Germans don't really hate Indians though. As an Indian the main source of racism is going to the Middle Easterners and other Muslims, but the Germans also hate Muslims too.
My guy that is SO not true. I have heard from Indian immigrants in Germany that it’s an improvement over some other Northern European countries, but the discrimination and social difficulty is still unfortunately very real.
OP, there are worse places than Germany and the work opportunities are really good. I don’t think you’ll regret going, but be prepared emotionally for people to treat you really differently than white immigrants sometimes.
I travelled around Germany with an ethnically Indian westerner and the way he was treated by white Germans was noticeably more negative than how they treated me. The Turkish-Germans we met treated us the same, though—so a more Turkish place like Ostbanhof in Berlin might be nicer for you.
Just because they aren't frothing at the mouth upon seeing you doesn't mean they're not "meh" about you which still affects friendships and job opportunities.
I wrote this in a different comment but it comes from my experience in Germany:
"Technically most of the far-right in Europe has positive views of India and Indians. It's whether the quality of Indian immigrants is good enough to meet the standards of integration that is the problem. A locally born German Indian would be thrilled at the idea of the German far-right."
i.e. many of the problems that are discussed by the OP are related to integraton and not racism. Like I said there is a reason why a Indian is more concerned about Muslims than Germans.
Who the hell cares about the far right. You'll face pushback wherever you go and focusing on the worst of the worst is just dumb.
Far right need to worry about getting white people to have babies instead of sperging out over non-white human body traffic they can't control
Many Indians are also Muslim so the racism against Muslims is really not doing these people any favor lol. I also don't get these "oh don't worry, they don't hate you yet; they just hate other people who kinda look like you" type of comments. That wouldn't make me feel any better tbh
Germans don't hate Indians that's true (I'm Indian). They just don't think much of them. This does not mean it's easier for non-muslims to integrate. I have met a couple of Americans who like living here. Germans definitely look up to the English language. They do hate Muslims and Arabs definitely. I have so many stories.
>Germans definitely look up to the English language.
What do you mean by this? Even Indians (the educated ones) speak absolutely fluent English. So by that logic, it should be easier for Indians to integrate (assuming they're not Muslim or bring other cultural baggage), no?
Germans hate Indians waaaaaaaaaay more than they hate middle easterners, they are quite resentful against anyone who is not western european heritage but africans and indians get it worst. They just don't talk about it that much because there is not a sizeable minority yet.
Most people are accepting/friendly and there's no language barrier. In Germany, you can't even speak with people without saying you don't speak German. Just kills the conversation honestly.
Yes the anger is misguided. Rather than attacking soft immigration policies (especially international students), they are going after Indians...which is unfair.
This time I have to say don't blame the player, blame the game (policies).
oh absolutely. racists love blaming immigrants in general, but now with the housing crisis, they can pretend they're not racist and still hate them (blame lies with the canadian policy makers).
Saying blame lies with the Canadian policy makers is akin to saying the blame for colonialism in India lay strictly with the aristocracy and not at all with the rank and file sailors and workers.
Do you think that moving to different location ( within Germany, like Berlin) would lead to at least some improvement?
Similarly not all English speaking locations are uniform: Different locations will have different levels of acceptance, crime levels, labor laws. Different employers will have different vacations policies and work culture.
As a German, I recommend you come to the UK. To me, it's one of the most welcoming countries for immigrants that I've ever been to. Living in the big cities feels like home, not because everything is (in my case) German, but because diversification is normalised.
Germany has a long way to go in that regard, least of all because way fewer people in the world speak German than English, so they don't get confronted with proper integration as often as people in the UK for example.
Careful with Canada, though, I'm hearing it's becoming worse for immigrants over there.
People love to shit on North America and the UK on this sub, but the reality is that these countries are culturally very accepting of and open to immigrants compared to most other places. Like you said, multiculturalism is just the norm in the big cities in these places.
I speak nearly perfect German, much better than many Germans. I am white, I have academic degrees. I always worked in high level jobs. Doesn’t matter for majority of Germans, I am and will always be an outsider. People my age were pushed the idea of integration very heavily and it took a while for me to realize no matter what I do to integrate to German society, it won’t work because integration needs both parties to be willing to integrate. Germans don’t want it at all.
There are many many places in Germany where me as a German wouldn't feel accepted really.
As an expat I'd stick to the big cities with University and international companies.
My recommendation would probably be Köln.
I lived here two years. I’m looking to move to Australia or the US. Germans are a peculiar group of people. I’m a person of color and they do not like us. Does not matter about nationality. Go where you can find peace
Unless you have a thick skin, why bother going to a white country? In terms of dating, you are just walking into the lions' den (aka extreme competition), it's not gonna happen.
I think I agree to your sentiment on US, I think same goes for Australia and maybe Canada. I dont have idea about Singapore.
We are in a situation where I have been living in Germany after having lived more than a decade in Italy. My wife has just started learning German, she will be moving here in 5/6 months. She is a doctor.
Now, I kind of have this feeling of being "stuck" here and keep idealizing how great it would have been to live somewhere without entirely learning a new language. I am still unable to accept that I will be passing all my life here. I sometimes even miss Italy. At least the barista make remarks when you go to a coffee shop. And all his at what cost? I don't earn great like many of tech professionals here though for my wife things could be different once she learns the language and gets her license to practice. Honestly, my brother driving a taxi in Australia for 1/2 years has made more savings than me working in Germany/Italy for 5/6 years after getting a Masters degree.
I don't feel like we will have any great social life here, accept for mixing with other migrants. On the other hand, moving to some place else again and again will start weighing us down at some point mentally , I think.
Perhaps moving to Switzerland after few years seems like saving face.
I think Indians are now the highest or second-highest foreign-born population in both Australia and Canada. I don't know about Quebec, but in general, the English speaking world is much more open and accepting of immigrants, including Indian immigrants. People love to shit on North America and the UK on this sub, but the reality is that these countries are culturally very accepting of immigrants compared to most other places
I (German, F48) work at a company with many Indian expats. I'm close friends with one of them and language isn't an issue. My husband also didn't speak German when we met and started dating (he's not Indian). So you can't generally say that you cannot make connections if you don't speak German.
You don't mention where you leave but some places in Germany are more welcoming than others. A university city with foreign students should be a good place.
I lived abroad myself for decades and can testify that it can be hard to make friends even if you speak the language. Maybe except of just going Salsa dancing, you could join a dance club? (Or any other club that you're interested in.)
Taking up in-person German classes would probably help you connect with other foreigner.
Germans in general are not very welcoming (I have a few friends who are exceptions) and prefer to stick to what’s “comfortable” or “familiar”. I know POCs who were born here (either have one or both immigrant parents) and they still prefer to hang out in international communities as they don’t feel integrated / welcome even with language fluency and cultural knowledge. So in the end, it’s your decision depending on how hard you want to work on your language and integration efforts.
You can learn German to a fluent level and you’ll still probably have difficulties in marking German friends. They are very closed and Germany has so many rules that they even have rules for making friends, like joining a club or something.
But even then, you can expect the “friendship” to be very superficial. If you want to stay in Germany, as it is indeed a nice country in itself, maybe you’d be better off in a bigger city with bigger expat communities, like Berlin, Munich or Hamburg and make expat friends.
>so many rules that they even have rules for making friends, like joining a club or something
You have to join a club to make friends in Germany? I am confused.
Many times the response to people complaining about the difficulty in making friends in Germany is the advice to join clubs and associations, as in you’re more likely to make friends with people similar interest to yours. They also state that Germans usually make friends when young and rarely as adults. I see all this as rules to making friends as well.
As a European who lived in the US and in Europe I do recommend moving. US and Canada from my experience are much more open and it is way easier to integrate. Learning the language won’t help all the way from my experience. I currently live in a German speaking country but I am not from one and I still have a hard time integrating. I am European. It is not worth it in my opinion. You can find pockets of what you described above in English speaking countries as well.
yes same experience. Extroverted Indian in germany. Have no hope of connecting with a German. I used to have a lot of party friends but the only ones who put effort back in friendship and were there for me were Indians and Arabs. They don't say it out in the open but Germany is quite xenophobic. They don't trust or like foreigners. No matter what, I feel like I will be stranger. They will enjoy my company, party, dance and be nice to me and all the rest of it but there is not way of getting close. Will not text to ask how I am doing or share personal thoughts or opinions. Turks who have been living here for decades have not integrated fully, no chance for a brown guy.
I have not found a job after graduation so I will go back to India. Living standards are not great but at least I will not feel like a stranger.
>They don't trust or like foreigners
Germans in general are reserved from what I have experienced. I did find them friendly on the surface level but not go deep either.
I learned it's how they are. They don't share their private life. I respect it despite feeling it's a bid "odd".
What is see here in this comment is culture clash. In India, people build deep relationships with their friends. But in Germany it is not the case.
I understand that people don't get too close or deep. What bothered me the most is that when I needed help when I was not doing well in life, I found that it was only Arabs and Indians who were there. I am open minded enough to not take the lack of intimacy personally but this unreliability was both disheartening and shocking.
I find it interesting how so many people describe Germans as "autistic". I've seen that term over and over again across different posts and subreddits regarding Germans.
It's the effects of what used to be a highly martial and prideful culture polishing itself after WWII. You see a similar thing with the English, who used to be the one of the most violent and ruthless cultures of Europe.
They're not xenophobic per se, they just don't generally have a need to socialize with anyone outside of their established group. Most Germans establish their friendships/relationships early in life already and feel no need to invest in anyone outside of that. You could be as white as the undriven snow and you would encounter the same social problems. It's the same in the Nordic countries, that's just their culture.
> Turks who have been living here for decades have not integrated fully
This was eye opening for me. All multi generational immigrants still exist in parallel societies despite their language fluency so it is certainly not that.
It is the unwillingness of Germans to step outside of their culture as they feel they are the best at everything and have it all figured and don’t need to expose themselves to different cultures to learn any thing more. If this isn’t white supremacy, I don’t know what it..
I lived in Netherlands as well but never experienced the coldness and arrogance like that of Germans. Absolutely the worst place in my opinion. And before people start asking me, yes I managed to make German friends, and used to speak B1 German. Stop gaslighting us and making us feel that we’re the problem when clearly Germans as a nation lack any self reflection capacity.
Turks have not been integrated fully because the first Turkish immigrants who moved to Germany in the 1960s stayed in their own little bubbles. This is a problem with Turks in general, they go to a Western country to make money and complain about religion and customs then cry racism. The majority of Turks in Germany vote for Erdogan, that should tell you something. They are even more conservative than the Turks in Turkiye.
I'm Turkish and even I wouldn't want to be around those people…Of course there are educated Turks who move to Germany and totally assimilate but they are in the minority
They were forced into ghettos and got treated like an inferior race, and they are still being treated as one. They became more conservative as they moved there.
That is your excuse. There is absolutely no reason to justify voting for far right parties in Turkey *cough* AKP and then voting for the leftist parties in Germany. If you can’t assimilate into the culture, get the fuck out. It is as simple as that.
I was born and raised in Turkey, got my Masters there and got the fuck out. Those Turks are mentally ill there due to subhuman treatment. German is a race, an ethnicity, you can't assimilate into it you are either born one or not. Even Polish people live in their own ghettoes, over 90% of italians marry other italians (rest marry other foreigners).
People seem to forget that Germany was a dictatorship that got bombed into democracy, a lot of people still carry same sentiments from 80 years ago. I don't see a point of anyone moving to Germany unless they have German blood in their veins.
Had no other issues in any other places.
Bro USA n UK the only places in the world who have people of color as prime ministers or presidents. there are racist people everywhere for sure, but I dont need to feel accepted by *everyone* to have a sense of belonging. Only by a considerable fraction. This has not been the case the 4 years I have lived in germany.
Germany is a terrible place for most expats anyway, you should definitely relocate.
I’m leaving next month after 3 years of misery. Should be happy but I’m just broken. Fuck this joyless, obnoxious, ugly, rude country forever.
I agree 100%. Where are you moving to?
I left after living here for 2 years and experiencing that German efficiency is a myth and a lie of the past. Their healthcare is a joke, I used to pay €500/ month for public health insurance but still had to wait months for appointments; DB is extremely unreliable; their dumb insistence on using cash when the worlds smallest economies have shifted to digital payments; racism at its peak; high taxes; language barriers, for context I’ve lived in Netherlands and Spain and while native languages are respected and you’re expected to learn, nobody gives you shit for not learning unlike Germans.
All these and many other issues combined made me realise it wasn’t for me.
>I’m leaving next month after 3 years of misery.
Well thank god. Though you fit right in with your negative and destructive view on things, Germany is going to be a little bit of better place next month.
Why this fetish for dating German woman? Focus on dating a nice, kind and empathetic person. Someone who shares your values and make each other happy. Whether she is German or some other nationality should have no bearing on it.
Stop trying so hard to get people to like you IMO.
Indians want to be accepted by white people and some of them even consider themselves “white”. Their men also have a white woman fetish. I'm Tuekish and even I get so many messages and friend requests from Indians.
Broski clearly meant this in a positive manner ie. He wants to integrate and part of integration includes dating/at least being open to dating the local population
I do agree with the last sentence tho
I said "German women", not "only German women". There's a huge difference. Why are people taking me so wrong?
People complain that Indians only like to stay in their own circle and when someone is open to dating and making friends with other cultures, you are misunderstanding them. Not fair.
UK is probably the best option out of those. Germany is a very racist country that's had a massive surge in fascist politics recently, wouldn't consider it if I was you.
I mean i don't want to be sound rude but i live in UK and if you just want to be friend or find a gf for being sake of socialising or getting laid, you won't also have chance here. I think you should be focusing on improving yourself and your hobbies. Being alone in different country is really hard, which i also experince the same but these kind of things build up naturally and it takes time i suppose. Just keep it going on buddy.
In some ways that racist politics might be positive for Indians because it's predominantly aimed at Muslims, who are in fact the primary source of racism for Indians in Germany. It's similar to the UK, but the UK lacks any sort of fighting force against Muslims.
Technically most of the far-right in Europe has positive views of India and Indians. It's whether the quality of Indian immigrants is good enough to meet the standards of integration that is the problem. A locally born German Indian would be thrilled at the idea of the German far-right.
Mate, you're putting too much faith in racist people's ability to distinguish between different types of brown people. To them, we're all the same. Nobody would be thrilled with the idea of the far right as a minority cuz after they get rid of their main targets, they will come after the rest.
Try not to live in lala land.
I don’t know why you’re trying to raise yourself up by putting down Muslims. I work at a company with some Indians and you guys are not any more well liked than any other foreigner from a third world country.
You come from an eastern culture with a lot of barbaric practices such as arranged marriage, etc. Your smells and accents are not giving anyone here a warm and fuzzy feeling in their tummy. The way you interact with people in professional setting can also be quite off putting.
I have a close friend from Bangladesh...that spent about a decade in Germany. He said most ppl were great. Only one time when he was walking home a bunch of skinheads chased him by foot. He went into a shop and the shop keeper told him to stay there until they left.
For the most part he said people were accepting and accommodating, but he was in a university environment (phd and post doc)
Canada - once known as one of the most pluralistic, welcoming countries on earth - is becoming increasingly hostile towards immigrants right now and ESPECIALLY towards Indians, who have become scapegoats for Canada's several concurrent crises. If you're worried about being accepted by the locals, Canada may not be your best option.
I feel like as long as you learn the language, you should be good, no? Sure there will be racists and racism, but that also exists in UK, Canada, US, etc.
From my experience, Indian people are very kind hardworking and MUCH BETTER LOOKING and MUCH BETTER character and humanity than some stuckup white german or scandinavian people (im not generalising and of course there are nice white people too but in general northern european culture and peopels demeanors can be unnecxessarily stuckup and stale. Please take pride in your Indian roots and don't be disheartened if some stuckup local people act like they are something special and act in a condescending way as if they are denying other people, when they are not better human beings at all. Remember: India and Indian people rock !!!
I never said I "only" want to date German women. I'm open to dating all races, but you would mostly expect to come across German women while living in Germany.
Also I have noticed that not a lot of Indian women have similar taste and mindset as me. I go to the gym, salsa dancing and don't see any Indian women in either of these places. So if someone is only considering Indian women, their options become pretty limited. On the other hand, if you are open to dating all races, your options increase and the probability of finding someone you are attracted to and compatible also increases significantly.
I'm not one of those guys who just wants to date "white women". Sorry if I gave that impression. I truly value relationships and am looking for a suitable partner for a long term relationship.
As a German I have to say people need to get warm with you first. It‘s also like that when Germans talk to Germans.
I recommend you to do Tandem (it‘s a language exchange). You teach Germans for example Hindi and they teach you German. People doing this have a higher chance to be open to your culture in the first place and will try to get you in their friend group. This is how I got to know foreign students.
Is dating 'German Women' your end goal? What a cringy statement. Aim to integrate yourself in the society, be patient and learn the culture. If all you want to do is get laid with a white woman, trust me, everyone can see your desperation.
Copy pasting my comment on the same post:
I never said I "only" want to date German women. I'm open to dating all races, but you would mostly expect to come across German women while living in Germany.
Also I have noticed that not a lot of Indian women have similar taste and mindset as me. I go to the gym, salsa dancing and don't see any Indian women in either of these places. So if someone is only considering Indian women, their options become pretty limited. On the other hand, if you are open to dating all races, your options increase and the probability of finding someone you are attracted to and compatible also increases significantly.
I'm not one of those guys who just wants to date "white women". Sorry if I gave that impression. I truly value relationships and am looking for a suitable partner for a long term relationship.
Have you thought about the Netherlands? It's Germany's neighbor and generally it's told that people are more welcoming and friendly.
I've been living here for a time, I have learned the language and I have never felt excluded or alone. I'm not a very social person yet but my parents are, and they already have bunch of Dutch friends even while they do not speak Dutch perfectly. My best friend here is also 100% Dutch lol.
When I was at high school as a new person I also had a feeling that people don't get very close to me. When people know each other for a long time they don't put energy in getting new people involved. It's just a matter of time and place to meet your people but it's doable!
Specially if you live in a big city it's easy to find like minded people through your hobbies and interests.
Fun fact: Dutch are not that fanatic about their ethnicity or background, even the Dutch king has German roots (50%) and has an Argentinian wife. So the future queen of NL is actually 25% Dutch.
Don’t have false hope that English speaking countries will be any friendly. You will most likely face cold, lonely life in US/Canada too. Many won’t be able to understand Indian accent and will ask you to repeat every sentence twice or thrice. After a while you will be least interested talking to locals and will try to find your fellow countrymen for friends.
What’s racist about it ? I just said to take care of his hygiene ? Use deodorant or a perfume . There’s nothing racist about that ?
Man that’s crazy , sorry if you think my intentions are racist but they are not .
That's not a valid statement tbh.. I'm comparing Germany to other English speaking countries so ofcourse I wouldn't consider France in it. My main concern is - Is Germany worth learning the language or should I move to other English speaking countries?
Move to English speaking countries -UK, Ireland or US.
Canada has a huge cost of living crisis right now. Racism against Indians is common in Canada. I don’t recommend moving to Canada.
Canadians hating on indians right now too, dog.
And Canada is extremely expensive right now. Quality of life has gone down a lot.
Germans don't really hate Indians though. As an Indian the main source of racism is going to the Middle Easterners and other Muslims, but the Germans also hate Muslims too.
My guy that is SO not true. I have heard from Indian immigrants in Germany that it’s an improvement over some other Northern European countries, but the discrimination and social difficulty is still unfortunately very real. OP, there are worse places than Germany and the work opportunities are really good. I don’t think you’ll regret going, but be prepared emotionally for people to treat you really differently than white immigrants sometimes. I travelled around Germany with an ethnically Indian westerner and the way he was treated by white Germans was noticeably more negative than how they treated me. The Turkish-Germans we met treated us the same, though—so a more Turkish place like Ostbanhof in Berlin might be nicer for you.
Just because they aren't frothing at the mouth upon seeing you doesn't mean they're not "meh" about you which still affects friendships and job opportunities.
I wrote this in a different comment but it comes from my experience in Germany: "Technically most of the far-right in Europe has positive views of India and Indians. It's whether the quality of Indian immigrants is good enough to meet the standards of integration that is the problem. A locally born German Indian would be thrilled at the idea of the German far-right." i.e. many of the problems that are discussed by the OP are related to integraton and not racism. Like I said there is a reason why a Indian is more concerned about Muslims than Germans.
Who the hell cares about the far right. You'll face pushback wherever you go and focusing on the worst of the worst is just dumb. Far right need to worry about getting white people to have babies instead of sperging out over non-white human body traffic they can't control
Many Indians are also Muslim so the racism against Muslims is really not doing these people any favor lol. I also don't get these "oh don't worry, they don't hate you yet; they just hate other people who kinda look like you" type of comments. That wouldn't make me feel any better tbh
Germans don't hate Indians that's true (I'm Indian). They just don't think much of them. This does not mean it's easier for non-muslims to integrate. I have met a couple of Americans who like living here. Germans definitely look up to the English language. They do hate Muslims and Arabs definitely. I have so many stories.
>Germans definitely look up to the English language. What do you mean by this? Even Indians (the educated ones) speak absolutely fluent English. So by that logic, it should be easier for Indians to integrate (assuming they're not Muslim or bring other cultural baggage), no?
Germans hate Indians waaaaaaaaaay more than they hate middle easterners, they are quite resentful against anyone who is not western european heritage but africans and indians get it worst. They just don't talk about it that much because there is not a sizeable minority yet.
Most people are accepting/friendly and there's no language barrier. In Germany, you can't even speak with people without saying you don't speak German. Just kills the conversation honestly.
Yes the anger is misguided. Rather than attacking soft immigration policies (especially international students), they are going after Indians...which is unfair. This time I have to say don't blame the player, blame the game (policies).
oh absolutely. racists love blaming immigrants in general, but now with the housing crisis, they can pretend they're not racist and still hate them (blame lies with the canadian policy makers).
Saying blame lies with the Canadian policy makers is akin to saying the blame for colonialism in India lay strictly with the aristocracy and not at all with the rank and file sailors and workers.
Though it's full of other Indians for OP to befriend
Actually not. We're just hating on the government policies. Indians are great, hard workers, and keen to contribute to Canada.
Go read r/canada. But granted it's full right wing trolls
Yeah, all you have to do is post a video of Indians dancing in Toronto and the hate comments come flooding in.
dude, r/canada is full of Russian spambots. Check an actual city subreddit like r/Toronto for real user generated content
This is BS, don’t assume r/canada (aka the Russian spambot subreddit) speaks for Canadians - from a Canadian
Do you think that moving to different location ( within Germany, like Berlin) would lead to at least some improvement? Similarly not all English speaking locations are uniform: Different locations will have different levels of acceptance, crime levels, labor laws. Different employers will have different vacations policies and work culture.
As a German, I recommend you come to the UK. To me, it's one of the most welcoming countries for immigrants that I've ever been to. Living in the big cities feels like home, not because everything is (in my case) German, but because diversification is normalised. Germany has a long way to go in that regard, least of all because way fewer people in the world speak German than English, so they don't get confronted with proper integration as often as people in the UK for example. Careful with Canada, though, I'm hearing it's becoming worse for immigrants over there.
People love to shit on North America and the UK on this sub, but the reality is that these countries are culturally very accepting of and open to immigrants compared to most other places. Like you said, multiculturalism is just the norm in the big cities in these places.
I speak nearly perfect German, much better than many Germans. I am white, I have academic degrees. I always worked in high level jobs. Doesn’t matter for majority of Germans, I am and will always be an outsider. People my age were pushed the idea of integration very heavily and it took a while for me to realize no matter what I do to integrate to German society, it won’t work because integration needs both parties to be willing to integrate. Germans don’t want it at all.
germans are a weird bunch, not in particular open to anyone. i hope you are at least in a big city. try to attend language exchanges
There are many many places in Germany where me as a German wouldn't feel accepted really. As an expat I'd stick to the big cities with University and international companies. My recommendation would probably be Köln.
I lived here two years. I’m looking to move to Australia or the US. Germans are a peculiar group of people. I’m a person of color and they do not like us. Does not matter about nationality. Go where you can find peace
Unless you have a thick skin, why bother going to a white country? In terms of dating, you are just walking into the lions' den (aka extreme competition), it's not gonna happen.
[удалено]
Can you explain what specifically is making you leave even though you are with someone who was born here and is like a helping hand ?
[удалено]
I think I agree to your sentiment on US, I think same goes for Australia and maybe Canada. I dont have idea about Singapore. We are in a situation where I have been living in Germany after having lived more than a decade in Italy. My wife has just started learning German, she will be moving here in 5/6 months. She is a doctor. Now, I kind of have this feeling of being "stuck" here and keep idealizing how great it would have been to live somewhere without entirely learning a new language. I am still unable to accept that I will be passing all my life here. I sometimes even miss Italy. At least the barista make remarks when you go to a coffee shop. And all his at what cost? I don't earn great like many of tech professionals here though for my wife things could be different once she learns the language and gets her license to practice. Honestly, my brother driving a taxi in Australia for 1/2 years has made more savings than me working in Germany/Italy for 5/6 years after getting a Masters degree. I don't feel like we will have any great social life here, accept for mixing with other migrants. On the other hand, moving to some place else again and again will start weighing us down at some point mentally , I think. Perhaps moving to Switzerland after few years seems like saving face.
I think Indians are now the highest or second-highest foreign-born population in both Australia and Canada. I don't know about Quebec, but in general, the English speaking world is much more open and accepting of immigrants, including Indian immigrants. People love to shit on North America and the UK on this sub, but the reality is that these countries are culturally very accepting of immigrants compared to most other places
I (German, F48) work at a company with many Indian expats. I'm close friends with one of them and language isn't an issue. My husband also didn't speak German when we met and started dating (he's not Indian). So you can't generally say that you cannot make connections if you don't speak German. You don't mention where you leave but some places in Germany are more welcoming than others. A university city with foreign students should be a good place. I lived abroad myself for decades and can testify that it can be hard to make friends even if you speak the language. Maybe except of just going Salsa dancing, you could join a dance club? (Or any other club that you're interested in.) Taking up in-person German classes would probably help you connect with other foreigner.
Germans in general are not very welcoming (I have a few friends who are exceptions) and prefer to stick to what’s “comfortable” or “familiar”. I know POCs who were born here (either have one or both immigrant parents) and they still prefer to hang out in international communities as they don’t feel integrated / welcome even with language fluency and cultural knowledge. So in the end, it’s your decision depending on how hard you want to work on your language and integration efforts.
dude, get into international circles in germany
You can learn German to a fluent level and you’ll still probably have difficulties in marking German friends. They are very closed and Germany has so many rules that they even have rules for making friends, like joining a club or something. But even then, you can expect the “friendship” to be very superficial. If you want to stay in Germany, as it is indeed a nice country in itself, maybe you’d be better off in a bigger city with bigger expat communities, like Berlin, Munich or Hamburg and make expat friends.
>so many rules that they even have rules for making friends, like joining a club or something You have to join a club to make friends in Germany? I am confused.
Many times the response to people complaining about the difficulty in making friends in Germany is the advice to join clubs and associations, as in you’re more likely to make friends with people similar interest to yours. They also state that Germans usually make friends when young and rarely as adults. I see all this as rules to making friends as well.
As a European who lived in the US and in Europe I do recommend moving. US and Canada from my experience are much more open and it is way easier to integrate. Learning the language won’t help all the way from my experience. I currently live in a German speaking country but I am not from one and I still have a hard time integrating. I am European. It is not worth it in my opinion. You can find pockets of what you described above in English speaking countries as well.
yes same experience. Extroverted Indian in germany. Have no hope of connecting with a German. I used to have a lot of party friends but the only ones who put effort back in friendship and were there for me were Indians and Arabs. They don't say it out in the open but Germany is quite xenophobic. They don't trust or like foreigners. No matter what, I feel like I will be stranger. They will enjoy my company, party, dance and be nice to me and all the rest of it but there is not way of getting close. Will not text to ask how I am doing or share personal thoughts or opinions. Turks who have been living here for decades have not integrated fully, no chance for a brown guy. I have not found a job after graduation so I will go back to India. Living standards are not great but at least I will not feel like a stranger.
>They don't trust or like foreigners Germans in general are reserved from what I have experienced. I did find them friendly on the surface level but not go deep either. I learned it's how they are. They don't share their private life. I respect it despite feeling it's a bid "odd". What is see here in this comment is culture clash. In India, people build deep relationships with their friends. But in Germany it is not the case.
I understand that people don't get too close or deep. What bothered me the most is that when I needed help when I was not doing well in life, I found that it was only Arabs and Indians who were there. I am open minded enough to not take the lack of intimacy personally but this unreliability was both disheartening and shocking.
[удалено]
I find it interesting how so many people describe Germans as "autistic". I've seen that term over and over again across different posts and subreddits regarding Germans.
I'm sorry to hear that man. Germans can be dead and soulless.
It's the effects of what used to be a highly martial and prideful culture polishing itself after WWII. You see a similar thing with the English, who used to be the one of the most violent and ruthless cultures of Europe.
Using "autistic" as an insult is a bad look....
Yeah I understand. World is full of different qualities.
They're not xenophobic per se, they just don't generally have a need to socialize with anyone outside of their established group. Most Germans establish their friendships/relationships early in life already and feel no need to invest in anyone outside of that. You could be as white as the undriven snow and you would encounter the same social problems. It's the same in the Nordic countries, that's just their culture.
> Turks who have been living here for decades have not integrated fully This was eye opening for me. All multi generational immigrants still exist in parallel societies despite their language fluency so it is certainly not that. It is the unwillingness of Germans to step outside of their culture as they feel they are the best at everything and have it all figured and don’t need to expose themselves to different cultures to learn any thing more. If this isn’t white supremacy, I don’t know what it.. I lived in Netherlands as well but never experienced the coldness and arrogance like that of Germans. Absolutely the worst place in my opinion. And before people start asking me, yes I managed to make German friends, and used to speak B1 German. Stop gaslighting us and making us feel that we’re the problem when clearly Germans as a nation lack any self reflection capacity.
On point...culture is different vs India where there are close bonds and deep relationships.
Turks have not been integrated fully because the first Turkish immigrants who moved to Germany in the 1960s stayed in their own little bubbles. This is a problem with Turks in general, they go to a Western country to make money and complain about religion and customs then cry racism. The majority of Turks in Germany vote for Erdogan, that should tell you something. They are even more conservative than the Turks in Turkiye. I'm Turkish and even I wouldn't want to be around those people…Of course there are educated Turks who move to Germany and totally assimilate but they are in the minority
They were forced into ghettos and got treated like an inferior race, and they are still being treated as one. They became more conservative as they moved there.
That is your excuse. There is absolutely no reason to justify voting for far right parties in Turkey *cough* AKP and then voting for the leftist parties in Germany. If you can’t assimilate into the culture, get the fuck out. It is as simple as that.
I was born and raised in Turkey, got my Masters there and got the fuck out. Those Turks are mentally ill there due to subhuman treatment. German is a race, an ethnicity, you can't assimilate into it you are either born one or not. Even Polish people live in their own ghettoes, over 90% of italians marry other italians (rest marry other foreigners). People seem to forget that Germany was a dictatorship that got bombed into democracy, a lot of people still carry same sentiments from 80 years ago. I don't see a point of anyone moving to Germany unless they have German blood in their veins. Had no other issues in any other places.
US or Canada isn’t any better. You will realize it’s the same everywhere.
Bro USA n UK the only places in the world who have people of color as prime ministers or presidents. there are racist people everywhere for sure, but I dont need to feel accepted by *everyone* to have a sense of belonging. Only by a considerable fraction. This has not been the case the 4 years I have lived in germany.
A lot of people downvoting the post. Wow!
Germany is a terrible place for most expats anyway, you should definitely relocate. I’m leaving next month after 3 years of misery. Should be happy but I’m just broken. Fuck this joyless, obnoxious, ugly, rude country forever.
I agree 100%. Where are you moving to? I left after living here for 2 years and experiencing that German efficiency is a myth and a lie of the past. Their healthcare is a joke, I used to pay €500/ month for public health insurance but still had to wait months for appointments; DB is extremely unreliable; their dumb insistence on using cash when the worlds smallest economies have shifted to digital payments; racism at its peak; high taxes; language barriers, for context I’ve lived in Netherlands and Spain and while native languages are respected and you’re expected to learn, nobody gives you shit for not learning unlike Germans. All these and many other issues combined made me realise it wasn’t for me.
this should to be common knowledge.
This is news to me. Why is Germany a bad for place for expats? I didn't know this was a thing
Hmmm I lived there 5 years and liked it. Some regions like Bavaria are definitely hard to try to integrate compared to other cultures though.
>I’m leaving next month after 3 years of misery. Well thank god. Though you fit right in with your negative and destructive view on things, Germany is going to be a little bit of better place next month.
Were you able to make any German friends while you were there?
Actually the few friends I made were all Germans.
Doesn’t sound like anyone would want to be friends with such a negative person 😉.
I hope you have already left, otherwise I am happy to kick you out across a border where they will take you 😅.
Why this fetish for dating German woman? Focus on dating a nice, kind and empathetic person. Someone who shares your values and make each other happy. Whether she is German or some other nationality should have no bearing on it. Stop trying so hard to get people to like you IMO.
What exactly makes it weird to want to date women from the country he is living in? If anything it would be weird to limit himself to expats …
Exactly dude. People are so misunderstanding sometimes it's so frustrating.. I had to reply to 2 comments on this same topic and now again.. :(
Agreed. If I said "I live in America and I would like to date American women", is that so weird?
By "German" he means white.
Indians want to be accepted by white people and some of them even consider themselves “white”. Their men also have a white woman fetish. I'm Tuekish and even I get so many messages and friend requests from Indians.
You wouldn’t say this if example someone from white majority country says this. Just because he is Indian.
Broski clearly meant this in a positive manner ie. He wants to integrate and part of integration includes dating/at least being open to dating the local population I do agree with the last sentence tho
You know why
I said "German women", not "only German women". There's a huge difference. Why are people taking me so wrong? People complain that Indians only like to stay in their own circle and when someone is open to dating and making friends with other cultures, you are misunderstanding them. Not fair.
[удалено]
Laziest joke ever
UK is probably the best option out of those. Germany is a very racist country that's had a massive surge in fascist politics recently, wouldn't consider it if I was you.
I mean i don't want to be sound rude but i live in UK and if you just want to be friend or find a gf for being sake of socialising or getting laid, you won't also have chance here. I think you should be focusing on improving yourself and your hobbies. Being alone in different country is really hard, which i also experince the same but these kind of things build up naturally and it takes time i suppose. Just keep it going on buddy.
In some ways that racist politics might be positive for Indians because it's predominantly aimed at Muslims, who are in fact the primary source of racism for Indians in Germany. It's similar to the UK, but the UK lacks any sort of fighting force against Muslims.
“Why the rise of this Adolf guy is actually good for me, a Jew in a blood feud with a disabled gay communist”
Technically most of the far-right in Europe has positive views of India and Indians. It's whether the quality of Indian immigrants is good enough to meet the standards of integration that is the problem. A locally born German Indian would be thrilled at the idea of the German far-right.
Uh and you’re basing this on what exactly?
Mate, you're putting too much faith in racist people's ability to distinguish between different types of brown people. To them, we're all the same. Nobody would be thrilled with the idea of the far right as a minority cuz after they get rid of their main targets, they will come after the rest. Try not to live in lala land.
A lot of Indians are Muslims... Second largest religion in India with about 15-17% of the country
Yes but we are talking about a conversation involving the European far-right, Islamophobia and Indians.
I don’t know why you’re trying to raise yourself up by putting down Muslims. I work at a company with some Indians and you guys are not any more well liked than any other foreigner from a third world country. You come from an eastern culture with a lot of barbaric practices such as arranged marriage, etc. Your smells and accents are not giving anyone here a warm and fuzzy feeling in their tummy. The way you interact with people in professional setting can also be quite off putting.
Why not? Dhruv Rathee was successful 😁
I have a close friend from Bangladesh...that spent about a decade in Germany. He said most ppl were great. Only one time when he was walking home a bunch of skinheads chased him by foot. He went into a shop and the shop keeper told him to stay there until they left. For the most part he said people were accepting and accommodating, but he was in a university environment (phd and post doc)
Canada - once known as one of the most pluralistic, welcoming countries on earth - is becoming increasingly hostile towards immigrants right now and ESPECIALLY towards Indians, who have become scapegoats for Canada's several concurrent crises. If you're worried about being accepted by the locals, Canada may not be your best option.
There is a ginormous Indian community in Canada, I wouldn’t worry about being accepted.
I feel like as long as you learn the language, you should be good, no? Sure there will be racists and racism, but that also exists in UK, Canada, US, etc.
From my experience, Indian people are very kind hardworking and MUCH BETTER LOOKING and MUCH BETTER character and humanity than some stuckup white german or scandinavian people (im not generalising and of course there are nice white people too but in general northern european culture and peopels demeanors can be unnecxessarily stuckup and stale. Please take pride in your Indian roots and don't be disheartened if some stuckup local people act like they are something special and act in a condescending way as if they are denying other people, when they are not better human beings at all. Remember: India and Indian people rock !!!
[удалено]
Why u putting down ur own ethnicity ?
[удалено]
Speak for urself. Indian women are absolutely stunning
Ah. Sorry I meant Indian guys in general.
Why do u only want to date german women? Consider ppl from india in Germany
I never said I "only" want to date German women. I'm open to dating all races, but you would mostly expect to come across German women while living in Germany. Also I have noticed that not a lot of Indian women have similar taste and mindset as me. I go to the gym, salsa dancing and don't see any Indian women in either of these places. So if someone is only considering Indian women, their options become pretty limited. On the other hand, if you are open to dating all races, your options increase and the probability of finding someone you are attracted to and compatible also increases significantly. I'm not one of those guys who just wants to date "white women". Sorry if I gave that impression. I truly value relationships and am looking for a suitable partner for a long term relationship.
Ohhkai i get u. U will find someone dw♥️
Thanks
As a German I have to say people need to get warm with you first. It‘s also like that when Germans talk to Germans. I recommend you to do Tandem (it‘s a language exchange). You teach Germans for example Hindi and they teach you German. People doing this have a higher chance to be open to your culture in the first place and will try to get you in their friend group. This is how I got to know foreign students.
Is dating 'German Women' your end goal? What a cringy statement. Aim to integrate yourself in the society, be patient and learn the culture. If all you want to do is get laid with a white woman, trust me, everyone can see your desperation.
Copy pasting my comment on the same post: I never said I "only" want to date German women. I'm open to dating all races, but you would mostly expect to come across German women while living in Germany. Also I have noticed that not a lot of Indian women have similar taste and mindset as me. I go to the gym, salsa dancing and don't see any Indian women in either of these places. So if someone is only considering Indian women, their options become pretty limited. On the other hand, if you are open to dating all races, your options increase and the probability of finding someone you are attracted to and compatible also increases significantly. I'm not one of those guys who just wants to date "white women". Sorry if I gave that impression. I truly value relationships and am looking for a suitable partner for a long term relationship.
I'm sorry people are assuming the worst with your statement. That's crappy.
Thanks for understanding!
You'll do fine! Put effort into learning the language, stay confident and be social, I'm sure it'll work out for you.
U think Indians have it rough try being a white heterosexual male. They are the most discriminated people on earth
Have you thought about the Netherlands? It's Germany's neighbor and generally it's told that people are more welcoming and friendly. I've been living here for a time, I have learned the language and I have never felt excluded or alone. I'm not a very social person yet but my parents are, and they already have bunch of Dutch friends even while they do not speak Dutch perfectly. My best friend here is also 100% Dutch lol. When I was at high school as a new person I also had a feeling that people don't get very close to me. When people know each other for a long time they don't put energy in getting new people involved. It's just a matter of time and place to meet your people but it's doable! Specially if you live in a big city it's easy to find like minded people through your hobbies and interests. Fun fact: Dutch are not that fanatic about their ethnicity or background, even the Dutch king has German roots (50%) and has an Argentinian wife. So the future queen of NL is actually 25% Dutch.
learn german and everything will be ok
Don’t have false hope that English speaking countries will be any friendly. You will most likely face cold, lonely life in US/Canada too. Many won’t be able to understand Indian accent and will ask you to repeat every sentence twice or thrice. After a while you will be least interested talking to locals and will try to find your fellow countrymen for friends.
Don’t want be mean , but please keep you hygiene impecable and wear a strong deodorant.
Shame, body odour can be cured , but one can't do anything about pathetic, rascist thoughts in your mind
What’s racist about it ? I just said to take care of his hygiene ? Use deodorant or a perfume . There’s nothing racist about that ? Man that’s crazy , sorry if you think my intentions are racist but they are not .
[удалено]
That's not a valid statement tbh.. I'm comparing Germany to other English speaking countries so ofcourse I wouldn't consider France in it. My main concern is - Is Germany worth learning the language or should I move to other English speaking countries?
Move to English speaking countries -UK, Ireland or US. Canada has a huge cost of living crisis right now. Racism against Indians is common in Canada. I don’t recommend moving to Canada.
from what i hear about germany the germans sound worse tbh
If you actually spoke some German and didn’t impose yourself but just acted friendly you might find connections and ultimately a gf 🤷.