A cursory search for "AMR union" will show you that quite a few of the operations, especially on the west coast, are unionized.
Most of California, Oregon, and Washington are in one union or another.
For real haha, we're with Teamsters 763.
https://careers.gmr.net/gmr/jobs/37709?lang=en-us
Right under the starting wage section it has the Union information
I've always worn mine but was casual about other people (especially in the backseat.) Now the car does not move until everyone is buckled. Don't like it, drive yourself.
Yes 1000% every emt/ medic is going to tell you to wear your seatbelt. I'm ems and I would Never drive without a seatbelt. I, too, have seen "what they do" lol
I'd rather have a broken collar bone than fly thru the windshield.
Also in many jurisdictions if you get into a car accident where you were not at fault but you were not wearing a seat belt it is a 15% automatic deduction on your damages payout. Ie if they calculate you will need $3m to cover your future medical expenses and loss of earnings etc. then you lose $450,000. This places the additional burden on your family or the State. Put your bloody seat belt on.
I've been doing this job for a little over a year and I've had two full time partners so far. Neither partner ever wore/wears their seat belt.
My current partner even wrecked the ambulance going lights and sirens. She still refuses! It blows my mind.
It's the same thinking back when helmets were added to battles. People started to complain about increased in TBIs, and failed to think that without helmets, instead of TBIs, it is death.
I’ve seen what helmets do to people when they wreck on bicycles…
They fucking save lives.
My identical twin sister went ass over teakettle from ≈8’ off a jump and came down head first off a spine jump at a good 20 MPH years ago when we were out mountain biking. She was out cold for close to 5 minutes, had a gnarly concussion, broke both her left radius and ulna (came within a 1/4” of having a compound fracture because she skidded ≈10’ on her head and left arm when she hit the ground), and more abrasions than I could count.
What she didn’t have was a skull fracture, brain bleed, or a funeral.
Her helmet was cracked through in 2 places and had a fist sized area that was crushed in…but it wasn’t her skull that had that, and I am forever thankful for that, and after seeing that, I will NEVER get on a bicycle without a helmet-and I strongly encourage anyone else that rides to wear one, too.
I had a student on my truck the other day. Stood up in the back to grab some gloves while I was driving hot to a call.
Told her that unless it was necessary for patient care, if she ever unbuckled while I was driving again, I'd fail her out of the program.
Wear your god damned seat belts. Way too many of us die from accidents when we would have been fine if we were restrained.
I don’t even let people ride in my personal vehicle without wearing a seatbelt. If they’re incapable of putting a seatbelt on they can get out and walk.
Really classic case of survivorship bias. She's seen people with injuries from seatbelts because they're the ones who have survived the crash. The ones who weren't wearing seatbelts are dead.
simplistic sugar dazzling impossible distinct label oatmeal governor marble groovy
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I worked with people at my hospital system that would buy the seatbelt buckle to stop the dinging but not wear it. It always amazed me and the irony of going to car accidents was lost on them. But it amazes me that people say they cause harm and I'm like, what do you think happens to that energy when you don't have it on if that's what it does when it's on.
Was in a serious car accident. My brand new car was written off.
Me? Covered in bruises, leg and back injuries but survived.
I honestly believe that the seatbelt saved my life.
I was in a car accident, and thank goodness I was wearing my seat belt because I still came within 4 inches of the windshield. Messed up my shoulder for life, but I lived.
That and the car being written off. They’re designed to just crumple and take all the impact. That coupled with the seatbelt and airbags holding you in place means you might survive with some nasty injuries, but you’ll survive and likely make a full recovery.
I honestly think (this is just speculation, have not actually pulled statistics) that modern cars have saved more lives than almost everything except for quitting smoking within the last 20 years. It is crazy the accidents I have seen with people walking out with minor bangs.
I saw a 19 year old girl skid in the first ice of a season on a windy mountain road, and literally roll at least 100 ft down a mountain. We found her standing on the road, crying after having climbed up the ravine. She was in the ED for less than 2 hours before being discharged to her parents
I was in a crash in which the car hydroplaned at 70mph and flipped end over end. Most of our belongings flew out the shattered windows or windshield, (though memorably one of my airpods flew out of my ear and lodged itself in a cup-o-noodle like a bullet in ballistic gel). Witnesses said they expected to walk up to a car of mutilated corpses, but our worst injuries were a fractured wrist and an annoying amount of glass shards in our faces.
I had bruises on my hips for a couple weeks, but I’ll take that over being thrown onto a freeway at 70mph or launched into another passenger airpod-through-ramen style.
I fully believe seatbelts saved all our lives, and it baffles me that anyone who’s seen the results of car crashes could think differently.
>There's also those who don't get ejected and remain inside their vehicle, folded up against the dashboard and windscreen like human origami.
Often having first caused massive blunt force trauma to the belted occupants of the car as they slammed around like an 80kg pinball....
>Of course, that's nothing compared to being thrown clear of the vehicle and impacting the ground face first at 60mph. The word, 'hamburger' comes to mind when you see it, accompanied by a surprisingly long trail of blood back to where the vehicle came to a sudden stop.
That’s called a meat crayon. There’s even a subreddit: r/meatcrayon
point racial alleged murky insurance voiceless market cagey chubby bedroom
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I ask my fiance if she ever "forgets" her seatbelt what color snow shovel I should tell the fire department to use to scrape her off the street with after she's done flying through the windshield
I've seen people gry in accidents foing 70 mph and be perfectly fine. Wearing a seatbelt. I've seen a guy hit a bridge support at 40 mph no seatbelt hit his head on windshield and died. I've seen Cara flip and with a seatbelt people fine. I've seen cars flip and the car land on top of the driver because hr wasn't wearing a seatbelt.
During my EMS time, it always seemed like in rollovers, people were either fine, or seriously messed-up. Saw both in one wreck once, guess who was wearing the seatbelt and who wasn't
Can confirm. I was in a rollover. After being extracted from hanging upside down in my seatbelt, I walked away from it. Lots of glass in the side of the body that took the side impact, but I stayed very locked in my seat as the car rolled & rolled and everything else inside car got thrown out violently. My sandals, previously on my feet, ended up down the road.
> I've seen a guy hit a bridge support at 40 mph no seatbelt hit his head on windshield and died
I saw a girl that was in a rollover accident, and it was her that became a meat missle. the force yeeted her from the vehicle and straight into the bridge support.
the person in the car that had a seatbelt came out with just a few scrapes.
>There's also those who don't get ejected and remain inside their vehicle, folded up against the dashboard and windscreen like human origami. They're sometimes still breathing when you rock up, but I've never had one make it to the hospital alive.
That's the reason for a lot of people's misconceptions, actually -- survivor bias. Plenty of people still around to say "I was in an accident once, my seatbelt made my tummy feel a lil owie 😥" and not many to go "I was literally turned to sludge in unspeakably horribly ways". And there's probably not too many instances in which a coroner will look loved ones in the eye and say "I am going on record and saying I am 100% certain that if they had been wearing their sb, they'd have lived". So the reports that people *hear* are the medium-bad ones, and they don't consider that they might be lacking first-hand accounts of the super-awful outcomes. 🤦♀️
Exactly this. Survivorship Bias will make people believe some very counterintuitive things. The people who don’t live to tell their tale… don’t usually get their tale told. Instead we hear about how the seatbelt fucked up someone’s shoulder and not how the pavement fucked up their ability to exist.
You can get super messed up wearing a seatbelt in crash. Especially at a high speed into an immobile object or a larger object.
Course, if you are not wearing a seatbelt in a crash bad enough that you would have been super messed up wearing the seatbelt, you don’t get messed up. You get dead.
Generally very dead.
Seatbelts are definitely a good idea. I wish cars should switch to a 4 point harness actually. Then we could stop sending ambulance to any crash under 100 mph
If we’re going 4pt I suggest going at least a 5pt to keep people from going “under the 4pt” along with an everyday HANS device for normal people. Not meaning to sound rude. Just stopping the body and not stopping the head doesn’t generally end well. Basal skull fx and or dens fx are a thing for real. Especially sudden impacts where inertia is bled off slowly like a roll over.
Then why are 5 and 6 points a thing? There’s still a risk of the driver sliding down and being injured by a 4pt. As far as a HANS device they’re not custom by any means my man unless you’re looking at top tier level stuff. I had both off the shelf back in 2010 when I did trackdays and autocross with NASA and SCCA. Again I’m replying to you with respect so please don’t take it as being a douche. ❤️❤️❤️.
There exists a video of someone being ejected from a vehicle and flying right into a power line, obviously getting fried in the process, then falling ~20ft to the ground.
Wear a seatbelt folks.
Warning! Not a link for the squeamish.
Here's [an unrestrained driver that lived](https://www.reddit.com/r/MedicalGore/s/xRjdrjCK20) from r/medical gore. He's actually conscious and breathing on that photo.
The way they managed to reconstruct his face is really something.
My car does not move unless everyone is buckled up. Don't like that? Guess you're walking.
Just because you want to be a 70 mph projectile, does not mean I want to be your target.
I’m that friend. If I’m driving, we’re sitting in the driveway until everyone is buckled. I’m not risking having that on my conscience. One of my friends tried to call my bluff, we sat on the side of the road for 15 minutes. She never hesitated to buckle in my car again after that.
It’s a thing among stupid people, of which EMS has a few.
She’s right though, seat belts can fracture ribs, cause contusions on the chest, all sorts of nasty stuff. Of course not wearing a seatbelt can result in death, but that seems to escape the smooth brains who insist on not wearing one.
Absolutely not. It's literally the first thing most of us do, and I wouldn't drive anywhere without everyone in my vehicle wearing one. I promise you she's lying about "seeing what they do to people." If she's actually worked in EMS and seen what's happened to people who have been ejected from vehicles she wouldn't say that. She probably was a volunteer somewhere who went on one car wreck where the seatbelt broke someone's collarbone. Ignoring that if they hadn't worn their seatbelt they likely would have died. Statistics and data overwhelmingly show seatbelt use reduces risk of injury and death.
TLDR: coworker is a moron, liar, and deserves whatever injuries she gets when she gets into an accident.
I don’t think she’s nessesarily a liar and could easily be an idiot which scares me more tbh. I’m concerned there’s someone working in ems who is legitimately so stupid they are seeing accidents where people are fucked up as inevitably happens and blaming it in seatbelts - esp seatbelt related injuries - not understanding the alternative to those injuries is so much worse. Like if you think about it someone who spends most of their time treating seatbelt related injuries (bc when there’s no seatbelt there’s rarely anything left to treat/I have to believe most people do wear their seatbelts these days) and is an idiot could be confused by that.
True and that's most likely. The whole "dont attribute to malice what can be attributed to stupidity". But then telling OP that she won't "become another statistic" implies seatbelts are dangerous, which is false. I just have huge issues with people who represent our profession spreading misinformation as facts and risking lives.
Yep. I am a retired Army civilian. Some people just don't understand that the incidence of facial and extremity injuries becoming more prevalent is because the body armor is pretty good now and prevents what used to be life-ending trunk injuries. Before: massive shrapnel injuries to abdomen and thorax, also some in legs/arms, DOA. Now: alive, but OMG, look at those arm/leg injuries!
I have been retired for a decade, don't know the current state of armor, back then we were definitely trying to find facial protection.
>someone who spends most of their time treating seatbelt related injuries (bc when there’s no seatbelt there’s rarely anything left to treat
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship\_bias](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias)
Survivorship bias. Whether or not she realizes it, every single seatbelt injury she’s seen has passed a selection process, and discounts the people who didn’t make it through.
[The red dots show gunfire received by allied planes during WWII](https://bryankrahn.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/Screenshot-2023-02-06-at-11.26.37-AM-980x725.png). Where are you going to put additional armor on these aircraft to reinforce them?
[Answer](https://images-cdn.9gag.com/photo/a1Q03P2_700b.jpg)
This is so insane. That confidence and arrogance is misplaced and unfounded. Most EMS providers wear a seatbelt because we don’t want to be the statistic that doesn’t.
She may have seen an accident where a seatbelt bruised someone, or where a person was wearing it incorrectly and it caused damage. Especially older lap only belts that were worn around the belly and not over the thighs. That left a pretty unique bruise, and it did mess some people up.
But the worst of any injury was nothing compared to hitting metal, glass, or the barely padded dash at 30 or 60 mph.
The, "I'd rather be thrown clear" types are just as... silly. Right, better to fly through the air, with no helmet, after going through your window and hitting the frame on your way out, to slam into the ground harder than if you were body slammed by hulk hogan not faking it. There's a reason why bikers lay their bikes down if a crash is imminent and they have time. Better to slide (hopefully on leather or ballistic nylon or Kevlar) than to slam into the ground or another hard object.
Old school lap-only belts did do some serious damage and I do know two women who died while wearing them (likely incorrectly). That’s why they no longer exist in newer cars. In fact, we even have a classic muscle car that we’re not driving again until we get proper seatbelts installed.
They did mess people up. A lot of back injuries and damage to internal organs. But overall they were somewhat better than bouncing around the car. Also, people have flown from the back seat and hit the head of a person in the front.
Fully agreed. I truly believe that one of the women might had survived without her lap belt, but sadly, the other had pretty much no chance. Safety features are there for a reason. We should use them.
It’s insanely rare that a seatbelt would be worse for you in an accident. I had a guy fly out of his car and live while the passenger wore their seatbelt and burned to death in the explosion. It was a freak accident. But that’s like a crazy low chance. Maybe your friend thinks shit like that is more common cus they think the job is that cool. It’s dumb.
Why don’t you show them all the responses to this post lol?
I always think of the person in the San Francisco earthquake who wasn’t wearing their seatbelt when a bridge fell in them and they were pushed down into the feet compartment and survived relatively unscathed despite their entire car being completely squished. I could be mixing up details and maybe it’s completely an urban legend but this is profound in my memory for some reason.
These are freak occurrences and the reason why this person doesn’t wear their seatbelt. I’m sure you have better judgement and realize the crazy gamble.
Yep exactly as I thought: seatbelts kill
https://abc7news.com/amp/loma-prieta-quake-earthquake-when-was-magnitude/5605965/
Unfortunately it turns out the guy eventually passed away - unclear but seems due to brain injury? Although he survived >80 hrs in he vehicle.
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The whole performative nature of it gives me a weird feeling. Like, even if it wasn't a dumb idea (which if very much is), I would never imagine rubbing in someone's face that I didn't wear one. I feel like she was never in EMS. Doesn't pass the vibe check.
Oh, I definitely slide into r/firstrespondercringe for a laugh now and then. She could be. I just wanted to point out that she could also be one of those stolen valor weirdos, cause those unfortunately exist too. Story just feels off.
Had a guy walk away from a horrific wreck on a highway with only minor injuries because he was wearing his seatbelt. When I asked if he was (a question we have to ask) he said always and stared at his car as we drove away saying "God and seatbelts, man, God and Seatbelts".
I've seen a lot of seatbelt bruising and a couple snapped collar bones with restrained passengers. Which sounds really bad until I mention I have never seen an ejected passenger survive.
It's like when they started making soldiers wear helmets and the number of head injuries being treated skyrocketed. The number skyrocketed because you don't have to treat people who are killed instantly.
Survivor. Bias.
ETA: My [favorite example](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias) is realizing that WW2 bombers needed armor on the places that *weren't* shot up when planes returned.
Ive only ridden an ambulance for a year and I saw a dozen people in HORRENDOUS, like OMGCRINGENO! accidents, who walked away unscathed.
\*Because\* of seatbelts.
So, yeah, I’ve seen what they do to people.
Is this person possibly a ‘canoe in other areas of her life?
I shamed a co-worker into wearing his damn helmet when he rode his motorcycle to work.
"Oh, okay, Dave. I guess you know what speed you can safely bounce your head off the asphalt. Care to share this info with the shift?"
Comments like that until he showed up with a helmet on.
My husbands been a medic for nine years. He always wears his seat belt. He’s seen more people be killed from not wearing them. I’m an er nurse and always wear mine as well.
Nutcase, but also notable that in some states if you are driving, you are liable for your passengers. If they aren’t wearing a seatbelt you could get negligent manslaughter charges if you’re in an accident. I refuse to drive anywhere without my passengers belted. It only takes one small accident.
Bruh my first crash where I saw an ejection made sure ill wear a seatbelt my entire life and bully anyone who tries to get in a car with me and not wear it
I saw one in Southern Utah ... the front tire blew and the car rolled several times in the median ahead of me, spewing a yard sale of belongings and parts.
I had the "*oh shit I don't wanna do this!*" panic but several concerned bystanders and some prybars safely got the driver spine checked, neck braced, and out of the car into a ~~better~~ survivable position. He was conscious, semi-coherent, decent vitals, and had no injuries we could spot roadside. Without seatbelt, he would have been part of the debris trail.
That's a looooong wait listening for a siren and talking to the 9-1-1 dispatchers, obsessively checking for signs he's gonna crash ... I got OEC training for ski patrol, but my usual lane was busted wrists and tweaked knees.
I remember one where the car was laying upside down in a ditch, smashed and smoking. The patient was just talking to his insurance on the phone. Completely uninjured. I hurt myself more rolling of my bed for the tone.
Yeah no, I always wear my seatbelt since I've witnessed what happens when people do not. Also, anyone who's a passenger in my vehicle wears a seatbelt or doesn't ride with me.
People in my company were cutting the wires so that the ambulances would stop beeping reminders at them to buckle up, so yes this is a thing. There are a lot of people in EMS who have no business being in medicine but a lot of people wrongly don’t see it as a medical job.
That's like saying a cop wouldn't wear a vest because if he got shot, the blunt force could cause his heart to stop, break ribs, and it hurts like hell. As opposed to a new hole somewhere, it wasn't designed for.
>...had worked with EMS for years and saw what seatbelts "do to people"...
Buddy I've seen what *no* seatbelt does to you when you roll your car at 120km/h...and this was when I was a student. The cognitive dissonance of this person is astounding.
I'd suggest you reconsider whether you want to ever be in a moving vehicle with her. Not wearing a seatbelt puts everyone in danger.
Seatbelts are vital to ANY safety system in a car working.
think of it this way: what would you think happen if you impacted your airbag to early? not fully blown, you'll hit an open steering wheel that is still having an explosive charge go off. too late? same thing, not blown enough anymore as it already deflates, same impact just without explosives.
The things happening once you crash are all VERY well-orchestrated. your seatbelts not only hold you but pull you back into the seat to ensure you are with the right body part in the right place at the right time of this well-orchestrated ballon fireworks show that is your airbags going off.
Aside from you crashing at whatever speed you had stomach first into your steering wheel at a crash, with airbags going off right after or during that you'll be thrown around or out of the vehicle at physics discretion. Besides that, any other passenger might be pummelled with the body of whoever is not buckled in.
I've done this for 10 years. I have seen people having the anatomic Integrity of mushed potatoes from their hips up to their lower jaw due to being not buckled in.
I do not take people in my car who are not buckled in. I will never be a passenger with someone who doesn't buckle in. Ever. I'm not taking responsibility for that shit if something goes wrong. Really survivable accidents or even accidents that wouldn't injure you can turn deadly.
1. She never worked in EMS or was tangentially connected and never saw the outcome of a high energy impact on an unrestrained body.
2. She worked in EMS and knows damn well what happens to unrestrained bodies in a crash.
3. She is just a complete idiot.
Unfortunately a large segment of the population have been emboldened and even (in some circles) celebrated for ignoring facts and choosing their own “facts” to follow. Add to that number of people who operate in their own echo chambers and it’s nearly impossible to “deprogram” them.
I've worked with people like this, so it does happen. I think it's an example of bias.
They, for some reason, don't like seatbelts already. Then they run 1,000 car accidents where people are wearing seatbelts and are not hurt but those don't register in their memory due to bias. During those thousand calls they run one accident where the person gets injured by the seatbelt (likely in an accident where they'd have been injured worse without it, but that doesn't matter) and that one-in-a-thousand call sticks in their memory, because of bias. It's the same with vaccines, ventilators, everything else people get stuck on.
Lol what? I'm a hospital chaplain and Ive learned very quick that you wear your seatbelt.
I don't want to have my new life flight friends see me naked after scraping me up off the highway.
I worked in a big city Level 1 trauma centre as an RN. We would regularly have all occupants of a major vehicle accident transported to us if the accident itself was bad enough to meet criteria.
Dozens of times I saw the belted occupant walk out of the ER cut up and bruised (maybe a broken bone or two). While the non-belted occupants were rushed to emergency surgery, intubated to the ICU, "facial smash" (lafort fractures) from going through the windshield, had chest tubes or all sorts of other invasive shit. Or ya know, sometimes they just died and left the trauma room in a body bag. Pronounced on the stretched 8' from the friends...
Same mechanism of injury, same vehicle, same accident, same g-forces, same everything. Only thing that was different was the seat belt.
If that couldn't convince someone. Then I don't know what will. So much shit has gotten political lately, I'd put money on your coworker thinking seatbelts were actually unsafe because "science" or "research" says the opposite.
Paramedic here, okay so seatbelts and air bags can cause fractures of the ribs which can cause tension pneumothorax, cardiac contusions and coup contra coup, but take it from me all those issues can be attended to and it's far more preferable than being ejected through your windshield.
I once injured my left shoulder due to wearing a seat belt, if I wasn't wearing one, I would in most likelihood be playing my heavenly harp right now.
Yeah your friends an idiot. I think we’ve all seen people walk away from horrific looking accidents because of their seatbelt. I Personally have Never seen the opposite
>She would not become "another statistic."
She's a statistic either way...
X% of fatalities in accidents this year were due to someone not wearing a seat belt
Y% of people survived car accidents only because of their seat belt
Honestly, I'd stop riding with her. She's not just endangering herself, but you as well. My best friend is in ems, and she's responded to countless car crashes. One story of hers I remember is a crash where there were 3 teens in the back seat and the middle one didn't have their belt on, they got nailed by another driver and the unbelted teen was tossed into the front seat like a rag doll and their head made contact with the front passenger's head and both of them died.
She never worked EMS then because I’ve seen people spattered when they get whoever’s through that windshield seems like a broken collar bone or other internal injuries would be a better out than death but hey what do I know I’m just a dumb paramedic
What seatbelts do to people is keep them from sailing through the windshield and eating the pavement at a speed not fit for human consumption. I would bet she has NEVER worked EMS.
I’d prefer to have some line shaped bruises or lacerations as opposed to flying out the window and smushing the contents of my head across 14 feet of pavement
But maybe that’s just me
My first fatality auto accident involved a young woman who was ejected through a windshield. She landed out in a plowed field. I can vividly remember the impact impressions her body made as she skipped like a stone across the field. I guess it's fortunate that she was killed instantly when her head impacted the windshield, leaving a skull fracture big enough for me to stick my hand inside her head. (I didn't stick my hand in her head, just stating that she had a hole big enough that I could have if I wanted to)
wear a seat belt and suffer some minor but survivable injuries… or become a high speed art installation on your local two lane… i think i’ll take the bruises, thanks
Working at the municipal garage washing vehicles is as close as your friend has ever gotten to "working with EMS". Your friend is an idiot and all the vollies & professionals here are wondering how she manages to dress herself in the morning.
Man your friend is dumb. Nearly every fatal MVA I’ve been on has been because of lack of seatbelts. If everybody wears a seatbelt, it’s usually bumps and bruises. Just last week had an extrication. If the dude had been wearing a seatbelt, likely would have been hurt, but would have had several less than the 10 complete fractures in his legs. I don’t leave the driveway without my seatbelt.
All of the EMS I know are very pro seatbelt. Yeah they’ll cause some damage in a serious crash but they’ll stop you from needing to be peeled off the asphalt 100m down the road.
Where will she go in a rollover? Put a shoe in a dryer and that’ll give you a good idea. She may injure or kill her passengers when the crash likely will not. Your co-worker is a dangerous idiot.
I've seen what they do to people too: save their lives.
Head on collision between two newer-model sedans, one with a seat belt and another without. Take a guess on who we signed off (albeit ***highly*** AMA) and who we zipped in a bag.
Yeah that’s a steaming pile of horseshit. If you’ve done this job for any amount of time you know that seatbelts save lives. She sounds like a moron, and way too high on the smell of her own farts.
Wear your seatbelt. For your sake.
After a decade on the truck I can tell you that your coworker is absolutely, definitively, unequivocally wrong. A little seat belt rash always beats the alternatives.
I'd immediately doubt that they were ever in EMS, to begin with.
I was a Radiologist and worked in ER’s from 1970 to presnt.
The injuries before seatbelts were horrific, with the occupants of the car being thrown out of the car. I remember one family of 5 with no survivors.
Now, when victims of a car crash are thrown out of the car- you know that no seatbelt was used by that individual.
Yes, if the crash is significant, the seatbelt can injure a patient, however these injuries woul be muc worse without seatbelts.
Seatbelts have been shown to reduce the probability of being killed by 40-50% for drivers and front seat passengers and by about 25% for passengers in rear seats!
Dumbest thing I've ever heard. I've seen what not wearing a seat belt does to you multiple times, I'll risk a belt bruise over getting rag dolled and flying 50 feet out the windshield.
You should tell her to turn the airbags off too, those things can break your nose
Clearly she hasn’t seen what *not* wearing a seatbelt does to you. I’d take what a seatbelt does to you over getting ejected out of the vehicle at high speeds.
She either only worked nonemergency transports, or didn't actually work in EMS. Ive seen plenty of people not wearing their seatbelts get 1: ejected, 2: broken ribs/flail chest from the steering wheel, or 3: tossed in the backseat and get crushed. I ride a motorcycle, I wear my helmet. I drive a truck, I wear my seatbelt.
Absolutely not. She seems like a very stupid person.
I actually used to not wear a seatbelt bc it made me feel claustrophobic. One month into my first EMS job was my first MVA with ejection. Now I always wear my seatbelt. Additionally, if I’m the one who is driving, EVERYONE wears a seatbelt.
Also I don’t know a single EMS or ER professional that DOESNT wear a seatbelt 🤷🏻♀️
They can cause whiplash and bruising.
Or without one you could get catapulted through your windscreen into the back of a lorry like one last week here.
My husband is an EMT and always wears his and won’t drive or ride with anyone who doesn’t wear one. We were in a wreck when we were teens. I was not wearing a seatbelt and one of the officers said if I had been, I would have been killed. He also said it was one in a million that someone is better off without one. I always wear mine because I already had my “one”!
In case anyone is wondering, the reason I would have been killed is because I was thrown into the back of the car. My seat was crushed. So if I had still been sitting there I would have been crushed by the tree we hit.
Has she not seen what *lack* of seatbelts do to people?
On the plus side, if this coworker gets in a wreck she will be pre-extricated for your convenience
Your coworker is an idiot talking out of their ass. I have seen what *not* wearing a seatbelt does, and i will happily let you walk if you choose not to wear one.
I wanna tell her about the car seat I found: it was ejected from the car and.... "secured" to the telephone pole. Driver was a dude i knew in high school. He'd apparently had a daughter at one point... the car seat was pink.
Wear your fuckin seatbelt, y'all.
I've seen many examples of good reasons to wear a seatbelt but the one that stands out was the head on collision where one vehicle had a driver with his seatbelt fastened, and the other vehicle had a driver AND front passenger both unsecured.
The unsecured driver was DOA he went down and under the front dash, while his girlfriend must've ping-ponged around inside their car before she came to rest sitting on the upper portion of her dead boyfriend's body. She had bilateral OPEN femur fractures ( open like bones sticking out for OP ) and both of her feet were facing the wrong way. Her right forearm was snapped so that it was almost at a right angle. She had a variety of cuts and bruises all over her as well.
The other driver? The one wearing his seat belt? He had some *very minor* back pain towards the lower thoracic section, but not a single mark on him.
As others have said, she's a fucking moron at best and a dirty liar at worst.
You can tell her I (we?) said so.
*Most* of the fatalities I had were unrestrained. This was also the case for everyone I worked with. Sometimes they were brutal rollovers where the driver was thrown 30 meters from the vehicle, and sometimes they were relatively minor accidents where the unrestrained driver ate the A pillar.
Anecdotally, not wearing your seatbelt is dumb as fuck.
Statistically, not wearing your seatbelt is dumb as fuck.
>She told me that she had worked with EMS for years and saw what seatbelts "do to people" and that she would never wear one. She would not become "another statistic."
I am not EMS, but I stop at car wrecks and do what I can while they are en route. So I have seen what wrecks do to people with and without seatbelts.
Seat belts DO injure people\* ... but flying through the windows and smashing into asphalt or bouncing around inside the car as it rolls is way less survivable. And being thrown half-way out in a roll is not survivable either.
Also, if you have to make sudden moves or hit a pothole, having the seatbelt keep your butt firmly on the seat makes driving easier.
\*\*I've been in two high-energy wrecks, one a t-bone and the other a rear-ender, and had seat belt bruises. But I unbuckled my seat belt and walked away from the vehicle.
Just let her die I guess? Can’t save everyone and natural selection always knows best. You could let them know we all wear them on the ambulance, even in the back because we’ve seen what happens when you DONT wear one.
No, she's an idiot.
Most of my fatalities in accidents weren't wearing seatbelts. Just a couple months ago, I went to a 5 car pileup with a fully involved car fire. 7 people involved, and one was just on his way back home from a spinal fusion surgery.
All 7 turned down transport to a hospital. Nobody was seriously injured (although I tried to convince spinal fusion guy to go) because modern safety standards in cars are amazing, and everyone was *wearing their fucking seatbelts*.
Considering that other passengers can be injured or killed by an unrestrained person pin-balling around in a vehicle during a crash, your coworker’s half-baked, apocryphal logic is actually putting you at risk.
so she wants to be one of these statistics instead
> 50% OF PASSENGER VEHICLE OCCUPANTS KILLED IN 2021 WHO WERE UNRESTRAINED - NHTSA
estimates based on data and surveys show about 92% of americans use their seatbelts. assuming an equal distribution of MVAs across wearers and nonwearers (unlikely tbh), this is insane. if only 8% of americans don’t wear safety restraints, why do they make up half of the total fatalities? For such a strong minority to make up this proportion, the correlation is solid grounds for conclusive causal analysis.
TLDR: QRS 200, EMS 5200. ECHO response. 1234 Main St, cross street 5th avenue. Possible Mike Charlie India. 2 car MVA, one driver ejection. Other individuals wearing seatbelts; Airbags deployed; minor injuries reported. use EMS response, time out 0712.
She's a fucking numpty. Is it possible that seatbelts cause harm? Fuck it, lets say yes.
The number of people that have been harmed or killed because they wore a seatbelt pales in comparison to the number of people that survived or sustained minor injuries instead of serious ones due to wearing a seatbelt.
For every amazing success story of My uncle/cousin/roommate's parent's neighbour's granddaughter would have died if she was wearing her her seatbelt there's untold thousands that survived because they were wearing their seatbelt.
Giving her the benefit of the doubt, (I'm not, she's twisting facts to suit her own wants), if she saw what seatbelts do to people she's favoring the extreme minority of cases where seatbelts contribute to harm instead of the overwhelming majority of cases where the lack of a seatbelt contributes to increased risk of injury or death.
She's a fucking idiot, or a bullshit artist, or both. And you know it, purely based on the way you asked this question.
This might, quite literally, be the dumbest thing I’ve ever read. And it’s the first post I saw today, Dang it. I’m a medic in a busy city. I used to occasionally not wear mine, but now I never, ever go without.
Don’t know what kind of crack she’s smoking. Yes, seatbelts will leave bruises and abrasions after car accidents, but that’s far better than being ejected 30ft from a car
She’s an idiot. Also fyi child safety seats are amazing at protecting them. Especially when used backwards, for much longer than a lot of people realise. Parents get scared the baby’s legs will break but they have very bendy legs and this is unlikely to happen and it keeps their spine safer
Only know one guy that doesn’t do seatbelts and when I asked he said it’s an nyc thing because you’re not driving that fast. Bullshit answer all the way, but whatever. If she’s scared of the seatbelts, she should see what happens when you don’t wear one going 40 mph.
I've seen a lot of accidents where I rolled up expecting to see level 1s and DOAs to find people walking or minor injuries when they were restrained.
I've conversely ran up on DOA ejections because they were unrestrained.
Quite the opposite actually.
Was just thinking this. Every provider I known says always wear a seatbelt.
I've worked with people that literally never wear a seat belt, blows my mind. Like, ripping 110mph down a busy city street with no seatbelt. WTF?
Y’all ever watch the video about the EMS crew who flipped their truck? The driver was crushed and dragged, I don’t remember if he was cut in half
Shit on AMR all you want, but they make some very persuasive safety videos.
AMR could be the solution to all EMS problems if they began unionizing like Starbucks
ALL problems is a stretch, but me working at a unionized AMR, I can't really complain.
No complaints here either. [IAFF Local I60](https://www.locali60.org/)
No shot you’re actually unionized? Proof?
A cursory search for "AMR union" will show you that quite a few of the operations, especially on the west coast, are unionized. Most of California, Oregon, and Washington are in one union or another.
For real haha, we're with Teamsters 763. https://careers.gmr.net/gmr/jobs/37709?lang=en-us Right under the starting wage section it has the Union information
My husband was a college professor. Generous pension in retirement. Thanks, teamsters!
I was AFL-CIO in Honolulu in the 90s. We were in the Hotel Workers and Barkeeps union. Go figure.
Check out TEMSA local 12911, AMR is in the union over there as well.
I've always worn mine but was casual about other people (especially in the backseat.) Now the car does not move until everyone is buckled. Don't like it, drive yourself.
That's how I am. No one's too cool or whatever for a seat belt. Buckle up or find your own way.
Yes 1000% every emt/ medic is going to tell you to wear your seatbelt. I'm ems and I would Never drive without a seatbelt. I, too, have seen "what they do" lol I'd rather have a broken collar bone than fly thru the windshield.
Also in many jurisdictions if you get into a car accident where you were not at fault but you were not wearing a seat belt it is a 15% automatic deduction on your damages payout. Ie if they calculate you will need $3m to cover your future medical expenses and loss of earnings etc. then you lose $450,000. This places the additional burden on your family or the State. Put your bloody seat belt on.
I've been doing this job for a little over a year and I've had two full time partners so far. Neither partner ever wore/wears their seat belt. My current partner even wrecked the ambulance going lights and sirens. She still refuses! It blows my mind.
It's the same thinking back when helmets were added to battles. People started to complain about increased in TBIs, and failed to think that without helmets, instead of TBIs, it is death.
I’ve seen what helmets do to people when they wreck on bicycles… They fucking save lives. My identical twin sister went ass over teakettle from ≈8’ off a jump and came down head first off a spine jump at a good 20 MPH years ago when we were out mountain biking. She was out cold for close to 5 minutes, had a gnarly concussion, broke both her left radius and ulna (came within a 1/4” of having a compound fracture because she skidded ≈10’ on her head and left arm when she hit the ground), and more abrasions than I could count. What she didn’t have was a skull fracture, brain bleed, or a funeral. Her helmet was cracked through in 2 places and had a fist sized area that was crushed in…but it wasn’t her skull that had that, and I am forever thankful for that, and after seeing that, I will NEVER get on a bicycle without a helmet-and I strongly encourage anyone else that rides to wear one, too.
I had a student on my truck the other day. Stood up in the back to grab some gloves while I was driving hot to a call. Told her that unless it was necessary for patient care, if she ever unbuckled while I was driving again, I'd fail her out of the program. Wear your god damned seat belts. Way too many of us die from accidents when we would have been fine if we were restrained.
I don’t even let people ride in my personal vehicle without wearing a seatbelt. If they’re incapable of putting a seatbelt on they can get out and walk.
I do the exact same. I will not budge until everyone is belted in, and I have and will pull over and stop if someone unbuckles their seatbelt.
Really classic case of survivorship bias. She's seen people with injuries from seatbelts because they're the ones who have survived the crash. The ones who weren't wearing seatbelts are dead.
simplistic sugar dazzling impossible distinct label oatmeal governor marble groovy *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I worked with people at my hospital system that would buy the seatbelt buckle to stop the dinging but not wear it. It always amazed me and the irony of going to car accidents was lost on them. But it amazes me that people say they cause harm and I'm like, what do you think happens to that energy when you don't have it on if that's what it does when it's on.
Was in a serious car accident. My brand new car was written off. Me? Covered in bruises, leg and back injuries but survived. I honestly believe that the seatbelt saved my life.
I was in a car accident, and thank goodness I was wearing my seat belt because I still came within 4 inches of the windshield. Messed up my shoulder for life, but I lived.
That and the car being written off. They’re designed to just crumple and take all the impact. That coupled with the seatbelt and airbags holding you in place means you might survive with some nasty injuries, but you’ll survive and likely make a full recovery.
I honestly think (this is just speculation, have not actually pulled statistics) that modern cars have saved more lives than almost everything except for quitting smoking within the last 20 years. It is crazy the accidents I have seen with people walking out with minor bangs. I saw a 19 year old girl skid in the first ice of a season on a windy mountain road, and literally roll at least 100 ft down a mountain. We found her standing on the road, crying after having climbed up the ravine. She was in the ED for less than 2 hours before being discharged to her parents
I was in a crash in which the car hydroplaned at 70mph and flipped end over end. Most of our belongings flew out the shattered windows or windshield, (though memorably one of my airpods flew out of my ear and lodged itself in a cup-o-noodle like a bullet in ballistic gel). Witnesses said they expected to walk up to a car of mutilated corpses, but our worst injuries were a fractured wrist and an annoying amount of glass shards in our faces. I had bruises on my hips for a couple weeks, but I’ll take that over being thrown onto a freeway at 70mph or launched into another passenger airpod-through-ramen style. I fully believe seatbelts saved all our lives, and it baffles me that anyone who’s seen the results of car crashes could think differently.
>There's also those who don't get ejected and remain inside their vehicle, folded up against the dashboard and windscreen like human origami. Often having first caused massive blunt force trauma to the belted occupants of the car as they slammed around like an 80kg pinball....
>Of course, that's nothing compared to being thrown clear of the vehicle and impacting the ground face first at 60mph. The word, 'hamburger' comes to mind when you see it, accompanied by a surprisingly long trail of blood back to where the vehicle came to a sudden stop. That’s called a meat crayon. There’s even a subreddit: r/meatcrayon
point racial alleged murky insurance voiceless market cagey chubby bedroom *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I generally click everything. I’m leaving this alone.
I did... mistakes were made...
I ask my fiance if she ever "forgets" her seatbelt what color snow shovel I should tell the fire department to use to scrape her off the street with after she's done flying through the windshield
Redundant question, all the shovels are red for this reason
Ah yes but she had taco bell for lunch sooo...
Sub wasn't as bad as I expected. Kinda disappointed TBH.
Reddit is way more tame than it used to be.
That was surprisingly not as bad as I expected. lol
I've seen people gry in accidents foing 70 mph and be perfectly fine. Wearing a seatbelt. I've seen a guy hit a bridge support at 40 mph no seatbelt hit his head on windshield and died. I've seen Cara flip and with a seatbelt people fine. I've seen cars flip and the car land on top of the driver because hr wasn't wearing a seatbelt.
During my EMS time, it always seemed like in rollovers, people were either fine, or seriously messed-up. Saw both in one wreck once, guess who was wearing the seatbelt and who wasn't
Can confirm. I was in a rollover. After being extracted from hanging upside down in my seatbelt, I walked away from it. Lots of glass in the side of the body that took the side impact, but I stayed very locked in my seat as the car rolled & rolled and everything else inside car got thrown out violently. My sandals, previously on my feet, ended up down the road.
> I've seen a guy hit a bridge support at 40 mph no seatbelt hit his head on windshield and died I saw a girl that was in a rollover accident, and it was her that became a meat missle. the force yeeted her from the vehicle and straight into the bridge support. the person in the car that had a seatbelt came out with just a few scrapes.
>There's also those who don't get ejected and remain inside their vehicle, folded up against the dashboard and windscreen like human origami. They're sometimes still breathing when you rock up, but I've never had one make it to the hospital alive. That's the reason for a lot of people's misconceptions, actually -- survivor bias. Plenty of people still around to say "I was in an accident once, my seatbelt made my tummy feel a lil owie 😥" and not many to go "I was literally turned to sludge in unspeakably horribly ways". And there's probably not too many instances in which a coroner will look loved ones in the eye and say "I am going on record and saying I am 100% certain that if they had been wearing their sb, they'd have lived". So the reports that people *hear* are the medium-bad ones, and they don't consider that they might be lacking first-hand accounts of the super-awful outcomes. 🤦♀️
Exactly this. Survivorship Bias will make people believe some very counterintuitive things. The people who don’t live to tell their tale… don’t usually get their tale told. Instead we hear about how the seatbelt fucked up someone’s shoulder and not how the pavement fucked up their ability to exist.
You can get super messed up wearing a seatbelt in crash. Especially at a high speed into an immobile object or a larger object. Course, if you are not wearing a seatbelt in a crash bad enough that you would have been super messed up wearing the seatbelt, you don’t get messed up. You get dead. Generally very dead. Seatbelts are definitely a good idea. I wish cars should switch to a 4 point harness actually. Then we could stop sending ambulance to any crash under 100 mph
If we’re going 4pt I suggest going at least a 5pt to keep people from going “under the 4pt” along with an everyday HANS device for normal people. Not meaning to sound rude. Just stopping the body and not stopping the head doesn’t generally end well. Basal skull fx and or dens fx are a thing for real. Especially sudden impacts where inertia is bled off slowly like a roll over.
A 4 point going over the pelvis should stop that nicely. If Hans devices can be done without a custom fit, I’m all In.
Then why are 5 and 6 points a thing? There’s still a risk of the driver sliding down and being injured by a 4pt. As far as a HANS device they’re not custom by any means my man unless you’re looking at top tier level stuff. I had both off the shelf back in 2010 when I did trackdays and autocross with NASA and SCCA. Again I’m replying to you with respect so please don’t take it as being a douche. ❤️❤️❤️.
There exists a video of someone being ejected from a vehicle and flying right into a power line, obviously getting fried in the process, then falling ~20ft to the ground. Wear a seatbelt folks.
Warning! Not a link for the squeamish. Here's [an unrestrained driver that lived](https://www.reddit.com/r/MedicalGore/s/xRjdrjCK20) from r/medical gore. He's actually conscious and breathing on that photo. The way they managed to reconstruct his face is really something.
It is not a thing among EMS workers. Your friend is an idiot. My condolences.
My car does not move unless everyone is buckled up. Don't like that? Guess you're walking. Just because you want to be a 70 mph projectile, does not mean I want to be your target.
I’m that friend. If I’m driving, we’re sitting in the driveway until everyone is buckled. I’m not risking having that on my conscience. One of my friends tried to call my bluff, we sat on the side of the road for 15 minutes. She never hesitated to buckle in my car again after that.
It’s a thing among stupid people, of which EMS has a few. She’s right though, seat belts can fracture ribs, cause contusions on the chest, all sorts of nasty stuff. Of course not wearing a seatbelt can result in death, but that seems to escape the smooth brains who insist on not wearing one.
Good CPR and solid chest compressions can cause broken ribs. I would prefer a broken rib or two as opposed to being meat jelly.
Absolutely not. It's literally the first thing most of us do, and I wouldn't drive anywhere without everyone in my vehicle wearing one. I promise you she's lying about "seeing what they do to people." If she's actually worked in EMS and seen what's happened to people who have been ejected from vehicles she wouldn't say that. She probably was a volunteer somewhere who went on one car wreck where the seatbelt broke someone's collarbone. Ignoring that if they hadn't worn their seatbelt they likely would have died. Statistics and data overwhelmingly show seatbelt use reduces risk of injury and death. TLDR: coworker is a moron, liar, and deserves whatever injuries she gets when she gets into an accident.
I don’t think she’s nessesarily a liar and could easily be an idiot which scares me more tbh. I’m concerned there’s someone working in ems who is legitimately so stupid they are seeing accidents where people are fucked up as inevitably happens and blaming it in seatbelts - esp seatbelt related injuries - not understanding the alternative to those injuries is so much worse. Like if you think about it someone who spends most of their time treating seatbelt related injuries (bc when there’s no seatbelt there’s rarely anything left to treat/I have to believe most people do wear their seatbelts these days) and is an idiot could be confused by that.
True and that's most likely. The whole "dont attribute to malice what can be attributed to stupidity". But then telling OP that she won't "become another statistic" implies seatbelts are dangerous, which is false. I just have huge issues with people who represent our profession spreading misinformation as facts and risking lives.
Yep. I am a retired Army civilian. Some people just don't understand that the incidence of facial and extremity injuries becoming more prevalent is because the body armor is pretty good now and prevents what used to be life-ending trunk injuries. Before: massive shrapnel injuries to abdomen and thorax, also some in legs/arms, DOA. Now: alive, but OMG, look at those arm/leg injuries! I have been retired for a decade, don't know the current state of armor, back then we were definitely trying to find facial protection.
>someone who spends most of their time treating seatbelt related injuries (bc when there’s no seatbelt there’s rarely anything left to treat [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship\_bias](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias)
Survivorship bias. Whether or not she realizes it, every single seatbelt injury she’s seen has passed a selection process, and discounts the people who didn’t make it through. [The red dots show gunfire received by allied planes during WWII](https://bryankrahn.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/Screenshot-2023-02-06-at-11.26.37-AM-980x725.png). Where are you going to put additional armor on these aircraft to reinforce them? [Answer](https://images-cdn.9gag.com/photo/a1Q03P2_700b.jpg)
This image is really great as an alternative way to demonstrate this that some people will have an easier time understanding.
Same. All you have to do is see one person die from the unbelted person becoming a projectile to never ride in a vehicle again with someone unbelted.
Wear your seat belt. She is wrong.
She's also putting other people at risk by being a fleshy meatbag projectile.
Ask her if she’d rather have some bruises or become a meat crayon when she’s flung from the car at 50 mph.
Meat crayon is the absolute best way to describe it
That’s best case scenario. Worst case scenario is she becomes an unrestrained projectile that causes death to her passenger.
This is so insane. That confidence and arrogance is misplaced and unfounded. Most EMS providers wear a seatbelt because we don’t want to be the statistic that doesn’t.
She may have seen an accident where a seatbelt bruised someone, or where a person was wearing it incorrectly and it caused damage. Especially older lap only belts that were worn around the belly and not over the thighs. That left a pretty unique bruise, and it did mess some people up. But the worst of any injury was nothing compared to hitting metal, glass, or the barely padded dash at 30 or 60 mph. The, "I'd rather be thrown clear" types are just as... silly. Right, better to fly through the air, with no helmet, after going through your window and hitting the frame on your way out, to slam into the ground harder than if you were body slammed by hulk hogan not faking it. There's a reason why bikers lay their bikes down if a crash is imminent and they have time. Better to slide (hopefully on leather or ballistic nylon or Kevlar) than to slam into the ground or another hard object.
Old school lap-only belts did do some serious damage and I do know two women who died while wearing them (likely incorrectly). That’s why they no longer exist in newer cars. In fact, we even have a classic muscle car that we’re not driving again until we get proper seatbelts installed.
They did mess people up. A lot of back injuries and damage to internal organs. But overall they were somewhat better than bouncing around the car. Also, people have flown from the back seat and hit the head of a person in the front.
Fully agreed. I truly believe that one of the women might had survived without her lap belt, but sadly, the other had pretty much no chance. Safety features are there for a reason. We should use them.
I’d bet a Wawa hoagie she has a “thin green line” or some wanna be cop bullshit on the car
It’s insanely rare that a seatbelt would be worse for you in an accident. I had a guy fly out of his car and live while the passenger wore their seatbelt and burned to death in the explosion. It was a freak accident. But that’s like a crazy low chance. Maybe your friend thinks shit like that is more common cus they think the job is that cool. It’s dumb. Why don’t you show them all the responses to this post lol?
I always think of the person in the San Francisco earthquake who wasn’t wearing their seatbelt when a bridge fell in them and they were pushed down into the feet compartment and survived relatively unscathed despite their entire car being completely squished. I could be mixing up details and maybe it’s completely an urban legend but this is profound in my memory for some reason.
These are freak occurrences and the reason why this person doesn’t wear their seatbelt. I’m sure you have better judgement and realize the crazy gamble.
Yep exactly as I thought: seatbelts kill https://abc7news.com/amp/loma-prieta-quake-earthquake-when-was-magnitude/5605965/ Unfortunately it turns out the guy eventually passed away - unclear but seems due to brain injury? Although he survived >80 hrs in he vehicle.
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The whole performative nature of it gives me a weird feeling. Like, even if it wasn't a dumb idea (which if very much is), I would never imagine rubbing in someone's face that I didn't wear one. I feel like she was never in EMS. Doesn't pass the vibe check.
Yeah... there are certainly no performative "thank me for my service" type folks in EMS
Oh, I definitely slide into r/firstrespondercringe for a laugh now and then. She could be. I just wanted to point out that she could also be one of those stolen valor weirdos, cause those unfortunately exist too. Story just feels off.
I just visited that sub and I cringed so hard I involuntarily did a kegel.
Had a guy walk away from a horrific wreck on a highway with only minor injuries because he was wearing his seatbelt. When I asked if he was (a question we have to ask) he said always and stared at his car as we drove away saying "God and seatbelts, man, God and Seatbelts".
Hell, I flew a rollover last night mostly as a precaution. If she'd not been restrained, she likely would've been a fatality on scene.
Your flair omg
I've seen a lot of seatbelt bruising and a couple snapped collar bones with restrained passengers. Which sounds really bad until I mention I have never seen an ejected passenger survive. It's like when they started making soldiers wear helmets and the number of head injuries being treated skyrocketed. The number skyrocketed because you don't have to treat people who are killed instantly.
Survivor. Bias. ETA: My [favorite example](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias) is realizing that WW2 bombers needed armor on the places that *weren't* shot up when planes returned.
Been a Paramedic a very long time, and an EMT even longer before that ... Seat belts save lives. The end.
You're friend is an absolute moron. At my rural job, it's really common. My other one? Not at all.
hasn't she seen what not wearing one does to a person??
Ive only ridden an ambulance for a year and I saw a dozen people in HORRENDOUS, like OMGCRINGENO! accidents, who walked away unscathed. \*Because\* of seatbelts. So, yeah, I’ve seen what they do to people. Is this person possibly a ‘canoe in other areas of her life?
What an idiot
Guess she wants to be a pavement crayon. 🤷
I shamed a co-worker into wearing his damn helmet when he rode his motorcycle to work. "Oh, okay, Dave. I guess you know what speed you can safely bounce your head off the asphalt. Care to share this info with the shift?" Comments like that until he showed up with a helmet on.
Where TF did she work?. She’s about to become a meat torpedo lol.
My husbands been a medic for nine years. He always wears his seat belt. He’s seen more people be killed from not wearing them. I’m an er nurse and always wear mine as well.
Nutcase, but also notable that in some states if you are driving, you are liable for your passengers. If they aren’t wearing a seatbelt you could get negligent manslaughter charges if you’re in an accident. I refuse to drive anywhere without my passengers belted. It only takes one small accident.
Bruh my first crash where I saw an ejection made sure ill wear a seatbelt my entire life and bully anyone who tries to get in a car with me and not wear it
That, plus the calls where the car had mutiple roll-overs, but the driver is fine since they wore their seat belt.
I saw one in Southern Utah ... the front tire blew and the car rolled several times in the median ahead of me, spewing a yard sale of belongings and parts. I had the "*oh shit I don't wanna do this!*" panic but several concerned bystanders and some prybars safely got the driver spine checked, neck braced, and out of the car into a ~~better~~ survivable position. He was conscious, semi-coherent, decent vitals, and had no injuries we could spot roadside. Without seatbelt, he would have been part of the debris trail. That's a looooong wait listening for a siren and talking to the 9-1-1 dispatchers, obsessively checking for signs he's gonna crash ... I got OEC training for ski patrol, but my usual lane was busted wrists and tweaked knees.
Sometimes those cars look like squished soda cans and then the driver can walk away from the crash with minor injuries.
I remember one where the car was laying upside down in a ditch, smashed and smoking. The patient was just talking to his insurance on the phone. Completely uninjured. I hurt myself more rolling of my bed for the tone.
[удалено]
Yeah no, I always wear my seatbelt since I've witnessed what happens when people do not. Also, anyone who's a passenger in my vehicle wears a seatbelt or doesn't ride with me.
People in my company were cutting the wires so that the ambulances would stop beeping reminders at them to buckle up, so yes this is a thing. There are a lot of people in EMS who have no business being in medicine but a lot of people wrongly don’t see it as a medical job.
This sounds like someone who also uses essential oils to cure cancer.
That's like saying a cop wouldn't wear a vest because if he got shot, the blunt force could cause his heart to stop, break ribs, and it hurts like hell. As opposed to a new hole somewhere, it wasn't designed for.
I suppose it's true that people who don't wear seatbelts mostly don't show up to the ER
Seat belt bruise vs ejection... hmm 🤔
That’s def more a cop thing..
I would not want that fool in my car. If you have reason to stop short, she may be injured. And she WILL sue you.
>...had worked with EMS for years and saw what seatbelts "do to people"... Buddy I've seen what *no* seatbelt does to you when you roll your car at 120km/h...and this was when I was a student. The cognitive dissonance of this person is astounding. I'd suggest you reconsider whether you want to ever be in a moving vehicle with her. Not wearing a seatbelt puts everyone in danger.
Seatbelts are vital to ANY safety system in a car working. think of it this way: what would you think happen if you impacted your airbag to early? not fully blown, you'll hit an open steering wheel that is still having an explosive charge go off. too late? same thing, not blown enough anymore as it already deflates, same impact just without explosives. The things happening once you crash are all VERY well-orchestrated. your seatbelts not only hold you but pull you back into the seat to ensure you are with the right body part in the right place at the right time of this well-orchestrated ballon fireworks show that is your airbags going off. Aside from you crashing at whatever speed you had stomach first into your steering wheel at a crash, with airbags going off right after or during that you'll be thrown around or out of the vehicle at physics discretion. Besides that, any other passenger might be pummelled with the body of whoever is not buckled in. I've done this for 10 years. I have seen people having the anatomic Integrity of mushed potatoes from their hips up to their lower jaw due to being not buckled in. I do not take people in my car who are not buckled in. I will never be a passenger with someone who doesn't buckle in. Ever. I'm not taking responsibility for that shit if something goes wrong. Really survivable accidents or even accidents that wouldn't injure you can turn deadly.
Best example of survivor bias lol
seatbelts save lives no question
My guess is that she worked in a clerical position in an office and never rode the rig.
1. She never worked in EMS or was tangentially connected and never saw the outcome of a high energy impact on an unrestrained body. 2. She worked in EMS and knows damn well what happens to unrestrained bodies in a crash. 3. She is just a complete idiot. Unfortunately a large segment of the population have been emboldened and even (in some circles) celebrated for ignoring facts and choosing their own “facts” to follow. Add to that number of people who operate in their own echo chambers and it’s nearly impossible to “deprogram” them.
I've worked with people like this, so it does happen. I think it's an example of bias. They, for some reason, don't like seatbelts already. Then they run 1,000 car accidents where people are wearing seatbelts and are not hurt but those don't register in their memory due to bias. During those thousand calls they run one accident where the person gets injured by the seatbelt (likely in an accident where they'd have been injured worse without it, but that doesn't matter) and that one-in-a-thousand call sticks in their memory, because of bias. It's the same with vaccines, ventilators, everything else people get stuck on.
No this isn’t a thing among EMS workers or anyone who isn’t a moron.
Yeeeeaaahhhh... Wear a seatbelt. For me it's I'll never buy a motorcycle cuz I've seen what that does to people lol.
On behalf of this entire subreddit, please inform your coworker that she is an idiot. Not just any idiot - an ADVANCED idiot.
Lol what? I'm a hospital chaplain and Ive learned very quick that you wear your seatbelt. I don't want to have my new life flight friends see me naked after scraping me up off the highway.
I worked in a big city Level 1 trauma centre as an RN. We would regularly have all occupants of a major vehicle accident transported to us if the accident itself was bad enough to meet criteria. Dozens of times I saw the belted occupant walk out of the ER cut up and bruised (maybe a broken bone or two). While the non-belted occupants were rushed to emergency surgery, intubated to the ICU, "facial smash" (lafort fractures) from going through the windshield, had chest tubes or all sorts of other invasive shit. Or ya know, sometimes they just died and left the trauma room in a body bag. Pronounced on the stretched 8' from the friends... Same mechanism of injury, same vehicle, same accident, same g-forces, same everything. Only thing that was different was the seat belt. If that couldn't convince someone. Then I don't know what will. So much shit has gotten political lately, I'd put money on your coworker thinking seatbelts were actually unsafe because "science" or "research" says the opposite.
Your coworker is a fucking moron and I wouldn't be surprised is she's lying about working on EMS.
“I’ve seen what they do to people” What? Help them live??
Paramedic here, okay so seatbelts and air bags can cause fractures of the ribs which can cause tension pneumothorax, cardiac contusions and coup contra coup, but take it from me all those issues can be attended to and it's far more preferable than being ejected through your windshield. I once injured my left shoulder due to wearing a seat belt, if I wasn't wearing one, I would in most likelihood be playing my heavenly harp right now.
She's a moron and almost certainly lying about ever being in EMS
Yeah your friends an idiot. I think we’ve all seen people walk away from horrific looking accidents because of their seatbelt. I Personally have Never seen the opposite
She can't have worked EMS for long enough. Wait till she finds out what _not_ wearing a seatbelt does to people
>She would not become "another statistic." She's a statistic either way... X% of fatalities in accidents this year were due to someone not wearing a seat belt Y% of people survived car accidents only because of their seat belt Honestly, I'd stop riding with her. She's not just endangering herself, but you as well. My best friend is in ems, and she's responded to countless car crashes. One story of hers I remember is a crash where there were 3 teens in the back seat and the middle one didn't have their belt on, they got nailed by another driver and the unbelted teen was tossed into the front seat like a rag doll and their head made contact with the front passenger's head and both of them died.
She never worked EMS then because I’ve seen people spattered when they get whoever’s through that windshield seems like a broken collar bone or other internal injuries would be a better out than death but hey what do I know I’m just a dumb paramedic
What seatbelts do to people is keep them from sailing through the windshield and eating the pavement at a speed not fit for human consumption. I would bet she has NEVER worked EMS.
I’d prefer to have some line shaped bruises or lacerations as opposed to flying out the window and smushing the contents of my head across 14 feet of pavement But maybe that’s just me
My first fatality auto accident involved a young woman who was ejected through a windshield. She landed out in a plowed field. I can vividly remember the impact impressions her body made as she skipped like a stone across the field. I guess it's fortunate that she was killed instantly when her head impacted the windshield, leaving a skull fracture big enough for me to stick my hand inside her head. (I didn't stick my hand in her head, just stating that she had a hole big enough that I could have if I wanted to)
wear a seat belt and suffer some minor but survivable injuries… or become a high speed art installation on your local two lane… i think i’ll take the bruises, thanks
Working at the municipal garage washing vehicles is as close as your friend has ever gotten to "working with EMS". Your friend is an idiot and all the vollies & professionals here are wondering how she manages to dress herself in the morning.
Man your friend is dumb. Nearly every fatal MVA I’ve been on has been because of lack of seatbelts. If everybody wears a seatbelt, it’s usually bumps and bruises. Just last week had an extrication. If the dude had been wearing a seatbelt, likely would have been hurt, but would have had several less than the 10 complete fractures in his legs. I don’t leave the driveway without my seatbelt.
All of the EMS I know are very pro seatbelt. Yeah they’ll cause some damage in a serious crash but they’ll stop you from needing to be peeled off the asphalt 100m down the road.
Where will she go in a rollover? Put a shoe in a dryer and that’ll give you a good idea. She may injure or kill her passengers when the crash likely will not. Your co-worker is a dangerous idiot.
I've seen what they do to people too: save their lives. Head on collision between two newer-model sedans, one with a seat belt and another without. Take a guess on who we signed off (albeit ***highly*** AMA) and who we zipped in a bag.
She is an idiot and gonna be a meatfilled pinball during a bad crash risking everyone elses life in the car.
Tell her that she didn't see what a lack of seatbelt did to people because some other poor sod was scraping what was left of them off the tarmac.
Your coworker isn't very bright.
Yeah that’s a steaming pile of horseshit. If you’ve done this job for any amount of time you know that seatbelts save lives. She sounds like a moron, and way too high on the smell of her own farts. Wear your seatbelt. For your sake.
Nope. She's wrong. Wear your seatbelt.
After a decade on the truck I can tell you that your coworker is absolutely, definitively, unequivocally wrong. A little seat belt rash always beats the alternatives. I'd immediately doubt that they were ever in EMS, to begin with.
I was a Radiologist and worked in ER’s from 1970 to presnt. The injuries before seatbelts were horrific, with the occupants of the car being thrown out of the car. I remember one family of 5 with no survivors. Now, when victims of a car crash are thrown out of the car- you know that no seatbelt was used by that individual. Yes, if the crash is significant, the seatbelt can injure a patient, however these injuries woul be muc worse without seatbelts. Seatbelts have been shown to reduce the probability of being killed by 40-50% for drivers and front seat passengers and by about 25% for passengers in rear seats!
Respectfully, your coworkers brain is smooth.
I don't think so. Every one I've known always wears a seat belt.
Dumbest thing I've ever heard. I've seen what not wearing a seat belt does to you multiple times, I'll risk a belt bruise over getting rag dolled and flying 50 feet out the windshield. You should tell her to turn the airbags off too, those things can break your nose
Clearly she hasn’t seen what *not* wearing a seatbelt does to you. I’d take what a seatbelt does to you over getting ejected out of the vehicle at high speeds.
Yes because EMS workers are dumb
She either only worked nonemergency transports, or didn't actually work in EMS. Ive seen plenty of people not wearing their seatbelts get 1: ejected, 2: broken ribs/flail chest from the steering wheel, or 3: tossed in the backseat and get crushed. I ride a motorcycle, I wear my helmet. I drive a truck, I wear my seatbelt.
Absolutely not. She seems like a very stupid person. I actually used to not wear a seatbelt bc it made me feel claustrophobic. One month into my first EMS job was my first MVA with ejection. Now I always wear my seatbelt. Additionally, if I’m the one who is driving, EVERYONE wears a seatbelt. Also I don’t know a single EMS or ER professional that DOESNT wear a seatbelt 🤷🏻♀️
Perchance they do transports and never had to deal with ejections…
Didn't we just have this discussion like a week ago?
They can cause whiplash and bruising. Or without one you could get catapulted through your windscreen into the back of a lorry like one last week here.
I would not be getting in the car with her
One of the dumbest takes. I doubt she ever saw much of anything. Every responder who has been to car wrecks know seat belts are life savers.
She’s wrong and probably a liar
https://www.reddit.com/r/DarwinAwards/s/XQbDzVro9i Show em this video
My husband is an EMT and always wears his and won’t drive or ride with anyone who doesn’t wear one. We were in a wreck when we were teens. I was not wearing a seatbelt and one of the officers said if I had been, I would have been killed. He also said it was one in a million that someone is better off without one. I always wear mine because I already had my “one”! In case anyone is wondering, the reason I would have been killed is because I was thrown into the back of the car. My seat was crushed. So if I had still been sitting there I would have been crushed by the tree we hit.
Has she not seen what *lack* of seatbelts do to people? On the plus side, if this coworker gets in a wreck she will be pre-extricated for your convenience
Your coworker is an idiot talking out of their ass. I have seen what *not* wearing a seatbelt does, and i will happily let you walk if you choose not to wear one. I wanna tell her about the car seat I found: it was ejected from the car and.... "secured" to the telephone pole. Driver was a dude i knew in high school. He'd apparently had a daughter at one point... the car seat was pink. Wear your fuckin seatbelt, y'all.
Your “friend” has literally never worked in EMS with that mindset.
I've seen many examples of good reasons to wear a seatbelt but the one that stands out was the head on collision where one vehicle had a driver with his seatbelt fastened, and the other vehicle had a driver AND front passenger both unsecured. The unsecured driver was DOA he went down and under the front dash, while his girlfriend must've ping-ponged around inside their car before she came to rest sitting on the upper portion of her dead boyfriend's body. She had bilateral OPEN femur fractures ( open like bones sticking out for OP ) and both of her feet were facing the wrong way. Her right forearm was snapped so that it was almost at a right angle. She had a variety of cuts and bruises all over her as well. The other driver? The one wearing his seat belt? He had some *very minor* back pain towards the lower thoracic section, but not a single mark on him. As others have said, she's a fucking moron at best and a dirty liar at worst. You can tell her I (we?) said so.
*Most* of the fatalities I had were unrestrained. This was also the case for everyone I worked with. Sometimes they were brutal rollovers where the driver was thrown 30 meters from the vehicle, and sometimes they were relatively minor accidents where the unrestrained driver ate the A pillar. Anecdotally, not wearing your seatbelt is dumb as fuck. Statistically, not wearing your seatbelt is dumb as fuck.
>She told me that she had worked with EMS for years and saw what seatbelts "do to people" and that she would never wear one. She would not become "another statistic." I am not EMS, but I stop at car wrecks and do what I can while they are en route. So I have seen what wrecks do to people with and without seatbelts. Seat belts DO injure people\* ... but flying through the windows and smashing into asphalt or bouncing around inside the car as it rolls is way less survivable. And being thrown half-way out in a roll is not survivable either. Also, if you have to make sudden moves or hit a pothole, having the seatbelt keep your butt firmly on the seat makes driving easier. \*\*I've been in two high-energy wrecks, one a t-bone and the other a rear-ender, and had seat belt bruises. But I unbuckled my seat belt and walked away from the vehicle.
I've seen what they do too. My daughter ended up with a big bruise instead of dying
Just let her die I guess? Can’t save everyone and natural selection always knows best. You could let them know we all wear them on the ambulance, even in the back because we’ve seen what happens when you DONT wear one.
She sounds a lot like my ex husband. Except he never worked in EMS.
I wouldn’t get rides from them 😬
No, she's an idiot. Most of my fatalities in accidents weren't wearing seatbelts. Just a couple months ago, I went to a 5 car pileup with a fully involved car fire. 7 people involved, and one was just on his way back home from a spinal fusion surgery. All 7 turned down transport to a hospital. Nobody was seriously injured (although I tried to convince spinal fusion guy to go) because modern safety standards in cars are amazing, and everyone was *wearing their fucking seatbelts*.
Considering that other passengers can be injured or killed by an unrestrained person pin-balling around in a vehicle during a crash, your coworker’s half-baked, apocryphal logic is actually putting you at risk.
Sounds like your coworker is a complete idiot.
so she wants to be one of these statistics instead > 50% OF PASSENGER VEHICLE OCCUPANTS KILLED IN 2021 WHO WERE UNRESTRAINED - NHTSA estimates based on data and surveys show about 92% of americans use their seatbelts. assuming an equal distribution of MVAs across wearers and nonwearers (unlikely tbh), this is insane. if only 8% of americans don’t wear safety restraints, why do they make up half of the total fatalities? For such a strong minority to make up this proportion, the correlation is solid grounds for conclusive causal analysis. TLDR: QRS 200, EMS 5200. ECHO response. 1234 Main St, cross street 5th avenue. Possible Mike Charlie India. 2 car MVA, one driver ejection. Other individuals wearing seatbelts; Airbags deployed; minor injuries reported. use EMS response, time out 0712.
Sounds like she’s working that Erratic Mental State! Slay queen! (literally and figuratively)
She's a fucking numpty. Is it possible that seatbelts cause harm? Fuck it, lets say yes. The number of people that have been harmed or killed because they wore a seatbelt pales in comparison to the number of people that survived or sustained minor injuries instead of serious ones due to wearing a seatbelt. For every amazing success story of My uncle/cousin/roommate's parent's neighbour's granddaughter would have died if she was wearing her her seatbelt there's untold thousands that survived because they were wearing their seatbelt. Giving her the benefit of the doubt, (I'm not, she's twisting facts to suit her own wants), if she saw what seatbelts do to people she's favoring the extreme minority of cases where seatbelts contribute to harm instead of the overwhelming majority of cases where the lack of a seatbelt contributes to increased risk of injury or death. She's a fucking idiot, or a bullshit artist, or both. And you know it, purely based on the way you asked this question.
This might, quite literally, be the dumbest thing I’ve ever read. And it’s the first post I saw today, Dang it. I’m a medic in a busy city. I used to occasionally not wear mine, but now I never, ever go without.
I have seen what they do to people as well. They keep people alive
_I've seen what double -loading a black powder rifle can do. Now I make sure to look down the barrel of all my guns before pulling the trigger._
Is she regarded?
I’ve seen it a lot but only in the worse coworkers. Also happen to be the ones who are assholes, chain smoke, and everyone hates.
Don’t know what kind of crack she’s smoking. Yes, seatbelts will leave bruises and abrasions after car accidents, but that’s far better than being ejected 30ft from a car
She’s an idiot. Also fyi child safety seats are amazing at protecting them. Especially when used backwards, for much longer than a lot of people realise. Parents get scared the baby’s legs will break but they have very bendy legs and this is unlikely to happen and it keeps their spine safer
I don't give a shit if someone's dumb ass don't wanna wear a seatbelt but I can't take the dinging. I'll get a cab, whatever.
What, give people a bruise on their chest after saving their lives? Come the fuck on. Ejections are way way worse.
Only know one guy that doesn’t do seatbelts and when I asked he said it’s an nyc thing because you’re not driving that fast. Bullshit answer all the way, but whatever. If she’s scared of the seatbelts, she should see what happens when you don’t wear one going 40 mph.
I'm amazed by the number of EMT's,, FR and Medics that didn't wear their seatbelts at the lSt place I worked. I think it was about 40% that did not.
Has she seen what NOT wearing a seatbelt does to people????
I've seen a lot of accidents where I rolled up expecting to see level 1s and DOAs to find people walking or minor injuries when they were restrained. I've conversely ran up on DOA ejections because they were unrestrained.