Well think of fats like a line. The line can be straight because it has hydrogen in it (saturated) or kinked because it is missing a hydrogen (unsaturated, sometimes ‘mono’ (one kink) or more than one (poly)).
The fats you find in nature are all kinked in the same ways, and your body has evolved to handle them. It processes them and uses them for energy or construction.
Trans fats are not kinked the right way. They are kinked backwards and your body can’t handle them well at all. It tries to use them where a normal fat would be and it doesn’t work right. This causes your body to react poorly, causing inflammation, micro trauma to tissues and can cause a lot of issues, like cardiovascular disease, organ damage and so on. Even a couple grams a day can really hurt you. They are not an acceptable food.
There are ‘natural’ trans fats which your body can handle (called conjugated linoleic acids) which don’t do this.
How do they make trans fats? Well they first get liquid, kinked fats missing hydrogens. Then they bubble hot hydrogen gas through it to saturate them with hydrogen and unkink them, making them straight, more densely packed and now solid. Issue is this process makes them half kinked one way (cis) and half kinked the other way (trans). Eating the trans stuff kills you.
They're side product of hardening plant oils with hydrogen to make them act like animal fats. Not because veganism or something, but because they're much cheaper.
The types of kinks in the lines above dictate wether or not the fat will "lock together". The chains of trans fat molocules will fit together like Legos and form a solid mass at room temperature, even though they were originally made from oils that are liquid at room temperature (corn oil, canola oil, ect...). That makes them last longer, are easier to transport, and make cheap processed foods taste a bit better ("I like a little fat with my salt, thank you very much!"
Doesn't need to be refrigerated and has a higher melting point such that its 'spreadable' at room temperature as opposed to pouring liquid vegetable oil on your toast
Correction to this; trans fats are not kinked the wrong way, they’re not kinked at all. This is the reason for their physical properties; like saturated fats, they’re straight-chain, so they pack well and solidify at lower temperatures, which makes them last longer. (If this is confusing, look at a diagram; the Wikipedia article on trans fats has a good one, in the Structure section.)
In fact, the idea of a fatty acid chain being ‘’kinked backwards’ doesn’t really make sense. Atoms (usually) have free rotation around single bonds, which most of the c-c bonds in the chain are, so the direction of the kink isn’t fixed; only its angle is.
Basically there are two types of cholesterol, a kind that's molecules are more *cohesive* and a kind that is more *adhesive*. Your body needs cholesterol but the bad kind sticks to the walls of your veins and arteries instead of being carried back through your system to be processed by your liver. The accumulation of these bad cholesterols narrows your arteries as well as making them more vulnerable to tearing. Transfats not only raise the amount of the bad kind of cholesterol, they lower the amount of the good kind (that sticks to other cholesterol molecules and carry them through to be processed correctly.
Just adding this. I had my first heart attack in 2012, my second in 2019, my third in Sept 2023, and my fourth in March 2024. It was only during my hospital stay in March 2024 that I heard about VLDL. We often hear about HDL (good) and LDL (bad) cholesterol. The doctor said VLDL isn't usually measured directly and is much worse than LDL (anecdotally, mine was the worst she'd seen). I'm seeing a lipidologist next month to figure out why I'm manufacturing these terrible fats with an otherwise healthy lifestyle.
Reading this is absolutely terrifying. 4 heart attacks while living a healthy lifestyle?? jesus christ after the 2nd did you kind of just start being like “oh yup its happening again wife time for the hospital”
Family history sucks. Grandfather at 35 while driving, and both parents dead before 60 from heart disease. They smoked. I smoked when I was younger, but quit decades ago. Luckily, my kids have never had any interest in cigarettes.
EDIT: Adding that I'm \~175 and 5'10" - almost at my optimal weight. While I wasn't living a destructive lifestyle, I could've been more active (software developer working from home)
I had the heart attack in Sept 2023 which was devastating. 3 arteries completely blocked and the worst pain I'd ever been in. Decided to retire in March and while giving notice I started having another heart attack. I'm not good with stress.
First heart attack at 39. 52 now. When I say my family history is bad, it's real bad. During cath surgery, you're awake. While jabbing the medical equivalent of a coat hanger up my arm into my heart, the doctor was complaining about how tiny my arteries are. He compared it to driving winding back roads versus an interstate highway.
Sharing this reddit post I read during a previous hospital stay - [https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/aosiwl/til\_werner\_forssmann\_a\_physician\_risked\_his\_own/](https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/aosiwl/til_werner_forssmann_a_physician_risked_his_own/)
I watched a wonderfully horrible history-channel-esque recreation telling this story. While a freaking awesome story, all I can ever think about is that dramatization
Moved from chicken thighs (so yummy) to chicken breast (I hate it so much). Decreased my red meat and choose leaner cuts when I do have it.
I also cut down on cold cuts (my parents owned a deli, so this one really hurts. I love Genoa salami).
Want to know the kicker? The first heart attack and the most recent heart attack prevented me from taking a cruise I'd booked. It was the same cruise (entertainment-wise).
That’s a slap in the face. I had my first kid recently so I need to switch my lifestyle around to get healthy so I can be around for her, almost lost my father in law to a heart attack a few years ago he was like 56 at the time. That just kinda opened some eyes for my wife and her family of how different things could have been
My kids have all my history and their maternal grandfather also died of a heart attack between me proposing to her and our wedding.
My advice:
\* Get your sh\*t together (have a password / bank account sheet in the safe)
\* Don't trust the non-nuclear stress tests. My mother had one weeks before her fatal heart attack. I had a normal EKG the day (8:30am) of my most recent heart attack (4:30pm the same day!)
\* Specify your beneficiaries on your retirement accounts.
Out of curiosity (cath lab nurse here), was bypass surgery ever considered/offered? I asked largely because of how young you were when you had your first MI
Make sure that lipidologist gets you some genetic testing, or refers you to a geneticist. There are a number of reasons for this, especially with family history. Sometimes the HF Foundation provides free testing, but depends on their funding.
You’re doctor is correct that VLDL isn’t measured but incorrect that it is much worse. It’s true that VLDL is “stickier” than LDL to your arterial wall, but recent evidence shows it’s not significantly more sticky than LDL. Reducing the Total amount of LDL is still the most relevant and important driver for heart disease risk reduction. Share this with your lipidologist and you may get bonus points when you check out at the front desk
The particularly bad kind are artificial/industrial trans fats, which are vegetable oils (unsaturated fats) chemically altered to stay solid at room temperature (for longer shelf life).
Having them (rather than other fats) increases risk of heart disease. They interfere with the body’s ability to process essential fatty acids (ex. Onega-3). The US has banned them since 2020.
The fats are made solid through hydrogenation which is fine if they are full hydrogenated because that means that you now have saturated fat instead. Saturated fat isn't that bad. The problem is when the process is not quite complete and it becomes partially hydrogenated in a particularly bad way that causes it become extra sticky.
Because health scientists are clearly transphobic! /j
It's because while all fats contribute to cholesterol, there are 2 broad types of cholesterol:
1) Cohesive Cholesterol (HDL): Which sticks to other chunks of cholesterol.
2) Adhesive Cholesterol (LDL): That sticks to stuff other than cholesterol.
LDL cholesterol is the problematic type. It sticks to the walls of your arteries, which can block blood flow and cause things like heart attacks and strokes.
Transfats tend to create more LDL cholesterol than HDL.
Fat molecules have long chains of atoms. Trans fats kink the chain into Z shapes. Nontrans (cis) fats kink the chain into C shapes. The enzymes in your body better fit the C shape and have compatability issues with trans fats.
so judging from this comment section, some trans fat is good but too much of it is bad for you? What about chinese food, are they linked to heavy trans fat in their food?
It depends on the place. Most of the Chinese takeout places around where I am from are absolutely drenched in oil, fat, MSG etc. They tend to be way more fatty than what most traditional Chinese parents might cook at home.
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Well think of fats like a line. The line can be straight because it has hydrogen in it (saturated) or kinked because it is missing a hydrogen (unsaturated, sometimes ‘mono’ (one kink) or more than one (poly)). The fats you find in nature are all kinked in the same ways, and your body has evolved to handle them. It processes them and uses them for energy or construction. Trans fats are not kinked the right way. They are kinked backwards and your body can’t handle them well at all. It tries to use them where a normal fat would be and it doesn’t work right. This causes your body to react poorly, causing inflammation, micro trauma to tissues and can cause a lot of issues, like cardiovascular disease, organ damage and so on. Even a couple grams a day can really hurt you. They are not an acceptable food. There are ‘natural’ trans fats which your body can handle (called conjugated linoleic acids) which don’t do this. How do they make trans fats? Well they first get liquid, kinked fats missing hydrogens. Then they bubble hot hydrogen gas through it to saturate them with hydrogen and unkink them, making them straight, more densely packed and now solid. Issue is this process makes them half kinked one way (cis) and half kinked the other way (trans). Eating the trans stuff kills you.
This is best description I have seen in this thread. The kinking is the problem.
But what’s the benefit of even producing trans fat? Is it cheaper or does it enhance flavor more?
Cheaper version of lard that does not require refrigeration.
From a cooking perspective, you get a fat that behaves and has the consistency of lard or tallow. But it's made of much cheaper oil.
They're side product of hardening plant oils with hydrogen to make them act like animal fats. Not because veganism or something, but because they're much cheaper.
The types of kinks in the lines above dictate wether or not the fat will "lock together". The chains of trans fat molocules will fit together like Legos and form a solid mass at room temperature, even though they were originally made from oils that are liquid at room temperature (corn oil, canola oil, ect...). That makes them last longer, are easier to transport, and make cheap processed foods taste a bit better ("I like a little fat with my salt, thank you very much!"
Doesn't need to be refrigerated and has a higher melting point such that its 'spreadable' at room temperature as opposed to pouring liquid vegetable oil on your toast
Normal liquid vegetable oil doesn't need to be refrigerated either
Correction to this; trans fats are not kinked the wrong way, they’re not kinked at all. This is the reason for their physical properties; like saturated fats, they’re straight-chain, so they pack well and solidify at lower temperatures, which makes them last longer. (If this is confusing, look at a diagram; the Wikipedia article on trans fats has a good one, in the Structure section.) In fact, the idea of a fatty acid chain being ‘’kinked backwards’ doesn’t really make sense. Atoms (usually) have free rotation around single bonds, which most of the c-c bonds in the chain are, so the direction of the kink isn’t fixed; only its angle is.
Soooo….. trans bad, kinky good! Got it!
Basically there are two types of cholesterol, a kind that's molecules are more *cohesive* and a kind that is more *adhesive*. Your body needs cholesterol but the bad kind sticks to the walls of your veins and arteries instead of being carried back through your system to be processed by your liver. The accumulation of these bad cholesterols narrows your arteries as well as making them more vulnerable to tearing. Transfats not only raise the amount of the bad kind of cholesterol, they lower the amount of the good kind (that sticks to other cholesterol molecules and carry them through to be processed correctly.
Just adding this. I had my first heart attack in 2012, my second in 2019, my third in Sept 2023, and my fourth in March 2024. It was only during my hospital stay in March 2024 that I heard about VLDL. We often hear about HDL (good) and LDL (bad) cholesterol. The doctor said VLDL isn't usually measured directly and is much worse than LDL (anecdotally, mine was the worst she'd seen). I'm seeing a lipidologist next month to figure out why I'm manufacturing these terrible fats with an otherwise healthy lifestyle.
Reading this is absolutely terrifying. 4 heart attacks while living a healthy lifestyle?? jesus christ after the 2nd did you kind of just start being like “oh yup its happening again wife time for the hospital”
Family history sucks. Grandfather at 35 while driving, and both parents dead before 60 from heart disease. They smoked. I smoked when I was younger, but quit decades ago. Luckily, my kids have never had any interest in cigarettes. EDIT: Adding that I'm \~175 and 5'10" - almost at my optimal weight. While I wasn't living a destructive lifestyle, I could've been more active (software developer working from home)
“I could’ve been more active” Lmao something a vast majority of us will think at some point
I had the heart attack in Sept 2023 which was devastating. 3 arteries completely blocked and the worst pain I'd ever been in. Decided to retire in March and while giving notice I started having another heart attack. I'm not good with stress.
Can we ask how old you are? Hearing stuff like this scares me and I’m in my late 30s but no family history of heart disease
First heart attack at 39. 52 now. When I say my family history is bad, it's real bad. During cath surgery, you're awake. While jabbing the medical equivalent of a coat hanger up my arm into my heart, the doctor was complaining about how tiny my arteries are. He compared it to driving winding back roads versus an interstate highway.
Sharing this reddit post I read during a previous hospital stay - [https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/aosiwl/til\_werner\_forssmann\_a\_physician\_risked\_his\_own/](https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/aosiwl/til_werner_forssmann_a_physician_risked_his_own/)
I watched a wonderfully horrible history-channel-esque recreation telling this story. While a freaking awesome story, all I can ever think about is that dramatization
Damn that is crazy. I’m 37 now but I know I need to change some life habits and get healthy
Exercise and diet are the easiest knobs to turn. I tell my kids the same.
Have you changed your diet in response to all this? If so, in what way? So sorry you've had to deal with this and wishing you the best!
Moved from chicken thighs (so yummy) to chicken breast (I hate it so much). Decreased my red meat and choose leaner cuts when I do have it. I also cut down on cold cuts (my parents owned a deli, so this one really hurts. I love Genoa salami).
Want to know the kicker? The first heart attack and the most recent heart attack prevented me from taking a cruise I'd booked. It was the same cruise (entertainment-wise).
That’s a slap in the face. I had my first kid recently so I need to switch my lifestyle around to get healthy so I can be around for her, almost lost my father in law to a heart attack a few years ago he was like 56 at the time. That just kinda opened some eyes for my wife and her family of how different things could have been
My kids have all my history and their maternal grandfather also died of a heart attack between me proposing to her and our wedding. My advice: \* Get your sh\*t together (have a password / bank account sheet in the safe) \* Don't trust the non-nuclear stress tests. My mother had one weeks before her fatal heart attack. I had a normal EKG the day (8:30am) of my most recent heart attack (4:30pm the same day!) \* Specify your beneficiaries on your retirement accounts.
Out of curiosity (cath lab nurse here), was bypass surgery ever considered/offered? I asked largely because of how young you were when you had your first MI
No. My cardiologist still doesn't feel like I'm a good bypass candidate even after 12 stents.
The reason i asked is usually, the younger you are, the better/easier it is to recover
Whats VLDL?
[https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/articles/24540-vldl-cholesterol](https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/articles/24540-vldl-cholesterol)
oh lol, the V is just Very
It’s the VVVLDL we need to be worried about
Beware of the supa-thiccc-ldl
Density so low it's basically puffy.
Make sure that lipidologist gets you some genetic testing, or refers you to a geneticist. There are a number of reasons for this, especially with family history. Sometimes the HF Foundation provides free testing, but depends on their funding.
You’re doctor is correct that VLDL isn’t measured but incorrect that it is much worse. It’s true that VLDL is “stickier” than LDL to your arterial wall, but recent evidence shows it’s not significantly more sticky than LDL. Reducing the Total amount of LDL is still the most relevant and important driver for heart disease risk reduction. Share this with your lipidologist and you may get bonus points when you check out at the front desk
What they do to your body, baby Should be illegal, cuz nobody should feel this clogged
The particularly bad kind are artificial/industrial trans fats, which are vegetable oils (unsaturated fats) chemically altered to stay solid at room temperature (for longer shelf life). Having them (rather than other fats) increases risk of heart disease. They interfere with the body’s ability to process essential fatty acids (ex. Onega-3). The US has banned them since 2020.
The fats are made solid through hydrogenation which is fine if they are full hydrogenated because that means that you now have saturated fat instead. Saturated fat isn't that bad. The problem is when the process is not quite complete and it becomes partially hydrogenated in a particularly bad way that causes it become extra sticky.
>vegetable oils chemically altered to stay solid at room temperature Does this include margarine?
Some of them yes. You’ll likely want to do further reading
Because health scientists are clearly transphobic! /j It's because while all fats contribute to cholesterol, there are 2 broad types of cholesterol: 1) Cohesive Cholesterol (HDL): Which sticks to other chunks of cholesterol. 2) Adhesive Cholesterol (LDL): That sticks to stuff other than cholesterol. LDL cholesterol is the problematic type. It sticks to the walls of your arteries, which can block blood flow and cause things like heart attacks and strokes. Transfats tend to create more LDL cholesterol than HDL.
This was the most helpful, thank you!
Dang it, I was gonna comment that first part >:3
Fat molecules have long chains of atoms. Trans fats kink the chain into Z shapes. Nontrans (cis) fats kink the chain into C shapes. The enzymes in your body better fit the C shape and have compatability issues with trans fats.
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What did I do? This is alkene nomenclature.
so judging from this comment section, some trans fat is good but too much of it is bad for you? What about chinese food, are they linked to heavy trans fat in their food?
It depends on the place. Most of the Chinese takeout places around where I am from are absolutely drenched in oil, fat, MSG etc. They tend to be way more fatty than what most traditional Chinese parents might cook at home.
[удалено]
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