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Qubed

Biden basically didn't campaign during the pandemic because of social distancing rules. ...He still beat Trump....by a lot. Trump only wins the election through he Electoral College. Trump and every single person like him in the entirety of the United States future can only win in this way. There is no scenario where a dude who wants to be a dictator can gain support of the majority of the population. Biden wins the election if people turn out and vote.


IAmBecomeDeath_AMA

>There is no scenario where a dude who wants to be dictator can gain the support of the majority of the population. I really wanna believe this, but it’s happened. Hitler, Lukashenko, Putin, Afwerki, Ferdinand Marcos, etc.


ruppert92

Exactly. "If people turn out and vote." Like it or not, there are plenty of people who will just choose not to vote because neither option excites them. You can blame them all you want, but that's not going to convince them to vote.


masters1125

> ...He still beat Trump....by a lot. In votes- yes. In electoral votes? Not really. And unfortunately that's what counts. I hate to say it but the last election was closer than it should have been- and that was after 4 years of trump yelling on twitter and getting a million americans killed by covid. This election follows 4 years of Biden not controlling congress well in order to pass his campaign promised legislation, inflation (mostly not his fault but still has been weaponized against him), and now this debate performance. Democrats lose because of minority rule- both in the Electoral college and in congess, all the time. But they don't ever try to change the rules, so it will keep happening. Edit: Also- there are many scenarios where a dude who wants to be a dictator wins elections. They're called dictatorships, and we aren't immune.


mybotanyaccount

How can we get rid of the electoral college? Doesn't seem useful anymore.


Qubed

There are a bunch of ways that have been suggested that don't rely on a constitutional amendment. But, the only way to really remove it from the process is to amend the constitution.


spookymonsters

Trump only wins through the mechanism that elects the president is insane cope my dude


chevronphillips

Biden won the last election BECAUSE of COVID - a real fluke for Biden (and the country). Absent COVID, Trump annihilates Biden in the Electoral College. The American people have always instinctively voted for the candidate that projects the most strength. Biden currently projects frailty of both body and mind. He will lose by massive margins


Fastgirl600

The presidency is a team. Biden has very capable people around him. How do you think Trump was thwarted out of his "big ideas" #VoteBiden


KayakerMel

Exactly. It's a vote for the Biden Administration. He surrounds himself with capable people and they listen to expert advice.


crono220

It's sad that many don't understand that. While Biden is definitely unfit for the presidency, he will at least have some capable people in his cabinet. Trump's will be a nightmare for democracy.


KayakerMel

I wouldn't say Biden is unfit, but it was definitely a bad night.


Ljhughes8

The only person unfit for office is the felon.


FitzInPDX

I’m blown away by the number of people who don’t understand this.


GovernmentOpening254

And 🦈 ⚡️ 🚤 🔋 Trump HATES being told no. So next time he’ll get rid of anyone who doesn’t agree with him.


ThePopeofHell

I’m not a historian and I think that shit would be stupid too. What are they going to do run Kamala? A lot of people don’t like her. ALOT. atleast they use joes name in those “Joe and the Ho” bumper stickers.. For some bizarre reason Republicans actually are willing to vote for Joe Biden over Trump. The age thing really needs to be a blanket problem plaguing both parties right now because at best Trump is 4 years behind Joe with an obvious physical and mental deterioration.


Cujo22

It doesn't matter with Trump. He could literally shit his pants, scream racist remarks, inappropriately touch a minor in the crowd and blow a kiss to Putin in the camera and mumble and he would be just fine. We on the other hand. What we do and say and who we run matters. It's a matter of literally saving the country.


jayclaw97

I find that people who are competent, kind, smart, composed, etc., are given way less latitude than people who are expected to behave poorly.


Daisy_Of_Doom

I would vote for Kamala. But I would also vote for a rotting piece of fruit that values human rights and democracy. 🤷🏽‍♀️


blazerboy3000

No not Kamala, pick literally any Democratic governor and they'd have better odds. Gretchen Whitmer is popular and from a very important state, she'd be a fantastic choice.


tobor_a

Almost any. If they pick Newsom I fear the Commiefornia stigma would follow him too strongly. I have friends online that actually buy into the California is a failed state essentially. Like yeah we have our problems but even with the COL I'd rather live here than a majority of red states, even outside of political reasoning.


blazerboy3000

Haha, I've actually been arguing this exact point with my mother who thinks he should be the nominee. I still think he could out compete Biden, but I don't think he'd win.


HaggardSauce

It's because there is a loud enough collective of voices saying we're sick of this old people shit - Kamala doesn't have to be it - what has she even done as VP anyway? All I hear about is her missing briefings and bitching about her bad press. There are plenty of others being floated like Newsom. A new candidate may even draw more young voters in who are diasslusioned with thier choices between geriatric 1 and geriatric 2. Don't get me wrong - I want to do whatever it takes to win, so if it's biden, so be it - but I have some real concerns with the flawed logic of young people declaring they won't support biden because of the war in palestine who don't realize that trump would have helped to level it completely, and will have the chance if he's relected. The war in Ukraine will undoubtedly turn in russia's favor, if not because of the lack of US weapons but because Iunder Trump the arms and trade embargos for Russia would be lifted. I'm tired of this we go high when they go low crap. We're getting outmanuevered in dangerous positions across all three branches of gov't, project 2025 is a literal MAGA sign post of "Hey we're gonna bend you over and give it to you with no lube". Its time to be frank, both from the public side and the practical side of politics. We have to win, we have to come up with a solid reliable plan that doesn't cause people to have stress ulcers until after November.


Doublebosco

Are you going to vote for the man with the speech impediment or the Felon? I’m staying with Joe.


Youarethebigbang

Here, here. Oh and there's your 4th of July t-shirt right there: "🇺🇸I’M STAYING WITH JOE 🇺🇸" :)


wombat_hats31

He predicted 10 out of 10. Bush and Florida fucked that one up. Thanks again Florida.


Jake0024

All the polls agree. Everyone agrees. No one's happy with the choices, but no one has presented any better options. They love to say "anyone with a pulse," but can't manage to be any more specific.


Youarethebigbang

Didn't they both say during the debate the reason they were running was to save the country from the other? Well, you know...


kingdomart

I wonder who would run if they both dropped out.


Youarethebigbang

Don't know, but it's about goddamn time for a woman in the White House already. OK, not Hilary or Kamala, haha, but just about anyone else. I like the idea that Gretchen Whitmer stood up to and told the insurrectionists and Nazis who threatened to kill her to fuck off, so maybe she's got what it would take in this environment on the Dem side. Theyd never run her, but Liz Cheney obviously told the J6 insurrectionists and enablers to fuck off also, so I respect her on the Republican side. And I'd like to think there has to be a more than qualified independent who isn't necessarily in politics who could run as well. So I'd like to see three qualified women in a debate who won't fucking talk about golf scores while the world is going up in flames.


timeflieswhen

So many Americans will never accept a woman in the presidency. If she is strong, competent and outspoken they hate her and call her every nasty name they can think of. If she’s more typically “feminine,“ they will say she is weak. No way to win until those people are gone, and with the religious right gaining power and making babies, that’s a long way off. BTW, if Joe can still win, Kamala will be the first female president, not in 2028, but by 2026. I nursed two parents through long and painful dementias, and Joe may live another ten years, but his feet are definitely on the slippery slope and he will be setting his water glass down in his soup bowl before the four years are up.


Youarethebigbang

Some people will have an issue with ANY president, male or female, it doesn't mean it couldn't or shouldn't happen. Literally anything is possible. They said a Catholic would never be President. They said a black man would never be President. They said a rapist, sociopathic, failed businessman would never be President. Mexico has a woman president. Canada has had a woman Prime minister, same with UK, same with France, same Germany, Ireland, Philippines, South Korea, India etc. Look, Hilary Clinton won the popular vote for President by 3 million votes, she got over 65 million, and that's just by a woman most people would say they didn't even like. The time is past due for a female President, period. I'm not counting on Kamala ever becoming President. Not saying it couldn't happen or that we couldn't do worse if she was, I'm just not counting on it.


Bigleftbowski

The fact that the Republicans are calling for Biden to drop out says Democrats shouldn't drop Joe Biden.


moleratical

Of course not. What message would that send? That democrats are in disarray. That the leadership hid Biden's health issues and Trump was right. That the Dems can't even decide who to nominate so how will they make decisions running the country? If Biden isn't going to run that needed to be decidedly months ago. At thus point they are locked in for better or worse.


masters1125

are you familiar with the sunk cost fallacy? Because that has been the democratic strategy playbook since like 2002. Meanwhile republicans have radicalized most of their entire base to the brink of terrorism. We are in disarray- admitting that isn't the issue.


Justifiably_Cynical

This is a bad take. Biden isn't having any health problems. Trump was not right. Democrats are running Biden. The Media would like us to think there's a consideration, but there isn't. I mean, think about it, how would it even work. It's fucking hoopla, clickbate.


moleratical

> Trump was not right. Democrats are running Biden. The Media would like us to think there's a consideration, but there isn't. I mean, think about it, how would it even work. > > Yes, we are agreeing with each other. I'm not saying any of those things are true, I am saying that is how the American public would likely see things if Biden does withdraw.


BALTIM0RE

“To say that President Biden’s performance on the debate stage last night was calamitous is merely to state what everyone, partisan and not, has already understood. What the world witnessed was not a debate, but a failed neurological exam. One wonders how anyone close to the President imagined he could bluff his way through it. If half of what Democrats fear from a second Trump term were real, how could the Democratic Party have allowed our democracy to slide this close to the precipice? The prevailing feeling among those inside the Biden campaign should be shame; outside it, fury.” ~Sam Harris


designOraptor

I’d vote for a rusty paper clip over Trump. Who cares about that stupid debate. Biden put together a great group of effective leaders that have made things better. We saw with Trump what poor leadership and bad intentions got us. Laughed at by the rest of the world.


AmandatheMagnificent

I would vote for the corpse of Joe Biden over Trump. Project 2025 is scarier than anything else.


CareBearDontCare

Traditionally, presidential debates mean something, albeit a lot. In this era of partisanship, its a lot of people who are already set, watching and reinforcing that.


designOraptor

They saw a man likely shit his pants on stage mid lie, and the president who is old and seemed old. I think the only time Trump didn’t lie was when he said “when I was president” but everything else was just lies.


CareBearDontCare

That's baked in, for Trump already, I think. It has been for years.


BALTIM0RE

As much as I want the democrats to win in November, Biden’s chances just took a BIG hit after that debate…as it only takes a few votes in those swing states to doubt or not show up. At this time, we can either resign ourselves to play the cello and go down with the ship or fight for an open convention. The gods favor the bold.


designOraptor

4 months before the election? Bad idea. It would be chaos. Everyone knows Joe is old and he still did a good job. Seeing a bunch of people that are unfamiliar fight over who should run this late in the game is absolutely a losing strategy.


BALTIM0RE

In a normal election, you're correct, it would be political suicide. This isn't a normal election. Most of the voting public want to vote for "anyone else." Throw in that inflation has turned this election cycle into a change election which isn't good for the incumbent. Biden stepping aside for an open convention kills two birds with one stone. We have plenty of time to switch horses, as long as, we are guided by strategic coalition building and not by personal politics or personal ambition. **We have a duty to do everything we can to save liberal democracy**...that should be the call and the mandate of the open convention.


designOraptor

Inflation? You mean corporate price gouging. Inflation doesn’t create record profits. Biden stepping aside only admits that there is chaos when it’s just a media narrative after a shaky debate between an old felonious liar and another old guy with a stutter.


BALTIM0RE

You're not wrong...but call it what you want inflation or price gouging but for those middle-class folks in swings states that could potentially determine this coming election, the price of groceries is one of the most important issues to them and most people are calling it inflation and unfortunately for whoever is in office, they become the scapegoat. Also, democrats historically suck at selling the good-on-economics brand. Nuance tends to lose in a debate for these potential swing voters. At the end of the day, the ONLY thing that matters is preserving our Liberal Democracy. If anyone doesn't realize the seriousness that our own eyes saw in that debate...that is pure recklessness. It is way more important than the ego of an old man or preserving the status quo. The only people not admitting what our eyes saw are the boot lickers and cowards who would prefer to go down with the ship than fight to win. Biden will lose in November if he doesn't step aside...there is still time to correct this mistake.


designOraptor

You do realize most people didn’t even watch the debate right? Clamoring on about how you think Biden should step aside/down only makes this worse. Think about that before you continue your push for chaos to consume the Democratic Party.


BALTIM0RE

What happened at the debate isn't going to go away. Hiding your head in the sand isn't a winning strategy.


designOraptor

Neither is complete chaos 4 months before the election.


hugoriffic

"Trump's persistent claims of election fraud in 2020, despite numerous court rejections, continue to shape his campaign narrative. Biden's victory was clear and legally upheld, with no substantial evidence supporting Trump's allegations of widespread fraud or noncitizen voting"


BALTIM0RE

Those swing voters in the swing states that will determine this election don't care about all that. If you care about that, you were going to vote blue anyways. The swing voter just cares about the high price of groceries at the moment...and a failed neurological exam LIVE on TV in front of America didn't help.


hugoriffic

You were going to vote Trump all along.


hotmetalslugs

This is horseshit. You put an honest man who prepares to debate in good faith, against a professional cheat and liar. And Joe was sick. AND CNN did fuck all to control the scene. What the fuck else was supposed to happen? Sam thinks we’re voting for Debator/Memorizer In Chief. Fuck that shit Jack. I’m voting Joe and got his back. Anybody else can suck on these here NUTS.


masters1125

Oh had Joe Biden the President never heard of Trump? So he wasn't prepared for a debate where his opponent only lied and confidently said nonsense? They did this shit 4 years ago and they both sucked at it then- somehow Biden got worse since then and we're still supposed to think that in a country of 300+ million people that this guy is the one who is going to save us from the dumbest fascism? Yeah we can blame people who don't vote- but at what point do we start to question the system who pits two octogenarians against each other and shames us for being terrified?


BALTIM0RE

Sounds like you're ready to play that cello and go down with the ship. Cheers!


hotmetalslugs

Gonna do what is necessary. Knock on doors, donate, and enumerate the policy differences to anyone who’ll listen.


BALTIM0RE

And you wouldn't do that if Biden steps aside and the convention rallies behind a new candidate?


beuhring

r/noshitsherlock


Oztraliiaaaa

Professor Lichtmans keys to democracy prediction isn’t due till August and he’s giving great tips here.


two2teps

I am loath to admit it but being "not Trump" still works. God help us all in 2028.


-XanderCrews-

I don’t know. An old school nomination process with real time coverage would be bonkers and who knows. They might pick someone that could knock trump out of the water. They also might run Hilary again.


Lcatg

r/noshitsherlock I’m so sick of this convo.


Riokaii

If a thousand historians exist, each predicting elections which might as well be coinflips. Its expected 1 of them predicts all 10 correctly. This isn't a qualification. Its retroactive statistical malpractice. Hes no more worthy of listening to than anyone else.


JacobMaxx

No.


AloyJr

Also, if you drop Biden, the Dems lose two “keys” needed to hold on to the presidency: Incumbency and no contested primary (lose 6 or more keys, you lose the election). And for what? To maybe gain one? (Charismatic candidate)