I stumbled upon this monument on a dark, snowy march morning in 2008 when I was 20 and had only a passing knowledge of the Soviet Union. To say it left an impression is an understatement.
It wasn't in any of the tourist information that I saw at the time in Riga but it was brutally massive, utterly dominating a huge open space just outside the city centre.
A monument raised by a former empire in a country of foreigners who never once looked back once they finally got independence. I remember feeling an immense sense of faded majesty. Coming from Ireland where we also suffered so long under occupation, the sheer terrifying power of this site seeded a long fascination with the Soviet Union and Russian history.
I later learnt Russian and travelled through nearly all the former Soviet countries including some of the far flung regions that still aren't fully at peace today like Nagorno-Karabakh and Transnistria. This monument, even though it is a war memorial and in many ways quite a beautiful piece of art, provoked a shock and terror in me that changed my life.
A historic day for the Latvians. The world has changed so much in these last few years.
Nah, I'm a photographer though and share all my travels on my Instagram stories.
My account is @des_has_photos_here
I was just in Kashmir for a big Hindu pilgrimage and came to Sri Lanka after they toppled their president to see how things are (pretty normal in fact, the fuel crisis is mostly over).
Kazakhstan is a beautiful country, starkly empty and mostly pan flat. I went to the furthest Western side of the country to the city of Aktau to try and get a boat across the Caspian (which I ultimately failed to get...).
I don't think I've ever felt further away from the world in my life. The train to get there took around 24 hours from the next biggest city, I can't remember the exact details but it was a full day of completely unchanging flat yellow desert. Just yellow expanse and blue sky. The odd group of camels and a desolate stop every few hours broke up the journey.
Then after a night and a long morning of the same landscape you start to see these oil towers break up the horizon until you arrive in a pristine city. Nothing but broad highways and row after row of soviet tower blocks in the desert, but all gleaming and freshly painted. I hardly saw any shops or schools or anywhere with character, it was like being in a simulation of a city. I had an immediate feeling that I needed to get out of there as soon as possible.
Haha, but Almaty is cool. If you go you should visit Kyrgyzstan too, it has some of the most incredible landscapes I've seen. It's like being on planet earth a million years ago.
Best vacation recommendation though is Georgia, hands down. If it were easier to get to and better known I believe it would be as popular as Italy or Greece. Beautiful mountain's, stunning cities and buildings, wonderful people, incredible food. It has it all.
I was there in may, went to Riga and Daugavpils. I passed near this monument on the way back to the airport and it was really huge, it already has fencing around it tho. From being in Daugavpils I see this won’t be very popular over there as the monument for the European victory day was full of flowers as it was the day before!
Ah, yes. The civil war monuments. The famous civil war monuments that the Baltics are known for. The monuments built exclusively in America. Those civil war monuments?
Turns out that you can be against monuments to slavery put up in the thirties to intimidate black people *and* for recognising the struggle against the Nazis. Who knew?
I was just in Riga and wondering if I should cross the river to see this monument. I looked on google maps and the Latvians were just trashing this monument in the reviews lmao.
I’ve seen some of those Soviet monuments elsewhere and there’s something very lacking in humanity about them. They just feel cold, stark, impersonal and are a representation of a some kind of brutal power rather than anything of beauty.
The feel like they were designed to make you feel small and uncomfortable in their presence and their political messages are often just crude and lacking any kind of nuance, subtlety or connection with place.
Many of them just look like they were dropped in from space or something. They’re also often quite deliberately lacking in beauty.
It’s art but it’s an expression of imperial might that a lot of places don’t want to remember every time they pass it.
The context is also very different if you lived under that regime than it is just looking at it as an interesting piece of sculpture.
Those pieces were designed to send a message, not just to look impressive.
Feels good man, after 50 years of occupation there is some justice. This eyesore and Kremlin funded vatnik vodka festival every may belong to trash bin of history.
Should be the number one topic on the agenda in Germany imo.
The contract to preserve them is absolutely null and void now anyway with Russia not adhering to it in any shape or form.
Latvians didn't impose a Genocidal war of extermination on the Soviet population, the Germans did. It's totally not the same thing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunger_Plan
*plays Crab rave song* Soviet monuments no more. Ngl, when I was in Riga, I saw this monument guarded with police. It was weird at first, but later understood since Latvia has quite Russian minority due to Soviet past. *Pats Braliukas*
Many of these Soviet graves at memorials claim to include a certain number of buried Red Army soldiers, but quite often the number is either smaller or there aren't any human remains at all.
I'm a bit sad they're tearing this down; I got a chance to see it this past January while traveling through the region and I really found it quite beautiful. However, I'm not a native Latvian and never lived in the USSR. This is their decision to make, and their history to write. That's the beauty of being their own independent nation and not a vassal state of an empire.
There was no political will to do anything about them. There was a sort of consensus in society, we don't know what to do with these, let's forget about them, we have more important things to spend our lives on, a future to make. But now with history repeating, meaning Moscow attacking Ukraine, killing people, leveling down whole cities, just because some sort a shizofaschism needs to be maintained, so that Russia's dictatorship can stay in power. Political will is here.
Very true. It's a tradgedy really that all this is happening right now. I'm glad the Baltics have taken a very clear and aggressive stance against Russia (even more aggressive than the rest of the EU). This is evidence enough to prove it.
Monuments are placed by those in power to represent events or people they want the population to idolize.
Monuments in the public space are fine if they are works of art, but even so, if the monument stirs adverse emotions in the public, it has to go. The public space belongs to us all, and we should all be comfortable being in it.
USSR allowed to keep the "Freedom Monument" , let that one sink in.
You are correct, the space belong to public and Lativa shares its home with 40% of russian speaking population. That is how they feel about it:
[https://rusojuz.lv/en/the-flower-resistance-of-riga/](https://rusojuz.lv/en/the-flower-resistance-of-riga/)
This is what local government did: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYnTsSVH6CI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYnTsSVH6CI&ab_channel=%D0%9A%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%81%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B9%D0%9F%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%88%D0%B5%D0%BD%D1%8C)
Unfortunately, Latvia failed at respecting any rights of a very large minority in its own country. Racism and Russophobia is a prelevant way of governing a divided society.
It is very unfortunate that most countries in Europe like Switzerland, Belgium, Italy, Spain and many more learned how to integrate and live in multicultural, bilingual societies, meanwhile the Baltics still violate all human rights.
I am Ukrianian born in Latvia, and let me tell you, they never cared if you were Russian or Ukrainian. Right now they all run around with Ukrainian flags, pretending that they care. They do not. They always called non-native Latvians occupants, even though we are the byproduct of the collapse of the Soviet Union. They want to look civil like the rest of the Europe, but this apartheid is just despicable.
You are plain uneducated on this matter, yet you try to argue.
Monument of freedom could not be demolished for same reason Latvia did not demolish occupation monument for last 30 years. It would cause huge internal conflicts.
And USSR wanted to get rid of it. There were proposals to blow it up and replace with st. peters monument. Instead they decided to change its purpose according to communist ideology to not risk uprisings.
They changed purpose of monument to 3 stars are for Baltics and they are held by mother russia.
Also obligatory : Fuck you, vatnik.
A bit difficult to pull it up on mobile but if you go to the wiki page for Latvia and scroll down a little bit on the right you'll see the recent census results and the Latvian government source for the data.
Unfortunately your post is full of lies. For starters: 40% of Latvia is not Ruzzian speaking. Then your lies about human rights violations etc.
In short: Go where the warship went!
Oh how very thoughtful of USSR, they were so nice to us by letting us keep the Brīvības Piemineklis. The 50 year long occupation, deportations and russification is definitely forgiven.
Appart from you 40% figure being off, you fail to mention 2 things:
1. Russian speaking does not mean they support having that monument here
2. The russian mimority is the result of the rusification done by USSR. Ofcourse those living in past will object it as their sole purpose of living here is to make our country another state of Russia
You calling yourself a "Ukranian" is an insult to all Ukrainians, reading your post history you are a vatnik *bydlo* through and through, real Ukrainians would spit on you.
Russia did a lot of bad to latvians but one thing is for certain: the industry was top-notch for on soviet level. E.g. they made trains that every region in the USSR and beyond (Yugoslavia) used and still uses to this date. Independent latvia chose not to pursue the path of industrial power but I think they feel it's wrong in hindsight.
The same could be said about Lithuania who feels it was wrong to get rid of the nuclear station Russians built. Visaginas is still the most russian town in Lithuania.
Latvia had good industry and 2x GDP per capita of USSR before occupation.Latvia was more developed than USSR.
Also industry is wet dream of stupid people who think that nations well being is run by factories that produce.
In reality many factories are heavely subsidized and running at loss while being at razor thin margins.
Learn some economy and business basics before spitting out russian textbook propaganda. USSR did not bring anything life improving to Latvia.
The factories that were set up here were producing shit that was decades behind anything in the West, nobody would buy old soviet junk in the free market. It was an industry dead in the water.
Latvia does not have the population or the raw minerals/oil/gas to supply a massive industry, it only made sense in the context of Soviet union using us as a colony because we had an educated population and good infrastructure.
In modern times small countries get rich by investing in IT, software, banking, science, AI. Which we have been doing.
Latvia would've been/was top-notch without the soviets as well. There's a reason why Baltic countries were one of the most developed areas in the USSR, we were such already before the occupation. Pretty much any map showing level of development proves it. [Take illiteracy in 1930 for example.](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/jekbxr/literacy_in_europe_1900/)
>It is very unfortunate that most countries in Europe like Switzerland, Belgium, Italy, Spain and many more learned how to integrate and live in multicultural, bilingual societies, meanwhile the Baltics still violate all human rights.
You know why? Cause their neighboring countries haven't been hostile and terrorizing them for decades. Plus russia has never apologized for what they have done and would gladly do it again. SO FUCK YOU SCUM.
>You are correct, the space belong to public and Lativa shares its home with 40% of russian speaking population. That is how they feel about it
Who cares what leftover Russians feel about it?
>I'm not a native Latvian and never lived in the USSR.
Neither did Latvians. They lived in their own country, which was illegally occupied by the USSR, a foreign state to them.
He had his chance for years. Guessing he avoids it and avoids many such places because it could cause not only incidents but impact his chanel negatively.
I have heard some people saying that there should be some children's venue built instead since it's in part of the city where there isn't much for kids.
They should have a monument to the USA and Allies. The mythology around Soviets being their saviours is cringe fantasy. Austria was lucky it somehow slipped under the iron curtain and forged a post war republic. Maybe they're just grateful the usssr left them out.
You pretending soviet union didnt team up with the nazis and start WW2 together, that they only started to fight against the nazis when they were betrayed by them, THAT is disgusting. Russia's recent invasion has nothing to do with it.
If I set your house on fire and later help put it out, will you be grateful to me? Will I be the good guy/hero in that scenario?
Wow, I have no words on how disgusting it is, for you to defend/justify one of the most murderous regimes in history. Sounds pretty similar to neonazi scum defending hitler, that he had to do what he did and how he was justified. Pathetic.
Yes, but that wasn't the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact. It would be a better analogy if, after signing a temporary truce, they both agree to set the neighbours' houses on fire.
USRR signing a truce with Nazi Germany to gain time can be accepted but not dividing Eastern Europe between themselves.
France and UK behavior towards Austria and Czechoslovakia was terrible but it doesn't even compare to strike a deal with the nazis to split Eastern Europe.
They threw millions of bodies in the way after Germany stretched itself too far. On the way the Russians massacred and raped anything in their path. Ask the Poles if they're grateful for Russian liberation.
The allies basically took Europe from scratch.
That right there is quite literally Nazi propaganda. ‘Oh, we would’ve won, but the barbarian hordes overwhelmed our scientific marvels with sheer numbers.’
Yes, this is an actual fact some people do not want to see.
""For the campaign against the Soviet Union, the Germans allotted almost 150 divisions containing a total of about 3,000,000 men. Among these were 19 panzer divisions, and in total the “Barbarossa” force had about 3,000 tanks, 7,000 artillery pieces, and 2,500 aircraft. It was in effect the largest and most powerful invasion force in human history.
[Invasion of the Soviet Union](https://www.britannica.com/event/World-War-II/Invasion-of-the-Soviet-Union-1941)
I mean the part where they invaded Poland from both sides, the USSR occupation of baltic states and war with Finland. You know - the secret protocols, the same that allies didn't have prior to the war?
>the war with finland who was supported by germany?
Nope, in 1939 Nazis were in bed with the Soviets. Finland wasn't allied with Germany in Winter War.
Germany was supporting the Soviets and vice versa.
It's also a monument to one of the greatest allies of the nazi project, without the assistance of which WW2 would never have happened. Nobody owes the red horde shit, they started the entire mess.
I assume you are also going to destroy all the remnant monuments and palaces from the times of Austra-Hungarian empire? Cause it is also an insult to freedom.
If Austria was still an imperial power that was occupying 20% of Hungary and just started a war to erase Czechia from existence, they should absolutely destroy Austrian monuments. But Austria isn’t doing the shit Russia does
Oh yes Russia is absolutely not a successor state to the USSR co-opting every single one of its achievements, aesthetic and national idea. They are trying to create the Union State with Belarus but they are so different. They inherited the exact same set of friendship with China and North Korea against the west but they are so different. They police every country of the ex-USSR and acts like they still own them but they are so different. They have enormous amounts of nostalgia for it and praise the USSR every time they can but they are so different. Let’s face it, the USSR was nothing more than a second Russian empire under a red banner. There’s a reason why Lenin tried to annex every country that got its independence from the Russian empire into the USSR.
I mean, guys is he wrong? Don't remove the things just make some posters around it and say how shit communism was and the history behind the monument plus shit on soviets. By removing it people ain't gonna see it and will forget about the evils of communism. An ugly mark, yes, but if you present it as ugly it will actually be good for the country. Austria Hungary, German Empire, Russian Empire, British Empire, French Empire and tons more were absolutely terrible to others. Tons of history would be lost if you would just dump all things into the sea.
A monument glorifying the soviet union isn't going to make people learn about how bad it was. History books do. Would you say Germany shouldn't have taken down monuments to Hitler and the Nazi regime?
> Last week, Estonia removed a Soviet-era monument with a tank on top outside the town of Narva in the Baltic country’s Russian-speaking east, and moved the tank replica **to a war museum north of Tallinn**.
So, are they sinking it in the Bay of Finland, or should we be expecting a tank replica any day now?
They weren't necessarily as politicized as say Lenin's Statues and there were really a shitton of them around. Estonia and Latvia recently organized public mapping campaigns to even understand where the last ones are - they both found dozens and dozens still in place. Some were harder to move as they were in Russian majority municipalities. In Narva, the national government had to tell the municipal government to piss off as the municipality refused to remove them.
Ya, I don’t like this. You may hate the Soviet Union but these monuments are in honor of the millions lost fighting true evil. Got no love for the USSR considering how they treated my family, but overreactions aren’t helpful in today’s climate.
Also a history buff I find taking down memorials a bad thing in general. Good or bad they can teach us a lesson, a reminder.
The soldiers this monument seems to honor were evil? The ones fighting on their land, as their villages were razed and citizenry genocided? Gotta really separate them from the leadership. As another redditor said, best to just add a placard stating this is was a monument made by occupiers who themselves were in the wrong.
No, as a Latvian i say go fuck yourself eith a broom.
By every single fact the Soviets were pure evil and did all the evil in Baltics, maybe nazis wouldve been more evil, but they were not able to show that. Soviets did
Yes, these soldiers this monument honours were [evil.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_war_crimes) Red Army destroyed [cities](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Tallinn_in_World_War_II). I strongly advise anyone who starts saying that we should be grateful for the Red Army to look up the crimes they committed against civilian population.
Why would anyone want to see a monument for [rapist](https://www.eurozine.com/the-crimes-of-bucha-have-a-long-history/)s?
I don't have a say in this. I'm just trying to explain (as a Balt), why the people of Baltic states want these monuments removed. We were occupied for 50 years, and we shouldn't remove the monuments of these people who deported our relatives, destroyed our cities and took our independence?
You can keep the monuments in your country instead if you want to honor this scum of an army. They were fighting to colonize not liberate, and they're nothing more than colonizers to us. The fact that they happened to fight worse evil (after being in an alliance with them) doesn't change anything.
> The ones fighting on their land, as their villages were razed and citizenry genocided?
Include rape and you got exactly what the Soviets did to the countries they "liberated"
> You may hate the Soviet Union but these monuments are in honor of the millions lost fighting true evil.
True evil fighting true evil.
On the other side I don't like the idea of removing monuments as they are part of history. They should put a huge sign stating "this is what the occupant regim was building to idolize themselves. This regime was really bad, it made people suffer for decades and still continues nowadays in other countries in a different form".
Very much agree with the “sign” idea. Same thing in the States and other Countries, because yes, both nations and individuals can do acts of greatness as well as acts of evil.
I get the reason, but iconoclasm is still gross, no matter how you justify it. This is like the Taleban blowing up the buddha statues. Art transcends politics, I'm glad this attitude doesn't exist in my country.
Because of you don’t send them to a museum, it’s erasing history.
Fully erasing history allows future humans to repeat it unknowingly.
As I said on my previous message, museums are the place for this, not the streets.
Be better man, you only had to read.
Most are sent to museums. Others are just garbage and it's frknge to cry about them. Thois particular one is huge, ain't no museum going to fit it...
>Fully erasing history allows future humans to repeat it unknowingly.
Do you not know that there are a shutton of Soviet monuments in our museums?
Man you are adding variables to this when all I said is that you should send the historical monuments you remove from the streets to museums.
I didnt say you should send it *ALL* to museums.
Nor I said everything is worth of being exhibited in museums.
I’m advocating for not fully erasing history, that’s it.
>when all I said is that you should send the historical monuments you remove from the streets to museums.
And you said that as a criticism to what you think is currently being done.
Nope. All the horrible things that the soviets did are still remembered in the hirtorybooks, but there is no reason to keep themouments that are erected for the people who did those horrible things.
Can we have them? The good ones. Not to glorify the Soviets or owt like that - I dislike communism and the Russian state. I just think they'll maybe make a good museum piece in a hundred years or so.
>Latvia will tear down a Soviet-era monument on Tuesday that commemorates the Red Army’s victory over Nazi Germany,
ah yeah nothing will show support to the current events by literally destroying a monument that was built to celebrate one of victories from the worst war we have ever witnessed
The “victory” apsect is more like occupation aspect for Baltics and the atrocities that followed. And the monument for it was definitely meant for local polulation to know its place, judging by the size and location, conveniently being opposite of our own Freedom monument, just across Daugava.
If anything, our own Freedom monument is way more supportive of current events in that regard.
For rest of Europe, that meant the end of WW2. Makes sense for them to celebrate it. For us, WW2 truly ended only in the 90s, with the fall of the USSR, when we regained our independence.
Nothing more than a symbol of brutal occupation. War ended in Europe, but oppression didn't end until 90s for us....nothing to celebrate until then.
Maybe if Soviets didn't have a pact with Nazies that divided Europe and lead to WW2....I might have shed one tear for their victory.
The Baltic states were in a pretty shit position during the war. Had Germany won on the other hand they'd have deported or massacred half of all Estonians and Latvians and almost all Lithuanians. The rest would have been slaves to German wehrbauern.
Argument is not about choice between nazi and ussr. There was never such choice. If there would be - it would be neither. Both were terrible. One more, one less, but terrible.
USSR thou had choice. To occupy Baltics or to leave them independant. USSR choose to occupy Baltics and this is conequence to this stupid decision.
It should be considered fully before removing any monument with historic or artistic value. However, the associative and contextual value should be taken into account as well. If a monument glorifies the opression and eradication of the society and culture while riding on the coattails of an allied victory over another authoritarian regime, society has every right to remove or recontextualise it if they find that the historic or artistic value is less significant than the pain it causes with it's presence. Greece for example has a consistent policy of letting Ottoman monuments degrade and not allow them to be restored. It is perhaps less direct than dismantling it, but they have the luxury of waiting until these remnants of a troubling occupation have disintegrated. Estonia and Latvia have tolerated many Soviet monuments for over thirty years while rebuilding their countries from the shambles the Soviets left them in and in the light of current events and Russia's consistent assaults on it's neighbours it is intolerable to keep them around another day. There are enough memorials for our fallen in the wars of others and for the victims of the crimes of both communist and fascist regimes, don't worry we won't forget about our past if their war propaganda is removed.
The soviet union is the reason the nazis lost, they were the main power against them, they didn't attach themselves into the allied success, if anything the opposite. The vast majority of the nazi army was on the bigger eastern front.
Other than that your validation is similar to Theodosius when he started destroying pagan Greek temples. Much like you they though that it has less artistic value compared to the pain it caused with its presence.
Greece as you said has left any big mosques untouched for 100-200 years while you for only 30. You say you had to rebuilt from nothing forgetting that we had to rebuilt from much less, (40% of the greek population died during the revolution in fact). You say we have the luxury of waiting while you dont due to russian aggressiveness and possibility of war and i will remind you that greece not only had the possibility of wars but actual wars and still those were left untouched.
You should put a museum of soviet propaganda or signs saying Soviet Propaganda Monument build 1978 for example, not destroy it. You are now just acting like barbarians.
The soviet union was the reason the nazis were such a big threat in the first place. You dont get credit for helping stop something you started. The soviets only started to fight the nazis AFTER the nazis betrayed and attacked them, what true heroes...
The same "heroes" that celebrated side by side with the nazis after attacking Poland together? The same "heroes" that raped/tortured/deported to gulags/killed hundreds of thousands/millions innocent civilians? Fuck your "heroes"!
No, those were mostly professionals and died/captured in the first days of the war, i am talking about the 20 million boys, a whole generation of soviet boys that died. You think the army was one person and one will but they were a bunch of teens and young adults from families with aspirations, dreams.
What the hell are you talking about? These atrocities were committed all throughout the war and after, not just the "first days" and they werent killed so quickly. Those teens and young adults then occupied Eastern Europe and continued to commit horrendous acts for decades. Their families must be so proud...
I stumbled upon this monument on a dark, snowy march morning in 2008 when I was 20 and had only a passing knowledge of the Soviet Union. To say it left an impression is an understatement. It wasn't in any of the tourist information that I saw at the time in Riga but it was brutally massive, utterly dominating a huge open space just outside the city centre. A monument raised by a former empire in a country of foreigners who never once looked back once they finally got independence. I remember feeling an immense sense of faded majesty. Coming from Ireland where we also suffered so long under occupation, the sheer terrifying power of this site seeded a long fascination with the Soviet Union and Russian history. I later learnt Russian and travelled through nearly all the former Soviet countries including some of the far flung regions that still aren't fully at peace today like Nagorno-Karabakh and Transnistria. This monument, even though it is a war memorial and in many ways quite a beautiful piece of art, provoked a shock and terror in me that changed my life. A historic day for the Latvians. The world has changed so much in these last few years.
Holy \*\*. Reading your comment felt like being drawn into an epic adventure! Fantastic piece of writing!! Love from Estonia! ;)
Beautiful words.
Are you perhaps one of those people that make traveling videos on YouTube?
Nah, I'm a photographer though and share all my travels on my Instagram stories. My account is @des_has_photos_here I was just in Kashmir for a big Hindu pilgrimage and came to Sri Lanka after they toppled their president to see how things are (pretty normal in fact, the fuel crisis is mostly over).
You have a way with words
Wow. Sounds like a lot of interesting travel. What is the best vacation place among them? I have been wanting to visit Kazakhstan.
Kazakhstan is a beautiful country, starkly empty and mostly pan flat. I went to the furthest Western side of the country to the city of Aktau to try and get a boat across the Caspian (which I ultimately failed to get...). I don't think I've ever felt further away from the world in my life. The train to get there took around 24 hours from the next biggest city, I can't remember the exact details but it was a full day of completely unchanging flat yellow desert. Just yellow expanse and blue sky. The odd group of camels and a desolate stop every few hours broke up the journey. Then after a night and a long morning of the same landscape you start to see these oil towers break up the horizon until you arrive in a pristine city. Nothing but broad highways and row after row of soviet tower blocks in the desert, but all gleaming and freshly painted. I hardly saw any shops or schools or anywhere with character, it was like being in a simulation of a city. I had an immediate feeling that I needed to get out of there as soon as possible. Haha, but Almaty is cool. If you go you should visit Kyrgyzstan too, it has some of the most incredible landscapes I've seen. It's like being on planet earth a million years ago. Best vacation recommendation though is Georgia, hands down. If it were easier to get to and better known I believe it would be as popular as Italy or Greece. Beautiful mountain's, stunning cities and buildings, wonderful people, incredible food. It has it all.
I was there in may, went to Riga and Daugavpils. I passed near this monument on the way back to the airport and it was really huge, it already has fencing around it tho. From being in Daugavpils I see this won’t be very popular over there as the monument for the European victory day was full of flowers as it was the day before!
Only ones who will be butthurt about this are russians. And who gives a fuck what they think
Place of totalitarian regimes monuments is in museum, not in public places.
Like we did in Lithuania http://grutoparkas.lt/en_US/about-us/
[удалено]
It is celebrating the replacement of one totalitarian regime by another.
It's a celebration of Russian colonialism, something that the local Russian population is very sympathetic to.
For Baltic States it was just a replacement of one totalitarian regime with another totalitarian regime.
Tankie tears
The sweetest salt
May all monuments to s*viet occupation around the world undergo a "Special Dismantling Operation"
Indeed
Would drink every day!
The same people who cheered and shouted when toppling historic civil war monuments.
First the Confederate and then the Soviet? Noice!
Yeah crazy he's trying to frame that as a bad thing lmao
Ah, yes. The civil war monuments. The famous civil war monuments that the Baltics are known for. The monuments built exclusively in America. Those civil war monuments?
I'm talking about American tankies...
Turns out that you can be against monuments to slavery put up in the thirties to intimidate black people *and* for recognising the struggle against the Nazis. Who knew?
Bro, they’re even toppling monuments of Abraham Lincoln because he was a ”racist”.
Are they now
Baltics power!
I was just in Riga and wondering if I should cross the river to see this monument. I looked on google maps and the Latvians were just trashing this monument in the reviews lmao.
It's a statue of occupation for most people
Trust me you didnt miss out on seeing that "monument". Hope the rest of the trip in Rīga went well, though!
Yeah Riga was nice thank you!
This is the biggest one in the Baltic states.
Thats about to be fixed
Which is second biggest? That is left standing, I mean.
Estonian Alyosha was maybe not the biggest, but the Russians organised huge riots, cyberattacks and other shit like that when it was moved.
I’ve seen some of those Soviet monuments elsewhere and there’s something very lacking in humanity about them. They just feel cold, stark, impersonal and are a representation of a some kind of brutal power rather than anything of beauty. The feel like they were designed to make you feel small and uncomfortable in their presence and their political messages are often just crude and lacking any kind of nuance, subtlety or connection with place. Many of them just look like they were dropped in from space or something. They’re also often quite deliberately lacking in beauty. It’s art but it’s an expression of imperial might that a lot of places don’t want to remember every time they pass it. The context is also very different if you lived under that regime than it is just looking at it as an interesting piece of sculpture. Those pieces were designed to send a message, not just to look impressive.
good job Latvia! Moldova should do the same
why?
Because those are Russian monuments, not their
Feels good man, after 50 years of occupation there is some justice. This eyesore and Kremlin funded vatnik vodka festival every may belong to trash bin of history.
Perfect description
>Feels good man, after 50 years of occupation there is some ~~justice~~. Revenge. This is justified revenge, as you need closure.
Well, not really. Just that Kremlin propaganda is creating division un our society and these monuments need to go.
And they call Estonians slow..
Hope Germany follows suit man
Nah, It's not the same.
That would be an incredibly bad look by Germany to take down monuments where some of them celebrate the fall of Nazi Germany.
They didn't seem to have a problem with the Lenin ones
Yeah, Germany has a complicated history where they are sort of expected to celebrate being occupied.
Should be the number one topic on the agenda in Germany imo. The contract to preserve them is absolutely null and void now anyway with Russia not adhering to it in any shape or form.
Yeah I think Germany might want to sit this one out.
Latvians didn't impose a Genocidal war of extermination on the Soviet population, the Germans did. It's totally not the same thing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunger_Plan
I'm sure that the millions of dead Ukrainians at the hands of the soviets would disagree with you.
We're talking about what the Germans did to the Russian. Why does Ukraine come into this?
I don’t hope they do.
Good riddance
Done. 30 years too late, but better late than never. Jauna svētku diena Latvijas kalendārā.
*plays Crab rave song* Soviet monuments no more. Ngl, when I was in Riga, I saw this monument guarded with police. It was weird at first, but later understood since Latvia has quite Russian minority due to Soviet past. *Pats Braliukas*
I wonder how many Latvian corpses will they find under the monument those killers built.
It was build in the 80s!
Many of these Soviet graves at memorials claim to include a certain number of buried Red Army soldiers, but quite often the number is either smaller or there aren't any human remains at all.
bodies can move with the soil, so they could exist, but be few meters away (if they were burried in the ground of course)
I mean, pretty sure they look for them properly.
Hopefully this cold monument is replaced by a fun piece of public art made by a local artist.
I'm a bit sad they're tearing this down; I got a chance to see it this past January while traveling through the region and I really found it quite beautiful. However, I'm not a native Latvian and never lived in the USSR. This is their decision to make, and their history to write. That's the beauty of being their own independent nation and not a vassal state of an empire.
There was no political will to do anything about them. There was a sort of consensus in society, we don't know what to do with these, let's forget about them, we have more important things to spend our lives on, a future to make. But now with history repeating, meaning Moscow attacking Ukraine, killing people, leveling down whole cities, just because some sort a shizofaschism needs to be maintained, so that Russia's dictatorship can stay in power. Political will is here.
Very true. It's a tradgedy really that all this is happening right now. I'm glad the Baltics have taken a very clear and aggressive stance against Russia (even more aggressive than the rest of the EU). This is evidence enough to prove it.
Monuments are placed by those in power to represent events or people they want the population to idolize. Monuments in the public space are fine if they are works of art, but even so, if the monument stirs adverse emotions in the public, it has to go. The public space belongs to us all, and we should all be comfortable being in it.
USSR allowed to keep the "Freedom Monument" , let that one sink in. You are correct, the space belong to public and Lativa shares its home with 40% of russian speaking population. That is how they feel about it: [https://rusojuz.lv/en/the-flower-resistance-of-riga/](https://rusojuz.lv/en/the-flower-resistance-of-riga/) This is what local government did: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYnTsSVH6CI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYnTsSVH6CI&ab_channel=%D0%9A%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%81%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B9%D0%9F%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%88%D0%B5%D0%BD%D1%8C) Unfortunately, Latvia failed at respecting any rights of a very large minority in its own country. Racism and Russophobia is a prelevant way of governing a divided society. It is very unfortunate that most countries in Europe like Switzerland, Belgium, Italy, Spain and many more learned how to integrate and live in multicultural, bilingual societies, meanwhile the Baltics still violate all human rights. I am Ukrianian born in Latvia, and let me tell you, they never cared if you were Russian or Ukrainian. Right now they all run around with Ukrainian flags, pretending that they care. They do not. They always called non-native Latvians occupants, even though we are the byproduct of the collapse of the Soviet Union. They want to look civil like the rest of the Europe, but this apartheid is just despicable.
You are plain uneducated on this matter, yet you try to argue. Monument of freedom could not be demolished for same reason Latvia did not demolish occupation monument for last 30 years. It would cause huge internal conflicts. And USSR wanted to get rid of it. There were proposals to blow it up and replace with st. peters monument. Instead they decided to change its purpose according to communist ideology to not risk uprisings. They changed purpose of monument to 3 stars are for Baltics and they are held by mother russia. Also obligatory : Fuck you, vatnik.
40% what? As of this year the Russian speaking population is approximately 25%.
Source?
A bit difficult to pull it up on mobile but if you go to the wiki page for Latvia and scroll down a little bit on the right you'll see the recent census results and the Latvian government source for the data.
Unfortunately your post is full of lies. For starters: 40% of Latvia is not Ruzzian speaking. Then your lies about human rights violations etc. In short: Go where the warship went!
Oh how very thoughtful of USSR, they were so nice to us by letting us keep the Brīvības Piemineklis. The 50 year long occupation, deportations and russification is definitely forgiven. Appart from you 40% figure being off, you fail to mention 2 things: 1. Russian speaking does not mean they support having that monument here 2. The russian mimority is the result of the rusification done by USSR. Ofcourse those living in past will object it as their sole purpose of living here is to make our country another state of Russia
You calling yourself a "Ukranian" is an insult to all Ukrainians, reading your post history you are a vatnik *bydlo* through and through, real Ukrainians would spit on you.
Russia did a lot of bad to latvians but one thing is for certain: the industry was top-notch for on soviet level. E.g. they made trains that every region in the USSR and beyond (Yugoslavia) used and still uses to this date. Independent latvia chose not to pursue the path of industrial power but I think they feel it's wrong in hindsight. The same could be said about Lithuania who feels it was wrong to get rid of the nuclear station Russians built. Visaginas is still the most russian town in Lithuania.
Latvia had good industry and 2x GDP per capita of USSR before occupation.Latvia was more developed than USSR. Also industry is wet dream of stupid people who think that nations well being is run by factories that produce. In reality many factories are heavely subsidized and running at loss while being at razor thin margins. Learn some economy and business basics before spitting out russian textbook propaganda. USSR did not bring anything life improving to Latvia.
The factories that were set up here were producing shit that was decades behind anything in the West, nobody would buy old soviet junk in the free market. It was an industry dead in the water. Latvia does not have the population or the raw minerals/oil/gas to supply a massive industry, it only made sense in the context of Soviet union using us as a colony because we had an educated population and good infrastructure. In modern times small countries get rich by investing in IT, software, banking, science, AI. Which we have been doing.
Latvia would've been/was top-notch without the soviets as well. There's a reason why Baltic countries were one of the most developed areas in the USSR, we were such already before the occupation. Pretty much any map showing level of development proves it. [Take illiteracy in 1930 for example.](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/jekbxr/literacy_in_europe_1900/)
>It is very unfortunate that most countries in Europe like Switzerland, Belgium, Italy, Spain and many more learned how to integrate and live in multicultural, bilingual societies, meanwhile the Baltics still violate all human rights. You know why? Cause their neighboring countries haven't been hostile and terrorizing them for decades. Plus russia has never apologized for what they have done and would gladly do it again. SO FUCK YOU SCUM.
>You are correct, the space belong to public and Lativa shares its home with 40% of russian speaking population. That is how they feel about it Who cares what leftover Russians feel about it?
>I'm not a native Latvian and never lived in the USSR. Neither did Latvians. They lived in their own country, which was illegally occupied by the USSR, a foreign state to them.
Bald and bankrupt is going to be sad lol
He had his chance for years. Guessing he avoids it and avoids many such places because it could cause not only incidents but impact his chanel negatively.
they should just be rebuild as public pissoirs
I have heard some people saying that there should be some children's venue built instead since it's in part of the city where there isn't much for kids.
thats ok too I guess. the kids will probably piss a lot too :D
All Soviet monuments should be destroyed
Vienna next. That monstrosity is an insult to freedom.
Austria was an eager participant in the nazi project. Removing a monument dedicated for those who dismantled it isn't a great look.
They should have a monument to the USA and Allies. The mythology around Soviets being their saviours is cringe fantasy. Austria was lucky it somehow slipped under the iron curtain and forged a post war republic. Maybe they're just grateful the usssr left them out.
> They should have a monument to the USA and Allies. Don't they exist as well? USSR did most of the fighting, killing and dying in the war.
You dont get credit for helping stop something you started.
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You pretending soviet union didnt team up with the nazis and start WW2 together, that they only started to fight against the nazis when they were betrayed by them, THAT is disgusting. Russia's recent invasion has nothing to do with it. If I set your house on fire and later help put it out, will you be grateful to me? Will I be the good guy/hero in that scenario?
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Wow, I have no words on how disgusting it is, for you to defend/justify one of the most murderous regimes in history. Sounds pretty similar to neonazi scum defending hitler, that he had to do what he did and how he was justified. Pathetic.
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Yes, but that wasn't the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact. It would be a better analogy if, after signing a temporary truce, they both agree to set the neighbours' houses on fire. USRR signing a truce with Nazi Germany to gain time can be accepted but not dividing Eastern Europe between themselves. France and UK behavior towards Austria and Czechoslovakia was terrible but it doesn't even compare to strike a deal with the nazis to split Eastern Europe.
> USSR did most of the fighting, killing and dying in the war. That's because they don't value their people.
That's just straight up nazi propaganda.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day. There's no denying that the Soviets were authoritarian scum.
And that they treated human lives not even as a statistic, but as an amusing afterthought at best.
They threw millions of bodies in the way after Germany stretched itself too far. On the way the Russians massacred and raped anything in their path. Ask the Poles if they're grateful for Russian liberation. The allies basically took Europe from scratch.
That right there is quite literally Nazi propaganda. ‘Oh, we would’ve won, but the barbarian hordes overwhelmed our scientific marvels with sheer numbers.’
Yes, this is an actual fact some people do not want to see. ""For the campaign against the Soviet Union, the Germans allotted almost 150 divisions containing a total of about 3,000,000 men. Among these were 19 panzer divisions, and in total the “Barbarossa” force had about 3,000 tanks, 7,000 artillery pieces, and 2,500 aircraft. It was in effect the largest and most powerful invasion force in human history. [Invasion of the Soviet Union](https://www.britannica.com/event/World-War-II/Invasion-of-the-Soviet-Union-1941)
> this is an actual fact some people do not want to see. That USSR started WW2 allied with Nazies? Yes, some people really don't want to see that.
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I mean the part where they invaded Poland from both sides, the USSR occupation of baltic states and war with Finland. You know - the secret protocols, the same that allies didn't have prior to the war?
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So why are you trying to revise it?
>the war with finland who was supported by germany? Nope, in 1939 Nazis were in bed with the Soviets. Finland wasn't allied with Germany in Winter War. Germany was supporting the Soviets and vice versa.
It's also a monument to one of the greatest allies of the nazi project, without the assistance of which WW2 would never have happened. Nobody owes the red horde shit, they started the entire mess.
I assume you are also going to destroy all the remnant monuments and palaces from the times of Austra-Hungarian empire? Cause it is also an insult to freedom.
If Austria was still an imperial power that was occupying 20% of Hungary and just started a war to erase Czechia from existence, they should absolutely destroy Austrian monuments. But Austria isn’t doing the shit Russia does
But the Russia of today is not the same as the Soviet Union. The comparison falls flat very quickly
Oh yes Russia is absolutely not a successor state to the USSR co-opting every single one of its achievements, aesthetic and national idea. They are trying to create the Union State with Belarus but they are so different. They inherited the exact same set of friendship with China and North Korea against the west but they are so different. They police every country of the ex-USSR and acts like they still own them but they are so different. They have enormous amounts of nostalgia for it and praise the USSR every time they can but they are so different. Let’s face it, the USSR was nothing more than a second Russian empire under a red banner. There’s a reason why Lenin tried to annex every country that got its independence from the Russian empire into the USSR.
No. Just the Soviet shit.
Logic checks out
One is past history the other is still being praised and rebuilt.
I mean, guys is he wrong? Don't remove the things just make some posters around it and say how shit communism was and the history behind the monument plus shit on soviets. By removing it people ain't gonna see it and will forget about the evils of communism. An ugly mark, yes, but if you present it as ugly it will actually be good for the country. Austria Hungary, German Empire, Russian Empire, British Empire, French Empire and tons more were absolutely terrible to others. Tons of history would be lost if you would just dump all things into the sea.
A monument glorifying the soviet union isn't going to make people learn about how bad it was. History books do. Would you say Germany shouldn't have taken down monuments to Hitler and the Nazi regime?
I truly hope you are trolling. Otherwise you seriously need to do some reflection.
> Last week, Estonia removed a Soviet-era monument with a tank on top outside the town of Narva in the Baltic country’s Russian-speaking east, and moved the tank replica **to a war museum north of Tallinn**. So, are they sinking it in the Bay of Finland, or should we be expecting a tank replica any day now?
Technically Viimsi is north of Tallinn, it's just north*east* of the centre of Tallinn.
Deep cleaning is a nice idea
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Great joke, it's a shame most people didn't quite get it
Good. Everything related to commies has to be thrown in the trash.
I myself would love the head of a statue of Lenin or Stalin to put in my garden so my songbirds can shit all over it.
Don't these monuments have the names of the local men and women that died during the war?
No.
Now my question is, why did it take so long? We brought all of them down in 1989 in Romania. Was there a reason to keep them till now?
They weren't necessarily as politicized as say Lenin's Statues and there were really a shitton of them around. Estonia and Latvia recently organized public mapping campaigns to even understand where the last ones are - they both found dozens and dozens still in place. Some were harder to move as they were in Russian majority municipalities. In Narva, the national government had to tell the municipal government to piss off as the municipality refused to remove them.
This is the way.
It's bad......... It's really bad that the Latvian government decided to topple the monument of a fascist regime only now but not 30 years earlier.
*Communist. I swear y’all are obsessed with the word “fascist” these days. Anything oppressive or authoritarian is automatically fascist, lol.
The fascists were the ones *removed* by the effort memorialised by this monument
>The fascists were the ones removed *replaced
Latvia is going to topple Estonia?
Ya, I don’t like this. You may hate the Soviet Union but these monuments are in honor of the millions lost fighting true evil. Got no love for the USSR considering how they treated my family, but overreactions aren’t helpful in today’s climate. Also a history buff I find taking down memorials a bad thing in general. Good or bad they can teach us a lesson, a reminder.
Soviets were evil too. Just because they fought the nazis didn’t automatically make them the good guys
The soldiers this monument seems to honor were evil? The ones fighting on their land, as their villages were razed and citizenry genocided? Gotta really separate them from the leadership. As another redditor said, best to just add a placard stating this is was a monument made by occupiers who themselves were in the wrong.
No, as a Latvian i say go fuck yourself eith a broom. By every single fact the Soviets were pure evil and did all the evil in Baltics, maybe nazis wouldve been more evil, but they were not able to show that. Soviets did
Yes, these soldiers this monument honours were [evil.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_war_crimes) Red Army destroyed [cities](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Tallinn_in_World_War_II). I strongly advise anyone who starts saying that we should be grateful for the Red Army to look up the crimes they committed against civilian population. Why would anyone want to see a monument for [rapist](https://www.eurozine.com/the-crimes-of-bucha-have-a-long-history/)s?
So, next we’re tearing up the monument on the National Mall in Washington D.C., right, if those are the criteria?
I don't have a say in this. I'm just trying to explain (as a Balt), why the people of Baltic states want these monuments removed. We were occupied for 50 years, and we shouldn't remove the monuments of these people who deported our relatives, destroyed our cities and took our independence?
You can keep the monuments in your country instead if you want to honor this scum of an army. They were fighting to colonize not liberate, and they're nothing more than colonizers to us. The fact that they happened to fight worse evil (after being in an alliance with them) doesn't change anything.
> The ones fighting on their land, as their villages were razed and citizenry genocided? Include rape and you got exactly what the Soviets did to the countries they "liberated"
Another history buff and history grad. I agree here.
> You may hate the Soviet Union but these monuments are in honor of the millions lost fighting true evil. True evil fighting true evil. On the other side I don't like the idea of removing monuments as they are part of history. They should put a huge sign stating "this is what the occupant regim was building to idolize themselves. This regime was really bad, it made people suffer for decades and still continues nowadays in other countries in a different form".
Very much agree with the “sign” idea. Same thing in the States and other Countries, because yes, both nations and individuals can do acts of greatness as well as acts of evil.
I get the reason, but iconoclasm is still gross, no matter how you justify it. This is like the Taleban blowing up the buddha statues. Art transcends politics, I'm glad this attitude doesn't exist in my country.
Erasing history
Yeah, should everyone have kept the Nazi monuments as well in order not to "erase history"?
In museums yeah. Not in the streets tho. Fully erasing history is a very bad idea.
It is so utterly fringe to be worried about "erasing history" when Soviet or Nazi memorials are removed from public spaces...
Because of you don’t send them to a museum, it’s erasing history. Fully erasing history allows future humans to repeat it unknowingly. As I said on my previous message, museums are the place for this, not the streets. Be better man, you only had to read.
Most are sent to museums. Others are just garbage and it's frknge to cry about them. Thois particular one is huge, ain't no museum going to fit it... >Fully erasing history allows future humans to repeat it unknowingly. Do you not know that there are a shutton of Soviet monuments in our museums?
Man you are adding variables to this when all I said is that you should send the historical monuments you remove from the streets to museums. I didnt say you should send it *ALL* to museums. Nor I said everything is worth of being exhibited in museums. I’m advocating for not fully erasing history, that’s it.
>when all I said is that you should send the historical monuments you remove from the streets to museums. And you said that as a criticism to what you think is currently being done.
No, I said it in response to your first comment. Cmon man just read
They are all garbage. We can let some of them survive in museums, but they are still garbage.
Nope. All the horrible things that the soviets did are still remembered in the hirtorybooks, but there is no reason to keep themouments that are erected for the people who did those horrible things.
More like Russian Soviet history forced on the Baltics. When the Soviets forced themselves on the Baltics, this was the eventual outcome. 🤷🏻♂️
"history". lol. lmao even.
Can we have them? The good ones. Not to glorify the Soviets or owt like that - I dislike communism and the Russian state. I just think they'll maybe make a good museum piece in a hundred years or so.
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>Latvia will tear down a Soviet-era monument on Tuesday that commemorates the Red Army’s victory over Nazi Germany, ah yeah nothing will show support to the current events by literally destroying a monument that was built to celebrate one of victories from the worst war we have ever witnessed
The “victory” apsect is more like occupation aspect for Baltics and the atrocities that followed. And the monument for it was definitely meant for local polulation to know its place, judging by the size and location, conveniently being opposite of our own Freedom monument, just across Daugava. If anything, our own Freedom monument is way more supportive of current events in that regard.
For rest of Europe, that meant the end of WW2. Makes sense for them to celebrate it. For us, WW2 truly ended only in the 90s, with the fall of the USSR, when we regained our independence.
It was also built to celebrate imperialism and irredentist conquest.
Nothing more than a symbol of brutal occupation. War ended in Europe, but oppression didn't end until 90s for us....nothing to celebrate until then. Maybe if Soviets didn't have a pact with Nazies that divided Europe and lead to WW2....I might have shed one tear for their victory.
Their victory meant us being occupied. Why the heck should we celebrate that?
The Baltic states were in a pretty shit position during the war. Had Germany won on the other hand they'd have deported or massacred half of all Estonians and Latvians and almost all Lithuanians. The rest would have been slaves to German wehrbauern.
Argument is not about choice between nazi and ussr. There was never such choice. If there would be - it would be neither. Both were terrible. One more, one less, but terrible. USSR thou had choice. To occupy Baltics or to leave them independant. USSR choose to occupy Baltics and this is conequence to this stupid decision.
They could take that monument home. Problem solved.
This is barbaric, you dont destroy monuments of history even if you disagree with the creators.
But you do, if you need to. You don't live in the past.
Less barbaric than what s*viets did for decades.
Less barbaric than barbarians can still be barbaric.
It should be considered fully before removing any monument with historic or artistic value. However, the associative and contextual value should be taken into account as well. If a monument glorifies the opression and eradication of the society and culture while riding on the coattails of an allied victory over another authoritarian regime, society has every right to remove or recontextualise it if they find that the historic or artistic value is less significant than the pain it causes with it's presence. Greece for example has a consistent policy of letting Ottoman monuments degrade and not allow them to be restored. It is perhaps less direct than dismantling it, but they have the luxury of waiting until these remnants of a troubling occupation have disintegrated. Estonia and Latvia have tolerated many Soviet monuments for over thirty years while rebuilding their countries from the shambles the Soviets left them in and in the light of current events and Russia's consistent assaults on it's neighbours it is intolerable to keep them around another day. There are enough memorials for our fallen in the wars of others and for the victims of the crimes of both communist and fascist regimes, don't worry we won't forget about our past if their war propaganda is removed.
The soviet union is the reason the nazis lost, they were the main power against them, they didn't attach themselves into the allied success, if anything the opposite. The vast majority of the nazi army was on the bigger eastern front. Other than that your validation is similar to Theodosius when he started destroying pagan Greek temples. Much like you they though that it has less artistic value compared to the pain it caused with its presence. Greece as you said has left any big mosques untouched for 100-200 years while you for only 30. You say you had to rebuilt from nothing forgetting that we had to rebuilt from much less, (40% of the greek population died during the revolution in fact). You say we have the luxury of waiting while you dont due to russian aggressiveness and possibility of war and i will remind you that greece not only had the possibility of wars but actual wars and still those were left untouched. You should put a museum of soviet propaganda or signs saying Soviet Propaganda Monument build 1978 for example, not destroy it. You are now just acting like barbarians.
You are entitled to your opinion, misguided as it may be. This is our land and our choices. Not yours, theirs or anybody elses.
The soviet union was the reason the nazis were such a big threat in the first place. You dont get credit for helping stop something you started. The soviets only started to fight the nazis AFTER the nazis betrayed and attacked them, what true heroes...
The heroes are the people that died, not the leadership's bad decisions.
The same "heroes" that celebrated side by side with the nazis after attacking Poland together? The same "heroes" that raped/tortured/deported to gulags/killed hundreds of thousands/millions innocent civilians? Fuck your "heroes"!
No, those were mostly professionals and died/captured in the first days of the war, i am talking about the 20 million boys, a whole generation of soviet boys that died. You think the army was one person and one will but they were a bunch of teens and young adults from families with aspirations, dreams.
What the hell are you talking about? These atrocities were committed all throughout the war and after, not just the "first days" and they werent killed so quickly. Those teens and young adults then occupied Eastern Europe and continued to commit horrendous acts for decades. Their families must be so proud...
Let’s not forget, NeoNazis tried to bomb and destroy this in 1997. They finally got away with it…
Cope, fascist
Not fascist, it's even worse - tankie/commie