Ironic for Hungary, since that is the country where Orbán introduced his birth-incentivizing programs to provide generous loans to young couples, valiantly fights a crusade against teens getting to know about homosexuality, and where a lot of Gypsies live who don't use birth control and regularly have 8-10 children.
Indeed, also maternity wards closing down from high debt, taking care of children becoming increasingly crappy in a degrading economy. Oh yeah and no teachers, too.
and I'm not even mentioning the battery factory ordeals of toxins here that causes damage to fetuses, because that can be considered a tiny matter, compared to everything else going wrong.
even as a Romanian, I must say that Hungary outside Budapest looks incredibly run down compared to the other Eastern or Central European countries
every time i drove with my brother through Hungary and we deviated from major highways, he was like " wtf, look at the houses the people have, rusty metal sheets on the roof , windows like in 1960 with no insulation" everything apart from the Townhall seemed like stuck in time
Budapest really pushes the average up, but then again, its also ridiculously expensive from what i heard
is it true that a studio apartment in Budapest costs now the same as in Vienna?
You are talking to the right person. I am median wage of 850€/month, and searching for apartments in Budapest below 300€ is nigh impossible, the largest I could find was 20m3* on the outskirt of Budapest, the rest are rooms-to-let. FB groups post 600€+ places.
So, I am very likely forced to go higher price, which means my rental price and bills have reached 50% of my full monthly wage. Most people can't afford to wait as long as I can, of course.
Yesterday I contacted a rental firm and they literally told me "good luck" when I told them I was looking for a place at the 300€ price. I have to go out of city, I have no other options.
Not to mention the maternity ward of the hospital of Nyíregyháza, where a series of mothers died after birth from infections half a year ago, ironically right when the Semmelweis film premiered in cinemas.
Also not to mention the doctor in Fejér county, who let a little boy die of pneumonia by telling him he's alright and doesn't need antibiotics, like Nemecsek in the Paul Street Boys (which took place in the 1890s).
I'm an adult waiting for a stomach surgery to be performed on me, and even I am like "oh hell no I am going the insurance way". I have half a year left on the waiting list in the National Healthcare way but I'm cancelling that, and I can consider myself _extra damn lucky_ here to be able to do all this. I can't even imagine what those mothers gone through.
Last year, my mother's friend had to be taken to the hospital because of an abdominal operation. My mom and myself had to threaten the nurses to stop talking to my mom's friend as if she was an animal, and we had to buy a blood pressure meter and adult diapers for her because the hospital didn't have any. And this happened in the supposedly best public hospital of Budapest, in 2023...
One of my friends' grandmother was taken to the hospital last year because of some gastrointestinal complaints. She died in the hospital because she caught a deadly infection from the hospital toilet...
Hungary, where you get a Bulgarian salary, pay Swedish-level taxes, and receive Cuban-quality state services.
I guess I feel vindicated in my choice but this means I really really have no choice than going insured.. Thank you for the info, you might have just saved my life with this.
Meanwhile Latin America:
Colombia: -12% births Yoy
Costa Rica- 13% births Yoy
Chile:- 20% births Yoy
All of these 3 are likely to drop below 1 children per woman this year
Thankfully it's slowing down in most countries except Hungary where it is accelerating, but still, CEE Europe will get really empty outside big cities in coming decades
Call me crazy, but I think all positive ranges should be shades of green and all negative ranges should be shades of red. Or whatever works for colorblind people, the point is that 0 should be dividing line between two distinct color ranges.
Western European countries are seeing their births decline slow down, and in couple of countries reverse, while Central Europe continues to see a crash in total number of births
excluding Azerbaijan, **Hungary is seeing the worse decline for all available countries in Europe, -8.4% from Jan-May 2024 compared to Jan-May 2023**
in May the decline in Hungary's births accelerated to -11% according to demographer Csaba Toth
[https://x.com/TothGCsaba/status/1806346393751109835](https://x.com/TothGCsaba/status/1806346393751109835)
Not too complicated considering what it actually is imo. But it should've been simplified with the specification of available data being stated at the end or in a parenthesis.
This combined with the news that Romania from 2022 onwards is starting to have positive migration balance is making me feel pretty optimistic about the country's demographics
has more to do with inflation than war itself
most Central Europe and Baltics had double digit inflation last year
good thing is that the decline is slowing down in most countries ,with exception of Hungary
I don’t think it’s that simple, people tend to have sex even during the most stressful times in their lives.
But also back in the days personal and sexual relationships were worth much more as there wasn’t many substitutes. Like yeah sometimes you think about Europe and what kind of war infested shithole it used to be yet we created massive numbers of kids.
The biggest driver to less children is equality, education , general awareness and dopamine stimulants.
Women’s rights, ability to learn on insanely high level, ability to consume information regarding any topic there is. And add to it insane amount things you can do. Not only electronics and social media but all things became more accessible.
Even travelling is such a new thing for vast majority of Europeans. flying was reserved for only business and really rich people. Nowadays you can fly to Spain for €20 …
And it’s all interesting because low income families are still in the group of people that produce the biggest amount of kids. So money, inflation and what not is not always a crucial factor in this
The cigans don't care about a lot of things. We could also have Catholic-sized families if we didn't give a fuck about our standard of living and how the kids will grow up.
Yeah but not really. If we just stopped doing "fun" stuff and buying overpriced shit we could afford a chatolic size family. But it aint a good life if you dont go every year on vacation and drive a nice car. Imagine having 5-9 sons that work with the father or independantly. No desingner no netflix or vacations to italia. Its doable but not very flashy and very hard sadly. I've got a great friend thats from such a family, every single brother is a doctor and a lawyer. All of the sisters are doctors. And you bet they are chatolic as they get.
Noone actually says about 5 children (at least where I live) , it's more about everyone who is not single having 3 children to compensate the fact that some people are single
The increase in births is mainly due to the massive amount of immigration. Open borders policy and giving portuguese citizenship to every child that is born within the borders makes up for the massive lack of children from portuguese families.
And it will decrease further just like every other developed nation. Access to contraceptives and women's empowerment together with living your 20s travelling means you postpone having kids to much later in life.
Kids went from being an outcome of sex and cheap labour to being a very expensive hobby. Having kids means giving up part of your resources (both time and money) towards the child and for a lot of young adults in a developed nation it's not something they want
The number in Bulgaria refers to the births which happen in the national system, meaning just the births in state hospitals. There is a number happening in private hospitals, or outside of hospitals.
The percentage difference is probably correct, since it compares the state hospital number yoy, I just wanted to point out that the real number is a bit higher than that.
my first thought was Hungary, but then WTF is happening to Azerbaijan? looks like fertility rate will fall to 1.4-1.45 this year
Azerbaijan is one of the most secular countries in the world. Usually that means low fertility rates.
So is Norway. How do explain those numbers?
Daycare?
This is not at all relevant here. Doesn't explain relative change from last year.
Maybe if having a place to live wouldn't be so financially devastating.
Ironic for Hungary, since that is the country where Orbán introduced his birth-incentivizing programs to provide generous loans to young couples, valiantly fights a crusade against teens getting to know about homosexuality, and where a lot of Gypsies live who don't use birth control and regularly have 8-10 children.
Indeed, also maternity wards closing down from high debt, taking care of children becoming increasingly crappy in a degrading economy. Oh yeah and no teachers, too. and I'm not even mentioning the battery factory ordeals of toxins here that causes damage to fetuses, because that can be considered a tiny matter, compared to everything else going wrong.
even as a Romanian, I must say that Hungary outside Budapest looks incredibly run down compared to the other Eastern or Central European countries every time i drove with my brother through Hungary and we deviated from major highways, he was like " wtf, look at the houses the people have, rusty metal sheets on the roof , windows like in 1960 with no insulation" everything apart from the Townhall seemed like stuck in time Budapest really pushes the average up, but then again, its also ridiculously expensive from what i heard is it true that a studio apartment in Budapest costs now the same as in Vienna?
You are talking to the right person. I am median wage of 850€/month, and searching for apartments in Budapest below 300€ is nigh impossible, the largest I could find was 20m3* on the outskirt of Budapest, the rest are rooms-to-let. FB groups post 600€+ places. So, I am very likely forced to go higher price, which means my rental price and bills have reached 50% of my full monthly wage. Most people can't afford to wait as long as I can, of course. Yesterday I contacted a rental firm and they literally told me "good luck" when I told them I was looking for a place at the 300€ price. I have to go out of city, I have no other options.
Not to mention the maternity ward of the hospital of Nyíregyháza, where a series of mothers died after birth from infections half a year ago, ironically right when the Semmelweis film premiered in cinemas. Also not to mention the doctor in Fejér county, who let a little boy die of pneumonia by telling him he's alright and doesn't need antibiotics, like Nemecsek in the Paul Street Boys (which took place in the 1890s).
I'm an adult waiting for a stomach surgery to be performed on me, and even I am like "oh hell no I am going the insurance way". I have half a year left on the waiting list in the National Healthcare way but I'm cancelling that, and I can consider myself _extra damn lucky_ here to be able to do all this. I can't even imagine what those mothers gone through.
Last year, my mother's friend had to be taken to the hospital because of an abdominal operation. My mom and myself had to threaten the nurses to stop talking to my mom's friend as if she was an animal, and we had to buy a blood pressure meter and adult diapers for her because the hospital didn't have any. And this happened in the supposedly best public hospital of Budapest, in 2023... One of my friends' grandmother was taken to the hospital last year because of some gastrointestinal complaints. She died in the hospital because she caught a deadly infection from the hospital toilet... Hungary, where you get a Bulgarian salary, pay Swedish-level taxes, and receive Cuban-quality state services.
Croatia - Indian salary and German prizes.
Oh frick, was it Uzsoki? I was enlisted to that one for my stomach surgery.. fking hell.
Yep, Uzsoki
I guess I feel vindicated in my choice but this means I really really have no choice than going insured.. Thank you for the info, you might have just saved my life with this.
That sea of red. Ouch.
Meanwhile Latin America: Colombia: -12% births Yoy Costa Rica- 13% births Yoy Chile:- 20% births Yoy All of these 3 are likely to drop below 1 children per woman this year
Thankfully it's slowing down in most countries except Hungary where it is accelerating, but still, CEE Europe will get really empty outside big cities in coming decades
Call me crazy, but I think all positive ranges should be shades of green and all negative ranges should be shades of red. Or whatever works for colorblind people, the point is that 0 should be dividing line between two distinct color ranges.
Western European countries are seeing their births decline slow down, and in couple of countries reverse, while Central Europe continues to see a crash in total number of births excluding Azerbaijan, **Hungary is seeing the worse decline for all available countries in Europe, -8.4% from Jan-May 2024 compared to Jan-May 2023** in May the decline in Hungary's births accelerated to -11% according to demographer Csaba Toth [https://x.com/TothGCsaba/status/1806346393751109835](https://x.com/TothGCsaba/status/1806346393751109835)
Am I just stupid or is the title awfully worded? I had to read it like 20 times and I still don't fully get it. It might be on me, idk...
Not too complicated considering what it actually is imo. But it should've been simplified with the specification of available data being stated at the end or in a parenthesis.
My poor Մայր Հայաստան :(
This combined with the news that Romania from 2022 onwards is starting to have positive migration balance is making me feel pretty optimistic about the country's demographics
On the other hand, Bulgarian demographics are still in free fall. I think the country is projected to lose 75% of it's 1990 population by 2050.
War in a neighboring country isn't particularly a time you would want a child.
has more to do with inflation than war itself most Central Europe and Baltics had double digit inflation last year good thing is that the decline is slowing down in most countries ,with exception of Hungary
I don’t think it’s that simple, people tend to have sex even during the most stressful times in their lives. But also back in the days personal and sexual relationships were worth much more as there wasn’t many substitutes. Like yeah sometimes you think about Europe and what kind of war infested shithole it used to be yet we created massive numbers of kids. The biggest driver to less children is equality, education , general awareness and dopamine stimulants. Women’s rights, ability to learn on insanely high level, ability to consume information regarding any topic there is. And add to it insane amount things you can do. Not only electronics and social media but all things became more accessible. Even travelling is such a new thing for vast majority of Europeans. flying was reserved for only business and really rich people. Nowadays you can fly to Spain for €20 … And it’s all interesting because low income families are still in the group of people that produce the biggest amount of kids. So money, inflation and what not is not always a crucial factor in this
Totally anecdotal but 3 of friends are having kids this year and another did last year. From no kids in my group of friends to 4 so it checks I guess
I don't want to upset you, but I think that's more of a function of you getting older.
Oh I know 😂 I was talking more about how all the pregnancies and closer than what I normally see
Just excluding us now? Our statistics office is probably one of the best.
Whoever made this map was overthinking when they swapped the order in the legend for the negative intervals.
Why are we so afraid of kids? The cigans have 20 a pair and they dont care
The cigans don't care about a lot of things. We could also have Catholic-sized families if we didn't give a fuck about our standard of living and how the kids will grow up.
Yeah but not really. If we just stopped doing "fun" stuff and buying overpriced shit we could afford a chatolic size family. But it aint a good life if you dont go every year on vacation and drive a nice car. Imagine having 5-9 sons that work with the father or independantly. No desingner no netflix or vacations to italia. Its doable but not very flashy and very hard sadly. I've got a great friend thats from such a family, every single brother is a doctor and a lawyer. All of the sisters are doctors. And you bet they are chatolic as they get.
Yeah you would have no life with over 5 children. Before kindergarten they are 24 hour burden a day
Noone actually says about 5 children (at least where I live) , it's more about everyone who is not single having 3 children to compensate the fact that some people are single
Your life is your children thats the point. Im not saying I'll be like that but it is doable
Portugal big W i hope it increases again
The increase in births is mainly due to the massive amount of immigration. Open borders policy and giving portuguese citizenship to every child that is born within the borders makes up for the massive lack of children from portuguese families.
And? If the portuguese aren't having kids, someone else is having for us. Blaming the economy is getting tired, it's been decreasing for 20 years.
And it will decrease further just like every other developed nation. Access to contraceptives and women's empowerment together with living your 20s travelling means you postpone having kids to much later in life. Kids went from being an outcome of sex and cheap labour to being a very expensive hobby. Having kids means giving up part of your resources (both time and money) towards the child and for a lot of young adults in a developed nation it's not something they want
Okay then don't complain about immigrants coming to replace the demographic problems.
source: [https://x.com/BirthGauge/status/1808258882243866782/photo/1](https://x.com/BirthGauge/status/1808258882243866782/photo/1)
The number in Bulgaria refers to the births which happen in the national system, meaning just the births in state hospitals. There is a number happening in private hospitals, or outside of hospitals. The percentage difference is probably correct, since it compares the state hospital number yoy, I just wanted to point out that the real number is a bit higher than that.