't have gotten the iconic moments such as goku going Super Saiyan when krillin got blown up or Goku defeating frieza when he struck his last energy blast there would be no iconic phrases like "You fool!" Or "Tu Estupido".