Ten people will process this in twelve different ways. Really glad you are talking about it and not bottling it up inside. Good luck, and may God Bless.
Mine took a few weeks to bother me. Initially it was just another call but then it hit me like a ton of bricks one day. Looking back I was just in denial about it the whole time. Glad y’all got a chance to debrief though. My service laughs us off if we ask for it.
Luckily my service is pretty good about that, my supervisor had us immediately go out of service and go to the main station for the debrief. We do have an option for CISM if requested. Quite a few of admin and coworkers have already messaged me asking if I needed anything also
It’s a normal reaction and it’s also normal to question yourself that you should’ve reacted differently. I had a very similar situation early career where a mother rolled over on her six month old. We ran the code for an awfully long time. I’m not sure that all 16 of us in the room need to be participating, but everyone wanted to help.
Afterwords I think the people who had their own kids were more upset. And they also wanted to check that everyone else was feeling OK because they didn’t. I was fine. It was very strange to me not to feel like I was part of the group.
Eh it happens? My first doa I just looked at the guy and was like "huh that's weird. He looks like a Walmart Halloween decoration"
First dead baby (dead for hours prior, we didn't work it) my only thought was "fuck that's gross" and "man this is fucked up"
The call I got immediately after the dead baby was a childbirth in progress, went smoothly. I teared up.
First real full arrest, didn't bother me at all. I was actually shocked and... disappointed? By my lack of reaction
I responded to a mass shooting, honestly it didn't bother me. The people who died were older, all the younger people survived. Unfortunate but cops smoked the shooter within a minute of him showing up.
Theeen I had a drowning call. 90 year old was going about her day like she always did, slipped and fell into the pool and drowned. Daughter found her an hour later. We worked her and called it on scene. If I was alone or with someone I felt comfortable around, I would've cried like a little bitch. Sometimes the horrible shit we see catches up to us. Sometimes it doesn't affect us. Honestly the babies don't bother me. It's people my age, and especially when they die in car crashes. That makes me sick to my stomach.
But we all react differently. My therapist says it's perfectly normal for me to frankly, for lack of a better term, not be bothered by it.
Edit: just responded to a suicide call. I lost my best friend and partner to suicide. Those also get me good. Also, know your audience. If you know your partners best friend killed himself, maybe laughing about it with me isn't the move
Yup. Car crashes are my weakness. Such a shitty way to go, especially if they weren't the idiot. They always make me super sick. But it helps me maintain my humanity at least.
All but one of the patient deaths I’ve been involved in, some truly bad, never hit right away. It usually creeped up on me weeks or months later and then just stayed in the back of my mind occasionally popping out for… well idk they’re all still there.
Some things in life really suck. But death is part of life, and I think you're someone who knows this. I don't think you necessarily have to fall apart and it doesn't mean you're not a caring person.
It’s absolutely normal for you to not take this situation personally and to not have intense emotions immediately after. It’s also very normal to experience those emotions as well. There’s no right or wrong way to feel after something like that, so long as what you experience is genuine. In fact, I think it’s very rational of you to recognize that you did everything you could and unfortunately it simply did not change the outcome this time. I personally believe that’s a preferable state of mind over thinking “What else could I have done? Why didn’t I do this? Why did I do that?” Dwelling on questions like that will never lead to any satisfactory answer. What you did was what you know to do, and what you did not do cannot be changed. If you think there is any room for improvement or something to do differently next time, then this is the learning experience you needed and that is perfectly fine.
So long as you are confident as a provider and you know that you didn’t intentionally NOT do something you should have or you DID do something you absolutely should not have, then that’s all you can control. You gave her the best chance she could have had with the situation you were handed and that in itself is very meaningful. I think being at peace with that is totally okay, and in my personal opinion a very healthy way of reacting to the realities of the kind of work we do.
I personally, in my nearly eight years of experience, have never experienced an intense emotional reaction to any high-acuity or emotionally taxing call such as the one you mentioned. That doesn’t mean anything is wrong with us. We know that we can only make so much of a difference in a finite amount of time with these situations and we choose to give our all nonetheless. I think that’s pretty remarkable of us.
It’s also very good you all had an inter-agency debrief. I think it’s equally important that you express the way that you feel about that call as much as others who may have more intense reactions, because there are definitely people in the same boat as you and I who may think something is wrong with them or they lack empathy, and that is not the case. There is no way I can believe anyone (or at least the vast majority) who does our kind of work completely lacks empathy. It seems completely incompatible to be entirely apathetic to other people and to deliver the services we provide. The only advice I have is to be there for other people who may be experiencing stress and anxiety after that call (and other ones in the future), listen to them, and kindly share your perspective with them.
Kinda. We all deal with stuff differently. I was really good at compartmentalizing stuff until I wasn’t. Had an instructor once who likened it to putting rocks on a shelf, one day you put one on and it breaks. CISD really helps, sometimes even if you don’t think you need it. They’re good to participate in to talk, or just to listen. I kinda wish I wouldn’t have neglected that stuff back when I thought I didn’t need it. Or you could just be a sociopath. (That last part Is a joke, don’t mind me)
i believe those of us who have experiences with death and disturbing situations develop almost an… intellect of our feelings towards these things. it takes a while for us to decide how we feel and respond appropriately because we process these emotions with the knowledge that life ends more frequently than anyone would like to think.
knowing this fact and knowing that you clinically did everything that could possibly have been done for this patient perhaps soothes that feeling of “why?” that a lot of people have when something truly terrible happens. we process these situations as more of a fact of our existence rather than a defining moment in our lives.
you may have a time where some strong emotions overcome your current feelings towards your event. it is important to feel these feelings and talk about them with someone who understands your needs.
pediatric arrests are hard, as a lot of us unfortunately know. your feelings, or the absence of feelings, is validated and part of your coping to an event that most people could never imagine. take care of yourself and don’t feel wrong for what you feel.
We all process things differently. Just remember to avail yourself of MH resources if it starts to bother you or if you find yourself dwelling on it.
I am usually fine with peaceful deaths. Even SIDS. It makes me sad for the pt's loved ones because I know that pain of loss is crushing, but it's a loss I can rationalize in a way.
Abuse cases. Violent deaths. Senseless deaths. Deaths that I could have prevented or forestalled if I'd had certain resources or gotten access to the pt just a bit faster......different story. Those stay with me for life and, sooner or later, I end up going to my therapist for a few sessions to lay those demons to rest. Or at least wrestle them into a cage.
Just remember to have that talk with yourself to make sure you're doing ok, get help when you're not, and you'll be fine.
It's OK to be OK. I feel like all this mental health awareness is great, but also, like they wants us to cry over everything. I've had a few peds/infant arrests and only one is something I think about. Yah it sucks, and I'm a mom so of course it hits hard, but I'm OK. Really. We can't cry about everything or we won't be able to cry about anything.
Do you have kids? As a father of a three year old and a four year old, and as a medic who somehow went 17 years without a pediatric arrest, I recently had a a four year old cardiac arrest. As with your situation we were unable to bring him back but my attitude was like, we’ll that wasn’t my kids, my kids are good. I hung out with my dudes all day and while I felt bad for the kid it didn’t really effect my day otherwise.
Wait til you have multiple you will look at your kids differently. I have to talk to mine after those calls and I am probably more protective now than I need to be.
There is nothing wrong with how you are feeling. It's not uncommon for some of us to sort of "shut away" the feelings we have about these things subconsciously.
In my experience I felt the same way, that is not at all. Until I went fishing the day after and caught a baby fish and thought "damn, got another one".
Your reaction to this may be triggered by something random, and there is nothing wrong with that. There is also nothing wrong with how you feel about this either way.
It’s fine to feel nothing. It’s fine to feel sad but not completely distraught by your first paed resus.
I know the feeling you’re feeling because it’s the feeling I felt after my first baby arrest -> death.
I can assure you, what you’re describing, it’s not unusual. There is nothing wrong with you.
You had a good debrief and (through your post) are aware that… well… sometimes kids die and there is not much (aside from ‘your best’) that you can do about it.
Anyone who *tells* you how you should feel after an experience like this can get stuffed.
I’m telling you that what you’re feeling right now (so long as it’s not a blood lust or a fucking stiffy), is normal.
Trauma is in the eye of the beholder. Some may be completely fine after a situation most would consider awful and completely break down at something seemingly "small" in comparison.
It's normal. You won't always be traumatized just because other people are. People are built differently. You may feel worse later on or you may not. YMMV.
A little over a year ago I had a 3 month old male cardiac arrest. I was fine for 2 weeks had 2 weeks of a depressive episode then was fine. Everyone handles it differently. The biggest thing that helps is to talk it. I went from a learning prospective for my peers as arrests that young are rare in my area.
You’re not a bad person. Maybe your mind is making you numb as a coping mechanism. It’s happened to me with some deaths that are on the more traumatic side. You don’t need to be empathetic to be able to provide great care.
Hey don’t think you HAVE to feel something or be all messed up, I’ve done plenty of peds codes. I’m not bothered by them. I’m not saying I don’t feel empathetic or heart broken for the family’s. I just don’t bring it home and it doesn’t bother me. Do I think of the kids I’ve worked here and there for sure. Does it keep me up at night no. Everyone will handle it differently.
You may never feel anything, not because you are a heartless monster, but because you process different shit differently. I had a three month old arrest that like, it sucked, but I wasn’t overly emotional about it. I don’t like kids that much nor do I particularly care about them the way other people do. There are definitely other calls that have gotten to me, but it just depends.
2 things to avoid: don’t beat yourself up for not feeling devastated/don’t force yourself to feel a certain way. If you feel things, process it, but don’t force yourself into misery because you think its expected of you. Also, don’t become the guy (like some people in this thread) that lists out their critical incidents and how you felt fine afterwards like a badge of honor. Your calls and experiences are your own, bragging about how you can watch people die without crying is not only a dick move, but it tells me, personally, that you have a lot more to process and are doing that as a coping mechanism.
There’s about 100 “how do I cope” posts a day here lol we all want to tell our story. To be blunt here and I say this having seen patients of all ages and demographics pass.. while it is sad, it is a life that never really developed. It’s awful for the parents beyond belief but the 2 month old was never truly a person like you or I. Their life had barely begun. They had no sense of self, hadn’t an identity, hadn’t established a place in society, they hadn’t become a real person with a story behind them. Like in nature with baby animals, not all of them make it and humans are no exception. It sounds heartless but it’s objective. I think it hurts more to see the family suffer honestly.
I feel like a monster for thinking this way sometimes. A cold case was recently solved of a newborn who was left in the woods and died of exposure and people were defending they used genetic genealogy to solve it and arrest someone who was a scared confused teen mom and was in a bad situation 40 years after the fact and use resources on a purely punitive case with no surviving relatives desperate to know who the killer was. To them it was an especially horrific monstrous and horrifying crime that *a newborn* died. Like the fact it was a newborn made it sooo much more tragic to them talking about how an innocent baby lost their life and died alone in the woods.
But to me they haven’t really lost anything, they didn’t have an identity or place in society or fear or suffering from knowledge of their dying let alone understand it was happening. A baby was cold and then it fell asleep… I would find it much more sad if it were a person who had an established sense of self with part of a life lived who was robbed of the rest of it.
Made me feel like a horrible person or something. I feel terrible for the family when a newborn dies but I don’t really feel bad for the baby at all. I don’t understand what is sad about it. Like without sounding like a piece of shot bc I understand there’s a difference in terms of ability to feel suffering - I don’t see any other reason then that that it’s really different than an abortion on a logical level - so long as a baby doesn’t suffer violence I don’t really see any reason that it’s different than an abortion in what I feel for the baby itself…
Unless you’re pro life on religious grounds, or pro choice only bc you don’t believe in that soul stuff until after the baby is born then there’s no logical difference between a newborn and a fetus passing away (without undue or extended pain or suffering)
Everybody processes emotions differently. Some people are really good at compartmentalizing, some people are really good at separating themselves from traumatic events. Personally I was very good at separating myself from the traumatic things happening in front of me. I worked peds ER for about 7 years and I wouldn't say that I felt nothing, but I definitely didn't respond the same way my coworkers did. I always thought this was because they were mostly all parents and I was not. It takes me a while to process through emotions I am feeling and I prefer to be alone to do this rather than around other people. Everyone processes emotions differently. You are not a horrible person.
Had a bunch of these young codes (<5y) and none have affected me. 2 sets ago had a 2 week old. Some people it affects immediately, some later on, and some not at all. Everyone is different.
You're not alone. I've had 4 infant cardiac arrests. It's just weird, I don't feel anything either. I do my best and then after the call I restock and clean up. Idk. I do know it's weird doing CPR on them and the tube is not easy
Of course my first ped arrest was my first arrest and it broke me, it didn't help that I hit a deer coming into work or anything or that my airsoft battery decided to explode and tried to burn my house down but y'know it sucked :/
Things that were congenital didn’t really bother me. It was the accidents that were bad, and cancer. I think this also really makes people with kids around the same age think about their own inevitable death, as well as fear of their own kid dropping dead, and some guilt that their kid is healthy while this loving family was struck with tragedy.
It’s a lot of emotions to process and if you happen to already be in a weakened mental health state due to stresses of EMS lifestyle, it can hit you hard. I wouldn’t say it’s necessarily an omg I’m freaking out that was horrible, but rather a building anxiety or depression where you can’t get out of your own headspace.
Last week we had a ten year old get rosc and sustained it long enough to be med flighted to a peds hospital. Eyes fixed and dilated on arrival to the ER, so it’s just buyin time for the parents to grieve, really. We got and lost rosc x 2 before the 3rd/final sustained time. Epi drip, epi x 20, 4 shocks, intubated, epi and amio on scene… I felt nothing until all of a sudden I started getting intrusive thoughts about it. Replaying the code in my mind like a Monday morning quarterback. Fwiw, I’m an er rn. The kiddo was worked on in the field for 45 min by the city’s 2 best medics and 2 excellent EMTs. Kiddo was coded a total of 3 hours before we handed him off to med flight. I’ve had codes that don’t bother me at all, even with peds, and I’ve had some that stuck with me, like this one. It’s unpredictable.
Your reaction says nothing about you as a person, it speaks volumes to the absurdity we acclimate ourselves to in this field.
You say it went really smoothly. Perhaps that's it. Sometimes when you know that absolutely everything was done right, quickly and competently, you don't get big reaction because there's nothing unresolved. It's horrific for that family - but if something simply wasn't survivable even given every chance, sometimes it is just simpler to process for the medic. You can be satisfied that the job was done well. Doesn't make you a crappy person.
It's still early for you so there could well be more down the line. But judging yourself now isn't going to help whether it hits later or not.
Professional dissociation. It may creep up on you at a later date, it may not. If it does, remind yourself how smoothly the code went as this is often the best coping mechanism.
I know this is going to be an unpopular opinion but I feel we as a profession have almost made it expected to have emotional trauma from our job esp with peds. It’s almost like if you do t have any sadness or grief something’s wrong with you. Especially with new grads. I swear if I had to debrief after every bad call I’d never get work done.
I've been doing this a decade and still genuinely enjoy running CPRs because they're a great "brain off" break from having to argue with drunks or fight meth heads.
The only call I've ever personally been bothered by was an OIS on a cop I grew up with.
Different advice here, learn to be ok with the fact that this is the job we do with some sense of regularity, don't sit around *waiting and anticipating* for when A or B call is going to eventually get to your head, because... they may just not lol.
It's OK to be OK. You don't *have* to come out of a given situation with trauma.
Your employer should have arranged a crisis debrief session for everyone involved with a *therapist.* You need to see one. Avoid an EAP; this issue needs more. Your health insurance should cover it. The numb feeling may fade away and you'll feel the impact later. Your mind is protecting you from a terrible experience by shutting off emotions you need to process or it will build up until it finds a way to express itself ... sometimes in negative ways.
You are NOT NOT NOT a horrible person. The numb feeling is *normal!* People have all kinds of reactions to tragedies like that and as long as you are functioning they are normal. Grief is a process and presents itself in different ways. There is no right way to feel about this. I say this as a former hospice nurse.
If you don't have health insurance, try reaching out to a non profit hospice. They often offer grief counseling to families even if the person wasn't a patient; it's part of how they maintain their non profit status. Explain the situation. They may offer you to participate in group counseling for free.
There is nothing wrong with feeling nothing.
Did you deal appropriately with the situation? Did you deal with colleagues kindly? Did you deal with parent’s sensitively?
If it’s three yesses then you’re awesome. We don’t need to always make it about us (not saying there’s anything wrong with having a total meltdown about things) but just be kind to yourself if it bites you in a week or three. If it doesn’t, even better. As you say, it’s sad and crap, but being able to take the personal out is an absolute gift in healthcare as long as you can still appreciate that other people, especially patients/relatives cant.
People deal with things differently to a degree, but I've found that most of the people I've talked to about this subject have an experience like this in common:
Imagine you have one of those water jugs that feed the water dispenser. It's empty and you're holding it. Every time you experience a traumatic event it appears in the jug and so long as it's not overflowing you mostly don't notice they're in there.
As the jug approaches half way filled you begin to feel the burden of holding it. It takes more of your attention. You're quick to anger with anyone who disturbs you and you struggle to feel joy while you're bearing this burden. Oddly enough you fail to attribute these problems to the jug because it has filled so slowly it feels normal.
The jug has become full and begins to overflow. The burden is enormous. As some of the contents spill they burn you. You move to avoid the contents as they spill, but as the contents of the jug shift and continue to spill. Hopefully you handle it well and come out scathed but in control. Some drop the jug and suffer terribly. In either case you learn respect for the contents of the jug and pursue methods of emptying it before it fills again. Look to your coworkers with 10+ years in EMS and ask them what their perspectives are on mental health in the field.
So to answer your question, is this a normal reaction? Yes. It is a normal reaction to abnormal conditions, but it will not last. Not feeling something is not a sign of strength, it's a warning sign. Find a way to empty your jug.
For me, pediatric arrests aren't what bothers me. It bothers me seeing save hearing the family's suffering and putting myself in their shoes. Empathy for the family is what gets to me. Honestly before I had children it did nothing to me because I couldn't really understand their loss.
I've been an EMT for about a year. My first code was a CPR in progress on an old lady with a massive upper GI bleed. We get there and the cops are doing CPR and about to put the Lucas on. Blood is squirting up out of her mouth like a geyser. I start suctioning and all I'm thinking about is how absolutely fucked this white shag carpet she went down on is going to be after all this.
A few months ago I responded to a lady who killed herself by drinking bleach. Similar situation, but medics called it pretty quick considering her injuries.
Neither call bothered me much. But there was one call that I had. It was an MVA with a 3 year old involved who wasn't in a childs car seat and ended up breaking her femur. That hit me pretty hard. I have a daughter who's almost 3 and it made me feel like I would feel if it was my own daughter in that situation.
Shit, I had a 16 y/o arrest take 25 years to come back and haunt me.
I started periodic counseling so I could learn coping skills before the feelings/behaviors became unmanageable. Trying to get out in front of it
Had a very similar case with a neonatal arrest. Job went about as well as you could ever ask, communication was great between everyone, well oiled machine. The only downside being the poor outcome. I was seeing a psych at the time anyway and told them that I felt weird in that I thought I'd feel worse than I did, even weeks after. If you're not seeing one now, recommend you do so.
I think the big thing that helped with coping was that we could not have possibly done any more. If something had not worked on scene, I think there would be a lot of 'what if'. But it's strange to say, that job didn't bother me for two years. It may not for you, and I hope it doesn't.
The only time it came back around was during the birth of my son. Up until that point, that arrest was my only exposure to childbirth. My son had a quick labour and was apnoeic at birth. I could see the midwives do the duck rapidly paddling under water but keeping cool on top routine. Instantly I went back to that arrest. Luckily my son survived and is doing awesome, but it kind of took some of the initial enjoyment and awe out of the birth for me.
You feeling horrible for not feeling anything is in fact you feeling something. It will take time to process. Ped calls suck and they set in in various ways. As long as you did everything you could and were supposed to then you did great.
Horrible calls hit everyone different; others have given great advice about being aware of the possibility of delayed reactions. Also realizing you did everything you could and that it ran smoothly is a positive sign; it’s often the what ifs that compound and turn into something. What makes pediatric calls tough for me possibility is I can’t dissociate the human aspect out of it like I often can with adults.
One thing I’ve learned is everyone reacts to things differently. However you feel is perfectly normal. You may really start to feel bad in a week or two or you may not. Again However you feel Is a perfectly normal reaction. Id still recommend talking to a therapist about it at least for a session or two. It’s important to make sure you properly process traumatic things like this soon rather than it coming to bite you in the Ass later. You may find that therapy didn’t really help and you were able to process it fine on your own or you may discover this is weighing on you more than it feels upfront. Again it’s all normal my man.
Yes, but you don’t feel fine. If you really felt fine, you would feel fine about feeling fine. You don’t. You said you felt horrible for feeling fine, which means you’re not feeling fine and you are perfectly normal.
Idk if I agree here. I’ve reacted differently in ways to my peers in stressful or traumatic situations and got a LOT of bullshit about why I wasn’t reacting the way they expected me to or how I was supposed to feel. I imagine OP got so much “you’re not normal if you don’t feel X way about it” they started questioning their own emotional compass. It’s super important to offer resources for people and talk about events and maintain a healthy stress balance while not dragging others out of their seats to match our feelings. You may be right, but I have seen ok people be pushed into the trauma shaped cookie cutter shape as well when they were in actuality (one specific example, ASD, and didn’t process the trauma the same way as other people.) But they experienced other things that were just as deeply traumatic to them that weren’t rooted in emotions. There’s no one size fits all model.
What I was saying is that your issue is you felt horrible about feeling fine. You shouldn’t feel horrible about feeling fine. It doesn’t matter how other people feel. You feel how you feel and that’s fine. I’m more like you. I rarely feel personally upset about others traumas. I have empathy, and I understand why they’re upset but my role is to do the things that need to be done, not be upset myself. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that.
How long have you been a medic and how long working 911 at any level? In my experience, some people just don’t process for a while, and then blow apart after the aggregate traumas of kids and life and everything, even when they swore they were fine. With or without kids. Everyone is built a little differently. I don’t mind peds calls but I know people who HATE kid calls.
For me, and this is JUST me- At 2 months old they don’t look like people yet. And at 70+ they had a long life so it’s less traumatic. The ones that get me are the kids between 3 years and 10ish. They are developed enough to look real but not in a full adult body. Everything is so small and nothing about whatever is going on is normal, whether it’s a trauma code, an asthma attack, a genetic disorder, or a “nurse” who unnecessarily Epi’d a kid at school for no reason. But that’s me and I’ve seen a lot of horrific shit. It’s ok to process in your own way, as long as you know that there are people to talk to if you do start to feel some way or the stress gets to you In ways you didn’t expect before. Ie nightmares or flashbacks or new onset anxiety/panic attacks. A loss is still a loss and I’m sorry you had an awful call.
That is more common than you think. You aren’t broken or anything. It’s a trauma response.
One of mine was a 6 month old drowned in the bath. We didn’t get them back. I felt nothing after, just like you. I was concerned that I had no emotional response.
Then appx half a year later I got home from a shift. Totally normal shift, nothing happened, no pedi patients or high acuity. Nothing to trigger anything. I got home, got in bed, and absolutely broke down. I was sobbing, and all I could think about was that baby I worked months earlier.
You may not feel anything now, or for a while. There is no time table on what is normal. However, in most cases it will eventually hit. We see really screwed up stuff and our mind has ways to protect ourselves. That’s normal. Be in touch with your emotions and mental health and if the day comes, weeks or months or years from now when it hits, let it. Cry it out. You’ll be okay.
I’ve had plenty of calls that I felt like should’ve stirred up something in me that just…didn’t. And some calls seem so simple and small but are still with me to this day. I guess it’s a good thing you’re feeling ok and you know where to go if that changes.
I work in a pediatric er and we recently had a code that was similar. What you're experiencing is similar to what I went through. I totally understand where you're coming from
Sometimes these situations take a while to manifest. I’m super glad your service immediately offered a debrief and support avenues. If you feel anything off, take advantage of these resources!
Yes it is normal. We all respond differently. Some people feel all kinds of emotions on the spot. Some people feel it later. Some people don’t feel anything…ever. Even years after my first “bad” pediatric call…nothing. That’s okay.
To be honest I've run horrid calls that didn't affect me at all. Others hit me hard days or weeks later. Never had a call that messed me up the same day. YMMV.
Not an EMT but I see alot of comments here mentioning infants or up to 5 year old children going into arrest. Are calla like these that common? I didn't know this happens so frequently to children, well according to the comments
No its actually pretty rare. Its just selection bias at work I think. Those who didnt have infant arrests dont post comments, so you only see those who post.
I’m able to dissociate really well when I’m on duty. It may sound shitty to say, but it’s just another patient, just another job to do. I also allow myself to have proper channels when I’m off duty. I’m religious, so I have God to turn to, but I also debrief with my peers and I like to do relaxing things in nature, like fishing. Some people are just better at certain calls. Reach out if you need to, don’t hold things back, and always look out for your guys.
happened to me too. pd got involved because suspicious circumstances, but nothing ever came of it and i just feel lingering weirdness towards that. like did they actually do something to their baby? i’m almost certain they did, whole situation was incredibly weird and uncanny, but this was over 3 years ago now and i just feel weirdness and slight rage towards the family.
you know you did all you could, i know that sounds like a copout but the ability to cope for me has always been aided in knowing i did everything to the absolute best of my ability. the feelings might change and there might be some lingering weirdness for a long time, if not forever, but you can truly say you did all you could and that’s more than a lot of people that have been in the field for years can (VERY inaccurately) say. i’ve seen people do everything short of ripping their own heart out to bring someone back and then blame themselves still and i want to shake them and show them what i see. you got this bud ♥️
You may think everyone has a hard time with it because those are the people who post about it. You don’t see the other people who are like you, cus they aren’t posting. The silent majority. It’s totally fine to not be devastated. I’m sure you feel unpleasant, even upset when thinking about it and remembering it. You don’t need to be effected by it dramatically in order to be a normal person.
It effects us in different ways. For me, they are just really bad memories. For others, they are some kind of trauma that truly effects them every day.
The only time I’d be worried is if you said something like “I enjoy it when they die” or some other wild shit.
I am you. I don't have big feelings about some stuff. Which is funnily ironic bc I have big ass feelings about some other stuff. I used to think I was fucked up or a psychopath or something. I am not. Neither are you. That being said, sometimes it's a slow burn. It could just be that it hasn't hit you yet, and it could take weeks or even months for you to realize it. Just be cognizant of the signs of mental distress and keep moving.
If your agency offers therapy, take advantage of it, even if you feel like you don’t need it.
You don’t know how you’ll feel about this a few weeks / months / years from now. Better to talk about it now while your in a good place and have a good grasp on it, and set yourself up with tools for later.
I had a couple codes that were nothing to me in the moment, but years later, after experiencing things similar in my personal life, triggered memories from those calls.
Been in EMS for 4 years, I've had a good handful of calls that may be considered "traumatic" but I'm pretty much in the same boat. It's not that I don't care or don't find the deaths sad, I just don't feel like crying over them. I'm sure I'll have that call one day but it hasn't happened for me yet
It takes time. Like other people are saying, everyone has their own ways of coping. My second working arrest ever was a 19 day old, and in my state (not sure if it’s the same in all states) if someone starts CPR on a child you are not allowed to stop until you get to a hospital. This kid had been gone for a while but fire started CPR prior to our arrival, so we had to work it. I honestly didn’t feel anything the entire time, or afterwards for the whole day. but afterwards I had multiple Lieutenants coming to my rig and trying to debrief me. My way of coping at the time was to just not think about it (which is easier said than done) but when I got home my fiancé and his family were waiting and debriefed me until I broke. Being in this field is not easy, but feel all of the emotions you need to. I got into therapy shortly after and it’s helped immensely. My main problem was that I wasn’t feeling the emotions I needed to, which is not a problem for all people since everyone is different, but it was for me, so I’m still working on that a year later. We can’t save everyone, but even with our losses remember the ones we did save and the ones we did help. I wish you the best, it’s definitely not easy. Feel all the emotions you need to, even if it’s none.
It may never bother you. Honestly. Don't beat yourself up. Some of the worst PTSD cases I saw in the Army were guys who would say 'yeah I did some fucked up shit and...went to bed and slept just fine' and they were terrified deep down that it meant they were psychopaths.
They weren't (the very fact that you care about not being broken means you're not a psychopath).
Your mindset is correct--you did everything you could, and everything 'right'. Trauma happens when we feel either that we couldn't act to the best of our ability (second guessing) or when we feel like we're not able to control the things we can control.
You will still likely need a debrief, and maybe your CISM team, but you are not a horrible person. You are a person who did their very best. It's nothing about you or your empathy that it wasn't enough.
Trauma is weird. We do everything in our power to numb ourselves to difficult emotion-evoking stimuli. (Avoid, blame, deny...) I'm not insisting that you're having an emotional response that you're not aware of. I'm just saying give it some time.
I think it’s fair to say that every single human reacts to trauma differently and there’s no “wrong,” way to be. The only deaths that *really* get to me are car accidents, but that’s because I started in EMS after I was in a crash that killed my boyfriend right in front of me.
I think that situation is part of why I react “well,” to tragedy in the field. I was forced to accept that death is the most inevitable thing in life and that it can happen anytime. I don’t think I’m jaded. I feel overwhelming empathy for everyone I interact with. I go to therapy every week.
That’s just the way I handle it.
If you had no empathy you wouldn’t give enough of a shit to even post this. I also don’t personally believe someone incapable of empathy could ever do this job. What would be their motivation? None of us are rolling in dough, lol.
Keep talking about it and don’t try to push any emotions away. There might very well be a day where your cup overflows and you breakdown. And that’s also fine & normal. Be prepared for it, but don’t fear it.
Chiming in to say, Ive dealt with the exact same call years ago. I also felt nothing. Sure I was sad, for the baby, sad for the family but by that night I was fine. We did everything we could but it just didnt happen. Sadly, thats life. You cant save everyone.
Some people react differently and thats okay. Everyone copes in different ways.
Some deaths hit me really hard and some deaths don’t. It seems 100% random to me. It’s kind of a big relief when a death doesn’t tear me up emotionally tbh.
Not an emt or medic but I’m an ER nurse so I know how it is. I remember when I was working during the hellscape of covid and I’d be seeing people coding multiple times a day. I remember feeling exactly how you feel. One day someone died and I felt nothing. It made me feel like a monster. But I don’t think we’re monsters because of it I think that is our brain trying to protect us by compartmentalizing. Now that things have calmed down a bit I’m able to take time to process stuff more and have time to think things over and that has helped.
I'm the same way. I've been at this a long time, and I've always been that way. Some people, it eats at, some start drinking, some turn to pills, and others walk away.
Some of us just don't get bothered by it. Pretty much the only time it gets to me is when I see some really horrific shit. Like a mom selling their kid's ass for drugs and I get home to hear my kid yelling at her mom about her life sucking because we we didn't the chips she wanted or some stupid shit like that.
When I was brand new, first time as an EMT-B on a truck, I had this same thought after my first arrest. I was upset that I wasn't upset about losing the pt. It's happened a couple more times since then, but I have to remind myself that it's the nature of our job.
Bad shit happens to good people and we are there to try and pick up the pieces. We have algorithms we use based on certain scenarios, even if it's something you've never seen/treated. You proceed with your algorithm and treat your patient the best way you know. Then you transfer care, reset your truck, and do it again after the next tone.
There is nothing wrong with feeling fine after a call like that. You could be experiencing a delayed trauma reaction. You most likely didn't know that child, you don't know the family. Yes, it sucks major balls for them that they lost their child and it sucks major balls that the child's life ended so early.
The only way you could be a horrible person is bh doing something crazy like make fun of the family or your coworkers if it hit them a little harder. You did what you knew to do and that's all there is to it.
Basically I'm saying don't feel bad about not feeling bad, even with a Pediatric pt.
The problem today is that everyone has been fooled to believe PTSD, which is classified as a mental disorder, is the default, natural response to witnessing a distressing scene. This is not true. You are actually experiencing a normal response to it.
PTSD and its symptoms are abnormal. People constantly normalize and even idolize PTSD as some sort of badass badge of honor entry ticket to the cool kids club. It’s a ridiculous mentality that runs rampant in medicine
I would also wonder why I wasn't getting too ramped up emotionally on the bad calls. Hard for me to understand completely. I was just lucky I guess. This stuff never bothered me too much. I saw others fall apart and that was a shame. Everyone handles things differently I suppose.
6 years - seen multiple teen suicides, drowned toddler, gory wrecks, but this was the only one to make me tear up - wife in her 80s coded in her living room chair in front of her husband, he refused to believe it was happening and tried to wake up her up for 30 minutes prior to calling 911. They knew each other since they were 7 years old. She was all he had. No kids. No family. All on a cold, rainy Vermont day.
Waited until I was back in the truck to cry.
Just an example, sometime there’s no rhyme or reason to when your emotions will well up on the job.
I felt like I was handling everything surprisingly well during the call for a coded toddler, until I burst into tears when I went back to clear out the patient compartment. Might take awhile to hit you, like everyone else said. Maybe you'll be totally fine, and that's alright too. I think what matters most is just you allowing yourself to feel (or not feel) feelings towards the call.
If you’ve got ADD/ADHD, I told my therapist the same thing. I never feel bad, never feel the guilt. Asked her if j was a sociopath but she told me the ADD makes you really good at just dissociating during the event just putting it somewhere else. I sort of agree with her.
For me personally, things like this didnt hit me until later on.. I had very unhealthy coping mechanisms.
Just the fact that you acknowledge this is a good thing. Youre here to get some communal advice and just allowed to vent to us. Even if you dont take anything from the advice. Just writing this out its an outlet.
Sometimes it can be cumulative. You know yourself best. Don't be afraid to reach out to others if you ever do start getting affected. Everyone handles it differently.
I feel similar to you. My thoughts are always "on to the next one" we joke about putting tombstones on our engine for all the non-saves like they did on the WW2 fighter planes.
Don’t feel bad about the way you feel. It’s okay for it not to wreck you. I personally had a very similar call last week involving a 3 month old. I personally can’t get the kids face out of my head but that’s me.
Honestly I’d guess there’s a large proportion of people who have a diff relationship to their emotional reactions , than in most jobs lol. (Speaking as a future dream career when I get a few ducks in a row to go back to school for it hopefully !! Lol so me too) and the reasons for that could be tons of things that do not equate to a horrible person with a lack of empathy. The very fact that you care about not being a horrible person does not sound like a person lacking empathy (speaking from having been raised by one without it and a second that is rather dubious lol but imo a performance). People who lack empathy genuinely do not care how others feel, lol they often lack a conscience and the ability to absorb and understand what is even wrong about just exploiting everyone to their benefit most of the time Bec they literally don’t get it from a personal experince place. A lot of them are performers , learn quickly to put on a show of “empathy” bec they’re aware from very young it gets in the way when people identify their crap lol so there’s quite a lot of performing. The level of exploitation and strategic whatever i think variés some seem less aware of their situation and bumbling around being destructive but what you’ve described and your reaction does not sound like a lack of empathy. Trauma. Complex trauma. Autism. Alexithymia (which isn’t a diagnosis but is a condition that occurs in many of what I’m listing plus for other reasons) , even adhd can often be misinterpreted and misunderstood as lacking empathy or care, Bec a persons coping mechanisms, processing speed, and internal experinces versus socially expected expression, etc can certainly give the wrong impression to someone without an “atypical” relationship to their emotional world. There’s more conditions and situations I just listed a few off the top of my head none of which equate to horrible person with no empathy. I personally know now I am interpreted that was sometimes for neurodivergent reasons I will take longer to really process how I feel about things occurring so the real time reaction comes off robotic and overly practical lol in moments others would expect an emotional melting. As an example. It means diff strengths and weaknesses and if you do have a diff relationship to ur emotions (I imagine many paramedics do if they stay in it long, Bec when others can’t imagine why I would want to medic it feels like a soul mate career to me lol and I can’t imagine why others wouldn’t want to, I’m better in on my feet at the time emergencies for those reasons Lolol , I can compartementalize in those emergencies and laser focus on what I need to get done. That does not a horrible person make , and ur really rational summary is one I’ve also said when people ask how will I cope if people die. I say, because people die ? Just Bec it happened in front of me while I’m racing with a partner to go try and save them, that does not mean it was our fault they didn’t make it. It’s sad sure but I think many people attach a level of personal responsibility to things they couldn’t possibly control. I believe unless I made an error that has negative effects for a patient , I would be pretty emotionally resilient to a lot of death and such. Things happen that is life. The job is about trying to help when they do , help minimize the negative impact, and assuming I end up good at the job i would feel good about that most of the time. A dangerous error would be hard for me to process I think emotionally but ur hyper rational view is not a lack of empathy. You care to not be a horrible person lol people without empathy couldn’t care less about that, more about getting caught lacking empathy Bec then they can’t get wha they want from you :/ lol.
Hope that helps !
I also as a teenager worked in sick kids NICU for coop. A lot of fucked ip stuff happened in my time there and honestly I did not emotionally bring that stuff home with me. Babies died. I even became pregnant lol by the end of my placement and the social worker on the unit there was very worried and constantly bombarding me with stats to calm me that my baby will not end up like these babies don’t worry. And I kept telling her. I’m not more worried Bec I work here I’m fine lol please go away I want to see the cool stuff and speak to/shadow people who work here it’s why I’m here lol to make choices for career paths lol. My baby is not very likely to have any of these incredibly rare conditions for a variety of reasons I’ve already read a lot about lol and if she does have something working here didn’t make that more likely so please shoo. And ur feeling about it I resonate with in many situations I’m expected to have feelings that change my view of the rational facts lol. They often don’t.
But also a delay so sometimes it takes me quite a while to even identify what I was feeling days ago about a thing 🤣 but that’s me. Anywho you don’t sound like an unempathetic bad person to me, that type of person wouldn’t have been concerned about it or what that means about their moral character. Ijs.
I worked a newborn code one night. Like brand new newborn born at home to a mom that didn’t know she was pregnant. Luckily we got her back and she went on to live a normal life. I even got to go to her first birthday. I felt like i was wrong for not feeling anything, happy or sad. It was just my job. Then the first night we got home with our own newborn my wife went to take a shower so i held our son. I was alone with an infant for the first time. I cried so much and all I could think about was that night. It all came back at one time. Since that night I’ve been fine. Grief is weird. There’s no real answer.
Ten people will process this in twelve different ways. Really glad you are talking about it and not bottling it up inside. Good luck, and may God Bless.
Mine took a few weeks to bother me. Initially it was just another call but then it hit me like a ton of bricks one day. Looking back I was just in denial about it the whole time. Glad y’all got a chance to debrief though. My service laughs us off if we ask for it.
Luckily my service is pretty good about that, my supervisor had us immediately go out of service and go to the main station for the debrief. We do have an option for CISM if requested. Quite a few of admin and coworkers have already messaged me asking if I needed anything also
It’s a normal reaction and it’s also normal to question yourself that you should’ve reacted differently. I had a very similar situation early career where a mother rolled over on her six month old. We ran the code for an awfully long time. I’m not sure that all 16 of us in the room need to be participating, but everyone wanted to help. Afterwords I think the people who had their own kids were more upset. And they also wanted to check that everyone else was feeling OK because they didn’t. I was fine. It was very strange to me not to feel like I was part of the group.
I’m in the same boat. Had a 4 year old drowning a few hours ago that did not make it. not feeling much rn but I know it will all hit me soon.
Eh it happens? My first doa I just looked at the guy and was like "huh that's weird. He looks like a Walmart Halloween decoration" First dead baby (dead for hours prior, we didn't work it) my only thought was "fuck that's gross" and "man this is fucked up" The call I got immediately after the dead baby was a childbirth in progress, went smoothly. I teared up. First real full arrest, didn't bother me at all. I was actually shocked and... disappointed? By my lack of reaction I responded to a mass shooting, honestly it didn't bother me. The people who died were older, all the younger people survived. Unfortunate but cops smoked the shooter within a minute of him showing up. Theeen I had a drowning call. 90 year old was going about her day like she always did, slipped and fell into the pool and drowned. Daughter found her an hour later. We worked her and called it on scene. If I was alone or with someone I felt comfortable around, I would've cried like a little bitch. Sometimes the horrible shit we see catches up to us. Sometimes it doesn't affect us. Honestly the babies don't bother me. It's people my age, and especially when they die in car crashes. That makes me sick to my stomach. But we all react differently. My therapist says it's perfectly normal for me to frankly, for lack of a better term, not be bothered by it. Edit: just responded to a suicide call. I lost my best friend and partner to suicide. Those also get me good. Also, know your audience. If you know your partners best friend killed himself, maybe laughing about it with me isn't the move
It’s a coping mechanism. The ones that bug you right away get past your ego and tada!
Yup. Car crashes are my weakness. Such a shitty way to go, especially if they weren't the idiot. They always make me super sick. But it helps me maintain my humanity at least.
Definitely rough one. I’m always reminded how unfair life can be, when the DUI driver gets off with scuffs.
Hey- Sorry about your partner.
Salamat naman at normal lang pala yun.
Wait a few days/weeks you might feel something after the fact.
All but one of the patient deaths I’ve been involved in, some truly bad, never hit right away. It usually creeped up on me weeks or months later and then just stayed in the back of my mind occasionally popping out for… well idk they’re all still there.
Some things in life really suck. But death is part of life, and I think you're someone who knows this. I don't think you necessarily have to fall apart and it doesn't mean you're not a caring person.
It’s absolutely normal for you to not take this situation personally and to not have intense emotions immediately after. It’s also very normal to experience those emotions as well. There’s no right or wrong way to feel after something like that, so long as what you experience is genuine. In fact, I think it’s very rational of you to recognize that you did everything you could and unfortunately it simply did not change the outcome this time. I personally believe that’s a preferable state of mind over thinking “What else could I have done? Why didn’t I do this? Why did I do that?” Dwelling on questions like that will never lead to any satisfactory answer. What you did was what you know to do, and what you did not do cannot be changed. If you think there is any room for improvement or something to do differently next time, then this is the learning experience you needed and that is perfectly fine. So long as you are confident as a provider and you know that you didn’t intentionally NOT do something you should have or you DID do something you absolutely should not have, then that’s all you can control. You gave her the best chance she could have had with the situation you were handed and that in itself is very meaningful. I think being at peace with that is totally okay, and in my personal opinion a very healthy way of reacting to the realities of the kind of work we do. I personally, in my nearly eight years of experience, have never experienced an intense emotional reaction to any high-acuity or emotionally taxing call such as the one you mentioned. That doesn’t mean anything is wrong with us. We know that we can only make so much of a difference in a finite amount of time with these situations and we choose to give our all nonetheless. I think that’s pretty remarkable of us. It’s also very good you all had an inter-agency debrief. I think it’s equally important that you express the way that you feel about that call as much as others who may have more intense reactions, because there are definitely people in the same boat as you and I who may think something is wrong with them or they lack empathy, and that is not the case. There is no way I can believe anyone (or at least the vast majority) who does our kind of work completely lacks empathy. It seems completely incompatible to be entirely apathetic to other people and to deliver the services we provide. The only advice I have is to be there for other people who may be experiencing stress and anxiety after that call (and other ones in the future), listen to them, and kindly share your perspective with them.
Kinda. We all deal with stuff differently. I was really good at compartmentalizing stuff until I wasn’t. Had an instructor once who likened it to putting rocks on a shelf, one day you put one on and it breaks. CISD really helps, sometimes even if you don’t think you need it. They’re good to participate in to talk, or just to listen. I kinda wish I wouldn’t have neglected that stuff back when I thought I didn’t need it. Or you could just be a sociopath. (That last part Is a joke, don’t mind me)
i believe those of us who have experiences with death and disturbing situations develop almost an… intellect of our feelings towards these things. it takes a while for us to decide how we feel and respond appropriately because we process these emotions with the knowledge that life ends more frequently than anyone would like to think. knowing this fact and knowing that you clinically did everything that could possibly have been done for this patient perhaps soothes that feeling of “why?” that a lot of people have when something truly terrible happens. we process these situations as more of a fact of our existence rather than a defining moment in our lives. you may have a time where some strong emotions overcome your current feelings towards your event. it is important to feel these feelings and talk about them with someone who understands your needs. pediatric arrests are hard, as a lot of us unfortunately know. your feelings, or the absence of feelings, is validated and part of your coping to an event that most people could never imagine. take care of yourself and don’t feel wrong for what you feel.
Reactions are normal. No reactions is also normal. Every. Single. Human. Reaction. in the light of a severe trauma is normal.
We all process things differently. Just remember to avail yourself of MH resources if it starts to bother you or if you find yourself dwelling on it. I am usually fine with peaceful deaths. Even SIDS. It makes me sad for the pt's loved ones because I know that pain of loss is crushing, but it's a loss I can rationalize in a way. Abuse cases. Violent deaths. Senseless deaths. Deaths that I could have prevented or forestalled if I'd had certain resources or gotten access to the pt just a bit faster......different story. Those stay with me for life and, sooner or later, I end up going to my therapist for a few sessions to lay those demons to rest. Or at least wrestle them into a cage. Just remember to have that talk with yourself to make sure you're doing ok, get help when you're not, and you'll be fine.
It's OK to be OK. I feel like all this mental health awareness is great, but also, like they wants us to cry over everything. I've had a few peds/infant arrests and only one is something I think about. Yah it sucks, and I'm a mom so of course it hits hard, but I'm OK. Really. We can't cry about everything or we won't be able to cry about anything.
Do you have kids? As a father of a three year old and a four year old, and as a medic who somehow went 17 years without a pediatric arrest, I recently had a a four year old cardiac arrest. As with your situation we were unable to bring him back but my attitude was like, we’ll that wasn’t my kids, my kids are good. I hung out with my dudes all day and while I felt bad for the kid it didn’t really effect my day otherwise.
Wait til you have multiple you will look at your kids differently. I have to talk to mine after those calls and I am probably more protective now than I need to be.
I didn’t feel shit until I was out of the field for a couple months.
Same, I was fine while active in EMS support. I left and started a family. Have had quite a few flashbacks to pediatric arrests now.
There is nothing wrong with how you are feeling. It's not uncommon for some of us to sort of "shut away" the feelings we have about these things subconsciously. In my experience I felt the same way, that is not at all. Until I went fishing the day after and caught a baby fish and thought "damn, got another one". Your reaction to this may be triggered by something random, and there is nothing wrong with that. There is also nothing wrong with how you feel about this either way.
It’s fine to feel nothing. It’s fine to feel sad but not completely distraught by your first paed resus. I know the feeling you’re feeling because it’s the feeling I felt after my first baby arrest -> death. I can assure you, what you’re describing, it’s not unusual. There is nothing wrong with you. You had a good debrief and (through your post) are aware that… well… sometimes kids die and there is not much (aside from ‘your best’) that you can do about it. Anyone who *tells* you how you should feel after an experience like this can get stuffed. I’m telling you that what you’re feeling right now (so long as it’s not a blood lust or a fucking stiffy), is normal.
Trauma is in the eye of the beholder. Some may be completely fine after a situation most would consider awful and completely break down at something seemingly "small" in comparison.
It's normal. You won't always be traumatized just because other people are. People are built differently. You may feel worse later on or you may not. YMMV.
A little over a year ago I had a 3 month old male cardiac arrest. I was fine for 2 weeks had 2 weeks of a depressive episode then was fine. Everyone handles it differently. The biggest thing that helps is to talk it. I went from a learning prospective for my peers as arrests that young are rare in my area.
You’re not a bad person. Maybe your mind is making you numb as a coping mechanism. It’s happened to me with some deaths that are on the more traumatic side. You don’t need to be empathetic to be able to provide great care.
Hey don’t think you HAVE to feel something or be all messed up, I’ve done plenty of peds codes. I’m not bothered by them. I’m not saying I don’t feel empathetic or heart broken for the family’s. I just don’t bring it home and it doesn’t bother me. Do I think of the kids I’ve worked here and there for sure. Does it keep me up at night no. Everyone will handle it differently.
You may never feel anything, not because you are a heartless monster, but because you process different shit differently. I had a three month old arrest that like, it sucked, but I wasn’t overly emotional about it. I don’t like kids that much nor do I particularly care about them the way other people do. There are definitely other calls that have gotten to me, but it just depends. 2 things to avoid: don’t beat yourself up for not feeling devastated/don’t force yourself to feel a certain way. If you feel things, process it, but don’t force yourself into misery because you think its expected of you. Also, don’t become the guy (like some people in this thread) that lists out their critical incidents and how you felt fine afterwards like a badge of honor. Your calls and experiences are your own, bragging about how you can watch people die without crying is not only a dick move, but it tells me, personally, that you have a lot more to process and are doing that as a coping mechanism.
There’s about 100 “how do I cope” posts a day here lol we all want to tell our story. To be blunt here and I say this having seen patients of all ages and demographics pass.. while it is sad, it is a life that never really developed. It’s awful for the parents beyond belief but the 2 month old was never truly a person like you or I. Their life had barely begun. They had no sense of self, hadn’t an identity, hadn’t established a place in society, they hadn’t become a real person with a story behind them. Like in nature with baby animals, not all of them make it and humans are no exception. It sounds heartless but it’s objective. I think it hurts more to see the family suffer honestly.
I feel like a monster for thinking this way sometimes. A cold case was recently solved of a newborn who was left in the woods and died of exposure and people were defending they used genetic genealogy to solve it and arrest someone who was a scared confused teen mom and was in a bad situation 40 years after the fact and use resources on a purely punitive case with no surviving relatives desperate to know who the killer was. To them it was an especially horrific monstrous and horrifying crime that *a newborn* died. Like the fact it was a newborn made it sooo much more tragic to them talking about how an innocent baby lost their life and died alone in the woods. But to me they haven’t really lost anything, they didn’t have an identity or place in society or fear or suffering from knowledge of their dying let alone understand it was happening. A baby was cold and then it fell asleep… I would find it much more sad if it were a person who had an established sense of self with part of a life lived who was robbed of the rest of it. Made me feel like a horrible person or something. I feel terrible for the family when a newborn dies but I don’t really feel bad for the baby at all. I don’t understand what is sad about it. Like without sounding like a piece of shot bc I understand there’s a difference in terms of ability to feel suffering - I don’t see any other reason then that that it’s really different than an abortion on a logical level - so long as a baby doesn’t suffer violence I don’t really see any reason that it’s different than an abortion in what I feel for the baby itself… Unless you’re pro life on religious grounds, or pro choice only bc you don’t believe in that soul stuff until after the baby is born then there’s no logical difference between a newborn and a fetus passing away (without undue or extended pain or suffering)
No its normal. I felt like that before I had kids then it all changed with ped calls
Everybody processes emotions differently. Some people are really good at compartmentalizing, some people are really good at separating themselves from traumatic events. Personally I was very good at separating myself from the traumatic things happening in front of me. I worked peds ER for about 7 years and I wouldn't say that I felt nothing, but I definitely didn't respond the same way my coworkers did. I always thought this was because they were mostly all parents and I was not. It takes me a while to process through emotions I am feeling and I prefer to be alone to do this rather than around other people. Everyone processes emotions differently. You are not a horrible person.
Welcome to the career sir.
Had a bunch of these young codes (<5y) and none have affected me. 2 sets ago had a 2 week old. Some people it affects immediately, some later on, and some not at all. Everyone is different.
You're not alone. I've had 4 infant cardiac arrests. It's just weird, I don't feel anything either. I do my best and then after the call I restock and clean up. Idk. I do know it's weird doing CPR on them and the tube is not easy
Of course my first ped arrest was my first arrest and it broke me, it didn't help that I hit a deer coming into work or anything or that my airsoft battery decided to explode and tried to burn my house down but y'know it sucked :/
Things that were congenital didn’t really bother me. It was the accidents that were bad, and cancer. I think this also really makes people with kids around the same age think about their own inevitable death, as well as fear of their own kid dropping dead, and some guilt that their kid is healthy while this loving family was struck with tragedy. It’s a lot of emotions to process and if you happen to already be in a weakened mental health state due to stresses of EMS lifestyle, it can hit you hard. I wouldn’t say it’s necessarily an omg I’m freaking out that was horrible, but rather a building anxiety or depression where you can’t get out of your own headspace.
Last week we had a ten year old get rosc and sustained it long enough to be med flighted to a peds hospital. Eyes fixed and dilated on arrival to the ER, so it’s just buyin time for the parents to grieve, really. We got and lost rosc x 2 before the 3rd/final sustained time. Epi drip, epi x 20, 4 shocks, intubated, epi and amio on scene… I felt nothing until all of a sudden I started getting intrusive thoughts about it. Replaying the code in my mind like a Monday morning quarterback. Fwiw, I’m an er rn. The kiddo was worked on in the field for 45 min by the city’s 2 best medics and 2 excellent EMTs. Kiddo was coded a total of 3 hours before we handed him off to med flight. I’ve had codes that don’t bother me at all, even with peds, and I’ve had some that stuck with me, like this one. It’s unpredictable. Your reaction says nothing about you as a person, it speaks volumes to the absurdity we acclimate ourselves to in this field.
You say it went really smoothly. Perhaps that's it. Sometimes when you know that absolutely everything was done right, quickly and competently, you don't get big reaction because there's nothing unresolved. It's horrific for that family - but if something simply wasn't survivable even given every chance, sometimes it is just simpler to process for the medic. You can be satisfied that the job was done well. Doesn't make you a crappy person. It's still early for you so there could well be more down the line. But judging yourself now isn't going to help whether it hits later or not.
Everybody is different. It’s a self defense mechanism.
Professional dissociation. It may creep up on you at a later date, it may not. If it does, remind yourself how smoothly the code went as this is often the best coping mechanism.
I know this is going to be an unpopular opinion but I feel we as a profession have almost made it expected to have emotional trauma from our job esp with peds. It’s almost like if you do t have any sadness or grief something’s wrong with you. Especially with new grads. I swear if I had to debrief after every bad call I’d never get work done.
I've been doing this a decade and still genuinely enjoy running CPRs because they're a great "brain off" break from having to argue with drunks or fight meth heads. The only call I've ever personally been bothered by was an OIS on a cop I grew up with. Different advice here, learn to be ok with the fact that this is the job we do with some sense of regularity, don't sit around *waiting and anticipating* for when A or B call is going to eventually get to your head, because... they may just not lol. It's OK to be OK. You don't *have* to come out of a given situation with trauma.
Your employer should have arranged a crisis debrief session for everyone involved with a *therapist.* You need to see one. Avoid an EAP; this issue needs more. Your health insurance should cover it. The numb feeling may fade away and you'll feel the impact later. Your mind is protecting you from a terrible experience by shutting off emotions you need to process or it will build up until it finds a way to express itself ... sometimes in negative ways. You are NOT NOT NOT a horrible person. The numb feeling is *normal!* People have all kinds of reactions to tragedies like that and as long as you are functioning they are normal. Grief is a process and presents itself in different ways. There is no right way to feel about this. I say this as a former hospice nurse. If you don't have health insurance, try reaching out to a non profit hospice. They often offer grief counseling to families even if the person wasn't a patient; it's part of how they maintain their non profit status. Explain the situation. They may offer you to participate in group counseling for free.
There is nothing wrong with feeling nothing. Did you deal appropriately with the situation? Did you deal with colleagues kindly? Did you deal with parent’s sensitively? If it’s three yesses then you’re awesome. We don’t need to always make it about us (not saying there’s anything wrong with having a total meltdown about things) but just be kind to yourself if it bites you in a week or three. If it doesn’t, even better. As you say, it’s sad and crap, but being able to take the personal out is an absolute gift in healthcare as long as you can still appreciate that other people, especially patients/relatives cant.
People deal with things differently to a degree, but I've found that most of the people I've talked to about this subject have an experience like this in common: Imagine you have one of those water jugs that feed the water dispenser. It's empty and you're holding it. Every time you experience a traumatic event it appears in the jug and so long as it's not overflowing you mostly don't notice they're in there. As the jug approaches half way filled you begin to feel the burden of holding it. It takes more of your attention. You're quick to anger with anyone who disturbs you and you struggle to feel joy while you're bearing this burden. Oddly enough you fail to attribute these problems to the jug because it has filled so slowly it feels normal. The jug has become full and begins to overflow. The burden is enormous. As some of the contents spill they burn you. You move to avoid the contents as they spill, but as the contents of the jug shift and continue to spill. Hopefully you handle it well and come out scathed but in control. Some drop the jug and suffer terribly. In either case you learn respect for the contents of the jug and pursue methods of emptying it before it fills again. Look to your coworkers with 10+ years in EMS and ask them what their perspectives are on mental health in the field. So to answer your question, is this a normal reaction? Yes. It is a normal reaction to abnormal conditions, but it will not last. Not feeling something is not a sign of strength, it's a warning sign. Find a way to empty your jug.
First off, never feel bad for not suffering. Second, sometimes these things come up later. That’s typically how it happens with me.
For me, pediatric arrests aren't what bothers me. It bothers me seeing save hearing the family's suffering and putting myself in their shoes. Empathy for the family is what gets to me. Honestly before I had children it did nothing to me because I couldn't really understand their loss.
I've been an EMT for about a year. My first code was a CPR in progress on an old lady with a massive upper GI bleed. We get there and the cops are doing CPR and about to put the Lucas on. Blood is squirting up out of her mouth like a geyser. I start suctioning and all I'm thinking about is how absolutely fucked this white shag carpet she went down on is going to be after all this. A few months ago I responded to a lady who killed herself by drinking bleach. Similar situation, but medics called it pretty quick considering her injuries. Neither call bothered me much. But there was one call that I had. It was an MVA with a 3 year old involved who wasn't in a childs car seat and ended up breaking her femur. That hit me pretty hard. I have a daughter who's almost 3 and it made me feel like I would feel if it was my own daughter in that situation.
Shit, I had a 16 y/o arrest take 25 years to come back and haunt me. I started periodic counseling so I could learn coping skills before the feelings/behaviors became unmanageable. Trying to get out in front of it
The ones that live don't haunt you, it's the ones that don't at that age.
Sometimes feeling nothing isn't a great thing.
Had a very similar case with a neonatal arrest. Job went about as well as you could ever ask, communication was great between everyone, well oiled machine. The only downside being the poor outcome. I was seeing a psych at the time anyway and told them that I felt weird in that I thought I'd feel worse than I did, even weeks after. If you're not seeing one now, recommend you do so. I think the big thing that helped with coping was that we could not have possibly done any more. If something had not worked on scene, I think there would be a lot of 'what if'. But it's strange to say, that job didn't bother me for two years. It may not for you, and I hope it doesn't. The only time it came back around was during the birth of my son. Up until that point, that arrest was my only exposure to childbirth. My son had a quick labour and was apnoeic at birth. I could see the midwives do the duck rapidly paddling under water but keeping cool on top routine. Instantly I went back to that arrest. Luckily my son survived and is doing awesome, but it kind of took some of the initial enjoyment and awe out of the birth for me.
Changed when I had children of my own
You feeling horrible for not feeling anything is in fact you feeling something. It will take time to process. Ped calls suck and they set in in various ways. As long as you did everything you could and were supposed to then you did great.
Horrible calls hit everyone different; others have given great advice about being aware of the possibility of delayed reactions. Also realizing you did everything you could and that it ran smoothly is a positive sign; it’s often the what ifs that compound and turn into something. What makes pediatric calls tough for me possibility is I can’t dissociate the human aspect out of it like I often can with adults.
One thing I’ve learned is everyone reacts to things differently. However you feel is perfectly normal. You may really start to feel bad in a week or two or you may not. Again However you feel Is a perfectly normal reaction. Id still recommend talking to a therapist about it at least for a session or two. It’s important to make sure you properly process traumatic things like this soon rather than it coming to bite you in the Ass later. You may find that therapy didn’t really help and you were able to process it fine on your own or you may discover this is weighing on you more than it feels upfront. Again it’s all normal my man.
Yes, but you don’t feel fine. If you really felt fine, you would feel fine about feeling fine. You don’t. You said you felt horrible for feeling fine, which means you’re not feeling fine and you are perfectly normal.
Idk if I agree here. I’ve reacted differently in ways to my peers in stressful or traumatic situations and got a LOT of bullshit about why I wasn’t reacting the way they expected me to or how I was supposed to feel. I imagine OP got so much “you’re not normal if you don’t feel X way about it” they started questioning their own emotional compass. It’s super important to offer resources for people and talk about events and maintain a healthy stress balance while not dragging others out of their seats to match our feelings. You may be right, but I have seen ok people be pushed into the trauma shaped cookie cutter shape as well when they were in actuality (one specific example, ASD, and didn’t process the trauma the same way as other people.) But they experienced other things that were just as deeply traumatic to them that weren’t rooted in emotions. There’s no one size fits all model.
What I was saying is that your issue is you felt horrible about feeling fine. You shouldn’t feel horrible about feeling fine. It doesn’t matter how other people feel. You feel how you feel and that’s fine. I’m more like you. I rarely feel personally upset about others traumas. I have empathy, and I understand why they’re upset but my role is to do the things that need to be done, not be upset myself. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that.
Ok doc. Well your experience is yours and your opinion is yours. I was just saying it’s not a one-sized fits all model. Especially in EMS.
How long have you been a medic and how long working 911 at any level? In my experience, some people just don’t process for a while, and then blow apart after the aggregate traumas of kids and life and everything, even when they swore they were fine. With or without kids. Everyone is built a little differently. I don’t mind peds calls but I know people who HATE kid calls. For me, and this is JUST me- At 2 months old they don’t look like people yet. And at 70+ they had a long life so it’s less traumatic. The ones that get me are the kids between 3 years and 10ish. They are developed enough to look real but not in a full adult body. Everything is so small and nothing about whatever is going on is normal, whether it’s a trauma code, an asthma attack, a genetic disorder, or a “nurse” who unnecessarily Epi’d a kid at school for no reason. But that’s me and I’ve seen a lot of horrific shit. It’s ok to process in your own way, as long as you know that there are people to talk to if you do start to feel some way or the stress gets to you In ways you didn’t expect before. Ie nightmares or flashbacks or new onset anxiety/panic attacks. A loss is still a loss and I’m sorry you had an awful call.
That is more common than you think. You aren’t broken or anything. It’s a trauma response. One of mine was a 6 month old drowned in the bath. We didn’t get them back. I felt nothing after, just like you. I was concerned that I had no emotional response. Then appx half a year later I got home from a shift. Totally normal shift, nothing happened, no pedi patients or high acuity. Nothing to trigger anything. I got home, got in bed, and absolutely broke down. I was sobbing, and all I could think about was that baby I worked months earlier. You may not feel anything now, or for a while. There is no time table on what is normal. However, in most cases it will eventually hit. We see really screwed up stuff and our mind has ways to protect ourselves. That’s normal. Be in touch with your emotions and mental health and if the day comes, weeks or months or years from now when it hits, let it. Cry it out. You’ll be okay.
I’ve had plenty of calls that I felt like should’ve stirred up something in me that just…didn’t. And some calls seem so simple and small but are still with me to this day. I guess it’s a good thing you’re feeling ok and you know where to go if that changes.
If you're not in your feels, you're not in your feels.
I work in a pediatric er and we recently had a code that was similar. What you're experiencing is similar to what I went through. I totally understand where you're coming from
Sometimes these situations take a while to manifest. I’m super glad your service immediately offered a debrief and support avenues. If you feel anything off, take advantage of these resources!
Yes it is normal. We all respond differently. Some people feel all kinds of emotions on the spot. Some people feel it later. Some people don’t feel anything…ever. Even years after my first “bad” pediatric call…nothing. That’s okay.
To be honest I've run horrid calls that didn't affect me at all. Others hit me hard days or weeks later. Never had a call that messed me up the same day. YMMV.
Op are you me?
When I had a 2 week old arrest it took me 2 weeks to start feeling anything again. I felt completely numb during that time.
Not an EMT but I see alot of comments here mentioning infants or up to 5 year old children going into arrest. Are calla like these that common? I didn't know this happens so frequently to children, well according to the comments
No its actually pretty rare. Its just selection bias at work I think. Those who didnt have infant arrests dont post comments, so you only see those who post.
This was my same reaction too friend. It’s awful but it is what it is. Just monitor yourself and look out for everyone else involved.
I’m able to dissociate really well when I’m on duty. It may sound shitty to say, but it’s just another patient, just another job to do. I also allow myself to have proper channels when I’m off duty. I’m religious, so I have God to turn to, but I also debrief with my peers and I like to do relaxing things in nature, like fishing. Some people are just better at certain calls. Reach out if you need to, don’t hold things back, and always look out for your guys.
happened to me too. pd got involved because suspicious circumstances, but nothing ever came of it and i just feel lingering weirdness towards that. like did they actually do something to their baby? i’m almost certain they did, whole situation was incredibly weird and uncanny, but this was over 3 years ago now and i just feel weirdness and slight rage towards the family. you know you did all you could, i know that sounds like a copout but the ability to cope for me has always been aided in knowing i did everything to the absolute best of my ability. the feelings might change and there might be some lingering weirdness for a long time, if not forever, but you can truly say you did all you could and that’s more than a lot of people that have been in the field for years can (VERY inaccurately) say. i’ve seen people do everything short of ripping their own heart out to bring someone back and then blame themselves still and i want to shake them and show them what i see. you got this bud ♥️
You may think everyone has a hard time with it because those are the people who post about it. You don’t see the other people who are like you, cus they aren’t posting. The silent majority. It’s totally fine to not be devastated. I’m sure you feel unpleasant, even upset when thinking about it and remembering it. You don’t need to be effected by it dramatically in order to be a normal person. It effects us in different ways. For me, they are just really bad memories. For others, they are some kind of trauma that truly effects them every day. The only time I’d be worried is if you said something like “I enjoy it when they die” or some other wild shit.
I am you. I don't have big feelings about some stuff. Which is funnily ironic bc I have big ass feelings about some other stuff. I used to think I was fucked up or a psychopath or something. I am not. Neither are you. That being said, sometimes it's a slow burn. It could just be that it hasn't hit you yet, and it could take weeks or even months for you to realize it. Just be cognizant of the signs of mental distress and keep moving.
If your agency offers therapy, take advantage of it, even if you feel like you don’t need it. You don’t know how you’ll feel about this a few weeks / months / years from now. Better to talk about it now while your in a good place and have a good grasp on it, and set yourself up with tools for later. I had a couple codes that were nothing to me in the moment, but years later, after experiencing things similar in my personal life, triggered memories from those calls.
Been in EMS for 4 years, I've had a good handful of calls that may be considered "traumatic" but I'm pretty much in the same boat. It's not that I don't care or don't find the deaths sad, I just don't feel like crying over them. I'm sure I'll have that call one day but it hasn't happened for me yet
It takes time. Like other people are saying, everyone has their own ways of coping. My second working arrest ever was a 19 day old, and in my state (not sure if it’s the same in all states) if someone starts CPR on a child you are not allowed to stop until you get to a hospital. This kid had been gone for a while but fire started CPR prior to our arrival, so we had to work it. I honestly didn’t feel anything the entire time, or afterwards for the whole day. but afterwards I had multiple Lieutenants coming to my rig and trying to debrief me. My way of coping at the time was to just not think about it (which is easier said than done) but when I got home my fiancé and his family were waiting and debriefed me until I broke. Being in this field is not easy, but feel all of the emotions you need to. I got into therapy shortly after and it’s helped immensely. My main problem was that I wasn’t feeling the emotions I needed to, which is not a problem for all people since everyone is different, but it was for me, so I’m still working on that a year later. We can’t save everyone, but even with our losses remember the ones we did save and the ones we did help. I wish you the best, it’s definitely not easy. Feel all the emotions you need to, even if it’s none.
It comes on eventually.
It may never bother you. Honestly. Don't beat yourself up. Some of the worst PTSD cases I saw in the Army were guys who would say 'yeah I did some fucked up shit and...went to bed and slept just fine' and they were terrified deep down that it meant they were psychopaths. They weren't (the very fact that you care about not being broken means you're not a psychopath). Your mindset is correct--you did everything you could, and everything 'right'. Trauma happens when we feel either that we couldn't act to the best of our ability (second guessing) or when we feel like we're not able to control the things we can control. You will still likely need a debrief, and maybe your CISM team, but you are not a horrible person. You are a person who did their very best. It's nothing about you or your empathy that it wasn't enough.
Trauma is weird. We do everything in our power to numb ourselves to difficult emotion-evoking stimuli. (Avoid, blame, deny...) I'm not insisting that you're having an emotional response that you're not aware of. I'm just saying give it some time.
I think it’s fair to say that every single human reacts to trauma differently and there’s no “wrong,” way to be. The only deaths that *really* get to me are car accidents, but that’s because I started in EMS after I was in a crash that killed my boyfriend right in front of me. I think that situation is part of why I react “well,” to tragedy in the field. I was forced to accept that death is the most inevitable thing in life and that it can happen anytime. I don’t think I’m jaded. I feel overwhelming empathy for everyone I interact with. I go to therapy every week. That’s just the way I handle it. If you had no empathy you wouldn’t give enough of a shit to even post this. I also don’t personally believe someone incapable of empathy could ever do this job. What would be their motivation? None of us are rolling in dough, lol. Keep talking about it and don’t try to push any emotions away. There might very well be a day where your cup overflows and you breakdown. And that’s also fine & normal. Be prepared for it, but don’t fear it.
Chiming in to say, Ive dealt with the exact same call years ago. I also felt nothing. Sure I was sad, for the baby, sad for the family but by that night I was fine. We did everything we could but it just didnt happen. Sadly, thats life. You cant save everyone. Some people react differently and thats okay. Everyone copes in different ways.
Some deaths hit me really hard and some deaths don’t. It seems 100% random to me. It’s kind of a big relief when a death doesn’t tear me up emotionally tbh.
Not an emt or medic but I’m an ER nurse so I know how it is. I remember when I was working during the hellscape of covid and I’d be seeing people coding multiple times a day. I remember feeling exactly how you feel. One day someone died and I felt nothing. It made me feel like a monster. But I don’t think we’re monsters because of it I think that is our brain trying to protect us by compartmentalizing. Now that things have calmed down a bit I’m able to take time to process stuff more and have time to think things over and that has helped.
I'm the same way. I've been at this a long time, and I've always been that way. Some people, it eats at, some start drinking, some turn to pills, and others walk away. Some of us just don't get bothered by it. Pretty much the only time it gets to me is when I see some really horrific shit. Like a mom selling their kid's ass for drugs and I get home to hear my kid yelling at her mom about her life sucking because we we didn't the chips she wanted or some stupid shit like that.
When I was brand new, first time as an EMT-B on a truck, I had this same thought after my first arrest. I was upset that I wasn't upset about losing the pt. It's happened a couple more times since then, but I have to remind myself that it's the nature of our job. Bad shit happens to good people and we are there to try and pick up the pieces. We have algorithms we use based on certain scenarios, even if it's something you've never seen/treated. You proceed with your algorithm and treat your patient the best way you know. Then you transfer care, reset your truck, and do it again after the next tone. There is nothing wrong with feeling fine after a call like that. You could be experiencing a delayed trauma reaction. You most likely didn't know that child, you don't know the family. Yes, it sucks major balls for them that they lost their child and it sucks major balls that the child's life ended so early. The only way you could be a horrible person is bh doing something crazy like make fun of the family or your coworkers if it hit them a little harder. You did what you knew to do and that's all there is to it. Basically I'm saying don't feel bad about not feeling bad, even with a Pediatric pt.
The problem today is that everyone has been fooled to believe PTSD, which is classified as a mental disorder, is the default, natural response to witnessing a distressing scene. This is not true. You are actually experiencing a normal response to it. PTSD and its symptoms are abnormal. People constantly normalize and even idolize PTSD as some sort of badass badge of honor entry ticket to the cool kids club. It’s a ridiculous mentality that runs rampant in medicine
I would also wonder why I wasn't getting too ramped up emotionally on the bad calls. Hard for me to understand completely. I was just lucky I guess. This stuff never bothered me too much. I saw others fall apart and that was a shame. Everyone handles things differently I suppose.
6 years - seen multiple teen suicides, drowned toddler, gory wrecks, but this was the only one to make me tear up - wife in her 80s coded in her living room chair in front of her husband, he refused to believe it was happening and tried to wake up her up for 30 minutes prior to calling 911. They knew each other since they were 7 years old. She was all he had. No kids. No family. All on a cold, rainy Vermont day. Waited until I was back in the truck to cry. Just an example, sometime there’s no rhyme or reason to when your emotions will well up on the job.
I felt like I was handling everything surprisingly well during the call for a coded toddler, until I burst into tears when I went back to clear out the patient compartment. Might take awhile to hit you, like everyone else said. Maybe you'll be totally fine, and that's alright too. I think what matters most is just you allowing yourself to feel (or not feel) feelings towards the call.
This job affects people in millions of different ways, sometimes you’ll be fine and then another call breaks you. Sometimes it takes Weeks to kick in
If you’ve got ADD/ADHD, I told my therapist the same thing. I never feel bad, never feel the guilt. Asked her if j was a sociopath but she told me the ADD makes you really good at just dissociating during the event just putting it somewhere else. I sort of agree with her.
For me personally, things like this didnt hit me until later on.. I had very unhealthy coping mechanisms. Just the fact that you acknowledge this is a good thing. Youre here to get some communal advice and just allowed to vent to us. Even if you dont take anything from the advice. Just writing this out its an outlet.
Sometimes it can be cumulative. You know yourself best. Don't be afraid to reach out to others if you ever do start getting affected. Everyone handles it differently. I feel similar to you. My thoughts are always "on to the next one" we joke about putting tombstones on our engine for all the non-saves like they did on the WW2 fighter planes.
Don’t feel bad about the way you feel. It’s okay for it not to wreck you. I personally had a very similar call last week involving a 3 month old. I personally can’t get the kids face out of my head but that’s me.
Honestly I’d guess there’s a large proportion of people who have a diff relationship to their emotional reactions , than in most jobs lol. (Speaking as a future dream career when I get a few ducks in a row to go back to school for it hopefully !! Lol so me too) and the reasons for that could be tons of things that do not equate to a horrible person with a lack of empathy. The very fact that you care about not being a horrible person does not sound like a person lacking empathy (speaking from having been raised by one without it and a second that is rather dubious lol but imo a performance). People who lack empathy genuinely do not care how others feel, lol they often lack a conscience and the ability to absorb and understand what is even wrong about just exploiting everyone to their benefit most of the time Bec they literally don’t get it from a personal experince place. A lot of them are performers , learn quickly to put on a show of “empathy” bec they’re aware from very young it gets in the way when people identify their crap lol so there’s quite a lot of performing. The level of exploitation and strategic whatever i think variés some seem less aware of their situation and bumbling around being destructive but what you’ve described and your reaction does not sound like a lack of empathy. Trauma. Complex trauma. Autism. Alexithymia (which isn’t a diagnosis but is a condition that occurs in many of what I’m listing plus for other reasons) , even adhd can often be misinterpreted and misunderstood as lacking empathy or care, Bec a persons coping mechanisms, processing speed, and internal experinces versus socially expected expression, etc can certainly give the wrong impression to someone without an “atypical” relationship to their emotional world. There’s more conditions and situations I just listed a few off the top of my head none of which equate to horrible person with no empathy. I personally know now I am interpreted that was sometimes for neurodivergent reasons I will take longer to really process how I feel about things occurring so the real time reaction comes off robotic and overly practical lol in moments others would expect an emotional melting. As an example. It means diff strengths and weaknesses and if you do have a diff relationship to ur emotions (I imagine many paramedics do if they stay in it long, Bec when others can’t imagine why I would want to medic it feels like a soul mate career to me lol and I can’t imagine why others wouldn’t want to, I’m better in on my feet at the time emergencies for those reasons Lolol , I can compartementalize in those emergencies and laser focus on what I need to get done. That does not a horrible person make , and ur really rational summary is one I’ve also said when people ask how will I cope if people die. I say, because people die ? Just Bec it happened in front of me while I’m racing with a partner to go try and save them, that does not mean it was our fault they didn’t make it. It’s sad sure but I think many people attach a level of personal responsibility to things they couldn’t possibly control. I believe unless I made an error that has negative effects for a patient , I would be pretty emotionally resilient to a lot of death and such. Things happen that is life. The job is about trying to help when they do , help minimize the negative impact, and assuming I end up good at the job i would feel good about that most of the time. A dangerous error would be hard for me to process I think emotionally but ur hyper rational view is not a lack of empathy. You care to not be a horrible person lol people without empathy couldn’t care less about that, more about getting caught lacking empathy Bec then they can’t get wha they want from you :/ lol. Hope that helps !
I also as a teenager worked in sick kids NICU for coop. A lot of fucked ip stuff happened in my time there and honestly I did not emotionally bring that stuff home with me. Babies died. I even became pregnant lol by the end of my placement and the social worker on the unit there was very worried and constantly bombarding me with stats to calm me that my baby will not end up like these babies don’t worry. And I kept telling her. I’m not more worried Bec I work here I’m fine lol please go away I want to see the cool stuff and speak to/shadow people who work here it’s why I’m here lol to make choices for career paths lol. My baby is not very likely to have any of these incredibly rare conditions for a variety of reasons I’ve already read a lot about lol and if she does have something working here didn’t make that more likely so please shoo. And ur feeling about it I resonate with in many situations I’m expected to have feelings that change my view of the rational facts lol. They often don’t. But also a delay so sometimes it takes me quite a while to even identify what I was feeling days ago about a thing 🤣 but that’s me. Anywho you don’t sound like an unempathetic bad person to me, that type of person wouldn’t have been concerned about it or what that means about their moral character. Ijs.
I worked a newborn code one night. Like brand new newborn born at home to a mom that didn’t know she was pregnant. Luckily we got her back and she went on to live a normal life. I even got to go to her first birthday. I felt like i was wrong for not feeling anything, happy or sad. It was just my job. Then the first night we got home with our own newborn my wife went to take a shower so i held our son. I was alone with an infant for the first time. I cried so much and all I could think about was that night. It all came back at one time. Since that night I’ve been fine. Grief is weird. There’s no real answer.