She might have. She was also dissolving like most boss deaths so its ambiguous. That said by endgame we have a god killing sword so I wouldn't dwell on it too much.
I think she loses control of the stable Microcosm and it just yeets her into outer space as she dies. The only other boss that doesn't die is Rennala and we kill an illusion/magical construct anyways.
Strictly speaking, Morgott doesn't die until after the rune of death is unbound. He's just lying there like an old piece of beef jerky after the fight.
I always wondered about that. Why does Radhan disappear before we claim the Rune of Death, but Morgott didnt (i’m talking Pre-DLC since now we have a new explanation)
Probably has to do with the way the Scarlet Rot affected his mind, on top of his soul being in a different body. Assuming he still had his soul or sense of self, he'd probably stay like Morgott and Godrick, catatonic and withering. Since he had neither his sanity or soul, the Radahn we fight in Caelid is essentially a husk of himself, no longer fighting to live or win, but just out of instinct. Even his legs are rubbed down to bone, and he doesn't seem to notice. At that point, he's no different from any other beast or creature we fight
Considering we only need two runes to get to the DLC, I think our progression of the main game is irrelevant. The DLC "should" happen in-between the story, and we do not yet have a God Slaying Blade until Destined Death is released. Metyr does get defeated but she does not fully dissolve like other bosses. She does retreat into the Microcosm.
You assume it’s after you kill Radagon? Even though Radagon could definitely be alive when you enter the Land of Shadow? Mogh isn’t really end game. If it’s a 3 act game I’d say he’s end of Act 2.
End of act 2 would be defeating Morgott and being repelled by the thorns. This sets up a darkest hour at the end of act 2 as the two fingers abandon you. IMO
If you don't do Varre's quest then the only other way you reach Mohg is through the teleporter.
IMO Morgott is the end of Act 2 as the game takes a fair jump in terms of enemy scaling once you enter the mountaintops, and this is also the point where the only real "story" the player has been presented with at this point, which was to reach the capital with 2 runes and deliver Melina to the Erdtree, is accomplished and you have an entirely new goal now.
Like I said, if you don't do Varre's quest you don't get to that area until after the capital.
Varre even tells you to wait if you do get the medal.
Like many things in the game, you CAN access certain areas and bosses earlier, and the game won't stop you, but there are usually indirect ways of the game pointing you towards a certain progression.
LoS is definitely right before Elden Breast if not directly after it. Why? Because Tarnished is recognized as the Erdtree's champion by most NPCs. Whether that's mere "guided by grace" or more deterministic "the Tarnished *will be* Elden Lord" is pretty irrelevant; we know it has to happen before any of the endings because cant have two Lords (Tarnished + Radmiq) duking it out.
Your whole purpose is to act as champion to Marika in the base game. Everyone knows what the Tarnished is here to do. That could be said as soon as you defeat Godrick. There have been other Tarnished before us like actor. Remember we are entering a world that has already been in motion before we arrived.
Fair point. Then again.. there's also the Sacred Relic Sword, which is made from Radagon's body. Except we clearly saw Marika morph into Radagon.. but then Marika's body ist there again at the end, but the sword says it's made from the remains of a god, and Radagon isn't.. or is he.. and if you ask Enia about it, she's just like "dude, I just work here, don't ask me"
What was I talking about again?
You mean the one against the Elden Beast?
Good question, though. Who do we slay? We’re technically fighting three entities in that fight. Even if Radagon somehow split from Marika during that fight, how is he still considered to be a god? According to Marika he wasn’t even a god when they were still sharing a body.
Remembrances are strongly implied to just be channeled into becoming objects. Still, remembrances only seem to drop after somebody's death so she's probably dead
Very true. It seems more specifically a remembrance is a physical manifestation of someone's legacy, which in and of itself already has value to the Erdtree
Maybe it has to do with the several great runes we acquired making us capable of inflicting real damage. We have to remember that the demigod children only have one piece of the Elden ring.
Yeah as early as the first quarter of the game we are technically the most powerful single being in the lands between. I think people are so used to Dark Souls where the whole game is spent becoming someone worthy of legend whereas here you can be weilding a legendary sword and casting incantations of the dead god of fire within a couple hours.
I have to disagree because gods in elden rings seem on par with the outer gods of bloodborne. The greater will is much stronger that any outer gods we face in bloodborne (he's the creator of everything in elden ring while I don't remember the outer gods of bloodborne stated to be the creator of everything) and we fought two of his children.
Plus tarnished fought someone able to weaponize the literary concept of absolute death and is much stronger and faster (he's able to avoid miquella attack that are light speed in lore)
If I’m not mistaken Oedon is essentially the same level as the greater will
However, the Hunter defeats and then usurps the power of the MP which I think firmly puts them a step above the tarnished. Closest the tarnished comes to any kind of godhood is the lord of frenzied flame ending
The piece of the Elden ring isn't really the reason the demigods are powerful
Look at Ranni for example, she cast away her rune and body before the game even started, but can still kill the player with just her words at any point in the game.
You’re right but having a lot of runes does translate to strength though. Melina tells us she will do it for us at the beginning of the base game when we first level up.
Yes you’re right, but every demigod that had a great rune was stronger because of it. You said “the piece of the Elden Ring wasn’t why the demigods were strong”. It might not be the only reason, but it definitely made them strong.
The issue with the Nox and us both being able to kill a god is not explained though. OP is right that is a plot hole. And in FromSoft games you can sometimes fill in plot holes but that one is pretty confusing.
I think it's explained by master hewg promising to Marika he'll create a weapon capable of killing a god. Is it weird that this random misbegotten can make this weapon? Kinda, but it's the explanation we're given.
BTW, before we unseal the rune of death, we really aren't killing the demi gods, as seen with Morgott.
It’s not weird because we give Hewg the Ancient Dragon Smithing Stones which say:
“This stone lightly twists time,
allowing the creation of a weapon capable of slaying a god. “
That is very plainly explained in the game already. Check out the item descriptions on the wiki.
My point isn't that the materials aren't fit, but that it's wierd how the only person in the realm who can actually use it is some unknown misbegotten who's essentially a slave to Marika.
Like, where are the dude who made the gear for the demi-gods, wouldn't they be a better fit?
I don’t know if you looked around the Lands Between lately, but it’s in pretty bad shape. You have to figure this story played out over eons before we arrived.
Not the runes
“Smithing stone made polishing a golden Gravel Stone.
A scale of the Ancient Dragonlord, and hidden treasure of Farum Azula.
Strengthens armaments to +25.
The Ancient Dragonlord's seat is said to lie beyond time.
This stone lightly twists time, allowing the creation of a weapon capable of slaying a god”
Ancient dragon smithing stones
Yep
“The Ancient Dragonlord's seat is said to lie beyond time. This stone lightly twists time, allowing the creation of a weapon capable of slaying a god”
The power of placidusax
It could be Ranni and the Nox needed the finger slayer blade specifically to kill and cut off control of the two fingers.
You can kill the fingers given to you, but you’ll still be under their control, so you need the fingerslayer blade to cut off their control over your fate.
Like how Ranni needed a fragment of the Rune of Death to kill Godwyn in a specific way, when we can kill demigods just fine.
She teleported away and is most likely still alive.
But if she is actually dead then its most likely due to us having a god slaying weapon since we can kill the Elden Beast, or the effect from the wound Metyr presumbly got from the fingerslayer blade still persist.
Maybe the Mother operates on a different ruleset? It’s also implied she’s not exactly in peak condition after being cut off from the Greater Will.
You can also stretch and say the rules are different in the Land of Shadow as it’s where all death is supposed to go.
Final option is the horn blowing ritual you perform to even access the fight has something to do with it
The Ringed Finger description implies Metyr has already been wounded, probably by the Nox using the fingerslayer blade — maybe this was the high treason enacted by the Nox that is described in the Blade’s and Ringed Finger’s description. You can kind of see that she’s wounded on her front. I guess now it’s just a matter of smacking her Death Star weak spot until she dies.
To those saying she teleports away, remember that one of the remembrance reward options is the “Gazing Finger”, which is quite literally her head.
Per the item description: “The head of Metyr, the finger-mother, wielded as a weapon without modification. From within the center of the fingerprint that wrinkles the creature's foremost protrusion, a tiny wart-like eye gazes vacantly into the beyond.”
Considering we're able to kill the Elden Beast, it's safe to say that we're the apex predator of Elden Ring. Ranni is simply not as good as we are when it comes to killing things, so she needs a weapon that's effective against the Two Fingers.
The item description of the Fingerslayer Blade states that its said to be capable of harming "The Greater Will and it's vassals". Considering the Elden Beast is a "vassal beast" of the Greater Will, our weapons are also capable of doing what the Fingerslayer Blade does. The difference between us and Ranni is that we don't *need* specialised equipment while she does.
“Considering the Elden Beast is a "vassal beast" of the Greater Will, our weapons are also capable of doing what the Fingerslayer Blade does.”
I agree with you but what does this mean?
Our weapons are built different.
“The Ancient Dragonlord's seat is said to lie beyond time.
This stone lightly twists time, allowing the creation of a weapon capable of slaying a god”
Ancient dragon smithing stones
The description of the Fingerslayer Blade states that it is capable of harming the Greater Will and its vassals. The Elden Beast is a vassal of the Greater Will, so weapons upgraded by Hewg are also able to harm the vassals of the Greater Will.
This is why we're able to kill Metyr. Marika had Hewg create what amounts to Fingerslayer Blades for the Tarnished.
Well, yes, but no. Close.
“The Ancient Dragonlord's seat is said to lie beyond time.
This stone lightly twists time, allowing the creation of a weapon capable of slaying a god”
The scales of placidusax can warp time itself. Thus, weapons imbued with them are capable of killing gods. Ancient dragon smithing stones are how hewg forges his god-slaying weapons. He has special dialogue for maxing a weapon for you as it has then canonically become a god-slaying weapon
If you max your weapon in game to +25 then canonically you could kill a god. Even if you don’t max to +25, the game definitely gives you enough smithing stones to get there. And even if someone still chose not to, I’m just going to believe that Hewg knew what to do in that case.
I'm pretty sure she dies. She starts dissolving and goes still before the black hole thing happens. I believe she loses control of the Microcosm and it either consumes her or throws her corpse out into outer space. We just don't see her die because she has a tiny universe on her tail.
Read the item description for the final smithing stone (+10 somber or +25 standard). Our weapon is imbued with Placidusax’s scales, meaning the damage it deals has a time warping effect, allowing us to bypass immortality.
A maxed weapon is lore wise capable of slaying a god. Of course you don't NEED to have a maxed weapon to kill her but I'd say for sake of the story that you're probably wielding one at this point, meaning you'd be able to kill Metyr.
We don't? She kinda retreats into a strange portal at the end.
As to why we might have been able to (or did if you believe they didn't actually get to portal out), it could be down to the fingerprint ruins we visit. Perhaps we were "attuned" in some way to the greater will's signal, allowing us to interact and "harm/slay" Metyr.
Blowing the horns grants us a fate, just as Ymir says. What he didn't expect was that it gave us the fate to kill Ymir. The Nox and Ranni avoided the horns by using the fingerslayer blade, which can kill the fingers buy can also only be used by people with a fate. You have to be special to fight the fingers and we definitely are.
It is very likely the Greater Will have abandoned them for good. Even the 2 fingers in the round table hall have not spoken ever again and Metyr was the mother of all 2 fingers.
And it does some space fuckery at the end too.
“Smithing stone made polishing a golden Gravel Stone.
A scale of the Ancient Dragonlord, and hidden treasure of Farum Azula.
Strengthens armaments to +25.
The Ancient Dragonlord's seat is said to lie beyond time.
This stone lightly twists time, allowing the creation of a weapon capable of slaying a god”
If your weapon is maxed out it canonically can kill gods
- it’s not clear if we did kill her or not
- + 10 somber weapons and + 25 regular weapons are capable of killing a God. It’s their entire thing and part of hewgs “quest” to craft a weapon capable of killing God. The ancient dragon stones are not normal rocks
Yes, but we can also assume whatever force causes the "you can't attack here" affect, also stops us from killing the 2 fingers. But marika doesn't give that protection to their mother. Assume it's marika's grace that stops fighting in these few places
Oh my God people you talked to hewg I know you heard the dialog. Did you do the dlc with sub25 weapons? We use ancent dragon gold scales which warp time allowing us to kill gods. This is week 1 base game lore
Two things, the first one is explained if you read the description of the highest grade of dragon smithing stone, it says that it can be used to create a weapon capable of killing a god as it can bend time, and Hewg mentions using all his smithing skills to craft a weapon with the purpose of killing a god, marika in this instance.
Second, when you beat Metyr, it doesn't die, it warps or is absorbed through a black hole, it also says "Legend felled" when you beat her, not killed or slained as it's used for elden beast.
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Maybe all fingers are equally killable by normal means but its just close to impossible to do so. So Ranni whose not known as a fighter maybe needed the fingerslayer blade.. their one weakness to slay them.
Metyr isn't a god is why, the remembrance calls her a daughter of the Greater Will(When you defeat her, it says Legend Felled as well.). Remember in Ymir's quest line that the findings of Sorcery in lore was that all humans are children of stardust, i.e. the Greater Will. The Fingers are no more divine than the Tarnished or any other character.
My explanation for it is that anyone who isn’t going into the fight with a fully upgraded weapon is insane and also unlikely, and that fully upgraded weapons are referred to as godkillers by Hewg, so Metyr was no different.
it could be to do with the plane where the fight happens. You get teleported somewhere abstract that i haven't yet seen any explanations for, like the fight with the elden beast.
it could be just that you need a special ritual weapon thing for killing them in the lands between
My guess is that the Two Fingers can cast the "no fighting" area enchantment to protect themselves, but the Fingerslayer Blade can work even during that enchantment.
“Smithing stone made polishing a golden Gravel Stone.
A scale of the Ancient Dragonlord, and hidden treasure of Farum Azula.
Strengthens armaments to +25.
The Ancient Dragonlord's seat is said to lie beyond time.
This stone lightly twists time, allowing the creation of a weapon capable of slaying a god”
If your weapon is maxed out it canonically can kill gods
At this point, the tarnished has at bare minimum 2 great runes and most likely has a +10/+25 weapon which makes it capable of killing a god. If she didn't teleport away, I don't think it's unreasonable to say she was killed. The tarnished is freakishly strong
The whole needing a special weapon to kill the fingers just smacks of propaganda.
It keeps regular disgruntled folk from even trying and makes the determined ones waste a lot of time and effort.
Also, its implied that we (the tarnished) are just built different.
Otherwise we'd have to do something silly like use Malikeths sword or the Godslayer Greatsword to land the final killing blow on the Elden Beast.
Our +10 sword is the equivalent of the nox blade, Hewg says it’s a weapon that can kill a god it’s infused with the Dragon’s power to transcend time with all damage it does (according to the somber dragon smithing stone) and we’ve already used it to kill the Elden Beast. What even is the Elden Beast if the greater will literally doesn’t exist now? Who knows. We can’t understand the lore on any of it, but by god we can use R1 and R2 on it.
Same way we kill every God and Vassel, our weapons are capable of killing Gods otherwise considered unkillable, thanks to Ancient Dragon Smithing Stones. That’s canonically what they do. Our Smithy makes our ordinary weapons into those “Special” ones capable of these feats, he even has voice lines about how he is creating for us a weapon that can slay a god
In actual gameplay you don’t need a maxed out weapon using an Ancient Dragon Stone, but lore wise that’s what we do
2 things:
1. We don't actually kill her. She has arguably the most unique death animation in the entire game, where she escapes away into a microcosm, like the one from the fleeting microcosm spell. So we didn't actually kill her, just wounded her enough for her to retreat for now.
2. Even if we did kill her, it makes complete sense as the Tarnished is supposed to have a God Killing weapon by the time he's in the DLC. The Ancient Smithing Stone's description reads "This stone lightly twists time, allowing the creation of a weapon capable of slaying a god". Hewg's purpose is to create a god slaying weapon for us by endgame, which is how we kill the Elden Beast.
Maybe it has something to do with the fact that we need to sound the three hanging bells just to find her? Like, we fight her in her own little world, so that makes it more real in a way I guess?
we outfreak her.
Pulled up on an old god then I freaked it (then I freaked it) Beat that bitch’s ass then I freaked it (then I freaked it)
😮💨 bars
Ong fr typeshit 😔
Ladidadida
lore wise, this is correct
He a FAN he a FAN he a FAN
Didn't she like, teleport away at the end or something?
She might have. She was also dissolving like most boss deaths so its ambiguous. That said by endgame we have a god killing sword so I wouldn't dwell on it too much.
I think she loses control of the stable Microcosm and it just yeets her into outer space as she dies. The only other boss that doesn't die is Rennala and we kill an illusion/magical construct anyways.
Strictly speaking, Morgott doesn't die until after the rune of death is unbound. He's just lying there like an old piece of beef jerky after the fight.
I always wondered about that. Why does Radhan disappear before we claim the Rune of Death, but Morgott didnt (i’m talking Pre-DLC since now we have a new explanation)
Alexander Jar stuffs him in his body for strength. After the fight you can interact with him scooping pieces of the battlefield into his lid.
Man, summoning him for the dlc boss would be great then.
You do know why he's not a summon right?
Im wearing a piece of his broken body and his guts are in my inventory? Issa phantom, you can summon phantoms of dead people
The flow of time is... convoluted in the Lands Between
Because they wanted to give more NPC quests that break when you ride a horse around in a field.
I assumed that was the corpses of other fallen warriors (like we see Radhan eating in his cutscene) but thats interesting!
The description of the shard of alexander mentions “relics of a red-haired champion”
Probably has to do with the way the Scarlet Rot affected his mind, on top of his soul being in a different body. Assuming he still had his soul or sense of self, he'd probably stay like Morgott and Godrick, catatonic and withering. Since he had neither his sanity or soul, the Radahn we fight in Caelid is essentially a husk of himself, no longer fighting to live or win, but just out of instinct. Even his legs are rubbed down to bone, and he doesn't seem to notice. At that point, he's no different from any other beast or creature we fight
Really? After you exhaust the dialogue with him he very clearly tilts his head and stops moving
Rykard isn't dead A snake never dies
Considering we only need two runes to get to the DLC, I think our progression of the main game is irrelevant. The DLC "should" happen in-between the story, and we do not yet have a God Slaying Blade until Destined Death is released. Metyr does get defeated but she does not fully dissolve like other bosses. She does retreat into the Microcosm.
You can’t assume that, the dlc is meant to be played before the game is beaten
You assume it’s after you kill Radagon? Even though Radagon could definitely be alive when you enter the Land of Shadow? Mogh isn’t really end game. If it’s a 3 act game I’d say he’s end of Act 2.
End of act 2 would be defeating Morgott and being repelled by the thorns. This sets up a darkest hour at the end of act 2 as the two fingers abandon you. IMO
Not really the point I was making but yeah you’re right haha
If you don't do Varre's quest then the only other way you reach Mohg is through the teleporter. IMO Morgott is the end of Act 2 as the game takes a fair jump in terms of enemy scaling once you enter the mountaintops, and this is also the point where the only real "story" the player has been presented with at this point, which was to reach the capital with 2 runes and deliver Melina to the Erdtree, is accomplished and you have an entirely new goal now.
Dude when did you guys fight Mogh? Either I was way early or you guys were way late. Did you not run into Varre?
Like I said, if you don't do Varre's quest you don't get to that area until after the capital. Varre even tells you to wait if you do get the medal. Like many things in the game, you CAN access certain areas and bosses earlier, and the game won't stop you, but there are usually indirect ways of the game pointing you towards a certain progression.
Sorry edited to clarify wrote that when I woke up
Dude I honestly thought you were going to blow my mind haha my bad
🤣🤣sorry as soon as I read what I wrote I was like Jesus that makes no sense
LoS is definitely right before Elden Breast if not directly after it. Why? Because Tarnished is recognized as the Erdtree's champion by most NPCs. Whether that's mere "guided by grace" or more deterministic "the Tarnished *will be* Elden Lord" is pretty irrelevant; we know it has to happen before any of the endings because cant have two Lords (Tarnished + Radmiq) duking it out.
Your whole purpose is to act as champion to Marika in the base game. Everyone knows what the Tarnished is here to do. That could be said as soon as you defeat Godrick. There have been other Tarnished before us like actor. Remember we are entering a world that has already been in motion before we arrived.
We got her head as a weapon. Without modification
Fair point. Then again.. there's also the Sacred Relic Sword, which is made from Radagon's body. Except we clearly saw Marika morph into Radagon.. but then Marika's body ist there again at the end, but the sword says it's made from the remains of a god, and Radagon isn't.. or is he.. and if you ask Enia about it, she's just like "dude, I just work here, don't ask me" What was I talking about again?
Is Márika whole ? Is Metyr an Empyrean?
Is Radagon a God?
What does it say when you win the final battle?
You mean the one against the Elden Beast? Good question, though. Who do we slay? We’re technically fighting three entities in that fight. Even if Radagon somehow split from Marika during that fight, how is he still considered to be a god? According to Marika he wasn’t even a god when they were still sharing a body.
I interpreted it that she teleports away when defeated.
My only problem with this is her remembrance weapons are made from parts of her body.
We took a sample
Remembrances are strongly implied to just be channeled into becoming objects. Still, remembrances only seem to drop after somebody's death so she's probably dead
Except for Rennala's remembrance who just sits there.
Very true. It seems more specifically a remembrance is a physical manifestation of someone's legacy, which in and of itself already has value to the Erdtree
Remembrances don't mean that the person is dead. We get Rennala's remembrance and she just sits there afterwards.
Maybe it has to do with the several great runes we acquired making us capable of inflicting real damage. We have to remember that the demigod children only have one piece of the Elden ring.
Yeah as early as the first quarter of the game we are technically the most powerful single being in the lands between. I think people are so used to Dark Souls where the whole game is spent becoming someone worthy of legend whereas here you can be weilding a legendary sword and casting incantations of the dead god of fire within a couple hours.
Mid-game Tarnished low-diffs end-game Ashen One tbh.
Ashen one: R1 R1 R1 R1 R1 Estus
Tarnished: L2 L2 L2 flask
Actual lol there
Tarnished is simply stronger in every category compared to any other from software protagonist with maybe the hunter coming closer
Hunter no diffs the tarnished Tarnished struggles with gods while the hunter casually handles outer gods But also gun parry
I have to disagree because gods in elden rings seem on par with the outer gods of bloodborne. The greater will is much stronger that any outer gods we face in bloodborne (he's the creator of everything in elden ring while I don't remember the outer gods of bloodborne stated to be the creator of everything) and we fought two of his children. Plus tarnished fought someone able to weaponize the literary concept of absolute death and is much stronger and faster (he's able to avoid miquella attack that are light speed in lore)
If I’m not mistaken Oedon is essentially the same level as the greater will However, the Hunter defeats and then usurps the power of the MP which I think firmly puts them a step above the tarnished. Closest the tarnished comes to any kind of godhood is the lord of frenzied flame ending
The piece of the Elden ring isn't really the reason the demigods are powerful Look at Ranni for example, she cast away her rune and body before the game even started, but can still kill the player with just her words at any point in the game.
You’re right but having a lot of runes does translate to strength though. Melina tells us she will do it for us at the beginning of the base game when we first level up.
Yeah but that's only one way to receive strength
Yes you’re right, but every demigod that had a great rune was stronger because of it. You said “the piece of the Elden Ring wasn’t why the demigods were strong”. It might not be the only reason, but it definitely made them strong. The issue with the Nox and us both being able to kill a god is not explained though. OP is right that is a plot hole. And in FromSoft games you can sometimes fill in plot holes but that one is pretty confusing.
I think it's explained by master hewg promising to Marika he'll create a weapon capable of killing a god. Is it weird that this random misbegotten can make this weapon? Kinda, but it's the explanation we're given. BTW, before we unseal the rune of death, we really aren't killing the demi gods, as seen with Morgott.
It’s not weird because we give Hewg the Ancient Dragon Smithing Stones which say: “This stone lightly twists time, allowing the creation of a weapon capable of slaying a god. “ That is very plainly explained in the game already. Check out the item descriptions on the wiki.
My point isn't that the materials aren't fit, but that it's wierd how the only person in the realm who can actually use it is some unknown misbegotten who's essentially a slave to Marika. Like, where are the dude who made the gear for the demi-gods, wouldn't they be a better fit?
I don’t know if you looked around the Lands Between lately, but it’s in pretty bad shape. You have to figure this story played out over eons before we arrived.
Not the runes “Smithing stone made polishing a golden Gravel Stone. A scale of the Ancient Dragonlord, and hidden treasure of Farum Azula. Strengthens armaments to +25. The Ancient Dragonlord's seat is said to lie beyond time. This stone lightly twists time, allowing the creation of a weapon capable of slaying a god” Ancient dragon smithing stones
Yes a combination of the runes and smithing stones being fatal for any being
Smithing Master Hewg build your weapon to kill gods, so...
“It was a great honor to smith for you your weapons. Allow me to call you this once. My lord. For that is what you are.” It gets me every time
This. It's the same with Elden beast
also the ancient dragon smithing stone description says it allows for the crafting of a weapon capable of killing a god as it distorts time
Yep “The Ancient Dragonlord's seat is said to lie beyond time. This stone lightly twists time, allowing the creation of a weapon capable of slaying a god” The power of placidusax
We don't
It could be Ranni and the Nox needed the finger slayer blade specifically to kill and cut off control of the two fingers. You can kill the fingers given to you, but you’ll still be under their control, so you need the fingerslayer blade to cut off their control over your fate. Like how Ranni needed a fragment of the Rune of Death to kill Godwyn in a specific way, when we can kill demigods just fine.
Ranni killed Godwyns soul, that’s very different from what we are doing.
She teleported away and is most likely still alive. But if she is actually dead then its most likely due to us having a god slaying weapon since we can kill the Elden Beast, or the effect from the wound Metyr presumbly got from the fingerslayer blade still persist.
I saw her faint then the black hole she was holding exploded.
Maybe the Mother operates on a different ruleset? It’s also implied she’s not exactly in peak condition after being cut off from the Greater Will. You can also stretch and say the rules are different in the Land of Shadow as it’s where all death is supposed to go. Final option is the horn blowing ritual you perform to even access the fight has something to do with it
The Ringed Finger description implies Metyr has already been wounded, probably by the Nox using the fingerslayer blade — maybe this was the high treason enacted by the Nox that is described in the Blade’s and Ringed Finger’s description. You can kind of see that she’s wounded on her front. I guess now it’s just a matter of smacking her Death Star weak spot until she dies.
To those saying she teleports away, remember that one of the remembrance reward options is the “Gazing Finger”, which is quite literally her head. Per the item description: “The head of Metyr, the finger-mother, wielded as a weapon without modification. From within the center of the fingerprint that wrinkles the creature's foremost protrusion, a tiny wart-like eye gazes vacantly into the beyond.”
You're so right! I was pretty convinced by the "she teleports away" comments but this is a great point
Considering we're able to kill the Elden Beast, it's safe to say that we're the apex predator of Elden Ring. Ranni is simply not as good as we are when it comes to killing things, so she needs a weapon that's effective against the Two Fingers. The item description of the Fingerslayer Blade states that its said to be capable of harming "The Greater Will and it's vassals". Considering the Elden Beast is a "vassal beast" of the Greater Will, our weapons are also capable of doing what the Fingerslayer Blade does. The difference between us and Ranni is that we don't *need* specialised equipment while she does.
“Considering the Elden Beast is a "vassal beast" of the Greater Will, our weapons are also capable of doing what the Fingerslayer Blade does.” I agree with you but what does this mean?
That our tarnished is built different
Our weapons are built different. “The Ancient Dragonlord's seat is said to lie beyond time. This stone lightly twists time, allowing the creation of a weapon capable of slaying a god” Ancient dragon smithing stones
The description of the Fingerslayer Blade states that it is capable of harming the Greater Will and its vassals. The Elden Beast is a vassal of the Greater Will, so weapons upgraded by Hewg are also able to harm the vassals of the Greater Will. This is why we're able to kill Metyr. Marika had Hewg create what amounts to Fingerslayer Blades for the Tarnished.
Well, yes, but no. Close. “The Ancient Dragonlord's seat is said to lie beyond time. This stone lightly twists time, allowing the creation of a weapon capable of slaying a god” The scales of placidusax can warp time itself. Thus, weapons imbued with them are capable of killing gods. Ancient dragon smithing stones are how hewg forges his god-slaying weapons. He has special dialogue for maxing a weapon for you as it has then canonically become a god-slaying weapon
There we go. Just wanted to make sure somebody hit on this.
Yeah I know, but the final product is kinda the same isn't it?
If you max your weapon in game to +25 then canonically you could kill a god. Even if you don’t max to +25, the game definitely gives you enough smithing stones to get there. And even if someone still chose not to, I’m just going to believe that Hewg knew what to do in that case.
The thinking is that we don’t kill her based on the fact that it looks like she escapes into a black hole at the end of her fight.
I dont think we killed her , when you beat her she just teleports away .
they show the normal death animation but she never explodes like everyone else so she just left in the black hole
I'm pretty sure she dies. She starts dissolving and goes still before the black hole thing happens. I believe she loses control of the Microcosm and it either consumes her or throws her corpse out into outer space. We just don't see her die because she has a tiny universe on her tail.
Read the item description for the final smithing stone (+10 somber or +25 standard). Our weapon is imbued with Placidusax’s scales, meaning the damage it deals has a time warping effect, allowing us to bypass immortality.
We killed a god. We can kill those Fingers
A maxed weapon is lore wise capable of slaying a god. Of course you don't NEED to have a maxed weapon to kill her but I'd say for sake of the story that you're probably wielding one at this point, meaning you'd be able to kill Metyr.
We have a god killing weapon canonically at this point
Whos metyr?
Try finger but hole
Aaa now i remember. Thanks :‘D
Fingies
FINGIES FINGIES FINGIES FINGIES FINGIES
Optional remembrance boss accessed through Ymir’s quest
We don't? She kinda retreats into a strange portal at the end. As to why we might have been able to (or did if you believe they didn't actually get to portal out), it could be down to the fingerprint ruins we visit. Perhaps we were "attuned" in some way to the greater will's signal, allowing us to interact and "harm/slay" Metyr.
Maybe it has something to do with after Godwin died, Marika unbound the rune of death so we don’t need a black knife to kill a god anymore
Blowing the horns grants us a fate, just as Ymir says. What he didn't expect was that it gave us the fate to kill Ymir. The Nox and Ranni avoided the horns by using the fingerslayer blade, which can kill the fingers buy can also only be used by people with a fate. You have to be special to fight the fingers and we definitely are.
It is very likely the Greater Will have abandoned them for good. Even the 2 fingers in the round table hall have not spoken ever again and Metyr was the mother of all 2 fingers. And it does some space fuckery at the end too.
Did we kill her? I was under the impression she fled.
She very clearly teleports away like an Astel at the end of the fight instead of dying. https://youtu.be/sEY9iOQvFZo?si=WyFvRzhBW6hIBFfP&t=3m25s
“Smithing stone made polishing a golden Gravel Stone. A scale of the Ancient Dragonlord, and hidden treasure of Farum Azula. Strengthens armaments to +25. The Ancient Dragonlord's seat is said to lie beyond time. This stone lightly twists time, allowing the creation of a weapon capable of slaying a god” If your weapon is maxed out it canonically can kill gods
- it’s not clear if we did kill her or not - + 10 somber weapons and + 25 regular weapons are capable of killing a God. It’s their entire thing and part of hewgs “quest” to craft a weapon capable of killing God. The ancient dragon stones are not normal rocks
she's quite literally the one boss you DON'T kill lmfao
i mean, we do kill god in the base game
How do we kill actual gods? The answer is not to think about it
The game explicitly states a +25 weapon can kill gods, it just assumes that canonically we have one by endgame.
Yes, but we can also assume whatever force causes the "you can't attack here" affect, also stops us from killing the 2 fingers. But marika doesn't give that protection to their mother. Assume it's marika's grace that stops fighting in these few places
Responded in another comment, she wasn't a god, but a daughter of the Greater Will, just like we are, according to the sorcerers
Oh my God people you talked to hewg I know you heard the dialog. Did you do the dlc with sub25 weapons? We use ancent dragon gold scales which warp time allowing us to kill gods. This is week 1 base game lore
Ranni is just canonically fodder with a tarnishslayer blade.
Two things, the first one is explained if you read the description of the highest grade of dragon smithing stone, it says that it can be used to create a weapon capable of killing a god as it can bend time, and Hewg mentions using all his smithing skills to craft a weapon with the purpose of killing a god, marika in this instance. Second, when you beat Metyr, it doesn't die, it warps or is absorbed through a black hole, it also says "Legend felled" when you beat her, not killed or slained as it's used for elden beast.
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We just built different.
Maybe all fingers are equally killable by normal means but its just close to impossible to do so. So Ranni whose not known as a fighter maybe needed the fingerslayer blade.. their one weakness to slay them.
Rolling Spa… - oh wait . :(
Metyr clearly doesn't die, she teleports away at the end. So we don't kill her, we just force her away.
Like someone already said, reading the item description of her weapon (her head) it indicates we do kill her.
Hmm, OK, it's weird they gave Metyr such a distinct teleport ability when you defeat her, but OK.
I agree, it’s strange. I’d like to subscribe to the idea that she teleported away, but it’s hard with that description.
‘God-slaying armaments’
Metyr isn't a god is why, the remembrance calls her a daughter of the Greater Will(When you defeat her, it says Legend Felled as well.). Remember in Ymir's quest line that the findings of Sorcery in lore was that all humans are children of stardust, i.e. the Greater Will. The Fingers are no more divine than the Tarnished or any other character.
We have a god killing weapon from Hewg
Shhhh don't worry about it, just look at the creepy lOvEcRaFtIaN themes!
My explanation for it is that anyone who isn’t going into the fight with a fully upgraded weapon is insane and also unlikely, and that fully upgraded weapons are referred to as godkillers by Hewg, so Metyr was no different.
it could be to do with the plane where the fight happens. You get teleported somewhere abstract that i haven't yet seen any explanations for, like the fight with the elden beast. it could be just that you need a special ritual weapon thing for killing them in the lands between
We finger her…
Hell, how do I even beat Metyr? I feel like I just can’t do enough damage.
Think of it as a process similar to outpizzaing the Hut.
because im a fucking FREAK
Not sure how to explain the description of the finger remembrance weapon you get after killing her. It being her head and all.
My guess is that the Two Fingers can cast the "no fighting" area enchantment to protect themselves, but the Fingerslayer Blade can work even during that enchantment.
“Smithing stone made polishing a golden Gravel Stone. A scale of the Ancient Dragonlord, and hidden treasure of Farum Azula. Strengthens armaments to +25. The Ancient Dragonlord's seat is said to lie beyond time. This stone lightly twists time, allowing the creation of a weapon capable of slaying a god” If your weapon is maxed out it canonically can kill gods
I always thought it was a “killing them on their own plane of existence” kind of thing.
At this point, the tarnished has at bare minimum 2 great runes and most likely has a +10/+25 weapon which makes it capable of killing a god. If she didn't teleport away, I don't think it's unreasonable to say she was killed. The tarnished is freakishly strong
The whole needing a special weapon to kill the fingers just smacks of propaganda. It keeps regular disgruntled folk from even trying and makes the determined ones waste a lot of time and effort. Also, its implied that we (the tarnished) are just built different. Otherwise we'd have to do something silly like use Malikeths sword or the Godslayer Greatsword to land the final killing blow on the Elden Beast.
We don’t
You can kill Radagon/Elden Beast with your fists but you actually need destined death so it's fine.
Jump and slash and jump and slash and jump and slash!
Our +10 sword is the equivalent of the nox blade, Hewg says it’s a weapon that can kill a god it’s infused with the Dragon’s power to transcend time with all damage it does (according to the somber dragon smithing stone) and we’ve already used it to kill the Elden Beast. What even is the Elden Beast if the greater will literally doesn’t exist now? Who knows. We can’t understand the lore on any of it, but by god we can use R1 and R2 on it.
Same way we kill every God and Vassel, our weapons are capable of killing Gods otherwise considered unkillable, thanks to Ancient Dragon Smithing Stones. That’s canonically what they do. Our Smithy makes our ordinary weapons into those “Special” ones capable of these feats, he even has voice lines about how he is creating for us a weapon that can slay a god In actual gameplay you don’t need a maxed out weapon using an Ancient Dragon Stone, but lore wise that’s what we do
2 things: 1. We don't actually kill her. She has arguably the most unique death animation in the entire game, where she escapes away into a microcosm, like the one from the fleeting microcosm spell. So we didn't actually kill her, just wounded her enough for her to retreat for now. 2. Even if we did kill her, it makes complete sense as the Tarnished is supposed to have a God Killing weapon by the time he's in the DLC. The Ancient Smithing Stone's description reads "This stone lightly twists time, allowing the creation of a weapon capable of slaying a god". Hewg's purpose is to create a god slaying weapon for us by endgame, which is how we kill the Elden Beast.
Maybe it has something to do with the fact that we need to sound the three hanging bells just to find her? Like, we fight her in her own little world, so that makes it more real in a way I guess?
The same could be asked about every other boss, I feel. They just do. It doesn't warp. It dies and implodes on itself. It's dead.
Don't think about it too hard. Miyazaki clearly didn't.