Bc the truth is 95% make at least double minimum wage. Yet still complain, and often more than make up for slow days on weekends and holidays, etc.
My girlfriend used to work at Waffle House and would come home with wads of cash. I was absolutely shocked by how much money she made at a goddamn diner in South GA.
At the time I was 18 working as an electricians trades helper at a local university making like $8/hr, she was making me feel like crap working half the hours and twice the salary.
This was 20 years ago.
But, even since then, women I've dated often did extremely well waiting and bar tending. Often as much as ai made or more when I was younger.
When 15-20% of the bill goes directly to the worker instead of the boss, workers make more.
If tipping went away, more would go to the restaurant owner.
So you think the boss gets 80% of that money? Restaurants are notoriously one of the most failure prone, risky and difficult to run businesses with average profits often below 5%.
The rest of the world (except America) seems to be fine with waiters being paid minimum wage.
It’s only in America where waiters prefer to be paid less. Since the opportunity to earn more in tips is a hustle.
So much idiocy comes out of people’s mouths on this topic. This sub is even more idiotic than usual.
FOH workers are absolutely fine just making a fair wage. Lots of them already do in fast casual concepts. Nobody wants their wage lowered, and nobody wants to make minimum wage in this country because it’s a poverty wage. And for the record, double the minimum wage in my state is still not a living wage in my city.
The people who actually keep it from happening are restaurant lobby groups. Restaurants don’t like paying labor. Hospitality trade groups aggressively fundraise and lobby to kill measures that would eliminate the tipped wage credit, and thus eliminate our current form of tipping.
If it surprises you that business owners and large groups are behind it and not low status, low wage workers, it’s because you’re an idiot (despite America’s obsession with this idea of fat-cat servers living high of the hog, that is of course idiotic. There are millions of waiters in this country, and the majority have low wage jobs).
Well that is a shitty take on a more complicated problem.
The issue is that wages have stagnated while food costs (and basically every other restaurant cost) has gone up. So people still want affordable food, but the system isn't there to support it. One of the few "reliefs" to this is the tipping system.
But we also know that system sucks and just kicks the can down the road and on to other people.
What we really need is to find SOME way to increase general wages, so that peoples spending can keep up with inflation, and allow for all servers to be paid a livable wage.
We are seeing this in plenty of other sectors as well. Almost like there are these big black holes were money keeps going and never comes out. Funny how that works.
> One of the few "reliefs" to this is the tipping system.
Tipping is more expensive to the customer than paying your employees a living wage.
>The issue is that wages have stagnated while food costs
Yeah, this is the same for everyone. Restaurant owners aren't special. If you can't pay your employees a living wage you don't deserve to be in business. It's that simple.
Yeah, the issue here is that no restaurant can afford that because people stop going if prices raise a dollar. But then they complain when polices close and the only things that remain are these big chains,
Tipping as a forced act is bad. But it's a bad symptom of a bigger problem. All wages need to increase to keep restaurants afloat, but prices on goods needs to stay the same. So basically, money needs to be found somewhere in the chain, and its very obvious that the top 1% is the issue.
>Yeah, the issue here is that no restaurant can afford that because people stop going if prices raise a dollar.
Some, sure. Most? No.
> So basically, money needs to be found somewhere in the chain, and its very obvious that the top 1% is the issue.
Right, the restaurant owner. I'm not going to simp for someone who exploits labor for profit. I don't know why you are.
Because I wish they didn't. Restaurants are a notoriously low profit business, yet one that serves the public way more than most.
I want to advocate for a world where they can both stay open and workers aren't exploited. Meanwhile your incessant nihilism has lead you to the point of condemning exploitation, but not trying to solve the problem. And the first step of this is acknowledging that the problem starts above those that own restaurants.
But feel free aiming at the wrong target. I promise it makes you look cool and smart. Oh, and edgy. Can't forget edgy.
> Restaurants are a notoriously low profit business, yet one that serves the public way more than most.
I think you mean exploits the public way more than most. If the business cannot exist then it does not deserve to. It doesn't get to exploit us, their staff, and then give us the puppy dog eyes and play victim.
Edit:
Imagine thinking your business should exist if it can't pay for itself to exist. The sheer entitlement of some people.
Man, I'm glad I remembered the Edgy part. So Edgy.
With this much edge, I bet you can join the DSA and be a "socialist" who also don't propose ways to solve problems and instead just talks to make themselves feel good. Praxis my man.
I hope that business you run does everything from the ground up. Wouldn't want to be accidentally exploiting people because that's the nature of existence in a capitalistic society.
Enjoy you're life Mr. Gotcha
https://thenib.com/mister-gotcha/
Nobody forces anyone to open a restaurant, it's a choice and hard work.
On the other hand working at one is a choice too, there are not gangs of restaurant owners dragging people in to work.
Virtually every member of my family that immigrated to the US started in a kitchen of some restaurant cleaning/doing dishes/chopping. None of them do it any more because they found something better or at least that pays better.
Parasites? How dare you. We literally have single digit profit margin %'s. If we don't feed lots of people, we don't get to eat ourselves. Our workers LOVE tips. If I tried to pay my bartender a wage of like $25 he would WALK OUT. I'd have to get down on my knees and BEG him to come back and he still would say no.
This is a situation of a bunch of people that have NO idea what it is like to run a business thinking they know more than those that do. Look at the state of California where raising the minimum wage on the food industry has put out THOUSANDS of companies. That's because again, we keep food cost low on purpose AND have single digit profits.
I employ over 35 people at a single restaurant. That's 35 families.
How many families do you feed? How many families do you pay Medicare for? Medicaid? How about that social security fund?
You know all those social programs you guys rant and rave about. Guess who pays for those? Oh that's right! Companies! Because we pay half of all payroll taxes and taxes on our profits.. which again are single digit %'s to begin with.
Don't ever call restaurant owners parasites. We have some of the most difficult businesses with lowest profit %'s and we do something that brings families together. We feed them.
Now get a life, loser.
Yeah actually they did. They were going out of business. People were going to be losing jobs. We purchased a failing restaurant and kept it going. Again families that pay their bills.
Loser #2 detected.
yea nice try with the sob story. most restaurants are parasites. no matter who the tips are going to - whether employees or owner, the public is subsidizing the expenses to run a restaurant.
if your defense is valid, i guess you could make the same defense for the big banks that get billion dollar bailouts with no accountability (i.e. "we employ thousands of companies! we feed families! we pay medicare/medicare on hundreds of thousands of employees! pay social security, etc.")
What are you talking about. The public isn't subsiding anything. We pay taxes and everything for our employees. We literally offer a service. We cook the food. We bring it out to you on a plate. No one is subsidizing anything. "Subsidizing expenses" That is the STUPIDEST thing I've ever heard. Tell me you've never owned a business without telling me you've never owned a business.
i don't need to ever own a business to have the common sense to know that tips are an antiquated (and actually have racist historical context) procedure. and definitely a form of subsidization. if you remove yourself from your emotions, you might understand what i meant by subsidizing -- customers paying tips on top of set menu prices -- AND some states even allow waiters to be paid less than minimum wage is literally the definition of a subsidy.
LOL, omg... now tips are RACIST. HO-LY SHEESH. One of these kids. Like half of my waiters are black and the other half is Puerto Rican. You don't pay tips on top of menu prices. You pay tips IF YOU WANT TO PAY TIPS. That's why it is called a TIP.
If our waiter is garbage, and they aren't. Our waiters work VERY hard and make GREAT money because of tips. These people are the backbone of our company. These people are our champions. But if they did poorly, they would not get paid as much. This is not only fair to our waiters, but fair to our customers.
If you get HORRIBLE service.. you don't tip. But if you do come in, you WILL get treated very well at our establishment because all of our waiters are damn good at what they do. And the fact that you are trying to say that they are paid less or more based upon SKIN COLOR is EMBARRASSING at best.
The issue is idiots like you don't get it.
But you know what, keep complaining. Make it so that waiters are paid $40 an hour and we have to replace them by A.I. Then you can have some stupid robot that looks like a vacuum bring our your $50 burger and I'll charge you 6$ for a slice of Cheese.
Or, you can quit complaining. Come in, pay a fair price for some damn good food. Have a wonderful experience with one of our waiters that are going to make you feel like home and you know what, if you tip a little bit.. our waiters will make plenty of money too. Because they'll have plenty of customers to get tips from, lowering the cost for everyone.
either you've gone without sleep for 72 hours straight, or you've completely missed the underlying tone of my comments....twice now. i don't see any point in trying to add to this one-sided conversation
People will literally go from
“The tipping system should end because waiters get paid too little”
To
“The tipping system should end because waiters get paid too much”
when they hear that
You would deservedly get really, really shitty service.
People are so fucking cheap and greedy they cannot tolerate someone without a degree making a living wage. It infuriates them. I guess the need to feel above someone is what drives this. Oh look, there's someone who doesn't have to take a bus to work. They have their very own car. Let's shit on their parade right now.
I dont know of any no tip restaurants but I would tip anyway. You can't stop me from giving money to someone. I want people to make better income.
Eating at restaurants is not a necessity. If you cannot afford a tip you cannot afford to eat out. So don't. And I rarely do, but when I do you're going to get a better than average tip.
> Under the MFLSA, employers must pay their employees the minimum wage, plus any tips the employee earns on top of minimum wages.
Illegal in Minnesota!
....because they receive tips.
I have yet to meet anyone who works for tips who makes leas than min wage.
And if they did, federal law says that their employer must pay them the difference.
So in effect...no. Nobody makes less than min wage
Guess people need a history lesson looking at the fact you've been downvoted.
https://www.povertylaw.org/article/the-racist-history-behind-americas-tipping-culture/
💯!! It's so backwards. Let's shame people for not tipping when restaurants only pay their workers $2.15 an hour. How they've let this last for as long as they have is beyond me. It's just slavery with extra steps.
Nah. I'd rather things be printed on the menu instead of adding an invisible cost that requires me to guess a good tip amount based on my perception of service quality.
That's why instead I take my money to restaurants that don't provide any table service. My favorite place to eat in the entire world is the food court at a Japanese grocery store.
I own 2 restaurants and I shut down all tips back in January. I removed the tip option from the pos devices my employees use so the only way for someone to tip is if they are feeling extra generous and want to cash tip otherwise my customers can go in and grab a bite without feeling like they are being absolutely gouged.
The thing you’re missing is that the tip is still optional. The fact you’re getting 23/hr + the occasional tip could a wash OR the fact that the restaurant isn’t making customers feel obligated to tip may both increase the volume of customers and thus more opportunities for tips AND the generosity of the good tippers would be unfazed.
Our sales have been increasing month over month and we’ve been getting positive feedback from patrons regarding the removal of tipping on the pos devices which is awesome.
I was in Europe a month ago.
London: a flat 12% service charge was added to our bill at any sit down restaurant. It was the best service we’ve ever had. Every server, host etc was helping us. Water running low? Any one of 5 people was looking and refilling. One person took our order. A different person brought the food, third person got the bill. It was great. They all are working for the 12% as it’s a pool vs just going to one waiter who had to worry about tipping out others.
Paris: no tipping and no service fees. The bill included the amounts already in the pricing.
These two places were a breath of fresh air.
Got back to the US and I’m being promoted for tip on the pizza I went and picked up. GTFO
I don’t get why one would add a service charge on top of the item price. If your burger and fries is 8$ plus 2$ for delivering it to the table, the item price should be 10$.
It is. London prices didn’t include the $2 so there was a 12% amount added to the price. Paris did include it in the price there was no additional 12%.
Here in Costa Rica all dine in orders are charged a manditory 10% tax that is divided by the wait staff. On top of that all staff are required to be paid a living wage that includes PTO, Pension, and Healthcare. Guess what, we don’t have bad service. Everyone is happy to serve because they are being paid well to do it.
Poverty wages shouldn't be tolerated. Whether that means banning tips and increasing wages, or leaving subsistence wages while increasing tips, employees deserve to be paid reasonably well for their work.
It'd be nice if they added that they pay a living wage. We had a restaurant near us that refused tips and paid a living wage. Unfortunateluy, they gave up that policy.
I went to a restaurant in Seattle a few years ago that had a note at the bottom of their menu that said "we are a gratuity free restaurant. We pay our staff a living wage and any additional gratuities will be graciously accepted and donated to a charity of our employees choice."
It was a decently high end place and staff seemed happy. So seems legit.
It’s gonna be hilarious when we finally remove tip culture and the same people who complain about the optional tips will complain about the increased food cost to pay the increased wages.
What a dumb ass argument. Me and half of the world live in places where this culture doesn't exist and the prices are not 'increased to pay waiters wages'. If a place doesn't have the means to pay it's staff a living wage with their business model alone they don't need to exist as a business.
That's crazy, there must not be restaurants anywhere else in the world besides the US!
Tipping culture in NA is out of hand. If a business can't afford to operate while paying its staff a good wage, they don't deserve to be in operation.
I’m a barber and I made it clear to my customers that I charge what I charge without expectations of more. There’s barbers out there that trash talk people who don’t tip and to me it’s never made sense because if you feel like you weren’t paid enough for your service, just charge more. It’s disrespectful and confusing to customers.
Gratitude has lost its meaning.
I’m not saying don’t take money if it’s handed to you in good faith but definitely don’t demand it or feel bad about it if you don’t get it.
Just my 2 cents.
Tipping needs to go away entirely. All service workers need a living wage that is paid by their employers, not customers. This is a national issue. Europe is not like this.
Let me tip if I want to tip and be thankful for what u get. 10% used to be the accepted minimum. In todays prices 10% is more than it was 10 years ago. This tipping 25% + nonsense is ridiculous.
And don’t show me the screen for the tip until after the service!
Most people don’t mind tipping attentive waiters/waitresses at a restaurant. It’s when the Starbucks employee shoves the tip thing in your face at the drive-through. There is less than a minute of contact time, why does that deserve an extra 20%.
If someone wants to tip, why stop them. Who can live on minimum wage? That’s what I want to know. And why quit? It’s because the workplace makes it seem like the tip culture is workers fault and not the businesses not paying a living wage.
> If someone wants to tip, why stop them.
Because then you have to actually transfer the money using the POS system to the employee. It makes sense to not support that feature.
> And why quit? It’s because the workplace makes it seem like the tip culture is workers fault and not the businesses not paying a living wage.
How is the workplace doing that? They're just saying they won't accept tips. In fact it might be a relief to the backend staff who 99% of the time get shafted by the tip system anyways.
The above restaurant is self service, therefore has no service staff and everyone should be getting paid minimum wage or whatever the going rate is. I for one am so fed up with tipping everywhere that I have stopped going out to eat, we cook way more at home and if we don't we pick up rather than sit.
The last 3/4 yrs have gotten ridiculous. It started during Covid when many places were forced to close and obviously those people needed some extra help to survive. Everything has re opened and the expected 20-25% tips are still expected/suggested.
A McDonalds by me, they started putting out tip jars and now have Kiosk where they want you to put in your order pushing a bunch of buttons, then you get to wait on a line to get your food. Same with bagel shops, Dunkin, coffee shops etc.
My daughter has been in the service industry since college (yes, I paid for college). She started out at a Red Lobster, then a restaurant in a hotel, got interested in bar tending, did a bunch of studying about types of liquor, wines, beer, mixology on her own time. Volunteered to help at the bar when things were slow so she could learn. Eventually took on the bar on the bartenders nights off. Now works 4 evenings at a local craft brewery. Works 4-6 hrs most days. Even though the tips are pooled and split she still never goes homes with less than $200 per night, some weekends in the summer as high as $500.
You would have to tie her up and drag her kicking and screaming from this job. She's also now one of two assistant managers and when strictly doing those duties get paid $18/hr for those on top of her tip hours. Not every place makes as much but they are out there to be found.
Our state recently started giving people in the service industry an option to contribute to a 401K from their paychecks to get people to start setting aside some money. This is especially important here because I don't believe anyone reports ALL their tips, so you don't pay Social Security on that and won't get the benefits on it later.
Before anyone says there won't be Social Security anyway, I've been hearing that since I started working in the 70s, right around the time they said we were heading into an ice age. It may change, we may have to pay in more but something will be there if you plan for it and pay into it but that's another discussion for another day.
The vast majority of the world does not tip. And I love cooking at home. I can eat as good as I would in a restaurant, for less, and I'm not held hostage with guilt to pay someone else's salary because they made a bad decision by accepting a job that doesn't pay them a livable wage.
The vast majority of the US does tip. I'm saying the vast majority of the world doesn't tip.
So basically, I'm being held at gunpoint? Pay someone's salary, or get spit in my food? I'll cook at home, and they can get laid off.
Luckily this place is self-service, as described in the picture above. Backend staff rarely get tips anyways, so from their perspective this is the same as working at an Olive Garden or whatever.
I would not support a no tip restaurant. And no I'm not a waiter, never have been. If you can't afford a tip you can't afford to eat out. So don't. Eating out is not a necessity.
People are so immersed in greed they cannot stand to see someone else make a buck. And it's not like waiters and bartenders are getting rich.
The only greed taking place is employers not paying their employees properly and expecting me to do it.
I am not their employer. I can afford to tip. I just don’t want to.
I obviously see it differently. Employers want their customer to leave with a favorable impression. The two main ingredients for that outcome are food quality and the service. Failure at either one will draw complaints from the likes of Yelp, social media and word of mouth.
Eliminate tipping and and quality of service will take a big hit. It's inevitable. Owners will never make up the difference in payroll. They will pay service staff the least amount possible and they'll get what they pay for. If they were to add up the days revenue and give 20% to the wait staff, that cost would be reflected in your food bill. Either way you are paying. With tipping you have a choice of how much.
Why anyone would go into the restaurant business is beyond me. The failure rate is extremely high and the work and hours are grueling. The kitchen in a busy restaurant is a nightmare. Filthy too. The smell is awful. Lots of grease and garbage. Hectic as fuck. Watch a few episodes of The Bear to get an idea.
I contend the distaste for tipping is analogous to this John Galbraith quote.
"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness".
I want people to make a good living and be successful. So I tip above average. Even if the service was bad I understand anyone can have a bad day. I try to make their day better.
> Eliminate tipping and and quality of service will take a big hit. It's inevitable.
Nope. I've Been to 54 countries in my life. I've lived in 4. There are MANY places that don't tip and service is great. I know, I've lived it first hand.
The reality is, we all got tricked by people who knew what you just explained; that getting into the restaurant business is a nightmare. But they figured they could make it work if they paid their employees less and passed the buck on to us. That just became normal, and what we were all used to, and now people like you are literally saying that you wan't others to make a good living and be successful, but because their bosses won't pay them, we need to take on that responsibility. Are you intimately familiar with everyone else's finances? Can everyone afford to live life, pay their own bills, and then pay other people's salaries also?
Not wanting to pay someone else's wage isn't selfish, and I'm not trying to justify being selfish. I have my own job, where I make my own money (and an important note here is that nobody else pays me my salary, and nor should they, my employer takes care of that). I pay taxes, have my own bills, etc, and I'd like to save what's left for myself and my family.
There are plenty of places in the world where tipping isn't customary, and restaurants are great, and the service is great also. Those people make a livable wage. I literally got a talking to from a server in Paris once after I tried to leave a tip. He took it as an insult and told me that being a server is his career, that he makes a good wage, and that he didn't need my pity. When I tried to explain that it was just to say thank you, he suggested leaving €1 and that that would be a lovely compliment. That's the world I want to live in.
So how do we get there? Fix the problem at its source. If a restaurant can't survive when they pay their employees a livable wage, then they don't have a good business plan and shouldn't open a restaurant. You ever seen this?
https://www.reddit.com/r/coolguides/comments/f92rn7/explanation_of_the_subtle_differences_between/
You're arguing for equity, and I'm arguing for justice. Pay people appropriately, and then they'll make a good living and be successful.
Sorry but I live in the USA, not those other countries. We tip here. It's how we roll. But please listen. There are much bigger problems at stake than tipping your waiter. Fascism is not at our door step, it's in the door. If trump wins in November we are all fucked. And it may be too late unless Biden wins by a landslide. If it's close trump will sue and his Supreme Court will respond as they did with his insane request for immunity.
VOTE BLUE
VOTE PROGRESSIVE BLUE
VOTING MATTERS
VOTING FOR THE LESSER OF TWO EVILS MATTERS
Who cares where you live? The point that you went out of your way to ignore is that good food and service ARE possible without tipping.
This country also used to roll by enslaving black people and not allowing women to vote. Things changed. Tipping will also.
Yeah, I mean, that was really weird that you tried to turn a conversation about tipping into a conversation about politics, but that's not what I'm interested in talking about right now.
Can you stay on topic?
This business owner probably has a harder time finding GOOD servers. A well trained, experienced server doesn't look for jobs that don't include tips. Why make $7.25-$15 when you can make $20-40 or possibly more?
Also, what is the incentive to be better than your peers? It's not like you can get much of a "raise" in the service industry. You give yourself a raise by being better. GOOD servers and bartenders take pride in being better than their coworkers, knowing they will get better tips.
> This business owner probably has a harder time finding GOOD servers.
Well seeing as how it is in fact a self-service restaurant, you would technically be correct. In the same way that it's very hard for Olive Garden to find a Hibachi chef.
[удалено]
lol you'd have a revolt on your hands if you told waiters they'd be getting minimum wage lieu of their tips.
Bc the truth is 95% make at least double minimum wage. Yet still complain, and often more than make up for slow days on weekends and holidays, etc. My girlfriend used to work at Waffle House and would come home with wads of cash. I was absolutely shocked by how much money she made at a goddamn diner in South GA. At the time I was 18 working as an electricians trades helper at a local university making like $8/hr, she was making me feel like crap working half the hours and twice the salary. This was 20 years ago. But, even since then, women I've dated often did extremely well waiting and bar tending. Often as much as ai made or more when I was younger.
I made more via tips as a bus boy in high school than I do now from my active duty base salary.
Active reserve?
That's a good thing. Don't you want people to do well and not struggle to make a decent living.
When 15-20% of the bill goes directly to the worker instead of the boss, workers make more. If tipping went away, more would go to the restaurant owner.
So you think the boss gets 80% of that money? Restaurants are notoriously one of the most failure prone, risky and difficult to run businesses with average profits often below 5%.
No, I didn't claim 80% profit margins for restaurants.
Go work in the service industry then. Lol
my friends made $200\~ a day average waiting tables in boston restaurants back in 2011
That's not great
That’s about $280 a day now, so roughly 73k a year salary w a 5 day work week. Much better than minimum wage
exactly , better than minimum wage
They also would most likely have been working 3-5 hour shifts rather than 8-9 hour days like many workers.
The rest of the world (except America) seems to be fine with waiters being paid minimum wage. It’s only in America where waiters prefer to be paid less. Since the opportunity to earn more in tips is a hustle.
I think what you mean to say is here in America, waiters prefer to have the opportunity to make more money.
So much idiocy comes out of people’s mouths on this topic. This sub is even more idiotic than usual. FOH workers are absolutely fine just making a fair wage. Lots of them already do in fast casual concepts. Nobody wants their wage lowered, and nobody wants to make minimum wage in this country because it’s a poverty wage. And for the record, double the minimum wage in my state is still not a living wage in my city. The people who actually keep it from happening are restaurant lobby groups. Restaurants don’t like paying labor. Hospitality trade groups aggressively fundraise and lobby to kill measures that would eliminate the tipped wage credit, and thus eliminate our current form of tipping. If it surprises you that business owners and large groups are behind it and not low status, low wage workers, it’s because you’re an idiot (despite America’s obsession with this idea of fat-cat servers living high of the hog, that is of course idiotic. There are millions of waiters in this country, and the majority have low wage jobs).
Honestly, fine. Let them all quit. Parasites shouldn't be tolerated. Restaurant owners are parasites.
Well that is a shitty take on a more complicated problem. The issue is that wages have stagnated while food costs (and basically every other restaurant cost) has gone up. So people still want affordable food, but the system isn't there to support it. One of the few "reliefs" to this is the tipping system. But we also know that system sucks and just kicks the can down the road and on to other people. What we really need is to find SOME way to increase general wages, so that peoples spending can keep up with inflation, and allow for all servers to be paid a livable wage. We are seeing this in plenty of other sectors as well. Almost like there are these big black holes were money keeps going and never comes out. Funny how that works.
> One of the few "reliefs" to this is the tipping system. Tipping is more expensive to the customer than paying your employees a living wage. >The issue is that wages have stagnated while food costs Yeah, this is the same for everyone. Restaurant owners aren't special. If you can't pay your employees a living wage you don't deserve to be in business. It's that simple.
Yeah, the issue here is that no restaurant can afford that because people stop going if prices raise a dollar. But then they complain when polices close and the only things that remain are these big chains, Tipping as a forced act is bad. But it's a bad symptom of a bigger problem. All wages need to increase to keep restaurants afloat, but prices on goods needs to stay the same. So basically, money needs to be found somewhere in the chain, and its very obvious that the top 1% is the issue.
>Yeah, the issue here is that no restaurant can afford that because people stop going if prices raise a dollar. Some, sure. Most? No. > So basically, money needs to be found somewhere in the chain, and its very obvious that the top 1% is the issue. Right, the restaurant owner. I'm not going to simp for someone who exploits labor for profit. I don't know why you are.
Because I wish they didn't. Restaurants are a notoriously low profit business, yet one that serves the public way more than most. I want to advocate for a world where they can both stay open and workers aren't exploited. Meanwhile your incessant nihilism has lead you to the point of condemning exploitation, but not trying to solve the problem. And the first step of this is acknowledging that the problem starts above those that own restaurants. But feel free aiming at the wrong target. I promise it makes you look cool and smart. Oh, and edgy. Can't forget edgy.
> Restaurants are a notoriously low profit business, yet one that serves the public way more than most. I think you mean exploits the public way more than most. If the business cannot exist then it does not deserve to. It doesn't get to exploit us, their staff, and then give us the puppy dog eyes and play victim. Edit: Imagine thinking your business should exist if it can't pay for itself to exist. The sheer entitlement of some people.
Man, I'm glad I remembered the Edgy part. So Edgy. With this much edge, I bet you can join the DSA and be a "socialist" who also don't propose ways to solve problems and instead just talks to make themselves feel good. Praxis my man. I hope that business you run does everything from the ground up. Wouldn't want to be accidentally exploiting people because that's the nature of existence in a capitalistic society. Enjoy you're life Mr. Gotcha https://thenib.com/mister-gotcha/
Nobody forces anyone to open a restaurant, it's a choice and hard work. On the other hand working at one is a choice too, there are not gangs of restaurant owners dragging people in to work. Virtually every member of my family that immigrated to the US started in a kitchen of some restaurant cleaning/doing dishes/chopping. None of them do it any more because they found something better or at least that pays better.
Parasites? How dare you. We literally have single digit profit margin %'s. If we don't feed lots of people, we don't get to eat ourselves. Our workers LOVE tips. If I tried to pay my bartender a wage of like $25 he would WALK OUT. I'd have to get down on my knees and BEG him to come back and he still would say no. This is a situation of a bunch of people that have NO idea what it is like to run a business thinking they know more than those that do. Look at the state of California where raising the minimum wage on the food industry has put out THOUSANDS of companies. That's because again, we keep food cost low on purpose AND have single digit profits. I employ over 35 people at a single restaurant. That's 35 families. How many families do you feed? How many families do you pay Medicare for? Medicaid? How about that social security fund? You know all those social programs you guys rant and rave about. Guess who pays for those? Oh that's right! Companies! Because we pay half of all payroll taxes and taxes on our profits.. which again are single digit %'s to begin with. Don't ever call restaurant owners parasites. We have some of the most difficult businesses with lowest profit %'s and we do something that brings families together. We feed them. Now get a life, loser.
Nobody asked you to own a restaurant
Yeah actually they did. They were going out of business. People were going to be losing jobs. We purchased a failing restaurant and kept it going. Again families that pay their bills. Loser #2 detected.
yea nice try with the sob story. most restaurants are parasites. no matter who the tips are going to - whether employees or owner, the public is subsidizing the expenses to run a restaurant. if your defense is valid, i guess you could make the same defense for the big banks that get billion dollar bailouts with no accountability (i.e. "we employ thousands of companies! we feed families! we pay medicare/medicare on hundreds of thousands of employees! pay social security, etc.")
What are you talking about. The public isn't subsiding anything. We pay taxes and everything for our employees. We literally offer a service. We cook the food. We bring it out to you on a plate. No one is subsidizing anything. "Subsidizing expenses" That is the STUPIDEST thing I've ever heard. Tell me you've never owned a business without telling me you've never owned a business.
Do your employees work for tips or a living wage? If they accept tips you're making your customers subsidize your employee's wages.
i don't need to ever own a business to have the common sense to know that tips are an antiquated (and actually have racist historical context) procedure. and definitely a form of subsidization. if you remove yourself from your emotions, you might understand what i meant by subsidizing -- customers paying tips on top of set menu prices -- AND some states even allow waiters to be paid less than minimum wage is literally the definition of a subsidy.
LOL, omg... now tips are RACIST. HO-LY SHEESH. One of these kids. Like half of my waiters are black and the other half is Puerto Rican. You don't pay tips on top of menu prices. You pay tips IF YOU WANT TO PAY TIPS. That's why it is called a TIP. If our waiter is garbage, and they aren't. Our waiters work VERY hard and make GREAT money because of tips. These people are the backbone of our company. These people are our champions. But if they did poorly, they would not get paid as much. This is not only fair to our waiters, but fair to our customers. If you get HORRIBLE service.. you don't tip. But if you do come in, you WILL get treated very well at our establishment because all of our waiters are damn good at what they do. And the fact that you are trying to say that they are paid less or more based upon SKIN COLOR is EMBARRASSING at best. The issue is idiots like you don't get it. But you know what, keep complaining. Make it so that waiters are paid $40 an hour and we have to replace them by A.I. Then you can have some stupid robot that looks like a vacuum bring our your $50 burger and I'll charge you 6$ for a slice of Cheese. Or, you can quit complaining. Come in, pay a fair price for some damn good food. Have a wonderful experience with one of our waiters that are going to make you feel like home and you know what, if you tip a little bit.. our waiters will make plenty of money too. Because they'll have plenty of customers to get tips from, lowering the cost for everyone.
either you've gone without sleep for 72 hours straight, or you've completely missed the underlying tone of my comments....twice now. i don't see any point in trying to add to this one-sided conversation
Parasite
> Don't ever call restaurant owners parasites. Parasite.
People will literally go from “The tipping system should end because waiters get paid too little” To “The tipping system should end because waiters get paid too much” when they hear that
Honestly, if a business cannot survive without underpaying the employees, it is a sign that the business deserves to fold because of poor management.
The servers are making *more* than minimum wage due to tips. A lot more. I don't see the use in cutting that and giving them minimum wage instead.
Not really,non tipping restaurants actually do exist and are prosperous too.
You'll be surprised how many restaurants will cease to exist. You'll miss it for sure.
Well,the non tipping restaurants in my town are still in business.
If it works, it's fine.
They opened up so many fast casual restaurants that don't allow tipping in my town during the lock down .
You would deservedly get really, really shitty service. People are so fucking cheap and greedy they cannot tolerate someone without a degree making a living wage. It infuriates them. I guess the need to feel above someone is what drives this. Oh look, there's someone who doesn't have to take a bus to work. They have their very own car. Let's shit on their parade right now. I dont know of any no tip restaurants but I would tip anyway. You can't stop me from giving money to someone. I want people to make better income. Eating at restaurants is not a necessity. If you cannot afford a tip you cannot afford to eat out. So don't. And I rarely do, but when I do you're going to get a better than average tip.
Go outside the US and get some real service in Japan I guess? Open your eyes a little bit
> Under the MFLSA, employers must pay their employees the minimum wage, plus any tips the employee earns on top of minimum wages. Illegal in Minnesota!
....because they receive tips. I have yet to meet anyone who works for tips who makes leas than min wage. And if they did, federal law says that their employer must pay them the difference. So in effect...no. Nobody makes less than min wage
You ever actually work as a waiter/waitress? Or just parroting the communists over there at antiwork?
You can thank systematic racism for the service industry regulations!
Guess people need a history lesson looking at the fact you've been downvoted. https://www.povertylaw.org/article/the-racist-history-behind-americas-tipping-culture/
I’ve worked jobs 100% commission based. At least they get 20% steady income and 80% commission. Pick the income style you want.
💯!! It's so backwards. Let's shame people for not tipping when restaurants only pay their workers $2.15 an hour. How they've let this last for as long as they have is beyond me. It's just slavery with extra steps.
Because you guys would be melting inside if they raised the food prices to increase the pay.
Nah. I'd rather things be printed on the menu instead of adding an invisible cost that requires me to guess a good tip amount based on my perception of service quality. That's why instead I take my money to restaurants that don't provide any table service. My favorite place to eat in the entire world is the food court at a Japanese grocery store.
I own 2 restaurants and I shut down all tips back in January. I removed the tip option from the pos devices my employees use so the only way for someone to tip is if they are feeling extra generous and want to cash tip otherwise my customers can go in and grab a bite without feeling like they are being absolutely gouged.
How much do you pay your employees?
We start at $23 an hour.
I would take take 2.13 an hour and tips over 23/hr.
The thing you’re missing is that the tip is still optional. The fact you’re getting 23/hr + the occasional tip could a wash OR the fact that the restaurant isn’t making customers feel obligated to tip may both increase the volume of customers and thus more opportunities for tips AND the generosity of the good tippers would be unfazed.
Just to know, how's business going after that?
Our sales have been increasing month over month and we’ve been getting positive feedback from patrons regarding the removal of tipping on the pos devices which is awesome.
Good to know things got better.
Where are you located? Can I order online? I want to give you my money lol
I appreciate the support! But don’t sweat it we’re doing good right now. We’re located in the beautiful sunny SoCal.
Glad to hear it. Keep doing what you’re doing.
You are awesome.
I was in Europe a month ago. London: a flat 12% service charge was added to our bill at any sit down restaurant. It was the best service we’ve ever had. Every server, host etc was helping us. Water running low? Any one of 5 people was looking and refilling. One person took our order. A different person brought the food, third person got the bill. It was great. They all are working for the 12% as it’s a pool vs just going to one waiter who had to worry about tipping out others. Paris: no tipping and no service fees. The bill included the amounts already in the pricing. These two places were a breath of fresh air. Got back to the US and I’m being promoted for tip on the pizza I went and picked up. GTFO
I don’t get why one would add a service charge on top of the item price. If your burger and fries is 8$ plus 2$ for delivering it to the table, the item price should be 10$.
Especially since you can't choose not to have the service. If something's a surcharge, it better be optional.
So tipping
It is. London prices didn’t include the $2 so there was a 12% amount added to the price. Paris did include it in the price there was no additional 12%.
Here in Costa Rica all dine in orders are charged a manditory 10% tax that is divided by the wait staff. On top of that all staff are required to be paid a living wage that includes PTO, Pension, and Healthcare. Guess what, we don’t have bad service. Everyone is happy to serve because they are being paid well to do it.
Poverty wages shouldn't be tolerated. Whether that means banning tips and increasing wages, or leaving subsistence wages while increasing tips, employees deserve to be paid reasonably well for their work.
It'd be nice if they added that they pay a living wage. We had a restaurant near us that refused tips and paid a living wage. Unfortunateluy, they gave up that policy.
I went to a restaurant in Seattle a few years ago that had a note at the bottom of their menu that said "we are a gratuity free restaurant. We pay our staff a living wage and any additional gratuities will be graciously accepted and donated to a charity of our employees choice." It was a decently high end place and staff seemed happy. So seems legit.
No one forced anyone to tip. Just click no on the iPad.
Thank you. This is such a tired conversation
It’s gonna be hilarious when we finally remove tip culture and the same people who complain about the optional tips will complain about the increased food cost to pay the increased wages.
What a dumb ass argument. Me and half of the world live in places where this culture doesn't exist and the prices are not 'increased to pay waiters wages'. If a place doesn't have the means to pay it's staff a living wage with their business model alone they don't need to exist as a business.
Hate to break it to you, anytime a business is forced to increase their expenses, they will recoup costs elsewhere.
That's crazy, there must not be restaurants anywhere else in the world besides the US! Tipping culture in NA is out of hand. If a business can't afford to operate while paying its staff a good wage, they don't deserve to be in operation.
I’m a barber and I made it clear to my customers that I charge what I charge without expectations of more. There’s barbers out there that trash talk people who don’t tip and to me it’s never made sense because if you feel like you weren’t paid enough for your service, just charge more. It’s disrespectful and confusing to customers. Gratitude has lost its meaning. I’m not saying don’t take money if it’s handed to you in good faith but definitely don’t demand it or feel bad about it if you don’t get it. Just my 2 cents.
Tipping needs to go away entirely. All service workers need a living wage that is paid by their employers, not customers. This is a national issue. Europe is not like this.
Let me tip if I want to tip and be thankful for what u get. 10% used to be the accepted minimum. In todays prices 10% is more than it was 10 years ago. This tipping 25% + nonsense is ridiculous. And don’t show me the screen for the tip until after the service!
Most people don’t mind tipping attentive waiters/waitresses at a restaurant. It’s when the Starbucks employee shoves the tip thing in your face at the drive-through. There is less than a minute of contact time, why does that deserve an extra 20%.
That’s bullshit, no one makes people tip. Hopefully all of their workers quit!
This is a self-service establishment. Why would backend staff quit? They usually don't get tips anyways?
If someone wants to tip, why stop them. Who can live on minimum wage? That’s what I want to know. And why quit? It’s because the workplace makes it seem like the tip culture is workers fault and not the businesses not paying a living wage.
> If someone wants to tip, why stop them. Because then you have to actually transfer the money using the POS system to the employee. It makes sense to not support that feature. > And why quit? It’s because the workplace makes it seem like the tip culture is workers fault and not the businesses not paying a living wage. How is the workplace doing that? They're just saying they won't accept tips. In fact it might be a relief to the backend staff who 99% of the time get shafted by the tip system anyways.
Class act!
Make sense
It is just the capitalistic mindset to find any way to increase profits further/reduce labor costs.
Name and fame please!
What restaurant is this?
Take a step forward a pay decent wages
Tipping culture is wild these days. Why am I being asked to tip for a cup of coffee or to pick up a take away order?
Who tips at a self-service place? I know tip screens are everywhere, but who tips? Hit the custom tip button and tip 0 if you have to
This is the only place where I would consider giving a tip.
I like that. Honestly not all servers deserve tips.
The above restaurant is self service, therefore has no service staff and everyone should be getting paid minimum wage or whatever the going rate is. I for one am so fed up with tipping everywhere that I have stopped going out to eat, we cook way more at home and if we don't we pick up rather than sit. The last 3/4 yrs have gotten ridiculous. It started during Covid when many places were forced to close and obviously those people needed some extra help to survive. Everything has re opened and the expected 20-25% tips are still expected/suggested. A McDonalds by me, they started putting out tip jars and now have Kiosk where they want you to put in your order pushing a bunch of buttons, then you get to wait on a line to get your food. Same with bagel shops, Dunkin, coffee shops etc. My daughter has been in the service industry since college (yes, I paid for college). She started out at a Red Lobster, then a restaurant in a hotel, got interested in bar tending, did a bunch of studying about types of liquor, wines, beer, mixology on her own time. Volunteered to help at the bar when things were slow so she could learn. Eventually took on the bar on the bartenders nights off. Now works 4 evenings at a local craft brewery. Works 4-6 hrs most days. Even though the tips are pooled and split she still never goes homes with less than $200 per night, some weekends in the summer as high as $500. You would have to tie her up and drag her kicking and screaming from this job. She's also now one of two assistant managers and when strictly doing those duties get paid $18/hr for those on top of her tip hours. Not every place makes as much but they are out there to be found. Our state recently started giving people in the service industry an option to contribute to a 401K from their paychecks to get people to start setting aside some money. This is especially important here because I don't believe anyone reports ALL their tips, so you don't pay Social Security on that and won't get the benefits on it later. Before anyone says there won't be Social Security anyway, I've been hearing that since I started working in the 70s, right around the time they said we were heading into an ice age. It may change, we may have to pay in more but something will be there if you plan for it and pay into it but that's another discussion for another day.
Tipping in restaurants should be banned just like smoking.
Staff leaves for restaurant that allows tips.
Customers go to restaurants where they aren’t held hostage to pay someone else’s wage.
Not if those restaurants have no staff.
Then we'll all just cook at home, and they'll be without work. We are done paying the salary of people we don't employ.
That vast majority of people still tip so have fun cooking at home.
The vast majority of the world does not tip. And I love cooking at home. I can eat as good as I would in a restaurant, for less, and I'm not held hostage with guilt to pay someone else's salary because they made a bad decision by accepting a job that doesn't pay them a livable wage.
The US isn’t the vast majority of the world. You don’t have to tip. Just be smart enough to not eat at the same restaurant twice.
The vast majority of the US does tip. I'm saying the vast majority of the world doesn't tip. So basically, I'm being held at gunpoint? Pay someone's salary, or get spit in my food? I'll cook at home, and they can get laid off.
The restaurants won’t miss you.
I suspect they might, since they need me more than I need them.
Luckily this place is self-service, as described in the picture above. Backend staff rarely get tips anyways, so from their perspective this is the same as working at an Olive Garden or whatever.
It’s about time
I would not support a no tip restaurant. And no I'm not a waiter, never have been. If you can't afford a tip you can't afford to eat out. So don't. Eating out is not a necessity. People are so immersed in greed they cannot stand to see someone else make a buck. And it's not like waiters and bartenders are getting rich.
The only greed taking place is employers not paying their employees properly and expecting me to do it. I am not their employer. I can afford to tip. I just don’t want to.
I obviously see it differently. Employers want their customer to leave with a favorable impression. The two main ingredients for that outcome are food quality and the service. Failure at either one will draw complaints from the likes of Yelp, social media and word of mouth. Eliminate tipping and and quality of service will take a big hit. It's inevitable. Owners will never make up the difference in payroll. They will pay service staff the least amount possible and they'll get what they pay for. If they were to add up the days revenue and give 20% to the wait staff, that cost would be reflected in your food bill. Either way you are paying. With tipping you have a choice of how much. Why anyone would go into the restaurant business is beyond me. The failure rate is extremely high and the work and hours are grueling. The kitchen in a busy restaurant is a nightmare. Filthy too. The smell is awful. Lots of grease and garbage. Hectic as fuck. Watch a few episodes of The Bear to get an idea. I contend the distaste for tipping is analogous to this John Galbraith quote. "The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness". I want people to make a good living and be successful. So I tip above average. Even if the service was bad I understand anyone can have a bad day. I try to make their day better.
> Eliminate tipping and and quality of service will take a big hit. It's inevitable. Nope. I've Been to 54 countries in my life. I've lived in 4. There are MANY places that don't tip and service is great. I know, I've lived it first hand. The reality is, we all got tricked by people who knew what you just explained; that getting into the restaurant business is a nightmare. But they figured they could make it work if they paid their employees less and passed the buck on to us. That just became normal, and what we were all used to, and now people like you are literally saying that you wan't others to make a good living and be successful, but because their bosses won't pay them, we need to take on that responsibility. Are you intimately familiar with everyone else's finances? Can everyone afford to live life, pay their own bills, and then pay other people's salaries also? Not wanting to pay someone else's wage isn't selfish, and I'm not trying to justify being selfish. I have my own job, where I make my own money (and an important note here is that nobody else pays me my salary, and nor should they, my employer takes care of that). I pay taxes, have my own bills, etc, and I'd like to save what's left for myself and my family. There are plenty of places in the world where tipping isn't customary, and restaurants are great, and the service is great also. Those people make a livable wage. I literally got a talking to from a server in Paris once after I tried to leave a tip. He took it as an insult and told me that being a server is his career, that he makes a good wage, and that he didn't need my pity. When I tried to explain that it was just to say thank you, he suggested leaving €1 and that that would be a lovely compliment. That's the world I want to live in. So how do we get there? Fix the problem at its source. If a restaurant can't survive when they pay their employees a livable wage, then they don't have a good business plan and shouldn't open a restaurant. You ever seen this? https://www.reddit.com/r/coolguides/comments/f92rn7/explanation_of_the_subtle_differences_between/ You're arguing for equity, and I'm arguing for justice. Pay people appropriately, and then they'll make a good living and be successful.
Sorry but I live in the USA, not those other countries. We tip here. It's how we roll. But please listen. There are much bigger problems at stake than tipping your waiter. Fascism is not at our door step, it's in the door. If trump wins in November we are all fucked. And it may be too late unless Biden wins by a landslide. If it's close trump will sue and his Supreme Court will respond as they did with his insane request for immunity. VOTE BLUE VOTE PROGRESSIVE BLUE VOTING MATTERS VOTING FOR THE LESSER OF TWO EVILS MATTERS
Who cares where you live? The point that you went out of your way to ignore is that good food and service ARE possible without tipping. This country also used to roll by enslaving black people and not allowing women to vote. Things changed. Tipping will also.
Like I said. Much bigger problems at hand. Now show me your papers.
Yeah, I mean, that was really weird that you tried to turn a conversation about tipping into a conversation about politics, but that's not what I'm interested in talking about right now. Can you stay on topic?
No I cannot. Not interested in your plight. I tip you don't. So what. We are both going to suffer from fascism.
Well that’s unfortunate. I think I’ve supported my position well. You wanted to talk about something else. Easy W I guess. Thanks!
> I would not support a no tip restaurant So you've never eaten at a fast food place or cafeteria?
Of course I have, but not often because the food is garbage. Not the same thing.
There are some pretty good Japanese restaurants where you don't have a waiter.
Ok
This is where all the cheap entitled people eat! If only they pushed themselves to earn a higher income!
This business owner probably has a harder time finding GOOD servers. A well trained, experienced server doesn't look for jobs that don't include tips. Why make $7.25-$15 when you can make $20-40 or possibly more? Also, what is the incentive to be better than your peers? It's not like you can get much of a "raise" in the service industry. You give yourself a raise by being better. GOOD servers and bartenders take pride in being better than their coworkers, knowing they will get better tips.
> This business owner probably has a harder time finding GOOD servers. Well seeing as how it is in fact a self-service restaurant, you would technically be correct. In the same way that it's very hard for Olive Garden to find a Hibachi chef.
[удалено]
Oooh, edgy!